Marquesalan,

You need to split your antenna lead to do this. As long as you have a substantial antenna signal, you can buy a 2-way splitter (5-900mhz) and connect it to your cable coming from the wall. Then use two more coax cables to connect to your DVR's antenna input and your tv's antenna input.

For me to hear this is a bummer! Based on other's opinions, I was expecting pristine picture quality through the DVR. Can someone assure me that Marquesalan is the only one that has noted the Pal's pq is not crisp. The cnet review said the Pal DVR is equal to or better than any dvr they've tested in terms of picture quality.

Mine is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow and this comment concerned me. I bought through solidsignal.com on Tuesday.

There is a connection issue with his machine. I can not tell a difference between the PalDVR tuner and any of my other HD tuners.

Marquesalan,

You need to split your antenna lead to do this. As long as you have a substantial antenna signal, you can buy a 2-way splitter (5-900mhz) and connect it to your cable coming from the wall. Then use two more coax cables to connect to your DVR's antenna input and your tv's antenna input.

For me to hear this is a bummer! Based on other's opinions, I was expecting pristine picture quality through the DVR. Can someone assure me that Marquesalan is the only one that has noted the Pal's pq is not crisp. The cnet review said the Pal DVR is equal to or better than any dvr they've tested in terms of picture quality.

Mine is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow and this comment concerned me. I bought through solidsignal.com on Tuesday.


Picture is as good as the input signal. I have absolutely no complaints about the picture quality. I would guess that there are some adjustments that need to be made to either the DVR or the TV's processing of the HDMI feed (assuming HDMI is being used).

Is it possible to use my tv tuner instead of the dtvpal dvr tuner? My picture is not very crisp looking using the DVR. I hooked up my TV directly to the wall and the picture looks great!!!
I want to run the signal through my tv, then to my dtvpal dvr for recording purposes only.

I don't know about your TV, but mine has separate fine tuning for each type of signal input. When I hooked up the DTVPal DVR using component input, I had to adjust the picture settings (color, sharpness, contrast, etc.) to match those I was getting from the tuner in the satellite receiver using HDMI. Once I did that, the picture quality was identical.

sivartk, swestbom, BuffaloBill

Thanks for your assurances guys. I had read nothing but good reviews about the Pal's PQ, so I was confused.

I'll let you know how my box performs some time next week.

That sounds right to me. Perhaps golinux can confirm.
OK. I did a recording/trick play test on F201 last night. I let the show record several minutes and then tried the skip and back functions. They worked. I then tried the skip and forward functions. They worked. I did not think to try trick plays when recording two shows duh. Will report back when I do.

Working well, I have only one issue...

I wanted this unit to be a replacement for a 622. I have the 622 hooked up in the basement and use the UHF pro remote to control the 622 in the bedroom. Anyway to do this with the DTVpal unit?

Or is the DTVpal until an IR only unit. Any help is much appreciated.

Other than that, the unit works great!

Working well, I have only one issue...

I wanted this unit to be a replacement for a 622. I have the 622 hooked up in the basement and use the UHF pro remote to control the 622 in the bedroom. Anyway to do this with the DTVpal unit?

Or is the DTVpal until an IR only unit. Any help is much appreciated.

Other than that, the unit works great!

IR only - you'll have to come up with a solution to control from another room. There are several out there if you do some looking around.

DTVPal DVR review in the Washington Post...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/04/dish_networks_dtvpal_dvr_puts.html

Working well, I have only one issue...

I wanted this unit to be a replacement for a 622. I have the 622 hooked up in the basement and use the UHF pro remote to control the 622 in the bedroom. Anyway to do this with the DTVpal unit?

Or is the DTVpal until an IR only unit. Any help is much appreciated.

Other than that, the unit works great!

You seem to only be concerned with the remote. What about the HD signal out to TV? I currently have a Dish 522 that provides a second tuner to a bedroom via coax. What is the best way to transmit an HD signal to another room?

The Washington Post online has two generally favorable articles today about the DTVPal DVR. One of them mentions the AVS Forum as an additional source of information, and notes the Forum's "astoundingly comprehensive discussion of the DTVPal DVR, starting with a lengthy frequently-asked-questions file that covers everything from the finer points of its onscreen interface to its electrical consumption."

Here are the links:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/04/dish_networks_dtvpal_dvr_puts.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042401198.html

Bob

"No cable"? "Fail"? I don't know what these people expect for an HD DVR that only costs $250.00. Especially one that's put out by one of the primary competitors to cable.

This "Wal-Mart mentality" really has taken over the US. I don't know how old any of these people are, but apparently they haven't been keeping track of the electronics industry for the past several decades.

They can "think wishfully" all they want - but they need to research the way the market works and learn the reality.

Folks: Glad you noticed my review and the accompanying blog post. If you've got any questions about either, I'd be glad to answer them.

- RP

"No cable"? "Fail"? I don't know what these people expect for an HD DVR that only costs $250.00. Especially one that's put out by one of the primary competitors to cable.

This "Wal-Mart mentality" really has taken over the US. I don't know how old any of these people are, but apparently they haven't been keeping track of the electronics industry for the past several decades.

They can "think wishfully" all they want - but they need to research the way the market works and learn the reality.

No Cable = Win!! I don't pay my hard earned money to cable or satellite that has worse HD quality on the local channels....I don't pay them at all....waste of money. Why add complexity to a unit in which the target market won't use most of. Did you see the page it is on Dish website? Right next to the digital converter boxes aimed at people that use OTA.

Find an old Sony DHG-HDD250 or a Tivo if you are spending your money on cable service. If you can afford $60-$150 a month for cable, and extra $200-$300 for a Tivo shouldn't be a big deal for you.

Working well, I have only one issue...

I wanted this unit to be a replacement for a 622. I have the 622 hooked up in the basement and use the UHF pro remote to control the 622 in the bedroom. Anyway to do this with the DTVpal unit?

Or is the DTVpal until an IR only unit. Any help is much appreciated.

Other than that, the unit works great!

I use the Next Generation Remote Control Extender (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1Z0HA?ie=UTF8&tag=product003-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000C1Z0HA) and it works great. I only have one DTVPal DVR and we watch TV from mulitple rooms. I installed this with the DVR in the basement and use the remote in the bedrooms and family room for watching TV. It's actually on sale this week and Amazon is the cheapest and includes free shipping.

"No cable"? "Fail"? I don't know what these people expect for an HD DVR that only costs $250.00. Especially one that's put out by one of the primary competitors to cable.

This "Wal-Mart mentality" really has taken over the US. I don't know how old any of these people are, but apparently they haven't been keeping track of the electronics industry for the past several decades.

They can "think wishfully" all they want - but they need to research the way the market works and learn the reality.

We have heard all this before, no cable tuner, no tru2way, no BluRay burner, no coffee maker, doesn't end world hunger, costs too much... Fine buy a Tivo or rent from your cable company but if you want a reliable (OK the jury is still out on F206 but things look good so far) box to receive high quality OTA signals and record them in high definition for time shifting with no after the sell blood letting this is it. And the added bonus of two tuners. Record two programs and watch a third with a little added effort (change your TV's input or press analog passthrough, oh the agony). That is all I want.

I used to use a VCR for time shifting until I bought a Panasonic DMR-E85. If I had to go back to a VCR with no EPG I might just give up watching TV. If someone has a VCR and tries the DVR connected to a decent HDTV they will think they just discovered fire.

The review in the Post did hit on one big problem though. If it were not for Dish's self destructive marketing they could not make enough of them. Maybe now that most people seem to be satisfied with F206 maybe they will try to expand their market. Not that it matters, I got mine.:)

Folks: Glad you noticed my review and the accompanying blog post. If you've got any questions about either, I'd be glad to answer them.

- RP

I, for one, would like to thank you for bringing some very important aspects of the whole DTVPal DVR history into a broader light that, hopefully, will shine straight into the eyes of the Dish Network management:


Some, such as Dish's self-destructive marketing of it, could be fixed relatively easily. Others would require Dish's engineers to get back to work--



Worse yet, it offers only a 90-day warranty and does not let customers return one if they decide they don't like it.
That's no way to sell customers on a gadget as unusual as this.


Many of us here have wondered why Dish appears to not see the potential of this product. At least now we know we are not alone.
Thanks again.

I guess I've joined the F206 lockup. Had unit almost 3 mos and just a few reboots when I was doing some recording/ playing a recording/rewind procedure. Updated with USB and have had several remote freezes. Had to unplug, and try all various combo to get to remote response area. Used procedure similar to one in #8 comment. It worked the last 2 time. I have a RA# from dish (unit came from "solid signal") I don't see too many comments about failure since workaround found. I don't see improvement unless complaints made to dish, and units returned. (I'm paying shipping cost). Do you all think a f206 software problem, as I do?
Foxy2

I'm going through the setup wizard. I'm connecting an analog TV which has component input. I get to the screen where it says "select the output type and aspect ratio for your HDTV". Since I don't have one I chose the closest - 480p and 4:3. It then asks me to select the aspect ratio for your SDTV - I select 4:3. Through the coax out, I can view fine by tuning the TV to channel 3. Naturally, the picture is not great. When I connect the component cables (I had a Philips SDTV DVR there previously and moved the component connection from the Philips to the DTVPal) I get a skinny black and white picture. I've seen such behavior when I've connected a DVD player which was outputting 480p instead of 480i. I don't believe this TV can do 480p. Based on the manual, I'd like to confirm that with an analog TV (which cannot do 480p), the only output from the DTVPal that I can use is the coax out.

I guess I've joined the F206 lockup. Had unit almost 3 mos and just a few reboots when I was doing some recording/ playing a recording/rewind procedure. Updated with USB and have had several remote freezes. Had to unplug, and try all various combo to get to remote response area. Used procedure similar to one in #8 comment. It worked the last 2 time. I have a RA# from dish (unit came from "solid signal") I don't see too many comments about failure since workaround found. I don't see improvement unless complaints made to dish, and units returned. (I'm paying shipping cost). Do you all think a f206 software problem, as I do?
Foxy2

That is exactly why I haven't upgraded mine. I'm still at F201 and haven't had a single lockup or reboot. Sure there are some new features that would be nice, but not worth the chance. 5 months with no issues, I'm not pressing my luck.

I have learned that in TVGOS, there is a concept of channel ON and OFF. Some channels default to ON, some OFF (I guess to keep data transfer minimized ??).

I can't prove it yet, but I highly suspect the channels each of us see TVGOS data for are defaulted on, the missing ones are defaulted OFF.

On the Sony TV my colleague has, the TVGOS maintenance screen has the ability to override the default, so I suspect that's why he gets the channels that I don't on my DTVpal.

If this is true, Please DISH, give us the ability to change the TVGOS channel status in a future firmware release!!

I have also learned that the data stream I receive from WNED-DT in Buffalo has something like 400 channels in it (must be OTA and cable), so it sort of makes sense that the ones defaulted to ON are the more popular ones, so things like subchannels and out of market stations would be set to OFF, which fits my pattern exactly.


That is correct, ProsPops. It may be possible that TVGOS is the source of the problem, but I just find the fact it started right after I did my F206 upgrade too compelling.



bfdtv, I read this with interest as it is my other sore spot with this unit. I've been talking to users of other TVGOS-enabled devices in my area and they report all 24 digital OTA channels in my area are available on TVGOS, yet the DTVpal DVR only shows just 10 of them.

I'm still trying to deduce what is happening, but this is what my analysis shows to date:

- all "-1" channels in the host station's market have data
- all subchannels for the host station itself have data
- all subchannels in the host station's market other than the host station itself DO NOT have data
- all channels outside of the host station's market DO NOT have data

I'd be curious if others getting TVGOS but missing data follow this pattern or not.

Everything seems to be working fine -- well as fine as it did before. I had a "warm" reboot tonight. But that happens occassionally anyway. I checked my counter, and I had 500 reboots on there until I had followed Tim's fix. So this one tonight is the first onev since.

I also got a message that my disk is full. My counter reads over 2 hours. And I know it is approximate. The thing that is interesting is I've filled up my disk before, but have not gotten the message until now.

When I'm sure things are fairly stable, I may try the 1G drive, once I know it is working well for other people.

Thanks again everyone for all of the suggestions and help.

Susie

I meant 1T, not 1G.

I'm going through the setup wizard. I'm connecting an analog TV which has component input. I get to the screen where it says "select the output type and aspect ratio for your HDTV". Since I don't have one I chose the closest - 480p and 4:3. It then asks me to select the aspect ratio for your SDTV - I select 4:3. Through the coax out, I can view fine by tuning the TV to channel 3. Naturally, the picture is not great. When I connect the component cables (I had a Philips SDTV DVR there previously and moved the component connection from the Philips to the DTVPal) I get a skinny black and white picture. I've seen such behavior when I've connected a DVD player which was outputting 480p instead of 480i. I don't believe this TV can do 480p. Based on the manual, I'd like to confirm that with an analog TV (which cannot do 480p), the only output from the DTVPal that I can use is the coax out.

Make sure that the colors are right, red->red, green->green, and blue->blue.
The unit also has composite out (yellow) which is SD 480i only.

- all "-1" channels in the host station's market have data
- all subchannels for the host station itself have data
- all subchannels in the host station's market other than the host station itself DO NOT have data
- all channels outside of the host station's market DO NOT have data

I'd be curious if others getting TVGOS but missing data follow this pattern or not.

Pattern in southern Oregon from 2 f206 pals,
030-01 no data
026-02 no data FOX
026-01 no data
010-03 no data CBS
010-02 no data
010-01 7days
008-02 7days PBS
008-01 7days
Does not quite fit the pattern you describe. It would be nice if the guide was fully populated for all channels.

My 2nd PAL DVR just arrived from Solid Signal -- delivered into my hands, actually.
It was in a shipping box that just fit (snugly) width by depth and about 4 inches taller with large "bubble"/air bags on top of the retail box -- NO DENTS in boxes! Thanks, FedEx! The DVR was in a large taped-up plastic bag with multi-language warnings on it -- not the sealed electronic bag with my first DVR in January.
Monday/20th: I ordered it and it was charged to my CC.
Tuesday/21nd: Got email from Customer Svc: not available, yet.
Wednesday/22nd AM: Shipping notice and subsequent tracking:
Date/Time Activity Location Details
Apr 25, 2009 12:21 PM, Delivered, Jacksonville, FL
Left at front door. Signature Service not requested.(my standing instructions, since I'm sitting at my computer/dining nook, with a good view out the window.)
Apr 25, 2009 7:44 AM, On FedEx vehicle for delivery
JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:22 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:03 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 12:09 AM, In transit, NORCROSS, GA
Apr 24, 2009 11:04 PM, Departed FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 9:24 PM, Arrived at FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 8:27 AM, Departed FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM, Arrived at FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 23, 2009 9:18 PM, Left FedEx origin facility, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 6:44 PM Arrived at FedEx location, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 2:04 PM Picked up LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 11:25 AM Shipment information sent to FedEx
Super service from Solid Signal and FedEx.
Externally, everything looks okay. I noted the back sticker differences: Serial number similar to batch #2, but 4,607 higher.
M/B#1: RR67517T01256M
M/B#2(Newest): RR67517T01574M

The Smart Card was similar and 4,523 higher, discounting the last two digits at the end -- 36 (#1) and 58 (#2).

One thing different was two 1" pieces of ~5/8" plastic tubing, slightly flattened, loose in the bottom of the retail box -- ??
I don't have time to fire it up right now, but I'll look for any other differences when I do. The manual is the same, with no TV code listing for Visio -- 766, I believe, based on the DISH remotes.
Got the little package with the composite video and audio cables, 4 batteries, and a piece of coax... and the remote, of course.
I hope these DVRs both work and continue to do so. I've had no problems with the first one (from batch #2).
Wynn

My 2nd PAL DVR just arrived from Solid Signal -- delivered into my hands, actually.
It was in a shipping box that just fit (snugly) width by depth and about 4 inches taller with large "bubble"/air bags on top of the retail box -- NO DENTS in boxes! Thanks, FedEx! The DVR was in a large taped-up plastic bag with multi-language warnings on it -- not the sealed electronic bag with my first DVR in January.
Monday/20th: I ordered it and it was charged to my CC.
Tuesday/21nd: Got email from Customer Svc: not available, yet.
Wednesday/22nd AM: Shipping notice and subsequent tracking:
Date/Time Activity Location Details
Apr 25, 2009 12:21 PM, Delivered, Jacksonville, FL
Left at front door. Signature Service not requested.(my standing instructions, since I'm sitting at my computer/dining nook, with a good view out the window.)
Apr 25, 2009 7:44 AM, On FedEx vehicle for delivery
JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:22 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:03 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 12:09 AM, In transit, NORCROSS, GA
Apr 24, 2009 11:04 PM, Departed FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 9:24 PM, Arrived at FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 8:27 AM, Departed FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM, Arrived at FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 23, 2009 9:18 PM, Left FedEx origin facility, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 6:44 PM Arrived at FedEx location, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 2:04 PM Picked up LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 11:25 AM Shipment information sent to FedEx
Super service from Solid Signal and FedEx.
Externally, everything looks okay. I noted the back sticker differences: Serial number similar to batch #2, but 4,607 higher.
M/B#1: RR67517T01256M
M/B#2(Newest): RR67517T01574M

The Smart Card was similar and 4,523 higher, discounting the last two digits at the end -- 36 (#1) and 58 (#2).

One thing different was two 1" pieces of ~5/8" plastic tubing, slightly flattened, loose in the bottom of the retail box -- ??
I don't have time to fire it up right now, but I'll look for any other differences when I do. The manual is the same, with no TV code listing for Visio -- 766, I believe, based on the DISH remotes.
Got the little package with the composite video and audio cables, 4 batteries, and a piece of coax... and the remote, of course.
I hope these DVRs both work and continue to do so. I've had no problems with the first one (from batch #2).
Wynn

I was able to set the remote to control the Visio with the device code scan, it was one the first codes that came up.

Mine has been hooked up since Thursday, no problems yet. Disconnected the cable box and sitting by the door ready for return to the cable company with my order to disconnect.

jccsup, I know what you mean. I can't wait to do that as well. I figure that can save $100 a month by going to OTA, only. I only get SD local channels from DISH! I watch locals OTA in HD and use the DISH DVRs to record one OTA channel, each. I also have the Sony HDG-250 for another OTA HD DVR. The DISH DVRs can record 2 SAT and 1 OTA at the same time. I accidently did that once -- started an OTA recording with two SAT channels already recording. I then duplicated that another time, but I swear that I tried that when I first got the DISH DVRs because I had seen varying reports about that.
I can get a lower-tier Blockbuster subscription and later rent and watch some of the SAT/TV series I'll be missing, ie. Dexter, Weeds, Damages, etc. We would miss the HGTV stuff, though. I would still be saving $100 a month. Right now I'm worried about the two-year "committment" for the rebates, discounts, etc. So, I might hold on to DISH until next January... not sure.
I have, or have coming, everything that I need to hook up the rest of my house OTA... and feed 6 or more devices in my "media room".
Got to run errands and go to a gun show.
Wynn

One thing different was two 1" pieces of ~5/8" plastic tubing, slightly flattened, loose in the bottom of the retail box -- ??

On my April replacement box, both coax in and out had that plastic tubing covering/protecting the threads during shipment.

"No cable"? "Fail"?

Rhetorical question: How many people who are in great difficulty with making their rent or mortgage payments are, even so, forking out important amounts of money each month for cable or satellite?

Since my wife went back to work over 2 years ago and I started getting Social Security last year, we've just refinanced our house and will be out of debt (except mortgage) by the end of September. we're both retired USAF -- she's 53 (MSgt) and I am 62 (O3E/Capt). After "I" went through our mutual funds savings and my IRA, we were hurting until my wife got a job. She has management experience and a usable dual major in Psychology/Sociology which allowed her to get a health related job, while I can buy all the toys I want again. I'm lucky that she's such a great wife and "puts up" with all my hobby purchases. She works 2PM to 11PM or so and really appreciates the delayed viewing with all these DVRs, so that's not as hard a sell as the computer hobby!
"They" used to say that you needed about 70% of your income for retirement. HA! That's only if you plan to do LESS and your retirement is inflation-protected. That might change with the current administrations spending spree, though.
Oh, the plastic tubing was about 5/8" -- way too big for the RF connectors!

I was able to set the remote to control the Visio with the device code scan, it was one the first codes that came up.

Mine has been hooked up since Thursday, no problems yet. Disconnected the cable box and sitting by the door ready for return to the cable company with my order to disconnect.

Try Lucky Goldstar (LG's old name) it works as well.

Could someone tell me if I can use this product with a set of rabbit ears and hdmi between HDTV and Pal while TV is also hooked up to a 522 via s-video? This TV is also hooked up to a VIP722 in another room via component. I'm thinking that in order to record locals with the Pal I would have to select the TV's hdmi hookup. If that is the case, would I still be able to record on the 522 at the same time off the satellite tuner (i.e. record USA not local)? I am also assuming that the TV stays on channel 3 for both the 522 and the Pal. If the Pal has to be on the local channel, then I would think this cannot be done. Sorry if I made this complicated. Thanks.

Originally Posted by foxy2
I guess I've joined the F206 lockup. Had unit almost 3 mos and just a few reboots when I was doing some recording/ playing a recording/rewind procedure. Updated with USB and have had several remote freezes. Had to unplug, and try all various combo to get to remote response area. Used procedure similar to one in #8 comment. It worked the last 2 time. I have a RA# from dish (unit came from "solid signal") I don't see too many comments about failure since workaround found. I don't see improvement unless complaints made to dish, and units returned. (I'm paying shipping cost). Do you all think a f206 software problem, as I do?
Foxy2

That is exactly why I haven't upgraded mine. I'm still at F201 and haven't had a single lockup or reboot. Sure there are some new features that would be nice, but not worth the chance. 5 months with no issues, I'm not pressing my luck.

Since January with F202, I had no lockups or reboots. Last week, I updated to F206 and have had 2 lockups since then. I wish i could reinstall F202 but have read that can't be done.

(...) I wish i could reinstall F202 but have read that can't be done.
Try doing it with USB. I've been wondering about that myself (though I've had no problems with F206).

I need another converter box and decide to try the DTVPal since I already have the Plus. The website wouldn't let me order because I already owned a "DTVPal." So I called Dish, I was half way through ordering and the guy asks for my Social Security Number.

After I questioned it, he said he could just use the last four numbers. Then he said, no, he needed the whole thing. I cancelled and hung up.

Has anyone had this happen?

I've done a lot of on line ordering. I've never had anyone ask me for this.

Susie

make up a number.

I suspect its on their order screen so they can run credit checks for their other service. But since you're paying for this outright what difference would it make?

Thanks jerrisn! Going to try it out!

I use the Next Generation Remote Control Extender (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1Z0HA?ie=UTF8&tag=product003-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000C1Z0HA) and it works great. I only have one DTVPal DVR and we watch TV from mulitple rooms. I installed this with the DVR in the basement and use the remote in the bedrooms and family room for watching TV. It's actually on sale this week and Amazon is the cheapest and includes free shipping.

That is correct, ProsPops. It may be possible that TVGOS is the source of the problem, but I just find the fact it started right after I did my F206 upgrade too compelling.



bfdtv, I read this with interest as it is my other sore spot with this unit. I've been talking to users of other TVGOS-enabled devices in my area and they report all 24 digital OTA channels in my area are available on TVGOS, yet the DTVpal DVR only shows just 10 of them.

I'm still trying to deduce what is happening, but this is what my analysis shows to date:

- all "-1" channels in the host station's market have data
- all subchannels for the host station itself have data
- all subchannels in the host station's market other than the host station itself DO NOT have data
- all channels outside of the host station's market DO NOT have data

I'd be curious if others getting TVGOS but missing data follow this pattern or not.

I did a channel scan and this is what I found. It does not totally fit your pattern but it is very close.

Channels 14 and 16 are sister stations with their offices in Dayton, 16 is located in Dayton and 14 is located in Oxford so I am not sure what market 14 is considered.


140827

I have learned that in TVGOS, there is a concept of channel ON and OFF. Some channels default to ON, some OFF (I guess to keep data transfer minimized ??).

....

With analog the decision to display a channel in TVGOS is made in the receiving (customer) unit.

When you think about it if the station does not send it you can't receive it. Unless they can figure it out from your zip code how would the DVR know which channels are local and which are in another market but still in TVGOS. The communication is a one way broadcast. The DVR can't request data for the stations it wants all it can do is ignore what it does not want to display.

Could someone tell me if I can use this product with a set of rabbit ears and hdmi between HDTV and Pal while TV is also hooked up to a 522 via s-video? This TV is also hooked up to a VIP722 in another room via component. I'm thinking that in order to record locals with the Pal I would have to select the TV's hdmi hookup. If that is the case, would I still be able to record on the 522 at the same time off the satellite tuner (i.e. record USA not local)? I am also assuming that the TV stays on channel 3 for both the 522 and the Pal. If the Pal has to be on the local channel, then I would think this cannot be done. Sorry if I made this complicated. Thanks.

The PAL DVR uses the TV to display menus and play back recordings. It does not need a TV to record, just a signal input so you can connect the 522 to one input (say component) and the Pal DVR to another (say HDMI). If you must try to connect via the RF input to your TV you will need a combiner and just to be on the safe side I would set the output on one to channel 4 and the other to channel 3. If you use HDMI and component inputs it does not matter what channel the TV is tuned to.

With analog the decision to display a channel in TVGOS is made in the receiving (customer) unit.

When you think about it if the station does not send it you can't receive it. Unless they can figure it out from your zip code how would the DVR know which channels are local and which are in another market but still in TVGOS. The communication is a one way broadcast. The DVR can't request data for the stations it wants all it can do is ignore what it does not want to display.

The Sony unit that the poster referred to has a much more advanced software that uses TVGOS data. It has the ability to turn off the TVGOS listing for a specific station while still being able to tune the station. Then again, it also had name based recording :)

What I can't figure out (I had both at the same time for a while) is why the Sony unit would pull neighboring network data and the DTVPal wouldn't. The only thing I can figure is that the Sony was receiving data for the analog station (it could do both) and using that data on the digital version of the channel. Since the DTVPal doesn't have an analog tuner, it is restricted to digital data.

I've got an NAD DVD player, and the manual does not list any NAD codes (except for TV's and they don't work). Am I out of luck?

Okay, so I received mine tonight. It came from solidsignal.com, I ordered on the 21st.

As I was hoping, the picture quality on 720p channels is more crisp through the Pal DVR than my tv's internal tuner (panasonic plasma px80u). Big relief for me! I was really expecting that. 1080i channels are pretty much identical through the Pal and the tv's internal tuner.

However, I already need help with what I think should be a simple thing to do. I am familiar with these dish remotes and receivers since I had a vip222 receiver just last year. But the Pal is not changing the aspect ratios the same as my satellite box did.

Here is my problem:

I want SD (480i) channels to always be stretched. Pressing "page up" (SD aspect button) to stretch a SD channel will ONLY work when HD is set to "auto". The problem is when I change channels the SD stretch does not stick. The info banner lists SD aspect as "stretch" but displays the image in "normal" (with correct aspect and black side bars).

Furthermore, the stretch mode will stick for SD channels when I press "page down" (HD aspect button). But that messes up the aspect for my HD channels. So basically, to achieve my end I have to press the "page up" or "zoom" button each time I switch between SD and HD channels (a real pain).

My HD output is set to 1080i 16x9 (via HDMI)
SD output is 4x3 ( I have changed this to 16x9 to see if it would make a difference.)

Any ideas? Please help!! I'll be glad to give more info if needed. I never had a problem like this with my vip222 box last year. There must be something I'm doing wrong.

Thanks - I had two screens of HDMI info as well in F202. Just an oddity. Maybe will unplug the cable and plug it back in next chance i get and see what happens. So far, no harm no foul , though.

I tried this and it didn't work. The info was blank.

I tried to change the resolution in setup mode (down graded from 1080i to something) and TV went into same weird mode the computer monitor does when it won't display the correct mode. Must be a timeout on the dvr (like the PC) when in a mode that the PC wont display, it just times out an returns the previous mode.

Jim

Okay, so I received mine tonight. It came from solidsignal.com, I ordered on the 21st.

As I was hoping, the picture quality on 720p channels is more crisp through the Pal DVR than my tv's internal tuner (panasonic plasma px80u). Big relief for me! I was really expecting that. 1080i channels are pretty much identical through the Pal and the tv's internal tuner.

However, I already need help with what I think should be a simple thing to do. I am familiar with these dish remotes and receivers since I had a vip222 receiver just last year. But the Pal is not changing the aspect ratios the same as my satellite box did.

Here is my problem:

I want SD (480i) channels to always be stretched. Pressing "page up" (SD aspect button) to stretch a SD channel will ONLY work when HD is set to "auto". The problem is when I change channels the SD stretch does not stick. The info banner lists SD aspect as "stretch" but displays the image in "normal" (with correct aspect and black side bars).

Furthermore, the stretch mode will stick for SD channels when I press "page down" (HD aspect button). But that messes up the aspect for my HD channels. So basically, to achieve my end I have to press the "page up" or "zoom" button each time I switch between SD and HD channels (a real pain).

My HD output is set to 1080i 16x9 (via HDMI)
SD output is 4x3 ( I have changed this to 16x9 to see if it would make a difference.)

Any ideas? Please help!! I'll be glad to give more info if needed. I never had a problem like this with my vip222 box last year. There must be something I'm doing wrong.

The SD stretch is for the RF / composite OUTPUT only, and the HD stretch is for component / HDMI output.
There is no way to set the stretch setting for SD or HD channels.

I hope Dish adds the features to watch/download movies and stream youtube. Would be cool :) Kinda boring just watching whats on lol..:rolleyes:

The SD stretch is for the RF / composite OUTPUT only, and the HD stretch is for component / HDMI output.
There is no way to set the stretch setting for SD or HD channels.

Oh well, no biggie. After messing around with it last night for a while I figured that would be the conclusion. Thanks for the confirmation.

Besides this one small issue. I am VERY pleased with the functionality of the Pal and was very impressed how fast and full the guide populated upon setup. But hey, I had no future program guide whatsoever with the tv's built in tuner, so it feels like a made a GIANT leap in that regard :).

"No cable"? "Fail"?

Rhetorical question: How many people who are in great difficulty with making their rent or mortgage payments are, even so, forking out important amounts of money each month for cable or satellite?

Most people view Pay TV as a utility, just like electricity or water. few know the ways of free HDTV, but more are learning :)

The SD stretch is for the RF / composite OUTPUT only, and the HD stretch is for component / HDMI output.
There is no way to set the stretch setting for SD or HD channels.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

You can change the SD stretch mode when using HDMI output. It just doesn't retain it and stay stretched after you switch channels.

Paul

Most people view Pay TV as a utility, just like electricity or water. few know the ways of free HDTV, but more are learning :)
Most people bought into the confusing HDTV-Ready/HDTV-Capable TVs pitched by the electronics salesmen as "all they needed." Those misnomers made looking for an ATSC OTA-capable TV confusing for most people. Four years ago I was determined to get one that tuned NTSC, ATSC, and QAM. I did find a 52" Mitsubishi DLP with all of the features I wanted and a lot more. I could view the un-scrambled HDTV on the cable before the other subscribers were able(after they paid to upgrade, of course). The only thing more that I would wish for, is more than ONE HDMI input port. I got a Sony receiver with 3:1 HDMI ports and thought I had it made. Now I'm "drooling" over the new Onkyo TX-SR607 with 5:1 HDMI on the rear and a 6th on the front! Maybe if I have a garage sale soon I can get one of those. I'm using a 5:1 switch to my receiver, or rather feeding the switch with my receiver since the switch won't "feed" the receiver (RMA'd one before using it to feed the TV). This really overly complicates switching between devices. It's way beyond my wife's ability/desire to turn things on. If the TV, Receiver, HDMI switch, and the desired source STB/DVR is not set "just so", she's lost. (I, too, sometimes.)
I really had a lot of fun adding the second PAL DVR yesterday(the 7th HDMI source device). I was trying to set the remotes up and I wound up with both PALs set to 4, sort of. I could get both DVRs to show system info -- channel 4 on both, but I couldn't turn either off... meanwhile the DISH 722 in ANOTHER room was responding to the PAL remotes. I came back to the beginning of this forum and found that I needed to use TWO digits for the channel on the PAL remote -- not mentioned in the DISH DVR guides. Nothing is mentioned about how to change remote control channels in the PAL DVR Guide -- another reason to watch and join this forum. I really appreciate the wealth of information shared here by people who really go out of their way to help all of us.
Wynn

Could someone tell me if I can use this product with a set of rabbit ears and hdmi between HDTV and Pal while TV is also hooked up to a 522 via s-video? This TV is also hooked up to a VIP722 in another room via component. I'm thinking that in order to record locals with the Pal I would have to select the TV's hdmi hookup. If that is the case, would I still be able to record on the 522 at the same time off the satellite tuner (i.e. record USA not local)? I am also assuming that the TV stays on channel 3 for both the 522 and the Pal. If the Pal has to be on the local channel, then I would think this cannot be done. Sorry if I made this complicated. Thanks.

I have a similar setup. Just split your antenna cable for a many devices as you have. I have mine split into 3 outputs. 1 to TV, 1 to VIP 722 and 1 to PAL DVR. The 722 and DVR are connected to the TV via HDMI and the TV is connected directly to its antenna connection. This way I can watch TV, and record 3 separate local OTA stations. I also have the main lead from the Antenna spit 4 times to other rooms.

Thanks to both WillN937 and Frank43 for your replies. Looks like it's a go for the PalDVR. Any thoughts on buying through Dish or Solid Signal. What about the warranty if purchasing through SS. Thanks

Thanks to both WillN937 and Frank43 for your replies. Looks like it's a go for the PalDVR. Any thoughts on buying through Dish or Solid Signal. What about the warranty if purchasing through SS. Thanks
No tax and fast service with Solid Signal. They are probably easier to deal with as well. They won't try to process you as a DISH subscriber trying to "upgrade" a DVR with them... or be denied a sale because you bought another product from them recently -- if you've been following this thread for more than a few days.

OK, the TVGOS works for 8 days, but not on all channels, like ABC or PBS. Why?
I know that TVGOS is coming from CBS (KPIX) in San Francisco, so why is the data not available for the other S.F. channels?

OK, the TVGOS works for 8 days, but not on all channels, like ABC or PBS. Why?
I know that TVGOS is coming from CBS (KPIX) in San Francisco, so why is the data not available for the other S.F. channels?Likewise in Jacksonville, FL -- Only PSIP for 1 day or less for ABC and NOTHING but the callsign for PBS... plus I lost TV Guide on my Sony DVR when PBS went all-digital. The Sony has the CBS digital channel now listed as the host, but no TV Guide.
2nd DVR working okay so far. TV Guide up and record and "tricks" work fine. I'll try a few timers next.

Likewise in Jacksonville, FL -- Only PSIP for 1 day or less for ABC and NOTHING but the callsign for PBS... plus I lost TV Guide on my Sony DVR when PBS went all-digital. The Sony has the CBS digital channel now listed as the host, but no TV Guide.
2nd DVR working okay so far. TV Guide up and record and "tricks" work fine. I'll try a few timers next.

Interesting, I also have a Sony with complete 8 day data, but on an analog host. It appears the digital version of TVGOS still needs some work.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

You can change the SD stretch mode when using HDMI output. It just doesn't retain it and stay stretched after you switch channels.

Paul

Indeed Paul, you can stretch the SD channel using SD stretch. The lack of retaining the stretch mode after changing channels was the issue I thought I could rectify. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like my tv's tuner or zenith converter box.

While using my second DVR, I've noticed a "glitch". I have the older remote set as #4 and the newer set as channel #5. Pushing the system info button for either unit brings the System Information window up on both machines. Pushing the select button for "done" clears the screen on both machines. The problem is that if the other machine was OFF, it is now ON, that is to say that the remote for one will turn ON the other machine and bring up the Sys Info page and clear it, but it won't turn the other machine OFF. I don't know if this will cause problems with recordings in progress on the other DVR?? I'll have to test that.

I have a ra# for returning the dtvpal dvr to Colorodo. I was told that a pre-paid label was to Texas, so I couldn't use that. I notice that some avs forum member have returned the unit for replacement to Texas with the pre-paid label. [B]Has that caused anyone a problem with the replacement? [B]if not, I'll request the pre-paid label again.
foxy2

My return was sent to El Paso, Tx using the prepaid label. No issues resulted.

My return was sent to El Paso, Tx using the prepaid label. No issues resulted.
I recontacted Dish, and a very nice cust. serv rep Veronica, emailed me a label. I did not have to recontact a supervisor. So they can print labels. It's for Texas, and has my acc't number on the label too. Now I have my fingers crossed that the replacement works ok, and does'nt freeze.
foxy2

Just wondering what the general consensus is on the latest F206 upgrade. Has the upgrade cured most of the issues everyone has been having? The bottom line, is it worth getting at the present time? I am very close to making the purchase but was wondering how the last couple of weeks has been for anyone that upgraded from F202. Thank you all in advance for your comments.

Just wondering what the general consensus is on the latest F206 upgrade. Has the upgrade cured most of the issues everyone has been having? The bottom line, is it worth getting at the present time? I am very close to making the purchase but was wondering how the last couple of weeks has been for anyone that upgraded from F202. Thank you all in advance for your comments.

Quite a few comments back the last several pages that you could gleen the general feeling on this upgrade.

I did a channel scan and this is what I found. It does not totally fit your pattern but it is very close.

Channels 14 and 16 are sister stations with their offices in Dayton, 16 is located in Dayton and 14 is located in Oxford so I am not sure what market 14 is considered.


You're Using a Dayton DMA Zip code and receiving the TVGoS data from WHIO-DT Dayton's (7.x on your list) TVGoS streams.

You could alternatively get TVGoS listings from Cincinnati stations from WKRC-DT's(12.1/12.2 on your list) TVGOS streams by using a Cincinnati DMA Zip code instead. But, you probably wouldn't want to do that, as it looks like you aren't receiving several of the Cincinnati stations -- TVGoS listings (that work with DTVPal DVR) for Cincinnati DMA stations from WKRC's TVGoS streams are currently : WCPO 9 ABC, WKRC 12 CBS+CW, WCET 48 PBS, WKON 52 or WCVN 54(KET/PBS), WSTR 64 MyTV .... Yes, also missing Listings for NBC and Fox Just Like Dayton ....

WPTO 14 is in Cincinnati DMA, as is Oxford their COL(community of license). And indeed the analog station transmits from Oxford, but WPTO digital actually transmits from WXIX(19) tower in Cincinnati, as will continue to be the case after they cease analog transmission on May 1. However, Unlike is the case for WPTD 16 (from WHIO's TVGoS Steam+using a Dayton area zip) There is no TVGoS Data for WPTO available currently(Including from WKRC's stream with a Cincy Zip), at least not that works with the DTVPal DVR.

BTW, WKOI (43)/TBN is considered to be a Dayton Market station, with it's COL in Richmond, Indiana, even though it actually transmits from a location within the Cincinnati DMA, specifically a tower located between Middeltown+Oxford, Ohio.

When I first started using DTVPal DVR (Note: Still no reboots here whatsoever with F201, F202 or F206) in Early January, it was the case that, IF I input a Cincinnati DMA Zip (such as the one I actually live in), I had TVGoS listings from WKRC's stream for both the Dayton+Cincinnati stations - Which was nice, and exactly the way I liked it .... But, unfortunetly, several weeks later, that changed, and since then I now only get Dayton area TVGoS listings (the same ones on your list), Only from WHIO's TVGoS Streams, and ONLY If I input a Dayton area Zip -- such as say, 45327, Germantown Ohio which I'd be in if I moved about 1000 feet North -- and, alternatively only get Cincinnati Station TVGoS listings from WKRC's stream, only if I input a Cincinnati DMA Zip (such as 45042, the one I'm in) .....

So, it seems that now, for Both Cincinnati+Dayton TVGoS digital listings(all Cincy+Dayton stations are really "local" for me) I would need the capability to input two zips on DTVPal DVR, so I can receive and utilize the TVGoS listings from WHIO-DT (for Dayton listings with a Dayton Zip input) and WKRC-DT (for Cincinnati listings with a cincinnati Zip input as well) ....

Note : Oh, as for How I was able to detirmine some of this --- I'm able to isolate what TVGoS listings are coming from which station+what works with which zip code by how I aim antenna/adding some attenuation/etc -- I.e. I can't receive/decode anything from WHIO, in a different direction for me if I have antenna aimed at Cincinnati/WKRC .... Oh, and note Only WHIO+WKRC sends TVGoS digital info in Dayton or Cincinnati --- I think the TVGoS folks provide the data for all the different stations(if they have that data available and have an agreement/etc. with the stations to carry it), --- in our case, WHIO/WKRC merely send the stream TVGoS sends them ... But the guide info via PSIP EIT's (event information tables) are, however transmitted indivdually by each station ....

I have a ra# for returning the dtvpal dvr to Colorodo. I was told that a pre-paid label was to Texas, so I couldn't use that. I notice that some avs forum member have returned the unit for replacement to Texas with the pre-paid label. [B]Has that caused anyone a problem with the replacement? [B]if not, I'll request the pre-paid label again.
foxy2

With my first DTVPal they had sent me a UPS prepaid label -- which I wisely held onto and just used to send back my 2nd defective DTVPal. In my case it was going to Colorado. If you're worried I'd just ask them in chat what the deal is before sending it.

Maybe a better question would be - is there a way to teach codes to the remote?
I've got an NAD DVD player, and the manual does not list any NAD codes (except for TV's and they don't work). Am I out of luck?

After 5 days with my new PAL, i am pleased with my purchase so far. A few observations: I like the fact the unit surfs for new DTV stations, even though you have to manually delete the ones that are coming in occasionally from other areas. I am also please with the quality of the HD picture, which rivals the Vizio internal tuner. TVGOS seems to be populating the guide well, even showing listings for a .2 station which is out of my market.

My only complaint is the digital tuner, i get pixilation more often than the Vizio tuner, even on a close station with 100% signal straight. It may have more difficulty handling multi-path, I am receiving the hot signals on the back side of the Yagi, because i have the antenna directed to the stations 50 miles west.

Just wondering what the general consensus is on the latest F206 upgrade. Has the upgrade cured most of the issues everyone has been having? The bottom line, is it worth getting at the present time? I am very close to making the purchase but was wondering how the last couple of weeks has been for anyone that upgraded from F202. Thank you all in advance for your comments.

I personally had frequent reboots with F201 and F202, but have not had a single problem since upgrading the F/W to F206. I am ready to order 1-2 more units for my other tv's...now if Dish could just get these to share recorded programs over my home network, I would be a happy camper!

Last night, I was recording one program from 8pm-9pm. I noticed I had about 4 hours of HD recording left. I saw that it was recording. I also recorded something from 9pm-11pm.

After the 9pm show started recording, I could no longer find the 8pm show that was recording. Has anyone else experienced deletions of programs that were not supposed to happen?

updated to f206 on april 9th. The DVR has only rebooted once on its own since the update. However the dvr has had a couple of quirks that has forced me boot the machine on my own by holding down the power button. when i check the counters it gives the reason for rebooting as: USR1

anyone know what the codes means?

the reason i had to force a reboot because the audio was gone. All other remote functions seemed normal. I"m on a tube TV with component cables.

A second time I had to force a reboot was probably my own fault. the DVR had run out of space (I have the proctect after each recording function on) so when when the DVR was full it was acting funny because it couldnt delete any recording on its own. even after I made space I couldnt change the channel pause live tv etc..

on this occasion the channel information was all corrupt (no time, no date, no channel info) just some scrambled letters could be seen.

any thoughts?

The Sony unit that the poster referred to has a much more advanced software that uses TVGOS data. It has the ability to turn off the TVGOS listing for a specific station while still being able to tune the station. Then again, it also had name based recording :)

What I can't figure out (I had both at the same time for a while) is why the Sony unit would pull neighboring network data and the DTVPal wouldn't. The only thing I can figure is that the Sony was receiving data for the analog station (it could do both) and using that data on the digital version of the channel. Since the DTVPal doesn't have an analog tuner, it is restricted to digital data.

The owner of the Sony Tv has confirmed my hypothesis - the TVGOS default OFF corresponds exactly to my missing stations (a few hours of PSIP data) and TVGOS default ON corresponds exactly to my working stations (full week's worth of program names and details).

sivartk - the sony is pulling both analog and digital data, both for the working and missing stations.

Now I'm wondering if this TVGOS default ON/OFF is related to analog/digital for a particular channel (ie. digital is off, then analog is on, and vice versa) ??

I'll check again with my colleague.

Last night, I was recording one program from 8pm-9pm. I noticed I had about 4 hours of HD recording left. I saw that it was recording. I also recorded something from 9pm-11pm.

After the 9pm show started recording, I could no longer find the 8pm show that was recording. Has anyone else experienced deletions of programs that were not supposed to happen?Hi efaris, welcome to the forum!

I suspect the issue you are seeing is that watched shows are deleted first. Even if you only watched 10 seconds of the 8 o'clock show, if the DVR needed some space for a new recording, that one is the first to go. (I believe it deletes if free space will drop below around 2 hours of HD, as I have never seen it report less than 2 hours remaining.) Below is my original post on the subject.

The workaround is to mark a partially-watched show as "Protected" if your disk is nearly full and you would like to watch the rest of your show.

I'm wondering if bfdtv would be willing to add this information to the FAQ. bfdtv?I've had my 500 GB hard drive full for the past couple of weeks. No problems operating this way. The unit does a fine job of deleting old recordings to make room for new ones as needed. What I'm starting to suspect is that the unit deletes programs that I have previously viewed, even if they are not the oldest recordings on the player. I'm not complaining, because I actually prefer this behavior, but it is directly in contrast with what is printed in the manual on page 45:

"1. If you run out of space on your DTVPal DVR, recordings that are not protected will begin to be erased, starting with the oldest unprotected one, as needed to make room for new recordings, as they occur."

It's not as easy to verify this behavior as you might think, since the listing of 183 recordings that I currently have does not seem to want to show the date and time for many of the recordings. Plus, it's pretty difficult to see the date and time of deleted recordings! :D

Can anyone else confirm they are seeing this behavior? Also, can anyone comment on whether or not this is how other DVRs behave? I'm particularly wondering if this is how the other Dish DVRs function.

Last night, I was recording one program from 8pm-9pm. I noticed I had about 4 hours of HD recording left. I saw that it was recording. I also recorded something from 9pm-11pm.

After the 9pm show started recording, I could no longer find the 8pm show that was recording. Has anyone else experienced deletions of programs that were not supposed to happen?

F206 seems to have introduced a problem.
Recordings show that they were completed, yet they are not showing up as recorded programs.

This has happened 2x since I upgraded to F206.
Scenario:
Set to record 8pm to 9pm on Channel 17.1
Set to record 9pm to 11pm on Channel 17.1 (actual program ended at 10:30 but I extended the recording to 120 minutes)
Set to record 9pm to 10pm on Channel 4.1

I never use weekly timers. I set up each show every week from the guide.
I have at least 15 hours of HD recording time left.

All 3 programs show up as completed in the daily schedule, but the 9pm-11pm recording was no where to be found.

F202 never failed to make a recording.

The past 2 Sundays the 9pm-11pm recording did not happen.
What is really strange is that last night I was using the TV tuner and noticed the Pal's red light went off at 10:00. When I reviewed the daily schedule, all 3 programs showed complete - not possible since it wasn't 11:00 yet! I immediately checked the time on the Pal since others have commented on it. The time was correct.

(...) when i check the counters it gives the reason for rebooting as: USR1

anyone know what the codes means? (...)
This code means you forced a reboot.

F206 seems to have introduced a problem.
Recordings show that they were completed, yet they are not showing up as recorded programs.

This has happened 2x since I upgraded to F206.
Scenario:
Set to record 8pm to 9pm on Channel 17.1
Set to record 9pm to 11pm on Channel 17.1 (actual program ended at 10:30 but I extended the recording to 120 minutes)
Set to record 9pm to 10pm on Channel 4.1

I never use weekly timers. I set up each show every week from the guide.
I have at least 15 hours of HD recording time left.

All 3 programs show up as completed in the daily schedule, but the 9pm-11pm recording was no where to be found.

F202 never failed to make a recording.

The past 2 Sundays the 9pm-11pm recording did not happen.
What is really strange is that last night I was using the TV tuner and noticed the Pal's red light went off at 10:00. When I reviewed the daily schedule, all 3 programs showed complete - not possible since it wasn't 11:00 yet! I immediately checked the time on the Pal since others have commented on it. The time was correct.

I ran into a similarly strange issue last night had the following set to record:
(all channels have TVGOS guide info)
4.1 8:00-9:00
2.1 9:00-11:00
7.1 9:00-10:00

the 4.1 show recorded just fine except for the fact it recorded for 61 minutes when it was scheduled for only 60.

the show on 2.1 recorded normally

7.1 did not record. It appears that the show on 4.1 recorded for an extra minute for some unknown reason, then at 9:00, apparently 2.1 started recording first, and 7.1 couldn't record due to both tuners being busy.

I've got the early/late settings to 0 and 0....

I have been reporting the issue where it does not record one show, but says that it did in the daily schedule. I have only seen this happen when I am watching live tv. Can you see the show in the DVR list before the later shows start?

I've got an NAD DVD player, and the manual does not list any NAD codes (except for TV's and they don't work). Am I out of luck?
You may want to look at this website, which is about programming remotes. I have a Radio Shack remote that I have reprogrammed to do multiple actions, and you can (using JP1) create codes. It is also a learning remote that can learn al the buttons on your dvd as well as dvrpal dvr. However, it has a code for dvrpal dvr already.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/

foxy2

Just wondering what the general consensus is on the latest F206 upgrade. Has the upgrade cured most of the issues everyone has been having? The bottom line, is it worth getting at the present time? I am very close to making the purchase but was wondering how the last couple of weeks has been for anyone that upgraded from F202. Thank you all in advance for your comments.

I say go for it. Any remaining issues are minor and nice to haves. A few have reported lockups and reboots but it looks like it working for most people. See http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pYDYqGZXx2sJafh5zbJ-OCQfor a brief rundown.

.... When I first started using DTVPal DVR (Note: Still no reboots here whatsoever with F201, F202 or F206) in Early January, it was the case that, IF I input a Cincinnati DMA Zip (such as the one I actually live in), I had TVGoS listings from WKRC's stream for both the Dayton+Cincinnati stations - Which was nice, and exactly the way I liked it ....

Well we can only hope it gets better since the last time I looked at it my analog TVGOS had listings for Cincinnati, Dayton, Richmond, Columbus and perhaps a few more so maybe once things settle they will start sending all the data. Perhaps not since digital seems to send the data much more frequently than the analog TVGOS they may be reducing the coverage to reduce the bandwidth required.

My current effort is to get WRGT-TV (FOX-45) to send more than a few hours of PSIP but I have not been able to get a response from their engineer to email (jlee@sdgnet.com) or telephone (937-263-4500).:(

The owner of the Sony Tv has confirmed my hypothesis - the TVGOS default OFF corresponds exactly to my missing stations (a few hours of PSIP data) and TVGOS default ON corresponds exactly to my working stations (full week's worth of program names and details).

....

What I don't understand is how the DTVPal DVR would decide which stations to set to on and which to set to off. Would it be based on your ZIP code? There are some indications that digital TVGOS may not include as many stations as analog to reduce bandwidth or something.

On my Panasonic DMR-E85 after a channel search it list all the stations and then you can turn off the ones you don't want but I don't think I have ever seen it find a station during a scan and then not include it in the initial guide listing.

An update on my replacement unit I have been using it for a week and the new one just decided to do the same thing as the previous one.

it is stuck at the Loading Please Wait..... Does not respond, Hard reset does not do anything. Talking with dish chat now will update. Hope this isn't a new problem I liked the rebooting a little better

Well Dish says that it has to be my fault it would be very unlikely that 2 units would have the same problem but as a connivence for me they will replace it again but this is the last time. I hate Dish network should have bought a Tivo

Well Dish says that it has to be my fault it would be very unlikely that 2 units would have the same problem but as a connivence for me they will replace it again but this is the last time. I hate Dish network should have bought a Tivo
Have you tried disconnecting HDMI?

That is exactly the problem I had last weekend. Below is the info Tim sent me, from post 4474. I followed this and it fixed my problem right away. Susie

This is the process that i used to fix mine. 1. unplug the antenna lead. 2. reboot the unit with the antenna feed unplugged. 3. After the unit reboots change the channel up or down one channel. 4.Go to the channel list and delete all channels on the list. 5. hook back up the antenna lead and do a channel rescan. That fixed mine and mine had the exact same symptoms that yours did. My opinion is that the channel that it was last tuned to had corrupt data and was causing the reboot loop. by unplugging the antenna feed it allowed the box to boot so you could access the menu screen. Hope this helps.

That is exactly the problem I had last weekend. Below is the info Tim sent me, from post 4474. I followed this and it fixed my problem right away. Susie

This is the process that i used to fix mine. 1. unplug the antenna lead. 2. reboot the unit with the antenna feed unplugged. 3. After the unit reboots change the channel up or down one channel. 4.Go to the channel list and delete all channels on the list. 5. hook back up the antenna lead and do a channel rescan. That fixed mine and mine had the exact same symptoms that yours did. My opinion is that the channel that it was last tuned to had corrupt data and was causing the reboot loop. by unplugging the antenna feed it allowed the box to boot so you could access the menu screen. Hope this helps.

I really hope it works for you.

1HD_addict and Zeke1975, we all get TVGOS from the same source and now I've got a recording problem tonight.

I set up 7.1 to record from 8:00 to 9:30 tonight. I also had 9 to 10 on 29.1 setup as I've tried to set up a weekly timer for "24". I'm not sure I've ever got a weekly timer to work but I was watching it closely this week to see why not. It was there yesterday when I set up the 7.1 timer.

I just turned my unit on a moment ago. The 7.1 timer was AWOL. The 29.1 timer was gone from Apr. 27, but it had rescheduled itself for May 4 and May 11th. Nothing was in "My Recordings" either. Time was correct.

The behavior of the "24" timer makes me think the clock was past 10pm sometime today (it seems to move ahead 4 hours when it goes off) then reverted back to correct. Since we get the time signal / tvgos from the same place, maybe it's tvgos that screwing up our units. Or perhaps it's the DTVpal firmware choking on the TVGOS data stream (which I am nearly certain why the DTVpal has missing channels in the guide that other tvgos device pickup no problem)?

After 5 days with my new PAL, i am pleased with my purchase so far. A few observations: I like the fact the unit surfs for new DTV stations, even though you have to manually delete the ones that are coming in occasionally from other areas. I am also please with the quality of the HD picture, which rivals the Vizio internal tuner. TVGOS seems to be populating the guide well, even showing listings for a .2 station which is out of my market.

My only complaint is the digital tuner, i get pixilation more often than the Vizio tuner, even on a close station with 100% signal straight. It may have more difficulty handling multi-path, I am receiving the hot signals on the back side of the Yagi, because i have the antenna directed to the stations 50 miles west.
I've had it for a few days too and I agree about the inferiority of the tuner. Both my Zenith DTT901 and Philips SD DVR have superior tuners. This is for stations which the DTVPal shows close between 90% and 100% strength. Quite honestly, I'm disappointed with the tuner.

That is exactly the problem I had last weekend. Below is the info Tim sent me, from post 4474. I followed this and it fixed my problem right away. Susie

This is the process that i used to fix mine. 1. unplug the antenna lead. 2. reboot the unit with the antenna feed unplugged. 3. After the unit reboots change the channel up or down one channel. 4.Go to the channel list and delete all channels on the list. 5. hook back up the antenna lead and do a channel rescan. That fixed mine and mine had the exact same symptoms that yours did. My opinion is that the channel that it was last tuned to had corrupt data and was causing the reboot loop. by unplugging the antenna feed it allowed the box to boot so you could access the menu screen. Hope this helps.

Tried unplugging HDMI but nothing different, Semwriter I am unable to change channels because it never comes off the loading please wait screen.. even with antenna lead disconnected. Tried countless hard resets, Unit will not respond to remote or do a soft reset and I am all out of incense. Is anyone here an exorcist because apparently my DVR's are getting possessed because dish network is known for their reliable hardware and its impossible for 2 units to have the same problem

Tried unplugging HDMI but nothing different, Semwriter I am unable to change channels because it never comes off the loading please wait screen.. even with antenna lead disconnected. Tried countless hard resets, Unit will not respond to remote or do a soft reset and I am all out of incense. Is anyone here an exorcist because apparently my DVR's are getting possessed because dish network is known for their reliable hardware and its impossible for 2 units to have the same problem

Did you get a new remote when you got your replacement? If it is the same remote, you might want to make sure that it is on the correct address. You can do this by holding down the 'pal' button until all the lights light up then release the button, then press '1' then '#' button. The light on top should blink 3 times.

Just a note to say that I have had absolutely no problems after downloading F206. There is, however, only one tiny irritant that F206 introduced. When two timers are scheduled for a contiguous period, i.e a 'DVR' recording on one channel and an 'Autotune' viewing on another, it will select the last timer for viewing even if it is a 'DVR' recording instead of the expected/desired 'Autotune' program. F201 did not do this - a 'DVR' recorded program never replaced a viewing program. Although irritating, I just grab the remote and hit "Recall" to return to the correct program.

Donald1800

Tried unplugging HDMI but nothing different, Semwriter I am unable to change channels because it never comes off the loading please wait screen.. even with antenna lead disconnected. Tried countless hard resets, Unit will not respond to remote or do a soft reset and I am all out of incense. Is anyone here an exorcist because apparently my DVR's are getting possessed because dish network is known for their reliable hardware and its impossible for 2 units to have the same problem

Did you try reading the posts just after your initial posts about your problem. Two people had suggestions of getting past your problem. Keep reading...

Are their any hidden service codes on the Pal DVR like the Sony DHG?

You may want to look at this website, which is about programming remotes. I have a Radio Shack remote that I have reprogrammed to do multiple actions, and you can (using JP1) create codes. It is also a learning remote that can learn al the buttons on your dvd as well as dvrpal dvr. However, it has a code for dvrpal dvr already.
I have a Universal remote, but wanted to use it elsewhere - plus the DVRPal has some nice direct access buttons and DVR controls in locations that I prefer. That said, it appears the remote that comes with it can't learn new codes. I can't find codes on the Dish website either.

I have a Universal remote, but wanted to use it elsewhere - plus the DVRPal has some nice direct access buttons and DVR controls in locations that I prefer. That said, it appears the remote that comes with it can't learn new codes. I can't find codes on the Dish website either.



If you don't mind geting an extra remote, take a look at Radio Shack 15-134. It has a button for every dtvjpal dvr remote button, as well as being a learning remote. No computer required. The setup code for the dtvpal dvr is 00775. The remote is $29.00, and is often on sale for $20.
foxy2

Tried unplugging HDMI but nothing different, Semwriter I am unable to change channels because it never comes off the loading please wait screen.. even with antenna lead disconnected.

Wildgillis, Are you going to a blank screen to finish the cycle? Or does it never leave "loading please wait?" Mine would give me that, then try to download the guide, then go black and repeat. When I tried disconnecting the antenna, I would get a channel instead of the black screen. That's where I adjusted it. But if yours is never going through a cycle, but just stays on Loading, then it must be something different. Susie

Wildgillis, Are you going to a blank screen to finish the cycle? Or does it never leave "loading please wait?" Mine would give me that, then try to download the guide, then go black and repeat. When I tried disconnecting the antenna, I would get a channel instead of the black screen. That's where I adjusted it. But if yours is never going through a cycle, but just stays on Loading, then it must be something different. Susie

It never goes thru the cycle just stays on loading And I have tried everyones suggestions but no go. UPS will get it tomorrow:mad:

If anyone needs more help with the Pal's 5.3 remote, search "DISH VIP722 guide" and check out Chapter 10 on remotes. Use 2 digits for Remote Channel assignments. The Pal guide doesn't give much info on the remote control. There's a lot of good information in Chapter 10 and the device codes are listed in the Reference. Visio TV code: 766.

I upgraded to F206 several weeks ago and the first week things were fine but then I started having problems. Recordings would have extra time added to them or end 15 minutes early (so for example only 15 minutes of a 30 minute timer would be recorded or only the first 45 minutes of a 60 minute timer would be recorded).

So I did a factory reset, scanned in all the channels again, redid all of the timers and now I'm having new problems. On a bunch of my timers, the unit changed the starting time by one hour, or two hours, or five hours. Then this morning, a new issue. I fixed the News Hour (PBS) recording start time, which the unit had reset from 5:59 to 6:59, back to 5:59. Then when I went to check the Nightly Business Report recording (same channel, starting at 6:59), and got to the last screen, and clicked on "Done" the unit hung. Sat there several minutes totally unresponsive to the remote, then rebooted. At this point the NBR recording had been deleted. I went in through the menus to add the recording back, and again on the last screen the unit hung and became unresponsive.

Anyone else having similar issues or have suggestions? Thanks.

Otaguy, there's lots of other posts on screwed up timers in F206. Just search back a few pages and you'll see them.

TVGOS update: got this from Macrovision today " ... The Echostar software sometimes has a problem reading the TV Guide data .... "

Pretty much what I thought. This is a logicial conclusion from the fact that stations I can't get data for appear on a TVGOS-enabled Sony tv.

Can I suggest that all of us that a) receive TVGOS and b) have data missing start clobbering DISH to fix this? Or at least admit it is a problem? :mad:

I tried an experiment yesterday. I rescaned and disconnected the antenna lead part way through. After the scan, I reconnected it. A bit later, I manually added the other channels. When TVGOS data finally loaded, the manually added channels which previously had TVGOS data did NOT get their data. That also sounds like a bug. :mad:

Otaguy, there's lots of other posts on screwed up timers in F206. Just search back a few pages and you'll see them.Yeah, I spent some time reading the last ten pages or so and noted a bunch of posts noting timer and clock issues with F206. For example, posts 4245, 4248, 4249, 4517, 4573, 4575, 4576, 4586. What I didn't see was anyone being able to fix these problems.

Note to bfdtv: First post is excellent. Can you add to "known issues" section that F206 sometimes adds extra minutes to recordings or ends recordings early and sometimes changes the starting time for recordings?

frank70 posted this over on the Philadelphia OTA discussion:

"SCTE-127 TVGOS data stream comes to Philadelphia!!
This post is of interest to (and may only be comprehensible to) folks with Gemstar/Macrovision TV-Guide On Screen (TVGOS) enabled devices. If you've never heard of TVGOS, stop here or be hopelessly confused

As of this morning, KYW-DT (3.1 in Philly) is including the TVGOS SCTE-127 data stream in addition to the TVGOS TVG1 data stream in their digital signal. In addition (since their analog programming is no-doubt derived by downconverting their digital programming to NTSC), KYW (analog 3 in Philly, still on the air until June) is transmitting analog TVGOS in its VBI.

Echostar/Dish DTVPal/TR40-CRA CECB owners, read on...

Furthermore (!), the DTVPal/TR40-CRA now passes along the SCTE-127 data stream in its VBI when it is in TVGOS mode (but not when it is in normal mode) and has been tuned to 3.1 while in TVGOS mode. Note that one cannot simply tune to 3.1 in normal mode, then use the menus to go into TVGOS mode, and expect the TVGOS VBI to be present. Once in TVGOS mode, the DTVPal MUST receive the Scientific Atlanta IR keycodes 1-3-1 (the codes to tune to 3.1 even though it may already be tuned to that channel) before the TVGOS VBI starts appearing on the analog output."

Does any of this affect the Pal DVR or is this just relevant to people using the Pal CECB or the Pal DVR to pass TVGOS data to analog TVGOS devices?

Timer problems are less dramatic than frequent reboots/lockups but no less serious. I still wonder how many of these problems that seem TVGOS related, in one form or another, will go away once analog broadcasting is shut down and broadcasters can spend all their time making digital work.

Agreed, but Dish shouldn't be using problems with the way TVGOS is being implemented as an excuse. Instead, they should be making their firmware capable of handling any TVGOS implementation problems thrown at it. My Philips 3575H doesn't have any of these timer problems and has worked flawlessly since I bought it almost two years ago. In retrospect it seems like Dish would have been better off designing a device with no guide at all since TVGOS seems to be causing lots of headaches.

Agreed, but Dish shouldn't be using problems with the way TVGOS is being implemented as an excuse. I was not aware that Dish was even acknowledging a problem let alone making excuses for it. So, how long do you think before F210.

I've been lurking for a while and went ahead and purchased a unit after reading people's good opinions of F206, but unfortunately I did it before the reports of the dead unit loading screen problem. :( Here's my story:

Got my unit on Monday (4/27) and hooked it up (HDMI). Double checked that the unit had F206 and it worked great out of the box. Set some timers to record a few shows and they worked great. The next day I watched a lot of the recorded shows and also watched the buffer of the current channel. I noticed that the TV Guide logo showed up (first day it wasn't there) but there was still some data missing in the guide (to be expected I guess after only one day).

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.

I was not aware that Dish was even acknowledging a problem let alone making excuses for it. So, how long do you think before F210.I had a chat session online today and the DrDish representative asked me a series of questions about which local stations I receive and which of them is the CBS affiliate and whether I receive more than one CBS station, and since CBS affiliates are the ones that provide TVGOS I'm assuming that that is why they are asking those questions and that is why I think Dish is aware that there are issues with TVGOS.

The frustrating thing is that lots of people seem to be very happy with their F206 units and are ordering more of them and recommending them to friends. So I don't know whether the problems I'm having are hardware related or are due to the fact that my unit is getting Philadelphia TVGOS. But my guess is that in addition to all of that there are still bugs in F206 and so yes there needs to be a F210.

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything.My F206 unit did that once also. Bfdtv, can you add that to the list of known issues with F206? Sometimes a F206 unit in standby won't come on until you unplug it and plug it in again and force a reboot.

I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that.This probably won't work because it sounds like your unit died a premature death and needs to be returned but, try unplugging and let it sit for 10 min to fully discharge before plugging back in. I have found, on the rare occasions I have locked up my TiVo with NetFlix and have to pull the plug, that if I don't wait at least 5 min before replacing the plug it won't boot.

I've been lurking for a while and went ahead and purchased a unit after reading people's good opinions of F206, but unfortunately I did it before the reports of the dead unit loading screen problem. :( Here's my story:

Got my unit on Monday (4/27) and hooked it up (HDMI). Double checked that the unit had F206 and it worked great out of the box. Set some timers to record a few shows and they worked great. The next day I watched a lot of the recorded shows and also watched the buffer of the current channel. I noticed that the TV Guide logo showed up (first day it wasn't there) but there was still some data missing in the guide (to be expected I guess after only one day).

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.

HA so I'm not crazy look back at my past posts I've had 2 units do the exact same thing waiting on Dish to send me my third. You will likely have to return your box to dish.

frank70 posted this over on the Philadelphia OTA discussion:

"SCTE-127 TVGOS data stream comes to Philadelphia!!
This post is of interest to (and may only be comprehensible to) folks with Gemstar/Macrovision TV-Guide On Screen (TVGOS) enabled devices. If you've never heard of TVGOS, stop here or be hopelessly confused

As of this morning, KYW-DT (3.1 in Philly) is including the TVGOS SCTE-127 data stream in addition to the TVGOS TVG1 data stream in their digital signal. In addition (since their analog programming is no-doubt derived by downconverting their digital programming to NTSC), KYW (analog 3 in Philly, still on the air until June) is transmitting analog TVGOS in its VBI.

Echostar/Dish DTVPal/TR40-CRA CECB owners, read on...

Furthermore (!), the DTVPal/TR40-CRA now passes along the SCTE-127 data stream in its VBI when it is in TVGOS mode (but not when it is in normal mode) and has been tuned to 3.1 while in TVGOS mode. Note that one cannot simply tune to 3.1 in normal mode, then use the menus to go into TVGOS mode, and expect the TVGOS VBI to be present. Once in TVGOS mode, the DTVPal MUST receive the Scientific Atlanta IR keycodes 1-3-1 (the codes to tune to 3.1 even though it may already be tuned to that channel) before the TVGOS VBI starts appearing on the analog output."

Does any of this affect the Pal DVR or is this just relevant to people using the Pal CECB or the Pal DVR to pass TVGOS data to analog TVGOS devices?

The DTVPal DVR can also pass TVGOS to analog devices, but you would loose all functions of the receiver, including DVR functions.

[QUOTE=cirnek;16364836]I've been lurking for a while and went ahead and purchased a unit after reading people's good opinions of F206, but unfortunately I did it before the reports of the dead unit loading screen problem. :( Here's my story:

Got my unit on Monday (4/27) and hooked it up (HDMI). Double checked that the unit had F206 and it worked great out of the box. Set some timers to record a few shows and they worked great. The next day I watched a lot of the recorded shows and also watched the buffer of the current channel. I noticed that the TV Guide logo showed up (first day it wasn't there) but there was still some data missing in the guide (to be expected I guess after only one day).

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.[/QUote

Since you are using a HDMI cable try leaving the TV at OFF then turn on the Pal DVR and then the TV. Could be a handshake problem with HDMI. I have had this happen a couiple of time, the first was when a changed to an HDMI cable.

In retrospect it seems like Dish would have been better off designing a device with no guide at all since TVGOS seems to be causing lots of headaches.

Have you tried disabling the TVGOS? You can do that with F206 now. It may require a reset, but I don't know that for sure since mine with F206 has been running flawlessly.

My F206 unit did that once also. Bfdtv, can you add that to the list of known issues with F206? Sometimes a F206 unit in standby won't come on until you unplug it and plug it in again and force a reboot.

I have found that when the DVR does not respond to the remote if I turn off the TV it will respond and then I can turn the TV on and control the DVR. Connection is HDMI but I have no idea why sending a TV control signal seems to wake up the DVR.

Have you tried disabling the TVGOS? You can do that with F206 now. It may require a reset, but I don't know that for sure since mine with F206 has been running flawlessly.Yes after I loaded F206 I've tried with TVGOS enabled and disabled and have had problems both ways.

The DTVPal DVR can also pass TVGOS to analog devices, but you would loose all functions of the receiver, including DVR functions.I never thought the functions were all that tight to begin with.

I've been lurking for a while and went ahead and purchased a unit after reading people's good opinions of F206, but unfortunately I did it before the reports of the dead unit loading screen problem. :( Here's my story:

Got my unit on Monday (4/27) and hooked it up (HDMI). Double checked that the unit had F206 and it worked great out of the box. Set some timers to record a few shows and they worked great. The next day I watched a lot of the recorded shows and also watched the buffer of the current channel. I noticed that the TV Guide logo showed up (first day it wasn't there) but there was still some data missing in the guide (to be expected I guess after only one day).

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.I'm sorry to hear of your problems, but welcome to the forum! Just to be sure, do you have the "Pal" button pressed on the remote? It would not be the first time someone thought they had a dead unit when that was the issue. Symptoms match yours...

I have continued to have the f206 freeze problem, but have managed to get past that point somehow. And my unit is being returned. But a question I have (retorical?) is "if you can't get past the freeze, how will you ever be able to update the software to F20x using the USB connection?"

The ethernet is with the unit on standby, and a lot of us don't have the connection.

Also, how can Dish claim it is the customer fault, unless they consider any one with the "same" freeze problem must be stupid.

My 2nd PAL DVR just arrived from Solid Signal -- delivered into my hands, actually.
It was in a shipping box that just fit (snugly) width by depth and about 4 inches taller with large "bubble"/air bags on top of the retail box -- NO DENTS in boxes! Thanks, FedEx! The DVR was in a large taped-up plastic bag with multi-language warnings on it -- not the sealed electronic bag with my first DVR in January.
Monday/20th: I ordered it and it was charged to my CC.
Tuesday/21nd: Got email from Customer Svc: not available, yet.
Wednesday/22nd AM: Shipping notice and subsequent tracking:
Date/Time Activity Location Details
Apr 25, 2009 12:21 PM, Delivered, Jacksonville, FL
Left at front door. Signature Service not requested.(my standing instructions, since I'm sitting at my computer/dining nook, with a good view out the window.)
Apr 25, 2009 7:44 AM, On FedEx vehicle for delivery
JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:22 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 7:03 AM, At local FedEx facility, JACKSONVILLE, FL
Apr 25, 2009 12:09 AM, In transit, NORCROSS, GA
Apr 24, 2009 11:04 PM, Departed FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 9:24 PM, Arrived at FedEx location, KENNESAW, GA
Apr 24, 2009 8:27 AM, Departed FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM, Arrived at FedEx location, TOLEDO, OH
Apr 23, 2009 9:18 PM, Left FedEx origin facility, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 6:44 PM Arrived at FedEx location, LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 2:04 PM Picked up LIVONIA, MI
Apr 23, 2009 11:25 AM Shipment information sent to FedEx
Super service from Solid Signal and FedEx.
Externally, everything looks okay. I noted the back sticker differences: Serial number similar to batch #2, but 4,607 higher.
M/B#1: RR67517T01256M
M/B#2(Newest): RR67517T01574M

The Smart Card was similar and 4,523 higher, discounting the last two digits at the end -- 36 (#1) and 58 (#2).

One thing different was two 1" pieces of ~5/8" plastic tubing, slightly flattened, loose in the bottom of the retail box -- ??
I don't have time to fire it up right now, but I'll look for any other differences when I do. The manual is the same, with no TV code listing for Visio -- 766, I believe, based on the DISH remotes.
Got the little package with the composite video and audio cables, 4 batteries, and a piece of coax... and the remote, of course.
I hope these DVRs both work and continue to do so. I've had no problems with the first one (from batch #2).
Wynn

I ordered from Solid Signal on 4/24 and received the unit today. The box looked like it has been re-taped though everything inside is sealed in bags.

Main Board Number is RR67517t01227M. There is a "QC Passed" sticker on the label. This number is lower than the first number posted above. I don't know if I should even break into the bags. I don't want a refurbished unit with a 90 day warranty.

Any experience out there with this?

I've been lurking for a while and went ahead and purchased a unit after reading people's good opinions of F206, but unfortunately I did it before the reports of the dead unit loading screen problem. :( Here's my story:

Got my unit on Monday (4/27) and hooked it up (HDMI). Double checked that the unit had F206 and it worked great out of the box. Set some timers to record a few shows and they worked great. The next day I watched a lot of the recorded shows and also watched the buffer of the current channel. I noticed that the TV Guide logo showed up (first day it wasn't there) but there was still some data missing in the guide (to be expected I guess after only one day).

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.

It's been posted many times here in the forum and you may already have tried, but press the DVR button on the remote. The green light flashes whenever a button is pressed on the remote even if it is in a mode other than DTV. Make sure you press the DTV button in order for the DTVPal to respond to remote commands.

I ordered from Solid Signal on 4/24 and received the unit today. The box looked like it has been re-taped though everything inside is sealed in bags.

Main Board Number is RR67517t01227M. There is a "QC Passed" sticker on the label. This number is lower than the first number posted above. I don't know if I should even break into the bags. I don't want a refurbished unit with a 90 day warranty.

Any experience out there with this?Incredibly, Dish seems to have no problem selling refurbished units as "New". I don't know how they can get away with this practice, but they are doing it. Here is a post I made some time back where I surveyed who had units with a "K" in the firmware version number. All of us had retaped boxes. On the other hand, these units have seemingly worked reasonably well.I finally got around to checking whether my unit was a "K" version or not, and it is! I'm one who received my DVR in a taped bag. I've gone through the posts to see what "K" units I can find:

Date Received|User|Firmware|Bootstrap|Taped Bag?|Double-Taped Box?|Reboots|Lockups
24 Dec 2008|SoonerTheBetter (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15638208#post15638208)|F202TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|Yes|2|0
~25 Dec 2008|PBFR270 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15671332#post15671332)|F201TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|?|0|0
26 Dec 2008|RegGuheert|F201TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|Yes|1|0
7 Jan 2009?|Nitewatchman (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15669546#post15669546)|F201TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|Yes|0|0
9 Jan 2009|C Clark (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15712827#post15712827)|F201TAKD-N|1001TAKD|Yes|Yes|0|0
23 Jan 2009|davezatz (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15635964#post15635964)|F202TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|Yes|0|0
27 Jan 2009|ecoman (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15702808#post15702808)|F201TAKD-N|1011TAKD|Yes|Yes|0|0

Some comments:

C1) It appears we have reported 7 "K" version units so far.
C2) It also appears that all "K" units came in boxes that were previously opened. I never noticed before, but mine has *3* pieces of tape on it. Perhaps it was shipped 3 times?
C3) These "K" units have not been reported to be problematic like some of the "L" units have been.
C4) It appears I have a "K" version unit while my brother, Chapelrun has an "L" version. Perhaps we can take a look at them someday to find out what is different.
C5) Some posters (jerrisn (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15636214&post15636214), fatandlazynot (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15640332&post15640332)) have also received "L" units in taped bags. In the case of jerrisn, it sounds like it was in a heat-sealed bag, but fatandlazynot has confirmed (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15714524#post15714524) that his unit came in the same type of bag as the "K" units, suffocation warnings and all.

Some questions:

Q1) Is it legal to sell used equipment as new product? (I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this.)
Q2) Does anyone else have a "K" in the Firmware Version and Bootstrap Version of your unit? You can find out at Menu->Setup(3)->System Setup(2)->System Information(3).
Q3) Can those mentioned in the table above provide any updates or corrections to the data I have compiled?

I will update the table above with more "K" Version units as they are provided.

Incredibly, Dish seems to have no problem selling refurbished units as "New". I don't know how they can get away with this practice, but they are doing it. Here is a post I made some time back where I surveyed who had units with a "K" in the firmware version number. All of us had retaped boxes. On the other hand, these units have seemingly worked reasonably well.

Unfortunately, the warranty states page 48 of manual New or re-manufacture parts" so I presume they consider the whole unit can be re-manufactured.
My unit has the main board number RR675171T03791M rec'd from Solid S in January, and ret'd to Dish for replacement. "New?" unit not rec'd yet.

And once again we have an example of Dish Network covering their posterior at the expense of the consumer.
They should be :o, but I doubt they are. :p

I'm sorry to hear of your problems, but welcome to the forum! Just to be sure, do you have the "Pal" button pressed on the remote? It would not be the first time someone thought they had a dead unit when that was the issue. Symptoms match yours...

It looks like RegGuheert was right. I SWEAR I didn't press the other buttons (TV, VCR, AUX) on the remote! :P So, I left the unit unplugged the whole day while I was at work. When I came home, I plugged the power back in (with the antenna still disconnected) and it did the same thing as I described before. I pressed the "pal" button on the remote and then the power button and the unit turned on. My wife gave me the "I can't believe you were about to return this thing out of user error" look of disgust.

I wish the unit would just turn on all the way instead of just going into standby after being reset/plugged in... Anyways, it looks like tvgos is gone now after being unplugged for so long. Don't see the logo in the guide anymore. I guess that's normal?

Unfortunately, the warranty states page 48 of manual New or re-manufacture parts" so I presume they consider the whole unit can be re-manufactured.
My unit has the main board number RR675171T03791M rec'd from Solid S in January, and ret'd to Dish for replacement. "New?" unit not rec'd yet.I'm not sure what the warranty statements have to do with this issue. I'm saying the FIRST unit I received from Dish had THREE pieces of tape on the box.

(...) Anyways, it looks like tvgos is gone now after being unplugged for so long. Don't see the logo in the guide anymore. I guess that's normal?
Yes, that's normal any time the unit reboots. Should be back within a few hours or minutes.

This morning (4/29) I tried to power up the dvr but it wouldn't do anything. I would see the green light flash indicating that it received the remote message, but nothing would happen. I unplugged it, waited 30 seconds, and plugged it back in. I saw "Please Wait. Loa" flash on the TV, go black with no signal, and then the full "Please Wait. Loading..." screen showed up for a few seconds. Then the TV went black again with no signal and it would stay like that. I tried disconnecting the antenna cable, and then doing the hard reset with the power plug, but the same thing would happen. It would never get to a point where I could change the channel up/down as posted by someone else earlier so I could delete and rescan all channels.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I start the return process with Dish? This sucks... It worked great for two days and then crap. Sigh.


It's been posted many times here in the forum and you may already have tried, but press the DVR button on the remote. The green light flashes whenever a button is pressed on the remote even if it is in a mode other than DTV. Make sure you press the DTV button in order for the DTVPal to respond to remote commands.

RegGuheert, Sorry about my post. I searched before posting my response to cirnek, but overlooked your earlier post covering his issue. I really do search before I post:o Besides I misspoke and said the DTV button instead of the pal button.

I have a unit received on Jan 20. It came with 201 and I immediately upgraded to 202 with usb. I had no real problems using 202. It froze once when I left a live show paused into the start of two scheduled simultaneous recordings. I had to unplug. It came back up as expected and even continued the recording it had started. (I had only seen one recording split in this manner at about the two month mark. The other scheduled recording on did not record even though there were indications in the guide and the channel info that it was being recorded.) I assume these indications must be flags. No recording was shown in the recordings folder. I upgraded to 206 about a week after it was available. I have had no issues since other than most of the firmware ones mentioned here. I have seen nothing to indicate that there is anything more than firmware anaomalies in my experience to date. I have had sound drop outs and pixelation due to signal strength fluctuation on some channels but that is minor where I am located in LA. (I had two recorded episodes that apparently had no sound when I initially viewed them. I returned later to watch with CC and the sound was present and intact.) All in all, I am very happy with the performance. I also have two Panasonic DVRs (DMR-EH85 and EH65). (I have a dtvPAL TR-40 slaved to the EH85 and apparently CBS just started digital TVGOS signal transmission yesterday. I was running it on manual timers to this point. The E65 was running analog until it quit receiving TVGOS data about a week or two ago. I switched it to manual timers until I can slave a TR-40 to it.) I would not buy another converter dvr. I now want a digital tuner non-converter version with digital antenna signal pass-through to another digital tuner (device). I think the current one was obsolete from the start though I happen to only have analog tvs. Since they all have composite inputs I never needed RF output and now wish it was digital since I have to split my signal because it dead-ends in a converter.

Oh I have had no reboots that I witnessed. I was never sure of the counters with f202 - I did have many power cycles - about 9 as I recall. I think my one split recording was caused by a power outage.

(I have a dtvPAL TR-40 slaved to the EH85 and apparently CBS just started digital TVGOS signal transmission yesterday. I was running it on manual timers to this point. The E65 was running analog until it quit receiving TVGOS data about a week or so ago. I switched it to manual timers until I slave a TR-40 to it.)CBS has been transmitting the TVGOS data over the digital channel (2.1) for a while, at least since I got my TR-50 in January. However, I read somewhere that some enhancement to the data was needed to allow the passthrough (like from TR-40 to EH85) to work, and maybe that's what got switched on yesterday. I really wish that the NBC data would be transmitted (or if transmitted, understood by the TR-50). You're correct that PBS seems to have switched off the analog TVGOS in L.A. within the last week or two.

CBS has been transmitting the TVGOS data over the digital channel (2.1) for a while, at least since I got my TR-50 in January. However, I read somewhere that some enhancement to the data was needed to allow the passthrough (like from TR-40 to EH85) to work, and maybe that's what got switched on yesterday. I really wish that the NBC data would be transmitted (or if transmitted, understood by the TR-50). You're correct that PBS seems to have switched off the analog TVGOS in L.A. within the last week or two.

Yes, you're right. That is what I meant since I talked to Panasonic before the original analog shut off date and they told me that the digital TVGOS that I was seeing on the digital DVR was not the required pass through data stream for an analog TVGOS device. And that CBS in LA was not going to broadcast this extra data until their analog signal was shut down. It appears the analog to digital TVGOS conversion has occurred in LA with the shut down of the analog data on PBS and now the required data stream for pass through to analog TVGOS devices has been initiated on CBS in addition to the existing data stream for digital devices. And I too find NBC curiously deficient in this area. I expect better of a national broadcast affiliate.

It looks like RegGuheert was right. I SWEAR I didn't press the other buttons (TV, VCR, AUX) on the remote! :P So, I left the unit unplugged the whole day while I was at work. When I came home, I plugged the power back in (with the antenna still disconnected) and it did the same thing as I described before. I pressed the "pal" button on the remote and then the power button and the unit turned on. My wife gave me the "I can't believe you were about to return this thing out of user error" look of disgust.
You may not have. I've seen cases where the Dish remotes forget what mode they're in. Usually the corresponding mode light blinks when buttons are pushed depending which mode the remote is in; but when it forgets, none of the mode lights blink.

Yes KNBC never has TVGOS data. I have to first tune to the channel, then about 4 hours of programming gets populated. There's no way to see what will be on channel 4.1 the next day via the DTVPal DVR. Channel 5.2 and 8.x are the same way, but those are low budget stations not a blue chip network like NBC.

It's very pathetic.

I just had a timer do a strange thing. I have a weekly timer set for 8:00-11:00 on Wednesdays for ABC (to get Lost, no matter what strange things ABC does with the schedule). This timer has been working flawlessly since Lost started this season except for one week (the ABC channel was off the air for a day or two).

I noticed early today that it had not recorded last night, and it didn't say skipped or anything in the history. (Fortunately I also record of a Dish satellite just in case, though it's only SD :(.)

Tonight my daughter was watching Clifford and came running to me saying something happened. I ask if it went black and she said yes. I though it may have rebooted (I think it was just the momentary black screen I see every now and then, but it's not a lockup or reboot). The time was 8:00pm and it was on the ABC channel recording. :confused: I didn't have it set to record tonight at 8:00 (though was set for 10:00-11:00 on ABC).

I first thought it decided to start that timer early, but no, that was still set to start at 10:00. It looked like it was doing Wednesday's 8:00-11:00 timer (on Thursday). I checked and it is set to record next Wednesday. So why it decided to change the timer by one day, I don't know.

A couple of times, I've had a timer switch to the next day. I figured I'd hit the wrong button or something. I am now VERY careful to always check what I have scheduled to record on a daily basis.

Lets say I want to record just the first hour of a two hour morning show (e.g. Good Morning America on ABC). If I go to the guide and select it, it'll (naturally) record the whole show. Is there any way to edit the timer or create some kind of manual timer. I looked through post #1 and what I read there (it refers to the case where there's no PSIP or TVGOS info and says there's no way to record such a show - admittedly not the same case) seems to imply I can't do it. If there's a way lets hear how. And, we can also add it to the excellent post #1. Fwiw, I do have TVGOS and the show is very definitely in my guide. I'd like to do this M-F every week and so am not looking for a one shot solution.

Lets say I want to record just the first hour of a two hour morning show (e.g. Good Morning America on ABC). If I go to the guide and select it, it'll (naturally) record the whole show. Is there any way to edit the timer or create some kind of manual timer. I looked through post #1 and what I read there (it refers to the case where there's no PSIP or TVGOS info and says there's no way to record such a show - admittedly not the same case) seems to imply I can't do it. If there's a way lets hear how. And, we can also add it to the excellent post #1. Fwiw, I do have TVGOS and the show is very definitely in my guide. I'd like to do this M-F every week and so am not looking for a one shot solution.

I use this technique to record a block of time but you likely could use it to shorten the time also.

Before the program starts, go to the TV schedule, highlight the program you want to record and then hit the record button. That will set the timer. Now highlight the program in the guide again and click enter, then edit and then next. That screen will allow you to set the recording length. Change it from 120 minutes to 60 minutes (I usually go from 60 to 120 or 180 plus a few minutes for padding).

I use this technique to record a block of time but you likely could use it to shorten the time also.

Before the program starts, go to the TV schedule, highlight the program you want to record and then hit the record button. That will set the timer. Now highlight the program in the guide again and click enter, then edit and then next. That screen will allow you to set the recording length. Change it from 120 minutes to 60 minutes (I usually go from 60 to 120 or 180 plus a few minutes for padding).

Perhaps it's something similar - I've discovered that after creating a timer you can go in and "edit" it. When creating it using the guide it does not give you the opportunity to edit; but, once created you can edit an existing timer. Selecting Edit and then Next lets you change the timer - shorten or lengthen. I suspect this way you can get two back to back programs with one timer - the only downside to this is I'm not sure how smart it's going to be when a program runs over because it starts late. I've heard various reports of the DVR being smart about a program starting late due to (say) Obama's speech and completely recording the programs scheduled after it even if they ran over.

I suspect this way you can get two back to back programs with one timer
Yup.

The only downside to this is I'm not sure how smart it's going to be when a program runs over because it starts late.
It hasn't ever figured out when American Idol runs over so I've missed the end of several different episodes of Fringe. :( I now add about 10 minutes to that timer.

Yup.


It hasn't ever figured out when American Idol runs over so I've missed the end of several different episodes of Fringe. :( I now add about 10 minutes to that timer.

This box only does timer based recordings, so if the time of a program changes by a few minutes (or hours) the machine records in the time slot originally set, regardless of any changes to the schedule. If you want something that 'moves' with the programs, you need a name based recording box.

Yes KNBC never has TVGOS data. I have to first tune to the channel, then about 4 hours of programming gets populated. There's no way to see what will be on channel 4.1 the next day via the DTVPal DVR. Channel 5.2 and 8.x are the same way, but those are low budget stations not a blue chip network like NBC.

It's very pathetic.

KNBC (4.1) is certainly fully represented (8 days) in the TVGOS listings on my Sony DHG-HDD250. I don't know why the DTVPal DVR would be different. If you're only getting a day or so of listings on any channel then you're not getting TVGOS at all but merely seeing the PSIP listings that each channel puts out individually.

You guys in L.A. sound like you are having the same problem I'm having. I get 24 OTA channels and people with Sony TVGOS-enabled tv's in my area see TVGOS data for all of them. I see data for less than half of them on my dvr. I've been bugging Dish for weeks on this, and just moments ago got the reply below (not sure I understand the first paragraph but the second sounds promising). It's the first hint that they might believe it's a problem.

Can I suggest others keep reporting these sort of issue to Dish so can get this fixed in a future firmare update?

Also note that my research is showing the data output from TVGOS is less than perfectly clean and complete, so you might want to check with Macrovision first if you can't verify it on a Sony or other TVGOS device.

I think Dish and Macrovision need to work closely for a resolution and not leave the customers caught in the crossfire.

The TVGOS gets its information from a 3rd party Tribune and the DTV Pal DVR only gets PSIP. The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the protocol used in the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast transport stream of a TV station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description. This could be why you are able to pick up more channels through your Television and not as many on the DTV Pal DVR.

We have sent the information below to our engineer department for further observation to work with our partners for a possible resolution. Unfortunately, we do not have a status report for this situation at this time We apologize again for any inconvenience this issue has caused and appreciate your time and patience with this matter.

KNBC (4.1) is certainly fully represented (8 days) in the TVGOS listings on my Sony DHG-HDD250. I don't know why the DTVPal DVR would be different. If you're only getting a day or so of listings on any channel then you're not getting TVGOS at all but merely seeing the PSIP listings that each channel puts out individually.Understood - if a channel is not fully populated (8 days) with program information, then it has defaulted to the channel-specific PSIP data covering several hours, but less than a day. That is what is happening with respect to channel 4.1 program information on the DTVPal DVR in Los Angeles. Other receivers are getting TVGOS data for 4.1, so we concluded that it's a problem with the DTVPal DVR. Why? Who knows, but the guess is another glitch in the software that uses the zip code to figure out what TVGOS data to capture (?) :confused:

BTW still otherwise perfect operation with F206 (ferrite cores and filtered power supply just for giggles).

I just sent the following email to Echostar tech:

"The TVGOS data for channel 4.1, the NBC primary station in Los Angeles, is not coming through on the DTVPal DVR, although it comes through on other TVGOS-enabled ATSC devices. Something in the DTVPal DVR is not recognizing this data. PSIP data is being displayed for this channel for about an 8-hour period."

I agree that we should all bug Echostar regarding particular missing TVGOS data in our areas after we confirm that other ATSC TVGOS-enabled devices are receiving the data.

You guys in L.A. sound like you are having the same problem I'm having. I get 24 OTA channels and people with Sony TVGOS-enabled tv's in my area see TVGOS data for all of them. I see data for less than half of them on my dvr. I've been bugging Dish for weeks on this, and just moments ago got the reply below (not sure I understand the first paragraph but the second sounds promising). It's the first hint that they might believe it's a problem.

Can I suggest others keep reporting these sort of issue to Dish so can get this fixed in a future firmare update?

Also note that my research is showing the data output from TVGOS is less than perfectly clean and complete, so you might want to check with Macrovision first if you can't verify it on a Sony or other TVGOS device.

I think Dish and Macrovision need to work closely for a resolution and not leave the customers caught in the crossfire.

Dish and Macrovision don't give a rat's ass about any resolution!!! That is wishful thinking!!!

Dish and Macrovision don't give a rat's ass about any resolution!!! That is wishful thinking!!!Maybe - but it doesn't cost much to send them emails . . . :D

Yes KNBC never has TVGOS data. I have to first tune to the channel, then about 4 hours of programming gets populated. There's no way to see what will be on channel 4.1 the next day via the DTVPal DVR. Channel 5.2 and 8.x are the same way, but those are low budget stations not a blue chip network like NBC.

It's very pathetic.

I have the same issue with the NBC affiliate in Austin, TX (all other networks fine, NBC only 12 hours). I emailed them and they confirmed that they are sending the TVGOS data to the appropriate source and the chief engineer was going to hook up his TVGOS device (a TV) to an antenna to see if it will pull their information over the weekend.

I have the same issue with the NBC affiliate in Austin, TX (all other networks fine, NBC only 12 hours). I emailed them and they confirmed that they are sending the TVGOS data to the appropriate source and the chief engineer was going to hook up his TVGOS device (a TV) to an antenna to see if it will pull their information over the weekend.

Only 12 hour data here on PBS and ABC in the Bay Area. Apparently no TV Guide data for those channels. All other channels are fine.

I have been reading a good chunk of this thread and it looks like this DVR is pretty buggy (duh!). But do you guys get the feeling that Dish seems to be working hard on fixing things and putting out fixes/releases? How committed are they to this product?

I think bugs are to be expected in such a new product and I am really excited about the idea of a no-subscription decent price DVR. So I would be willing to live through their "growing pains" and support the new guy (non-Tivo). So I am trying to figure out whether to buy this or not.

I think bugs are to be expected in such a new product and I am really excited about the idea of a no-subscription decent price DVR. So I would be willing to live through their "growing pains" and support the new guy (non-Tivo). So I am trying to figure out whether to buy this or not.

It works for the intended purpose so go get one imo. Granted there are a lot of tweaky thingys but it is only that most of us really like the units basic capabilities or we would not be playing beta tester to an almost ghost manufacturer and retailer. Mine just wont play the piano:)

Tvgos: Just picked up abc here. automatically on box 2 down the road 500 feet. It even picked up full 7 days guide for the primary abc channel. this adds to cbs primary and pbs primary and secondary 7 day guide.(no fox 7 day listing). Unit for odd reason was set to zip 97501 (Parent station city). Box 1 here with zip set to 97527 did not pick up abc by itself. had to add it. (signal strength was the same.) It did not, for 20 hours, pick up full guide. Changed zip to 97526 and guide was instantly there?? Doesnt seem right, so out of curiosity forced a reboot this morning. 7 day guide for cbs and pbs poped in within 5 minutes. No abc. tried 3 zips for about 5 min each but no full guide for abc yet. Am now at proper zip and waiting for guide to populate on its own.
It is annoying that tvgos does not work fully and consistently over time, but it is just that- annoying. I see nothing in tvgos mission statement that suggests it exists for us ota users. We are only seeing ota guide benefits from various interactive marketing expectations. From that-i can only expect that which i get out of it. Might even expect designed in nuances for ota dvrs?
No time/timer issues that i know of. Did have a couple of recorded items that seemingly disappeared but that was with only 2 of hours left on the drive and possibly having watched the show from the recording - dunno. Mostly this ota dvr is simple and plain works. Why we have to go to the wonderful avs forums to learn about it, is some stupid corporate mystery.

Have a future request addition that are on VCRs.

Having the option for Mon-Fri or Tue-Sat.

Tue-Sat for early morning (1am, 2am, etc...) as this is the schedule the programs are on.

Have a future request addition that are on VCRs.

Mon-Fri (or) Tue-Sat option for early morning (1am, 2am, etc...) as this is the schedule the programs are on.
There already is an option for Mon-Fri when setting a timer.

I think bugs are to be expected in such a new product and I am really excited about the idea of a no-subscription decent price DVR. So I would be willing to live through their "growing pains" and support the new guy (non-Tivo). So I am trying to figure out whether to buy this or not.


I just got the newly released box and could not be happier.

This box is no more buggy than any PC. Every once in a great wile it will do something strange, big deal! That is just a part of life to any one that has been on a computer. Sometimes the X's and O's just get mixed up.

I only get one bug that happens with some consistency. When setting a timer I will get the error that the program is already recording but it is not. I just reboot and it goes a way. I am sure future updates will address the consistent issues.

The only thing I had to do different in the set up is enter the zip of the local CBS tower location instead of mine to get TVGOS.

Other than that mine is working just fine and loving it!

There already is an option for Mon-Fri when setting a timer.


Sorry, meant having the option of Mon-Fri or Tue-Sat.

Tue-Sat for early morning scheduling.

Sorry, meant having the option of Mon-Fri or Tue-Sat.

Tue-Sat for early morning scheduling.
My mistake. You did say Early Morning, it just didn't register with me what you meant. :o

Sometimes the X's and O's just get mixed up.


I think you meant 1's and 0's :)

Mine has been rock solid since day 1 (December 26, 2008). No lockups or reboots. Sure there are some annoyances, but I've been able to do everything that is advertised.

Oddities with timer overrides:

So I have a weekly timer set for 7 pm on channel 13. Today, however, there is a NASCAR race I want to record, from 5 till 9. Here's what happens: I start the recording at 5 pm. All is well. At 5:48 the recording stops, in preparation for the timer to begin. I forego the 12 minutes. Then at 8 pm the recording stops as per the weekly timer.

So our lesson is that currently the timers override any manual recordings, even if they are coincident. Not a bad thing, just something we need to keep in mind.

Now the bad thing. I also have a weekly timer set for 10 pm on ch 7. A movie comes on from 7 pm to 10:05. I cannot record it. Since a timer overlaps with any part of the longer show, the entire show is marked as being recorded from 6:48(?) 'till 10:05, even though the timer is not scheduled to start for almost three hours.

Somebody probably mentioned these behaviors already. Feel free to report me to the Office of Redundancy Office.

Has anyone else in Milwaukee lost all TVGOS guide data? I have none since yesterday, and am now only seeing PSIP data.

My dvr is running F206 and every morning since purchased had to unplug and try again. This configuration was with TVGuide option turned ON. After holding the power button until boot, (~6-8 seconds), the unit still would not respond to the remote for 20 - 30 minutes, then all functions appeared to work ok. Last night I disabled the TV guide option and this morning the dvr powered up on first power press. The box still needed the 20 minutes or so to wake up and respond to the remote, but, at least a probable problem contributor (TVGOS) has been identified. My results and observations are being forwarded to tech@echostar.com with the setup configuration noted. Suggest to ALL that you forward any instance of a feature causing a problem when turned on and not a problem when turned off to tech as this will give them additional information that will help them give all of us a fix.... Right now I’ll live with limited TV guide info in trade for not unplugging my unit every morning. I will be investigating what responsibility ALL of the Digital stations have in regard to the information they supply via PSIP. IF PSIP information may be mandated by the FCC, then, look out locals who do not comply in furnishing valid, correct info for the 24 to 72 hours they may be held to. For all of the contributors who input this thread, noting the configuration of you setup will help everyone in their T/S efforts. Mine follows.

NEW BOX 4-26-09 CAME WITH F202
NOW RUNNING F206
COMPONENT OUT
TVGOS - OFF
INACTIVITY STANDBY - DISABLED

Again, forward problems and or apparent fixes to tech@echostar.com

The box still needed the 20 minutes or so to wake up and respond to the remote, .........

Was that a "no green light blink" response or "a green light blink" and no pal action even though it definitely be in he "pal" mode?

Was that a "no green light blink" response or "a green light blink" and no pal action even though it definitely be in he "pal" mode?

Green light on with no blink. Remote WAS in PAL mode. I sent all of this stuff to tech@echostar.com and maybe it will help.

Until the TVGOS issue is fixed, using the PSIP date will work for me. Although the presented PSIP information is yet to be complete on most channels, the following may spur the "station slackers" to get with the program...

RE: Wxxx PSIP "COMPLIANCE LEVEL" (Wxxx=your station to notify)

Your present presentation of program data is very minimal at best, with non-existent being the norm. When can ALL of your OTA viewers expect your TOTAL COMPLIANCE to this FCC REQUIREMENT????

Has anyone else in Milwaukee lost all TVGOS guide data? I have none since yesterday, and am now only seeing PSIP data.
My TVGOS data stopped being updated on April 25th.
Then yesterday the TV Guide logo disappeared.
My CBS station is in Springfield, Missouri though.

Green light on with no blink. Remote WAS in PAL mode. I sent all of this stuff to tech@echostar.com and maybe it will help.

No Blink is the pal not receiving the remote signal. Place the remote right next to the pal and it should work. Covering up the lcd screen may prove its interference to the remote. echostar may be able to do better but lcd interference is an old issue for many different remotes. It seems with my samsung lcd, even the picture mode options will have a huge difference in the amount of interference. Some have reported interference from florescence lighting.

The box still needed the 20 minutes or so to wake up and respond to the remote

Do you have an LCD TV?

It's well known that the backlighting on some LCD TV's when first turned on until the set fully warms up causes IR interference preventing some devices from responding to the remote.

Sony 46 xbr2 I'll check the power on tomorrow morning. Still don't think it is the problem, as the only thing changed was disabling the TVGuide.

Has anyone else in Milwaukee lost all TVGOS guide data? I have none since yesterday, and am now only seeing PSIP data.

Same here... no TVOGS here on the south side of Milwaukee.

I just had a timer do a strange thing. I have a weekly timer set for 8:00-11:00 on Wednesdays for ABC (to get Lost, no matter what strange things ABC does with the schedule). This timer has been working flawlessly since Lost started this season except for one week (the ABC channel was off the air for a day or two).

I noticed early today that it had not recorded last night, and it didn't say skipped or anything in the history. (Fortunately I also record of a Dish satellite just in case, though it's only SD :(.)

Tonight my daughter was watching Clifford and came running to me saying something happened. I ask if it went black and she said yes. I though it may have rebooted (I think it was just the momentary black screen I see every now and then, but it's not a lockup or reboot). The time was 8:00pm and it was on the ABC channel recording. :confused: I didn't have it set to record tonight at 8:00 (though was set for 10:00-11:00 on ABC).

I first thought it decided to start that timer early, but no, that was still set to start at 10:00. It looked like it was doing Wednesday's 8:00-11:00 timer (on Thursday). I checked and it is set to record next Wednesday. So why it decided to change the timer by one day, I don't know.

I've had 2 timer recordings not record in the last week as well. One of them was 24, the other was LOST. Both were on weekly timers and nothing had been edited by me or anyone else in the DTVPal...and the power hadn't gone out either. Just bizarre, as I'd have no other problems over the last couple of months.

Do you have an LCD TV?

It's well known that the backlighting on some LCD TV's when first turned on until the set fully warms up causes IR interference preventing some devices from responding to the remote.

Sony 46 xbr2 I'll check the power on tomorrow morning. Still don't think it is the problem, as the only thing changed was disabling the TVGuide.I had this problem with a Sharp LCD if it was set to automatic backlight level control - it caused my Sony DirecTV DVR remote to totally stop communicating with the DVR unless it was within an inch or two of the red window. Check it out on your Sony xbr.

I had this problem with a Sharp LCD if it was set to automatic backlight level control - it caused my Sony DirecTV DVR remote to totally stop communicating with the DVR unless it was within an inch or two of the red window. Check it out on your Sony xbr.

Somehow I was left out of the loop when this info was being passed around !! It IS my Sony 46xbr2 causing the PAL remote interferrence. I did hold the remote right next to the PAL and SOB, the remote worked fine. I did try the 00023 code, I believe this is the code for the Orlando,Daytona Beach, and Melbourne area for the TVGOS and no programming issues were seen this morning. I'll keep you'all posted of progress and concerns....

Hank

I just sent the following email to Echostar tech:

"The TVGOS data for channel 4.1, the NBC primary station in Los Angeles, is not coming through on the DTVPal DVR, although it comes through on other TVGOS-enabled ATSC devices. Something in the DTVPal DVR is not recognizing this data. PSIP data is being displayed for this channel for about an 8-hour period."

I agree that we should all bug Echostar regarding particular missing TVGOS data in our areas after we confirm that other ATSC TVGOS-enabled devices are receiving the data.

At very minimum, there should be something in the Diagnostics menu to report the TVGOS status. If tvgos is detected and PSIP is being used on some channels, it would be really useful to know why.

Like:

- station data not present in stream
- station present in stream but no listings data
- station conflict

Probably there are more reasons it couldn't load data.

In my case, point 1 is not true but I hear from my colleague that the "station is there but no listing" case has come up for him - not sure if that's a Macrovision thing or a station issue. He also reports he's seen multiple stations with the same channel number (eg. two 4.1s) so the device doesn't know what to pick.

It might also be nice if a TVGOS diagnostic screen could report things like last data load time, host channel, etc.

There also seems to be no way to turn off the tvgos time signal - the tvgos disable only diables the data is the guide. I'm still having issues with my clock going all weird on me but I can't manually reset it myself since it's grayed out due to tvgos. It's possible tvgos is causing it and there's no way to ignore it if it's wrong.

I have gotten around the clock being locked by:
1 - disable TVGOS.
2 - Reboot (or Format).
3 - set the clock as soon as it's done rebooting.
I did this yesterday and the clock stayed unlocked until I re-enabled TVGOS.

This morning I noticed the DVR clock (time gotten from TVGOS) was ahead by about 8 minutes - discovered it when turning it on to watch Good Morning America taped from earlier this morning and found lots of the tail end of the local news (as opposed to just two commercials) before GMA started.

Since the time was coming form TVGOS, there appeared to be no way for me to fix it. I ended up going through the setup wizard. At the end of the setup wizard the time appeared to be fixed. At least it showed the correct time. Of course, I lost all of my timers.

Questions:

1) Is there an easier way for me to "fix" the time?

2) Also: after the setup it still said time was from TVGOS - so I'm puzzled as to how it now had the "right" time from TVGOS whereas previously it had the "wrong" time from TVGOS. Any theories?

I have gotten around the clock being locked by:
1 - disable TVGOS.
2 - Reboot (or Format).
3 - set the clock as soon as it's done rebooting.
I did this yesterday and the clock stayed unlocked until I re-enabled TVGOS.

Seems like you posted the above the same time as my post #4672.

If you can provide more details as to how to achieve each step, it would be an excellent addition to post #1!

I went 10 days without a problem after switching to F206, had a freeze that made me restart by holding the power button 10 seconds, and have been 13 days without a problem since. If it came down to it, I could handle one reboot a month and be very satisfied with this product. If it remains this stable I will hopefully not be so paranoid that I feel compelled to check the counters every day or two to see if a reboot occurred. That will be how I will measure success-not having to worry about the product functioning properly, especially when my family is using it and I am not home to deal with it myself. I am definitely feeling more comfortable with the stability and am glad that I made the purchase. For now you can put me in the satisfied customer category - but I didn't deal with DISH after my order by phone, so it may have helped that I didn't get some of the frustration that others experienced.

I've had 2 timer recordings not record in the last week as well. One of them was 24, the other was LOST. Both were on weekly timers and nothing had been edited by me or anyone else in the DTVPal...and the power hadn't gone out either. Just bizarre, as I'd have no other problems over the last couple of months.

I've also had a problem with some missed timers. What I found was that one of my tuners was locked on an earlier recording. I discovered this by going to the guide and setting up to record a show in progress, then once it started recording, going back to the guide and selecting another show to record. If that doesn't work, you might have the same problem. You might see a message flash on the screen for a very short time when you try to do this (not long enough to read the text). The message can be read if you tune to a station with no signal. The message allows you to stop recording the show that the tuner is locked on. It's strange though, because it's not really still storing data, only the tuner thinks it's supposed to be recording.

By the way, I received my box in late February with F201 and have not yet updated because I've had no reboots and few problems other than this one, and this one hasn't recurred.

If you don't mind geting an extra remote, take a look at Radio Shack 15-134. It has a button for every dtvjpal dvr remote button, as well as being a learning remote. No computer required. The setup code for the dtvpal dvr is 00775. The remote is $29.00, and is often on sale for $20.
foxy2

Thanks for mentioning the Radio Shack remote. I bought one last week after reading your post. I like to stash my original remotes and use a learning remote. My Sony RM-VL600 has taken on many challengers and has come out on top until now. The Sony dosen't have enough buttons to be ideal for dvr devices, so I was always looking.

The RS remote works good with my Magnovox 2160 also and has a strong LED. The only thing I don't like about it is my old(er) eyes can't read the small print on the buttons themselves. I used a little flashlight for the first couple of days and now I have the buttons figured out.

so of the people who received their new pal with F206 preinstalled, has anyone had any of the problems that the people upgrading to F206 from older software are having like the time problem? Has anyone opened up one of the new units to see if anything has changed inside since they started shipping them again? I have been trying to keep up with the new posts as much as possible and as far as I can see the only people having trouble are the ones who upgraded from older software. I also remember seeing where someone had tried a 1TB hard drive, but don't remember anything mentioned about any hardware changes being made to the unit it's self. I have been on the fence about getting one of these since they first came out and am now about buy one since it looks like the bugs have been worked out of the new units, but what to make sure I have all my facts right.

so of the people who received their new pal with F206 preinstalled, has anyone had any of the problems that the people upgrading to F206 from older software are having like the time problem? Has anyone opened up one of the new units to see if anything has changed inside since they started shipping them again? I have been trying to keep up with the new posts as much as possible and as far as I can see the only people having trouble are the ones who upgraded from older software. I also remember seeing where someone had tried a 1TB hard drive, but don't remember anything mentioned about any hardware changes being made to the unit it's self. I have been on the fence about getting one of these since they first came out and am now about buy one since it looks like the bugs have been worked out of the new units, but what to make sure I have all my facts right.

I would say "no news is good news" when it comes to this machine. I haven't heard people complaining about chronic lockups and reboots like they used to.

I've got both a first generation(upgraded to F206) and a second generation(came with F206 installed) box and they seem a lot more stable than the old box with the earlier firmware. I can't tell any operational differences or bugs between the two units. Alot of the little annoyances that weren't that big of a deal are fixed and I haven't needed to use any of the workarounds that I used to use to keep unit stable. I just use it.

I didn't open either up to check hardware. I plan on upgrading my hard-drive on my old box in a couple of weeks. If opening the case is painless, I might open up the new box.

I have PSIP only, updates are disabled, and I don't add minutes to my scheduled recordings.

It appears that Dish is serious about seeing this thing through. Either that or they had a crapload of boxes still in the warehouse and stopped selling them until they got alot of the bugs worked out. If the latter, they would of had to open all the boxes(cardboard boxes units are packed in) and update to F206. Which would help explain the tape and loose bags they came shipped in. This is a mysterious little machine.

Having said all that, I would highly recommend the Pal. It's pretty lean and mean.

Actually - there's two ways Echostar could have updated -
use the ethernet in house
or
use the USB update.

Either one would work well.

Actually - there's two ways Echostar could have updated -
use the ethernet in house
or
use the USB update.

Either one would work well.

When I said open up the boxes, I meant the white and red boxes that the pal came packed in. Sorry about that. I see where it could be confusing the way I said it. Especially since I already used "box" to describe the Pal itself. I'll edit.

Yeah, I spent some time reading the last ten pages or so and noted a bunch of posts noting timer and clock issues with F206. For example, posts 4245, 4248, 4249, 4517, 4573, 4575, 4576, 4586. What I didn't see was anyone being able to fix these problems.


I, too, have been frustrated with the clock changing problem. I have one of the very early DTVPal DVRs (ordered the day after it became available) which came with F201. I applied F202 and it had behaved well, other than one freeze (requiring a power cycle). After hearing all the good reports about F206, I decided to upgrade to it. F206 has been stable for me with one significant exception: The clock has a tendency to randomly jump ahead or behind around five or ten minutes. I have TVGOS enabled and prior to F206, the clock was solid as a rock. It never jumped or drifted.

To get around this, I don't record programs via the guide. Rather, I record using timers. I set each timer to start 15 minutes before the actual start time, and end 15 minutes after the end time. It's annoying, but so far the method has served me well. Hopefully, Dish will fix this problem in the near future! Other than that, I am a satisfied customer.

so of the people who received their new pal with F206 preinstalled, has anyone had any of the problems that the people upgrading to F206 from older software are having like the time problem?

I got a new unit. I have TVGOS. I've had the unit a little over a week. And, it definitely has the time problem and has messed up recordings.

I've also noticed that when I pause and then hit the play button (or pause button again, but normally it's the play button), I don't hear the audio for approx 1-2 seconds. I'm connecting via composite and stereo audio (yellow, red and white cables). Irritating to say the least.

(...) I've also noticed that when I pause and then hit the play button (or pause button again, but normally it's the play button), I don't hear the audio for approx 1-2 seconds. (...)
Mine has always done that, with F201 and F206. I think it's normal.

Mine has always done that, with F201 and F206. I think it's normal.

I disagree. A quality DVR should not have missing audio for 1-2 seconds once you resume from pause. I'd hardly call it normal. I'm glad that I'm not the only one with this problem :-). I'd sent a private message to one other person and he said his did not have the issue, which made me wonder if I had a defective unit. Are Chuck44 and myself the only ones experiencing missing audio (1-2) seconds after resuming from a pause when playing back a recorded program. Anyone else?

Fwiw, with my Philips SD DVR, when I resume from pause I get both audio and video right away.

I disagree. A quality DVR should not have missing audio for 1-2 seconds once you resume from pause. I'd hardly call it normal. I'm glad that I'm not the only one with this problem :-). I'd sent a private message to one other person and he said his did not have the issue, which made me wonder if I had a defective unit. Are Chuck44 and myself the only ones experiencing missing audio (1-2) seconds after resuming from a pause when playing back a recorded program. Anyone else?If HDMI direct to your TV (and TV speakers), make sure the DTVPal DVR is set to PCM audio output.

If you are using a Dolby Digital receiver, some lock on to signals faster than others.

I disagree. A quality DVR should not have missing audio for 1-2 seconds once you resume from pause. I'd hardly call it normal. I'm glad that I'm not the only one with this problem :-). I'd sent a private message to one other person and he said his did not have the issue, which made me wonder if I had a defective unit. Are Chuck44 and myself the only ones experiencing missing audio (1-2) seconds after resuming from a pause when playing back a recorded program. Anyone else?

Fwiw, with my Philips SD DVR, when I resume from pause I get both audio and video right away.
What I meant was, I believe it's normal behavior for this machine.
My Philips 3575 gets the sound instantly after pause too...

Does anyone know if the 8.0 UHF Pro (123214) remote will operate the DTVPal DVR? If so, what is the procedure to program and what mode(s) will work?

Does anyone know if the 8.0 UHF Pro (123214) remote will operate the DTVPal DVR? If so, what is the procedure to program and what mode(s) will work?The DTVPal DVR does not accept UHF signals. It uses the same IR signals as other Dish Network DVRs.

Instructions to program the AUX button for the DTVPal DVR are found in the first post.

If HDMI direct to your TV (and TV speakers), make sure the DTVPal DVR is set to PCM audio output.

If you are using a Dolby Digital receiver, some lock on to signals faster than others.
No, this is with composite and stereo audio. This is with the supplied RCA cable - thick yellow one for video and red and white for stereo audio. Direct from the DVR to the TV. I can't imagine there are many who have connected an older analog TV like mine (has component inputs but cannot handle the 480p that the DVR puts out) - I don't recall it being reported before and it was a big disappointment when I first got it. Perhaps you could add it to the issues section?

I have gotten around the clock being locked by:
1 - disable TVGOS.
2 - Reboot (or Format).
3 - set the clock as soon as it's done rebooting.
I did this yesterday and the clock stayed unlocked until I re-enabled TVGOS.
Ok, I've gone through the various menus and sub-menus after having pressed the Menu button and I must be missing something obvious. How do you disable TVGOS? Is this by putting 00000 in your Zip code?

Ok, I've gone through the various menus and sub-menus after having pressed the Menu button and I must be missing something obvious. How do you disable TVGOS? Is this by putting 00000 in your Zip code?
Menu, Preferences, Guide Display.
Be advised, I tried it again yesterday and it never released the clock even after doing a Format.

On a brighter note, as of 6 AM CDT TVGOS in my area is back up & running great. :)

Menu, Preferences, Guide Display.
Be advised, I tried it again yesterday and it never released the clock even after doing a Format.

On a brighter note, as of 6 AM CDT TVGOS in my area is back up & running great. :)

You'd previously mentioned trying a Reboot. So both the Reboot and Format had no effect on releasing the clock?

You'd previously mentioned trying a Reboot. So both the Reboot and Format had no effect on releasing the clock?
That is correct, even though it had worked the other day. :confused:

That is correct, even though it had worked the other day. :confused:

So, other than going through the whole setup process (no big deal) and losing all your timers (big deal) we know of no known to work way of fixing the "DVR has invalid time set on it and is locked to TVGOS and so the clock cannot be manually reset" issue?

If that is so, bfdtv, can you add a note to issue #2 that stresses there is no known way (other than redoing the setup and losing all your timers) to reset the clock? Hopefully, Echostar will see that and at least provide a manual way to set the clock since we live in an imperfect world.

I hope everyone is reporting their F206 wandering clocks issues to Echostar too. I sent them another email on this yesterday as I had 3 instances of it moving backwards by 4 hours and 5 minutes (ie. at 8:30 EDT, it showed 4:25pm). I had been operating smoothly for a couple of weeks. If Echostar is going to blame TVGOS or local stations (which may be true), they need to at least provide a means for us to fix it.

This reminiscent of the lockup/reboot pattern in F202. I prefer time screw ups to lockup/reboots, but neither is an acceptable solution.

I didn't know simply placing a usb stick in the dtv pal places a diag.txt of the uptime counters on it. Each time you insert the stick it appends the text with another diagnosis info.
Where this box had a lot of reboots before f206 only have had one of the weird glitch variety last night. While recording 2 and watching both from the recordings in progress and using trick functions a bunch....., box went into reboot and recovered gracefully as always. I think it happened right as i hit the fast reverse button from fast forward but don't really know just the function i was in previous to hitting the reverse button?
Heres what the last entry in the diag.txt file looks like. I will send it to echo star but am unconcerned and only print this to add to the mix. Nothing has to be done to get this file on the usb stick other than place it in the dvr.
HDD Information

SMART status: (0x00) PASS OR NOT RUN
Last DST Result: 0x00 NOT RUN
Hard Drive Info: 0x6032
Hard Drive Error Count: 0

Reset Information

Software ID : F206TALD-N
Software csum : 8773D203
Seconds since boot : 38740
Power cycles total : 4
Exceptions total : 1

Cold boot count : 4
Warm boot count : 0
Timeout count: 0
Watchdog count : 0
System up count : 4
Last recorded reason : NULL

Reset history items : 1

No of Power Cycles since : 0
Reset box time : 60:47:57
Reason : read (5)
True Reason : 0x00000040 (64)
Address of Occurrence : 0x00000048
Stack Pointer at Exception : 0x8651F580
Link at Exception : 0x849A552C
Program Counter : 0x849A5542
Thread : STVID[0].De
Code csum : 8773D203-EA4369BC
Cache errs : i:0 d:0
Stack Corruptions : 0

Version Information

BSLID : 1011TALD
SWID : F206TALD-N
RecID : R1880051522-38
Model : DTVPal DVR
PsID : 01BE462D

Again, this is not concerning to me as the unit is heavily used and only this glitch in about a month of time. I am seeing no misbehavior on the time clock of the unit from tvgos. It has stayed within seconds of where i set it the first time.
Any slight delay of sound start has been unnoticeable for me. I just tried it and the sound restart delay from both skip and fast forward is barely a fraction of a second so no concern to me. On occasion the sound will totally be gone on "play" from some trick function. It always comes back from a stop/play combo. too infrequent to be annoying tho.

So, other than going through the whole setup process (no big deal) and losing all your timers (big deal) we know of no known to work way of fixing the "DVR has invalid time set on it and is locked to TVGOS and so the clock cannot be manually reset" issue?

If that is so, bfdtv, can you add a note to issue #2 that stresses there is no known way (other than redoing the setup and losing all your timers) to reset the clock? Hopefully, Echostar will see that and at least provide a manual way to set the clock since we live in an imperfect world.
FWIW, for the 1 1/2 weeks TVGOS was not working in my area, my clock was running 15 seconds slow most of that time, except once when it was half a minute fast.
This was with TVGOS enabled, and with the TV Guide logo showing, but no data updates from April 25 to May 2, then no TV Guide logo from May 2 to May 4.
This morning the problem is fixed (full 8 days of programming and TV Guide logo showing) and the clock is perfect.
I'm sure the clock drifting (at least in my case) was TVGOS related.

Is anyone out there just using PSIP (having TVGOS disabled), and if so, are you having problems with the clock resetting itself to a wrong time?

Also I believe that I might have discovered a method to reset the clock after it wandered to a wrong time. I had TVGOS enabled, it wandered to a wrong time, I disabled TVGOS, went in and changed from Central to Mountain time. It did not like this and gave me an error msg. as I live in a CST area (Austin, TX). Changed it back to Central and then clicked Done. The clock was reset to the right time as a result. I then re-enabled TVGOS which stayed set to the correct time.

So maybe this is a workaround, or maybe purely a coincidence that TVGOS decided to reset its clock to the correct time exactly when I was changing CST, and what I did really had no effect at all? I will be curious to try this same routine the next time that my clock wanders to see if I get the same results.

I hope everyone is reporting their F206 wandering clocks issues to Echostar too. I sent them another email on this yesterday as I had 3 instances of it moving backwards by 4 hours and 5 minutes (ie. at 8:30 EDT, it showed 4:25pm). I had been operating smoothly for a couple of weeks. If Echostar is going to blame TVGOS or local stations (which may be true), they need to at least provide a means for us to fix it.

This reminiscent of the lockup/reboot pattern in F202. I prefer time screw ups to lockup/reboots, but neither is an acceptable solution.

I believe we both get TVGOS from the same place - PBS WNED channel 17.
My clock is accurate to the second ever since TVGOS started. I have updated to F206 and have not had any issues with the clock. Are you getting perfect reception from that station?

I would say "no news is good news" when it comes to this machine. I haven't heard people complaining about chronic lockups and reboots like they used to. I ended up sending my F206 (updated fromF201) unit back to Dish. Yes, F206 largely solved the rebooting issue that caused me to send my first unit back. But after I updated to my second unit to F206 I was having so many problems with timers changing start times by an hour or two hours or five hours that the unit became essentially unusable and I sent it back. I'm hoping I just had a bad box and that a replacement will solve the problem as opposed to something being screwy with how TVGOS is implemented in Philadelphia.

I know it has been posted before but I just can't seem to find it....
So, if someone could post the procedure for changing the remote address I would greatly appreciate it.
TYIA.

I know it has been posted before but I just can't seem to find it....
So, if someone could post the procedure for changing the remote address I would greatly appreciate it.
TYIA.That's under Using the DTVPal DVR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A4), #12 in the first post.

I've be meaning to update the FAQ with some of the suggestions made in the past week. I'll try to get to that in the next day or two.

I know it has been posted before but I just can't seem to find it....
So, if someone could post the procedure for changing the remote address I would greatly appreciate it.
TYIA.

Step 1: Go to the System Information screen by pressing the 'Sys Info' button.
Step 2: Hold down the 'Pal' button until all the function lights flash.
Step 3: Enter the number for the new address (1-16) and press the '#' button.
Step 4: Press the 'Record' button. The new remote address should now be showing on the bottom of the system information screen.

I hope everyone is reporting their F206 wandering clocks issues to Echostar too. I sent them another email on this yesterday as I had 3 instances of it moving backwards by 4 hours and 5 minutes (ie. at 8:30 EDT, it showed 4:25pm). I had been operating smoothly for a couple of weeks. If Echostar is going to blame TVGOS or local stations (which may be true), they need to at least provide a means for us to fix it.

This reminiscent of the lockup/reboot pattern in F202. I prefer time screw ups to lockup/reboots, but neither is an acceptable solution.

Does anyone have a clue whether it is the DVR or TVGOS. My guess would be that the DVR is just reporting the TVGOS time. Perhaps in 206 they are updating the time more often based on the TVGOS input.

Other than a reboot the first day that was one hour earlier than the default update time which may have been timer (DST) related I have not observed any time problems.:)

Step 1: Go to the System Information screen by pressing the 'Sys Info' button.
Step 2: Hold down the 'Pal' button until all the function lights flash.
Step 3: Enter the number for the new address (1-16) and press the '#' button.
Step 4: Press the 'Record' button. The new remote address should now be showing on the bottom of the system information screen.

Thanks.

.... I will send it to echo star but am unconcerned and only print this to add to the mix....

Yes, please do. This confirms my suspicion that Echostar has inserted code to phone home with this info after a fault so if you have a fault, connect to the internet or insert a USB flash drive and email the contents.

This confirms that the DVR can write to the USB port so the next step could be the external drive some have expressed interest in.

Interesting that the reason code was NULL.

I know it has been posted before but I just can't seem to find it....
So, if someone could post the procedure for changing the remote address I would greatly appreciate it.
TYIA.

It is also in the manual.

A caveat on the manual however. A lot of people seem to be confused by the section on TVGOS. Ignore it and use your real ZIP code as per post 1. The stuff described in the TVGOS section is for a function that no one can envision using with the DVR. It is used to enable using an analog TVGOS enabled DVD recorder to record digital signals.

When you change the remote's address, use TWO digits for the address, ie. 03. Use a leading zero for 1-9.

I believe we both get TVGOS from the same place - PBS WNED channel 17.
My clock is accurate to the second ever since TVGOS started. I have updated to F206 and have not had any issues with the clock. Are you getting perfect reception from that station?

Yup, and I get perfect reception. That seems like evidence that it's my unit that's screwed up (or maybe you are just luckier than me.) :D

The last time it happened last night I just said the heck with it and starting watching and about 5 minutes later it suddenly self corrected. I think I hit the "live tv" button and it displayed the "bad" time for a couple of seconds then flipped back to the right time as I looked at it. I'm now suspecting it isn't TVGOS - just seems too coincidental that they'd fix it the same time I'm looked at it. :confused:

I hope everyone is reporting their F206 wandering clocks issues to Echostar too. I sent them another email on this yesterday as I had 3 instances of it moving backwards by 4 hours and 5 minutes (ie. at 8:30 EDT, it showed 4:25pm).

I'm sure it's been mentioned here before ... What address do you use to report such problems? Do you get any acknowledgment from them - e.g. a case number / issue # ? Do you provide details about your machine (e.g. serial number etc)?

I ended up sending my F206 (updated fromF201) unit back to Dish. I'm hoping I just had a bad box and that a replacement will solve the problem as opposed to something being screwy with how TVGOS is implemented in Philadelphia.

I think this issue extends far beyond your one box. I have a new DTVPal which I've had for a week and another which I've had for a couple of months -- BOTH have exhibited the "wandering clock" over the last few days, and I'm running F206 on both. Prior to that, I hadn't had any issues at all with the DVR I've had for a couple of months, and now the "wandering clock" has afflicted that one too. Looks like either something is screwy in the TVGOS system or, more likely, there's an issue with F206. I'd say this is shaping up to be a widespread one from the amount of posts we're now seeing here.

It also seems like it's happening more and more frequently as well. I had an issue recording AMERICAN IDOL and 24 over the last two nights (both started three minutes late), and another show I set to record Sunday never even started because the clock jumped ahead an hour!

Does anyone know if/when this DVR will go back to the MSRP price of $300, I thought the "$50 instant rebate" might be pre-purchase pricing, or will it remain at $250? I will rather wait a little while things get a little more stable.

I have two with F206 and the clocks are perfect...I think the problem is going to be external to the DVR...data it receives or something.

I have my DVR for ten days now. Initially, I had the clock issues that some have experienced. It stopped when I completed the installation setup steps that are related to time such as time zone, DST query, pre-start time minutes and post end time minutes. Be sure that these are filled out correct.

I do not have TVGOS in my area.

I have two with F206 and the clocks are perfect...I think the problem is going to be external to the DVR...data it receives or something.Well, yes and no. From this thread it sounds like quite a few people are not having the clock / timer problems while others are. So one possibility is that the stations in certain parts of the country are sending out better time information in their streams than stations in other parts of the country, and that erroneous time information being broadcast by stations is messing up the Pal DVR.

On the other hand, my standard def Philips 3575H, which I've had for almost two years, has never had these clock and timer problems. And it is receiving the same streams from the same stations that the Pal DVR is receiving. So my conclusion is that the Pal DVR clock and timer issues could be solved with improvements to the firmware.

I think this issue extends far beyond your one box.You may well be right and it may turn out that the replacement Dish sends for the F206 box I returned will have the same issues. But my box was changing the start time for News Hour by a full hour every day or every other day, causing me to miss recordings and making the device more trouble than it was worth. I'm hoping that by sending my unit in for a replacement and sending them a copy of the detailed chat session I had with tech support discussing the problems that this will get the attention of the firmware people and they will get cracking on a solution.

You would think Dish would have their engineers monitoring this thread to glean information about problems with the unit but that may be wishful thinking. Generally if you are a manufacturer, no units being returned under warranty equates to satisfied customers, so if we the user community want to get the F206 clock and timer issues fixed some of us are going to have to bite the bullet and send units back for replacement.

(...) On the other hand, my standard def Philips 3575H, which I've had for almost two years, has never had these clock and timer problems. And it is receiving the same streams from the same stations that the Pal DVR is receiving. (...)
I respectfully disagree.
I too own a Philips 3575 and it can not possibly receive the same time signal as the Pal DVR.
The Pal only receives ATSC (digital) signals, and the Philips can only set its time from a NTSC (analog) source.
I've been hoping Philips would release a fw update to allow auto time set via digital stations, but no such luck.
Since all but one of my local stations have shut down their analog broadcasts (all except the NBC station)
my Philips can no longer set the time automatically.

uh-oh, I hope my Philips 3575 still works come June 12. But I would think that if it can no longer set time automatically you can still set time manually, and that it will still record programs properly based on the manually set time. The problem with the Pal DVR seems to be that it is overriding the time without any option for preventing that from happening.

uh-oh, I hope my Philips 3575 still works come June 12. But I would think that if it can no longer set time automatically you can still set time manually, and that it will still record programs properly based on the manually set time. The problem with the Pal DVR seems to be that it is overriding the time without any option for preventing that from happening.

No reason why it shouldn't work past June 12. My Philips 3576 works with the clock set to manual and is flawless. Wish the DTV Pal would have such a feature (besides the part about being flawless).

Is anyone out there just using PSIP (having TVGOS disabled), and if so, are you having problems with the clock resetting itself to a wrong time?

Also I believe that I might have discovered a method to reset the clock after it wandered to a wrong time. I had TVGOS enabled, it wandered to a wrong time, I disabled TVGOS, went in and changed from Central to Mountain time. It did not like this and gave me an error msg. as I live in a CST area (Austin, TX). Changed it back to Central and then clicked Done. The clock was reset to the right time as a result. I then re-enabled TVGOS which stayed set to the correct time.

So maybe this is a workaround, or maybe purely a coincidence that TVGOS decided to reset its clock to the correct time exactly when I was changing CST, and what I did really had no effect at all? I will be curious to try this same routine the next time that my clock wanders to see if I get the same results.

BoogityShoes, My clock problems stopped after I disabled TVGOS and contacted two local stations about their incorrect PSIP time. They promised to look into the matter and evidently they did, because I now have correct time listed on PSIP guide. This incorrect time was seen on my television also ( not using the DTVPal DVR just TV). So I seemed to had two problems at the same time. The Pal DVR continued to wander about until I disabled TVGOS. At present and for the last three weeks no problems what so ever. The DTVPal DVR is working perfectly.
Hope this helps you. I believe that if anyone is having this problem, and they disable the TVGOS do a factory reset, and are getting correct PSIP time that they will cause this problem to go away. At least it worked for me.
I am now very happy with the F206 update and the DTV Pal DVR

No reason why it shouldn't work past June 12. My Philips 3576 works with the clock set to manual and is flawless. Wish the DTV Pal would have such a feature (besides the part about being flawless).
Yes, my local PBS station actually shut down their analog broadcast a couple of months ago, and I've been setting the clock in my 3575 manually ever since, with no problems. It's a great machine, and now happily occupies the shelf beneath my Pal DVR. :cool:

Yes, my local PBS station actually shut down their analog broadcast a couple of months ago, and I've been setting the clock in my 3575 manually ever since, with no problems. It's a great machine, and now happily occupies the shelf beneath my Pal DVR. :cool:Good to know. FWIW, my Pal DVR seemed to have the correct time set, at least every time I checked it. The problem I was having was not the time set but that it kept changing the start time of recordings.

I suspect that either something has changed in the data (time signal) being broadcast with TVGOS and,
or F206 is having trouble with a slight change in that data.
My clock (with TVGOS enabled) is sometimes 7 or 8 seconds fast, and other times about 15 seconds slow.
Other times it is right on the money. I don't remember this happening with F201.
If it is the way F206 handles the time signal in TVGOS data I hope EchoStar addresses it in the next fw release.
So far (for me) it's a very minor inconvenience, and I still love this box. :)

You may be right.
Mine was problem free since 12/08, until my local station stopped transmitting TVGOS.
I have had two instances since then that one of the tuners would not record and took forever to tune while the other was recording. The latest occurrence was last night.
I am not sure if it is related to the lack of TVGOS, or the fact that my wife placed a Wii remote charge station on top of the Pal. :eek:
I relocated the charger, and reset the Pal (by pulling the plug).
Now for the strange part; I could tune with the second tuner (it still wouldn't record) but the program (Lost) was in Spanish! I checked the recording tuner and it was normal (English).
So, I checked my "Lost" recording on my ReplayTv, (through a DTB-H260F tuner) from the same source to see if the station might be having a problem. It was fine.
After my other recordings were complete, I unplugged it over night.
Everything seems to be normal now.

Just an update:
Since my last post I continued to have problems with both tuners reliably recording at the same time. (This was with 201 and TVGOS no longer being transmitted by CBS.)
I was now beginning to feel the frustration that others had felt, not a good feeling. However, I also knew that my PAL was flawless until the TVGOS change and needed to wait for a fix. Well 206 came out before TVGOS was reinstated and it allowed the option of shutting off TVGOS so I decided to download the update. All went well except I had to rely on PSIP, my timers were off by 1-1 1/2 minutes so I went to reset the clock and found the clock "grayed out". I reset the PAL to use TVGOS and it was now available again.
So far everything is fine.
My point is, I believe that the problem is external for most of the issues we are seeing and hopefully will be worked out when we finally go all digital.

I've suspected for some time that at least some of the problems being reported were due to outside sources,
and that the Pal DVR was getting a bad rap.
I still feel the same, including the clock troubles.

I updated my unit to F206 on 4/13 and have only had one reboot since. That’s a GREAT improvement over the average or one a night prior to the upgrade. I have left auto update and the TVGOS enabled since then and have had not had any issues till last night.

Last night I had two things set to record from 8-9:00pm and we had already watched everything we had previously recorded that we wanted to so we switched to the trusty ReplayTV and watched a show that was recorded earlier this year (I’ll be sad to see the Replay’s quit working when the last of the analog stations quit broadcasting). I just happened to notice that the record light was not on at 8:06. When I went to the Guide (where I’d set the shows to record originally) there was nothing shown as scheduled to record on Tuesday night at all. So I recorded both shows by hitting record in the guide and got the "record rest of show already in progress?”.

After looking at the guide today it seems that all my recordings that were scheduled through the guide are gone but my manual timer was still there. It seems odd to me that I would loose Guide scheduled shows and not timer scheduled shows,

BTW I have not noticed any clock issues but have not been watching it in particular.

Well...on Sunday my Sony CRT crapped out and I HAD to get a new set.
Got a great deal on a new 46" Bravia "Z" series LCD (love it!).
Then it all got weird.
My Pal was hooked to the CRT via HDMI to DVI cable and I have been one of the lucky ones with an average of about one reboot per week (though I have had it go almost three weeks with no reboots at all) and very few lockups (maybe four in the almost four months I have had it).
The Pal is hooked to the new set via normal HDMI cable and the first day (stress d-a-y) all was just great. The first night the Pal was not responding to any remote commands except the power button. Long story short...yes, I have the same 'LCD emitting something that interferes with the remote for the Pal' problem that has been discussed here and elsewhere. Odd that it does not happen during the day, only after dark, so I thought it had to be something in the light sensor or the brightness settings, and after playing with several of those types of settings on the Bravia the remote began to respond and work just fine.
[ASIDE: I can't for the life of me figure out just which setting fixes the darn thing as it seems to not matter what setting I tweak. Meaning, I have found in the last few days that if I go in and change say the light sensor one time and it fixes the remote issue, the next time I can change the power saving setting and that will fix it as well; it is like it just has to have something jog the air around the set to stop the interference---weird stuff!]
And, for the last bit of weirdness. As I said I have been lucky in the reboot/lockup issues, but.....I am now seeing a high number of reboots (4+ with as much as 14) in the diagnostic counter each day. I am not actually seeing these reboots as we are using the new TV's tuner for most of our viewing, but I am not seeing the thing light up while we are watching TV either. Since I do quite a bit of recording overnight I can only assume that is when they are occurring, although I have not lost or had ANY scheduled recordings skipped.
Did I say the last weird stuff...no, I forgot, the Pal reboots almost every time I use the Bravia remote to turn the TV on so this accounts for some of the reboots (this was why I needed to change the remote address to see if that helped...it did not).
Leave it to Dish to produce such a weird little box....still happy to have it though considering the alternatives.
BYW...still on F202 and not really wanting to go to F206 considering the posts as of late.

I've suspected for some time that at least some of the problems being reported were due to outside sources,
and that the Pal DVR was getting a bad rap.
I still feel the same, including the clock troubles.

Based on what I have read I would tend to agree. I think it depends on what market you are in and how accurate the digital PSIP or TVGOS data is. I'm in the Des Moines market and we only get PSIP. Had the PAL DVR for 2 weeks and not a problem with reboots, freezes, clocks or anything.

However, I am knocking on wood as I type this.

Quick question: is it better to order from Solidsignal or from DTVpal directly? (regarding return policy.)

Thanks.

If they are the same price, Solidsignal. You should get a tracking number form Solidsignal but not from dish network.

Better to buy from anyone other than Dish! Dealing with them is a pain and they ship in the retail box = damage possible.
Solid Signal is OK at $250 plus $10 to ship and double box to protect.
Dish Depot now has for $250 and free shipping and will double box on request.
Both have reasonable return policies - go to site to read.
Jim

I respectfully disagree.
I too own a Philips 3575 and it can not possibly receive the same time signal as the Pal DVR.
The Pal only receives ATSC (digital) signals, and the Philips can only set its time from a NTSC (analog) source.
I've been hoping Philips would release a fw update to allow auto time set via digital stations, but no such luck.
Since all but one of my local stations have shut down their analog broadcasts (all except the NBC station)
my Philips can no longer set the time automatically.

uh-oh, I hope my Philips 3575 still works come June 12. But I would think that if it can no longer set time automatically you can still set time manually, and that it will still record programs properly based on the manually set time. The problem with the Pal DVR seems to be that it is overriding the time without any option for preventing that from happening.

I am not familiar with the Philips 3575 but based on what Chuck says after June 12 it will stop working because NTSC signals will cease at that time.

The recommended fix is to purchase a DTVPal which will translate a special TVGOS stream to analog and send it to your analog TVGOS enabled device. The analog device will then use the G-link (IR blaster) to tune the DTVPal. Basically the DTVPal serves as the ATSC tuner for your analog device.

FYI - I just got home from work, and turned the unit on. First thing on the screen: Update to F207 was successful. I have no clue yet what, if anything, is noticeably different.

I am not familiar with the Philips 3575 but based on what Chuck says after June 12 it will stop working because NTSC signals will cease at that time. (...)
The Philips DVDR3575H/37 and its newer model DVDR3576H/37 will not stop working when analog broadcasts stop. They have ATSC as well as NTSC tuners.
They will only lose the ability to auto set their clocks since they get their time signal from analog PBS stations. All one need do is switch to Manual clock setting and the machines still work fine.

FYI - I just got home from work, and turned the unit on. First thing one the screen: Update to F207 was successful. I have no clue yet what, if anything, is noticeably different.
Wow. Considering how long it took for F206 to be released, that was fast. :cool:

The only HDD/DVD recorder that I know of that can get the digital time signal is the Magnavox H2160, which is currently available at Wal-Mart.com.

FYI - I just got home from work, and turned the unit on. First thing on the screen: Update to F207 was successful. I have no clue yet what, if anything, is noticeably different.

Sure enough, just went and checked mine. It's updated to F207. No setup or re-setting of timers need this time around unlike the F206 update.

You folks that are getting F207 via Ethernet be sure & let us know if you see any changes, especially in the clock's behavior.

Regarding installing a bigger hard drive, is there any advantage of buying the WD with 16 MB cache VS the one with 8 MB?

You folks that are getting F207 via Ethernet be sure & let us know if you see any changes, especially in the clock's behavior.

I never observed a clock problem but I was able to create a manual timer where there was no program info. I was never able to do that before though some people seemed to be able to.

Still no more TVGOS program info but I believe that is not in the decoding but what is being sent (or not) by the station.

FYI - I just got home from work, and turned the unit on. First thing on the screen: Update to F207 was successful. I have no clue yet what, if anything, is noticeably different.

I wonder if we will get the "official release notes" on this one?

I wonder if we will get the "official release notes" on this one?
I guess someone needs to ask that guy who has a contact at Dish for this to happen.

I've suspected for some time that at least some of the problems being reported were due to outside sources,
and that the Pal DVR was getting a bad rap.
I still feel the same, including the clock troubles.

I'll respectfully disagree. While I agree that the source of the issue is probably external, well written firmware should be able to handle it. I suspect between F201/202 and F206 the firmware was improved to handle whatever was causing the reboots (e.g. low signal strength).

I'm sure similar intelligent coding can be done for the timers.

Did I say the last weird stuff...no, I forgot, the Pal reboots almost every time I use the Bravia remote to turn the TV on so this accounts for some of the reboots (this was why I needed to change the remote address to see if that helped...it did not).
Leave it to Dish to produce such a weird little box....still happy to have it though considering the alternatives.
BYW...still on F202 and not really wanting to go to F206 considering the posts as of late.

could be the TV causing a power surge or slight brown out that is causing the reboot

Is the F207 clearing timers when updating like F206 did?

Is the F207 clearing timers when updating like F206 did?

Nope.

When I attempt to set a manual timer 207 only shows the numerical date. I think 206 indicated the day of the week which was better.

I'll respectfully disagree. While I agree that the source of the issue is probably external, well written firmware should be able to handle it. I suspect between F201/202 and F206 the firmware was improved to handle whatever was causing the reboots (e.g. low signal strength).

I'm sure similar intelligent coding can be done for the timers.

I'll respectfully disagree with your disagree. If there is more than one well defined format the software should recognize and parse all formats but to handle errorenous or undefined data is not reasonable. About all you can do in the real world is recognize bad data and ignore it and go on.

I wonder if we will get the "official release notes" on this one?

I am actually here in Denver at Dish Network this week. I got an email earlier tonight that F207 was coming out later this week so I am surprised to see it spooling already.

I will work on getting you guys the release notes and will try getting them online ASAP. :)

I just ordered from Solid Signal last Thursday and got it Tuesday (not double boxed, but it was fine via FedEx). I wish I knew about Dish Depot (hint hint, put a link (http://www.dishdepot.com/com/dishdepot/dish_receivers.jsp#link4750) on the first post) since they have free shipping plus a free 6' HDMI cable. Still, I have no objection to SS and google checkout was easy.

I haven't had it long enough to find any problems with the device. It's F206 out of the box.

Playing with the search feature after the TVGOS listings have loaded a week's worth of data is much slower than when there's a day of PSIP. Also, when you cancel and jump around those search menus, it often re-searches, which seems rather wasteful. One would think the search results could be stored in memory until you completely exit the search mode. Is there some way to "clear" the previous search without having to press "del" a bunch of times? I wish they'd map the "cc" button to clear the search box or something. Also, the left and right cursor doesn't work as expected. Right (the 0/zero button) moves right, but the left arrow (*/star) doesn't move the cursor.

I know there isn't name-based recording, but I think with the search feature and a little bit of manual intervention, you can sort of halfway do it.

Right now one annoyance is that there isn't a TV/Video or Input button on the remote. Yes, power, volume, and mute are all nice, but my DVR is connected to a different input and isn't always the primary viewing method depending on who uses the TV. There's even a useless extra button on the remote looking for a function in life. It also appears the "Recover" button (http://dishnetwork.ws/hardware/manuals/722/Chapter10.pdf) is supposed to change channels and then inputs on the TV, but that doesn't work for me. If I'm feeling frisky, I might try the tons of other Sony remote codes to try to find one that works for the Recovery button even though the first one (500) works fine for power/volume/mute. Has anyone gotten the Recover button to do anything?

I'd still love to see a "repeat" indicator or note of some kind (as already mentioned in the first-post request list).