So far so good. I'm running a Terk indoor antenna on a splitter and the tuner is loving it.

My only complaints so far is that there are some artifacts when skipping, but that doesn't bother me. The more concerning of my complaints is that TVGOS isn't transmitting the guide for all 9 channels (missing NBC and CW). TVGOS also had some incorrect schedules in the future (i.e. COPS instead of the Cowboy game) and now it only has schedules for 1/3 of the channels 24 hours from now; and it doesn't have any schedules 36 hours from now. We'll see if TVGOS updates overnight.

What information, if any, is lost when the power is disconnected for a few minutes?  If I purchase a DTVPal DVR, I may need to unplug it and take it to another room to get firmware updates.

Are stored recordings kept or lost?  What about scheduled events: are they retained or must they be reentered?  What about guide information: does it survive the disconnection or does it have to be reloaded from the stations?

Thanks for any assistance.

Recorded events are kept, however guide information must be reloaded. You also don't have to redo your channel scan.

I have the DTVPal unit connected to an Outlaw 1070 receiver with the optical output and the video is connected by component cables to a Mitsubishi 1400 projector. I have noted the following audio problems and wonder if any one else has experienced similar problems. These were not present with my prior Samsung SIR T150 tuner. I'm not sure if the problems are with the tuner or the receiver.

1. There is a brief audible static pulse for a fraction of a second when changing channels for live TV, or when jumping forward and back in a recorded HD program.
2. The sound on commercials seems much louder than the sound on programs.
3. When I pause a recorded HD program, there is continuous static on all channels.
4. Dialog seems softer than usual on programs compared to other sound.

I am using the Dolby Digital setting, and the same problems appear in either Night or Standard mode. The receiver is detecting 5.1 channels, and all 5 speakers are working with discrete channels.

I'm also wondering how long it will take Harmon to list the codes for this new unit for my universal remote.

On the remote - if it can do the Echostar 522 / 625 DVRs - it's ready now.(same remote)

Recorded events are keptOK, but what about schedule information for future events already entered but not yet reached or recorded?however guide information must be reloaded.Thank you; that's disappointing but better to know than not to.You also don't have to redo your channel scan.Thank you especially for that; I had the example of the Motorola DCH3416 DVR rented from Comcast in my mind and didn't think about the channel scan.

Other than having to redo the program list, is there any other good reason why you can't just "turn off = unplug" the DVR to add life to the HDD? This naturally assumes you don't have anything to record - duh! OR, it could be connected through a timer switch so you could record IF it would boot up and IF it did not loose the recording list [this could kill the whole idea!]

On the other hand, I had a whole bank of HDDs going back in the early 90s on some units we used for dialup update support and they lasted for 4 to 6 years going 24/7. Good old days!

EXACTLY. After reality hits, which will only be on 2/18/09 for some, they'll learn to pay attention to their rice bowl. Then things will improve, PSIP wise. And maybe for AQ, as well.

I sincerely hope so.

It is? Well where is the analog forum for the DTVPal DVR?I have no idea.


I mean really, where can i go to discuss the DTVPal DVR? Will i get kicked out of here because i haven't purchased a HDTV set yet?

Just keep the non-HD stuff to a minimum.

Other than having to redo the program list, is there any other good reason why you can't just "turn off = unplug" the DVR to add life to the HDD? This naturally assumes you don't have anything to record - duh! OR, it could be connected through a timer switch so you could record IF it would boot up and IF it did not loose the recording list [this could kill the whole idea!]If DVR manufacturers felt that a true 'off' button would significantly extend product life, they would all offer that feature. With perhaps one exception, cable and satellite companies have standardized on DVR hardware and software designs that operate 24/7 (typically @ ~30 watts or $2.30/mo in VA).

The prevailing sentiment among manufactures seems to be that an 'off' button on a DVR is a recipe for failure. As taxing as it is on the hard drive to perform sustained writes of 3-4 MB/s throughout the day, constant power cycles and/or drive "spin downs" evidently present an even greater threat to DVR longevity.

Before long, I'm sure we'll see some members experiment with drive upgrades / replacements. If/when your hard drive fails, drive replacement could be a viable option. Until then, I would take the normal precautions. Make sure that your DVR has adequate ventilation and connect it to a functional surge protector. If your area is known to experience regular brown outs, you might also consider a UPS.

Anyone have this hooked up to an analog TV? I sure hope the pq is better than the DTVPal. Gawd my UPS man is slow!!I am also quite interested in the analog output of the Pal DVR, specifically through the composite output. In my case it is not for input to an analog TV but rather for input to a DVD recorder. I would like to know how the downscaled analog PQ is and what the output format of a 16:9 broadcast is -- anamorphic frame, 4:3 pan-n-scan or 4:3 letterbox.

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.

I am also quite interested in the analog output of the Pal DVR, specifically through the composite output. In my case it is not for input to an analog TV but rather for input to a DVD recorder. I would like to know how the downscaled analog PQ is and what the output format of a 16:9 broadcast is -- anamorphic frame, 4:3 pan-n-scan or 4:3 letterbox.

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.
When I quickly read through the owner's manual, I noticed that there are separate/independent settings for format for HD and SD outputs. Hopefully someone here with real experience can report just how that works.

For download to DVD recorder, I would want the SD output to be anamorphic. For extending to another 4x3 analog TV, I would want SD output to be letterbox or pan and scan. All the while I would want the HD outputs to remain anamorphic.

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can. :)

Findings so far:

The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.


Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can. :)

Findings so far:

The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.


Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.That's awesome! I was hoping the drive was easily upgradeable! Do you have any idea whether the unit will use more than 250 GB or not? I guess that's the next question.

Also, any tips on opening the case? Others have reported difficulty doing this...

Thanks again!

Reg

I'm sure there are a number of others reading this thread who are equally interested in the composite-analog output for exactly the same application. It would be nice if someone could provide this information.

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid. Not that bad though. However the actual broadcasts themselves are excellent.

Some pictures of the unit with the cover off would be great, please.

:)

Nagravision (the name on the card) does (according to Google) security stuff for DTV and satellite.

So does that mean the DTVPal DVR is some sat DVR based chasis from which Echostar hasn't bothered to remove the security card or it's for some future feature?

My thought was if it had a slot and Echostar is part of the Tru2way alliance then maybe this was/is intended for some future cable feature. Would such a card be needed/work for VOD (via the Ethernet port)?:confused:

This should definitely be moved/posted in the main Pal DVR thread - good news indeed.

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid. Not that bad though. However the actual broadcasts themselves are excellent.

Thanks for the report. I know exactly what you mean by jaggies and text shimmies. I get the same using the composite output on my CM-7000 CECB, the S-video output really cleans it up. Dang I sure wish they had kept the S-video out in the Pal DVR for offloading to DVD:(
Does anybody know if the grid tells if a program is NEW? I didn't notice any NEW icons on akbungle's screen shots? Both the old analog and new digital TVGOS that I'm familiar with tells if the program is NEW, but the graphics on the Pal doesn't seem to be the full fledged TVGOS. For one it's missing the TV channel logos and doesn't look as polished as regular TVGOS.

So does that mean the DTVPal DVR is some sat DVR based chasis from which Echostar hasn't bothered to remove the security card or it's for some future feature?

My thought was if it had a slot and Echostar is part of the Tru2way alliance then maybe this was/is intended for some future cable feature. Would such a card be needed/work for VOD (via the Ethernet port)?:confused:
The card and card slot cannot be used for CableCards or True2Way. It's not a compatible interface. If you want to speculate, the card could be used to support: a premium, subscription DVR service with greater functionality and more reliable guide information;


subscription or pay video-on-demand and PPV delivered using IP (ethernet connection);


a limited cable channel package delivered using IP (network connection).

I think we are most likely to see #2 in the next year, since the infrastructure is already in place to do that. I suspect any other options we see will depend in part on how successful the DTVPal DVR is as a product.

Please take and post high-resolution screenshots of the internals.

I received mine yesterday and so far am very impressed. I set it up to record it's a wonderful life and bones at the same time and it did so without breaking a sweat. This morning I got up to find that the TV Guide logo showed up in the guide. I wasn't aware that our station started broadcasting it. It's not fully populated for later periods but seems to be more thourough in program discriptions than PSIP. In any case, this thing sure beats any VCR! :D

TVGOS also had some incorrect schedules in the future (i.e. COPS instead of the Cowboy game) and now it only has schedules for 1/3 of the channels 24 hours from now; and it doesn't have any schedules 36 hours from now. We'll see if TVGOS updates overnight.

TVGOS updates on a rolling 3 day schedule if I remember correctly. I think it is day 1,4,8 (so on the 12/26 AM update it will update 26,29,2). Since the Cowboys game time was changed on Tuesday, the rolling update probably hasn't hit Sunday again yet. I bet that if you get up Sunday morning it will be correct.

I've 2 questions.

1 -Last night I set it to record 2 shows @ 8PM at the same time. They both recorded. However when I checked the events screen (or whatever it's called) it showed one show was COMPLETED and the other was CANCELLED. Huh?

2 - I have a Dish DVR in the same room and I find I was controlling both devices. It is not evident in the manual or the screen how to change the remote id.

2 - I have a Dish DVR in the same room and I find I was controlling both devices. It is not evident in the manual or the screen how to change the remote id.

See a previous post, we discussed how to change the remote/pal's id. I don't know why they didn't include the procedure in the manual. I got the procedure from a Dish manual. (Be sure one of the receiver's is turned off or you will be changing both.)

I believe TVG provides data in the stream. How each manufacturer wants to present that data is up to them. TVG does have software available for this- I wonder if they charge more than a nominal fee for it. I suppose there is some utility in TVG data being consistently presented across platforms. But I much prefer the Pal DVR guide, almost identical to my other Dish receivers, to the Guide on my Sony. The Sony is good, but it's too complicated and slow.

My reference point is the Panasonic DMR-E85 and I would not say this thing is near as friendly. In particular it seems like you have to go through several menus to schedule anything more than a one time recording.

Lots of obscure stuff not described in the manual but the help button usually has some good info on what each function does. Have not found a good "how do I do that" source.

Hooked it up several ways but if I use a splitter and switch between the direct input to the TV and HDMI input through the DVR I don't notice much differance in the PQ for an HD program but it did look like Scrubs (SD upconverted by station and then run through the DVR) looked a little grainy but there are so many variable at work I will reserve judgement.

The M-F timer option looks like it will be a problem for any program that comes on after midnight i.e. Friday night is really Saturday morning. I guess you can record daily and then delete/ignore what you don't want.

I clicked on a program in the guide and then clicked it again hoping to schedule it for recurring recording and it just toggled. Not a problem but it shows up in the schedule list as deleted. I hope it goes away in a few days because there is no obvious way to remove it.

I too find interruption of viewing or recording when it decides to do an update to be annoying.

Has anyone had any luck with connecting a TVGOS equipped box to this thing? When you go through the procedure it says the DTV functions will be disabled but press any key on the remote to enable them. It seems then only time it accepts a command from my E-85 is when it is in the setup mode. Do you have to leave it in the TVGuide mode to make it work. Does anyone know how a dummy can make this work. It is more of a challenge than a need because it does not really add any significant capability to the Pal DVR but I wanted to try it since so may people have had problems getting this capability to work with their DTVPals.

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid...For people connecting this box to an HDTV using an HD connection, this shouldn't be a problem.

I believe TVG provides data in the stream. ...

May be true because my E85 would set the clock a few minutes after startup even though it takes a while to load the program info.

This should definitely be moved/posted in the main Pal DVR thread - good news indeed.

Topic merged.

The card and card slot cannot be used for CableCards or True2Way. It's not a compatible interface. If you want to speculate, the card could be used to support: a premium, subscription DVR service with greater functionality and more reliable guide information;


subscription or pay video-on-demand and PPV delivered using IP (ethernet connection);


a limited cable channel package delivered using IP (network connection).

I think we are most likely to see #2 in the next year, since the infrastructure is already in place to do that. I suspect any other options we see will depend in part on how successful the DTVPal DVR is as a product.

I think that we will see Echostar discuss its purpose at CES this year. :cool:

I believe TVG provides data in the stream. How each manufacturer wants to present that data is up to them. TVG does have software available for this- I wonder if they charge more than a nominal fee for it. I suppose there is some utility in TVG data being consistently presented across platforms. But I much prefer the Pal DVR guide, almost identical to my other Dish receivers, to the Guide on my Sony. The Sony is good, but it's too complicated and slow.

The Digital TVGOS works much faster down here in Raleigh. I typically have full TVGOS data within an hour of plugging the unit back in.

Does anybody know if the grid tells if a program is NEW? I didn't notice any NEW icons on akbungle's screen shots? Both the old analog and new digital TVGOS that I'm familiar with tells if the program is NEW, but the graphics on the Pal doesn't seem to be the full fledged TVGOS. For one it's missing the TV channel logos and doesn't look as polished as regular TVGOS.
I sure hope that there is some new vs repeat indicator...a real bummer if not.

As far as the channel logos not being there, the unit DOES offer the capability of renaming the channels, and if that mean NOT having to look at ugly things like 009-01 (instead of 9-1), it's a significant advantage. (For most purposes, leading zeros only offer confusion, and in this respect having a channel logo is definitely nicer.)

A question I also have is whether in the list of recordings, for a recording that was manually set, can you rename the item in the list, so it's easier to keep track of?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/12/24/dish-networks-dtvpal-dvr-now-shipping-caught-in-the-wild/

This should help bolster visability...and a few additional reviews

After two days, I still don't have any useful TVG data. Late yesterday, the TV Guide logo finally appeared (after I had set the zip code to the alternate code for Baltimore), but there was no more guide data than before (and of course not surprising nothing for the Harrisburg stations - which I am currently not receiving any of).

I left it in standby overnight. This morning there was no more guide data than before, going to about 11:00 pm at night except for the FOX and CW stations, which go out around 24 hours (I'm guessing that's still coming from the PSIP data. I'll wait and see what happens in future days, but it looks like I'll be programming it manually (no biggie, I'll continue using Dish SD as backup so I don't miss any shows).

A couple of times when I've turned it on, it announced that it found new services. But when I tune to the station, there was no signal. It must get enough of a brief signal to see a channel. Anyway, it looks like it will add stations it sees without any user interaction. This will be helpful at the time of transition when several stations change channels and/or go full power if they are not already.

A comment about PQ. It seems that my Sony KDS-60A2020 TV is a little better at scaling 720p to it's native 1080P than the DTVPal DVR is at converting to 1080i. I was watching an ABC channel. Midway I switch the DVR to 1080i. I wish the DTVPal DVR could be set to output the native format, but it's no big deal to switch it depending on the channel or recording I am watching.

It's now cracked open.

Could you describe how you did it? I tried removing the one bottom screw and prying up on the tabs on the back, but it does not want to open for me.

I sure hope that there is some new vs repeat indicator...a real bummer if not.



So far with my limited use I would say no it does not:(

It would be nice if in a future software upgrade to would include the ability to "SKIP" a scheduled recording like dish has in the VIP 722. Does anyone who has installed the 2.02 software know what changes it made to 2.01?

Last night I set it to record 2 shows @ 8PM at the same time. They both recorded. However when I checked the events screen (or whatever it's called) it showed one show was COMPLETED and the other was CANCELLED. Huh?


I noticed that as well, curious.

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can. :)


Findings so far:

The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.

Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.

Great news indeed! If the machine can format and use a replacement drive, whether for larger capacity or because the original fails, that's a big plus IMO.
I hope you will post any new findings in this thread. :)

As far as the channel logos not being there, the unit DOES offer the capability of renaming the channels, and if that mean NOT having to look at ugly things like 009-01 (instead of 9-1), it's a significant advantage. (For most purposes, leading zeros only offer confusion, and in this respect having a channel logo is definitely nicer.)If I remember right, on my DTVPal you can only re-name the channel names or call letters, but not the channel numbers.

Note: This post no longer represents the easiest way I have opened up my case.
This link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16292799#post16292799) has an accounting of my most recent attempt.

Here is how I opened my DTVPal DVR case, as it was not entirely obvious.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that you do this, I did it merely for curiosity's sake; if you try to do this the device may break, warranty voided, or any number of bad things could happen like fires or damage to yourself of other items or persons, etc for which I am not liable.

Here are the steps, reordered from what I did and several failed attempts not mentioned to make it easier to follow:
- Unplugged the power
- Removed the smart card from the front so I didn't accidentally break it
- Removed the visible screw on the case's bottom
- Pried off the rubber pad on the case's bottom which is closest to the green and yellow RCA jack and unscrewed the screw underneath
- Pried off the rubber pad on the case's bottom which is diagonal from the one just pried off and unscrewed the screw underneath
- Carefully used a flat screwdriver to release the two tabs on the back of the case slightly; this sometimes is easier if done after a couple of latches are unlatched in the last step
- Looked in the slots on the bottom of the case with a flashlight to see that an object could be stuck in them and bent slightly to unlatch
- Unbent a heavy duty 3" long cotter pin, the kind obtainable from a hardware store
- Inserted one end of the cotter pin straightly in the four slots in the bottom of the case excluding the ones with green circuit board visible, to the point where they stop on their own, and bent slightly to unlatch, was careful not to bend very far, and applied a slight force to try to manually separate the top of the case from the bottom
The case opened

Here are a few low res images, sorry no hi-res:

I tried to upgrade the internal drive to a 1TB drive but on power up, a message came up on the TV saying that an error had occurred. I went to the diagnostics menu to format the drive but after 5 seconds or so the DVR rebooted and the same error message came up. Hopefully it is just user error, may try again this weekend.

I got it late last night. Actually the PQ is actually quite good. Much better than i was expecting. What suffers is the interface menus and guide, there is some jaggies, text shimmies a bit and well, you can just tell it's composite and not S-vid. Not that bad though. However the actual broadcasts themselves are excellent.Thank you. This story just keeps getting better and better. It looks like I'll be putting my order in sometime in January.

For all those using JP1 remotes: the codes in

DISH VIP622(8910).txt

work almost perfectly for the DTVPal DVR. I swapped it in and had the remote learn just a few functions to control everything I wanted. Here's the download.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=4500

For those unfamiliar with JP1, one of its advantages is the ability to control even very new devices through a strategy such as I described. See http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/

For my signal and antenna:

The previous "best receiver" for pulling in my most difficult signals was the Samsung DTB-H260F, which was really quite good. It easily bested an earlier Samsung, a Voom HDTV receiver, and the Zenith HDV-420.

The new champion is the DTVPal DVR -- seems a little better than the best Samsung, as good as it was.

(The difficult test signal for me is WTVR-DT in Richmond, VA, 98.4 miles away over two mountain ranges. Have had it solidly all day today with the DTVPal DVR.)

Others' experience of course, will differ. The more I learn, the more mysterious OTA signal propagation is to me.

Got the DTVPAL DVR for Christmas from my Brother - - - Thanks Reg

I'm about 55 miles from DC and about 72 miles from Baltimore (near Winchester, VA)

Antennas are a very old Channel Master for VHF and an XG-91 for UHF both amplified by a Channel Master 7777. TV is a Samsung 4096 LCD.

Out of the box experience was Great - - DTVPAL DVR was packaged well and seems to be built well.

Setup was easy with a very good setup wizard. 37 channels found which is 5 channels better than the Samsung. The extra channels are mainly in Harrisonburg, VA which is amazing since both my antennas are pointed between DC and Balt. The Microtune tuner in the DTVPAL DVR must have very, very good multipath rejection. Harrisonburg has 4 sub-channel which I watched for about 45 minutes with almost no pixalation!

Did one manual recording with no issues - - playback video and audio very close to live TV.

Updated firmware from F201 to F202 with no problems - - I did try to find out where the DTVPAL DVR is downloading the firmware but failed to get this data

Very happy with the DTVPAL DVR and would recommend it to anyone who has OTA and currently no DVR capability.

Here are a few pictures - - tried to do more but my camera had issues - -

Please take and post high-resolution screenshots of the internals.

Here ya go.
tiny url.com /9abg6c
(minus the spaces)

Updated: this one with the shields removed revealing the tuner and video chips
tiny url.com /7cudke

wildwillie6 - What do you use for an antenna?

Thanks,
B

I tried to upgrade the internal drive to a 1TB drive but on power up, a message came up on the TV saying that an error had occurred. I went to the diagnostics menu to format the drive but after 5 seconds or so the DVR rebooted and the same error message came up. Hopefully it is just user error, may try again this weekend.

A more interesting question for me would be whether the recorded files were readable if the drive was connected to a PC, possibly in an external drive housing ?

Here ya go.
tiny url.com /9abg6c
(minus the spaces)

The main processor is on the under side of the board, or possibly under the "can"..:D

Someone's going to have to be daring enough to do a little further dimantling.:cool:

1) On my Sony KDS-60A3000 internal tuner which has a great HD PQ however the DTV PAL tuner live PQ is better than the internal HD tuner fact its MUCH BETTER. :D

2) Recorded House and the PQ was as good as the Live I could not see a difference.

Also the Dolby Digital output sounds better too. :cool:

I also have a KDS-60A3000. This is the definitive description I was looking for. I will order now without reading more.

The main processor is on the under side of the board, or possibly under the "can"..:D

Someone's going to have to be daring enough to do a little further dimantling.:cool:

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudke

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudkeThanks! It looks like the ST chip is the processor. Would you mind posting a close-up of the tuner section, please?

TIA!

Reg

Here's with the cans removed

tiny url.com /7cudke


Note the "Designed in the UK 2008 (upper middle) and the "Made in China" (just below the can over the CPU):)

I don't see a cooling fan - Is there NOT one?

Can someone with an open unit please post the part number of the hard disk? I might investigate finding a lower-power 3.5" or even a 2.5" drive to substitute into this DVR. TIA!

Thanks! It looks like the ST chip is the processor. Would you mind posting a close-up of the tuner section, please?


tiny url.com /97vglc
tiny url.com /86xvtm

I don't see a cooling fan - Is there NOT one?

There is one just beside the mainboard. Air was designed to enter from the side of the power supply and exit out through the other.

Can someone with an open unit please post the part number of the hard disk? I might investigate finding a lower-power 3.5" or even a 2.5" drive to substitute into this DVR. TIA!

It's a 3.5" is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15377033#post15377033

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

So earlier tonight the DTVPal DVR came to my door. It's now cracked open. I really don't think I need to the extra capacity. I'm trying to upgrade because I can. :)

Findings so far:

The drive in my unit is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS. So 250GB and according to unit, stores 35hr of HD content or 135hr of SD content.
It appears DVR Software and settings are stored on chip. The drive is only used for recording and live buffers. I found this out by powering on without a drive. All channels and guide info were still there.
If the drive is blank or unrecognized by the DTVPal DVR, the software will format it on start-up. I unfortunately don't have a larger SATA drive in the house. I did however have a 160GB left over from my PowerMac. It booted and started using the disk. That's a good sign.


Tomorrow I'll borrow a 750GB drive and see what happens.

Are you planning to use the WD 750 Cavier Blue ? - http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=311

Here ya go.
tiny url.com /9abg6c
(minus the spaces)

Updated: this one with the shields removed revealing the tuner and video chips
tiny url.com /7cudke
Thanks. I am surprised, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't use a Broadcom DVR CPU like every other Dish Network satellite DVR. Instead, it is designed around the STMicroelectronics STi7109 (http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/bd/11660/sti7109.pdf).

I don't have an Ethernet connection near my Dish DTVPal. Being lazy, and not wanting to crawl under the
house on a cold rainy day, I did the next best thing: I dredged up an ancient 802.11b Linksys WAP11 from
my cobweb covered junkbox of discarded/derelict access points, and configured it for "Point to Multipoint" .
Presto, I now have a wireless Ethernet bridge between the DTVPal and my Internet access point. It's
802.11b sloooow, but it worked perfectly for the firmware update. However, I'm not sure I'd want to try
moving video across the link... ;-)

If anyone else plans to upgrade/remove the hard drive it would be interesting to see if the original drive is mountable and recorded content accessible from a cpu.

tiny url.com /97vglc
tiny url.com /86xvtm

It's a 3.5" is a Western Digital Carviar SE WD2500AAJS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15377033#post15377033

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.Thanks!

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.If the box is still open, could you read the part number off one of the memory chips next to the ST CPU? That would allow us to determine whether the box has 128MB or 256MB memory.

In addition, can you read the numbers off that part to the right (or left, depending on your orientation) of the ST CPU, outside the frame?

wildwillie6 - What do you use for an antenna?


There's a diagram of the setup at http://bridgewaterva.com/antenna/ and, of course, a dandy thread on antennas at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623 (try the thread search tool -- great for a long one like that).

If the box is still open, could you read the part number off one of the memory chips next to the ST CPU? That would allow us to determine whether the box has 128MB or 256MB memory.

In addition, can you read the numbers off that part to the right (or left, depending on your orientation) of the ST CPU, outside the frame?

Looking at the fuzzy zoomed image and google guessing, I'd say you get two of these:

http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E0699E50.pdf (D5116AFTA; 512Mb = 64MB each)

and two of these:
http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/dram/HY5DU281622FTP(Rev0.03).pdf (hy5du281622ftp-d43; 128Mb = 16MB each)

for a total of (2x64MB) + (2x16MB) = 160MB of RAM in there.

I don't know what the K167... white sticker on the right says. 5's or S's, google isn't helping.

Thanks. I am surprised, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't use a Broadcom DVR CPU like every other Dish Network satellite DVR. Instead, it is designed around the STMicroelectronics STi7109 (http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/bd/11660/sti7109.pdf).

Interesting. The documentation you link to is dated December 2006, two years ago. And, it refers to the product as 'low cost'. Well, I supposed as long as it does the job....

I guess this should be no surprise, from Dish Network.

Looking at the fuzzy zoomed image and google guessing, I'd say you get two of these:

http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E0699E50.pdf (D5116AFTA; 512Mb = 64MB each)

and two of these:
http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/dram/HY5DU281622FTP(Rev0.03).pdf (hy5du281622ftp-d43; 128Mb = 16MB each)

for a total of (2x64MB) + (2x16MB) = 160MB of RAM in there.

I don't know what the K167... white sticker on the right says. 5's or S's, google isn't helping.

You're right about the Hynix and Elpida chips.

Under the K167 sticker is a SPANISON S99-50052 NVRAM. The sticker "K167519. 19D5" probably denotes the software version that came originally.

Trying to program a manual timer. It does not conflict with any other timer. I get this screen:

Confirmation [A0X]
The attempted action has failed (29).
OK

Any ideas what this means?

So far, otaviewer has tried a 1TB drive and didn't work. I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!

http://deco-01.slide.com/r/1/0/dl/UHJkRWfq1T_rcnMMbgkzULN4L-UipTTA/zoomer.fpg

FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.

This should help bolster visability...and a few additional reviews


Yeah, I thought I should tip them since the DTVPal DVR had been out for days and they hadn't reported on it.

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!

http://deco-01.slide.com/r/1/0/dl/UHJkRWfq1T_rcnMMbgkzULN4L-UipTTA/zoomer.fpg

FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.

Was the 750GB a 3.5" drive? I'm thinking that the firmware is looking for a specific cylinder/head count.

I got mine today (Fort Collins, CO) and got it hooked up. The first thing that I notice is that it has MUCH better reception than other DTV receivers I have tried. I am getting a reasonable lock on the Denver PBS station that I've never been able to get more than a second or two blip in the past. The Denver NBC station that is currently low power seems to be solid also. We'll see if this holds up, or if the atmosphere is just being extra friendly.

One of the first things I did is install a firmware update via Ethernet connection. I think it came with F201, and it updated to F202. It was an easy process.

If you configure the guide to use small text, you can get about 9 channels on the screen, with about 3 hours of data. Nice! Response is fast.

Right now, some stations, including KCNC-DT Denver (CBS), who is supposed to be the TV Guide source, show "No Information Available". Maybe this will fill in eventually.

I'm using HDMI and an additional optical connection for audio. Everything seems to work OK. I wish someone would broadcast some test patterns/color bars, the default settings look a little washed out vs. my Comcast DVR, but I'm sure I can adjust it properly.

Still learning, but very impressed so far!

Mark

P.S. Mine came with batteries for the remote.

Does anyone know what updating the firmware fixes/enhances?

I am not having any issues but from experience, in some cases, updating firmware may disable certain capabilities such as being able to update the drive, format drive, or removing other capabilities Dish never thought about when producing this unit.

I know there is an update available, but does anyone have a list of what features are modified?

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!


Awesome job! Thanks for tinkering.:cool:

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!



Double is better than nothing! Good job!

You're right about the Hynix and Elpida chips.

Under the K167 sticker is a SPANISON S99-50052 NVRAM. The sticker "K167519. 19D5" probably denotes the software version that came originally.Thanks.

I didn't find that part on the Spansion web site, but a search reveals that it is a 128Mbit (16MB) flash IC. That seems like so little for system software, but the more featured Dish Network ViP722 satellite DVR also uses the same size.

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works! Excellent!

Before I add this to the first post, can you [re] confirm that all you had to do was remove the old drive and replace the new? The box booted and proceeded to format the new drive, automatically -- is that correct?

Before I add this to the first post, can you [re] confirm that all you had to do was remove the old drive and replace the new? The box booted and proceeded to format the new drive, automatically -- is that correct?

Yep, it took the 500G automatically. At least that was the case for me. Blank unpartitioned drive. Plugged it in. It didn't even mention formatting, just the standard "Loading Please Wait" start up screen.

I tried plugging in the dvr drive with a couple recording to my Mac, but it didn't recognize the partition table. I'll have access to a linux box at work and I'll give that a try again.

I wonder if someone who has relatively complete TVGOS program guide info would specifically check to see if the program descriptions say whether programs such as prime-time dramas are new or repeats. The TVGOS-based DVRs that I am familiar with use the actual TV Guide style program guide, and these have stylized symbols for new or repeat, but the Pal DVR uses the Dish-style program guide instead, and doesn't appear to use the special symbols of TVGOS. So, if the guide has this info, it would presumably be part of the program descriptions for individual programs, which would probably use something like an R to indicate repeats, or - if its indications are designed in the opposite direction - it would probably have N for new.

Of course, right now there are NO new episodes of prime-time dramas, so if it uses the latter indication (i.e., N), we would not now see anything, so we may have to wait until mid-January to know for sure. (I'm just not so sure whether these indicaions are used for other types of programs, e.g., sports)...

Thanks - Tony

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!
...
FYI, this was with Seagate Barracuda ES 7200rpm drive. I would never use this as a PVR drive as it has absolutely no consideration to running cool or quiet. It's the first 500GB drive I got my hands on.Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=338). While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

Does anyone have one of these lying around that they can test? If not, I'll probably go ahead and pick one up.

Reg

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=338). While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.I think the Western Digital WD5000AVVS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=390) might be a better choice. This is their "GreenPower" line marketed for CE and DVR applications. They claim several features designed specifically to improve reliability in such products. It sells for $60-$65 from the likes of Buy.com.

Coincidentally, this is the 500GB version of the 1TB drive used in the 1TB TivoHD XL.

I think the Western Digital WD5000AVVS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=390) might be a better choice. This is their "GreenPower" line marketed for CE and DVR applications. They claim several features designed specifically to improve reliability in such products. It sells for $60-$65 from the likes of Buy.com.

Coincidentally, this is the 500GB version of the 1TB drive used in the 1TB TivoHD XL.Hmmm. That drive uses MORE power in all operating modes and contains a buffer that is half the size of the GreenPower unit for computer use that I specified. I can get the drive for $64 shipped.

Thoughts?

Reg

Hmmm. That drive uses MORE power in all operating modes and contains a buffer that is half the size of the GreenPower unit for computer use that I specified. I can get the drive for $64 shipped.

Thoughts?The buffer differences are a non-issue for DVRs.

The only mode that really matters for a DVR is read/write, which is 5.4 vs 6.0 watts. I would not be surprised if these were essentially the same drive with different firmwares. The "Preemptive Wear Leveling" feature on the WD5000AVVS could be responsible for the extra consumption. Or the WD5000AACS numbers could assume some power savings from the extra cache, which would not be realized in a DVR application. These numbers are all estimates based on a particular usage model, which may or may not be the same for both drives.

It if it were me, I would not buy either drive now. I would wait until other members verify that 500GB is the largest supported size. I would hate to order a 500GB drive now and then see a member find a working 1TB drive in a few days. However, if I had to order a drive now, I would still opt for the WD50000AVVS, assuming it could be found for roughly the same price.

Before you buy any drive, and I would take another look at the instructions to make sure it is something that you are comfortable doing. I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.

I have a Harmony 520 remote. When I program it with the previously suggested VIP625 selection it sends a signal to turn it on but it seems the burst is so short is won't turn on. Anyone have a suggestion?

Interesting news regarding the sata drive replacement. I am quite anxious to find out if it is possible to pull the recorded programs off the drive and what format they are in.

The buffer differences are a non-issue for DVRs.I'm not fully convinced. We are dropping from a 7200 RPM drive to 5400 RPM. In a fragmented scenario, it seems that more buffering might be necessary. But likely 8 MB is enough, as you say...The only mode that really matters for a DVR is read/write, which is 5.4 vs 6.0 watts.?? I expect most of our boxes will spend MUCH more time in idle than either reading or writing. In that case, it is a slightly larger saving of 2.5W vs. 3.3W. In either case, the savings is around 2/3W using the drive I have specified.

Note that in comparison to the stock drive, the savings is about 2.4 W in read/write and about 4.7 W in idle. Thats a big savings in terms of electricity consumption and heat generation, particularly if you add in the additional savings due to sub-unity power supply efficiency.I would not be surprised if these were essentially the same drive with different firmwares.If they had identical chip hardware, I would suspect the standby and sleep power would be the same, but they are not. As such, I suspect they have the same mechanical hardware, but a different chipset and firmware. The power dissipation affects the temperature rise within the case and, more importantly, the temperature rise of the hard drive itself.The "Preemptive Wear Leveling" feature on the WD5000AVVS could be responsible for the extra consumption. Or the WD5000AACS numbers could assume some power savings from the extra cache, which would not be realized in a DVR application. These numbers are all estimates based on a particular usage model, which may or may not be the same for both drives.Agreed. In fact, the Preemptive Wear Leveling and IntelliPark are two benefits of the WD50000AVVS that look interesting for a DVR. Though I suspect that IntelliPark is on both drives.It if it were me, I would not buy either drive now. I would wait until other members verify that 500GB is the largest supported size. I would hate to order a 500GB drive now and then see a member find a working 1TB drive in a few days. However, if I had to order a drive now, I would still opt for the WD50000AVVS, assuming it could be found for roughly the same price.I'm satisfied that 500GB would be enough storage for my needs. I'll still opt for the WD5000AACS as my experience tells me that operating temperature is the key indicator of life, not just for the drive, but for the whole unit. I expect the MAIN feature that makes the WD5000AVVS a "Consumer Electronics" product is that it can be manufactured more cheaply. Just because *we* can purchase the other drive more cheaply does not mean a manufacturer can do the same when purchasing in large quantities. The simple fact is that I expect either of the drives we are considering will allow the drive and the unit to run considerably cooler (and therefore longer) than the stock drive does, while doubling the capacity.Before you buy any drive, and I would take another look at the instructions to make sure it is something that you are comfortable doing. I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.Thanks for the instructions! In fact, thanks for the entire first post. It's awesome! No problem tearing down consumer electronics.

The good news here is that we can get up to 500GB (at least) with this DVR and that we can replace our drives if/when they die. Reducing the power consumption within the DVR should increase the life of all the hardware, not just the drive.

I'll be measuring overall power dissipation (with the stock drive) soon and will post the results here when I have them.

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?

I wonder if someone who has relatively complete TVGOS program guide info would specifically check to see if the program descriptions say whether programs such as prime-time dramas are new or repeats. The TVGOS-based DVRs that I am familiar with use the actual TV Guide style program guide, and these have stylized symbols for new or repeat, but the Pal DVR uses the Dish-style program guide instead, and doesn't appear to use the special symbols of TVGOS. So, if the guide has this info, it would presumably be part of the program descriptions for individual programs, which would probably use something like an R to indicate repeats, or - if its indications are designed in the opposite direction - it would probably have N for new.

Of course, right now there are NO new episodes of prime-time dramas, so if it uses the latter indication (i.e., N), we would not now see anything, so we may have to wait until mid-January to know for sure. (I'm just not so sure whether these indicaions are used for other types of programs, e.g., sports)...

Thanks - Tony

I did not see the guide showing as new or repeat either.
I hope it will or plan to do so with a future update.
But if not I can always go into the computer room and look it up on TitanTV.com (http://www.titantv.com)

Note the "Designed in the UK 2008 (upper middle) and the "Made in China" (just below the can over the CPU):)

So I assume this means the same guys that wrote the Pal CECB firmware wrote the firmware for this unit - kinda makes sense. Maybe that's why we haven't seen any further updates for the CECB - guys are busy writing firmware for the DVR - inlcuding the F202 version and probably more to come.

If the trend from the CECB follows there'll be a flurry of updates in the first few months and then level off.

Hmmm.. I wonder if any Echostar folks lurk in these threads, see the tinkering going on (replacement HDDs) and may change the firmware to curb such activity :eek:

Hi all,

Here is some power consumption data from the DTVPal DVR. All measurements were made using a Brand Power Meter Model 20-1850 (http://www.brandelectronics.com/meters.html). Firmware version is F202TALD-N and all recordings were done with the Smart Card removed.

Plug-in peak: 32 W
Standby (not recording): 20-21 W
Standby power factor: 61%
On (watching HDTV): 23 W
On (paused): 23 W
On (watching and recording HDTV (1080i)): 23 W
On (watching and recording 2 HDTV (1080i) channels): 23 W
Standby (recording 1 HDTV (1080i) channel): 21 W
Standby (recording 2 HDTV (1080i) channels): 22 W

Overall, it looks like we will live in a band of 20 W to 23 W, depending on the mode. Clearly there is a lot of room for improvement, assuming there is sufficient control in place. The biggest improvement that could be made easily would be to spin down the hard drive when not in use.

I will redo these measurements once another hard disk is substituted to see how things fare. Are their other power measurements that others would like to see? (I'm out of ideas...)

Reg

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?

I had the same issue the other day at 3:45am. The red light was on and the unit was un-responsive. I tried holding the power on the remote thinking it might reset, but nothing. Ended up having to unplug (Didn't want to) and waiting 30 seconds plugging it back in. Did a check of the hard disk and a quick format to see if any errors. Works fine now. Not sure what happened. The only thing I think is it may have tried to record a local channel that goes off air @ 1:00am. Not sure if that's the cause though.

Reg: Thank you for the power usage figures. This would be my first DVR if I choose to buy it, and I've read some stories of units running at 50+ watts. Granted, those were satellite and cable boxes, which might have been doing more processing due to retrieving the required signal. I'm looking forward to seeing how low you can get the numbers after a hard drive swap.



bfdtv: Excellent job on the first post!! It looks like you stayed up late last night working on it :)

Last night...the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture...I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything.

I had the same experience two nights ago. I unplugged/replugged the power cord and the problem has not recurred since/yet.?

I had the same issue the other day at 3:45am. The red light was on and the unit was un-responsive. I tried holding the power on the remote thinking it might reset, but nothing. Ended up having to unplug (Didn't want to) and waiting 30 seconds plugging it back in. Did a check of the hard disk and a quick format to see if any errors. Works fine now. Not sure what happened. The only thing I think is it may have tried to record a local channel that goes off air @ 1:00am. Not sure if that's the cause though.

I'm not sure of the cause, but for me I was watching a 24hr Leave it to Beaver marathon so the channel wasn't going off air.

Are their other power measurements that others would like to see? (I'm out of ideas...)

I'd like to know if one cut the power to the HDD if the unit would still update the TVGOS or if like some Pioneer DVDRs the TVGOS is somehow stored on the HDD. If not I could see installing a inline power switch to cut power to the HDD for the 20 hours a day I wouldn't be using it.

bfdtv: Excellent job on the first post!! It looks like you stayed up late last night working on it :)
I second that, dfdtv does excellent work and I'm glad we have him contributing to this thread. If he ever gets one I'm sure we'll get some excellent screen shots. I've followed his posts on other threads.

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?

I had the same issue with mine. It locked up overnight with both the red and green lights on. I had to unplug the unit and plug it back up as well to get it back to normal operation....

Something similar happened to mine the first day while I was
going through a menu.
I thought maybe I just hit buttons too fast on the remote.
The good news is, it hasn't done it again since.
Perhaps the fw upgrade addresses this quirk (I won't be updating
the fw until its on the web for use with USB).

Edit: The more I use this machine the more I love it. :)

I'd like to know if one cut the power to the HDD if the unit would still update the TVGOS or if like some Pioneer DVDRs the TVGOS is somehow stored on the HDD.The TVGOS data does NOT go away when you unplug the unit, even for over 1/2 hour. Nor do scheduled recordings. I don't know if it will retain it indefinitely, however.If not I could see installing a inline power switch to cut power to the HDD for the 20 hours a day I wouldn't be using it.I'm interested in such a solution, also, if it's not too Rube Goldberg. I wonder if there might be other issues that crop up in trying do do this...

bfdtv, I greatly appreciated your detailed explanations in FAQs. I'm coming out of the dark ages of VCR, and it's so much clearer now. Thank you!

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=338). While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

Does anyone have one of these lying around that they can test? If not, I'll probably go ahead and pick one up.

Reg


Let us know if you test this one. While I certainly interested in reducing the power footprint of this unit, I would be concerned that moving to a slower spindal speed (7200 to 5400 rpms) could impact recording and viewing of the HD data.

I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.

Thanks! We should also include a list of the validated drives (model #'s, sizes, etc.) as the forum members tackle this area.

Will someone try to set a manual timer, Mon-Fri, 2hour block in the middle of the day.

See if you get the same error I posted #318 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15380941#post15380941)


I also had an timer fail to record and the info on it was failed to start:confused: I don't have the exact words of the error because I restored factory defaults to try to rectify the first problem.


Also, deleted timers don't need to be listed in the 'Daily Schedule' because they were deleted.:rolleyes:

Does anyone know what those "substitute zipcodes" for TVGOS setup do with this unit? I get no TVGOS data when I set my zipcode for my "real" location (22801) or the manual's "substitute location" (00173) out here in the boondocks. However, I do get a strong signal from Richmond's distant WTVR-DT, which is supposed to be broadcasting that data.

Do I need to enter a Richmond zipcode or the Richmond substitute (00061) to get TVGOS data?

And, does the menu show anything right away if TVGOS is going to be possible? Or do you just wait and see if the TV Guide logo eventually shows up?

bfdtv:
Thank you very much for your time.

I also have a KDS-60A3000. This is the definitive description I was looking for. I will order now without reading more.

Get ready to be blown out of the water of course you will have to make video adjustments to that HDMI Input on the Sony set since each can be different from the other input.

Before I got the DVR box I figured I would only use it for the Guide and recorded programs only, and just the internal tuner most of the time but when I saw how much better the PQ was compared to the internal tuner I am going to use the box all the time.

I am using the Tartan 24 AWG HDMI cable http://www.tartancable.com/ it was a good price and believe me it is a good quality cable dont let the price fool you.

Also using the Tartan Optical cable http://www.tartancable.com/toslink/index.htm from the Box to the receiver (unless your receiver has HDMI switching no need for this).
Again surprisingly good quality cable at great price.

Something similar happened to mine the first day while I was
going through a menu.
I thought maybe I just hit buttons too fast on the remote.
The good news is, it hasn't done it again since.
Perhaps the fw upgrade addresses this quirk (I won't be updating
the fw until its on the web for use with USB).

Edit: The more I use this machine the more I love it. :)
I've had several instances of my unit freezing up and having to power-cycle it to get it responsive again. And, yes, I have run the firmware update to F202.

Sorry this is probably a dumb question (I probably know the answer from reading between the lines)

I thought this was an Digital Converter box so the signal coming out of it was in Analog?

But it sounds like that the signal can be either Analog or Digital (or even HDMI)?

So this mean it works with current HDTV's?
I also heard you need a G-Link or G-Wire, do I really need that, what is it used for? To connect a VCR?

Thanks

Anybody using this in UTAH?
I'm in Orem and reception is nearly perfect with attic attenna (+95% signal strength showing on screen).

Will someone try to set a manual timer, Mon-Fri, 2hour block in the middle of the day.

See if you get the same error I posted #318 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15380941#post15380941)


I also had an timer fail to record and the info on it was failed to start:confused: I don't have the exact words of the error because I restored factory defaults to try to rectify the first problem.


Also, deleted timers don't need to be listed in the 'Daily Schedule' because they were deleted.:rolleyes:
Did you get the error while entering the program info, or when it tried to record?

While manually entering the timer

Thanks to all working on the HD upgrade, good work.

I hope my box shows up today.

Thanks again

Jay

While manually entering the timer
I just set up a 1 hour manual program for Mon-Fri at 8:00 AM with no problems.
I'll try changing it to 2 hours and report that by editing this post.

Edit:
Changed the timer to 2 hours with no errors. Hopefully your problem was a one time thing. :)

Does anyone know what those "substitute zipcodes" for TVGOS setup do with this unit? I get no TVGOS data when I set my zipcode for my "real" location (22801) or the manual's "substitute location" (00173) out here in the boondocks. However, I do get a strong signal from Richmond's distant WTVR-DT, which is supposed to be broadcasting that data.

Do I need to enter a Richmond zipcode or the Richmond substitute (00061) to get TVGOS data?

And, does the menu show anything right away if TVGOS is going to be possible? Or do you just wait and see if the TV Guide logo eventually shows up?

I'm in southern Pennsylvania, but watch and record Baltimore Tv stations.
When I set mine up I used a Baltimore zipcode,not my own.
The TV Guide logo didn't showup till the next morning and all seven days of programing were filled in.

bfdtv:
Thank you very much for your time.
+1

Replacing the drive is interesting, but IF the USB is one day used for external storage, it will be moot. I suspect we'll be hearing more about this unit at CES.

My HDTV doesn't have a HDMI inputs so how are the others. Which is component and composite, i know it's 3 video inputs vs one. What happens on a power frailer, does it have backup battery to hold info and for how long because i'm sure it's not for ever.

just wondering doe it report errors like windows does when something goes wrong, having a auto or manual bug reporting from the unit would be good and maybe added next firmware update.

does anyone keep it hook to the net all time and what security does it have?

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=338). While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

Does anyone have one of these lying around that they can test? If not, I'll probably go ahead and pick one up.

Reg

I have one of these drives but I'm not willing to try it until my next DVR shows up (Ordering after I post;)) . Perhaps if someone in my neck of the woods wants to bring their Pal DVR over and test I'd be game.

I just set up a 1 hour manual program for Mon-Fri at 8:00 AM with no problems.
I'll try changing it to 2 hours and report that by editing this post.

Edit:
Changed the timer to 2 hours with no errors. Hopefully your problem was a one time thing. :)

Thanks Chuck for testing it.

There were two different M-F timers, I was trying to manually set up yesterday, that wouldn't take. I set several Weekly timers just fine. Well I tried the M-F again today and they took:confused:

Still don't know why one timer failed yesterday with 'failed to start' error. Guess I'll have to wait till it comes around again.

I have a Harmony 520 remote. When I program it with the previously suggested VIP625 selection it sends a signal to turn it on but it seems the burst is so short is won't turn on. Anyone have a suggestion?

You can be the first to load the IR signals up to the Harmony website. :)

Simply open up the Harmony remote software
- Select "Device" tab
- "Add New Device"
- "Video Recorder"
- then "PVR" ( didn't see a "DVR" listing)
- Select "Dish Network" for the manufacturer
- Then enter "DTVPal DVR" for the name (so the rest of us can find it when our devices arrive)
- Click the "Next" button - you will notice the the icon for the DVR has a pause symbol next to it. (just indicates that the commands are not in the harmony database)
- Click "Next" again and you will be in the Remote learning area.

Then plug your remote into the USB cable, connected it to your computer, and the Harmony Remote Software menu will walk you through pressing all the buttons on the DTVPal DVR remote while you have it pointed to the Harmony remote to learn all the IR signals/codes.

Get ready to be blown out of the water of course you will have to make video adjustments to that HDMI Input on the Sony set since each can be different from the other input.

Before I got the DVR box I figured I would only use it for the Guide and recorded programs only, and just the internal tuner most of the time but when I saw how much better the PQ was compared to the internal tuner I am going to use the box all the time.

I am using the Tartan 24 AWG HDMI cable http://www.tartancable.com/ it was a good price and believe me it is a good quality cable dont let the price fool you.

Also using the Tartan Optical cable http://www.tartancable.com/toslink/index.htm from the Box to the receiver (unless your receiver has HDMI switching no need for this).
Again surprisingly good quality cable at great price.

I have the best quality hd picture of anybody I know. OTA or otherwise. I am supprised to hear that the picture is that much better. I am using Monster Cable 1000 M series. To expensive but works well. So in your opinion is the better picture due to the processing in the dvr or do you think it has more to do with strength of signal? Or something else?

Replacing the drive is interesting, but IF the USB is one day used for external storage, it will be moot. I suspect we'll be hearing more about this unit at CES.Adding external storage does nothing to reduce power consumption of the device. In fact, it increases overall consumption and will even increase INTERNAL DVR temperatures if the USB port is used to power the external drive.

By contrast, replacing the internal drive can both increase storage AND reduce power consumption and internal temperatures at the same time. As a result, I don't consider addition of external storage to be a substitute for replacing the internal drive.

I have the best quality hd picture of anybody I know. OTA or otherwise. I am supprised to hear that the picture is that much better. I am using Monster Cable 1000 M series. To expensive but works well. So in your opinion is the better picture due to the processing in the dvr or do you think it has more to do with strength of signal? Or something else?

That's my position on the Sony KDS-60A3000 as well I too believe it has the best HD PQ of any set that my friends have and still think Sony should have never dropped the model.

I also use the Monster top of the line cable for my duo player and yes it is expensive.
I just wish I have discovered the Tartan cable first. its that good and cost a fraction.
But since you don't need any cable...

I think it's due to a combination of both processing and signal strength. * Edit
Probably because of a newer generation of tuners?

I did an A/B comparison for several people and all of them said the same thing "OMG what a picture" Every time the A won!
The A being the internal B the DVR tuner
I did not think the PQ could be any better for OTA HD than I already had with the internal tuner which was also an OMG PQ it was and is an excellent picture.
But hands down the external DTV HD tuner has better depth, colors and textures.
The depth is what will really draw you in.
Oh and the Dolby Digital is clearer as well.
And to think all I was expecting was a good HD DVR and got a nice surprise, double bonus, triple if I count the Dolby improvement.

*Edit
Thanks Ken for the clarification
Nope, not signal strength. It would all be in the MPEG2 decoder, and downstream processing from there.

You can be the first to load the IR signals up to the Harmony website. :)



Nice guy...I get to do all the heavy lifting.

I think it's due to a combination of both processing and signal strength.
Probably because of a newer generation of tuners?Nope, not signal strength. It would all be in the MPEG2 decoder, and downstream processing from there.

bfdtv,

On behalf of AVS, thank you very much for your excellent work on this project.

Nope, not signal strength. It would all be in the MPEG2 decoder, and downstream processing from there.

I see all the talk about swapping out the HDD for a bigger one for various reasons. Is it then possible to swap out the decoder chip for one that will provide an even better picture?

Nice guy...I get to do all the heavy lifting.

If I had my unit, I would have taken the initiative here. Don't strain your index finger now:D

Replacing the drive is interesting, but IF the USB is one day used for external storage, it will be moot. I suspect we'll be hearing more about this unit at CES.I agree, I'm more interested in an expandable external storage solution so I can store a whole season's worth of a show to watch during the summer re-runs. External storage is unlimited. On the other hand, being able to replace the internal HDD is far more than interesting and certainly not moot. Aside from the fan, the HDD is probably the only moving part, therefore the most likely first to fail if there is a failure. Knowing I can replace a failed Pal DVR HDD as easily as I was able to replace a failed HDD on my Panasonic DVD recorder is a huge selling point. Being able to put a bigger one in if I have to replace it is just added frosting.

[QUOTE=Ken H;15384787]Nope, not signal strength. It would all be in the MPEG2 decoder, and downstream processing from there.[/QUOTE

I see all the talk about swapping out the HDD for a bigger one for various reasons. Is it then possible to swap out the decoder chip for one that will provide an even better picture?

The decoder IC is probably a surface mount that can't easily be changed. Even if it could the circuit would need to be redesigned for the pin out of the new IC. Besides all reports so far are showing excellent picture quality, don't mess with what works.

My biggest gripe so far is the hard drive not spinning down when not in use, hopefully a future firmware upgrade will remedy this. Some consumer electronics devices have a "service mode" that allows changing some settings, perhaps the DTVpal DVR does too...

I agree, I'm more interested in an expandable external storage solution so I can store a whole season's worth of a show to watch during the summer re-runs. External storage is unlimited. On the other hand, being able to replace the internal HDD is far more than interesting and certainly not moot. Aside from the fan, the HDD is probably the only moving part, therefore the most likely first to fail if there is a failure. Knowing I can replace a failed Pal DVR HDD as easily as I was able to replace a failed HDD on my Panasonic DVD recorder is a huge selling point. Being able to put a bigger one in if I have to replace it is just added frosting.

Capacitors seem to be a high failure item in today's consumer electronics. Keeping temperature down will dramatically increase capacitor life. Hopefully when the caps go it won't take other circuit board parts with it. If a board does go bad hopefully replacement parts will be available.

aside from the fan, the hdd is probably the only moving part, therefore the most likely first to fail if there is a failure. Knowing i can replace a failed pal dvr hdd as easily as i was able to replace a failed hdd on my panasonic dvd recorder is a huge selling point. Being able to put a bigger one in if i have to replace it is just added frosting.
+1

If I had my unit, I would have taken the initiative here. Don't strain your index finger now:D

I'll do it tonight......

Yes, the Echostar software allows for manual DVDR-type recordings, although I doubt you will use that feature after you've had it for a week.

Wouldn't this feature enable you to use this device with a cable service?

Set the system up so the TV signal goes from the wall to the cable box (non DVR cable box) to the DTVPal DVR, then the signal goes to the display.

Set cable box (non DVR cable box) to "record" a show Monday at 9pm on Channel 5 (this gets the cable box to turn on and move to channel 5 at that time). Set DTVPal DVR to record for one hour from 9pm to 10pm on Monday. Vioala! You now have a DVR working with your Satellite/Cable provider, but do not pay the additional monthly fee for the cable/satellite company's DVR box.

Is there an obvious reason why this would not work? If I am missing it, please tell me because if I purchased this box, I would be getting it with this set-up in mind.

Wouldn't this feature enable you to use this device with a cable service?

Set the system up so the TV signal goes from the wall to the cable box (non DVR cable box) to the DTVPal DVR, then the signal goes to the display.

Set cable box (non DVR cable box) to "record" a show Monday at 9pm on Channel 5 (this gets the cable box to turn on and move to channel 5 at that time). Set DTVPal DVR to record for one hour from 9pm to 10pm on Monday. Vioala! You now have a DVR working with your Satellite/Cable provider, but do not pay the additional monthly fee for the cable/satellite company's DVR box.

Is there an obvious reason why this would not work? If I am missing it, please tell me because if I purchased this box, I would be getting it with this set-up in mind.

No ATSC output on the cable box. The DTVpal DVR only records ATSC signals.

Wouldn't this feature enable you to use this device with a cable service?

Set the system up so the TV signal goes from the wall to the cable box (non DVR cable box) to the DTVPal DVR, then the signal goes to the display.

Set cable box (non DVR cable box) to "record" a show Monday at 9pm on Channel 5 (this gets the cable box to turn on and move to channel 5 at that time). Set DTVPal DVR to record for one hour from 9pm to 10pm on Monday. Vioala! You now have a DVR working with your Satellite/Cable provider, but do not pay the additional monthly fee for the cable/satellite company's DVR box.

Is there an obvious reason why this would not work? If I am missing it, please tell me because if I purchased this box, I would be getting it with this set-up in mind.

No, there are no inputs (other than ATSC) for your cable / satellite device.

Buy a used DVD recorder with a hard drive and save some money.

My biggest gripe so far is the hard drive not spinning down when not in use, hopefully a future firmware upgrade will remedy this. Some consumer electronics devices have a "service mode" that allows changing some settings, perhaps the DTVpal DVR does too...

That is the one thing I didn't like about my Sony either. It was spinning for the last 3+ years until about 2 hours ago when the DTVPal DVR took its place.

I'm in southern Pennsylvania, but watch and record Baltimore Tv stations.
When I set mine up I used a Baltimore zipcode,not my own.
The TV Guide logo didn't showup till the next morning and all seven days of programing were filled in.

I'm also in southern PA, and currently only receiving the Baltimore stations (except for WITF-33 Harrisburg just barely at 61%), most in the range of 81% to 85% (WJZ-13 CBS is at about 83%). I also set to Baltimore's zipcode from my actual PA zip two nights ago and as of today, I'm still don't have any guide info past 10 or 11pm except for one or two stations that go out 24 hours. The TV Guide logo did show up shortly after setting Baltimore's alternate zipcode, just the data is not populating the guide. (I have F202.).

I'm not sure how important this is anyway except for convenience since this DVR only has time events and doesn't have name base recording like my Dish satellite SD DVR's - the TV Guide data is only useful in setting events for the next week and it sounds like it does even have new/repeat or original air date and episode number info like the Dish sat DVRs. I'm currently using the Dish sat's DVR's schedule to manually set events with the DTVPal DVR.

...Is there an obvious reason why this would not work?This box will only record an OTA broadcast from the antenna input.

Replacing the drive is interesting, but IF the USB is one day used for external storage, it will be moot. I suspect we'll be hearing more about this unit at CES.

Has anyone actually tried plugging a flash disk or USB drive in the back of the unit? Does it actually recognize the device?

Has anyone actually tried plugging a flash disk or USB drive in the back of the unit? Does it actually recognize the device?

It recognizes the USB drive when you plug it in and out. A message pops up to say that XYZ brand USB device has been connected/disconnected. There just is no way to navigate to the drive once it is plugged in.

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture....

I had two programs scheduled to record just to test since some had reported one being canceled. Both recorded OK.

I was viewing live TV. When the red light came on to indicate recording I lost the picture but it quickly came back with (I think) one of the recorded channels so I just pressed analog pass-through and switched back to what I was watching.

In referance to my previous post the scheduling seems to have gotten simpler. When I selected a program the last few times a dialog box automatically poped up so I could specify recurrance etc. Maybe that is because I am starting to get some TVGOS data but still have not broken the code on feeding TVGOS to my E85. I will let it sit until I know I am getting full TVGOS data then abandon that as a useless exercise if it does not work.

Not sure if I am getting all the TVGOS since I have a logo but some channels only show one day's data and it is the same data that the TV gets from PSIP.

Not going to crack the case but good to know we can replace the drive if it goes bad:)

...Also, deleted timers don't need to be listed in the 'Daily Schedule' because they were deleted.:rolleyes:

BUgs me too. It is not like you can undelete them.:(

[QUOTE=nolim2873;15385277]I'm also in southern PA, and currently only receiving the Baltimore stations (except for WITF-33 Harrisburg just barely at 61%), most in the range of 81% to 85% (WJZ-13 CBS is at about 83%). I also set to Baltimore's zipcode from my actual PA zip two nights ago and as of today, I'm still don't have any guide info past 10 or 11pm except for one or two stations that go out 24 hours. The TV Guide logo did show up shortly after setting Baltimore's alternate zipcode, just the data is not populating the guide. QUOTE]


You have the same siginal strength from WJZ as I have,.... don't know why we're getting different results.
Why don't you start over, go back to the original factory settings and use the same zipcode as I did ( 21207 ) during setup and see what you have tomorrow morning.

Good luck !

It recognizes the USB drive when you plug it in and out. A message pops up to say that XYZ brand USB device has been connected/disconnected. There just is no way to navigate to the drive once it is plugged in.

I appears that the firmware has greyed out the toggle on the "DVR" choice. I suspect this is where you might have access to select the choice of your external media, once enabled.

127713

I appears that the firmware has greyed out the toggle on the "DVR" choice. I suspect this is where you might have access to select the choice of your external media, once enabled.

127713

Did you change the repeat back to one time and see if the toggle will work? Mine shows DVR / Autotune (original firmware). It seems like that this would be the place that you could specify where to record. Hopefully, if / when USB support is added they will have a default option (I.e. largest drive, internal / external, etc)

Any chance we could stream local HD video to this box via ethernet?

Any chance we could stream local HD video to this box via ethernet?

Why don't you hack and rewrite the firmware and share with the rest of us? Otherwise, I suggest a PS3.

Can this thread get anymore off-topic?

This device tunes OTA digital signals and records them...nothing more.

I'm surprised nobody hasn't gotten the wid-a$$ idea yet to dismantle this thing to see if there's an inactivated QAM tuner in it. Especially with so many people wishing there was one in it so bad.

That's one of the big things all the ADHD'ers were so hyped up about when the CECB's first started coming out. That and an inactive s-video connection.

I'm surprised nobody hasn't gotten the wid-a$$ idea yet to dismantle this thing to see if there's an inactivated QAM tuner in it. Especially with so many people wishing there was one in it so bad.

But even if it's in there (and it probably is) how would anyone turn it on? :confused:

I mean it takes some guts just to tear into the thing for an HDD replacement - modifying it enough to turn on the QAM tuner would be some very major hacking.

That's one of the big things all the ADHD'ers were so hyped up about . . .I'm not familiar with AD-HD. Do you get that with satellite service? :rolleyes:

Hey, does anyone know if the DTVPal DVR is able to output video via HDMI, while simultaneously outputting audio via standard RCA analog jacks? I have a (somewhat older model) HDTV that does not have HDMI inputs. I currently have my PS3 hooked up to it in this manner:
1. HDMI -> DVI cable to TV
2. Analog audio cable to TV.
And I select in the PS3 menu to output video via HDMI (which goes to my TV as DVI) and audio via the analog cables. This works perfectly, and I can even do 1080i Blu-Ray playback this way. I searched the PDF manual and could not find out if the DTVPal has such an option/feature. Anyone know? Thanks. By the way... I *can* do component video/analog audio if needed, I just wanted that extra boost from an all-digital video signal.

I'm surprised nobody hasn't gotten the wid-a$$ idea yet to dismantle this thing to see if there's an inactivated QAM tuner in it. Especially with so many people wishing there was one in it so bad.

That's one of the big things all the ADHD'ers were so hyped up about when the CECB's first started coming out. That and an inactive s-video connection.QAM is a modulation scheme, so you cannot tell whether the box supports QAM by looking at the chipset. The Microtune tuner can certainly tune the frequencies normally found on cable systems that use QAM. What's needed for QAM support is a QAM demodulator, which would be done in the baseband processor (software). I'm relatively sure this box COULD do it, but I doubt that it WILL do it, since they clearly have designed this as an OTA-only product.

Hey, does anyone know if the DTVPal DVR is able to output video via HDMI, while simultaneously outputting audio via standard RCA analog jacks? I have a (somewhat older model) HDTV that does not have HDMI inputs. I currently have my PS3 hooked up to it in this manner:
1. HDMI -> DVI cable to TV
2. Analog audio cable to TV.
And I select in the PS3 menu to output video via HDMI (which goes to my TV as DVI) and audio via the analog cables. This works perfectly, and I can even do 1080i Blu-Ray playback this way. I searched the PDF manual and could not find out if the DTVPal has such an option/feature. Anyone know? Thanks. By the way... I *can* do component video/analog audio if needed, I just wanted that extra boost from an all-digital video signal.
All outputs are active any time its running.

I had the same experience two nights ago. I unplugged/replugged the power cord and the problem has not recurred since/yet.?

The lockup (again with green & red indicators illuminated) recurred around 8:00 PM EST. Might this suggest that there is some conflict, when the program guide updates. (The device was "off" at the time of the first occurrence. It was "on" at the time of the second occurrence.)

All outputs are active any time its running.
That's *just* what I wanted to know, thank you!

Why don't you hack and rewrite the firmware and share with the rest of us? Otherwise, I suggest a PS3.

Can this thread get anymore off-topic?

This device tunes OTA digital signals and records them...nothing more.
How do you know this box can do "nothing more"?

Perhaps movies could be placed on a USB/Ethernet NAS and accessed from the DVR recordings menu.

Hey, does anyone know if the DTVPal DVR is able to output video via HDMI, while simultaneously outputting audio via standard RCA analog jacks?Please read post number one of this thread. It answers this and many more questions you may have.

The lockup (again with green & red indicators illuminated) recurred around 8:00 PM EST. Might this suggest that there is some conflict, when the program guide updates. (The device was "off" at the time of the first occurrence. It was "on" at the time of the second occurrence.)
Have you changed the Updates default time in options?
If so, try putting it back to 1 AM (the factory default) so its less likely to interfere.
I set mine for daytime once just to see if I could get TVGOS (turns out its not in my area yet)
and when it updated it locked the machine for quite a while before it finally rebooted.

... it does even have new/repeat or original air date and episode number info like the Dish sat DVRs....

I am not 100% on this but if you select an item in the program guide the repeats will have a big red R. Not as nice as having a logo on each guide entry but the info appears to be there. A lot of people would like the option of only recording new episodes only which is also missing.

Not trying to be a jerk, but as far as a QAM tuning option...why would a satellite provider such as Dish network provide ANYTHING that could be used with cable TV?

Here they are trying to fill a niche. If they included support for cable TV, it could cost them dearly as a pay TV provider.

Just my opinion.

Bill

I am not 100% on this but if you select an item in the program guide the repeats will have a big red R. Not as nice as having a logo on each guide entry but the info appears to be there. A lot of people would like the option of only recording new episodes only which is also missing.

This functionality doesn't exist in on my Sony HD DVR which also uses TVGOS so it isn't any real surprise that it doesn't exist here either. The 'new' notification existed on the Sony, however.

How do you know this box can do "nothing more"?

Perhaps movies could be placed on a USB/Ethernet NAS and accessed from the DVR recordings menu.

It probably has the processing power to do more, but until Echostar releases a firmware update to allow 'more' (or someone writes a custom firmware) as of today it will not do more. In other words, don't buy it expecting it to be able to do more in the future.

The Sony HD DVR also has an ethernet port which was for 'future' use. It is the future, it still has no use, so don't get your hopes up on this one either.

I see all the talk about swapping out the HDD for a bigger one for various reasons. Is it then possible to swap out the decoder chip for one that will provide an even better picture?

No, two completely different issues.

I am not 100% on this but if you select an item in the program guide the repeats will have a big red R. Not as nice as having a logo on each guide entry but the info appears to be there. A lot of people would like the option of only recording new episodes only which is also missing.
I think the big red R just means that program is recording.

But even if it's in there (and it probably is) how would anyone turn it on? :confused:

I mean it takes some guts just to tear into the thing for an HDD replacement - modifying it enough to turn on the QAM tuner would be some very major hacking.Hardware would not be the issue.
It would require a major, major re-write of the software. Very unlikely.

Not trying to be a jerk, but as far as a QAM tuning option...why would a satellite provider such as Dish network provide ANYTHING that could be used with cable TV?

Here they are trying to fill a niche. If they included support for cable TV, it could cost them dearly as a pay TV provider.

Just my opinion.And a correct one, at that.

I think the big red R just means that program is recording.

That is what I thought at first because it appears on programs that are being recorded but then I noticed that if you select/info on something in the future some have the R and some don't so I decided that it indicated that the program was scheduled to record on a recurring basis. Most network stuff now is a repeat and has the R. The syndicated stuff and things like news don't. I said not 100% sure, just the conclusion I came to based on my observation. Try a few yourself and see what you think because I have not done an exhaustive analysis.

Not trying to be a jerk, but as far as a QAM tuning option...why would a satellite provider such as Dish network provide ANYTHING that could be used with cable TV?

Here they are trying to fill a niche. If they included support for cable TV, it could cost them dearly as a pay TV provider.

Just my opinion.

BillInteresting discussion over here (http://www.satelliteguys.us/pub-members-bar-grill/156619-echostar-digital-cable-ready-vip722c.html). EchoStar separated itself from Dish Network this past year (possible sale?). Among other things, EchoStar makes satellite receivers, the DTVPal line and Sling boxes/modems, while Dish Network operates a subscription DBS service. If E* can make a buck selling receivers to the Cable market (which they have been trying to do for several months), they will.

A BIG thank you to all who have posted!

I desperately want to break my dependence on TWC but the poor guide and absence of a Season Pass are a deal breaker at the moment. Boo Hoo.

That is what I thought at first because it appears on programs that are being recorded but then I noticed that if you select/info on something in the future some have the R and some don't so I decided that it indicated that the program was scheduled to record on a recurring basis. Most network stuff now is a repeat and has the R. The syndicated stuff and things like news don't. I said not 100% sure, just the conclusion I came to based on my observation. Try a few yourself and see what you think because I have not done an exhaustive analysis.
Thanks for checking that...sounds promising, and makes a big difference in terms of convenience (and besides, program guides ought to contain important program info, and all the high-def DVRs that I'm familiar with - admittedly only 4 different units - DO have this...)

A BIG thank you to all who have posted!

I desperately want to break my dependence on TWC but the poor guide and absence of a Season Pass are a deal breaker at the moment. Boo Hoo.

Don't count this out. I wouldn't call the guide all that bad. Obviously you need a test drive which will be hard to do.

As long as what you want to record occurs on a regular basis there are ways to record daily, weekly or M-F. You just may have to delete a few things you don't want.

35 hours of HD without the ability to download/achieve may cramp you but I guess you could do the upgrade (I wouldn't chance it with a new box) discussed eariler in this thread to a 71 hour drive.

If the USB for an external drive gets enabled you may be able to use an external BluRay drive but that is not currently an option. So far no one has said they can get the hard drive to show up on a network.

.

Question regarding CP (Copy Protection) /Write Once flags

First of all all this relates to OTA ONLY...


In the Philips DVDR3575H/37, 3576/37, and it's sister unit the Magnavox H2160 threads I've read postings concerning CP protected tv shows are being marked CP protected, or having embedded write once flags making shows recorded to the units hard drive un-burnable to the units burn-in dvd recorder UNLESS you use the unit itself to strip out the CP flags on shows recorded to the units hard drive.
.
(One poster mentioning a "soap-opera" with CP flags...(LOL)

The work-around with the above units being to "edit" out the commercials containing the CP, write once flags via the units BUILT-IN editing menus, Once that is done the show that has been previously recorded on the units internal hard drive becoming burnable to the units built-in dvd burner.

****

Questions:

A: Has anyone checked to see if the DTVPal DVR is passing the CP /write once flags thru it's outputs?

B: Is there a way to edit out commercials containing the CP flags via the DTVPal itself.

C: Which stand-alone dvd recorders "work" with the DTVPal DVR?

D: What other work-arounds may work.


.

why would a satellite provider such as Dish network provide ANYTHING that could be used with cable TV?

Well, there are some reasons.

1. Charlie spun off Dish Network from Echostar this year. E* being the Hardware arm, and Dish being the Programming/Service arm. Now E* has it own agenda to make money independent of Dish.

2. Dish Subscriber growth is slowing now that pretty much the entire nation can get their locals (adding locals always drove growth in subscribers). Now might be the time for Charlie to sell of Dish, but he can still keep E* and use its hardware technology and IP for any new ventures.

3. I sometimes hear about Dish utilizing QAM for Apartment building distribution. (but I can't back it up with any details).

4. The very existence of this Non Dish Sat service box is a strike against the pay service. So biting the hand the feeds them is not out of bounds it appears.

5. It has an ethernet jack, and that leaves the door open to a lot of new content possibilities.

So while I don't think that unit does have a QAM tuner built it, I can see why some hold out hope.

Our box came in on the 22nd and I slid it under the tree. It's out now (golly, vacuum-sealed for freshness?;) ), and initial observations are favorable.

So far, so good. If it suffers any maladies they'll be aired here.





In addition, why NOT name based recording? Do their satellite receivers not do it. And especially yes, why spin the hard drive. The sastellite receivers don't (at least mine doesn't). The stupid box is a computer. It can go

IF (TIME + 2 minutes = record start time) then SPIN UP
else
dont do nuthin

If DVR manufacturers felt that a true 'off' button would significantly extend product life, they would all offer that feature.


Name-based recording is a wonderful and dreamy goal for an update.

I cast yet another vote for a spin-down if idle. My Replay and Philips boxes spin-down after some idle dwell, and run-up in anticipation of a scheduled event. The replay box's drive lasted 8yrs before it got flaky and I replaced it (substantially more effort than for what we've come to know for a dtvpal drive).



I tried plugging in the dvr drive with a couple recording to my Mac, but it didn't recognize the partition table. I'll have access to a linux box at work and I'll give that a try again.

Thanks for your pioneering efforts!
Perhaps similar methods for extracting content from Replay drives under Mac OS-x (albeit from the command line) will also work for the dtvpal drive.

.

Question regarding CP (Copy Protection) /Write Once flags

First of all all this relates to OTA ONLY...


In the Philips DVDR3575H/37, 3576/37, and it's sister unit the Magnavox H2160 threads I've read postings concerning CP protected tv shows are being marked CP protected, or having embedded write once flags making shows recorded to the units hard drive un-burnable to the units burn-in dvd recorder UNLESS you use the unit itself to strip out the CP flags on shows recorded to the units hard drive.
.
(One poster mentioning a "soap-opera" with CP flags...(LOL)

The work-around with the above units being to "edit" out the commercials containing the CP, write once flags via the units BUILT-IN editing menus, Once that is done the show that has been previously recorded on the units internal hard drive becoming burnable to the units built-in dvd burner.

****

Questions:

A: Has anyone checked to see if the DTVPal DVR is passing the CP /write once flags thru it's outputs?

B: Is there a way to edit out commercials containing the CP flags via the DTVPal itself.

C: Which stand-alone dvd recorders "work" with the DTVPal DVR?

D: What other work-arounds may work.


.

What copy protection flag are you referring to?

I don't have an Ethernet connection near my Dish DTVPal. Being lazy, and not wanting to crawl under the
house on a cold rainy day, I did the next best thing: I dredged up an ancient 802.11b Linksys WAP11 from
my cobweb covered junkbox of discarded/derelict access points, and configured it for "Point to Multipoint" .
Presto, I now have a wireless Ethernet bridge between the DTVPal and my Internet access point. It's
802.11b sloooow, but it worked perfectly for the firmware update. However, I'm not sure I'd want to try
moving video across the link... ;-)
Nice to hear it worked out OK for you.
But be aware unless they have some sort of fall back or fail safe in it's design in case of a interupted firmware D/L, that using a wireless connection is not a very safe way to do something like a firmware update/upgrade.

I have mine up and running. I placed it in my entertainment center. On a shelf - behind glass. The manual warned against this because heat could be a problem. There was no good place outside of the enclosure. I think the air temp is about 80 in there. Is that a problem?

What copy protection flag are you referring to?

The CP flags that broadcasters are embedding into commercials /trailers, etc since Sep 1, 2008


I just purchased a 3576 from Walmart online. Real nice unit, works great. The picture is a little on the dark side but not bad. One thing I recently found out that I don't like. I came across a soap my wife loves to record called As The World Turns. She wanted to copy it to DVD so she could watch it in other room. It would not allow us to dub it from the hard drive at all and had a no disc copy symbol on the small picture frame. So we programmed a timer recording directly to the disc to see what would happen. It recorded it for a few minutes and then shut down the recording! Now that totally sucks! I can understand a copyrighted movie or something but a stinkin soap, unreal! What the hell do they actually think I'm going to do, make a million copies and sell the stupid episode on e-bay! What the hell are they smoking to put copy protection on something like a soap! Any of your thoughts would be appreciated.

See if the recording to disc stopped at a commercial. There've been many programs being broadcast since Sep 1 with COMMERCIALS that have Copy-Once protection. They can be recorded to the HDD, but copying to DVD will either be prohibited or it'll stop during the CO-protected commercial(s).

Some find that CO--protection in the 1st commercial, others in the middle or last commercial.

JVC engineers have acknowledged that there is CO-protection in commercials lately but don't know why... yet.

Another person recently said it's from the new use of "white flashes" in commercials, which overload the video IN "bursts" like a CP-like disrupted video stream (white is max. video, black none).

Apparently, if the program is worth the effort, you CAN delete the commercials (or just the offending one if you can determine that, like by when it stops copying to DVD). This should allow a dub to DVD if the CP is, in fact, in a commercial and not a Copy-Protected program, which however won't even START to copy to DVD... you'll get a "Can't copy ..." message from the get-go.

On the slightly dark pic, have you tried the HDMI Format settings, as described towards the bottom of this help file (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298425&postcount=11), to see if your TV likes one better than the other?

Thank You Wajo for all the info. You are right, everytime it stops recording, is right after the commercial, usually the first one. That's the only show I ran across with that copy-protection so far, but imagine there are more out there. I guess I shouldn't bitch and be happy they still record on the hard drive. It must suck for people that purchased the cheaper digital recorders that only record to disc. I don't feel that is right. Hopefully this problem will go away and not get worse.
Thanks again and Merry Christmas to ya



Yup, I had the same thing happen with a broadcast on the ABC network, only it was a NASCAR race. You can always record to the HDD, but in one instance I tried to go directly to DVD so I could take it to work with me on night shift, with the same outcome that you had. I tried it again on the same channel while I was monitoring and saw 'COPYPROT' come up in the front panel, and then it stopped recording. I agree that it's just silly.

.

Q: Has anyone checked to see if there is a option when using a USB stick to upgrade the firmware (once a download is posted) to see if the unit backs up the current firmware?

(Surely it must-otherwise you couldn't recover from a bad flash)

My concerns being having a back-up copy of the ORIGINAL firmware (or a previous version firmware) to revert back to if for example a hack for enabling the usb port for external storage is found- and later firmwares try to re-enable the lock-down, and or refuse to run if the port has been enabled.


.

What copy protection flag are you referring to?


http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/copy-protected-commercials-t358715.html


Copy Protected Commercials
bjruska posted 2008 Oct 29 08:56
My LG DVD Recorder/Video Cassette Recorder has begun stopping while recording regular TV shows. Last night I watched while it recorded and a Microsoft commercial caused a Copy-Protected data error.

How do I get around this so I can go back to recording regular TV shows? :?:


Krispy Kritter posted 2008 Nov 03 12:31
There isn't a way, that I'm aware anyway, of bypassing the copy protection on DVD Recorders. There were a few older models (no longer available) that ignored the copy protection, but all of the current models available in the US will enforce it. There aren't any hacks or ways to shut it off. You're only solution is to switch to a DVR.


bjruska posted 2008 Nov 03 13:53
I have since found out that some commercials and TV shows have "One Time Copy Protection". That means you can copy them "One Time", but you must have a DVD harddrive that is CDPR enabled or in my case have DVD disks with CPRM, Content Protection for Recordable Media. I have ordered such disks from JVC and hope they will work.


Chopmeister posted 2008 Nov 04 02:40
We don't have commercials that do this (as far as I am aware!) in this country yet, so I haven't had this problem. However, if the signal is coming off a cable box through SVHS or composite connectors, I suspect that putting a fairly bog-standard video stabiliser (of the type that deal with macrovision when transferring old VHS movies to DVDR) might fix the problem. If you have one lying around, its worth a try.


orsetto posted 2008 Nov 04 11:32
For some unfathomable reason, this "copy protected commercial" phenomenon is occurring more and more frequently in the USA of late. There are only two explanations: the broadcasters are idiots who don't monitor their settings, or this is done on purpose as a covert method of timeshift prevention, so they can later claim "its not our fault, the PROGRAM wasn't copy protected". Either way, the consumer is effectively being prevented from recording material they have every right to record. (This also decreases viewership, and commercial exposure, which makes it even more idiotic- but that's Hollywood.)

Unfortunately, the only way around this is to connect a CP filter between the incoming source and your recorder, as suggested earlier. This pretty much disables the recorders internal tuner and makes multi-event timer recording into a big pain. You need to have a cable/satellite box, or an external tuner (such as an ATSC adapter box). Connect the outputs of your source tuner to the inputs of the filter, and the outputs of the filter to the line inputs of your recorder. From then on, all your recordings would go thru the recorders line connections, not its tuner. Unless your cable/satellite box or ATSC converter has its own built-in program timer, you will not be able to record multiple events unattended, only one. :(

^ just my guess but the SD output of the Pal DVR (the one likely to be used for archiving purposes) won't have any CP on it (I'm guessing it will be stripped out during the SD analog conversion).

You have the same signal strength from WJZ as I have,.... don't know why we're getting different results.
Why don't you start over, go back to the original factory settings and use the same zipcode as I did ( 21207 ) during setup and see what you have tomorrow morning.

Good luck !

That did the trick, this morning I have a week of guide data. I guess there's a problem using the alternate zipcodes listed in the manual (which I used because I was too lazy to look up a real zipcode for Baltimore).

Thanks.

so if i bought this thing i could have the device record 2 shows while watching a third using the TV tuner? I would have to split the TV cable so what would be the best way? I have the monoprice antenna with a in-line power booster going into my belkin power conditioner coming out into the tv so what kind of spliter whould work best with less single loss?

so if i bought this thing i could have the device record 2 shows while watching a third using the TV tuner? I would have to split the TV cable so what would be the best way? I have the monoprice antenna with a in-line power booster going into my belkin power conditioner coming out into the tv so what kind of spliter whould work best with less single loss?

a regular 1 in - 2 -out splitter, that goes to 1GHz.

That did the trick, this morning I have a week of guide data. I guess there's a problem using the alternate zipcodes listed in the manual (which I used because I was too lazy to look up a real zipcode for Baltimore).

Thanks.

The "Alternate Zip Codes" listed in the manual are for when you are using this as a front end to an analog TVGOS device. Sort of what everyone was getting the DTVPal's for .

That did the trick, this morning I have a week of guide data. I guess there's a problem using the alternate zipcodes listed in the manual (which I used because I was too lazy to look up a real zipcode for Baltimore).

A similar fix worked for me -- stopped using alternate zipcode 00173, which had not resulted in any TV Guide data being downloaded. I put in a zipcode within the prime coverage area of the Richmond CBS affiliate (but over on this end of that area, hoping for data for all my stations). I now have a fairly fully populated guide out through 12/31. Then there's data for only a few stations 1/1 and after, which is OK by me.

Question, though: When you're looking at a particular piece of onscreen guide data (say, a program title or description), is there any way of telling whether that came from TVGOS or PSIP?

A similar fix worked for me -- stopped using alternate zipcode 00173, which had not resulted in any TV Guide data being downloaded. I put in a zipcode within the prime coverage area of the Richmond CBS affiliate (but over on this end of that area, hoping for data for all my stations). I now have a fairly fully populated guide out through 12/31. Then there's data for only a few stations 1/1 and after, which is OK by me.

Question, though: When you're looking at a particular piece of onscreen guide data (say, a program title or description), is there any way of telling whether that came from TVGOS or PSIP?

Look for the TV Guide logo on the EPG screen.

When setting up your DTVPAL DVR- USE YOUR REAL ZIPCODE ! And Not the ones in the manual.

I tried an old 160GB and it worked.

750GB Drive - didn't work
500GB Drive - works!


Very exciting - great work hignfy with testing all the drives! :)

Would you be willing to plug in the DVR initialized 160GB drive on a Linux PC to see if there is any partition structure/recognizable file system/drive ID/etc?

I tried to plug the 250GB drive into my computer with an external USB/SATA adapter and power supply, but it wouldn't spin up, though my external adapter and power supply would spin up my 1TB WD Cavier/Green drive which didn't have a partition but might not have been formatted right. I tried to manually create a Linux type partition using the whole drive but that didn't work. Was hoping to try to manually try to format the 1TB drive and stick it back in if I knew what the partition info/file system/etc was.

Anyone find a way to hide unwanted listings on the TVGOS screen? It would be nice to hide the half you never watch or have the same thing on 24/7 aka no listings.

Thanks,

>>Question, though: When you're looking at a particular piece of onscreen guide data (say, a program title or description), is there any way of telling whether that came from TVGOS or PSIP?

> Look for the TV Guide logo on the EPG screen.

Actually I have in mind a slightly different question. The TV Guide logo is there on the EPG screen -- but does that mean all the data is from TVGOS? Or is the guide possibly a mix of TVGOS and PSIP data?

(Current example: "Hannah Montana" on the Richmond ABC affiliate's guide entry has all the detail on the current episode -- but "Hannah Montana" on the more distant stations says simply "No Information Available." Not that I'm a Hannah Montana fan; it's just an example.)

>>Question, though: When you're looking at a particular piece of onscreen guide data (say, a program title or description), is there any way of telling whether that came from TVGOS or PSIP?

> Look for the TV Guide logo on the EPG screen.

Actually I have in mind a slightly different question. The TV Guide logo is there on the EPG screen -- but does that mean all the data is from TVGOS? Or is the guide possibly a mix of TVGOS and PSIP data?

(Current example: "Hannah Montana" on the Richmond ABC affiliate's guide entry has all the detail on the current episode -- but "Hannah Montana" on the more distant stations says simply "No Information Available." Not that I'm a Hannah Montana fan; it's just an example.)

There is no way to tell - assume it is all TVGOS data. I see that "No Information available" in a couple cases - 1) - the station is not currently receiveable 2)- the station simply didn't supply the information.

Anyone find a way to hide unwanted listings on the TVGOS screen? It would be nice to hide the half you never watch or have the same thing on 24/7 aka no listings.

Thanks,

Menu
Setup
System Setup
Channel Setup
Channel List

Then just click the ones you don't want and 'DELETE'

There is no way to tell - assume it is all TVGOS data. I see that "No Information available" in a couple cases - 1) - the station is not currently receiveable 2)- the station simply didn't supply the information.

or 3) The stations are in another DMA - none of the Harrisburg stations have any information, I'm assuming because the information is not supplied by the Baltimore CBS station (and the Harrisburg CBS station is not supplying the data according to rabbitears, and in my case, not even receivable being at lo-vhf 4 and I'm too far away and don't have the right antenna for lo-vhf).

Thanks...

Why is the first post here from January but all subsequent posts from this month? I just stumbled across this thread when searching for something else but it just seems weird.

Nice to hear it worked out OK for you.
But be aware unless they have some sort of fall back or fail safe in it's design in case of a interupted firmware D/L, that using a wireless connection is not a very safe way to do something like a firmware update/upgrade.

I would agree with this, but I would assume that the download would be the same as downloading updates via satellite with Dish Network. There is always a possibility that a satellite connection could be dropped, even during a satellite update download.

I would think that they would have thought of this. Though I have not updated mine yet, I would think that they would first download the update to memory and check the integrity of the download, and then apply it to the unit.

Applying firmware at home to a router or similar device is different in the fact that you download a file and point to the location of the file. The device then starts the process of uploading the firmware to the device which is why a wireless is not recommended. Wireless can be used and even if it fails and bricks the unit, some (not all) still can be reflashed, though it is not an easy task.

I did in fact order a wireless bridge for mine and have not received it yet. When I do, it will be downloading via wireless just because I don't have anywhere close to use an ethernet cable.

Hopefully, I won't have any issues. I checked the manual and nowhere did is specifically say to not use wireless. The only thing it does mention is to not unplug the unit during the download or update process, which for me is not an issue since I use an APC backup for the unit.

Okay, so this is just a quasi dual tuner unit. I have yet to figure out how to do the following with the dual tuners...it simply won't allow me to saying there is a conflict.

Weekly Monday (no padding on start/end times)
7:00-7:30PM
7:30-8:00PM
7:00-8:00PM

It seems it could use tuner 1 to record the 2 30 minute shows and tuner 2 to record the 1 hour show. It just won't allow me to do this. Is there anyway to force which tuner to use for a recording? Or is there some trick I'm missing?

(I guess I could set a single hour long manual timer for the 2 30 minute shows but that defeats the purpose of the name recording)

Okay, so this is just a quasi dual tuner unit. I have yet to figure out how to do the following with the dual tuners...it simply won't allow me to saying there is a conflict.

Weekly Monday (no padding on start/end times)
7:00-7:30PM
7:30-8:00PM
7:00-8:00PM

It seems it could use tuner 1 to record the 2 30 minute shows and tuner 2 to record the 1 hour show. It just won't allow me to do this. Is there anyway to force which tuner to use for a recording? Or is there some trick I'm missing?

(I guess I could set a single hour long manual timer for the 2 30 minute shows but that defeats the purpose of the name recording)
You might try entering the programs in a different order...

Why is the first post here from January but all subsequent posts from this month? I just stumbled across this thread when searching for something else but it just seems weird.
The unit only became available for Pre Order Nov 19th.
The first shipments went out Dec 17th.

Okay, so this is just a quasi dual tuner unit. I have yet to figure out how to do the following with the dual tuners...it simply won't allow me to saying there is a conflict.

Weekly Monday (no padding on start/end times)
7:00-7:30PM
7:30-8:00PM
7:00-8:00PM

It seems it could use tuner 1 to record the 2 30 minute shows and tuner 2 to record the 1 hour show. It just won't allow me to do this. Is there anyway to force which tuner to use for a recording? Or is there some trick I'm missing?

(I guess I could set a single hour long manual timer for the 2 30 minute shows but that defeats the purpose of the name recording)


setup the timer for the longer show first, then the two shortys.

I am using my real ZIP code and I am only getting the guide for 8-10 hours ahead not 7 days and I have left it plugged in for over 2 days. Is there something else I need to do?
Why did'nt they put a PIP function on these? It has 2 tuners so it could be done just like the Dish satellite receivers.

I am using my real ZIP code and I am only getting the guide for 8-10 hours ahead not 7 days and I have left it plugged in for over 2 days. Is there something else I need to do?
Why did'nt they put a PIP function on these? It has 2 tuners so it could be done just like the Dish satellite receivers.

Got a zip for us ? you may have to try the zip code for the stations, then (as a last resort) try the "substitute" zip.

TV market ?
is the Red "TV GUIDE" logo on your EPG ?

And yes that feature (about the PIP for the guide) was mentioned as a desireable feature.

or 3) The stations are in another DMA - none of the Harrisburg stations have any information, I'm assuming because the information is not supplied by the Baltimore CBS station (and the Harrisburg CBS station is not supplying the data according to rabbitears, and in my case, not even receivable being at lo-vhf 4 and I'm too far away and don't have the right antenna for lo-vhf).Hmmmm. That's what some of us with multiple markets were afraid might happen.

With the analog TVGOS, the only stations that consistently said "No Information Available", even from other markets, were ones that had the type of programming you really couldn't provide specific, detailed info for, such as music video subchannels, etc.

Actually, it never said "No Information Available" - it always said something a little more descriptive, like " The Tube Programming", repeated in all of the grid slots. If there was "no information" for a channel at all, it wouldn't even be available in the guide. And this is in all the many devices I've had using the last three available analog TVGOS versions. In fact, the only time I've ever seen a programming guide say "No Information Available" was when using PSIP data - which makes me wonder........hmmmm.

Why is the first post here from January but all subsequent posts from this month? I just stumbled across this thread when searching for something else but it just seems weird.It was taken from the "original", pre-release thread on the unit and updated for this one, to start it off (the other thread is still active).

I don't think you always use your real/ actual zip code.
For instance, if you live in ABC town, but get your programing from XYZ town, use the XYZ zip code, not your own.

I live in the Harrisburg Pa. market, but get a stronger more reliable siginal From Baltimore. My antenna is pointed towards Baltimore, Harrisburg is on the back side of the antenna.

I used a Baltimore zipcode and everything went fine. If I'd used my actual zip code, I'd probably still be waiting for 7 day TV guide listings.

Have you changed the Updates default time in options?
If so, try putting it back to 1 AM (the factory default) so its less likely to interfere.

Thanks for the suggestion. After two "lockup" occurences in less than 30 minutes, I checked that the update time was still 1 AM, which it was. I subsequently disabled TVGOS and will see if the lockups continue.

I don't think you always use your real/ actual zip code.
For instance, if you live in ABC town, but get your programing from XYZ town, use the XYZ zip code, not your own.

I live in the Harrisburg Pa. market, but get a stronger more reliable siginal From Baltimore. My antenna is pointed towards Baltimore, Harrisburg is on the back side of the antenna.

I used a Baltimore zipcode and everything went fine. If I'd used my actual zip code, I'd probably still be waiting for 7 day TV guide listings.

Since you are viewing Baltimore stations - that makes sense. Other people with multiple DMAs may just have to pick their "primary DMA" and input a zipcode from there. Most of us with only 1 DMA don't have that issue :D .

Thanks for the suggestion. After two "lockup" occurences in less than 30 minutes, I checked that the update time was still 1 AM, which it was. I subsequently disabled TVGOS and will see if the lockups continue.

All you did was disable when the DVR will check for updates for firmware, Not for TVGOS. You can still manually initiate updates.

All you did was disable when the DVR will check for updates for firmware, Not for TVGOS. You can still manually initiate updates.
The Help info for the Updates option says its for the program guide. Its not in the manual, but it is in the help info for that option.

What about coax to the ATSC tuner on the tv, will it pass the signal without the need to split it? It would be nice to record 2 things with the DVR and watch a third on the tv.

Current DirecTV user looking to go OTA, but need a DVR.
Actually, I think you can record two programs and watch a previously-recorded program at the same time (the hard disk can read and write at the same time). I have my antenna connected to the DVR with coax and then to the HDTV with a single HDMI cable. I think I was watching a live program (using the HDTV tuner) at the same time I was testing recording two programs at the same time. So the DVR does pass through the OTA signal, at least on the HDMI output.

Actually, I think you can record two programs and watch a previously-recorded program at the same time (the hard disk can read and write at the same time). I have my antenna connected to the DVR with coax and then to the HDTV with a single HDMI cable. I think I was watching a live program (using the HDTV tuner) at the same time I was testing recording two programs at the same time. So the DVR does pass through the OTA signal, at least on the HDMI output.

I don't have HDMI or S-VHS on my HDTV. It does have aux 1-2 and i have my portable DVD player hooked to 1. I also have a sound bar which only does analog plug ins but has 3, TV/DVD/aux settings. Since the DVD is hooked to the TV and I'm using the headphones jack on the TV to pass the sound along to the sound bar wondering if it's better to just hook the pals audio to the TV and let all the sound pass through the TV to the soundbar.

If coaxial cable can carry the HD single from a antenna to the TV then why can't it or composite or component also from external devices?

Would you be willing to plug in the DVR initialized 160GB drive on a Linux PC to see if there is any partition structure/recognizable file system/drive ID/etc?

Here's what I find..

- The dtvpal dvr doesn't appear to use a conventional partition table. I used a previously partitioned drive in my dtvpal dvr unit. After recording a few things on it, I plugged the drive back on a linux box. The old partition table was still there.
- It doesn't appear to take a 400GB drive. :confused: It's strange that the unit took a 160GB, a 250GB and 500GB. But not 400GB??

Anyway, as a next step. I just spent a few hours and zeroed-out my 500GB drive. Now I can find try to find out exactly what's being written by the device.

I don't have HDMI or S-VHS on my HDTV. It does have aux 1-2 and i have my portable DVD player hooked to 1. I also have a sound bar which only does analog plug ins but has 3, TV/DVD/aux settings. Since the DVD is hooked to the TV and I'm using the headphones jack on the TV to pass the sound along to the sound bar wondering if it's better to just hook the pals audio to the TV and let all the sound pass through the TV to the soundbar.

If coaxial cable can carry the HD single from a antenna to the TV then why can't it or composite or component also from external devices?

How many component inputs does your HDTV have? What is the brand/model# of your set? I'm guessing it's an older HDTV since no HDMI, most older HD sets have at least 2 component inputs.

The coax can only carry an HD signal as an RF frequency, the DTVpal DVR doesn't have an HD modulator in it since ALL HDTV's have at least one HD input.

Okay, so this is just a quasi dual tuner unit. I have yet to figure out how to do the following with the dual tuners...it simply won't allow me to saying there is a conflict.

Weekly Monday (no padding on start/end times)
7:00-7:30PM
7:30-8:00PM
7:00-8:00PM

It seems it could use tuner 1 to record the 2 30 minute shows and tuner 2 to record the 1 hour show. It just won't allow me to do this. Is there anyway to force which tuner to use for a recording? Or is there some trick I'm missing?

(I guess I could set a single hour long manual timer for the 2 30 minute shows but that defeats the purpose of the name recording)

You might try entering the programs in a different order...

That worked but for some reason it won't let me pad the 1 hour recording to end at 8:01PM. Tells me that there is a conflict.

That worked but for some reason it won't let me pad the 1 hour recording to end at 8:01PM. Tells me that there is a conflict.Perhaps when you add any padding it applies it to all three shows, causing the two 30-minute shows to conflict?

How would you all characterize the noise produced by the DTVPal DVR ? Do you notice it? Is it bothersome? If it is bothersome, from what distance?

If you previously owned a DVR, how does the noise from the DTVPal DVR compare to that?

I don't have HDMI or S-VHS on my HDTV. It does have aux 1-2 and i have my portable DVD player hooked to 1. I also have a sound bar which only does analog plug ins but has 3, TV/DVD/aux settings. Since the DVD is hooked to the TV and I'm using the headphones jack on the TV to pass the sound along to the sound bar wondering if it's better to just hook the pals audio to the TV and let all the sound pass through the TV to the soundbar.

If coaxial cable can carry the HD single from a antenna to the TV then why can't it or composite or component also from external devices?

Actually, I think you can record two programs and watch a previously-recorded program at the same time (the hard disk can read and write at the same time). I have my antenna connected to the DVR with coax and then to the HDTV with a single HDMI cable. I think I was watching a live program (using the HDTV tuner) at the same time I was testing recording two programs at the same time. So the DVR does pass through the OTA signal, at least on the HDMI output.

You can split your incoming coax! One to the dvr and one to the TV. That way you can record two on the dvr and watch a previously recorded program on the dvr or switch inputs on the tv to the split antenna feed and watch a live program on the tv.

How would you all characterize the noise produced by the DTVPal DVR ? Do you notice it? Is it bothersome? If it is bothersome, from what distance?

If you previously owned a DVR, how does the noise from the DTVPal DVR compare to that?

I can't hear a thing even when it is recording. It also runs fairly cool compared to the VIP 722.

Thanks for the suggestion. After two "lockup" occurences in less than 30 minutes, I checked that the update time was still 1 AM, which it was. I subsequently disabled TVGOS and will see if the lockups continue.My unit got the program guide FOUR TIMES between about 6:02 AM and 6:20 AM this morning. I was recording two HD programs at the time and both of them were broken into 5 pieces. Each time it got the program guide, it seemed to do so successfully. Methinks this unit has its struggles related to the program guide.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like this is the same type of behavior you are seeing, since I would not describe it as a "Lockup", but it sure seems like something that needs fixing.

...Would you be willing to plug in the DVR initialized 160GB drive on a Linux PC to see if there is any partition structure/recognizable file system/drive ID/etc?

.... I tried to manually create a Linux type partition using the whole drive but that didn't work. Was hoping to try to manually try to format the 1TB drive and stick it back in if I knew what the partition info/file system/etc was.

If someone has a program like WinHex that can dump the Master Boot Record on the DVR drive that should tell how it is formatted if it conforms to the normal convention.

When the drives fail can you run the builtin diagnostic on the DVR and does it provide any useful information?

How would you all characterize the noise produced by the DTVPal DVR ? Do you notice it? Is it bothersome? If it is bothersome, from what distance?

If you previously owned a DVR, how does the noise from the DTVPal DVR compare to that?
I can's hear mine at all. It's even quiter than my Philips DVDR3575H/37, and it's very quiet.

Anyway, as a next step. I just spent a few hours and zeroed-out my 500GB drive. Now I can find try to find out exactly what's being written by the device.

A raw look into the disk reveals things like "Die Miserable Dishplayer! Die!", "DaveSystemDisk" and several filenames like "record_event_index_header", "record_event_index.bak", "Strm0001.log", "Strm0000.ifo", "trmFFFFFFFE.evt", etc. I also saw things that resemble raw .ts streams.

A google search (http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/dishmod@yahoogroups.com/msg02455.html) brought (http://id-discussions.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50872) up (http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/112677-moving-programs-form-625-722-a.html) discussions (http://mcgrath.ca/2008/08/08/mini-review-expressvu-external-hard-drive-9242-hd-pvr/) from Bell Expressvu and Dishnetwork users way back in 2004. So it appears the dtvpal uses same DVR EFS as other satellite dvr units. If that is the case, utilities like PVRdSE may work. I, however, have no previous experience with any of it. I personally have no interest in extensively hacking the unit or extracting recordings from the drive. I'm more interested in 'blessing' a 1TB drive to put into the device. That's just me.

(If it's okay with bfdtv and Ken, let's continue this on a separate thread)

Anyone find a way to hide unwanted listings on the TVGOS screen?
It would be nice to hide the half you never watch or have the same thing on 24/7 aka no listings.

Thanks,

Lock the channels or make a favorites list.

From the user guide:
If some channels are missing when you are using the Program Guide or Browse Banner,
you may have locked the DTVPal DVR to hide (adult) channels,
or you may have applied a Favorites List other than All Channels.

Unlock the DTVPal DVR (see Locks on page 20), or choose a different Favorites List to show the channels you are missing in the guide.
(see Customizing the Guide and Channel Lists on page 23)

Beeper

NBC rebroadcasts the 2008 Beijing Olympics opening ceremonies tonight. It should be an excellent test case for recording with our new DVRs!

How would you all characterize the noise produced by the DTVPal DVR ? Do you notice it? Is it bothersome? If it is bothersome, from what distance?

If you previously owned a DVR, how does the noise from the DTVPal DVR compare to that?

I never noticed any sound coming from the unit, nor from the Dish 625 (dual sat tuner).

I put my ear up to both units and I could a faint sound, the DTVPal DVR is a little quieter than the 625. The DTVPal DVR was recording on one tuner and was tuned to the other. Both outputs of the 625 were also on, but it wasn't recording anything.

The rest of my A/V system was off, so if it was on it's unlikely I would here anything coming from either of the DVRs.

Hmmmm. That's what some of us with multiple markets were afraid might happen.


I finally got my antenna moved from the living room up to the attic, though I don't have it's position optimized yet, nor did I hook up the antenna amplifier I got for it.

I initially pointed it approximately north and was able to pick up 3 more Harrisburg stations (NBC-8, Fox-43, and CW-15 - but still not CBS-21 and ABC-27 that are VHF 4 and 10). I was able to barely pick up PBS-33 before and now it's much stronger. The Baltimore stations were weaker and I could no longer get CW-40 (and still couldn't get MyN-24).

Anyway, here's interesting part. Looking at the guide, I had full 7 day data for PBS-33 and Fox-43, both Harrisburg stations. Could that have been coming from PSIP data or from TVGOS data from Baltimore's CBS-13?

Tried to set-up my dvr.
During initial setup, it cannot find any channels.
I live 20 miles from Chicago.
My Sharp Aquous TV has strength in the 70s to 90s for all channels.
I get around 30 Digital channels on my TVs.
Tried a different coax from DVR to wall socket.
Tried a different antenna ( I have one in the attic and one on the roof).
I cannot get off the set-up screen.
I tried the analog pass thru button and no analog channels went to the tv.
While I am on the setup screen, the power button on the DVR will not turn off the box. The instructions say to turn off DVR and then unplug. I had to unplug to turn off. The green light on the DVR would blink when I pressed the power button so I know it is receiving the command.
I call Dish and they could not help.
It is strange that I cannot even get one channel.
Any ideas out there????

Kyboman,

If you are able to get Analog from that same wall socket to your TV, then the Digital signal should also be there. If this is the case, then you may be the first of us that will need to test the return defective unit process. all I can say is good luck

How many component inputs does your HDTV have? What is the brand/model# of your set? I'm guessing it's an older HDTV since no HDMI, most older HD sets have at least 2 component inputs.

The coax can only carry an HD signal as an RF frequency, the DTVpal DVR doesn't have an HD modulator in it since ALL HDTV's have at least one HD input.

It's only 1 year old, emerson 19" sold at walmart last black friday. It does HD fine using the antenna but no other way.
component video cable connection
NOTE:
1) UNIT ACCEPTS 480I/480P/SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE
2) SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE DIFFERS TO ORIGiNAL 1080I BECAUSE IT'S DISPLAYED AFTER CONVERTED INTO 480P
Emerson
19" WXGA+ LCD Display
Resolution WXGA (1440 x 900)
3D Digital Comb Filter
Built-in ATSC/NTSC Tuner (HD Quality Output)

Can someone identify the part numbers of the two IC's near the SATA connector? I see the two ATSC tuners, but don't see if those two are the demods or not. No one has identified the demodulators as I don't see any demods on the first post description...

Please advise if anyone has theirs open.

Thx.

It's only 1 year old, emerson 19" sold at walmart last black friday. It does HD fine using the antenna but no other way.
component video cable connection
NOTE:
1) UNIT ACCEPTS 480I/480P/SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE
2) SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE DIFFERS TO ORIGiNAL 1080I BECAUSE IT'S DISPLAYED AFTER CONVERTED INTO 480P
Emerson
19" WXGA+ LCD Display
Resolution WXGA (1440 x 900)
3D Digital Comb Filter
Built-in ATSC/NTSC Tuner (HD Quality Output)

When I see "component video input" - I'm thinking 3 RCA jacks color coded Red Green blue (commonly refered to as Y Pb Pr). I don't know what to make of that "Simplified component" video cable comment - is that a single Yellow RCA jack ? Fortunately, The DTVPAL DVR CAN be set to output 16:9 SDTV on the composite video.

For those interested.
I did some signal strength readings on it with my Trilithic Model Two.

The DVR puts out an analog signal of 5.0dBmV on channel 3

I scanned signal strength on local analog channels before and after pressing the analog pass thru button.

2 before DVR 14.0dBmV---------->2 after DVR 15.7dBmV
4 before DVR 13.9dBmV---------->4 after DVR 16.8dBmV
5 before DVR 13.4dBmV---------->5 after DVR 17.5dBmV
9 before DVR 23.7dBmV---------->9 after DVR 27.6dBmV
11 before DVR 19.7dBmV---------->11 after DVR 24.3dBmV
17 before DVR 11.4dBmV---------->17 after DVR 13.6dBmV
23 before DVR 15.6dBmV---------->23 after DVR 19.6dBmV
29 before DVR 13.7dBmV---------->29 after DVR 16.0dBmV
45 before DVR 2.5dBmV---------->45 after DVR 5.9dBmV


Power level readings on local Digital channels also went up after pressing the analog pass thru button.

14 before DVR -8.4dBmV---------->14 after DVR -4.9dBmV
16 before DVR -0.1dBmV---------->16 after DVR 1.8dBmV
22 before DVR 12.6dBmV---------->22 after DVR 15.6dBmV
32 before DVR 3.3dBmV---------->32 after DVR 6.8dBmV
34 before DVR 3.5dBmV---------->34 after DVR 6.8dBmV
35 before DVR 1.7dBmV---------->35 after DVR 4.8dBmV
44 before DVR -9.7dBmV---------->44 after DVR -7.3dBmV
50 before DVR -7.0dBmV---------->50 after DVR -3.6dBmV

Those of you that were worried about signal loss thru the unit appear to be in good shape (skip the splitter and use the pass thru)

Regarding this being my first post........I have been watching this forum for at least 6 months, and pre orderd the unit at 6am the first day.

I know that this info may not be usefull to all of you but I figured I would put my 2 cents in.

By the Way I flipped my smart card over (have not used it yet) before powering up the unit for the first time, and I also have not done any firmware updates.

No Pesky lockups for me yet.

I did get a warning that a show was not recorded because of an error in signal.....But I watched it and it was fine.


Keep up the good work!!! all of you, and someone please get the external USB storage option working..

S

...
It is strange that I cannot even get one channel.
Any ideas out there????
Couple of obvious things to check.

Connect the cable you have going to the DVR to the TV to make sure you are getting a signal to the end of the cable, reconnect and then do another scan. When you click analog pass-through you should see all the digital channels on your TV. The fact that you don't seems to be a key piece of data.
Make sure you are connected to the input, not the output.

It's only 1 year old, emerson 19" sold at walmart last black friday. It does HD fine using the antenna but no other way.
component video cable connection
NOTE:
1) UNIT ACCEPTS 480I/480P/SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE
2) SIMPLIFIED 1080I VIDEO SINGLE DIFFERS TO ORIGiNAL 1080I BECAUSE IT'S DISPLAYED AFTER CONVERTED INTO 480P
Emerson
19" WXGA+ LCD Display
Resolution WXGA (1440 x 900)
3D Digital Comb Filter
Built-in ATSC/NTSC Tuner (HD Quality Output)

With a 19" screen it's not going to matter much how it's hooked up. Larger screens tend to suffer more from low resolution inputs. If you have the space/desire look into a Used rear projection TV. They aren't the "in thing" anymore and you probably can pick one up for close to what you paid for the 19". I bought my Mitsubishi WS65513 65" HDTV for $100 last April, all it needed was the DM caps replaced ($20 worth of parts).

I first thought I had a bad cable.
I disconnected the coax from the VCR that was working and installed the coax on the DVR. No channels.
I then took the coax that was supplied with the unit and used it.
Still no channels.
I tried connnecting the antenna to the TV output of the box just in case they assembled the box wrong. Still no channels.
I am not sure the analog bypass was working since it appears that none of the buttons except the select and arrows and info buttons appear to work.
I cannot even get the power button to work.
I am going to try again tomorrow.
I told the dish guy that I would call back on Monday during working hours for some better technical help.
Then comes the long drawn out process of return, repair, refurb or whatever.
All I know is that the Mrs. wants to record her new shows when analog goes away in February.

My TV is a Sony KDS-50A2000. I found the tuner performance of the DVR to be nearly identical to the Sony both in sensitivity and multipath performance. I was hoping it would have been a little better but at least it's not worse.

The AGC level shown on the Sony (Diagnostic screen) shows that there is a little amplification through the pass-through port on the DVR even when it's turned off. I think a previous poster measured this. There seems to be no degradation of the passed through signal to my TV. This is good because it makes the setup cleaner and easy to switch between the DVR tuner and the Sony tuner.

There appears to be no way to tune to a channel that hasn't been scanned in first. This is quite inconvenient to check to see if a "part time" channel is coming in but it's unlikely I'd be recording those anyway and the Sony is very good in this regard.

No TVGOS data yet. I hope it shows up overnight because some of my Sacramento locals are providing no PSIP program info.

This is a nit but I'm not so enthused having to push 5 digits for direct channel entry.

I've barely had a chance to record anything but I like what I've seen so far.

How would you all characterize the noise produced by the DTVPal DVR ? Do you notice it? Is it bothersome? If it is bothersome, from what distance?

If you previously owned a DVR, how does the noise from the DTVPal DVR compare to that?

Standing next to the DVR, I definitely notice a hum. The machine also has a slight vibration when you touch it -- even when it's "off".

This is the first DVR I've ever owned, so I'm guessing this is common. I don't notice the hum at all when I'm at a TV-watching distance.

Just a quick note. I sent the following question to Dish Network support regarding the DTVPal DVR:

"When will firmware be listed online for download via USB? Are there any release notes you have regarding the current version downloaded by ethernet? Any ideas what the plans are for the ethernet and usb? Thanks!"

Here is the Dish Network support response:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your email. I’ll be happy to assist you with your software questions. There is no current release date for new software. The Ethernet connection and USB will be used for software upgrades. There are no other plans for those ports at this time.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/techchatadvcustformrf23.shtml

Thank you,

Shane D.

DISH Network Technical E-care


For those of you having issues, there appears to be a live 24 hour chat available. I know kyboman is having issues, may be worth a shot. Whether they can diagnose and fix his issue is another story.

Yes the chat I believe is the best source, I had tried phone, email, and chat when trying to get info on when my unit would be delivered, only the chat guy seamed to be giving me strait answers.

Kyboman,

could it be posible that yourr coax in and coax out are switched?

Can someone identify the part numbers of the two IC's near the SATA connector?

Those says
-------
AMD
218T316ZLA12GP
P35786.00
0750SS
------

I'm guessing these are their 'Theatre' demods.

I did get a warning that a show was not recorded because of an error in signal.....But I watched it and it was fine.

I get this message frequently when starting a recording, but the whole show has been there every time so far.

There appears to be no way to tune to a channel that hasn't been scanned in first. This is quite inconvenient to check to see if a "part time" channel is coming in but it's unlikely I'd be recording those anyway and the Sony is very good in this regard.


Mine just seams to find channels by itself. Frequently when I have turned it on, it announces that it found new services. There were for very weak stations that I normally can't get. It must briefly see a signal enough to get the station ID and add the station. The signal is not strong enough to see these channels though.

It found all but one station in my area so far. It even found a station at channel 4, which is fairly far away and my antenna isn't for lo-VHF. I was surprised to find in my guide last night. Edit: Overnight it found the last station but not enough to identify it by channel number/station ID, only the actual channel and that it had 3 sub-channels (10-1, 10-2, 10-3).

No TVGOS data yet. I hope it shows up overnight because some of my Sacramento locals are providing no PSIP program info.


Make sure you set the zipcode to the area of the stations and not necessary your actual zip. I initialized used my actual zip - nothing after 2 days. I changed it to the alternate zip listed in the manual - nothing after 2 more days. Once I set it to the actual zip for the stations I wanted, then the 7 day finally was populated.

This is a nit but I'm not so enthused having to push 5 digits for direct channel entry.


Don't enter so many digits. You don't need leading zeros and you don't need the two sub-channel digits if you want the primary channel. For example, I have channel 2 in my area, I could enter 00201, but just hitting 2 and waiting a second or two works also. Same for two digits stations, just enter the two digits.

Those says
-------
AMD
218T316ZLA12GP
P35786.00
0750SS
------

I'm guessing these are their 'Theatre' demods.Good guess. ;)

The TivoHD uses the Theater314 and it actually says that on the chip (high res picture (http://www.gizmolovers.com.nyud.net/Photos/TiVoHD-Review/Large/TiVoHD-inside-15.jpg)). However, it also has very similar part number -- 218T314ZGA21G. It looks like the DTVPal DVR is using a newer Theater316 variant, not yet listed on the AMD/ATI site.

Edit: Some searching reveals that the Pinnacle HD Ultimate Stick (http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+Flash_TV+Stick/PCTV+HD+Ultimate+Stick.htm) also uses the AMD/ATI T316 demodulator to support both ATSC and ClearQAM.

The TivoHD uses the Theater314 and it actually says that on the chip (high res picture). However, it also has very similar part number -- 218T314ZGA21G. It looks like the DTVPal DVR is using a newer Theater316 variant, not yet listed on the AMD/ATI site.

Edit: Some searching reveals that the Pinnacle HD Ultimate Stick also uses the AMD/ATI T316 demodulator to support both ATSC and ClearQAM.
Check the Broadcom sight - AMD sold it's DTV division to them.

Mine just seams to find channels by itself. Frequently when I have turned it on, it announces that it found new services. There were for very weak stations that I normally can't get. It must briefly see a signal enough to get the station ID and add the station. The signal is not strong enough to see these channels though.

It found all but one station in my area so far. It even found a station at channel 4, which is fairly far away and my antenna isn't for lo-VHF. I was surprised to find in my guide last night.



Make sure you set the zipcode to the area of the stations and not necessary your actual zip. I initialized used my actual zip - nothing after 2 days. I changed it to the alternate zip listed in the manual - nothing after 2 more days. Once I set it to the actual zip for the stations I wanted, then the 7 day finally was populated.



Don't enter so many digits. You don't need leading zeros and you don't need the two sub-channel digits if you want the primary channel. For example, I have channel 2 in my area, I could enter 00201, but just hitting 2 and waiting a second or two works also. Same for two digits stations, just enter the two digits.

or you could just do "2" Select and it would quickly jump to 2-1. This also works on the DTVPAL's.

I have mine up and running. I placed it in my entertainment center. On a shelf - behind glass. The manual warned against this because heat could be a problem. There was no good place outside of the enclosure. I think the air temp is about 80 in there. Is that a problem? With all electronics, the cooler the better. I put mine in my entertainment center and I am planning to put in a fan in the cabinet. You can use PC fans or you can buy specialty fans. I actually use a PC fan and an old cell phone charger with some wirenuts for my aquarium. You shouldn't need that much air movement for the DVR (I haven't found that it gets overly hot) so I would just find a quiet solution. Face the fan to draw out the air from the cabinet.

There are also products that control fans when it reads a specified temperature. I'm sure there is plenty of info on the board.

I chatted online with Tier 2 technical support. They blame my antenna (or in my case, both of them). He suggested taking the box to a local dish distributer who may have an OTA antenna to try out the box.

He did state that the power button will not work until the box goes thru its initial configuration and that this is consistent with their other models.

I did triple check to make sure I hooked the antenna coax to the correct jack on the box and even tried the other jack just to make sure the box wasn't internally miswired.

I have mine up and running. I placed it in my entertainment center. On a shelf - behind glass. The manual warned against this because heat could be a problem. There was no good place outside of the enclosure. I think the air temp is about 80 in there. Is that a problem?

If it's 80 in the cabinet, the internal temperature of the unit is likely 15-20 degrees warmer - That's not good if you are looking for longevity on this unit, or the rest of your gear. Find a couple of of computer case fans that you can install in the back of your cabinet - their quiet, and consume very little power.

I chatted online with Tier 2 technical support. They blame my antenna (or in my case, both of them). He suggested taking the box to a local dish distributer who may have an OTA antenna to try out the box.

He did state that the power button will not work until the box goes thru its initial configuration and that this is consistent with their other models.

I did triple check to make sure I hooked the antenna coax to the correct jack on the box and even tried the other jack just to make sure the box wasn't internally miswired.

Describe your antenna setup...and have you checked out AntennaWeb.org? Are you using an amplifier? - even at 30 miles from the transmitters, you may be over powering the digital tuner in the DTV DVR. Upplug any antenna/coax amplifiers

Describe your antenna setup...and have you checked out AntennaWeb.org? Are you using an amplifier? - even at 30 miles from the transmitters, you may be over powering the digital tuner in the DTV DVR. Upplug any antenna/coax amplifiers

A quick fix for you if your signal is to hot.

Run the incoming coax from the wall to a splitter (input) then (output) to the input on the DVR.
This should drop your signal about 7dB.

S

When I see "component video input" - I'm thinking 3 RCA jacks color coded Red Green blue (commonly refered to as Y Pb Pr). I don't know what to make of that "Simplified component" video cable comment - is that a single Yellow RCA jack ? Fortunately, The DTVPAL DVR CAN be set to output 16:9 SDTV on the composite video.

Emerson 19" HDTV model#: LC195EM8
Video 2: Componet (Y/Pb/Pr), Audio (L/R)
Video 1: S-Video, Video, Audio (L/R)

I'm a Dish subscriber with a 722 DVR, love the thing, we've had it for almost a year now. I've been looking for some kind of DVR for my parents for years now. Currently they use a series of VHS players hooked to several TVs.(They had bad luck with a DVD recorder so they don't even use the one they have. They don't want or have dish, cable or high speed internet, and they just bought an Sony LCD. This looks perfect. Same great interface as our 722,(the timer things sucks though) but no monthly fees. I'll be ordering it this week for them.

Here's my question for you guys. The roof antennae is wired into the basement through an amplifier/splitter, then to several TVs in the house. I had to plug in the amplifier to get all the channels to come in on their TV, and I had to reroute it around their VCR.(not surprising) I bought a two way splitter to go to the TV and DVD recorder, but it only gets about half of the channels. I'm not sure if this is a cable problem or what?

So my question is, can I get some kind of splitter to run the output of the DVR back into the coax, so the DVR can be used on the other TVs? I know Dish does this with their receivers, but I'm not sure it would work on channel 3 or what?

I chatted online with Tier 2 technical support. They blame my antenna (or in my case, both of them). He suggested taking the box to a local dish distributer who may have an OTA antenna to try out the box.

He did state that the power button will not work until the box goes thru its initial configuration and that this is consistent with their other models.

I did triple check to make sure I hooked the antenna coax to the correct jack on the box and even tried the other jack just to make sure the box wasn't internally miswired.

Do you see any image on the screen?

Even if it finds no channels, I would think you should still be able to get to the menu. I am using a powered antenna, but it is split when it comes into the house. Try removing the powered amplifier between the antenna and the line and just connect the antenna without amplifier to the antenna input jack and try again. I would think the unit works especially if you can see the menus.

If the unit does not even boot or you can't get to the setup screen, then I think your unit may be hosed.

So my question is, can I get some kind of splitter to run the output of the DVR back into the coax, so the DVR can be used on the other TVs? I know Dish does this with their receivers, but I'm not sure it would work on channel 3 or what?

The box has a coax out and in the set-up you specify channel 3 or 4. Others have reported that all outputs are active at the same time. I would think that you could run the coax out to another TV.

Of course, you would need a way to control the box in another room (RF Remote) and you would see the same thing on both TV's. (Can't use the second tuner on another TV).

Still no luck getting the full guide. I live in the Cleveland market(44135) and I tried other ZIP codes for this area and the substitute ZIP but I only get 10-11 hours ahead except the CBS station that gets 24-36 hours. No TV Guide logo on screen.
I don't want to use the TVGOS setting because I want to record to the Pal's hard drive only, not another device.