The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! [Text View] - Page 29

bfdtv

09-08-09, 07:40 PM

hoping for a new AppleTV Announcment tomorrow... maybe with a tuner and DVR... if so...I am probably going to return my Pal DVR to sears... lets see...According to this article (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/08/dont_expect_apple_tv_as_cable_set_top_box_apple_exec_says.ht ml), Apple has no intention of adding tuners or record functionality to their platform. Their focus is on the Apple Store and pay "season passes."

I don't consider that a reputable site, but they do quote a reputable source.

AppleTV is HD? I thought it was SD only, or maybe HD Lite (I.e. less than DVD bitrate)The AppleTV supports 720p downloads from the Apple store. Apple's 720p24 downloads use MPEG-4 @ 4Mbps.

From iTunes and/or AppleTV, you purchase a "season pass" to a high-definition television series for $30 to $55 (varies by show). Then new episodes are downloaded as they become available. This provides DVR-type functionality, except each HD episode is downloaded for a fee.

TiVo offers the same feature, except using Amazon's 1080p downloads. Amazon offers 1080p24 downloads in MPEG-4 @ 5.0 Mbps with DD5.1 audio. No TiVo user is likely to purchase a season pass for a ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC series, but some OTA-only users may purchase season passes to cable shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or The Closer. You can see a listing here (http://www.amazon.com/Video-On-Demand/b/ref=amb_link_83830851_6?ie=UTF8&node=16261631&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=top-1&pf_rd_r=0DJBDSCEBPH2QQAWS9JY&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=471399911&pf_rd_i=video%20on%20demand%20free1).

Apple and Amazon offer most shows from ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, TNT, USA, SyFy, AMC, and a host of other networks, with new episodes available about 24 hours after they air. Neither offers episodes of HBO/Showtime series until the seasons are over.

sivartk

09-08-09, 09:16 PM

The AppleTV supports 720p downloads from the Apple store. Apple's 720p24 downloads use MPEG-4 @ 4Mbps.

HD light, just like I thought. But I guess if it is good enough for the masses, the rest of us must learn to love the smell of crap ;)

Even my OTA feeds come in as 720p or 1080i with at least 12Mbps..that is on channels with a sub-channel, too....plus I have to pay to watch each episode...let me guess it requires me to install itunes...does that install natively in Ubuntu...no...pass.

bfdtv

09-08-09, 10:25 PM

HD light, just like I thought. But I guess if it is good enough for the masses, the rest of us must learn to love the smell of crap ;)I would expect the next AppleTV model to feature a faster processor with 1080p support. Soon thereafter, Apple may make popular shows available for purchase in 1080p24.

Even my OTA feeds come in as 720p or 1080i with at least 12Mbps..that is on channels with a sub-channel, too....plus I have to pay to watch each episode...let me guess it requires me to install itunes...does that install natively in Ubuntu...no...pass.I haven't seen the AppleTV in action since they added pay "season passes," but I'd guess that you can order them directly from the box without iTunes.

MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 bitrates aren't directly comparable (the latter is 30-40% more efficient), but you are right, OTA usually provides better quality than you can get with these pay downloads.

jrn23

09-08-09, 10:36 PM

Here in El Paso Texas I get TVGOS listings for CBS, ABC, NBC and PBS. Only get PSIP for FOX and no listings for any sub channels. maybe FOX is having a nationwide problem.

Hmmmm.... Interesting you should mention this. Since receiving my PAL-DVR Christmas Eve, I have always gotten my major stations, including PBS, Fox, etc. etc., guide data from TVGOS. Since the end of the TV season last spring my DVR has gotten almost zero use. It did get it's Firmware update to F208 when that came out, but that was about all the use it got.

Recently I upgrade the hard drive in prep for the fall season and began using the DVR a bit more, BTW Craig Ferguson is in HD now. ;) However I am now noticing that my Fox affiliate is only approx. 24 hrs of TV Guide (aka PSIP). I contacted a friend in the same area, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and is seeing the same issue.

Could this be a F208 issue? I never had this problem with F206?

rhaben

09-08-09, 10:57 PM

I've been having a problem with TVGOS as well here in the Raleigh NC area. I get the info for CBS, ABC, PBS and a few of the "lesser" channels. I just tried the resetting to the factory defaults as recommended here. We'll see if that helps tomorrow morning.

akbungle

09-08-09, 11:49 PM

I believe the drive spins up normally under many modern Linux versions, so if you normally run Linux and have a recent BIOS it is not an issue. Several Linux distributions such as Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) allow you to run Linux from CD only without actually installing Linux on the hard drive.

In addition to the other ways already posted, it looks like the power-up in standby feature can also be turned off when running Linux so the drive can spin up and be seen normally in Windows. Clicking the Applications / Accessories / Terminal icon opens up a window similar to a DOS command prompt window. Typing "sudo fdisk -l" (without the quotes, and l is a lower case L) lists the hard drives installed - the 250 GB one should have a device name like /dev/sda or similiar. I was able to disable the power-up in standby feature on mine with "sudo hdparm -s 0 /dev/sdX" (replace /dev/sdX with the one shown in the fdisk command). Standard disclaimer applies.

According to the hdparm man page (instructions), the power-on in standby feature is used primarily when there are multiple things sharing a small power supply, to allow drives to not try to start their power up spin up at the exact same time, which may require more power to do simultaneously than the power supply can provide.

Am I correct to assume you can't get into this though windows? I did some research and that is all I could find as well. There is an actual ISO you can run called: turn_off_poweron_in_standby but again it is for Linux and I'm afraid of Linux:o but this would be great to know since I'm planning to harvest my other 250GB HDD as well. Any tips?

RTK

09-09-09, 02:41 AM

other than firmware updates, is there a benefit to keeping it connected to the internet?

allen98311

09-09-09, 03:44 AM

Am I correct to assume you can't get into this though windows? I did some research and that is all I could find as well. There is an actual ISO you can run called: turn_off_poweron_in_standby but again it is for Linux and I'm afraid of Linux:o but this would be great to know since I'm planning to harvest my other 250GB HDD as well. Any tips?

Post #6913 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17102851&postcount=6913) tells you how you can use the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic to configure the HDD. I don't know if this will work because my BIOS was also not seeing the HDD.

Post #6988 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17134992&postcount=6988) tells you how to use Linux to configure the HDD. I used this method because I already had the boot disk.

allen98311

09-09-09, 03:47 AM

other than firmware updates, is there a benefit to keeping it connected to the internet?

Not currently. You can also keep it plugged in so you don't see the annoying pop-up that says that you are not connected to the internet. (I haven't seen this for a while for some reason, I think that it happens when recording two shows and watching a third. Maybe I will start seeing the pop-up again when the fall season starts.)

Chuck44

09-09-09, 07:13 AM

If you disable Updates in settings you'll never see that popup.

akbungle

09-09-09, 07:42 AM

Post #6913 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17102851&postcount=6913) tells you how you can use the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic to configure the HDD. I don't know if this will work because my BIOS was also not seeing the HDD.

Post #6988 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17134992&postcount=6988) tells you how to use Linux to configure the HDD. I used this method because I already had the boot disk.

The first option does not stick, It looks like it works and shows up and you can transfer data to it BUT when you reboot BAM nothing the drive is no longer recognized.:(

The second option is what I was looking for some tips on. Like for instance could I just try and run the Ubuntu strictly from the CD and then use a USB stick with the ISO I mentioned on my last post to run a "dumbed down" version of what OTAviewer suggested in post 6988?
Thanks

ravichander

09-09-09, 08:08 AM

Have you disabled updates?

Thank you. I did not notice that the updates were being enabled ( wonder if I did that while playing around with the remote or if it was the default option)

frank70

09-09-09, 08:13 AM

Hmmmm.... Interesting you should mention this. Since receiving my PAL-DVR Christmas Eve, I have always gotten my major stations, including PBS, Fox, etc. etc., guide data from TVGOS. Since the end of the TV season last spring my DVR has gotten almost zero use. It did get it's Firmware update to F208 when that came out, but that was about all the use it got.

Recently I upgrade the hard drive in prep for the fall season and began using the DVR a bit more, BTW Craig Ferguson is in HD now. ;) However I am now noticing that my Fox affiliate is only approx. 24 hrs of TV Guide (aka PSIP). I contacted a friend in the same area, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and is seeing the same issue.

Could this be a F208 issue? I never had this problem with F206?Here in Philadelphia with F208, Fox is just fine (8-days TVGOS) on the Pal DVR. It is only PBS and ION that show PSIP-only listings in spite of TVGOS carrying those stations. I've tried a Philadelphia zip code and a Wilmington DE zip code (WHYY broadcasts from Philly, but is licensed as a Delaware station.) Neither zip code change produced any change (improvement or otherwise) in the 8-day listings after several days.

The other PBS stations here are across just the river in Camden and Trenton NJ. Absolutely no reason they wouldn't be in the Philly market either.

tzdvl

09-09-09, 08:21 AM

TVGOS in the Dayton, Ohio area...

Just a quick check:

Is anyone receiving TVGOS from WHIO on their DTVPal? It's been MIA, again, for about a week now on mine!

Thanks!

Ken

ravichander

09-09-09, 08:23 AM

CamperMan

09-09-09, 09:22 AM

bfdtv

09-09-09, 09:26 AM

It appears that TVGOS in this DVR does not give me an idea if the program is broadcast in HD or not. My PBS sometimes broadcasts the same program in different sub channels ( like Nature) and one is not sure on which day and which channel will it be broadcast in HD. Other that Titan TV how do I find this info so that I can record the HD version?You'll just have to check the subchannels to find which is HD. All HD programs are broadcast on one subchannel, so you just have to watch that.

With a name-based DVR, you could create a series recording for the same program on multiple channels, and prioritize the HD version above the SD version; that way, the DVR always record the HD version when available (ignoring the SD version), and only records the SD version when the program is not showing in HD within a 14-day period. You can't do this with time-based DVRs, which don't look at the guide data to make record "decisions."

I'm wondering if there is some confusion about the updates option.
I've seen it posted many times to turn this off to get rid of the connection error
message, but in the help menu for the updates option it states that this is for the
scheduling of program guide updates.That help description is wrong (forum consensus).

Chuck44

09-09-09, 11:13 AM

I'm wondering if there is some confusion about the updates option.
I've seen it posted many times to turn this off to get rid of the connection error
message, but in the help menu for the updates option it states that this is for the
scheduling of program guide updates.
As posted before, the manual (help file) is in error. The Updates option is ONLY for firmware updates through an Ethernet connection.
The program guide updates OTA, not through the Internet.

allen98311

09-09-09, 01:55 PM

If you disable Updates in settings you'll never see that popup.

OK, that's what I did.

akbungle

09-09-09, 03:41 PM

Yay this works and sticks for utilizing the 250GB HDD harvested from the PAL DVR!!!:D:D:D:D(so far at least;))

Thanks so much otaviewer for the extremely easy instructions. At first I was a bit put off since Linux was involved but decided to go for it and in fact if Lunix was supported by MajicJack I would have been quite happy leaving Ubuntu on this machine (much easier that the last time I tried fiddling with Linux:)).
This is great news for me as I upgraded my first PAL DVR to a 1tb and now I've switched my 500GB that was in my music server only using around 120GB with the harvested 250GB from the PAL DVR which frees up the 500GB to switch out my other PAL DVR!!!!:D:D:D:D

I believe the drive spins up normally under many modern Linux versions, so if you normally run Linux and have a recent BIOS it is not an issue. Several Linux distributions such as Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download) allow you to run Linux from CD only without actually installing Linux on the hard drive.

In addition to the other ways already posted, it looks like the power-up in standby feature can also be turned off when running Linux so the drive can spin up and be seen normally in Windows. Clicking the Applications / Accessories / Terminal icon opens up a window similar to a DOS command prompt window. Typing "sudo fdisk -l" (without the quotes, and l is a lower case L) lists the hard drives installed - the 250 GB one should have a device name like /dev/sda or similiar. I was able to disable the power-up in standby feature on mine with "sudo hdparm -s 0 /dev/sdX" (replace /dev/sdX with the one shown in the fdisk command). Standard disclaimer applies.

According to the hdparm man page (instructions), the power-on in standby feature is used primarily when there are multiple things sharing a small power supply, to allow drives to not try to start their power up spin up at the exact same time, which may require more power to do simultaneously than the power supply can provide.

WillN937

09-09-09, 04:26 PM

TVGOS in the Dayton, Ohio area...

Just a quick check:

Is anyone receiving TVGOS from WHIO on their DTVPal? It's been MIA, again, for about a week now on mine!

Thanks!

Ken
Nope:(

There was an earlier post that said that some of the TVGOS encoders were being taken off line because they were causing problems with one type of CECB.

WillN937

09-09-09, 04:30 PM

Super_Chachi

09-09-09, 04:53 PM

So after catching up on all 235 pages, I took the plunge and upgraded from F201 to F208 to eliminate the intermittent reboots. I'm not sure who said that the upgrade didn't erase settings and delete timers (don't have the heart to re-read), but F208 nuked everything as if I just pulled this thing out of the box. Timers are gone, channels, settings are gone, and now I even lost TVGOS. Hopefully I'll get TVGOS back tonight when it does it's midnight update so I can program all my shows again.

bfdtv

09-09-09, 04:56 PM

Scooper

09-09-09, 06:59 PM

frank70

09-09-09, 07:48 PM

It appears that TVGOS in this DVR does not give me an idea if the program is broadcast in HD or not. My PBS sometimes broadcasts the same program in different sub channels ( like Nature) and one is not sure on which day and which channel will it be broadcast in HD. Other that Titan TV how do I find this info so that I can record the HD version?TVGOS does provide this info (because my Sony DVR displays it as an HD indicator), but the DTVPal DVR simply discards it. Your best bet is to use the HD subchannel (or subchannels - see next post); your TV should be able to tell you, as you tune from subchannel to subchannel without the DVR, which subchannels are 1080i or 720p (HD) or 480i (SD). Even so, many shows broadcast on an HD subchannel are simply SD programming that's been up-sampled to 1080i or 720p and centered on the screen by the station. The TVGOS data (discarded by the DTVPal DVR) does indeed distinguish between SD programming and HD programming, but alas you cannot see that with this DVR.

frank70

09-09-09, 10:00 PM

You'll just have to check the subchannels to find which is HD. All HD programs are broadcast on one subchannel, so you just have to watch that.Not always true... in Philadelphia, WPVI broadcasts two 720p HD subchannels (6.1 and 6.2), plus one 480i SD subchannel (6.3). Given the fixed bandwidth of one TV channel, that takes much of the "H" out of the two HD subchannels, but that was their choice.

Scooper

09-09-09, 10:09 PM

cheaplikeafox

09-09-09, 10:34 PM

techweb

09-10-09, 06:07 AM

Here in Philadelphia with F208, Fox is just fine (8-days TVGOS) on the Pal DVR. It is only PBS and ION that show PSIP-only listings in spite of TVGOS carrying those stations. I've tried a Philadelphia zip code and a Wilmington DE zip code (WHYY broadcasts from Philly, but is licensed as a Delaware station.) Neither zip code change produced any change (improvement or otherwise) in the 8-day listings after several days.

The other PBS stations here are across just the river in Camden and Trenton NJ. Absolutely no reason they wouldn't be in the Philly market either.
In the Cleveland-Akron DMA, I get TVGOS data for two PBS stations, ABC, NBC, and Fox, but not for CBS. I don't know about the CW, My TV, and Univision stations since I rarely watch them.

Kelson

09-10-09, 07:54 AM

so are there not any refurbished DTVPal DVRs for sale? you would think so since there were so many problems with these units...but I wonder what refurbished dtvpal dvrs warranties would be like...1 month?

also, i noticed digitalstar is selling them for $250 + $9 shipping. I guess that's the best deal out there currently. Hopefully amazon will bring it back down to $250 sometime.Given Dish's no-return policy on the Pal DVR, where would the stock for "refurb" units come from? And even so, would you trust a Dish refurb to be anything more than a re-taped box.

It has been established that the Pal DVR's being sold by Sears at full price have the latest F208 firmware which implies a new production run (which may have changed/tweaked some hardware in addition to the new firmware). So in the near term one should question whether these deal sites selling for $250 are just clearing old F206 stock. This is only an issue if some hardware was improved in the Sear's models, which has not been established -- but it is something to keep in mind.

Kelson

09-10-09, 07:59 AM

Not always true... in Philadelphia, WPVI broadcasts two 720p HD subchannels (6.1 and 6.2), plus one 480i SD subchannel (6.3). Given the fixed bandwidth of one TV channel, that takes much of the "H" out of the two HD subchannels, but that was their choice.So that is why the PQ of 6.1 has been lacking. I'll have to check this out. I generally ignore all the SD sub-channels and hide them on my channel list. I'll have to re-enable 6.2 and take a look if there is anything there worth watching.

edit: forget it. I just scanned through the TV guide listings to see the primetime "programming" (and I use that term loosely) on 6.2 over the next 2 weeks and reaffirmed to myself why I ignore the drek on sub-channels. What a pile of sub-channel crap and a silly waste of HD bandwidth.

DB100

09-10-09, 08:05 AM

I have one antenna going to a Pal Plus converter box-Panasonic Recorder-TV. I only record stuff from channel 39 (FOX) here. 39 is my weakest channel and for some reason this antenna/Pal converter seem to pull it in better. My other antenna goes to my Pal DVR and records everything else in HDef.

Last night I went to watch something from the 39 recordings and I noticed that live TV had no picture, only sound. My last 3 recordings were only sound. So I started checking the video cable from the Panasonic to the TV. I switched from Out 1 to Out 2 on the Panasonic. Still no picture. I tried connecting an S-Video cable. Still no picture. Finally, I had an older, backup DTVPal converter box, so I switched it with the one I was using. That did it. Got my picture back. The video in the one converter box seems to have gone bad. Now I get to go to Sears and see if I can get a refund for the bad converter.

allanlaw

09-10-09, 11:32 AM

TVGOS does provide this info (because my Sony DVR displays it as an HD indicator), but the DTVPal DVR simply discards it.I wonder whether the 2004 license agreement between Echostar and Gemstar, whereby Echostar got various long-term rights to use TV Guide material, requires the stripped-down TVGOS presentation from our DTVPal boxes. :confused:

trp2525

09-10-09, 03:31 PM

I have been following this thread since its inception and I have noticed some postings recently about forum members losing TVGOS in their area. Well today I noticed that I lost my TVGOS in my F208 DTVPal DVR but my F201 DTVPal DVR still has TVGOS. Both DVRs are hooked up to the same rooftop antenna via a 2-way splitter so I'm wondering if something in F208 is causing the loss of TVGOS.

I'm actually in the Providence, RI DMA but I also receive multiple stations from the Boston, MA DMA. I have two TVGOS stations that I receive-one from the Providence DMA (PBS channel 36) and one from the Boston DMA (CBS channel 4). I'm not sure which station the DVR actually uses for its TVGOS data when it has multiple sources available to it. Perhaps it uses your zip code to decide on which TVGOS station to use.

I did a factory reset a few hours ago on the F208 DVR and as of right now I do not have the time set from TV Guide and I have no TVGOS icon showing in my program guide. My F201 DVR shows the time has been acquired from TV Guide and the TV Guide icon is showing in my program guide. Something is going on here in F208 that is not happening in F201. :confused: I'm just glad I never updated my F201 DVR as it has had TVGOS since I installed it in December and has never lost it in 9 months!

Update: After two and a half hours from factory reset I now have time acquired from TV Guide on my F208 DVR but still have no TV Guide icon showing in the program guide.

golinux

09-10-09, 03:52 PM

Something is going on here in F208 that is not happening in F201. :confused: I'm just glad I never updated my F201 DVR as it has had TVGOS since I installed it in December and has never lost it in 9 months!
Thanks for your discovery. I am also still getting TVGOS on F201 and F206. So glad that I didn't upgrade to F208.

Chuck44

09-10-09, 04:05 PM

Thanks for your discovery. I am also still getting TVGOS on F201 and F206. So glad that I didn't upgrade to F208.
I get TVGOS just fine with F208. :cool:

el gran chico

09-10-09, 04:34 PM

We are now in the 2nd longest period between firmware updates (assuming there will be another) - the longest being between F201/F202 and F206 (that was about 3.5 months for the first guys that got this box - hard to differentiate F201 and F202 since F202 was more or less available immediately).

The wait between F206 and F207 was about a month. The wait between F207 and F208 was about 2 months.

F208 came out on July 9th, so we are just past 2 months now. I can only speculate what this means but I sure hope there is another update some day.

jrn23

09-10-09, 04:36 PM

I have been following this thread since its inception and I have noticed some postings recently about forum members losing TVGOS in their area. Well today I noticed that I lost my TVGOS in my F208 DTVPal DVR but my F201 DTVPal DVR still has TVGOS. Both DVRs are hooked up to the same rooftop antenna via a 2-way splitter so I'm wondering if something in F208 is causing the loss of TVGOS.

I'm actually in the Providence, RI DMA but I also receive multiple stations from the Boston, MA DMA. I have two TVGOS stations that I receive-one from the Providence DMA (PBS channel 36) and one from the Boston DMA (CBS channel 4). I'm not sure which station the DVR actually uses for its TVGOS data when it has multiple sources available to it. Perhaps it uses your zip code to decide on which TVGOS station to use.

I did a factory reset a few hours ago on the F208 DVR and as of right now I do not have the time set from TV Guide and I have no TVGOS icon showing in my program guide. My F201 DVR shows the time has been acquired from TV Guide and the TV Guide icon is showing in my program guide. Something is going on here in F208 that is not happening in F201. :confused: I'm just glad I never updated my F201 DVR as it has had TVGOS since I installed it in December and has never lost it in 9 months!

I don't think too many people are complaining about completely losing their TVGOS. I for one get all expected channels with the exception of Fox. This is an anomaly I have only noticed with F208.

If you are not receiving any TVGOS, or clock, you may want to check that you don't have TVGOS disabled for the PAL-DVR, a feature that was added in ?F206?.

OTA4ever

09-10-09, 06:56 PM

Chuck44

09-10-09, 07:08 PM

cheaplikeafox

09-10-09, 07:48 PM

Given Dish's no-return policy on the Pal DVR, where would the stock for "refurb" units come from? And even so, would you trust a Dish refurb to be anything more than a re-taped box.

It has been established that the Pal DVR's being sold by Sears at full price have the latest F208 firmware which implies a new production run (which may have changed/tweaked some hardware in addition to the new firmware). So in the near term one should question whether these deal sites selling for $250 are just clearing old F206 stock. This is only an issue if some hardware was improved in the Sear's models, which has not been established -- but it is something to keep in mind.

you brought up a good point...guess you can't get a refurb if you can't return it...but once they sell it at sears they'll have refurbs. Plus I remember people were getting refurbs when they were exchanging their units...how does that work then?

if it's the same hardware...might as well get the cheaper one and update it for free.

sivartk

09-10-09, 08:30 PM

Units returned under warranty are refurbished to current factory specs and sent out as a replacement for other units returned under warranty. These units have a warranty, albeit very short (90 days). You just can't return the unit for a refund.

Russell_

09-10-09, 09:06 PM

IlliniGuy99

09-10-09, 09:26 PM

I contacted Dish about my servere pixelation problem, and even tho I had my Pal since last Christmas, they sent me a refurbished unit to replace it. The refurb unit works great. It came with F207. They even sent it first, with a UPS shipping label so I could return my unit. I'm glad they were able to help me, even tho my unit was outside of their 90 day warranty.

How do you know it is a refurb? I just received a replacement Pal today. It came in a brown box, with only the Pal itself (which is all I had sent in, so no problem there). I suspect it's a refurb, but I'm not sure how I would know. I'm not sure I care, as long as it works, but I'm just curious. Mine also came with F207 installed.

Mine came with a UPS return label too. Too bad I had already paid to ship my old one back... I'll hold onto it just in case this one goes bad.

In any event, I'm glad to have my Pal back. I missed it! BTW, for those who may be curious, the turnaround time was 11 days from when I called Dish about replacing my defective Pal. I mailed it 2 days after calling. Not a bad turnaround time!

ABHiDef

09-11-09, 02:25 AM

So here's my initial experience with the DTVPal.

I bought it--2 actually, the other will be a Christmas gift--from Digital Star for $244.95 each and almost $17 for 3-day shipping. I also purchased 3-year extended warranties from SquareTrade for about $23 each (after coupon discounts). They were shipped in the manufacturer's boxes, separate from one another, but arrived at the same time on the expected day. Both boxes had obviously been cut open and retaped, but this was because they placed a packing slip in each box (I confirmed this with the store).

When I opened mine I found it wrapped in a plastic bag, not shrinkwrapped, and securely taped (VERY securely--the tape was incredibly sticky and ripped the bag several times as I removed it). It definitely had the new electronics smell that a previous poster mentioned. However, I did notice a strange half-circle mark on the bottom which made me question its newness (has anyone else experienced this?). I eventually concluded it was most likely a suction cup mark from the factory when the unit was being moved or packaged. It cleaned off rather easily and left just a faint trace that can only be seen in the right light/angle.

The credit card-like tuner card in front intrigued me as I've never been confronted with this and didn't realize it would be there. I actually pulled it out to learn what was it only to see it warns not to unnecessarily remove it! :p Seems like something they could have put where you could read it WHILE IT'S IN THE MACHINE. :confused:

I was just interested in a quick and dirty setup for now since a show I wanted to record was coming up, so I got out the Quick Start Guide and went to work. Hookup was pretty quick and easy. Right now I'm using the A/V cables it came with but I'll be getting and using an HDMI cable later on. I changed my TV's input and went through the Pal's Setup Wizard, also pretty quick. It grabbed the date and time fairly fast; it scanned for channels over several minutes, found 1 my TV hadn't--haven't checked it out yet to see what it is, not sure if it's just Tropo; and it grabbed the TVGOS almost instantly (I'm in the middle of the mitten, Elwell, MI).

I then brought up the Program Guide, selected the show I wanted to record, set its start time 3 minutes early, put the duration of the recording at 65 minutes, and it was done. A check of the system info showed it already has F208 installed. I pushed the remote's ANALOG PASS-THROUGH button, switched my TV's input back to the antenna, and turned off the Pal. At the appointed time a red light came on in the front, and it went off a little over an hour later, so the Pal recorded my show successfully.

A while later I noticed (and can still hear) its fan humming away; it's not terribly loud but it is noticeable. I'll have to see what it'll be like in the middle of the night when I go to sleep (it's in my bedroom).

So, even with what little I've done and gotten into as far as its capabilities I am DELIRIOUSLY, uproariously, giddily happy with this thing!! :D I can't wait to really put it through its paces and find out what it can do. And thanks once again for everyone's help here on this board, it's been educational both for trouble-shooting and deciding to purchase it. :)

Kelson

09-11-09, 07:37 AM

I bought it . . . from Digital Star for $244.95 each . . . A check of the system info showed it already has F208 installed.Excellent piece of information. So, it looks like Sears is not the only one getting units from the latest production run.

Super_Chachi

09-11-09, 10:11 AM

I get new stations every once in a while but when I delete that channel I never see it again unless I have do a rescan or reset to factory defaults. Anyway to prevent new stations from popping up automatically? Anytime we get a big storm, I pick up the tropo-stations...

Scooper

09-11-09, 11:05 AM

Anyway to prevent new stations from popping up automatically? Anytime we get a big storm, I pick up the tropo-stations...

No.

If you don't ever want to see them on your guide - Lock them out without deleting.

mangles

09-11-09, 04:42 PM

n75239

09-11-09, 04:59 PM

I haven't seen an update on the instructions for getting into the box to replace the drive so I decided to post what I did. I did everything in the above instructions except use a cotter pin. I used a small pocket knife. (Old Timer -4 inch blade). Push the blade straight down in the slot and it wil come in contact with a spring clip. At this spot the point of the blade is touching the spring clip and the surface the clip is resting on. Push farther. There is a little resistance. As the blade goes farther in between the clip is wedged farther from the base. The total distance the blade goes in after the initial contact is around 3/8 inch. While exerting pressure on the knife keep trying to separate the halves of the case. When the clip is far enough away from its resting place the case will come apart. Make sure you are doing this in the right holes.

Also does anyone know of any software that will permit one of the 250 gig sata drives to be reformated to a windows fat or ntfs. I have two computers that can use sata dirves and neither one will even recognize either of the ones I have.

Scooper

09-11-09, 05:29 PM

OTA4ever

09-11-09, 05:43 PM

Could you elaborate on how you were able to achieve this? Inquiring minds want to know :-).
I just used the online chat for Dish tech support. Then they called me back to say they would send me a unit. I was surprised to hear that they would send me a unit

ed_in_tx

09-11-09, 05:49 PM

If you are not receiving any TVGOS, or clock, you may want to check that you don't have TVGOS disabled for the PAL-DVR, a feature that was added in ?F206?. I did not see that when I was searching through the menus. Where is it?

OTA4ever

09-11-09, 05:49 PM

How do you know it is a refurb? I just received a replacement Pal today. It came in a brown box, with only the Pal itself (which is all I had sent in, so no problem there). I suspect it's a refurb, but I'm not sure how I would know. I'm not sure I care, as long as it works, but I'm just curious. Mine also came with F207 installed.

Mine came with a UPS return label too. Too bad I had already paid to ship my old one back... I'll hold onto it just in case this one goes bad.

In any event, I'm glad to have my Pal back. I missed it! BTW, for those who may be curious, the turnaround time was 11 days from when I called Dish about replacing my defective Pal. I mailed it 2 days after calling. Not a bad turnaround time!
It says remanufactured on the serial number label. They put the remanufactured units thru the same tests as new ones, so they should be almost as good as new. I'm just glad to have a unit that plays back without severe pixelation.

Chuck44

09-11-09, 06:05 PM

I did not see that when I was searching through the menus. Where is it?
Preferences, Guide Display.

otaviewer

09-11-09, 06:28 PM

Russell_

09-11-09, 08:57 PM

I then brought up the Program Guide, selected the show I wanted to record, set its start time 3 minutes early, put the duration of the recording at 65 minutes, and it was done. A check of the system info showed it already has F208 installed. I pushed the remote's ANALOG PASS-THROUGH button, switched my TV's input back to the antenna, and turned off the Pal. At the appointed time a red light came on in the front, and it went off a little over an hour later, so the Pal recorded my show successfully.

There no need to press ANALOG PASS-THROUGH in the above scenario. Just turn the PAL off and you'll be all set to tune your TV through it's antenna input (assuming the PAL is "between" the antenna and the TV).

jrn23

09-11-09, 09:54 PM

I did not see that when I was searching through the menus. Where is it?

Menu > Preferences > Guide Display > TV GUIDE <Enable>

ABHiDef

09-11-09, 10:25 PM

There no need to press ANALOG PASS-THROUGH in the above scenario. Just turn the PAL off and you'll be all set to tune your TV through it's antenna input (assuming the PAL is "between" the antenna and the TV).

Yes, I have since figured that out. ;) As I said, I was doing a quick and dirty setup to beat the start time of an upcoming show. Thanks for the tip.

akbungle

09-12-09, 08:02 AM

Also does anyone know of any software that will permit one of the 250 gig sata drives to be reformated to a windows fat or ntfs. I have two computers that can use sata dirves and neither one will even recognize either of the ones I have.

You need to do this first:
This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17134992#post17134992) might answer your question.

Then you can erase the HDD with this tool:

Step 2: Download Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic and create either a Floppy or CD Boot Disk, located here: http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=606&sid=2&lang=en or here: http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=606&sid=30&lang=en

Step 4: ...... Insert the Data Lifeguard Tools Floppy or CD and boot from that.
Step 5: Your computer will now show the Model # and info of the WD2500AAJS! Make sure you CONFIRM this hard drive as the one you wish to manipulate using the disk tools, then choose the option of writing ZEROS to the hard drive FULL DISK DELETION! NOTE: This process will take approx 18 hours so do this step OVERNIGHT!

I just did the quick version of writing the zeros that takes less then five minutes.
Then you can do this next step or just use windows tools to reformat the drive as NTFS or fat:

Step 3: Download and install Western Digital Data Lifeguard Tools 11 v 1.2 for WINDOWS located HERE: http://www.techspot.com/drivers/driver/file/information/7479/
NOTE: this is totally different from the boot disks tools.

Step 7: Boot Into Windows from your primary HDD as per normal startup, once in, Go to start> all programs> and enter the Western Digital Data Lifeguard tools software that you downloaded from Step 3. Go to Utilities and the software should prompt you to set up the AAJS for use within windows, since windows probably hasn't fully recognized it yet. Set up the hard drive for windows and your done!

ed_in_tx

09-12-09, 08:47 AM

If you are not receiving any TVGOS, or clock, you may want to check that you don't have TVGOS disabled...
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx
I did not see that when I was searching through the menus. Where is it?

Menu > Preferences > Guide Display > TV GUIDE <Enable>

Thanks. TV Guide is definitely enabled. Still not receiving any TVGOS data or logo.

WillN937

09-12-09, 11:08 AM

"I then brought up the Program Guide, selected the show I wanted to record, set its start time 3 minutes early, put the duration of the recording at 65 minutes, and it was done. A check of the system info showed it already has F208 installed. I pushed the remote's ANALOG PASS-THROUGH button, switched my TV's input back to the antenna, and turned off the Pal. At the appointed time a red light came on in the front, and it went off a little over an hour later, so the Pal recorded my show successfully."
There no need to press ANALOG PASS-THROUGH in the above scenario. Just turn the PAL off and you'll be all set to tune your TV through it's antenna input (assuming the PAL is "between" the antenna and the TV).

The default is to start recording a few minutes early and end a few minutes late. That is why some people have conflicts when they try to add a recording because what looks like two back to back recordings actually have an overlap to make sure the recorder gets both recordings if the clock is off (you can change the early start/late end in options if you wish).

In the case you describe you can continue to watch TV using the DVR since there are two tuners so you have the ability to pause and rewind "Live TV" or record what you are watching from when you started watching since it keeps up to a little over an hour in a buffer starting with when you changed channels.

WillN937

09-12-09, 11:14 AM

Yes, I have since figured that out. ;) As I said, I was doing a quick and dirty setup to beat the start time of an upcoming show. Thanks for the tip.

If you want to start a recording, just select it in the guide and press record or while watching it just press record. If you have been watching the program a little while it will ask if you want to record the remainder. You can go to options and it will allow you to record what you have already watched also.

LenL

09-12-09, 12:13 PM

According to Rabbit Ears website CBS 2.1 in NY City broadcasts TVGOS.

According to responses I received on a TVGOS question I posted a while back we don't have to do anything to receive TVGOS. If it is being transmitted we will pick it up with the PAL DVR.

So my question is why am I only getting the program guide that is not TVGOS? Do I actually have to make the PAL seek out the TVGOS? I know it is the standard EPG guide as there is no TV GUide logo.

Is anyone in the NY City area getting TVGOS?

Chuck44

09-12-09, 12:22 PM

Do you have your correct zip code entered in options?

dvdchance

09-12-09, 01:19 PM

LenL

09-12-09, 01:41 PM

dvdchance

09-12-09, 02:06 PM

Chuck44

09-12-09, 02:23 PM

Did you do anything special in setup to get it? I see in setup something about Guide and Guide+ but I have not done anything to set that up.

I receive CBS 2.1 just fine. So if CBS is sending it out should I receive it? I have F208 installed.
Don't do anything in that part of options!
That part of the menu is only for passing TVGOS data to an analog TVGOS capable device, which if activated, disables TVGOS in the Pal DVR.

fox200

09-13-09, 10:08 AM

I guess the Pal is headed for Ebay only sales.

bfdtv

09-13-09, 10:43 AM

I guess the Pal is headed for Ebay only sales.The DTVPal DVR is not discontinued. Dish Network is limiting distribution, so it may not be available outside of Sears in the future.

fox200

09-13-09, 11:18 AM

The DTVPal DVR is not discontinued. Dish Network is limiting distribution, so it may not be available outside of Sears in the future.

That may or may not be true as I don't know where you get your here-say info from. That being said, according to the financial pages in the WS Journal, Sears is having trouble and is closing stores like crazy. Maybe bankruptcy down the road if things don't improve? No Sears, no Pal right?

sivartk

09-13-09, 01:38 PM

That may or may not be true as I don't know where you get your here-say info from. That being said, according to the financial pages in the WS Journal, Sears is having trouble and is closing stores like crazy. Maybe bankruptcy down the road if things don't improve? No Sears, no Pal right?

Should we name all companies in bankruptcy in the past year that are still operating? If they are in bankruptcy and liquidating assets then I'd say maybe....wouldn't Dish just find someone else to sell these? Seems like Wal-Mart would be a good fit, but then we all know how terrible they treat their suppliers.

mphelle

09-13-09, 02:32 PM

After loading F208 a couple of months ago, I noticed that I had lost TVGOS in the St Louis area.

When I purchased my first unit in Jan. I had random lockups and then inherited (cheaply) another unit from a friend that was frustrated with his because it suffered from random reboots. I operated both in tandem to avoid missing recordings until F206 fixed both machines. After gaining confidence that the machines would not miss a recording, I put one back in the box (F206).

Today I brought the F206 machine out of retirement, replacing the
f208 machine which never had TVGOS, within the hour I had the red TVguide logo and 7 days of listings.

Having seen a couple of complaints from others, it might be time for F209.

Rammitinski

09-13-09, 03:59 PM

Sears is having trouble and is closing stores like crazy. Maybe bankruptcy down the road if things don't improve? No Sears, no Pal right?So guy buy it from there right away.

As long as Sears is still around for 90 days after you buy it, that's all that really matters.

(Actually, 30 - because they're not likely to do much after their own exchange period, anyway.)

Rammitinski

09-13-09, 04:01 PM

....wouldn't Dish just find someone else to sell these? Seems like Wal-Mart would be a good fit, but then we all know how terrible they treat their suppliers.The most logical place would be Kmart - since they're owned by the same company.

Paul210

09-13-09, 04:09 PM

...wouldn't Dish just find someone else to sell these? Seems like Wal-Mart would be a good fit, but then we all know how terrible they treat their suppliers.

Sounds like a match made in heaven. ;)

kevinvinv

09-13-09, 04:25 PM

So I've hunted through the thread and it seems that no one has been able to discover discrete on/off codes / commands for the Pal... is that the case?

In order to make foolproof power on / off macro's -- one needs these discrete on/off commands. The procedure given numerous times from Dish doesnt seem to work with this unit.

Anyone else have any ideas or workarounds?

Thanks!!

LenL

09-13-09, 05:49 PM

If the PAL DVR can receive both TVGOS and nonTVGOS TV listings data in a given market such as NY City, how does it decide which to use? Which gets priority when both are present? Anyone know?

Chuck44

09-13-09, 06:02 PM

If the PAL DVR can receive both TVGOS and nonTVGOS TV listings data in a given market such as NY City, how does it decide which to use? Which gets priority when both are present? Anyone know?
The DVR always uses TVGOS data when available.
When not available it uses PSIP data supplied by each station.

Scooper

09-13-09, 06:04 PM

frank70

09-14-09, 06:58 AM

The DVR always uses TVGOS data when available.
When not available it uses PSIP data supplied by each station.Baloney! See info on page 1 about "only some networks".

AtlantisMichael

09-14-09, 09:45 AM

This may be the reason that in other parts of the country some have lost listings as well as us in Atlanta.
I have been in contact with WGCL in Atlanta about TVGOS and this is the latest update/reply since we lost listing updates and such 2 weeks ago.
Rovi still has not replied to any of my Emails.
Here is the update/reply from WGCL on the TVGOS problem:
------------------------------------------------------
Michael

We had a call with tv guide friday morning. They are just starting their investigation. They had not contacted Apex yet.

I expect the timeframe for correction of this problem will be weeks.....not days.

We took the action to remove the service as there is a least a 10 to 1 ratio of Apex converters to TVGO users.

Steve
----------------------------------------------
So it looks like we will be without listings for a while at this rate. I will Email ROVI daily until I get a reply. All affected should do same.
Michael

telrod11

09-14-09, 12:34 PM

LenL

09-14-09, 12:36 PM

biker19

09-14-09, 12:54 PM

Forgive my ignorance - who is ROVI? .

Macrovision (makers of TVGOS) taken over by marketeers. :rolleyes:

Scooper

09-14-09, 02:45 PM

WillN937

09-14-09, 04:16 PM

Thanks! By pointing us to page 1 of this forum I have some ideas now about why I may not be getting TVGOS!

1. My DVR is only on for 2-4 hours a day.

2. It is only on at night.

3. Since TVGOS needs 6 hours to load and is only available certain times of the day it could be I am missing the loading of it for several reasons.

I will try to leave my DVR on for 24 hours and see what happens!

Also this page 1 has lots of good pointers! Anyone new to DVR PAL should review it! Good stuff!
What is your definition of "ON"? As long as the DVR is plugged into the wall, you have the correct setup (ZIP CODE etc) and the antenna is attached if TVGOS is being broadcast you should get it. It does not matter whether the unit is ON or in STANDBY.

Two ways to tell if you have TVGOS available is to look at another device that uses it and see if it is available there, I believe that the DVR will get time from TVGOS before it gets the program guide so you can check the time to see if it says set by TVGOS.

If you read most of the recent posts you will note that TVGOS is kind of spotty and sometimes you have it then it disappears. I have not had it for a couple of weeks on my DVR and the PAL+ both.

thorsenjon

09-14-09, 05:04 PM

I don't think too many people are complaining about completely losing their TVGOS. I for one get all expected channels with the exception of Fox. This is an anomaly I have only noticed with F208.

Interesting, not sure if I lost Fox TVGOS info right when I updated to F208, but I noticed shortly thereafter it was gone. Didn't even think it could be from F208, figured it was just down for some reason. The other channels seem to be fine. I'm in Twin Cities, MN. (My guide info for Fox only goes out a few hours, not a week like it used to.) Anyone not on F208 in my area still getting a full week of info in Mpls-St. Paul area?

Thanks

frank70

09-14-09, 05:37 PM

I keep seeing posts about the necessity to set a manual timer in order to set a late end time for a show (e.g.: on Sundays when a sporting event may push regularly scheduled shows ahead). That is not necessary. You simply press record as usual from the guide with the show you want to record highlighted; but then press the DVR button, select Daily Schedule, select the recording you just scheduled, and select Edit. On the second Edit screen, you get to set the duration to anything you want, so just increase it by 10, 20, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever you like.

1HD_addict

09-14-09, 05:39 PM

Fox TVGOS in Buffalo, NY disappeared about a month ago. I sent an email to our local Fox affiliate but never got a response. Others in my area with DTVPALS share the same problem

Interesting, not sure if I lost Fox TVGOS info right when I updated to F208, but I noticed shortly thereafter it was gone. Didn't even think it could be from F208, figured it was just down for some reason. The other channels seem to be fine. I'm in Twin Cities, MN. (My guide info for Fox only goes out a few hours, not a week like it used to.) Anyone not on F208 in my area still getting a full week of info in Mpls-St. Paul area?

Thanks

otaviewer

09-14-09, 07:45 PM

jrn23

09-14-09, 10:58 PM

AtlantisMichael

09-15-09, 05:51 AM

jay427

09-15-09, 07:16 AM

jason14

09-15-09, 08:38 AM

I'm having the same issue from Mpls, I upgraded from 202 to 208 last week. I used to get 7 days of Fox, but to be honest I did not check it the day I upgraded.

Is anyone with a older FW version getting Fox in the Twincites?

Jay

I'm in the Mpls/St. Paul area, still using F201, and I'm also not getting Fox 9 TV Guide data for more than a day. Also the other channels mentioned earlier (23, 29, 41, 45). I still have one week of data for the rest of the channels.

jay427

09-15-09, 03:00 PM

I'm in the Mpls/St. Paul area, still using F201, and I'm also not getting Fox 9 TV Guide data for more than a day. Also the other channels mentioned earlier (23, 29, 41, 45). I still have one week of data for the rest of the channels.

Thanks Jason, so to me it sounds likea station(s) problem.

indyjack

09-15-09, 04:04 PM

The most logical place would be Kmart - since they're owned by the same company.

Here is a Kmart link
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?vName=Computers%20&%20Electronics&cName=Blu-ray&DVDPlayers&sName=Accessories&psid=FROOGLE&sid=KDx20070926x00003a

Kelson

09-15-09, 05:17 PM

Here is a Kmart link
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?vName=Computers%20&%20Electronics&cName=Blu-ray&DVDPlayers&sName=Accessories&psid=FROOGLE&sid=KDx20070926x00003aKMart selling for $350 !?! I thought they were supposed to be the cheap guys.

akbungle

09-15-09, 05:30 PM

Interesting, not sure if I lost Fox TVGOS info right when I updated to F208, but I noticed shortly thereafter it was gone. Didn't even think it could be from F208, figured it was just down for some reason. The other channels seem to be fine. I'm in Twin Cities, MN. (My guide info for Fox only goes out a few hours, not a week like it used to.) Anyone not on F208 in my area still getting a full week of info in Mpls-St. Paul area?

Thanks

Also curious. Mine (F208) doesn't receive KMSP/FOX (9), WUCW (23), or ION (41) for the next day or later (but used to).

I'm having the same issue from Mpls, I upgraded from 202 to 208 last week. I used to get 7 days of Fox, but to be honest I did not check it the day I upgraded.

Is anyone with a older FW version getting Fox in the Twincites?

Jay

I'm in the Mpls/St. Paul area, still using F201, and I'm also not getting Fox 9 TV Guide data for more than a day. Also the other channels mentioned earlier (23, 29, 41, 45). I still have one week of data for the rest of the channels.

Thanks Jason, so to me it sounds likea station(s) problem.

Ditto here for Fox in Blaine, MN(F208) . But on top of that my other stations 2,5,11 only have listings through Saturday whereas Ch. 4 goes the full seven days. How about everyone else in the Twin Cities area, are you getting past Sat. on other stations?

Actionable Mango

09-15-09, 06:20 PM

I guess the Pal is headed for Ebay only sales.

DigitalStar still has it. Price went from $245 to $250.

http://www.digitalstar.com/product.aspx?guid=a18d6973-829d-45e7-96e4-8ffcc576d43e

Kricket

09-16-09, 09:52 AM

just wanted to throw out my quickie first impressions:

just got the pal in and hooked up on monday - by tuesday i had the full tvgos listing (going out about a week - well, i know i scheduled a few shows for next monday)

so far, the picture quality is phenomenal - im back to the familiar workings of a dish network pvr (being a previous user of a 622) - and im loving it

for those wondering - i initially used the vip 622 settings for my logitech harmony one remote - this didnt work but in going through the troubleshooting, it went through a short "learning" process using the original pal remote - i pressed about 4-5 buttons and it was able to recognize the codes - so now everything works like a charm

i didnt check to see what firmware it came with - but it came in taped plastic (as opposed to shrinkwrap) - with a set of batteries - and it appears to be new (but i guess you never know)

EDIT - i should mention - im in the chicagoland area - des plaines to be exact (about 16 miles outside the center of the city)

ss_sea_ya

09-16-09, 09:58 AM

WillN937

09-16-09, 11:01 AM

Sent an email to the engineer at the local CBS station and got the following reply. He is trying but it sounds like all he did is put the old box back on line because they have not recieved a replacement (yet?).

Since he turned it on after I sent him one e-mail he may think I am the only one in the Dayton market that uses TVGOS. You may want to thank him for trying and offer some motivation to bug ROVI or send a subject only e-mail to chuck.eastman@whiotv.com with the subject line "Thanks for enabling TVGOS" so they know there is a market for the service.:)

============================================
MY EMAIL

...
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 PM
To: ...
Subject: TVGOS

...

I understand that several stations have had to take their TV Guide On Screen encoders off line. I think your station has not provided this service for at least a couple of weeks now.

Have you recieved any indication from ROVI or whoever is the current supplier when they will have a box that works?

=========================================================
ANSWER

Good morning,

We have put the unit on-line to see if it will work properly. Keep your fingers crossed. If the same problems come back, I have no choice but to take it back off line.

Thanks

jay427

09-16-09, 11:53 AM

LDD1

09-16-09, 12:31 PM

Anyone in Albuquerque using the DTVPal DVR and car to post impressions?

ravichander

09-16-09, 02:36 PM

I am a bit confused here about people not getting one specific channel information on TVGOS ( most commonly FOX) but getting others. I was under the impression that in a market only one provider ( usually CBS, but in my case PBS) transmitted the TVGOS for all the stations in that area. In that case how could it be Fox's fault or CBS/PBS. It has either got to be ROVI or some quirk in the F208 update that has cut off the FOX information.

Chuck44

09-16-09, 02:39 PM

If the station is not providing the information to TV Guide it won't be there.

jay427

09-16-09, 03:20 PM

Selwonk

09-16-09, 05:26 PM

If the station is not providing the information to TV Guide it won't be there.
Go to tvguide.com/listings. Input your location and you will get 2 weeks of listings for your area.

I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. My DTVPalDVR has no TVGOS data for Fox-Ch2 and ion-Ch65. Tvguide.com has 2 full weeks of listings for both stations. Clearly TVGOS is receiving information from the stations.

I had F206 for 2 months and got maybe 5 updates to TVGOS then nothing for 6 weeks--during this period TVGOS was lacking info for ABC-Ch7 and PBS-Ch2. TVGOS returned 1 week after upgrading to F208 and has been rock solid for 6 weeks—minus info for Fox and ion.

Poster’s need to stop blaming F208. Go back through this thread and you will find that TVGOS has been erratic during all the firmware versions. Also, the DTVPalDVR is a relatively unstable device and still loaded with many bugs. F208 was a big improvement for me, but more needs to be done.

Russell_

09-16-09, 07:43 PM

Also, the DTVPalDVR is a relatively unstable device and still loaded with many bugs. F208 was a big improvement for me, but more needs to be done.

Would you care to list them? I see a few listed in the first post but that (imo) hardly qualifies as "loaded with many bugs". I use a couple of machines every day and my judgement is - almost bug free.

rcrach

09-16-09, 11:19 PM

Go to tvguide.com/listings. Input your location and you will get 2 weeks of listings for your area.

I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. My DTVPalDVR has no TVGOS data for Fox-Ch2 and ion-Ch65. Tvguide.com has 2 full weeks of listings for both stations. Clearly TVGOS is receiving information from the stations.

Poster’s need to stop blaming F208. Go back through this thread and you will find that TVGOS has been erratic during all the firmware versions. Also, the DTVPalDVR is a relatively unstable device and still loaded with many bugs. F208 was a big improvement for me, but more needs to be done.

I'm ready to say it's a hardware decoding or firmware issue. My sony HDD250 has 8 days of data including Fox where the Pal stops after about 4 days or so.

orion250

09-17-09, 12:50 AM

I've got one of these DVRs on order, and have also ordered the 1TB drive from the approved hard drive list. Is it fine to go ahead and replace the drive before ever powering the unit up, or does it need to go through the setup process with its factory drive before I do the upgrade?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I have upgraded both my Dtvpal dvr's with 1tb drives a few months ago with no problems. You just need to make sure that you have Firmware F207 or newer installed before doing this otherwise the dvr will not recognize the larger drive. I would suggest that you DON'T upgrade the drive until after the warranty runs out in case you have any problems with it while under warranty because they will not warranty the unit if the case has been opened at all. It is somewhat of a lengthy procedure to open the case so you need to find the step-by-step directions on this site (I believe) before attempting the operation of the drive upgrade. Good Luck!

Selwonk

09-17-09, 03:30 AM

tzdvl

09-17-09, 08:00 AM

Kelson

09-17-09, 09:09 AM

I'm ready to say it's a hardware decoding or firmware issue. My sony HDD250 has 8 days of data including Fox where the Pal stops after about 4 days or so.There have been other posts in which a second TVGOS enabled device, attached to the same antenna input, shows complete data for all channels whereas the companion DTVPal DVR does not. So it has looked like a signal decoding issue for some time -- probably a firmware issue. Probably less likely to get fixed in the near-term now that beta testing is over and the unit has gone retail.

ed_in_tx

09-17-09, 09:13 AM

I have upgraded both my Dtvpal dvr's with 1tb drives a few months ago with no problems. You just need to make sure that you have Firmware F207 or newer installed before doing this otherwise the dvr will not recognize the larger drive....

hmmm.. I read in post #1 that F206 would recognize a 1 TB drive. Will it or won't it?

"What is the largest drive I can use?

With the F206 firmware, the Dish DTVPal DVR is confirmed to support internal storage up 1TB, or four times the capacity of the original drive.

You must upgrade to the F206 firmware to support 1TB internal storage. Previous firmwares supported a maximum of 500GB."

WillN937

09-17-09, 11:02 AM

Thanks for the info, but is anyone in the Dayton area seeing TVGOS info now?

My guide is still 8 hours of PSIP only.

Ken
I am guessing they may have taken it back down. I have a DVR and a pal+ connected to my Panasonic E-85. The pal+ got enough data to set my E-85 clock and populate the channel list but I never got any guide info on the E-85. The DVR gives no indication of having seen TVGOS data. I did both a rescan for new channels and a reboot and the clock does not indicate it was set by TVGOS and I have no guide data.

I don't want them to think I am a pest or the only one who cares about TVGOS so maybe someone else could call or send an email to channel 7 asking if/when they are going to get a box that works.:(

dagger666

09-17-09, 01:54 PM

rcrach

09-17-09, 02:22 PM

has Dish pulled the plug on the DTVPAL DVR? figures now that i have a reason to buy one. Is there any other company other than TIVO that offers an OTA digital recorder that is free guide recording? I'm not paying for OTA program guide ever.

I've never paid for TV content. OTA all my life but you're kidding yourself if you think you don't pay for access to guide info in some form or another. Whether it's from the news paper, internet or the TVGOS licensing fees factored into the unit sale price. Unless you just randomly program in times to record it's coming from somewhere. It's only going to be a question of how much you're willing to pay.

I forgot about PSIP data. It comes with the content..sort of

bfdtv

09-17-09, 02:38 PM

I'm not paying for OTA program guide ever.

The electronic program guide (EPG) is patented, so anyone who wants to offer that feature must pay licensing fees to Rovi. Furthermore, the only "free" source of guide data is PSIP, which is typically limited to 12-48 hours of program information. No free source of more extensive guide data exists for use in commercial products, so you have to pay for it somewhere. Some products like the DTVPal DVR* incorporate the cost of commercial guide data into the purchase price, while others sell it separately.

has Dish pulled the plug on the DTVPAL DVR? No, they have not. But they have limited distribution. Sears.com plans to carry the DTVPal DVR for the forseeable future.

Is there any other company other than TIVO that offers an OTA digital recorder that is free guide recording? I'm not paying for OTA program guide ever.The single-tuner DVICO TViX R3310 does show PSIP guide data for the currently selected channel (screenshot (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2375/tvix.jpg)), but that's about the only current option besides TiVo and the DTVPal DVR. There is the discontinued, single-tuner Sony DHG series, which you can read about in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711&page=627).

* Dish Network received the right to include an EPG and TVGOS information in its products as part of a $190 million settlement with Gemstar (now Rovi), so they do not pay a per-box license fees for either. Other manufacturers have to pay EPG patent licensing fees and guide data licensing fees, which makes it difficult for them to offer low-cost DVR products.

WillN937

09-17-09, 03:40 PM

...
* Dish Network received the right to include an EPG and TVGOS information in its products as part of a $190 million settlement with Gemstar (now Rovi), so they do not pay a per-box license fees for either. Other manufacturers have to pay EPG patent licensing fees and guide data licensing fees, which makes it difficult for them to offer low-cost DVR products.

Based on some of the comments here a concern I had was/is that ROVI might decide that they are a new company and the agreement no longer holds. Since a format change would break all devices that use TVGOS unless they update every TV etc for makers that pay the license. I doubt this will happen but it is a concern born of paranoia. If the stations would just transmit PSIP data for a week we would be good but that does not seem to happen.

blbrodbeck

09-17-09, 05:40 PM

The new October issue of PC World magazine mentions the DTVPal DVR on page 98. It even has a picture of it, with a caption that says the DTVPal DVR "is limited to the next 12 hours' worth of schedule information".

bfdtv

09-17-09, 06:01 PM

The new issue of PC World magazine mentions the DTVPal DVR on page 98. It even has a picture of it, with a caption that says the DTVPal DVR "is limited to the next 12 hours' worth of schedule information".That's probably true in some areas. If TVGOS isn't available, then you're limited to whatever program information is offered by your local affiliates. Many affiliates only offer 6-24 hours of information.

Even when TVGOS is available, it doesn't offer program information for every channel on the DTVPal DVR. So some channels will probably have just 6-24 hours of program information.

Dish Network makes no guarantees about the availability of TVGOS, so if that service is discontinued at some point in your particular market, then you're stuck with whatever your affiliates provide.

jrpastore

09-17-09, 09:18 PM

I don't mean to downplay the importance of the guide function. It greatly enhances the convenience and usefullness of this DVR. But I think more than half of the people reading this forum (including myself) would willingly pay $299 for this DVR even if it included no guide function at all, not even PSIP data.

Remember VCRs? Remember what they cost when they came out? They had no guide data at all for at least the first decade of their existance. People still paid way more than $299 for VCRs at first because they let you record TV programs while you were away and zip thru commercials when you watched the programs later. In 2009 if you want to do the same things with an HD OTA signal, you really have no other options than the DTVPal DVR.

I'm not saying that I don't care about the guide function. I use it every day and I think it's great. All I'm saying is that the guide is the "gravy", whereas the "meat and potatoes" of this DVR is the HD recording capability which can't be had anywhere else for anywhere near $299.

Russell_

09-17-09, 09:27 PM

jmcdon7230

09-18-09, 08:13 AM

Well, still getting reboots. I haven't used my box much, but was watching a show and at some point it became unresponsive to the remote (still playing the show tho...) and after about 10 seconds, it rebooted. It seemed to take a little while to reboot.

Also, box seems to reboot itself everyday at aprox 5am.
In both cases, under the diag screen, the "reason for reboot" was "MGL1"

Running F208.

After mine started occasionally rebooting, it went into the death spiral of reboot loop. If yours is still under warranty, you might want to consider returning it. I lived with mine rebooting until it was too late and the warranty expired.

FRANK43

09-18-09, 01:54 PM

techweb

09-18-09, 02:39 PM

Poster’s need to stop blaming F208. Go back through this thread and you will find that TVGOS has been erratic during all the firmware versions. Also, the DTVPalDVR is a relatively unstable device and still loaded with many bugs. F208 was a big improvement for me, but more needs to be done.
What bugs? Other than a couple of lockups while using the browse mode, my box has worked very well, always recording as scheduled. That said, mine is still on probation with me, but if it continues to work as well as it has, I may dump my cable service since most programming I watch is OTA anyway.

ss_sea_ya

09-18-09, 03:41 PM

What bugs? Other than a couple of lockups while using the browse mode, my box has worked very well, always recording as scheduled. That said, mine is still on probation with me, but if it continues to work as well as it has, I may dump my cable service since most programming I watch is OTA anyway.

Lockups, for one
reboots
clock issues (for some)

Chuck44

09-18-09, 04:50 PM

Lockups, for one
reboots
clock issues (for some)
Most (not all, but most) fixed with the F208 fw release.

Russell_

09-18-09, 07:58 PM

Lockups, for one
reboots
clock issues (for some)

I have F208 on two machines, neither of which has exhibited any of the above.

jmcdon7230

09-18-09, 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss_sea_ya View Post
Lockups, for one
reboots
clock issues (for some)

I have F208 on two machines, neither of which has exhibited any of the above.

The problem for many is......how do you get F208 onto a unit that is in reboot loop?

cgulliver

09-19-09, 07:08 AM

Anyone figured out a way to get ESPN live online? I am missing College football more than I expected and now second guessing my decision to ditch cable.

allen98311

09-19-09, 07:26 AM

Anyone figured out a way to get ESPN live online? I am missing College football more than I expected and now second guessing my decision to ditch cable.

ESPN360.com, if your ISP is an affiliate.

cgulliver

09-19-09, 10:18 AM

ESPN360.com, if your ISP is an affiliate.

I can get this via Comcast which is nice. Now if only I could get it to my Xbox 360 via PlayOn or something else.

ss_sea_ya

09-19-09, 11:58 AM

Most (not all, but most) fixed with the F208 fw release.

Oops, I should have mentioned, I was referring to the F208 release.
I'll say Lockups are greatly reduced, but not eliminated.

I should also add HDMI info screen also does not work (it used to in earlier versions). (Doesn't matter what the power on sequence is).

WillN937

09-19-09, 07:53 PM

Oops, I should have mentioned, I was referring to the F208 release.
I'll say Lockups are greatly reduced, but not eliminated.

I should also add HDMI info screen also does not work (it used to in earlier versions). (Doesn't matter what the power on sequence is).

My HDMI info screen works and I have not had a reboot with F208 while the unit was on that I did not force.:)

nolim2873

09-20-09, 10:33 AM

The problem for many is......how do you get F208 onto a unit that is in reboot loop?

This is one of two main reasons I finally upgraded to F208 from F202. With F202, mine had an occasional reboot (total of 4 or 5 since 12-23-08), but otherwise worked mostly ok. Since the reports for F208 were mostly positive (some still questioned possible clock issues - the reason I stayed away from F206 and F207). I didn't want to have the reboot spiral of death and F208 was suppose to have a fix for that, so I upgraded.

The other reason was to get the one hour increments for unavailable info in the guide so I could set manual timers in the future for channels with no guide information (my NBC station is out of market from the CBS station I get TVGOS from, plus there is no guide data for PBS at the moment, which use to be there - this is possibly an F208 issue, but I can't say for sure).

Since F208 upgrade, I've only had one minor timer issue. No clock issues and no reboots. The one issue is that for some reason, a timer didn't fire one Sunday night. It was set for 9:00 to 11:00 for ABC. At 9:10, it was not recording. Fortunately the show I wanted was at 10-11:00 that night, so I deleted that malfunctioning timer and set a new one that did work. Not sure what the issue was.

dvdchance

09-20-09, 12:36 PM

I had a timer skipped on Thurs, but what was odd was the times for the shows that did record.

It skipped a 9pm show. I had 2 shows set to tape at 9pm, 1 recorded and 1 skipped. What was odd is that the 8.30 show I recorded showed as lasting from 8:30 to 9:01 on Ch 4, while the skipped show was listed as 9:00 to 9:30 on Ch. 4. the show that recorded correctly was on Ch. 2 from 9:00 to 10:00. I have 0 minutes before and after time default.

No tuner was available at exactly 9:00 since they were both in use? So I guess the guide caussed this skipped recording right?

golinux

09-20-09, 02:13 PM

No tuner was available at exactly 9:00 since they were both in use? So I guess the guide caussed this skipped recording right?
Even if there is a tuner available, it seems the Pal can't start two shows at exactly the same time. I stagger the start time by a minute or two (or start one manually after the first has started) and then they both record properly. If shows are sequential on the same channel, I record them in one block for several hours which gets around having to start a new recording event. This strategy won't work if you want to archive a certain program though . . .

bfdtv

09-20-09, 02:14 PM

No tuner was available at exactly 9:00 since they were both in use? So I guess the guide caussed this skipped recording right?Many programs are scheduled to run a minute or two past the hour: 8:30-9:01, 8:00-9:01, 8:00-9:02, etc (as seen by anyone with a TiVo). The DTVPal DVR should've displayed a scheduling error, however; it should not have allowed you to create that second 9pm recording.

alltexan2008

09-20-09, 02:49 PM

Hello,

I have upgraded my DTVPAL DVR to a one TB drive. It seems to me that much of this space goes completely unused because the software limits me to 40 recording timers. Can anyone tell me if there is a way to alter this, or if you know if any future software updates will increase the number of timers allowed?

Thank you very much,

Michael

Scooper

09-20-09, 02:53 PM

alltexan2008

09-20-09, 03:18 PM

Thanks Scooper.

digital only

09-20-09, 05:01 PM

DigitalStar still has it. Price went from $245 to $250.

http://www.digitalstar.com/product.aspx?guid=a18d6973-829d-45e7-96e4-8ffcc576d43e

Has anyone ever ordered from DigitalStar? Any Issues?

Russell_

09-20-09, 05:04 PM

Many programs are scheduled to run a minute or two past the hour: 8:30-9:01, 8:00-9:01, 8:00-9:02, etc (as seen by anyone with a TiVo). The DTVPal DVR should've displayed a scheduling error, however; it should not have allowed you to create that second 9pm recording.

I'm not sure the reasoning applies in this case since the OP was recording two consecutive shows (8:30 to 9 and 9 to 9:30) on one channel and one show 9 to 10 on a different channel. When I've tried such experiments the DTV has been pretty smart - though I can't guarantee that I've tried this very sequence. I know when I saw a similar posting some time ago I tried to reproduced it with two shows starting at the same time as when a previous one ended and even though I've not changed the "padding" from the default values all three shows were recorded (with the padding appropriately trimmed).

Russell_

09-20-09, 05:06 PM

Even if there is a tuner available, it seems the Pal can't start two shows at exactly the same time.

I do not have an issue recording two shows which start at the same time.

golinux

09-20-09, 06:36 PM

I do not have an issue recording two shows which start at the same time.
That machine is still on F201 which might be the diff.

larrybmw

09-20-09, 07:31 PM

My DVR was working Great until I upgraded the Firmware to F208, it Keep Freezing.

I want to go back to the older Firmware, F207.

Does anybody have it, please email it to me at larrybmw@gmail.com.

Thanks.

Chuck44

09-20-09, 08:08 PM

Unfortunately, you cannot go back to an earlier fw version.

pkeegan

09-20-09, 08:51 PM

Unfortunately, you cannot go back to an earlier fw version.

Why?

Chuck44

09-20-09, 09:00 PM

Why?
I haven't tried it myself, but several people have posted in this thread that the box won't allow it.

ss_sea_ya

09-20-09, 09:35 PM

From posts after mine, looks like a few other bugs...

I'll also add to the list, no sound on playback of a show being recorded. Turn unit off (with remote cntl) and back on, and sound came back....

Just a note, box has F208.......

ABHiDef

09-21-09, 03:35 AM

Has anyone ever ordered from DigitalStar? Any Issues?

See my post a few pages back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17159064#post17159064

Super_Chachi

09-21-09, 08:49 AM

ss_sea_ya

09-21-09, 12:54 PM

Have you monitored the reboot counters in diagnostics? Any reboots unaccounted for?

Selwonk

09-21-09, 05:13 PM

Would you care to list them? I see a few listed in the first post but that (imo) hardly qualifies as "loaded with many bugs". I use a couple of machines every day and my judgement is - almost bug free.

What bugs? Other than a couple of lockups while using the browse mode, my box has worked very well, always recording as scheduled. That said, mine is still on probation with me, but if it continues to work as well as it has, I may dump my cable service since most programming I watch is OTA anyway.

Below is a list of what I consider bugs in the DTVPalDVR. I first encountered most of these in F206 and later in F208.
Hookup: Pal>HDMI>Samsung LN52A550 LCD-HDTV -- Optical audio>Receiver.

Bugs I consider significant

1 — TVGOS problems.
a) No TVGOS info for some channels even though TVGuide.com has two full weeks of info for those channels. In SF Bay Area Fox-Ch2 and Ion-Ch65 have only PSIP info. In F206 it was ABC-Ch7 and PBS-Ch9.

b) No TVGOS or loss of updates. I had spotty updates under F206, but starting one week after upgrading to F208, I’ve had 8 weeks of continuous updates. I tend to doubt that F206 or F208 have anything to do with it. This problem appears to have multiple causes.

I like using the guide and TVGOS but I would be perfectly happy doing all manual timers.

2 — Loss of a timer event when 2 events start at the same time a single previous event ends--the Daily Schedule shows the event as Skipped. Sometimes the event that records goes into an extended recording mode that can last for many hours.During limited testing an event was lost over half the time.
This is one of my most annoying bugs.

3 — Loss of entire recording when the signal has been lost at the start, even if the signal loss is brief. This was hard to pin down but has been verified by repeated tests. To test, I set a timer event and rotated the antenna until the signal was lost. When the display showed the start time I rotated the antenna back. In one test the signal was restored about 10sec after the start time. I repeated the test several times and the recording was “skipped” every time.
This happens several times a week and is also one of my most annoying bugs.

I receive all my channels from a large rooftop antenna.
Many of my recordings are truncated by signal loss. I live in a borderline fringe area and some channels have frequent signal loss.
They are currently upgrading the broadcast antennas on Sutro Tower in San Francisco and most stations are broadcasting on “temporary” antennas and/or low power. Most of the stations should have a stronger signal when this work is completed in October.

4 — Recurring timer events are self deleted from the Timers schedule for no apparent reason. This happens once or twice a week.

5 — The Pal will not turn on and requires a reboot. About once a month the unit will not turn on and I have to disconnect the power and reboot. This does not appear to be related to the LCD/fluorescent interference turn on problem—see item 11.

6 — Frequent audio/video dropouts. This happens in both live and playback mode. Most of the stations have occasional dropouts, but station KBCW Ch44 (CW network) has the most. Entire one hour shows are sometimes affected with dropouts occurring every 31 seconds. The dropouts on Ch44 do not occur with my Samsung LCD HDTVs or Philips DVDR3576 DVR.
Maybe these dropouts will go away when the stations move to their new antennas in October. Then I can stop blaming the Pal.

Bugs I consider minor

7 — The “Conflict Bug”. Error messages when I try to change the length of a timer event. On Monday using the guide I created a timer for 9-10pm. I went to Edit and changed the record length to 120min and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. There was one other event scheduled for 10-11pm. I then deleted the just scheduled 9-10pm event and created a 10-11pm event. I went to Edit and changed the start time to 9pm and length to 120min. This time the event was scheduled. Where was the conflict?

Today I tried to change a 120min event to 60min and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. How can there possibly be a conflict?

To avoid the loss of an event described in item 2 above, I tried changing the start time 1min early on one of the events and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. However, I was able to schedule an event for the entire previous hour.

To avoid the conflict bug I have to delete the event and create a new manual timer event.

8 — Occasionally the skip function will go all the way to the beginning or end of the recording. This is less frequent in F208.

9 — Channels found in the 70’s. This is annoying, but overall I give the Pal high marks for the way it adds new channels.

10 — When I record live TV and select “Record The Remainder Of This Event” the recording takes from 10 seconds to two minutes to start. If I select “Record Entire Event” recording begins immediately.

11 — LCD/fluorescent interference turn on problem. This is reportedly caused by interference from the LCD panel fluorescent back lighting. If I turn on the LCD HDTV first, after about 5sec I cannot turn on the Pal from 10ft away. I have to move the remote to within 3ft of the Pal to get turn on; sometimes within a few inches. The remote is fully functional once the unit turns on. Overall I give the 5.3 IR remote high marks.

This is a known problem on the Dish website:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/remotes/5.3.shtml
Look under “IR Response Lost”. There is also a lot of good information about this remote.

12 — No sound when playing a recorded program. If I press enough buttons I eventually get sound. This has happened about 5 times since the F208 upgrade. This is also the only new bug I’ve found that appears to have been added by F208.

----------------------------------
Most of these bugs have been previously reported, but I don’t recall seeing 3, 7 and 10.
Items 2 & 3 may explain many missed recordings.
Many of these bugs appear to be random and can sometimes be hard to recreate; but they recur over and over.
Whether or not you experience these bugs probably depends a lot on how you use your machine.

I should add that overall I really like the DTVPalDVR. F208 was a major improvement.
But, “almost bug free”, NOT!

marquesalan

09-21-09, 07:01 PM

I know HD lives are random but I would think the HD in the DVR would die earlier since they are running 24/7. Are there any warning signs the HD is going to die? Does it make a loud noise? Does the test in the DVR menu detect problems early on. I don't want to lose all of my recordings one day so I am trying to prepare for the worse.

Russell_

09-21-09, 08:03 PM

Below is a list of what I consider bugs in the DTVPalDVR. I first encountered most of these in F206 and later in F208.
Hookup: Pal>HDMI>Samsung LN52A550 LCD-HDTV -- Optical audio>Receiver.

Bugs I consider significant

1 — TVGOS problems.
a) No TVGOS info for some channels even though TVGuide.com has two full weeks of info for those channels. In SF Bay Area Fox-Ch2 and Ion-Ch65 have only PSIP info. In F206 it was ABC-Ch7 and PBS-Ch9.

b) No TVGOS or loss of updates. I had spotty updates under F206, but starting one week after upgrading to F208, I’ve had 8 weeks of continuous updates. I tend to doubt that F206 or F208 have anything to do with it. This problem appears to have multiple causes.

I like using the guide and TVGOS but I would be perfectly happy doing all manual timers.

2 — Loss of a timer event when 2 events start at the same time a single previous event ends--the Daily Schedule shows the event as Skipped. Sometimes the event that records goes into an extended recording mode that can last for many hours.During limited testing an event was lost over half the time.
This is one of my most annoying bugs.

3 — Loss of entire recording when the signal has been lost at the start, even if the signal loss is brief. This was hard to pin down but has been verified by repeated tests. To test, I set a timer event and rotated the antenna until the signal was lost. When the display showed the start time I rotated the antenna back. In one test the signal was restored about 10sec after the start time. I repeated the test several times and the recording was “skipped” every time.
This happens several times a week and is also one of my most annoying bugs.

I receive all my channels from a large rooftop antenna.
Many of my recordings are truncated by signal loss. I live in a borderline fringe area and some channels have frequent signal loss.
They are currently upgrading the broadcast antennas on Sutro Tower in San Francisco and most stations are broadcasting on “temporary” antennas and/or low power. Most of the stations should have a stronger signal when this work is completed in October.

4 — Recurring timer events are self deleted from the Timers schedule for no apparent reason. This happens once or twice a week.

5 — The Pal will not turn on and requires a reboot. About once a month the unit will not turn on and I have to disconnect the power and reboot. This does not appear to be related to the LCD/fluorescent interference turn on problem—see item 11.

6 — Frequent audio/video dropouts. This happens in both live and playback mode. Most of the stations have occasional dropouts, but station KBCW Ch44 (CW network) has the most. Entire one hour shows are sometimes affected with dropouts occurring every 31 seconds. The dropouts on Ch44 do not occur with my Samsung LCD HDTVs or Philips DVDR3576 DVR.
Maybe these dropouts will go away when the stations move to their new antennas in October. Then I can stop blaming the Pal.

Bugs I consider minor

7 — The “Conflict Bug”. Error messages when I try to change the length of a timer event. On Monday using the guide I created a timer for 9-10pm. I went to Edit and changed the record length to 120min and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. There was one other event scheduled for 10-11pm. I then deleted the just scheduled 9-10pm event and created a 10-11pm event. I went to Edit and changed the start time to 9pm and length to 120min. This time the event was scheduled. Where was the conflict?

Today I tried to change a 120min event to 60min and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. How can there possibly be a conflict?

To avoid the loss of an event described in item 2 above, I tried changing the start time 1min early on one of the events and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. However, I was able to schedule an event for the entire previous hour.

To avoid the conflict bug I have to delete the event and create a new manual timer event.

8 — Occasionally the skip function will go all the way to the beginning or end of the recording. This is less frequent in F208.

9 — Channels found in the 70’s. This is annoying, but overall I give the Pal high marks for the way it adds new channels.

10 — When I record live TV and select “Record The Remainder Of This Event” the recording takes from 10 seconds to two minutes to start. If I select “Record Entire Event” recording begins immediately.

11 — LCD/fluorescent interference turn on problem. This is reportedly caused by interference from the LCD panel fluorescent back lighting. If I turn on the LCD HDTV first, after about 5sec I cannot turn on the Pal from 10ft away. I have to move the remote to within 3ft of the Pal to get turn on; sometimes within a few inches. The remote is fully functional once the unit turns on. Overall I give the 5.3 IR remote high marks.

This is a known problem on the Dish website:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/remotes/5.3.shtml
Look under “IR Response Lost”. There is also a lot of good information about this remote.

12 — No sound when playing a recorded program. If I press enough buttons I eventually get sound. This has happened about 5 times since the F208 upgrade. This is also the only new bug I’ve found that appears to have been added by F208.

----------------------------------
Most of these bugs have been previously reported, but I don’t recall seeing 3, 7 and 10.
Items 2 & 3 may explain many missed recordings.
Many of these bugs appear to be random and can sometimes be hard to recreate; but they recur over and over.
Whether or not you experience these bugs probably depends a lot on how you use your machine.

I should add that overall I really like the DTVPalDVR. F208 was a major improvement.
But, “almost bug free”, NOT!

Since I was the one who said “almost bug free” ... I can quite honestly say I've not experienced any of your issues 1-6 which you consider significant. Whether #3 is a bug or not is debatable. If I had written the software I might have well taken the same approach - no signal when I need to start recording means I make no attempt to record (as opposed to repeatedly trying). It's also possible that the missing signal is causing timers to be (eventually) deleted. I have tried more than once to reproduce #2 after reading about it here but have not been successful.

I do have occasional pixelation - which I attribute to using a pair of rabbit ears in the kitchen.

Do note just because you see the guide online does not mean the same set of data is available OTA. For it to be a PAL bug, one needs to have compelling evidence that the information in question is being broadcast and the format conforms to whatever standard has been established for the information and the PAL is not displaying it.

Of your minor bugs, every once in a while I've encountered #8.

DB100

09-21-09, 08:37 PM

It's also possible that the missing signal is causing timers to be (eventually) deleted.

This is in response to:

4 — Recurring timer events are self deleted from the Timers schedule for no apparent reason. This happens once or twice a week.

Well, this happened to me tonight for the first time. I went to watch the News Hour on PBS and it wasn't there. Then I noticed that all my PBS timers were gone. PBS is my strongest station, in the 90's.

Rescheduling them is no big deal. But, the problem is that now I have the mindset that I need to check my timers on a regular basis to make sure they are still there. Say I have 14 PBS timers. It doesn't make sense to me that all 14 should be deleted just because the signal was lost for a few seconds. I'd rather it leave the timers alone.

This doesn't sound like a bug...more like how they designed the software.

mhunt13

09-21-09, 08:39 PM

I've been reading this forum for weeks, and decided a few days ago it was time to order. Ordered from DigitalStar on 9/11, shipped on 9/18, and received today (9/21).

The DTVPal DVR arrived in it's own box, with the UPS shipping label on outside. The box packing tape had been cut and re-sealed, to put a packing list inside. The DVR appears new, and was packaged in a plastic sleeve, taped shut on the sides. Remote did come with batteries.

Quick setup was a breeze, and the channel scan found the same 15 digital stations that my Sony HDTV had already logged. Recorded a late afternoon talk show as it's first test. Worked perfect!

Did check the firmware and it says F208TALD-N, and the bootstrap version is 1011TALD. The receiver ID is R1880062493-03, and the processor ID is 29484573. These numbers are higher than what I noticed in a post several pages back....does this receiver id imply Dish has made 62,493+ units??

Very pleased so far, need lots more experience with recordings and viewing to learn how to operate it well. Having canceled CATV several months ago, looking forward to the fall TV season and using my OTA DVR to catch all the shows.

Lastly, I am very grateful to all the 'pioneers' who preceeded me, posted their experiences here, and helped each other with questions and answers. I hope, as you all do, that this DVR will prove to be sucessful for Dish --- and that improvements will follow.

If I hit any snags not related on the forum .... you'll hear.

b.e.wilson

09-21-09, 08:58 PM

Number 2 (loss of one event when two are programmed to start simultaneously) went away with F208. On mine, anyway.

Russell_

09-22-09, 06:05 AM

If I hit any snags not related on the forum .... you'll hear.

Don't know how you'll fare, but, let us hear your experiences whether you hit snags or not and whether they've been encountered before or not. If we only see postings when people have issues it tends to give new readers a biased opinion of the quality of the product. Which is one reason I mention that my two units on F208 are for the most part bug free and I couldn't be more pleased with them.

DB100

09-22-09, 08:29 AM

WillN937

09-22-09, 09:44 AM

For what it is worth I seem to be getting TVGOS in the format that the DTVPal Plus uses but nothing on the DVR so I guess they are sending something but I don't know if the DVR (F208) can't read it or they are not sending that stream.

Remember that the two data streams are not the same.

Kricket

09-22-09, 09:59 AM

i suppose i should give my experience seeing as ive had the unit for just over a week and actually had the chance to record a few shows with premiere week

i havent recorded a LOT - but i have recorded about 7-8 shows

first things first - tvgos - mine seemed to download without any issues at all - i seem to have about 7-8 days of program information (chicago)

with recordings - so far, so good - i recorded heroes and dancing with the stars last night - both start at the same time - both recorded without any issue (i didnt stagger the recordings at all - i just selected each show from the program guide and clicked the record button to set the timers - these happened to be non-recurring timers)

last week i recorded a few other shows (the office, community, etc) - everything seemed to record without any issues

i do not have this thing hooked up to my network - so maybe the fact that nothing is interrupting the dvr has something to do with its functioning correctly

im not sure which firmware im running - but seeing as i just got the thing last week, and havent had any issues yet, ill assume its f208 (but i can confirm that once i get home tonight)

nolim2873

09-22-09, 10:17 AM

Below is a list of what I consider bugs in the DTVPalDVR. I first encountered most of these in F206 and later in F208.

Bugs I consider significant

1 — TVGOS problems.
a) No TVGOS info for some channels even though TVGuide.com has two full weeks of info for those channels. In SF Bay Area Fox-Ch2 and Ion-Ch65 have only PSIP info. In F206 it was ABC-Ch7 and PBS-Ch9.

I like using the guide and TVGOS but I would be perfectly happy doing all manual timers.

2 — Loss of a timer event when 2 events start at the same time a single previous event ends--the Daily Schedule shows the event as Skipped. Sometimes the event that records goes into an extended recording mode that can last for many hours.During limited testing an event was lost over half the time.
This is one of my most annoying bugs.

3 — Loss of entire recording when the signal has been lost at the start, even if the signal loss is brief. This was hard to pin down but has been verified by repeated tests. To test, I set a timer event and rotated the antenna until the signal was lost. When the display showed the start time I rotated the antenna back. In one test the signal was restored about 10sec after the start time. I repeated the test several times and the recording was “skipped” every time.
This happens several times a week and is also one of my most annoying bugs.

Bugs I consider minor

7 — The “Conflict Bug”. Error messages when I try to change the length of a timer event. On Monday using the guide I created a timer for 9-10pm. I went to Edit and changed the record length to 120min and got the “conflicts with an existing event” message. There was one other event scheduled for 10-11pm. I then deleted the just scheduled 9-10pm event and created a 10-11pm event. I went to Edit and changed the start time to 9pm and length to 120min. This time the event was scheduled. Where was the conflict?

9 — Channels found in the 70’s. This is annoying, but overall I give the Pal high marks for the way it adds new channels.

10 — When I record live TV and select “Record The Remainder Of This Event” the recording takes from 10 seconds to two minutes to start. If I select “Record Entire Event” recording begins immediately.

12 — No sound when playing a recorded program. If I press enough buttons I eventually get sound. This has happened about 5 times since the F208 upgrade. This is also the only new bug I’ve found that appears to have been added by F208.
I didn't upgrade from F202 to F208 until about month ago (I upgraded to F202 the day I received it on 12/23/08). Mine has been running without a reboot for 34+ days so far. For F208 I have seen the following...

1 - My PBS channel currently has no TVGOS data in the guide. It use to have full data - I can't necessarily call this an F208 problem. I'm not a frequent user of the guide and I don't know when the PBS information disappeared. I also would be happy if there was only manual timer setting. One of 2 main reasons I upgraded was to get the "info not available" broken up into 1 hour increments.

2 - May have been the cause of my failed timer a few weeks ago. The timer that didn't start did have the same start time as another timer. However, these same two timers had worked several weeks prior to this. (Though I'm not sure if this corresponds to the F208 upgrade - I don't think so - I'll have to keep an eye on this issue.)

3 - Saw this many times with F202 (along with the very frequent "Part of the recording is missing" messages). Haven't seen it (or the messages) with F208 yet.

7 - I have seen the conflict bug. I just delete timers and recreate them when it happens.

9 - I have seen the 70 channels. I have many channels get added (probably mostly from the DC and Harrisburg, PA areas) that are not receivable. And I have even seen channel 001-00 the other night. I generally just ignore these - as I said, I'm not a frequent user of the guide (I used it over the weekend to set up for the fall shows, but I set weekly timers).

10 - I noticed a long delay too before the recording starts - the problem was in F202 also. The delay could be very long, like 2 or 3 minutes. Enough to make think it wasn't going to start - then the "REC" icon would show up. I haven't done it for a while so I can't very that F208 still has this problem.

12 - I noticed this with both F202 and F208. Stopping and starting the recording over solved the problem.

- - -

Another problem I've seen reported was that F208 doesn't show any HDMI data under Diagnostics, but mine has lots of information. Perhaps it has something to do with the specific TV the Pal is connected to.

allanlaw

09-22-09, 11:18 AM

Still running F206, power supply heavily filtered, Dish card removed, no network connection, unit sitting on foam risers for ventilation and anti-vibration. Since loading F206, the unit has been rock stable with no issues (and there were many with the prior firmware versions). If this keeps up for a little while longer, I see a 1tbHD upgrade in my future :D

Chuck44

09-22-09, 12:12 PM

I have a Mon-Fri timer for L&O, which airs at 2:00am. This results in the Fri night show (actually Sat morning) doesn't get recorded, and on Sun night (Mon morning) I get an hour of InfoMercial. I guess this is another advantage of Name-based recording as opposed to Time-based recording. I've never seen a PVR, whether HTPC or settop box, that included a Tue-Sat option in the choices for 'Repeat', which would solve the issue for Time-based recording.
It would be nice if there was a Tue-Sat option for those late night shows (like my Philips DVDR has) but since there's not, I just set the timer for Daily and simply delete the extra shows. :cool:

hattrick3

09-22-09, 03:24 PM

Don't know how you'll fare, but, let us hear your experiences whether you hit snags or not and whether they've been encountered before or not. If we only see postings when people have issues it tends to give new readers a biased opinion of the quality of the product. Which is one reason I mention that my two units on F208 are for the most part bug free and I couldn't be more pleased with them.

This is a good point! I got mine from SolidSignal in July. I put FW208 on pretty much right away and I have not had problems recording or viewing yet. This includes once when I even recorded two shows at once. I guess the Guide actually puts our zip codes to use? I have a Detroit-area zip but I receive Toledo stations pretty well. The Guide for Toledo stations goes out only an hour or two, but the Detroit Guide is usually good for over 24 hrs into the future.

My warranty is up in about 3 more weeks and I may well try to install a 1TB HD in there.

Now that I have posted this positive report, I am sure the unit will be in flames when I get home this evening :)

WillN937

09-22-09, 06:15 PM

This is a good point! I got mine from SolidSignal in July. I put FW208 on pretty much right away and I have not had problems recording or viewing yet. This includes once when I even recorded two shows at once. I guess the Guide actually puts our zip codes to use? I have a Detroit-area zip but I receive Toledo stations pretty well. The Guide for Toledo stations goes out only an hour or two, but the Detroit Guide is usually good for over 24 hrs into the future.

My warranty is up in about 3 more weeks and I may well try to install a 1TB HD in there.

Now that I have posted this positive report, I am sure the unit will be in flames when I get home this evening :)
Look for th TV GUIDE logo on the guide. It sounds like you are only getting the PSIP data sent by each station. TVGOS should go out for a modulo week.

Selwonk

09-22-09, 07:43 PM

Number 2 (loss of one event when two are programmed to start simultaneously) went away with F208. On mine, anyway.

The problem is not recording two events that start at the same time. This has never been a problem in F206 or F208.

The problem is when two events start at the same time and are preceded by one event that ends at the same time the two events start.

For example:
(1) One event is programmed from 9:00-10:00pm, and no other event ends at 10:00pm.
(2) Two events are programmed from 10:00-11:00pm.
(3) One of the 10:00-11:00pm events may be deleted.

In one series of testing an event was deleted over half the time. However, this problem can be hard to recreate.
This still occurs in F208.

zerowords

09-23-09, 06:47 AM

I posted this on some of the other threads.
Here are the contacts for Rovi, Sony, and WGCL:
Rovi CE Support
E-mail Address(es):
ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com Rovi still has yet to reply to any Emails, so here is a number to call as well:800-386-7380.

Steve Flanagan
E-mail Address(es):
Steve.Flanagan@cbs46.com
Steve pretty much can only do so much with getting Rovi to do something, but I think if he sees there are a lot more of us with TVGOS than he thinks, then maybe we could at least get him to turn the system on during the midnight hours. Does not hurt to ask.

Michael
I emailed Steve and got the reply below, basically confirming Michael's fine info.
I have now left a voice mail recording with rovi, too.
I had not heard of the Apex convertor. Is it distributed by Radio Shack, by any chance? While trying to see what the Apex model is, because I did not recognize it, I found the following link, at which the user ratings give it a very low mark and those user ratings confirm my limited experience with these convertors (but the official ratings seem irrelevant) and seem to mirror closely the units' abilities to draw in good quality images.
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-tv-converter/

Brian in Atlanta
**************************************
date Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:45 AM
subject RE: where is TVGOS
mailed-by cbsatlanta.com

hide details 6:45 AM (58 minutes ago)

Brian,

TVGOS has been removed from our stream until they can correct an
incompatibility problem with certain converter boxes.

Steve

Steve Flanagan

ss_sea_ya

09-23-09, 10:03 AM

DB100

09-23-09, 11:16 AM

If we only see postings when people have issues it tends to give new readers a biased opinion of the quality of the product.

If "issues" surface on this forum and then are subsequently corrected via software updates, then wouldn't new readers see that as a strength of this product? I know I do.

DB100

09-23-09, 11:29 AM

James_in_Utah

09-23-09, 11:38 AM

Below is a list of what I consider bugs in the DTVPalDVR. I first encountered most of these in F206 and later in F208.
Hookup: Pal>HDMI>Samsung LN52A550 LCD-HDTV -- Optical audio>Receiver.

6 — Frequent audio/video dropouts. This happens in both live and playback mode. Most of the stations have occasional dropouts, but station KBCW Ch44 (CW network) has the most. Entire one hour shows are sometimes affected with dropouts occurring every 31 seconds. The dropouts on Ch44 do not occur with my Samsung LCD HDTVs or Philips DVDR3576 DVR.
Maybe these dropouts will go away when the stations move to their new antennas in October. Then I can stop blaming the Pal.

Maybe bug #6 is due to your Optical audio>receiver setup. I've had the box for about 3 weeks now, heavily used it, and haven't noticed a single instance of audio problems. I'm just using the RCA audio jacks.
James

Chuck44

09-23-09, 11:51 AM

This is the 3rd day in a row that my PBS Timers have been deleted. The PBS channels are in the channel list; only the Timers are gone. I've never had this problem before...so what has changed.

The one thing that's changed on my DVR is Menu/Setup/Updates - it is Enabled and set to 4:30am. In the past, I had this Disabled. I'm wondering if PBS has been dropping their signal in the early morning, right when Updates is firing, and maybe Updates is deleting the Timers.

When I had this Disabled, I had clock problems. It would gain 8 seconds a day. With Updates Enabled, the clock issue is fixed, but Timers are being deleted.

I've changed Updates from 4:30am to 1:30am, and will see if Timers continue to disappear.
Unless you have an Ethernet connection, Updates do nothing - that menu item is only for checking for, and updating firmware.
Any time a station is off the air for more than a few seconds you can lose the timers for that station, and even any sub channels (I don't know why, but have seen it happen).
The Updates feature has absolutely nothing to do with setting the clock.

wajo

09-23-09, 12:12 PM

This is the 3rd day in a row that my PBS Timers have been deleted. The PBS channels are in the channel list; only the Timers are gone. I've never had this problem before...so what has changed.

The one thing that's changed on my DVR is Menu/Setup/Updates - it is Enabled and set to 4:30am. In the past, I had this Disabled. I'm wondering if PBS has been dropping their signal in the early morning, right when Updates is firing, and maybe Updates is deleting the Timers.

When I had this Disabled, I had clock problems. It would gain 8 seconds a day. With Updates Enabled, the clock issue is fixed, but Timers are being deleted.

I've changed Updates from 4:30am to 1:30am, and will see if Timers continue to disappear.
My PBS stations go off air on Sunday night ~11:30pm and don't come back on air till ~7:00am. Maybe your's do as well and, as Chuck 44 says, maybe that "off-air" time is part of the problem?

Maybe check to see if your PBS also go off-air at all, and even on other nights?

getrid

09-23-09, 01:00 PM

DB100

09-23-09, 01:05 PM

Unless you have an Ethernet connection, Updates do nothing - that menu item is only for checking for, and updating firmware.
Any time a station is off the air for more than a few seconds you can lose the timers for that station, and even any sub channels (I don't know why, but have seen it happen).
The Updates feature has absolutely nothing to do with setting the clock.
Whew, I'm confused. I had a clock problem, and then it went away. The only thing I changed was enabling Updates. I don't have an Ethernet connection.

I've never been clear about how you control whether your clock is updated by PSIP or you are on "manual". I have a vague recollection of something I read that said if you manually adjust the clock, then that sets it to "manual" and PSIP will no longer update it. I know I had manually adjusted the clock at some point and, form then on, my clock was definitely not being adjusted by PSIP. I may have rebooted at some point and enabled Updates. It's the reboot that may have reset the clock so it was updated by PSIP, and I thought it was the Updates.

Make sense?

ed_in_tx

09-23-09, 01:15 PM

Finally, got an reply back from an email inquiry I sent on 9-8-09 to ROVI about my DTVPal DVR's non-functioning TVGOS in Dallas TX:

"Hello

It looks like our data is passing properly in your area. please make sure your antenna is set up to receive the best reception possible for your host, unfortunately even with good reception of the host channel you may still experience missing listings. Make sure that your home zip code is used when setting up the dtv pal. also check to see if the tvguide symbol is displayed in the left hand corner of your guide. in some cases even with the symbol there is a known issue with missing listings. Also keep in mind that both the software and hardware in your dvr is echostar's. you will have to contact them for assistance in this matter."

Yes, the Zip code is correct, and yes the antenna is delivering a strong 98-100 sig strength.

So they have passed the problem off to Echostar's software and hardware. Not a good sign.:(

aztecf

09-23-09, 01:21 PM

Ditto here for Fox in Blaine, MN(F208) . But on top of that my other stations 2,5,11 only have listings through Saturday whereas Ch. 4 goes the full seven days. How about everyone else in the Twin Cities area, are you getting past Sat. on other stations?

I'm not getting the Guide for Fox9HD channel, I some guide data on there SD channel, No guide data for 23HD channel. I contacted FOX9 twin cities and they report they are sending guide data on both the HD and SD channels.

James_in_Utah

09-23-09, 02:01 PM

James_in_Utah

09-23-09, 02:18 PM

Is there anyone in the SLC Utah area that is getting full TVGOS info for all channels? I'm gettng it for 4 and 5 and PBS on 7. I don't get it for 2, 13, 14, and PBS on 11. That seems strange since 2 is the CBS station. I also live up in Eden, and see these channels from a repeater. I tried zip codes for down in the Salt Lake valley, but that didn't help. I just want to verify that this is a problem for everyone, or maybe just everyone seeing these channels on a repeater, or maybe just for me.
Thanks,
James

Chuck44

09-23-09, 02:25 PM

Whew, I'm confused. I had a clock problem, and then it went away. The only thing I changed was enabling Updates. I don't have an Ethernet connection.

I've never been clear about how you control whether your clock is updated by PSIP or you are on "manual". I have a vague recollection of something I read that said if you manually adjust the clock, then that sets it to "manual" and PSIP will no longer update it. I know I had manually adjusted the clock at some point and, form then on, my clock was definitely not being adjusted by PSIP. I may have rebooted at some point and enabled Updates. It's the reboot that may have reset the clock so it was updated by PSIP, and I thought it was the Updates.

Make sense?
If you have TVGOS (red TV Guide icon in the top right of the guide screen) the clock gets it's time from that, and the set date & time screen will show the time was received from TV Guide, and the time will be grayed out (locked - no manual time set possible).
If no TVGOS, you can set the time manually, but the time will also be set automatically using PSIP data.
In neither case does the Updates feature come into play.

golinux

09-23-09, 02:57 PM

My PBS stations go off air on Sunday night ~11:30pm and don't come back on air till ~7:00am. Maybe your's do as well and, as Chuck 44 says, maybe that "off-air" time is part of the problem?
My PBS station has been going off air late night since summer. Since I'm usually up till the wee hours, I would get the no signal message if I surfed through. Also my signal goes bye-bye when the amp turns off 3AMish. Neither cause of loss of signal has ever deleted a channel from the lineup. Next day all stations are always there just fine.

DB100

09-23-09, 03:22 PM

In neither case does the Updates feature come into play.
Ok, so much for my Updates theory.

I know you're not going to believe me, but I swear I can hear this machine LAUGHING AT ME! I hear it saying "I'll delete your timers, you reset them, and we'll see who gets tired first."

FRANK43

09-23-09, 03:23 PM

ucmerick

09-23-09, 04:52 PM

I recorded Heroes Monday night, and yesterday when I played it back, there was no audio througout the entire 2 hours. The video was fine. This has never happened before. Playback of any other recorded shows is ok. I am running F208 with an HDMI connection. Appreciate any help or advice.

I have had this happen also. I started a recorded show and there was no sound. I decided not to watch it at the time but I later thought that I would use closed captioning (ccc) to watch it. But when I went back later to watch it, the sound was present. It appears to me that the glitch is in sound playback and not in sound record.

aztecf

09-23-09, 05:46 PM

otaviewer

09-23-09, 09:15 PM

I could not get TVGOS information on some channels, specifically Fox 9 in the twin cities MN. I have 2 boxes one running F201 and F208 both doing the same thing. I emailed the station and they confirmed the guide information was being transmitted. I was getting the guide on the SD channel but not there HD channel. I ran the set up wizard again. go to the menu, click setup, then system setup, then Installation, then Setup Wizard. Went thru the Setup Wizard and now I have the Guide information on ALL channels.

Give it a try it might help, Twin Cities users let me know if this helps!!

Jeff

It sounds like yours was a different issue from what I am experiencing - the Setup Wizard unfortunately didn't fix it for me. Channels 9 (FOX), 23, ... are still missing guide info for the next day and after in the guide. Are you getting all channel info for tomorrow and the next day? Note that my DTVPAL DVR is configured (the default) to display the TVGOS service info (data stream broadcasts (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos) on channel 4/CBS for all station info), rather than the PSIP info (which each station broadcasts individually) in the guide.

aztecf

09-23-09, 10:19 PM

jay427

09-24-09, 07:16 AM

I only get guide information for channel 23 twelve hours in the future and channel 9 twenty one hours in the future. the other channels go at least 7 days into the future. Its better since I wasn't getting anything for 23 and 9.

I have two units one running f201 and the other running f208. The f201 unit is giving me 24 hours on 9 and 12 hours on 23.:mad:

Jeff

I feel your pain, I'm getting a little tired of it, it would not be so bad if it never had worked, would not know what we were missing.

On Sundays I like to take a look at the weeks programming to be sure what I want is selected, kinda hard to do with half the guide missing.

At first I thought it was a station thing and now it souinds like it could be the DVR. In the 1960's we were able to put a man on the moon and today we can not get a stable TV guide delivered to the magic box!

Jesse31

09-24-09, 07:16 AM

I just received a DVR from DigitalStar and it came with F202...

FRANK0923

09-24-09, 09:50 AM

I just received a DVR from DigitalStar and it came with F202...

I received mine from DigitalStar and it came with F208 :D installed. It was ordered on 9/8 and delivered on 9/22.

James_in_Utah

09-24-09, 09:52 AM

getrid

09-24-09, 10:21 AM

Did you by any chance try starting the recording over from the beginning?

I have had this happen also. I started a recorded show and there was no sound. I decided not to watch it at the time but I later thought that I would use closed captioning (ccc) to watch it. But when I went back later to watch it, the sound was present. It appears to me that the glitch is in sound playback and not in sound record.

Good News! I got the sound to work by pressing SAP. It displayed "Unknown" and the sound worked. I pressed it again and it displayed "Spanish" and no sound. If I stopped playback and resumed, I have to press SAP to get the audio again.

James_in_Utah

09-24-09, 10:29 AM

Maybe your TV is in SAP mode by mistake?

aztecf

09-24-09, 10:53 AM

The setup wizard did not improve my listings. Only resulted in wiping out my timers....

Sorry it was worth a shot, I talked to an engineer at Fox9 in the Twin Cities and he said the guide information thats transmitted is 12 to 14 days in the future, but for some reason I only get about 22hours worth?

Jeff

bfdtv

09-24-09, 11:07 AM

jay427

09-24-09, 11:09 AM

James_in_Utah

09-24-09, 11:14 AM

In addition to my zip code, I tried a zip code in Salt Lake, and even the Alternative Zip code (which is not a zip code) in the Pal user manual. All got the same results. I don't get extended info on CBS, and one of the PBS channels. I get extended info for the SD subchannel of Fox, but not the HD subchannel of Fox. I don't get extended info on channel 14 which I think is an independent station. I get 7 days on ABC, and NBC, and on one PBS.

aztecf

09-24-09, 11:19 AM

I have a regular dish converter box, I'll check that when I get home. Its in the laundry room, I never use it.

Jeff

bootymonger

09-24-09, 12:09 PM

I'm in the Twin Cities area:

Device | Ch 9 | Ch 23 | note
DTVpal+ | 22hrs | 10hrs | PSIP
DTVpal DVR | 22 hrs | 10 hrs | TVGOS
E85 via Pal | 6.5 days | 6.5 days | TVGOS by feeding analog E85h converted signals with digital DTVpal+ in TVGOS mode

The E85's listings may have downloaded a couple days ago.

Of course, today the E85 decided to move its clock back an hour, which is another world of confusion and annoyance. Also, I get no PBS listings or Ch 45 on the E85 any more. I used to not get Ch 23 listings, but when those appeared I lost Ch2 and Ch45. I never had any sub-channel listings via the E85. It's such a buggy zoo but I want to keep my 1.3x playback!! The digital transition has been a step backward in many respects other than signal quality.

I suspect there's some glitch a human could correct, but I don't know who to call to tell them about my problems with DTVPal in TVGOS mode feeding the E85.

DaJoos

09-24-09, 12:25 PM

I just received my DTVPal DVR and would like to register it with Dish so as to get at least my puny 3 month warranty. I've looked around the DTV site to no avail - am I missing something? Or is it just a case where you provide Dish with a copy of your invoice to prove the purchase date if a problem arises? Lastly, I did not see a warranty card in the box - should there have been one?

Thanks

P Smith

09-24-09, 12:48 PM

There is a trivia question for curious mind - how many recordings by number (I would imagine just short events) could be stored by the DTVpal DVR ?

Some indications shows the magic number would be 601.

el gran chico

09-24-09, 01:04 PM

I feel your pain, I'm getting a little tired of it, it would not be so bad if it never had worked, would not know what we were missing.

On Sundays I like to take a look at the weeks programming to be sure what I want is selected, kinda hard to do with half the guide missing.

At first I thought it was a station thing and now it souinds like it could be the DVR. In the 1960's we were able to put a man on the moon and today we can not get a stable TV guide delivered to the magic box!
+1

I'm past the point of being tired, I've just plain given up. I have no faith that Echostar/Dish will do anything to make this better. I certainly don't trust what either of them say.

Several people here (me included) have proven that other TVGOS devices get additional channels in their listings from the same host broadcaster, so something is up with the DTVpal DVR. It's also been proven with other devices that some channels in some DMAs aren't in the stream (or so mucked up in the stream that no TVGOS device recognizes them) - not sure if these are mistakes or intentional?

This gets me back to the broadcasters themselves. They seem quite happy to give away 2 weeks or so worth of data to Tribune and Rovi, but can't be bothered to load up more than 12 hours worth into PSIP. To me, this is free advertising for their own product. It seems really dumb to me to not use it to their advantage.

I tried to use the web for listings for stations I get that are not on TVGOS (nearly two-thirds of them :-( ) but that was so clumsy, I just give up on them altogether for setting timers a day or 2 ahead.

bfdtv

09-24-09, 01:04 PM

mhunt13

09-24-09, 02:22 PM

I just received a DVR from DigitalStar and it came with F202...

I received mine from DigitalStar and it came with F208 :D installed. It was ordered on 9/8 and delivered on 9/22.

Received mine from DigitalStar, and it also came with F208. Ordered 9/11, delivered 9/21.

DaJoos

09-24-09, 03:32 PM

There's no registration or warranty card. As you guessed, you use your invoice to prove purchase date.

Thanks for the info!

digital only

09-24-09, 05:42 PM

Received mine from DigitalStar, and it also came with F208. Ordered 9/11, delivered 9/21.

What part of the country are you in? I live near Illonois and ordered on 9/21 and the order status shows processed on their website but no other information.
I"m guessing a similar lead time for me unless you are on the west coast or something.

golinux

09-24-09, 06:57 PM

otaviewer

09-24-09, 08:52 PM

the PAL was in 'Audio Mode' - no video only sound. There were two eighth notes floating around the screen like a screen saver. I finally unplugged it and it was back to normal when I started it up again.

I saw that too one time a few days ago for several minutes on a channel that was recording - it corrected itself after several minutes. The DTVPal displayed that the channel was an audio channel during the middle of the show. I did not think to hit my TV remote's button to use the TV's built in ATSC tuner instead, to see if it was the station or the DTVPal having the issue. Nice graphic screen-saver though.

akbungle

09-24-09, 09:37 PM

Sorry it was worth a shot, I talked to an engineer at Fox9 in the Twin Cities and he said the guide information thats transmitted is 12 to 14 days in the future, but for some reason I only get about 22hours worth?

Jeff

It sounds like either the engineer misinterpreted your question or you misinterpreted the answer.

Fox9 provides 12-14 days of program information to guide data providers like TVGuide and Tribune. Tribune sells that full 12-14 days to TiVo, Moxi, Microsoft (Windows Media Center), and DirecTV, which they deliver using their own Internet servers and/or satellite. TVGuide sells up to 8-days of that information via commercial TVGOS service, where available. The affiliate itself offers just 22 hours of free information via PSIP, which is what you are evidently seeing now.

Here is my question to and response from Fox9:

Subject: No TV Guide On-screen
Comments: I no longer receive TV Guide On-screen and have not for about two weeks now for Fox programming. I have a DVR that gives TVGOS for seven days or PSIP for twenty-four hours and for a while now I've only been receiving the PSIP data for Fox programs. Please help out to get the full seven days back up and running as right now it is very difficult to set up my recordings for Fox.( Just as further detail I do receive the full seven day TVGOS programming info for CBS channel 4.) Any response would also be very much appreciated.

We send out a program guide from Titan TV on both KMSP and WFTC in the PSIP stream. It should display when the guide button is pressed. WCCO is the Gemstar data provider for this area so I'm not sure.

Also I did send an email to CBS a week ago but never received a response.:mad:

jay427

09-25-09, 07:17 AM

Here is my question to and response from Fox9:

Subject: No TV Guide On-screen
Comments: I no longer receive TV Guide On-screen and have not for about two weeks now for Fox programming. I have a DVR that gives TVGOS for seven days or PSIP for twenty-four hours and for a while now I've only been receiving the PSIP data for Fox programs. Please help out to get the full seven days back up and running as right now it is very difficult to set up my recordings for Fox.( Just as further detail I do receive the full seven day TVGOS programming info for CBS channel 4.) Any response would also be very much appreciated.

We send out a program guide from Titan TV on both KMSP and WFTC in the PSIP stream. It should display when the guide button is pressed. WCCO is the Gemstar data provider for this area so I'm not sure.

Also I did send an email to CBS a week ago but never received a response.:mad:

Thanks for the update, I really do hope this does get fixed!

ed_in_tx

09-25-09, 07:34 AM

Here is my question to and response from Fox9:

Subject: No TV Guide On-screen
Also I did send an email to CBS a week ago but never received a response.:mad:

Likewise with the DFW CBS affiliate KTVT-11. I've emailed several times and called engineering on the phone ("please leave a message") and no call back. I guess they have no answers. All I needed to know was if they were still sending the data, because my DTVPal DVR has sure stopped receiving TVGOS.

zerowords

09-25-09, 07:40 AM

Regarding "Where is TVGOS in Atlanta" I got the following email from Steve Flanagan this morning. He said he was aware of a similar problem in Houston, but could not confirm any problems elsewhere. He wonders if the problem is at rovi or with some other equipment or system his station uses which conflicts with rovi. He says owners of certain converters lose his station's signal in between 1 and 24 hours after they have acquired the signal.

Brian in Atlanta

**************email quoted below**************
Brian,

I want to give you an update on TVGOS. Earlier this week we identified
another make/model of converter having the same decoding problem when
the TVGOS stream is present. This indicates to us that the problem is
even more widespread than we initially thought.

As a result we have made a business decision to discontinue the TVGOS
service completely. We are now in the process of returning the
equipment to TV Guide.

I suspect they will approach other stations in town looking for an
outlet. Please contact them for more information.

Steve

Steve Flanagan

Kelson

09-25-09, 08:42 AM

Several people here (me included) have proven that other TVGOS devices get additional channels in their listings from the same host broadcaster, so something is up with the DTVpal DVR.I get the impression here that most people here either don't agree or don't want to accept that conclusion.

jason14

09-25-09, 09:23 AM

I had a bit of a scare today. I had just watched a recorded show. Then when I went to delete it, there was no PIP and when I went to live TV, the PAL was in 'Audio Mode' - no video only sound. There were two eighth notes floating around the screen like a screen saver. I finally unplugged it and it was back to normal when I started it up again.

Has this happened to anyone else? How would I get it out of audio mode without unplugging?? I've been reading this thread since the beginning and don't remember it ever being mentioned . . .

It was quite a scare as tonight there are a bunch of shows - MI-5, Dr. Who, Fringe and CBS new fall lineup - that will require both my PALs to get the start/end times to work out properly.

I had this exact same thing happen to me just last Saturday (9/19) for the first time! I was watching a recorded show and it ended, then it went into that audio mode with the two musical notes moving around the screen. I tried to change channels, and the channel would flash for a second, then go right back to audio mode. I ended up doing a reset and went through the initial setup to get things back to normal. Unplugging would have probably been easier. I've had mine since February, and that's the first time I've seen that. I'm still using F201 firmware.

dvdchance

09-25-09, 09:35 AM

Whats the difference between a recording being skipped and being stopped?

For the second straight Thurs. night my PAL didn't record The Office. Last week it showed as skipped, last night stopped. It seems to be a case of one show stopping recording (8 - 9pm) and then 2 starting recording (one at 9 - 9:30 and the other 9 - 10). It recorded the 9 - 10 show but the 9 - 9:30 show shows as stopped.

I'm sure in the 2 plus months I've had the PAL I've started 2 shows when another stops, but it's just starting to miss recordings.

vtex

09-25-09, 10:29 AM

Hello,

I have had 2 major issues with the DTVPal that don't seem to appear on the forum:

Recording takes a few minutes or so after I press "record" to start - even if there is nothing else recording at that time - the recording will always say "pending" in the timer list. It's not as if its even a timer issue, all I do is hit "record" on the show I am currently watching, select the reminder of the event, and then it does nothing for like 5 minutes.
Sometimes recordings screw up and I am left with recordings that have names such as "/dvr/kl231"

I am using the latest F208 firmware.

Anyone have these issues as well?

bfdtv

09-25-09, 10:46 AM

Regarding "Where is TVGOS in Atlanta" I got the following email from Steve Flanagan this morning. He said he was aware of a similar problem in Houston, but could not confirm any problems elsewhere. He wonders if the problem is at rovi or with some other equipment or system his station uses which conflicts with rovi. He says owners of certain converters lose his station's signal in between 1 and 24 hours after they have acquired the signal.I speculated some time ago that it might be an interoperability issue with certain equipment.

Realistically, a broadcaster is not going to replace many thousands of dollars in broadcast equipment just to offer TVGOS for a small percentage of their viewers. But if it is specific to certain broadcast hardware, Rovi could move TVGOS to another broadcaster in the same market.

golinux

09-25-09, 11:16 AM

I had this exact same thing happen to me just last Saturday (9/19) for the first time! I was watching a recorded show and it ended, then it went into that audio mode with the two musical notes moving around the screen. I tried to change channels, and the channel would flash for a second, then go right back to audio mode. I ended up doing a reset and went through the initial setup to get things back to normal. Unplugging would have probably been easier. I've had mine since February, and that's the first time I've seen that. I'm still using F201 firmware.
Interesting . . . the PAL that had the problem is also on F201. F201 has worked just fine for me in 9 months I've been using it quite heavily - only a handful of lockups during playback (probably due to momentary signal loss) and reboots. I tried a number of things before pulling the plug but none of them worked. I'm wondering if there is a setting to switch to audio mode though I didn't see one.

DB100

09-25-09, 11:57 AM

Interesting . . . the PAL that had the problem is also on F201. I tried a number of things before pulling the plug but none of them worked. I'm wondering if there is a setting to switch to audio mode though I didn't see one.
I saw the two musical notes on a black screen last week, and I'm on f208.

Chuck44

09-25-09, 12:03 PM

Whats the difference between a recording being skipped and being stopped? (...)
If you hit Stop to end a recording early (like right after the closing credits) it will show Stopped.
If the station is off the air or has really bad reception when a timer is supposed to start,
the DVR will not even try to record, and will show Skipped.

golinux

09-25-09, 12:34 PM

Maybe the audio mode anomaly should be mentioned in the first post of this thread as several of us have experienced it?

GTownKY

09-25-09, 01:18 PM

2 — Loss of a timer event when 2 events start at the same time a single previous event ends--the Daily Schedule shows the event as Skipped. Sometimes the event that records goes into an extended recording mode that can last for many hours.During limited testing an event was lost over half the time.
This is one of my most annoying bugs.This verified bug is completely unacceptable. It took all of one hour for me to confirm it was indeed a bug. Dish should have no problem confirming this either, and yes, it IS a MAJOR bug.

3 — Loss of entire recording when the signal has been lost at the start, even if the signal loss is brief. This was hard to pin down but has been verified by repeated tests. To test, I set a timer event and rotated the antenna until the signal was lost. When the display showed the start time I rotated the antenna back. In one test the signal was restored about 10sec after the start time. I repeated the test several times and the recording was “skipped” every time.
This happens several times a week and is also one of my most annoying bugs.

I receive all my channels from a large rooftop antenna.
Many of my recordings are truncated by signal loss. I live in a borderline fringe area and some channels have frequent signal loss.
They are currently upgrading the broadcast antennas on Sutro Tower in San Francisco and most stations are broadcasting on “temporary” antennas and/or low power. Most of the stations should have a stronger signal when this work is completed in October.The answer to this is simple, have a system menu choice of : "Record full scheduled event when no signal present at start of event?" Y/N?
That could either be a system default or a per scheduled event choice.

And for crying out loud Dish... Fix the idiotic 5 MINUTES START EARLY/END LATE to the way it used to be in earlier firmware versions! (60 or 120 minutes)