I have been a HUGE supporter of LCD's. That's all I've ever owned. No matter what anyone said, I refused to believe Plasma was better than LCD. Yes, it had better blacks, but over all picture, I believed LCD's were the winner. I am a HUGE supporter of Sony. I still say they make the best LCD. I sold my 52" XBR5 which I thought I'd never do. My buddy who owns a Kuro said "Please just do some more research on Plasma's. I was convinced Plasma's gave me a headache, but decided for once to try them out. Thank God the new XBR8 was way overpriced, or I might of gotten it. I did my research. I brought in several blu Ray disks and watched them on the Panny 850. (I decided to wait another year before looking at the Kuro). And you know what? I was completely blown away. What did it for me was watching Madagascar Blu Ray at ABT Electronics. My jaw dropped. It was seriously 3d looking. I always said animation looks so much better on an LCD. Boy was I wrong. I was sold right then and there.

We can all argue till were blue in the face. It comes down to personal preference. Both TV's have their pro's and cons. I just wanted to share my story because I was such a LCD snob.

I don't know what's worse that you were a LCD snob or that you still list HDDVD in your sig.

The irony is that only in 2008 has LCD caught up to plasma in picture quality. :D

I think the biggest problem is that when people are deciding between LCD/Plasma that they have to do the obvious and compare by in store settings. Plasma doesn't really stand much of a chance when comparing in environments like BB. IMO if I were shopping for a 50" TV and I didn't know better there's no way I would consider a Pioneer over a Samsung or Sony LCD as in many cases they look much better in the stores. However, in environments like the Sony Store you'll find those LCDs don't look 1/2 as good as they do in BB. People don't realize that when you view in moderate lighting conditions that LCDs don't look nearly as good. When I first got into home theater and got my first digital display I didn't realize how awful the HLN617W handled dark scenes and had terrible black levels. Now I'm not saying that about todays LCDs, but what I am saying is that many of their flaws are hidden (black levels in a darkened room, flashlights, clouding, etc). To be fair, plasma has it's issues as well but they are much easier to spot in stores like BB up front though. :)

I don't know what's worse that you were a LCD snob or that you still list HDDVD in your sig.Hey now, putting down HD DVD is fighting words :)

The irony is that only in 2008 has LCD caught up to plasma in picture quality. :D
Really? If I'm using a 2008-model LCD to view a movie with dark scenes in a pitch dark room, as I like to do, will the LCD be able to reproduce black as actually black (not a glowing dark grey) while showing every single possible bit of shadow detail?

i'd get a plasma but after having a hd projector and 108" screem for the last 4 years, any flat panel is just too da*n small.

and i cant afford the pan. 103" or 150" (if it was even on the market yet) models.

The irony is that only in 2008 has LCD caught up to plasma in picture quality.LCD has not caught up to Plasma picture quality. I honestly don't think LCD technology will ever be able to reproduce that deep clear image that i see on the good plasmas. Even the best most current LCDs still look too one-dimensional by comparison.

Perhaps I made my decision for the wrong reasons. I went LCD because of weight and power consumption.

I have the Motion 52 wall mount that is rated up to about a hundred pounds. I got 52"Samsung that was nearly 30 pounds lighter than a similar plasma.That will be less work for the motorized mount.And for what utilities cost in California any energy savings is welcome.

As far as PQ goes I use video essentials for calibration.No matter what the imperfections of any of my TVs once calibrated they look darn good.

I sure do like that Kuro though. Just a little to pricey:( for me.

The irony is that only in 2008 has LCD caught up to plasma in picture quality. :D

Honest question. In what way do you feel that LCD has caught up to plasma? Also, which panels are you comparing?

Perhaps I made my decision for the wrong reasons. I went LCD because of weight and power consumption.

I have the Motion 52 wall mount that is rated up to about a hundred pounds. I got 52"Samsung that was nearly 30 pounds lighter than a similar plasma.That will be less work for the motorized mount.And for what utilities cost in California any energy savings is welcome.

As far as PQ goes I use video essentials for calibration.No matter what the imperfections of any of my TVs once calibrated they look darn good.

I sure do like that Kuro though. Just a little to pricey:( for me.

I am a bit boggled by this post.

Weight was a consideration, yet you have a motorized mount, which is more than capable of manuevering the plasma.

PC was a consideration, when in the grand scheme of things, is something like 1-3 bucks more a month.

PC was a consideration, yet you purchased a motorized mount. Lol?

i'd get a plasma but after having a hd projector and 108" screem for the last 4 years, any flat panel is just too da*n small.

and i cant afford the pan. 103" or 150" (if it was even on the market yet) models.

I hope to have a dedicated HT sometime in the distant future. You are 100% correct, nothing compares to the cinematic experience that a front projector provides.

What is funny, is that this raises a good point. The biggest praise that LCD owners give, is how nice and bright their displays are, hence what they hate most about plasmas. Does this mean that they hate going to the movies, and would never have a dedicated HT, because it is just too darn dim? Front projectors are much "dimmer" than plasmas. Yet, they look extremely natural, and provide some of the best PQ out there. This, or course is entirely contingent on the quality of the projector/ lens, chipset.

I have been a HUGE supporter of LCD's. That's all I've ever owned. No matter what anyone said, I refused to believe Plasma was better than LCD. Yes, it had better blacks, but over all picture, I believed LCD's were the winner. I am a HUGE supporter of Sony. I still say they make the best LCD. I sold my 52" XBR5 which I thought I'd never do. My buddy who owns a Kuro said "Please just do some more research on Plasma's. I was convinced Plasma's gave me a headache, but decided for once to try them out. Thank God the new XBR8 was way overpriced, or I might of gotten it. I did my research. I brought in several blu Ray disks and watched them on the Panny 850. (I decided to wait another year before looking at the Kuro). And you know what? I was completely blown away. What did it for me was watching Madagascar Blu Ray at ABT Electronics. My jaw dropped. It was seriously 3d looking. I always said animation looks so much better on an LCD. Boy was I wrong. I was sold right then and there.

We can all argue till were blue in the face. It comes down to personal preference. Both TV's have their pro's and cons. I just wanted to share my story because I was such a LCD snob.

Guess I'll chime in too. With 14 HDTVs of all flavors we also discoverd plasma this last year.

The highest priced LCDs just do not work for us. We have been very fortunate to have side by side comparisons in our house - one lasting 3 weeks.

The 800U works great for us and if the economy does not completely crash and we can still buy groceries, we should be getting another 900U 950U or 1000U or 1050U when the budget allows. If it is not a Pana it would be a Pio.

If you ever have a chance to test "The Dark Knight" BluRay side by side in your house you will quickly see why so many complain about the lack of black detail and major motion artifacts on the IMAX production when viewing on a LCD. AFAIK no one has had that complaint while watching a Plasma.

This last Sunday's Dallas/Giants game was real. It is so nice to watch the plays and the ball with no motion artifacts, no macro blocking, with that full 3D look and feel. Throw in a good 5.1 (and/or 7.1 for the BluRay) Audyssey balanced HT, and it is much much better than being at the game. LCD can not do that, at least not in our eyes. And every seat in the house is perfect-which explains why I can not get rid of the neighbors!

If you ever have a chance to test "The Dark Knight" BluRay side by side in your house you will quickly see why so many complain about the lack of black detail and major motion artifacts on the IMAX production when viewing on a LCD. AFAIK no one has had that complaint while watching a Plasma.



I have a Samsung 650 that was calibrated by Jeff (UMR) from Accucal and I had a Elite 1150 before this display. I have to disagree with this statement. I own DK and I watched it on my Elite 05 BD player to my 650 and I have no issues with blacks when compared to my 1150. Yes it isn't as deep as the 9G elites but it is very comparable to my old 1150. Jeff agreed with this when he was finished calibrating.

I have seen a 60" inch Kuro and played around with it for quite some time more than once as my uncle owns it. I have a 40" inch Samsung 650. I must say that in the past LCD lagged far behind plasma and especially the Kuros that literally blew the competition away.

But the situation has changed now. The 650 has really caught up now and it has one heck of a beautiful 3D image. I've recently seen Kung Fu Panda and Cars on Blu-Ray and it certainly had the image quality to make one's jaw drop.

For 60" or that vicinity I still feel that Kuro is King. In the 40" vicinity the 650 is worth a very decent shout!! It's got really good blacks especially in a dark room. And the pop from the picture is more than the Kuro.

I watched kung fu panda on blu ray last night on my samsung 52850 and I have to say it was one of the most 3d like images I've ever seen on any hd tv. I've never seen a picture so sharp and clear. I read a lot of people say that LCD's are still one dimensional compared to a good plasma, need to sit down and see a good lcd in action. I think they would have admit that setting one up one right, are really comparable to a good plasma.

Really? If I'm using a 2008-model LCD to view a movie with dark scenes in a pitch dark room, as I like to do, will the LCD be able to reproduce black as actually black (not a glowing dark grey) while showing every single possible bit of shadow detail?

Yes, they do, the 2008 models like Z4100 or 650 have quite nice black levels in a dark room. I'm coming from an HD CRT, and these were the first LCD models I found to be acceptable (also the Samsung 81F).

A mid-range plasma like Panasonic 800U is better, but the difference is now subtle rather than obvious like it was a year or two ago.

LCD has not caught up to Plasma picture quality. I honestly don't think LCD technology will ever be able to reproduce that deep clear image that i see on the good plasmas. Even the best most current LCDs still look too one-dimensional by comparison.

Are you including the new LED LCDs in that statement? Or are you comparing $1500 LCDs to $3000 plasmas?

Honest question. In what way do you feel that LCD has caught up to plasma? Also, which panels are you comparing?

Comparing say a Samsung 650 or Sony Z4100 to a mid-range plasma like Panasonic 800U. The LCD has caught up. The plasma does some things better, the LCD some things better, overall it's now a wash. 2 years ago, plasma or even DLP blew away LCD.

Just watched some of Dark Knight Blu-Ray on the Samsung 650, it looks amazing. Dunno about artifacts, I have AMP off.

This is something that I've known for years. Both technologies are progressing and I'll admit that some high end lcd's look very good on showroom floors...but I have never seen one in a home setting that I would prefer to watch over even a mid range plasma. The "120hz lcd" thing may be a godsend to some people, but I would rather watch sports/fast action with the all too familar lcd blur than to have some weird looking processing effect on the screen. Plasma will likely be eclipsed by a new technology in the near future...but until that day comes, plasma is the only kind of flatpanel tv that I will spend money on.

Really? If I'm using a 2008-model LCD to view a movie with dark scenes in a pitch dark room, as I like to do, will the LCD be able to reproduce black as actually black (not a glowing dark grey) while showing every single possible bit of shadow detail?What display can do that other than maybe a Pioneer?

What display can do that other than maybe a Pioneer?


Um, the Panny can. Trust me. I started watching Blu Ray movies all over again. I had a Sony XBR5 (to me still one of the best LCD's to date) and It's like watching movies for the first time. Pop in Dave Mathews Live a RC. On my LCD, it was horrific. (But being a huge LCD fan, I convinced myself it was great). Read any review about the 52" XBR5, and most said how fantastic the black levels were. Let me tell you, that I popped it in my Panny and it was seriously night and day. I also thought the best pic I've ever seen on a TV was Kung Fu Panda on my LCD, until I watched it on my panny. Yes, the XBR5 was last years model, but still there is NOT a major difference (except the XBR8) in terms of upgrading and I can tell you it is still a HUGE difference.

Um, the Panny can. Trust me. I started watching Blu Ray movies all over again. I had a Sony XBR5 (to me still one of the best LCD's to date) and It's like watching movies for the first time. Pop in Dave Mathews Live a RC. On my LCD, it was horrific. (But being a huge LCD fan, I convinced myself it was great). Read any review about the 52" XBR5, and most said how fantastic the black levels were. Let me tell you, that I popped it in my Panny and it was seriously night and day. I also thought the best pic I've ever seen on a TV was Kung Fu Panda on my LCD, until I watched it on my panny. Yes, the XBR5 was last years model, but still there is NOT a major difference (except the XBR8) in terms of upgrading and I can tell you it is still a HUGE difference.

And the Panny is about $4000 grand less the the XBR8.

NEVER in a million years thought I'd say this but Plasma and/or LCD is what this forum is all about!

:cool:

I am a bit boggled by this post.

Weight was a consideration, yet you have a motorized mount, which is more than capable of manuevering the plasma.

PC was a consideration, when in the grand scheme of things, is something like 1-3 bucks more a month.

PC was a consideration, yet you purchased a motorized mount. Lol?

Why make the mount work harder than it needs to? Power consumption? So at as you say a 3 dollar savings is 36 dollars a year right. Where did you pull that figure? Did have a crystal ball to tell you my viewing habits? My TV is on a lot. Sometimes the whole weekend. And you don't use a motorized mount all the time.

I have no idea where you reside but trust me So Cal is very very expensive. "Mind the pennies and the dollars will take care of them selves."

In the end all that matters is I am happy with my setup and you are happy with yours.:D And that is how things work in my boggled mind.:eek:

PS there where other factors but there is no way I am opening that can of worms.LOL

Um, the Panny can. Trust me. I started watching Blu Ray movies all over again. I had a Sony XBR5 (to me still one of the best LCD's to date) and It's like watching movies for the first time. Pop in Dave Mathews Live a RC. On my LCD, it was horrific. (But being a huge LCD fan, I convinced myself it was great). Read any review about the 52" XBR5, and most said how fantastic the black levels were. Let me tell you, that I popped it in my Panny and it was seriously night and day. I also thought the best pic I've ever seen on a TV was Kung Fu Panda on my LCD, until I watched it on my panny. Yes, the XBR5 was last years model, but still there is NOT a major difference (except the XBR8) in terms of upgrading and I can tell you it is still a HUGE difference.

Yeah, when I said 2008 LCDs are a big improvement, i meant compared to TVs like the XBR5.

See CNET's review of 650 LCD.

After setup, we placed the LN52A650 in a comparison that included our reference sets--the Pioneer PDP-5080HD, the Sony KDS-55A3000, and the 120Hz Sony KDL-46XBR4--along with the Panasonic TH-46PX85U.

Black level: The Samsung LN52A650 reproduced one of the deepest shades of black we've seen from any LCD. It can't quite match the champ, Samsung's own LED-based LN-T4681F, but from what we remember, it's pretty dang close. The Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas got darker by a couple of hairs, although the Samsung solidly beat the two Sonys.

Um, the Panny can. Trust me. I started watching Blu Ray movies all over again. I had a Sony XBR5 (to me still one of the best LCD's to date) and It's like watching movies for the first time. Pop in Dave Mathews Live a RC. On my LCD, it was horrific. (But being a huge LCD fan, I convinced myself it was great). Read any review about the 52" XBR5, and most said how fantastic the black levels were. Let me tell you, that I popped it in my Panny and it was seriously night and day. I also thought the best pic I've ever seen on a TV was Kung Fu Panda on my LCD, until I watched it on my panny. Yes, the XBR5 was last years model, but still there is NOT a major difference (except the XBR8) in terms of upgrading and I can tell you it is still a HUGE difference.So all of a sudden Panny's can display true blacks eh? I think not. Maybe the problem is that you're comparing an older LCD model and possibly viewing the LCD at angles and then comparing it to a Panasonic Plasma 08 model. Maybe the LCD wasn't even optimized. All I know is that the only display that comes close to displaying a true black is a Pioneer Plasma. Read the great post above by VarmintCong.

Why make the mount work harder than it needs to? Power consumption? So at as you say a 3 dollar savings is 36 dollars a year right. Where did you pull that figure? Did have a crystal ball to tell you my viewing habits? My TV is on a lot. Sometimes the whole weekend. And you don't use a motorized mount all the time.

I have no idea where you reside but trust me So Cal is very very expensive. "Mind the pennies and the dollars will take care of them selves."

In the end all that matters is I am happy with my setup and you are happy with yours.:D And that is how things work in my boggled mind.:eek:

PS there where other factors but there is no way I am opening that can of worms.LOL

How do I know? Because I can guarantee you that not many have their TV's on more than we do in this house. The bedroom TV is on 24hours just about (I work normal hours, and sleep with the TV on, the wife works the graveyard shift at the Hospital and sleeps with the TV on as well :p), my sons TV gets a good 6 hours a day, the living room TV gets used atleast 2 hours a day, even more on the weekends, and I don't turn off my monitor, which coincidentally is a 46" Sony XBR4. So, yeah, just my experiences.

Also, I didn't say you had a boggled mind, but that mine was boggled. ;)

If you take the time and research the technology and the science (the way the human eye sees) behind both plasma and LCD it is evident that Plasma is the superior moving pictures display tech. Look for numbers on "motion resolution" for different displays for examples of this. Of course, this being the primary shortcoming of LCDs the manufacturers went further and developed enhancements to the technology like 120Hz to try and close the gap. Whenever I look at any of these sets in a store I can't help but notice at how different and fluid they look, but after a minute of watching you realize the difference is the un-naturaleness of the motion. I actually expect the actors on the screen to yell stop and start giggling at the unnatural and funny motion they are performing. It totally destroys the "feel" of whatever you're watching, especially movies. Well maybe for sports it is not bothersome, I wouldn't know. Point is I actually feel bad for all the people buying these sets and totally ruining their movie watching experiences without even knowing it, or even noticing.

For still images I've seen a lot of LCDs looking better than plasma (mostly samsungs and sonys), so whenever I feel the need to get a big "portrait picture frame" (you know the ones where you put in your pictures from the memory card of your digital camera and it cycles through them?) I might get an LCD display.

This of course doesn't mean that YOU have to like plasma better; go with whatever looks better to you with the type of content you usually watch.

regards

If you take the time and research the technology and the science (the way the human eye sees) behind both plasma and LCD it is evident that Plasma is the superior moving pictures display tech. Look for numbers on "motion resolution" for different displays for examples of this. Of course, this being the primary shortcoming of LCDs the manufacturers went further and developed enhancements to the technology like 120Hz to try and close the gap. Whenever I look at any of these sets in a store I can't help but notice at how different and fluid they look, but after a minute of watching you realize the difference is the un-naturaleness of the motion. I actually expect the actors on the screen to yell stop and start giggling at the unnatural and funny motion they are performing. It totally destroys the "feel" of whatever you're watching, especially movies. Well maybe for sports it is not bothersome, I wouldn't know. Point is I actually feel bad for all the people buying these sets and totally ruining their movie watching experiences without even knowing it, or even noticing.

For still images I've seen a lot of LCDs looking better than plasma (mostly samsungs and sonys), so whenever I feel the need to get a big "portrait picture frame" (you know the ones where you put in your pictures from the memory card of your digital camera and it cycles through them?) I might get an LCD display.

This of course doesn't mean that YOU have to like plasma better; go with whatever looks better to you with the type of content you usually watch.

regardsWhy would you feel bad for folks who own nice 120Hz LCD's and either like the look that AMP provides or do not notice? You should feel bad for people in need instead.

Maybe the problem is that you're comparing an older LCD model and possibly viewing the LCD at angles and then comparing it to a Panasonic Plasma 08 model.
The poster mentioned that he has the Sony XBR5 -- a fairly recent model LCD. And he isn't viewing it at an angle. He also mentions, in his own words, that the picture quality of the Panny plasma blows away the picture quality of the Sony LCD, which absolutely doesn't surprise me.

I'll take the lowest-end 2008-model 1080p Panasonic plasma over the highest-end 2008-model LCD any day of the week. :)

The poster mentioned that he has the Sony XBR5 -- a fairly recent model LCD. And he isn't viewing it at an angle. He also mentions, in his own words, that the picture quality of the Panny plasma blows away the picture quality of the Sony LCD, which absolutely doesn't surprise me.

I'll take the lowest-end 2008-model 1080p Panasonic plasma over the highest-end 2008-model LCD any day of the week. :)I won't bother to take your post seriously, lol!

Yeah, when I said 2008 LCDs are a big improvement, i meant compared to TVs like the XBR5.

See CNET's review of 650 LCD.

Problems arise with that though. Those blacks are not uniform, nor are they the same off-axis and there is typically some sort of flashlighting in them as well. They al;so have a tendency to rise when anything other than black is on the screen.
With the exception of the 950 and XBR8, '09 lcd's aren't much different than '08.
-jmo
...and I didn't even get into motion or sample and hold, neither of which are 'subtle'.


What issue specifically are you talking about in regards to black levels on the '09 Panny's?

I won't bother to take your post seriously, lol!
And I won't take anyone seriously who claims to truly and deeply care about picture/video/image quality while using an LCD. :)

If you take the time and research the technology and the science (the way the human eye sees) behind both plasma and LCD it is evident that Plasma is the superior moving pictures display tech. Look for numbers on "motion resolution" for different displays for examples of this. Of course, this being the primary shortcoming of LCDs the manufacturers went further and developed enhancements to the technology like 120Hz to try and close the gap. Whenever I look at any of these sets in a store I can't help but notice at how different and fluid they look, but after a minute of watching you realize the difference is the un-naturaleness of the motion. I actually expect the actors on the screen to yell stop and start giggling at the unnatural and funny motion they are performing. It totally destroys the "feel" of whatever you're watching, especially movies. Well maybe for sports it is not bothersome, I wouldn't know. Point is I actually feel bad for all the people buying these sets and totally ruining their movie watching experiences without even knowing it, or even noticing.


I don't like the soap opera look either, but it's a mistake to say it's unnatural. You're used to the jerky cadence of 24 fps film, that's why it looks strange to you. But it actually looks more like real life (minus artifacts, which are mostly gone on the newest sets anyway). So if people like their movies to look like real life, more power to them.

And unfortunately, high motion resolution on artificial tests doesn't translate to smoother motion on real content - the real world differences are quite subtle.

And I won't take anyone seriously who claims to truly and deeply care about picture/video/image quality while using an LCD. :)Got any more jokes for me bud? Keep them coming.

Problems arise with that though. Those blacks are not uniform, nor are they the same off-axis and there is typically some sort of flashlighting in them as well. They al;so have a tendency to rise when anything other than black is on the screen.
With the exception of the 950 and XBR8, '09 lcd's aren't much different than '08.
-jmo
...and I didn't even get into motion or sample and hold.

What issue specifically are you talking about in regards to black levels on the '09 Panny's?

those issues are almost non-existent on these LCDs once calibrated. Off axis drops if you're sitting way off to the side, but who does that? Just read a review by CNET or HDTVtest - they're very impressed by these new LCDs.

Not sure about your last question, don't think there's any issues with black level on Pannys, I'm just saying the newest LCDs actually have acceptable black levels in 2008.

In the same way some people worry about burn-in on plasma (a thing of the past) - peoples opinions on LCDs are also out of date.

CNET is not a place I go to for reviews personally.
My buddy who owns the sammy 450 plasma has a brother in-law that bought the 52a750and I set it up for him and was completely unimpressed other than clarity of still shots, but he loves it.
I suppose the black level question was towards HomieDaClown.
Choice is good. :)

CNET is not a place I go to for reviews personally.
My buddy who owns the sammy 450 plasma has a brother in-law that bought the 52a750and I set it up for him and was completely unimpressed other than clarity of still shots, but he loves it.
I suppose the black level question was towards HomieDaClown.
Choice is good. :)Are you saying that the 450 Sammy Plasma has a better picture than the a750? Just curious.

Just in my opinion, all facets considered, yes. (from a viewing distance where the resolution would make no difference though)
And especially so when things get moving.
But my buddies brother in-law wouldn't trade it for anything other than an Elite or 950.(his words many times...the 950 just recently)

Now the 950's might be the start of a whole new ball game for LCD's.

It always seems to be Plasma v LCD. But what about other hd technologies such as LED DLP? I just purchased an open box Samsung 56" 1080p LED DLP (HLT5687SAX) for only $800 and damn was it a steal.

benefits of led dlp
no bulb replacement, lasts the life of the tv set
lower power usage than LCD/Plasma
bigger screen for better bargain.
16 MICROseconds response time. Plasma is still best for no motion blur tho imo.
PQ most similar to movie-theaters as they use similar technology. Seriously when I'm watching a 1920x1080p movie I feel I'm in a mini movie theater.

the only real downside i see of LED DLP are its viewing angles, particularly vertical viewing angle. I can see why this tech isn't a seller as B&M stores rarely properly setup DLPs in their tv room.

If you want bigger screen size, definitely go for LED DLP. I think immersiveness will be the new trend as costs of tv's are dropping rapidly.

When it comes to comparatively priced tv's, LED DLP is the best bang for your buck.

And I won't take anyone seriously who claims to truly and deeply care about picture/video/image quality while using an LCD. :)


:) Touche!!!

I've seen and research EVERY Sammy to date. Same hold true for the Sony's. Trust me when I say this. LCD's can't compare to a plasma set. I was blind for years thinking the same way until I took one home and gave it a try. I will take a Panny 850U over the Samsung 950 or the XBR8. Over all picture quality cannot compare to a plasma.

It always seems to be Plasma v LCD. But what about other hd technologies such as LED DLP? I just purchased an open box Samsung 56" 1080p LED DLP (HLT5687SAX) for only $800 and damn was it a steal.

benefits of led dlp
no bulb replacement, lasts the life of the tv set
lower power usage than LCD/Plasma
bigger screen for better bargain.
16 MICROseconds response time. Plasma is still best for no motion blur tho imo.
PQ most similar to movie-theaters as they use similar technology. Seriously when I'm watching a 1920x1080p movie I feel I'm in a mini movie theater.

the only real downside i see of LED DLP are its viewing angles, particularly vertical viewing angle. I can see why this tech isn't a seller as B&M stores rarely properly setup DLPs in their tv room.

If you want bigger screen size, definitely go for LED DLP. I think immersiveness will be the new trend as costs of tv's are dropping rapidly.

When it comes to comparatively priced tv's, LED DLP is the best bang for your buck.

Poor off axis viewing (I can't stand any drop off at all) was a nuicanse, but the deal breaker was my perception of the Silk screen effect that I easily observed on all DLP sets, so I couldn't get one. But you are correct, they are a great value for what you get, especially the LED models.

Yeah, when I said 2008 LCDs are a big improvement, i meant compared to TVs like the XBR5.

See CNET's review of 650 LCD.

Sorry to say, the 650 is not a major improvement over the XBR5. I'm not just talkikng about black levels. I'm talking about overall picture quality. If you want to talk about reviews, There are some reviews that say the Panny is just a tad under the Kuro Elite.

the purpose of this thread wasn't to start arguments. It was just giving my perspective of both technologies especially since I was so biased towards LCD's. Guys ask all the time which is better. I still own a Sammy LCD in my bedroom. I love the picture but it sure isn't a plasma.

DLPs are kind of tough to audition, they're usually set on the floor with crappy feeds in a bright room, but I'm sure they look great at home in a darkish room.

Sorry to say, the 650 is not a major improvement over the XBR5. I'm not just talkikng about black levels. I'm talking about overall picture quality. If you want to talk about reviews, There are some reviews that say the Panny is just a tad under the Kuro Elite.


You love plasma, we got it, thanks.

Sorry to say, the 650 is not a major improvement over the XBR5. I'm not just talkikng about black levels. I'm talking about overall picture quality. If you want to talk about reviews, There are some reviews that say the Panny is just a tad under the Kuro Elite.

the purpose of this thread wasn't to start arguments. It was just giving my perspective of both technologies especially since I was so biased towards LCD's. Guys ask all the time which is better. I still own a Sammy LCD in my bedroom. I love the picture but it sure isn't a plasma.

I would agree with that one.

The 650 is a small improvement over the XBR5.

The 950 and XBR8's, Well thats another story.

You love plasma, we got it, thanks.

As the joker would say "Why so serious"??????

I would agree with that one.

The 650 is a small improvement over the XBR5.

The 950 and XBR8's, Well thats another story.

The XBR5 was a near perfect LCD except for mediocre black levels and a major gaming blur problem. The 650 has better blacks and no gaming blur, and cost $1000 less. Technology moves forward.

i did like the glass design on the XBRs though.

There is plenty of blur if your eyes are susceptible to sample and hold, more than plenty.
Like RBE with DLP's, depends on the individuals vision process.

There is plenty of blur if your eyes are susceptible to sample and hold, more than plenty.
Like RBE with DLP's, depends on the individuals vision process.

I see blur on some sources, but I see the same type of blur on Panasonic plasmas. I didn't see it at all on my HD CRT. Other than the CRTs, I see the least blur is on the expensive Pioneers.

I don't see blur on 24p Blu-Rays on the LCD, most of them anyway. And the few DVDs I've tried have been fairly blur-free as well. Seems like 60 Hz sources have the problem. Watching something like The Office in HD is a blur fest with AMP off.

There is plenty of blur if your eyes are susceptible to sample and hold, more than plenty.
Like RBE with DLP's, depends on the individuals vision process.

I see blur on some sources, but I see the same type of blur on Panasonic plasmas. I didn't see it at all on my HD CRT. Other than the CRTs, I see the least blur is on the expensive Pioneers.

I don't see blur on 24p Blu-Rays on the LCD, most of them anyway. And the few DVDs I've tried have been fairly blur-free as well. Seems like 60 Hz sources have the problem.

The gaming problem on the XBR5 is trails i think, not motion blur. Gamers seem to hate that TV.

Fanaticalism,

I thought I watched a lot of TV. But you sir are a wild man!:eek:

I guess no matter what the issue people seem to pick sides and fight to the death:mad: LOL

This thread started with one mans change of preference and pow world war III.

Do you think if I spend 50,000 on a new system I can apply for some GOVT bail out money to help pay for it?;)

XBR5, XBR8, 650, 750, 950 etc....

There isn't a year that goes by when Samsung or Sony launches their "Plasma Killer"! Only to have Pioneer and Panasonic set them straight. They continue to set the bar and LCD continually plays catch-up.

If you want to talk about reviews, There are some reviews that say the Panny is just a tad under the Kuro Elite.



The Pannys are overrated, I'd take a Samsung 650 LCD and up over a Panasonic Plasma, that includes the 800/850U. They don't compare to any Kuro yet alone an elite.

The Pannys are overrated, I'd take a Samsung 650 LCD and up over a Panasonic Plasma, that includes the 800/850U. They don't compare to any Kuro yet alone an elite.

holy moly.
What blasphemy.

I agree the Pannys are not as good as the Kuros, but I would definitly take an 800/850u over a samsung 650. no question.

Now if we were talking the 950 or XBR8, I might have to think a little.

But I would bet in the end, I would end up with the panny.


A Quality, natural, eye pleasing image just means too much to me.

holy moly.
What blasphemy.

I agree the Pannys are not as good as the Kuros, but I would definitly take an 800/850u over a samsung 650. no question.

Now if we were talking the 950 or XBR8, I might have to think a little.

But I would bet in the end, I would end up with the panny.


A Quality, natural, eye pleasing image just means too much to me.I'd take a Westinghouse over a Panny. Blasphemy!!!

The Pannys are overrated, I'd take a Samsung 650 LCD and up over a Panasonic Plasma, that includes the 800/850U. They don't compare to any Kuro yet alone an elite.

Yeah, I agree. I was really hoping the Panasonics would be reasonably priced Pioneers, but I found them pretty disappointing, and went with an LCD instead. My first choice would have been a Pioneer, but they're just too expensive.

Interesting figures:

Worldwide LCD TV shipments were up 6% year-over-year, with 53 million total units.

worldwide plasma TV shipments were up 37% year-over-year with 3.8 million units.

So plasma is definitely gaining market share, especially in the large sizes, since most LCD shipments are 32" or less.

Each technology has its pros and cons as well as its supporters and detractors. I made my choice based on my individual needs. Of course there is always second guessing and buyers remorse. Made me start wondering what the world wide sales of plasma vs. LCD's are for 2008, what the trends are and what the projections are for the future.

"LCD outsells plasma 8-to-1 in Q1 2008"

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/22/lcd-outsells-plasma-8-to-1-in-q1-2008/

Yet, here is another report,

"Why Are Plasma Sales Booming At The Expense Of LCD?"

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Plasma/U5P8P6L6

Even those reporting the data have opposite information.


'

holy moly.
What blasphemy.

I agree the Pannys are not as good as the Kuros, but I would definitly take an 800/850u over a samsung 650. no question.

Now if we were talking the 950 or XBR8, I might have to think a little.

But I would bet in the end, I would end up with the panny.


A Quality, natural, eye pleasing image just means too much to me.

I've gotta disagree. The 650 equals the Panasonic in blacks, has no ABL, no dithering and comparable color performance. Viewing angles for an LCD are good. You can argue the motion card but the Panasonics have a lot of green fringing and the 800U can't do 24p without flickering like crazy. They also have very poor daytime performance and can't keep their blacks. This all coming from a previous owner (85U).

Sorry to say, the 650 is not a major improvement over the XBR5. I'm not just talkikng about black levels. I'm talking about overall picture quality. If you want to talk about reviews, There are some reviews that say the Panny is just a tad under the Kuro Elite.

the purpose of this thread wasn't to start arguments. It was just giving my perspective of both technologies especially since I was so biased towards LCD's. Guys ask all the time which is better. I still own a Sammy LCD in my bedroom. I love the picture but it sure isn't a plasma.

I agree, and disagree regarding the upgrade comment. As an owner of both the 650, and the XBR4, I can say that the Samsungs are much better with color accuracy, and frame interpolation. The Sony smears really, really badly. The 650, while not as natural looking, doesn't smear, and seems to have resolved a good amount of the TBE, and ghosting. Artifacts are still a problem though.

There is more, but I will respond to it in my response to varmint.

The XBR5 was a near perfect LCD except for mediocre black levels and a major gaming blur problem. The 650 has better blacks and no gaming blur, and cost $1000 less. Technology moves forward.

i did like the glass design on the XBRs though.

The 650 has loads of blur when gaming, and the black levels are comparable post calibration. I have the Sony set to BL 0, with very good gamma. The Sammy is set to BL 3, again, with very good gamma. I will say that I was lucky with the Sony, as it has near perfect screen uniformity with the calibrated settings. Obviously, if I jack the settings to where most like with their LCDs, the flashlighting is pretty obvious, but the clouding isn't too bad.

The Samsung on the other hand, is absolutely putrid when it comes to uniformity.

I see blur on some sources, but I see the same type of blur on Panasonic plasmas. I didn't see it at all on my HD CRT. Other than the CRTs, I see the least blur is on the expensive Pioneers.

I don't see blur on 24p Blu-Rays on the LCD, most of them anyway. And the few DVDs I've tried have been fairly blur-free as well. Seems like 60 Hz sources have the problem. Watching something like The Office in HD is a blur fest with AMP off.

I agree that the blur isn't too bad with BD content. It only shows with specific content. DVDs on the other hand, can get messy. I can't say that the Pannys blur like my LCD's, as with all of the times that have seen them, they have been better. Are they better than the Pios? No.

I see blur on some sources, but I see the same type of blur on Panasonic plasmas. I didn't see it at all on my HD CRT. Other than the CRTs, I see the least blur is on the expensive Pioneers.

I don't see blur on 24p Blu-Rays on the LCD, most of them anyway. And the few DVDs I've tried have been fairly blur-free as well. Seems like 60 Hz sources have the problem.

The gaming problem on the XBR5 is trails i think, not motion blur. Gamers seem to hate that TV.

The Sony smears. I hate it. But the Samsung has TBE. You see it most with crosshairs.

Fanaticalism,

I thought I watched a lot of TV. But you sir are a wild man!:eek:

I guess no matter what the issue people seem to pick sides and fight to the death:mad: LOL

This thread started with one mans change of preference and pow world war III.

Do you think if I spend 50,000 on a new system I can apply for some GOVT bail out money to help pay for it?;)

I have been a HT enthusiasts since I was a child. I had my first surround setup when LD was introduced. I had a NHT setup, large Toshiba Tube, and crappy Pioneer AV system. It was a Sony LD that was pretty pricey. Running around $1200. :p

The Pannys are overrated, I'd take a Samsung 650 LCD and up over a Panasonic Plasma, that includes the 800/850U. They don't compare to any Kuro yet alone an elite.

My biggest gripe is the screen uniformity. I am VERY sensitive to it. Of course, it all depends on the intended use of your display. My LCD's were a must, and I feel they are very nice displays

It doesn't seem you are considering any factors with that statement, in which case I would have to disagree. LCD's just don't due very well in a light controlled enviornment, where their flaws become more prevelant. In a bright enviornment, they are beautiful.

Each technology has its pros and cons as well as its supporters and detractors. I made my choice based on my individual needs. Of course there is always second guessing and buyers remorse. Made me start wondering what the world wide sales of plasma vs. LCD's are for 2008, what the trends are and what the projections are for the future.

"LCD outsells plasma 8-to-1 in Q1 2008"

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/22/lcd-outsells-plasma-8-to-1-in-q1-2008/

Yet, here is another report,

"Why Are Plasma Sales Booming At The Expense Of LCD?"

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Plasma/U5P8P6L6

Even those reporting the data have opposite information.


'

It's not really contradictory - LCD is exploding in the small TV/monitor area, while plasma is gaining market share in the large TV area. If you take overall LCD sales (which includes 19" LCDs), it's got huge market share, but take say 50" TV range, and plasma has 28% market share, up 3% from last year.

It's not really contradictory - LCD is exploding in the small TV/monitor area, while plasma is gaining market share in the large TV area. If you take overall LCD sales (which includes 19" LCDs), it's got huge market share, but take say 50" TV range, and plasma has 28% market share, up 3% from last year.

That's really good to see.

The XBR5 was a near perfect LCD except for mediocre black levels and a major gaming blur problem. The 650 has better blacks and no gaming blur, and cost $1000 less. Technology moves forward.

i did like the glass design on the XBRs though.


I owned the XBR5 and I can honestly say I NEVER EVER once saw blur during gaming and I'm a HUGE gamer. The reviews on the black levels were VERY VERY good. I still have stacks of magazines sitting right next to me stating that. As good as the 650? Probably not, 650 is a newer TV. But again, not a HUGE vast improvement over the XBR5. Hey, I could of bought any TV I wanted. I hated plasma's so I was going to get another LCD this year. I looked and researched ALL high end TV's. I just don't walk in a store and say "that one looks better". I bring in Blu Ray movies, I go to several stores, and I research TV's on here. Why not the Kuro? Well, I will buy the new 10G next year. I was just stunned how good Plasma's looked. My buddy who owns a Kuro said "just wait to you see it at home". I guess it comes down to preference. For now, I will take a Panny plasma over any TV on the market except the Kuro. The first time I saw the XBR8 I freaked out. But after seeing it 4 or 5 times now, I'm not impressed especially for the $$$. Pound for Pound, best bang for you $ is the Panny. And being a Sammy owner, I am NOT impressed with their TV's.

And I do NOT want to hear the argument about how Plasma's looked during the day time. My TV is just as bright as my XBR5 if not brighter! . I never thought I'd say that about a Plasma. That myth is getting old!

We all can argue till we are blue in the face. I respect everyone's opinon. If someone likes LCD over plasma so be it. Same holds true the other way around. We should all be happy we have GREAT TV's to watch.

Peace,

CW

holy moly.
What blasphemy.

I agree the Pannys are not as good as the Kuros, but I would definitly take an 800/850u over a samsung 650. no question.

Now if we were talking the 950 or XBR8, I might have to think a little.

But I would bet in the end, I would end up with the panny.


A Quality, natural, eye pleasing image just means too much to me.

Completely agree. Trust I was going to get another LCD until I saw the Panny! I was BLOWN AWAY

I agree that the blur isn't too bad with BD content. It only shows with specific content. DVDs on the other hand, can get messy. I can't say that the Pannys blur like my LCD's, as with all of the times that have seen them, they have been better. Are they better than the Pios? No.



For your eyes' vision process.
For mine, it is a blurry mess, not an overstatement, with any movement.

I think the problem for many is we don't get to see most TVs at their best.

I'm not the type to test drive a TV I don't plan to keep, I think that's unethical - but it means it's hard to test these TVs. I don't want to bring DVDs & Blu-Rays to Tweeter and waste some salesman's time for 2 hours, knowing I'll order from Amazon.

I really wanted a reason to buy the 800U, but I couldn't get it to look as good as the 650 in store, even watching a Blu-Ray in THX mode. And sports broadcasts looked no better in terms of blur. I'd love to see one at home, but nobody I know has one.

those issues are almost non-existent on these LCDs once calibrated. Off axis drops if you're sitting way off to the side, but who does that? Just read a review by CNET or HDTVtest - they're very impressed by these new LCDs.

Not sure about your last question, don't think there's any issues with black level on Pannys, I'm just saying the newest LCDs actually have acceptable black levels in 2008.

In the same way some people worry about burn-in on plasma (a thing of the past) - peoples opinions on LCDs are also out of date.

I just read this again and I have to say I agree. LCD's are getting a lot better. Same holds true about plasmas not being bright. Jesus my TV seems just as bright as my LCD. It's crazy!

I have had the pleasure of seeing quite a few displays in my home and friends and family homes, but that has nothing to do with my point on individuals' vision process.
Sample and hold is very real and very aweful for those who suffer....has nothing to do with settings or motion enhancers.(just like RBE and DLP)

I'd like to chime in about POP that displays produce. My experience is that I own a 70hdfh96 dila jvc rear projection, 46 inch samsung 4681f led backlight tv as my of monitor and a 60 pioneer 141 sig kuro display. All have their good and bad points. The jvc even though it had the worst blacks produced the best POP. I though the pioneer would roduce the best pop because it has the best contrast ratio. The TVs that are the brightest produce the best pop 3d look. The jvc was ultra bright well over 100ftlbs. The pioneer measured about 46 isf calibrated. But in the end the pioneer overalll picture is the best. It's so clear and smooth and detailed. Canter wait to get an 80 inch plasma.

I don't want to bring DVDs & Blu-Rays to Tweeter and waste some salesman's time for 2 hours, knowing I'll order from Amazon.


I don't want to either...especially since there are no salesmen, the stores are all closed...and that creepy guy who is showing me the products was just featured on Americas Most Wanted. :D:eek:

I think the problem for many is we don't get to see most TVs at their best.

I'm not the type to test drive a TV I don't plan to keep, I think that's unethical - but it means it's hard to test these TVs. I don't want to bring DVDs & Blu-Rays to Tweeter and waste some salesman's time for 2 hours, knowing I'll order from Amazon.

I really wanted a reason to buy the 800U, but I couldn't get it to look as good as the 650 in store, even watching a Blu-Ray in THX mode. And sports broadcasts looked no better in terms of blur. I'd love to see one at home, but nobody I know has one.

Unethical? Your meaning to tell me that shopping and comparing TV's in a store in unethical? Do you feel the same way about cars? That is absolutely ridiculous. And Trust me, the Blacks on the Panny are better than the 650. I've seen both TV's in homes as well as stores. Since people tend to see different things when it comes to TV's, I would NEVER EVER buy one until I've fully tested it in a local store (which BTW is where I bought mine. ABT Electronics. Amazon can't come close to their pricing or CS)

Yea, you gotta test it out before you take it home. I did and I married her.

Yea, you gotta test it out before you take it home. I did and I married her.


Unfortunately I didn't. And I'm divorced. Live and learn.

Unethical? Your meaning to tell me that shopping and comparing TV's in a store in unethical? Do you feel the same way about cars? That is absolutely ridiculous. And Trust me, the Blacks on the Panny are better than the 650. I've seen both TV's in homes as well as stores. Since people tend to see different things when it comes to TV's, I would NEVER EVER buy one until I've fully tested it in a local store (which BTW is where I bought mine. ABT Electronics. Amazon can't come close to their pricing or CS)

If you bought it where you tested it, and didn't buy TVs to take home with plans to return one, there is nothing unethical about that.

I agree with VarmintCong that it is unethical to waste a store's time and money when you have absolutely no plans to buy from them.

Unethical? Your meaning to tell me that shopping and comparing TV's in a store in unethical? Do you feel the same way about cars? That is absolutely ridiculous. And Trust me, the Blacks on the Panny are better than the 650. I've seen both TV's in homes as well as stores. Since people tend to see different things when it comes to TV's, I would NEVER EVER buy one until I've fully tested it in a local store (which BTW is where I bought mine. ABT Electronics. Amazon can't come close to their pricing or CS)

What I'm referring to is, buying a plasma and taking it home for a few weeks to try, knowing you're gonna return it is unethical. Some people on this forum do that, but I'm not going to. As for in-store testing, I'd only take up a lot of a salesman's time if I will consider buying from them. And I'd never buy from Best Buy or Tweeter - except maybe on Black Friday.

What I'm referring to is, buying a plasma and taking it home for a few weeks to try, knowing you're gonna return it is unethical. Some people on this forum do that, but I'm not going to. As for in-store testing, I'd only take up a lot of a salesman's time if I will consider buying from them. And I'd never buy from Best Buy or Tweeter - except maybe on Black Friday.

There is nothing unethical about trying out a set at home.
take it home, test it out, if you don't like it return it.

the worse thing you can do is to try it out in the store.

I don't think your gonna break BB's bank doing that.

What I'm referring to is, buying a plasma and taking it home for a few weeks to try, knowing you're gonna return it is unethical. Some people on this forum do that, but I'm not going to. As for in-store testing, I'd only take up a lot of a salesman's time if I will consider buying from them. And I'd never buy from Best Buy or Tweeter - except maybe on Black Friday.

Oh. In that case, I totally agree. I don't even want to waste my own time buying a TV then returning it. But, There is nothing wrong with looking at TV's from various stores. Most of the time, I tell the sales guy I dont need their help. I just ask for a remote and play with the TV all by myself. :)

If you bought it where you tested it, and didn't buy TVs to take home with plans to return one, there is nothing unethical about that.

I agree with VarmintCong that it is unethical to waste a store's time and money when you have absolutely no plans to buy from them.

Again, how are you wasting there time? It's their job. Most of the time, the sales guys at BB are just sitting around doing NOTHING in the first place. You have to beg them to help you. The main reason I won't buy from a Best Buy is because they have NO clue what they are talking about and their prices suck. It's the truth. I spend enough money at that store to justify looking at their TV's. Same holds true about Tweeter.

So, when you buy cars, you don't go to different dealerships to see how has the best price/service? Come on now guys.

Oh. In that case, I totally agree. I don't even want to waste my own time buying a TV then returning it. But, There is nothing wrong with looking at TV's from various stores. Most of the time, I tell the sales guy I dont need their help. I just ask for a remote and play with the TV all by myself. :)

I do the same, though it's so hard to find a remote on Best Buy, much less a TV showing something worth watching, like a Blu-Ray. especially plasma, they never seem to have anything decent playing on them.

There is nothing unethical about trying out a set at home.
take it home, test it out, if you don't like it return it.

Yes, fine as long as you don't know going in that you're most likely gonna return it. Some do that on here and post about it. I don't know if I want this tv so I'll buy it and try it. That's wrong.

So, when you buy cars, you don't go to different dealerships to see how has the best price/service? Come on now guys.

It's different - you know if you like the car/service you might buy from that dealer. No way I'll buy a TV at retail price from Best Buy, no matter how much I like it.

If Amazon had a retail shop, I'd go spend all day there. :)

I think the problem for many is we don't get to see most TVs at their best...

You're exactly right. And many of us develop our opinion off of what our eyes tell us. There's no doubt that in many cases LCD has the edge over any plasma in the typical store settings. Most plasmas are just to dim to compete in that setting. However, in stores like the Sony Store where the lights aren't as bright you'll see the XBRs flaws start to show even with dedicated feeds and don't look near as good as they do in BB. It's still about a person's taste but in reality most of us have to rely on what our eyes see. And not many will buy a TV (or two TVs) and take them home and compare them. Regardless of whether one believes it's ethical or not it'd just be a hassle to bring home two 50"+ TVs for comparisons.

I got to demo the 55XBR8 and 70XBR7 today and it is fairly obvious that LCD fundamental issues with backlight leakage and viewing angle are still present. Especially the 70XBR7 which had a white haze over the picture (light leakage) that got dramatically worse at increasing viewing angle. I was hoping to purchase the XBR8 for my bedroom but these issues just bug the heck out of me. I just get the feeling it looks like a cheap backlit billboard sign at times. Just my humble opinion.

.....

...... I was hoping to purchase the XBR8 for my bedroom but these issues just bug the heck out of me. I just get the feeling it looks like a cheap backlit billboard sign at times. Just my humble opinion. well, please, just go on and humble away on the xbr8...either here or over at the xbr8 thread, if you would.

thanks

TVbc

I do the same, though it's so hard to find a remote on Best Buy, much less a TV showing something worth watching, like a Blu-Ray. especially plasma, they never seem to have anything decent playing on them.



Yes, fine as long as you don't know going in that you're most likely gonna return it. Some do that on here and post about it. I don't know if I want this tv so I'll buy it and try it. That's wrong.

So true.. What drives me even more crazy about department stores is this. If you are going to try and sell TV's, especially the Kuro or the higher end TV's, why not play Blu Rays on them? Why not try and show the best content on them? I can't tell you how many times people look at the Kuro or a higher end model and say "That picture is horrible". Most people when buying TV's do it strictly off the pic they see in a store. It's HORRIBLE. Not sure what your guys BB Magnolia center looks like in your area, but every single one of them in the Chicago area has the Kuro right out in front with EVERY single light pointing on it. Drives me crazy! and a lot of times, they are playing a standard DVD on it. I know you want the TV out in the open, but why not put it back in one of the studio rooms? Why not play a really good Blu Ray movie on it? It seriously drive me CRAZY! And please, please, know something about the TV and quit giving me ********!

The best electronics store is ABT. If anyone in the Chicagoland area has been there, they know what I'm talking about. It's bigger than a Home Depot and you can spend your entire day there. It's incredible! I'm like a kid in a candy store.

OK, I'm done venting.....

The best electronics store is ABT. If anyone in the Chicagoland area has been there, they know what I'm talking about. It's bigger than a Home Depot and you can spend your entire day there. It's incredible! I'm like a kid in a candy store.



And those homemade cookies are damn good! Looking at your belly I can see you've been there too many times this month.

And those homemade cookies are damn good! Looking at your belly I can see you've been there too many times this month.


Well, don't hate me cause I have rock hard ABS.

Sorry guys, It's called Jealousy.... :)

This thread is another one of those off the wall crazy threads, and thats fine with me.

Does not matter if you are a LCD or Plasma FanBoy. ABT in Chicago, is one of the best stores in the nation, I have bought a lot of $$$$$ from them, and they have taken care of problems here in Houston when local retailers would not! Now that is SERVICE!

It is truely amazing to me how much business BB, CC, Tweater has given up - Because they did not "Get It"

Well, don't hate me cause I have rock hard ABS.

Sorry guys, It's called Jealousy.... :)

This thread is another one of those off the wall crazy threads, and thats fine with me.

Does not matter if you are a LCD or Plasma FanBoy. ABT in Chicago, is one of the best stores in the nation, I have bought a lot of $$$$$ from them, and they have taken care of problems here in Houston when local retailers would not! Now that is SERVICE!

It is truely amazing to me how much business BB, CC, Tweater has given up - Because they did not "Get It"

And that's why they rock! They give you the lowest prices and the best customer service. It's a simple concept done right!

And that's why they rock! They give you the lowest prices and the best customer service. It's a simple concept done right!

Exactly. That's why I buy everything from them and kiss the floor every time I step foot in that store.