Still no luck getting the full guide. I live in the Cleveland market(44135) and I tried other ZIP codes for this area and the substitute ZIP but I only get 10-11 hours ahead except the CBS station that gets 24-36 hours. No TV Guide logo on screen.
I don't want to use the TVGOS setting because I want to record to the Pal's hard drive only, not another device.

Congratulations - Cleveland does NOT have digital TVGOS -
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

This means you only get PSIP guide information.

Here is the Dish Network support response:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your email. I’ll be happy to assist you with your software questions. There is no current release date for new software. The Ethernet connection and USB will be used for software upgrades. There are no other plans for those ports at this time.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/techchatadvcustformrf23.shtml

Thank you,

Shane D.

DISH Network Technical E-care

Blah blah blah blah....

Emerson 19" HDTV model#: LC195EM8
Video 2: Componet (Y/Pb/Pr), Audio (L/R)
Video 1: S-Video, Video, Audio (L/R)

Can you just use the DVI input for the DTVpal DVR?

Congratulations - Cleveland does NOT have digital TVGOS -
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

This means you only get PSIP guide information.
So the PSIP guide only goes less than 12 hours not 7 days?

So the PSIP guide only goes less than 12 hours not 7 days?

No, The PSIP guide can go at least 72 hours, (my CBS does 72 hour PSIP) all my other staions just do the 12 hours currently required by the FCC.

"R" In a previous post I said that I had seen the red R on the info screens of programs that were scheduled to record in the future that were repeats and concluded that they were using this to indicate that the program was a repeat. I have not seen that lately so I am not sure what I saw.

The DVR has two tuners which means you can record two shows and watch a recording or record a show and watch a show "live". I think this is why a number of us have observed lockups and the inability to schedule a program to record when one is already being recorded. I have not devined their exact logic for how the tuners get allocated but can make the following observations.

If two programs are scheduled to record at the same time, when the second on starts it grabs the second tuner and you can no longer watch live TV so the screen goes blank and the recorder appears to be locked.

If you are recording a program and attempt to add another you can't because the software senses a conflict between using the second tuner to watch live TV and do the recording. It took me a while to realize where the conflict was because the error message is not all that helpful as others have pointed out.

I guess they consider this a sort of first come, first served arrangement where the scheduled recording gets to take precedence over the current use or maybe they just assume a recording is more important than live TV since there are alternative ways to view the live TV.

Anyhow that is my theory about why we see what we see.

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that "Daily Schedule" lists everything you have ever scheduled, recorded or deleted and there is no obvious way to clear this history. Maybe there is a time limit or this is stored in a circular buffer but if there is a limit to the number of timer events I don't want to waste them on this.

So the PSIP guide only goes less than 12 hours not 7 days?

I think PSIP can go out as much as 16 days but most stations send just a few hours. Even with the TV Guide logo I think you can tell the TVGOS data from the PSIP data by all the "No program information" in anything beyond a day. I have some channels that are fully populated and some don't even show what is on now.

So the PSIP guide only goes less than 12 hours not 7 days?

The PSIP guide goes out as far as the station supplies that info.

Your other issue may turn out to be time reliability. If TVGOS is supplied, the DVR takes its time from the station supplying the TVGOS. If there isn't - I hope all of your stations' PSIP time is real close. Maybe they will start paying attention to it after analog shutdown....

I need some help to test the analog pass thru.
Since I cannot get past the set-up, I can't use the analog pass thru button to see if my antenna input works.
When I shut off my unit, I still cannot get an analog signal to my TV. I am using the coax output to my TV.
I do get the start-up DVR menu on analog Channel 3.
Can someone unplug their DTV Pal DVR and try to get an analog signal via the coax output of the unit? If your ananlog channels work on your TV, then I know my antenna input is bad.
I am going to my sister's house in the next town to try the unit on her TV antenna.
My roof antenna directly feeds a splitter to my DVR and TV. I get no digital channels.
My attic antenna goes to a 3-way powered splitter to 3 digital tvs. All pick up all the chicago digital stations. I get no digital channels when using this antenna.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

I don't know my DVR rebooted or not, but this is the First Time my Screen when Black, Twice during the Eagles-Cowboys Game. All I did was change channel then the screen came back. I do know the signal on Fox was Low, so I adjusted my Antenna, I did not see a Black Screen since.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

Did the same to me within the last hour or so while I was watching the Ravens vs Jags game. Also with the F202 firmware.

Can someone unplug their DTV Pal DVR and try to get an analog signal via the coax output of the unit? If your ananlog channels work on your TV, then I know my antenna input is bad.

The DVR must be plugged in when off to get analog pass-through to your TV. There is a small amount of amplification applied to the pass-through signal. I unplugged my DVR and a strong analog signal dropped to very snowy.

If you unplug the DVR and plug it back in, it takes a short time to reboot. When that is finished it is not in analog pass-through. You need to turn it on and right back off, then it will be in analog pass-through.

Of course you can always push the Analog Pass-through button when the unit is on.

Earlier in this thread I suggested that they might use a small amplifier ahead of the two tuners to maintain the noise figure of both tuners. My guess now is that they do have such an amplifier and it is used to drive the tuners or analog pass-through so that splitting the signal or running it through the box does not degrade the noise figure in either case. Thumbs up to the engineers on this one.

I need some help to test the analog pass thru.
Since I cannot get past the set-up, I can't use the analog pass thru button to see if my antenna input works.
When I shut off my unit, I still cannot get an analog signal to my TV. I am using the coax output to my TV.
I do get the start-up DVR menu on analog Channel 3.
Can someone unplug their DTV Pal DVR and try to get an analog signal via the coax output of the unit? If your ananlog channels work on your TV, then I know my antenna input is bad.
I am going to my sister's house in the next town to try the unit on her TV antenna.
My roof antenna directly feeds a splitter to my DVR and TV. I get no digital channels.
My attic antenna goes to a 3-way powered splitter to 3 digital tvs. All pick up all the chicago digital stations. I get no digital channels when using this antenna.

What happens when you put the DVR where the working DTVs are ?

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

Just rebooted and downloaded the guide again while I was still watching the same football game. That makes it twice in the last two hours. Hopefully not a new trend.

Just rebooted and downloaded the guide again while I was still watching the same football game. That makes it twice in the last two hours. Hopefully not a new trend.
If it is a flaw in the firmware hopefully they'll release another upgrade to fix it.

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that "Daily Schedule" lists everything you have ever scheduled, recorded or deleted and there is no obvious way to clear this history. Maybe there is a time limit or this is stored in a circular buffer but if there is a limit to the number of timer events I don't want to waste them on this.

If the DTVPal DVR works like my Dish sat DVRs, this will clear after a about a week. Currently my 508 has history going back to Dec. 21 and the 625 goes back to Dec. 23.

One thing that bothers me a little is that hitting the DVR button 3 times takes you to the schedule on the Dish sat DVRs, but not the DTVPal DVR. You also have to go back to the main My Recordings screen to delete events as the next screen for an event doesn't have all the options like the Dish sat DVRs (like DELETE and PROTECT). Maybe the will fix this in a future S/W release.

I need some help to test the analog pass thru.


Take the input to the DVR and connect it to the TV input and make sure that works.

When I turn the box off or press analog pass-through it is like a direct connection (maybe with a little gain as was discussed earlier) and I can view all the digital and analog stations on my TV same as if the DVR was not even there.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

Could this be related to the copy protection on commercials issue that some have discussed?

I can understand protecting content but I would think they would want as many people to see their commercials as possible:)

Could this be related to the copy protection on commercials issue that some have discussed?

I can understand protecting content but I would think they would want as many people to see their commercials as possible:)No.

As per the FAQ in the first post, the DTVPal DVR ignores all copy protection flags.

I took the box to my sisters in Munster, In and it did not work there either.
I got lots of digital OTA channels on her TV but the box could not find any.
That is 3 antennas, 3 different coax cables, 2 different towns and with or without splitters or amplifiers. Tomorrow I call Dish to get the box returned.

Since I cannot get past the initial screen, I cannot use the remote to turn-off the box, nor can I use the analog pass thru button.

I was hoping that unplugging the box would allow full analog pass thru so I could make sure my antenna connection was actually soldered in the box.
No such luck.

I will update with my experiences on the return process.

I will update with my experiences on the return process.

Good luck. I have a feeling it is not going to be fun, and you are going to get screwed into paying shipping to and from Dish (at least that is how I read the warranty). Which is a joke, considering they sent you a brick.

If Dish gives you a hard time just dispute the charges with your CC company.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting?

In addition to my "lockup" occurrences, I also experienced random guide loading. In the two days since disabling TVGOS, I've had no rebooting or lockup occurrences.

Just rebooted and downloaded the guide again while I was still watching the same football game. That makes it twice in the last two hours. Hopefully not a new trend.

I recently had this occur shortly after connecting ethernet to the box. I had previously only connected it temporarily for the firmware upgrade, and it was fine until recently. I have since disconnected the ethernet and I will see if that helps. Do you have ethernet connected to your box?

Since I set mine up Christmas Eve, it's been perfect....no problems.

Like others, I thought it would be a good idea to do the firmware update...but I didn't.

No one here has any idea what it 'fixes.'
Why do it if the machine is working just fine.
I've recorded several shows and all played back fine. I have a full 7 day guide. I haven't experienced any of the reboot or lockup problems. Are these related to the firmware update? Who knows. But if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!

From reading the information on the forum I am aware of the F202 version. Unfortunately my TV setup is not in the same location as my computer and I don't have an Ethernet cable that is long enough to connect the DVR to my router while it is still connected to the TV. Can I just connect the DVR directly to my router without connecting to TV screen to see what is going on? Is there an indication that the download is complete and successful? Does anyone know how long the download takes? Any help would be appreciated.



Since I set mine up Christmas Eve, it's been perfect....no problems.

Like others, I thought it would be a good idea to do the firmware update...but I didn't.

No one here has any idea what it 'fixes.'
Why do it if the machine is working just fine.
I've recorded several shows and all played back fine. I have a full 7 day guide. I haven't experienced any of the reboot or lockup problems. Are these related to the firmware update? Who knows. But if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!

Like others, I thought it would be a good idea to do the firmware update...but I didn't.

No one here has any idea what it 'fixes.'
Why do it if the machine is working just fine.
I've recorded several shows and all played back fine. I have a full 7 day guide. I haven't experienced any of the reboot or lockup problems. Are these related to the firmware update? Who knows. But if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!Ignoring a firmware update? That is probably one of the hardest things for mortal man to do. For many people a new firmware update is an irresistable candle flame. The thought of getting burned may occur but is pushed aside. We just have to have that update -- just because.

When I eventually get a Pal DVR, I have no intention of connecting it to the Internet.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

I have not upgraded the firmware yet and I too experienced this re-booting in the middle of a show the other day. It downloaded the guide data after rebooting and I am not using TVGOS. It ended up splitting the show I was recording into two different parts.

Have not seen it since.

Upgraded to Firmware F202 but still no go for the 1TB internal WD10EACS Western Digital Caviar Green drive attempt. For now I am hoping it might be usable in a future firmware version even if not officially supported.

Upgraded to Firmware F202 but still no go for the 1TB internal WD10EACS Western Digital Caviar Green drive attempt. For now I am hoping it might be usable in a future firmware version even if not officially supported.What revision of that drive do you have?

I ask, because virtually every known version of the WD10EACS, aside from the original WD10EACS-32ZJB0, does not work as a drive upgrade for the TiVo Series3. In fact, the WD10EACS is the only known 1TB drive that will not work as an internal upgrade for that TiVo. [It does work with the newer TiVoHD.]

There is at least a possibility the DTVPal DVR suffers from the same issue with the WD10EACS.

[QUOTE=dtvpaldvr2008;15400788].... Can I just connect the DVR directly to my router without connecting to TV screen to see what is going on? QUOTE]

The manual says that after sitting in standby for about an hour it will automatically download the latest compatible software. So I would say connect it, plug it in, press POWER (i.e. turn the DVR OFF or standby - the green light must be out) on the remote and let it set for a couple of hours. See page 32 of the manual.

After I did the initial setup next to the HDTV in the living room, I powered it down, waited a little bit and unplugged it. I carried it to where I have my computer and router. I connected the RF output to an old 19" TV I have in that room and to the router. I did the software update. Then disconnected it and moved it back to the living room.

Since then, twice it announced there was a problem with the Ethernet connection (duh, since it was connected anymore). After the second time I wanted to go in and reset the connection, but it was already reset. I haven't seen the message since.

I haven't experienced any lookups on mine yet.

What revision of that drive do you have?

I ask, because virtually every known version of the WD10EACS, aside from the original WD10EACS-32ZJB0, does not work as a drive upgrade for the TiVo Series3.

Oh great! WD10EACS-00C7B0 (Oct 2008). On the other hand, maybe there is a chance then for other models of 1TB drives on current DVR firmware. I will still hope that this eventually get supported.

Thanks for the info!

I have not upgraded the firmware yet and I too experienced this re-booting in the middle of a show the other day. It downloaded the guide data after rebooting and I am not using TVGOS.

Have you disabled TVGOS or is it just unavailable in your area?

I don't think it's a coincidence that only a 250 gb and 500 gb drive work in this thing. I think Dish is going to come out with a DTV Pal DVR "PLUS" which will have *TWICE* the capacity of the original and use the same firmware. Hence the firmware supports both size drives, but nothing else with more, less, or in between capacity. Just a WAG.

Remove the $50 rebate and double drive capacity. Now there's a strategy. I suspect this will happen with round 3 when preordering is no longer required. They are SELLING OUT at $250 a pop with a month wait, I'm sure they would bring $300 with a 500GB HD and no wait.

Anyone know what Zip will work for TVGOS data in the St. Louis area?

I've tried 63101, a downtown Zip code, and it didn't work.

Rather than "hit and miss", does anyone know of a Zip which does work?

Last night while in the DVR menu, I got a message saying that the IP was lost. However, my TR50 is not hooked up to the internet. I got the message 3 times or so while navigating through my recorded shows. That's the first time I've seen this message in the 4 days I've had it.

Anyone else see this message?

Anyone know what Zip will work for TVGOS data in the St. Louis area?

I've tried 63101, a downtown Zip code, and it didn't work.

Rather than "hit and miss", does anyone know of a Zip which does work?

It doesn't appear as if St Louis has a TVGOS station -
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

I'd suggest an email to your CBS station engineering.

Sorry, should have mentioned, I already checked with the engineering department of KMOV (local CBS affiliate), and they have confirmed they are already transmitting the TVGOS data as part of their digital signal.

So, my conclusion is that the data on "rabbitears" is not complete.

Sorry, should have mentioned, I already checked with the engineering department of KMOV (local CBS affiliate), and they have confirmed they are already transmitting the TVGOS data as part of their digital signal.

So, my conclusion is that the data on "rabbitears" is not complete.
You are probably right about that. They have my local CBS station (KOLR in Springfield, Mo) listed as having TVGOS, but I've been in touch with the station's engineer who tells me they are waiting for the equipment before they will be broadcasting TVGOS.

Sorry, should have mentioned, I already checked with the engineering department of KMOV (local CBS affiliate), and they have confirmed they are already transmitting the TVGOS data as part of their digital signal.

So, my conclusion is that the data on "rabbitears" is not complete.

Ok - in that case - find out the zip code of the station (63102) , use that
or,
try the one in the manual to pass TVGOS to analog devices.

You can tell if you have TVGOS data because the RED "TV Guide OnScreen" logo will be on the EPG.

I'd also be in touch with the station to help get this resolved.

Anyone reported the issues (lockups / downloading guide info in the middle of a recording, thereby splitting the recording) to DTV? I've yet to buy the DVR - was waiting to see what kind of issues folks had - so I can't report them but wondered what kind of response people got when reporting them (the few exchanges with support I've seen in this thread are not confidence inspiring) :-).

While the CBS affilitates are now transmitting the TVGOS data, I wonder if Dish is using this component from Macrovision for the software (firmware) updates?

http://www.macrovision.com/products/ce_manufacturers/connected_platform/software_update_service.htm

Last night while in the DVR menu, I got a message saying that the IP was lost. However, my TR50 is not hooked up to the internet. I got the message 3 times or so while navigating through my recorded shows. That's the first time I've seen this message in the 4 days I've had it.

Anyone else see this message?

That's the message I saw two times so far. I did temporarily hook it up to my router in another room so I could download F202. After the second of these messages, I was going to go into the menu and reset the connection (I had saw the reset option), but it had already been reset. Don't know if I will see the message again.

I may take the policy of updating until I see what others say about. With my Dish 625, I have no choice, it updates whenever Dish decides to update it. However, the Dish 508 give the choice of Automatic Update or Ask For Permission. I have avoided many buggy (and damaging) updates this way - they do eventually force an update, but at least in most cases, the serious bugs have been worked out until then.

I'm in no hurry to run an Ethernet cable to the DTVPal DVR (which will require running cable in the walls).

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

Suggest you look through the menus for DVR configuration settings. Remove any leading time and trailing time for padding of recordings and try again.

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

Yes, exact same shows, same issue, same resolution (maybe a page back in this thread). I tried to pad my recording of House to go to 8:01PM (CST) and it still gave me the conflict message (although I had no other recordings starting at 8PM)

Seems like something that could be fixed in the firmware. For example, if I always record 2 30 minute shows in sequence on Wednesday and a one time, one hour special comes on at the same time I won't be able to record it without canceling my weekly recordings and redoing them all :(

A bookmark feature would be neat. I don't know if other DVR's have this or not. I don't even see a way of displaying a counter or time meter to see where in the recording you are. Feature to be used if you wanted to return to a particular spot in a recording.

If you format the HDD, after it reboots the used entries in Daily Schedule are removed, except for any that are pending. :D

A bookmark feature would be neat. I don't know if other DVR's have this or not. I don't even see a way of displaying a counter or time meter to see where in the recording you are. Feature to be used if you wanted to return to a particular spot in a recording.
If you hit Pause during playback it shows where you are in minutes left.
You can also choose Resume in the menu for a title.

First off, I am NOT an avid A/V-ophile like some of you so please keep that in mind.
I am an old school boomer raised on OTA TV…never paid for TV reception in my life…probably never will. Have used VCR’s most of my life and DVD-RW’s the last few years for my recording needs.

Now that I have had my DVR for a few days I thought some of you would like this type of perspective.

The TV is a Sony KV-34HS510 (34” 16:9 1080i capable) with the DVR hooked up via HDMI to DVI cable, separate audio. Setup was a snap. I then hooked it up to my network via network cable and did a FW update to F202 with no problem at all. I never did look at the options in F201 so I have no idea what, if anything, was different in the two versions. It could have just been a test to see if the update module works as planned.

My overall impression is that I like this box very much, and that is saying something as my DTVPal CECB was/is a very disappointing experience and I was all ready to find every little thing I could to be wrong with the DVR.
But, I am pleasantly surprised to see just how well it does what Dish claimed it would do. I have digital TVGOS in my market so my clock is spot on (we all know this was a major issue with the CECB Pal) and I have the full 7 day guide.

As an aside: I am not sure I get how you can/would disable the TVGOS on this box as has been suggested…my understanding is that if the digital TVGOS is available the DVR will use that for the guide and clock function and the option to disable the guide download is for the PSIP guide only. I believe the TVGOS download is pushed by TVGOS overnight and several times during the day and I know of no device that is TVGOS enabled that can demand a download of the TVGOS stream…that is why they tell you the unit must be off overnight to populate the guide the first time it is set up. In any case I disabled the “guide” download on my box from the start and got the TVGOS guide by the next morning, and I have never re-enabled the “guide” download yet my TVGOS guide stays up to date with 7 days of data.

The PQ (IMHO) is excellent. On my 34” HD ready set it is outstanding. The only thing I have noticed is that, when I set the output to 1080i, on actual HD broadcasts I can see a slightly purplish stripe from top to bottom running across the screen from right to left. It can only be seen when the screen is black (or very dark) like when a commercial ends or starts and it is not present when I change to 780p output. It does not affect normal TV viewing and I am thinking it may have something to do with the HDMI to DVI setup.

There is one thing I have noticed and this may be due to the HDMI to DVI cable as well but I do not know. The AUTO setting for the zoom does not appear to work when you land on a channel. It will work if you toggle through the five options and come back to Auto but not when you first tune to the channel. To try and explain: Several of the sub stations here force the picture to fit your screen (at least that is what it looks like to me because on the CECB box those channels will fill the screen and render the Picture Format button on the Pal’s remote ineffective), and on the DVR when I view those channels the 4:3 broadcast is in true 4:3 with black pillars on the sides if I have the zoom set to Auto or Normal. However, if I toggle through and back to Auto the picture then fills the screen, and if I just change channels without toggling back to Auto I see the picture expand to fill the screen just before it actually changes to the new channel. So, if it is not due to the HDMI to DVI setup, then it is a minor FW issue that can be addressed with a future update...I hope.

I have been able to set many recordings using all the different ways and all have fired just fine…all have been fully recorded and playback was superb. I have seen the same message others have seen about some of the recordings being lost due to signal loss. However, I believe this is due to padding that was applied to those specific recording events (and the padding applied to specific events is separate from those you can set in the overall recording options). When you tell the DVR to pad the recording it sees that you are recording into a different “named” event (or show if you like) and is telling you that show was not fully recorded. Every time I have seen this message it meets this scenario.
Also, it appears that even though it does not show up in the guide screen itself, early and late program start times are recognized and recordings are started to accommodate the early or late start times. I.E. Saturday Night Live begins at 11:29 and if you set the recording through the guide it actually begins on time (even if the padding is set to 0 minutes), the same is true of Letterman (it begins at 11:35).

I have not experienced any reboots has others have reported.

As I said…I like this box. It is nice to have what most other folks have had for years now with their satellite and cable service…the ability to time shift and record TV without any external storage media, and I finally get HD out of my HD ready set that cost a fortune a few years back. The TVGOS guide is great and the GUI is nice (ya know I got nothing to compare to but even so…it is nice). So, as much as I still hate the level of service offered by Dish…I believe they got it right on this DVR.

Nice review, please follow up in a few weeks. I'm curious to see if you experience any of the lockups some have been experiencing.
I think this box was more designed around someone like you and not a real demanding user :)If it works well for Dish I'm hoping for a more + version. Then they'll probably call this model the Pal Classic:D

Bob,

That is a nice TV you have...I keep my eye on craigslist for one, quite often. I, like you, have been pleased with the box. Having a Sony HD DVR also, I do have something to compare it to and the UI of the Sony it much nicer. But I'll give that up for a dual tuner machine.

(Sony Screen Shots)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/28/2204106/ebay/dvr-screen1.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/28/2204106/ebay/dvr-screen3.jpg

I do like how you can see the mini-guide while the TV is playing and then change channels from there with the DTVPal DVR. Also, the signal strength is something the Sony didn't provide.

Warning: The skimpy 90 day warranty begins when you ordered the box, not when it was delivered.
When I finally got to a tech support guy, he asked how the box could be DOA when I had it since November 20th. There is nothing in their computer system to indicate these were back-ordered and that I did not get my box until Dec 23rd.

I would suggest recording your UPS tracking number in case you need warranty service.

I called at 11:31 AM and was put on hold for tech support until 11:41. At this time, the call bounced back to their operator and I was put on hold for another 10 minutes. When I finally got a tech person, he did not know how to write-up a return and had to put me on hold several times while he got more info. I finally finished around 12:15, 45 minutes total.

You have to return the unit to Englewood Colorado.
Once they receive the unit, they will verify the problem and determine if the user casued the damage. If so, they will send a letter with additional repair costs. If the unit is bad, they will send a replacement in 3-5 business days. This is their standard language. Given that the boxes are back-oredered, I really don't wxpect anything until late January.

Another thing, you have to enclose a copy of your proof of purchase. I asked the rep why since he told me that I purchased the unit on November 20 from them. They have the proof of purchase. He couldn't explain and I didn't want to stay on the phone any longer.

So:
They charged my credit card on November 20th,
Didn't deliver until Dec 23rd,
Sent a bad unit,
Required me to spend $10 to return it,
and my warranty will expire before I get a replacement.
Definitely not a good first impression of Dish.
Stan

Definitely not a good first impression of Dish.
Stan

Ouch. Sorry for your pain, but thanks for the info. Please continue to update us on the rest of your return experience (time-frames, etc) if you are able.

Did they tell you that there would be no extension to the warranty or is that a (very good) educated guess?

Not sure if any has returned there reciever yet, but I'm in the process, the follwoing is a list of my problems, most important to the least important.

1> Reciever, re-initialzes (takes 1 - 2 minutes) while watching a show, this has occured several times in the last week.

2> In the morning, occasionally completely locked up, needs to be unplugged to be reset.

3> I don't get TVGOS, and the psip data comes and goes in the guide, that is the guide will have a day of information one hour, then none the next hour.

4> Will cancel recordings, without any explanation.

I would stick with this unit if it wasn't for the re-initializing in the middle of a show, that is just rediculouse, and I hope their progammers aren't working on any Bowing 747 software.

BTW, so far I've been on the phone for hour and 15 minutes trying to return this, 3 operator transfers, and many holds, and I'm still not done... sigh.

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

Known issue - do it like you did - do the overlapping recording first, then the shorter ones.

Do you think they will add 1080p in the future?

Do you think they will add 1080p in the future?
High-def broadcasts are either 720p or 1080i...no 1080p

Do you think they will add 1080p in the future?

what avnstf said

but would be nice if they enabled 1080p VOD like they have on DISH

Another thing, you have to enclose a copy of your proof of purchase. I asked the rep why since he told me that I purchased the unit on November 20 from them. They have the proof of purchase. He couldn't explain and I didn't want to stay on the phone any longer.


I guess I better hope mine never goes bad...they just charged my card and sent me the box...no proof of purchase at all.

I guess I better hope mine never goes bad...they just charged my card and sent me the box...no proof of purchase at all.
If all else fails your credit card statement should be proof.

Ok, just got my dvr hooked it directly to my router which is right below it (it is working I am using it for this post and it is using DHCP). No IP address assigned when I click on the setup/broadband/Network Setup/Reset.

Any ideas, it doesn't seem to allow me to set it up manually. At the bottom of the network setup screen it says "Network Connected".

Other than that I like it so far.

Ok, just got my dvr hooked it directly to my router which is right below it (it is working I am using it for this post and it is using DHCP). No IP address assigned when I click on the setup/broadband/Network Setup/Reset.

Any ideas, it doesn't seem to allow me to set it up manually. At the bottom of the network setup screen it says "Network Connected".

Other than that I like it so far.

Make sure you have an open DHCP address in your pool on your router. Sorry - no manual configuration of network is possible.

Make sure you have an open DHCP address in your pool on your router. Sorry - no manual configuration of network is possible.

PITB! It shows up in my router table with an IP (matched by MAC address). I hate "smart" systems when they do not work!


Firewall settings? Doesn't seem to be, opened everything up temporarily, no go.

I had to set the time manually, EST, it was an hour behind.

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

I had this happen and I assume it's because, behind the scene, Big Bang Theory was setup to record using tuner 1, then How I Met Your Mother was setup to record using tuner 2, then House didn't have an available tuner for recording. You could have done Big Bang Theory (tuner1) then House (tuner2) and then How I Met Your Mother(tuner1). This will happen whenever your setup recording for two shows following each other and then try a third which would overlap. I can only assume that because it seems the recorder starts about a minute early and goes past the end a bit, that by default, it uses different tuners when available. It would be nice if it showed which tuner was being used to record the show, then it would right in your face! :D

Bob,

That is a nice TV you have...I keep my eye on craigslist for one, quite often. I, like you, have been pleased with the box. Having a Sony HD DVR also, I do have something to compare it to and the UI of the Sony it much nicer. But I'll give that up for a dual tuner machine.

(Sony Screen Shots)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/28/2204106/ebay/dvr-screen1.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/28/2204106/ebay/dvr-screen3.jpg

I do like how you can see the mini-guide while the TV is playing and then change channels from there with the DTVPal DVR. Also, the signal strength is something the Sony didn't provide.


It was there hidden about 5 menu levels deep. The tuner was crappy in the Sony, it couldn't handle multipath at all, this DVR is way better for that.

Content search in the Sony was way better (and prettier too!)

Question about the dual tuner capability:

I generally record blocks of 2-3 x 1hr shows that are back-to-back and on different channels. Everyone knows about the stupid games ABC plays by running their shows 1 min past the hour so I won't go into that any further. With my single tuner DVD recorder I obviously cannot pad the recording times when recording back-to-back shows.

So, I'm thinking that with the Pal DVRs 2 tuners, I should be able to schedule a string of back-to-back recordings on different channels and be able to pad the record times of each one. The recordings will overlap slightly, so the Pal DVR should just use alternate tuners for each sequential event.

Sound reasonable? Has anyone tried this, or could someone try this, and report back, please. This would be another big plus for me -- I wouldn't have to keep running to the Internet to view the last couple minutes of Heros on-line.

Is anyone else's machine randomly rebooting? It just happened to me during a commercial during the Eagles-Cowboys game. It shut itself down, came back on with the DTV Pal screen, and then re-downloaded the guide data.

I have upgraded to the latest firmware. This is probably the third time this has happened since I hooked it up on the 24th.

Did this to me at least 3 times during the Patriots game. I was getting about a 93% Signal Strength. They need to fix this immediately. Is it fixed by turning off the automatic update? Doesn't seem likely. I also have the update loaded. Sounds like they also need to fix some timer issues. I was also wondering why not a Picture in Picture, since it has dual tuners although this is really not a big deal on an HDTV.

Does anyone get the TVGOS data from one DMA, and have it also give the data for the nearby DMA? Curious if it is for just a particular DMA?

Disconnect from the Internet.

Disconnect from the Internet.What does this refer to, chuck.

In reference to trying to get a refund on this product:

Update, after an hour and a half on being on hold and talking to 5 representatives, it was determined that this product is non refundable, and they indicated that they are not associated with dtvpal.com, they told me a lot of stuff like that. Anyway, I have submitted a complaint to the better business bureau, I'll see what they say about it.

I was also wondering why not a Picture in Picture, since it has dual tuners...

There is some speculation that even though the unit has two tuners, it only has one MPEG decoder. If this speculation is correct (for cost reasons, perhaps?), then only a single video stream can be displayed at a time.

Actually, there are 1080p formats in the ATSC OTA table. They're just not used.

ATSC DTV Formats (18)

Vert-lines....Pixels........Aspect Ratio........Picture Rate
...1080........1920..............16:9............60I...30P.. .24P
....720........1280..............16:9.............60P...30P. ..24P
....480.........704..........16:9 & 4:3........60P...60I...30P...24P
....480.........640...............4:3...............60P...60 I...30P...24P

Previously we had channels 2-83
In 2004 we had channels 2-69
After conversion, we will have channels 2-51

Does anyone get the TVGOS data from one DMA, and have it also give the data for the nearby DMA? Curious if it is for just a particular DMA?

Yes, I have the zip code set to Baltimore and it has now 7 days fully populated for the Harrisburg channels except for three, NBC-8, ABC-27 and IND-49. At first it only populated the Harrisburg channels CW-15 and Fox-43. Today I noticed that it populated for PBS-33 and CBS-21; though I not receiving this channel, interestingly the DTVPal DVR knows about this channel because it added WHPDT-21 (21-1) and it's one sub-channel (21-2) - it's actually at channel 4, and my antenna is not good for lo-VHF.

I just got the antenna tuned and wasn't getting NBC-8 before today, so it will be interesting too see if NBC-8 populates overnight. It hasn't populated for IND-49 (though I don't care about this channel) and I am still not able to receive ABC-27 (though the DTVPal DVR knows there is a channel there because it added 10-1, 10-2 and 10-3 but it hasn't identified it as WHTMDT-27 or its sub-channels at the correct 27-1, 27-2 and 27-3).

Possibly Harrisburg is close to Baltimore that WJZ-13 (CBS) is also supplying TVGOS data for these channels in addition to the Baltimore channels? WHP-21 (CBS) does not have TVGOS data according to rabbitears and I am not receiving this channel anyway, so I doubt and TVGOS data is coming from there for the Harrisburg channels, nor would it be coming from PSIP for all 7 days.

What does this refer to, chuck.
Hi Kelson,
There is some evidence that some of the problems have happened to folks that have connected the ethernet
to update the as yet officially unreleased new fw, then left it connected.
Personally, if I do ever upgrade the fw it will only be via USB and then only if there are release notes for it.

As an aside: I am not sure I get how you can/would disable the TVGOS . . . my understanding is that . . . the option to disable the guide download is for the PSIP guide only. . . . In any case I disabled the “guide” download on my box from the start and got the TVGOS guide by the next morning, and I have never re-enabled the “guide” download yet my TVGOS guide stays up to date with 7 days of data.

I have not experienced any reboots has others have reported.First of all, thank you for the nice summary of your impressions and experiences. I've read many of your posts in the DTVPal CECB thread so I know you would not be shy about reporting things you don't like -- noone would ever call you a Dish fanboy. Let's hope others who have the DVR will also start to issue review posts.

Second, the part of your post I have quoted above is very interesting. It's a great piece of data to keep in mind. I hope those who have posted recently about their reboot problems will take note and disable their "guide download" also then see if that eliminates the reboot problem.

Personally, if I do ever upgrade the fw it will only be via USB and then only if there are release notes for it.ditto (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15400855&postcount=528).

Dish has a "buyers remorse" that allows buyers to return products they don't like after a very short time. Since I ordered my DVR on November 20th, I had passed the deadline, even though the DVR did not arrive until Dec 23rd. My unit was not elegible for a refund. I did send it in for repairs. You may want to use that argument.
Where did it say on their website that the unit is not refundable?
I did not notice that when I ordered mine.

Where did it say on their website that the unit is not refundable?
I did not notice that when I ordered mine.

I'm not sure if it is on the website or when I talked to someone but they did make it clear it was non-refundable.

I had this happen and I assume it's because, behind the scene, Big Bang Theory was setup to record using tuner 1, then How I Met Your Mother was setup to record using tuner 2, then House didn't have an available tuner for recording. You could have done Big Bang Theory (tuner1) then House (tuner2) and then How I Met Your Mother(tuner1). This will happen whenever your setup recording for two shows following each other and then try a third which would overlap. I can only assume that because it seems the recorder starts about a minute early and goes past the end a bit, that by default, it uses different tuners when available. It would be nice if it showed which tuner was being used to record the show, then it would right in your face! :D

Excellent first post!!:)
So simple yet no one else caught it, I'm sure you nailed it on the head.

I hope those who have posted recently about their reboot problems will take note and disable their "guide download" also then see if that eliminates the reboot problem.

I mis-stated disabling TVGOS, when I should have stated that I disabled the guide download. Since doing that, it's been 3 days without reboot or "lockup" problems.

Here's an interesting one...I scanned the guide for tonight and I pressed record for Big Bang Theory at 8pm and How I Met Your Mother right after (WCBS-2 DT-56). I tried to press record for House (WNYW-5 DT-44) and it said there was a conflict. I removed the 1st 2 timers, pressed record for House and then I was able to press record for the 2 CBS shows. Anyone have this happen??

YES. Others also have reported a similar problem. One other solution is to program the long program first then add the shorter ones but since I already had the first ones scheduled and then added House later I did not like that approach. Should not have to do anything though so I consider this to be a problem in the SW.

I shortened Big Bang to 29 minutes (no padding on either end) and it took it. I didn't see anything in the manual about this. My E85 says that if two programs are back to back they will automatically trim the start and stop.

Do we know if Echostar is monitoring this thread or has anyone sent comments to Tech@echostar.com?

YES. Others also have reported a similar problem. One other solution is to program the long program first then add the shorter ones but since I already had the first ones scheduled and then added House later I did not like that approach. Should not have to do anything though so I consider this to be a problem in the SW.

I shortened Big Bang to 29 minutes (no padding on either end) and it took it. I didn't see anything in the manual about this. My E85 says that if two programs are back to back they will automatically trim the start and stop.

Do we know if Echostar is monitoring this thread or has anyone sent comments to Tech@echostar.com?

Echostar knows about this one.

Ok, just got my dvr hooked it directly to my router which is right below it (it is working I am using it for this post and it is using DHCP). No IP address assigned when I click on the setup/broadband/Network Setup/Reset.

Any ideas, it doesn't seem to allow me to set it up manually. At the bottom of the network setup screen it says "Network Connected".

Other than that I like it so far.

Maybe you don't have to do anything. I just plugged my internet cable in and told the DVR to force an update then disconnected it from network. Everything was automatic.

...Where did it say on their website that the unit is not refundable?
I did not notice that when I ordered mine.
Item 4 in the "Sales Disclosures" at:

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/builddish/dtvpal/salesDisclosures.do

"4. All DTVPal sales are final"

Can anyone state (step by step) how to disable the guide download to prevent the random reboots from happening? I am trying to walk my mother through this over the phone, and have not been able to find it on the manual online or by having her search for it. Thanks in advance!

Suggest you look through the menus for DVR configuration settings. Remove any leading time and trailing time for padding of recordings and try again.

I did. Didn't help.

I had this happen and I assume it's because, behind the scene, Big Bang Theory was setup to record using tuner 1, then How I Met Your Mother was setup to record using tuner 2, then House didn't have an available tuner for recording. You could have done Big Bang Theory (tuner1) then House (tuner2) and then How I Met Your Mother(tuner1). This will happen whenever your setup recording for two shows following each other and then try a third which would overlap. I can only assume that because it seems the recorder starts about a minute early and goes past the end a bit, that by default, it uses different tuners when available. It would be nice if it showed which tuner was being used to record the show, then it would right in your face! :D

Question about the dual tuner capability:

I generally record blocks of 2-3 x 1hr shows ....

See the above quote. It seems to be a reasonable explaination for what we are seeing. Looks like the DVR uses 2 tuners for back to back shows so that nothing is lost and when you add another program it doesn't realocate the tuners. If you schedule the long program first then the DVR knows that it can't schedule the tuners that way.

My point is that you may have to do a little noodleing to schedule everything because the DVR is not that smart.

I'm having trouble with the DTVPAL recognizing the resolution of my TV. I have a new Mitsubishi 65835 DLP. It is a 1080p unit. I've connected to the HDMI input 1 on the TV. I have also connected to the coax ports in anticipation of using the pass-through option.

I select the 1080i option in the setup process. The DTVPAL keeps returning to the selection screen with 480p selected. Any thoughts?

Known issue - do it like you did - do the overlapping recording first, then the shorter ones.


Ok, then...thanks........(stupid programmers)

I had this happen and I assume it's because, behind the scene, Big Bang Theory was setup to record using tuner 1, then How I Met Your Mother was setup to record using tuner 2, then House didn't have an available tuner for recording. You could have done Big Bang Theory (tuner1) then House (tuner2) and then How I Met Your Mother(tuner1). This will happen whenever your setup recording for two shows following each other and then try a third which would overlap. I can only assume that because it seems the recorder starts about a minute early and goes past the end a bit, that by default, it uses different tuners when available. It would be nice if it showed which tuner was being used to record the show, then it would right in your face! :D

Very intuitive thinking on your part. Maybe then a new addition to the interface would be what tuner to use?

Can anyone state (step by step) how to disable the guide download to prevent the random reboots from happening? I am trying to walk my mother through this over the phone, and have not been able to find it on the manual online or by having her search for it. Thanks in advance!

May not be relevant but I set mine to 3AM and have not had a problem.

Can anyone state (step by step) how to disable the guide download to prevent the random reboots from happening? I am trying to walk my mother through this over the phone, and have not been able to find it on the manual online or by having her search for it. Thanks in advance!
Menu, Setup, Updates. Change Enabled to Disabled.

I'm having trouble with the DTVPAL recognizing the resolution of my TV. I have a new Mitsubishi 65835 DLP. It is a 1080p unit. I've connected to the HDMI input 1 on the TV. I have also connected to the coax ports in anticipation of using the pass-through option.

I select the 1080i option in the setup process. The DTVPAL keeps returning to the selection screen with 480p selected. Any thoughts?

Ok - so then the screen should have displayed a warning message about changing resolutions - then you punch Yes / Ok to change resolutions If it doesn't get any input, it times out and goes back to 480P.

Have you disabled TVGOS or is it just unavailable in your area?

I don't even know if TVGOS is available in Lincoln, NE. I thought that needed some type of infrared device in front of the unit. How would I see if it is available and how do I enable it?

Maybe you don't have to do anything. I just plugged my internet cable in and told the DVR to force an update then disconnected it from network. Everything was automatic.


Update doesn't work because there is no internet connection. If it won't pick up its own IP address then it won't get updates over IP.

Ok, just got my dvr hooked it directly to my router which is right below it (it is working I am using it for this post and it is using DHCP). No IP address assigned when I click on the setup/broadband/Network Setup/Reset.

Any ideas, it doesn't seem to allow me to set it up manually. At the bottom of the network setup screen it says "Network Connected".

Other than that I like it so far.

You should try shutting down both the router and the DVR. Then turn on the router and wait for it to light up normally, then turn on the DVR and see if it acquired an address. It sounds like the router saw the DVR and assigned an address but the DVR did not accept it. Letting the DHCP happen on a cold boot should do the trick.
[/URL]
Also, check what Scooper said here [URL="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15407515#post15407515"]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15407515#post15407515 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15407515#post15407515)

I don't even know if TVGOS is available in Lincoln, NE. I thought that needed some type of infrared device in front of the unit. How would I see if it is available and how do I enable it?

Digital TVGOS is usually sent by your local CBS affiliate. Try contacting their engineering dept. to see if they are carrying it. If they are, and the DVR sees it, you will see a RED TV Guide On Screen logo on the EPG. There is nothing to activate except put in a zip code (either yours or the stations, depending).

If you don't get the TVGOS logo, your DVR will be using PSIP data sent from each station. The fast way to get a full screen of data then is to tune to each major channel number (e.g. in my area : 5 select, 11 select, 17 select, 22 select, 28 select, 36 select, 47 select, 50 select, then goto the EPG. Let it sit about 3-5 seconds on each channel.

Dish has a "buyers remorse" that allows buyers to return products they don't like after a very short time. Since I ordered my DVR on November 20th, I had passed the deadline, even though the DVR did not arrive until Dec 23rd. My unit was not elegible for a refund. I did send it in for repairs. You may want to use that argument.
Where did it say on their website that the unit is not refundable?
I did not notice that when I ordered mine.

Not sure how you paid for it, but in my case I used American Express which has a no hassle return policy. If you did use an American Express card, you call them and send the unit to them and they credit you. Using an American Express also extends the warranty by one year up to 5 years. For example, you have a 1 year warranty on something, if you bought it with Amex, it now has a two year warranty. This is certain cards only, but mine does both, so if I do have a problem, I am calling American Express and not Dish Network. Good Luck!

Digital TVGOS is usually sent by your local CBS affiliate. Try contacting their engineering dept. to see if they are carrying it. If they are, and the DVR sees it, you will see a RED TV Guide On Screen logo on the EPG. There is nothing to activate except put in a zip code (either yours or the stations, depending).

If you don't get the TVGOS logo, your DVR will be using PSIP data sent from each station. The fast way to get a full screen of data then is to tune to each major channel number (e.g. in my area : 5 select, 11 select, 17 select, 22 select, 28 select, 36 select, 47 select, 50 select, then goto the EPG. Let it sit about 3-5 seconds on each channel.

I am pretty sure I saw a TVGuide logo in the top right the other day. Is this just for the CBS channel or will it include a guide for all channels including ABC, Fox, etc?

First of all, thank you for the nice summary of your impressions and experiences. I've read many of your posts in the DTVPal CECB thread so I know you would not be shy about reporting things you don't like -- noone would ever call you a Dish fanboy. Let's hope others who have the DVR will also start to issue review posts.

Second, the part of your post I have quoted above is very interesting. It's a great piece of data to keep in mind. I hope those who have posted recently about their reboot problems will take note and disable their "guide download" also then see if that eliminates the reboot problem.

Thanks...yep..no Dish fanboy here.
And I think that disabling the guide download will help those with that problem...besides I see no reason to have it happen if you are getting TVGOS guide as it is far superior to the alternative.

I mis-stated disabling TVGOS, when I should have stated that I disabled the guide download. Since doing that, it's been 3 days without reboot or "lockup" problems.

I had a feeling that it would...good to hear.

Hi Kelson,
There is some evidence that some of the problems have happened to folks that have connected the ethernet
to update the as yet officially unreleased new fw, then left it connected.
Personally, if I do ever upgrade the fw it will only be via USB and then only if there are release notes for it.

Maybe. However, my machine was rebooting BEFORE I updated, as well as after the update. I only had my Ethernet connected during the update process.

I am pretty sure I saw a TVGuide logo in the top right the other day. Is this just for the CBS channel or will it include a guide for all channels including ABC, Fox, etc?

TVGOS (in my area) includes all local stations that it has as "receiveable". Now, occaisionally - I get some out-of-area oddballs that it just happened to pickup. If the signal is receiveable it pulls TVGOS data for it, otherwise - it shows "No Information Available".

Hi Kelson,
There is some evidence that some of the problems have happened to folks that have connected the ethernet
to update the as yet officially unreleased new fw, then left it connected.
Personally, if I do ever upgrade the fw it will only be via USB and then only if there are release notes for it.

I only got the update, because it was a gift. The in-laws don't have an ethernet connection to the internet. It isn't connected anymore, and it doesn't sound like the problem is exclusive to people who have updated.

How would everyone rate the tuner in this box? I'm currently using it as a converter box for my analog TV, and my reception is nowhere near what my Channel Master CM-7000 pulls in. I'm getting a few garbled recordings, yet my signal is almost always in the 90s.

Anyone reported the issues (lockups / downloading guide info in the middle of a recording, thereby splitting the recording) to DTV?DTV? DTV = Digital TV. Do you mean Dish?

First off, I am NOT an avid A/V-ophile like some of you so please keep that in mind.
I am an old school boomer raised on OTA TV…never paid for TV reception in my life…probably never will. Have used VCR’s most of my life and DVD-RW’s the last few years for my recording needs.

Now that I have had my DVR for a few days I thought some of you would like this type of perspective.Thanks, very nice.

So:
They charged my credit card on November 20th,
Didn't deliver until Dec 23rd,
Sent a bad unit,
Required me to spend $10 to return it,
and my warranty will expire before I get a replacement.
Definitely not a good first impression of Dish.
Stan

Not good.

How would everyone rate the tuner in this box? I'm currently using it as a converter box for my analog TV, and my reception is nowhere near what my Channel Master CM-7000 pulls in. I'm getting a few garbled recordings, yet my signal is almost always in the 90s.
I rate it quite good. Better than my Sanyo HDTV or my Philips DVDR3575H/37.

Item 4 in the "Sales Disclosures" at:

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/builddish/dtvpal/salesDisclosures.do

"4. All DTVPal sales are final"

Call your credit card company / bank.

How do I enable TVGOS? Why does it tell me the ratings, settings, DVR, etc will be disabled if I enable the TVPlus?

Thanks...yep..no Dish fanboy here.
And I think that disabling the guide download will help those with that problem...besides I see no reason to have it happen if you are getting TVGOS guide as it is far superior to the alternative.

I had the in-laws disable the Update setting tonight. We'll see if this fixes it. They don't get TVGOS now though. I told them to swing their antenna over to Madison, WI tonight too, and see if they get that TVGOS guide info. I didn't have them change their Zip though, so we shall see about that as well.

How do I enable TVGOS? Why does it tell me the ratings, settings, DVR, etc will be disabled if I enable the TVPlus?
TVGOS is enabled by default IF it's available in your area.
The TVGOS and TVPlus settings are ONLY to send TVGOS data to an
analog TV, recorder etc that is TVGOS capable
(but why anyone would want to is beyond me).
They are NOT for the DTVPal DVR's own use.

Ok - so then the screen should have displayed a warning message about changing resolutions - then you punch Yes / Ok to change resolutions If it doesn't get any input, it times out and goes back to 480P.
Thanks, I am up & going now. Everything seems to be working. I did have a lock-up already while I was watching LiveTV. Had to unplug the unit to reset.

You should try shutting down both the router and the DVR. Then turn on the router and wait for it to light up normally, then turn on the DVR and see if it acquired an address. It sounds like the router saw the DVR and assigned an address but the DVR did not accept it. Letting the DHCP happen on a cold boot should do the trick.

Also, check what Scooper said here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15407515#post15407515 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15407515#post15407515)


Good thought, I had tried that already but, no result. Will try again tomorrow.

Rank Noob here....
Bought mine on the 19th, and the UPS guy delivered mine tonight about 8.

Been reading all the posts on the TVGOS and I have a couple of questions:
I'm in Atlanta, and I am unsure whether I use my real zip, the stations zip, or teh "alternate" zip in the back of the manual.

Secondly, does Retro TV (RTN) get any data when you get the TVGOS feed? All I get now is "best TV" or something like that for every time slot.

First impressions are just like most everyone else; I'm ecstatic so far......

Thanks to all of you who have been posting and helping teh rest of us along the way!

Rank Noob here....
Bought mine on the 19th, and the UPS guy delivered mine tonight about 8.

Been reading all the posts on the TVGOS and I have a couple of questions:
I'm in Atlanta, and I am unsure whether I use my real zip, the stations zip, or teh "alternate" zip in the back of the manual.

Secondly, does Retro TV (RTN) get any data when you get the TVGOS feed? All I get now is "best TV" or something like that for every time slot.

First impressions are just like most everyone else; I'm ecstatic so far......

Thanks to all of you who have been posting and helping teh rest of us along the way!

Use your real zip code, it should be fine. As far as the RTN, mine schedule is accurate...however, I get no NBC data from TVGOS data (only PSIP). I've emailed my local CBS station to see who needs to correct the issue.

May not be relevant but I set mine to 3AM and have not had a problem.

I did the same thing but at 4AM but I have not used it like Sunday when it reboot multiple times when watching football for the nearly 10 hours.

Use your real zip code, it should be fine. As far as the RTN, mine schedule is accurate...however, I get no NBC data from TVGOS data (only PSIP). I've emailed my local CBS station to see who needs to correct the issue.


My TVGOS data was in when I got up and checked it at 4:30AM, and it did indeed have teh RTN data, which my Insignia box never had...

Thx

Does anyone get the TVGOS data from one DMA, and have it also give the data for the nearby DMA? Curious if it is for just a particular DMA?

I use analog TVGOS from a station in Greenville SC, with my Sony HD DVR. It also includes data for stations in Columbia SC, Charlotte NC, Atlanta GA, Knoxville TN, Tri-Cities (Johnson City / Kingsport / Bristol) TN / VA, and I think Chattanooga TN.

This is nice for me because I can receive several stations from Columbia and Charlotte, in addition to Greenville (my "home" DMA).

Upgraded to Firmware F202 but still no go for the 1TB internal WD10EACS Western Digital Caviar Green drive attempt. For now I am hoping it might be usable in a future firmware version even if not officially supported.

What revision of that drive do you have?

I ask, because virtually every known version of the WD10EACS, aside from the original WD10EACS-32ZJB0, does not work as a drive upgrade for the TiVo Series3. In fact, the WD10EACS is the only known 1TB drive that will not work as an internal upgrade for that TiVo. [It does work with the newer TiVoHD.]

There is at least a possibility the DTVPal DVR suffers from the same issue with the WD10EACS.

Oh great! WD10EACS-00C7B0 (Oct 2008). On the other hand, maybe there is a chance then for other models of 1TB drives on current DVR firmware. I will still hope that this eventually get supported.

Thanks for the info!I have a couple WD10EACS drives in my RAID 1 setup. I could pull one out for use in the DTVPal DVR if it is suitable. However, the part number does not match the one you list. I see WD10EACS-00ZJB0 and a date of 2 Oct 2007. As you can see, the last four letters match, but the first two numbers are different. Is there any chance this can work? Can you direct me to a location where I can read more about this issue?

TIA!

Reg

Edit: I found some discussion on tivocommunity.com and here is some of what I read there:

1) WD10EACS-32ZJB0 is a drive sold in a retail box.
2) WD10EACS-00ZJB0 is a drive sold for OEM use (no box, just a mylar bag).
3) Western Digital claims these two drives are identical other than how they are labeled and sold.
4) Users have reported the same firmware being available on both drives.
5) WD10EACS-32ZJB0 works fine as an upgrade inside a TiVo S3 while WD10EACS-00ZJB0 works, but cannot be rebooted by software. Only a power down will restart it, making software updates problematic.
6) Both of these drives work fine inside a TiVo-HD unit.

Does anyone have any further information, as 3) and 5) above seem to be conflicting?

I had a feeling that it would...good to hear.
I've had problems with mine locking up while watching it. Could someone please explain what happens if I disable the menu>setup>updates (i.e. no more guide data, only 24 hrs, etc.)? Thanks.

haven't ordered one yet because my concern is no QAM support down the road. That would not be a problem here in NY but florida has cable, in PA would need cable and paying $249 for something that would not work down the road bothers me. Now that i'm reading the problems many are having seams also to make me want to wait and hope Panasonic or another electronic company will see the light and make one of these that work right the first time.

Hi,

I don't have a Dish DTVPal DVR yet but I will order one soon. I have several questions that may have been answered already but I can't seem to find the answers.

1). How do you do a software upgrade if your internet connection is just dial up? Is there a usb port?

2). What is DMA?

3). Has anyone recorded 2 shows simultaneously? How has that worked?

4). How do you copy a recorded show onto a DVD?

Thanks

Ken M

QAM without CableCARD will be too limited in utility for some people. For some insight into what a box that provides QAM with CableCARD capability would cost, take a look at the new Moxi ($800).

Hi,

I don't have a Dish DTVPal DVR yet but I will order one soon. I have several questions that may have been answered already but I can't seem to find the answers.

1). How do you do a software upgrade if your internet connection is just dial up? Is there a usb port?

There is a USB port, you would download the update (even over your phoneline - but updates have typically been 8 MB or so), and extract them to /update on your USB stick. Put the USB drive in, and go for it.

2). What is DMA?
Designated Market Area. Do some googling on Nielson Media Company for more information

3). Has anyone recorded 2 shows simultaneously? How has that worked?
Works, scheduling can sometimes be a bit tricky. Set the timer for the overlapping show, then any shorter shows.

4). How do you copy a recorded show onto a DVD?

In real time, using the composite and analog audio jacks into your device that records DVDs.

Thanks

Ken M

I don't even know if TVGOS is available in Lincoln, NE. I thought that needed some type of infrared device in front of the unit. How would I see if it is available and how do I enable it?

According with http://www.rabbitears.info TVGOS is not available in Lincoln. The closest source of digital TVGOS (according to this source) is CBS out of Sioux City Iowa, which is to far away to get it. I e-mailed both CBS affiliates in area (Lincoln/Omaha), but never received any response from them.
Are you sure there is TVGOS logo in the programming guide, and you have info for 7 days? Lack of the TVGOS in the area is the only reason why I have not order DTVPAL Dvr yet.

Item 4 in the "Sales Disclosures" at:

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/builddish/dtvpal/salesDisclosures.do

"4. All DTVPal sales are final"

Keeping in mind that any "all sales are final" condition does not apply if the merchandise is defective. Unless the sale is specified to be "as is", which this one clearly is not.

So will TVGOS be available eventually to all markets for our Pal DVR or is it just luck of the draw to be in a market that supplies it?

I have a couple WD10EACS drives in my RAID 1 setup. I could pull one out for use in the DTVPal DVR if it is suitable. However, the part number does not match the one you list. I see WD10EACS-00ZJB0 and a date of 2 Oct 2007. As you can see, the last four letters match, but the first two numbers are different. Is there any chance this can work? Can you direct me to a location where I can read more about this issue?

TIA!

Reg

Edit: I found some discussion on tivocommunity.com and here is some of what I read there:

1) WD10EACS-32ZJB0 is a drive sold in a retail box.
2) WD10EACS-00ZJB0 is a drive sold for OEM use (no box, just a mylar bag).
3) Western Digital claims these two drives are identical other than how they are labeled and sold.
4) Users have reported the same firmware being available on both drives.
5) WD10EACS-32ZJB0 works fine as an upgrade inside a TiVo S3 while WD10EACS-00ZJB0 works, but cannot be rebooted by software. Only a power down will restart it, making software updates problematic.
6) Both of these drives work fine inside a TiVo-HD unit.

Does anyone have any further information, as 3) and 5) above seem to be conflicting?

Maybe this will help clarify some things for the HDD replacement group:

3 platters:
WD10EACS-65D6B0
-00D6B0
-00D6B1

4 platters:
WD10EACS-00ZJB0
-32ZJB0
-00C7B0

Was the original DTVDRV 250GB drive perhaps a three platter design?
-----

As for Drive letters:

"The first two digits in the six digit suffix do not mean anything about the hardware. They are simply a distribution code.

To be more specific:

Customer ID
00 - Generic
10 - DEC
11 - WD Protégé OEM
12 - Intel
18 - Dell
23 - IBM
25 - Toshiba
28 - Microsoft
32 - Reseller
35 - WD Spartan
40 - Apple
44 - WD Protégé Other
60 - Compaq
80 - Motorola
90 - Distribution Only
95 - Tektronix
99 - Boeing"

has anyone got the DVR to work with a Harmony remote? I am close to pulling the trigger on this purchase, I would like it to work with my Harmony 880 remote.

So will TVGOS be available eventually to all markets for our Pal DVR or is it just luck of the draw to be in a market that supplies it?
TVGOS is said to already be available to 90% or more of the population, so that relatively few are supposed to be without it...

Thanks, very nice.

No problem.

I had the in-laws disable the Update setting tonight. We'll see if this fixes it. They don't get TVGOS now though. I told them to swing their antenna over to Madison, WI tonight too, and see if they get that TVGOS guide info. I didn't have them change their Zip though, so we shall see about that as well.

I'm pretty sure you need to enter the correct zip code for your location...or at least the zip code for the location of the CBS station you want to get the TVGOS from.

Good thought, I had tried that already but, no result. Will try again tomorrow.

Try the reverse sequence (DVR on 1st, then the router) as some network devices will be able to acquire the address this way rather than the normal way.

I've had problems with mine locking up while watching it. Could someone please explain what happens if I disable the menu>setup>updates (i.e. no more guide data, only 24 hrs, etc.)? Thanks.

If you are getting TVGOS from you CBS station (you will see a red TV Guide logo in the upper right hand corner of the guide screen if you ARE getting it) this procedure can be used to stop the DVR from attempting to download the PSIP guide.
If you are not getting a TVGOS guide then this would, I assume, give you a box with NO guide at all.

Was the original DTVDRV 250GB drive perhaps a three platter design?Thanks, good info!

According to this link (http://www.impactcomputers.com/wd2500aajs.html), the WD2500AAJS is a 3-platter design.

It's an interesting theory, but I have trouble imagining that the physical configuration of the drive has any relevance in today's world of computers, given that drive characteristics are all hidden from the interface via a layer that translates drive parameters to a set of virtual parameters. On the other hand, no one seems to understand why there can be a difference between -00 and -32 drives containing the same firmware, though the TiVo 3 seems to care. Perhaps there is some drive setting that is stored on the platter that matters?

I will be testing my 1 TB drive and a couple of 2.5" drives this afternoon and will report what I find.

Thanks again!

Reg

has anyone got the DVR to work with a Harmony remote? I am close to pulling the trigger on this purchase, I would like it to work with my Harmony 880 remote.

Yes, I have the Harmony One and it works seamlessly. I'm fairly sure our programming software is the same. Enter the remote in as a PVR > Dish Network > DTVPal DVR. While this isn't a remote in the database (at least it wasn't when I programmed mine), it will ask to learn a few commands, at which point it will say that the remote is just like the VIP 622. The only edits I had to make at that point were to manually learn the power button (the burst is too short, as mentioned upthread) and to change the Inter-key delay to 100 ms. Good luck!

I have a question of my own. Am I able to record a program from when I started watching it, not when I press record? Here's an example scenario. Say I started watching Conan O'Brien from the beginning. 20 min. in, I realized that the opening segment is funny and I want to record the entire show (i.e. 20 min. into the past to the end of the program). Is this possible? The data exists because the first 20 min. is buffered for pause / rewind. However in practice, pressing record seems to start recording from the moment I press record (20 min. in) and then loses the data from the past.

This is possible on some other DVRs (e.g. ATT Uverse). Is this a feature on other Dish DVRs?

Thanks!

If you are getting TVGOS from you CBS station (you will see a red TV Guide logo in the upper right hand corner of the guide screen if you ARE getting it) this procedure can be used to stop the DVR from attempting to download the PSIP guide.
If you are not getting a TVGOS guide then this would, I assume, give you a box with NO guide at all.

WRONG.....

If you disable updates the unit simply will not do a reboot at the "update time".

It has no effect on the guide, mine has had updates disabled since day 2 of having it.

I have a question of my own. Am I able to record a program from when I started watching it, not when I press record? Here's an example scenario. Say I started watching Conan O'Brien from the beginning. 20 min. in, I realized that the opening segment is funny and I want to record the entire show (i.e. 20 min. into the past to the end of the program). Is this possible? The data exists because the first 20 min. is buffered for pause / rewind. However in practice, pressing record seems to start recording from the moment I press record (20 min. in) and then loses the data from the past.

This is possible on some other DVRs (e.g. ATT Uverse). Is this a feature on other Dish DVRs?

Thanks!
Yes, simply rewind back to the begining of the program and then start your recording.

Hmmm I tried rewinding to the beginning and hitting record, but the recording started at that time on Live TV and not from the point I rewinded to. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Thanks.

BTW I've lurked around these two threads since CES 2008, and it feels good to be able to contribute finally. This is all in all a great little machine.

QAM without CableCARD will be too limited in utility for some people. For some insight into what a box that provides QAM with CableCARD capability would cost, take a look at the new Moxi ($800).

Many cable companies are locking down clear QAM anyways. In our market only the local channels are clear, everything else is scrambled.

Say I started watching Conan O'Brien from the beginning. 20 min. in, I realized that the opening segment is funny...That would be highly unlikely - unless you're considering what he himself thinks. ;):)

Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that feature:(
Also some older DVDRs have component inputs, does anyone know if they would accept 480p for offloading the Pal?

Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that featureEvery CRT I've seen with component inputs had the option for progressive scan (480p). Otherwise, why would they even bother with component input.

Thanks...yep..no Dish fanboy here.
And I think that disabling the guide download will help those with that problem...besides I see no reason to have it happen if you are getting TVGOS guide as it is far superior to the alternative.

I guess I missed something. :confused::confused:

How many guides are there ..... TVGOS, PSIP, XXXX?
I didn't know there was a downloaded guide; Am I reading this correctly?
And what is the difference between the three? I know about the first two, but not the third ("downloaded" guide).

Sorry for the confusion,

I guess I missed something. :confused::confused:

How many guides are there ..... TVGOS, PSIP, XXXX?
I didn't know there was a downloaded guide; Am I reading this correctly?
And what is the difference between the three? I know about the first two, but not the third ("downloaded" guide).There are just two: PSIP and TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS).

PSIP refers to the program information offered by each individual station; this is generally more limited, 24-72 hours.

TVGOS refers to program information made available for download over-the-air. This includes the current days listings, plus seven additional days of listings. TVGOS program information is distributed by CBS affiliates around the country, using a small portion of their available bandwidth.

I've seen the program guide associated with PSIP referred to, pretty consistently, as EPG. Is that distinction (EPG versus PSIP) not typical? I had gotten the impression that PSIP, specifically, referred to channel mapping, time synchronization, etc., but the program guide data was this related extension... :confused:

WRONG.....

If you disable updates the unit simply will not do a reboot at the "update time".

It has no effect on the guide, mine has had updates disabled since day 2 of having it.


If you are not getting a TVGOS guide then this would, I assume, give you a box with NO guide at all.


If this is what you are referring to as WRONG then thanks for the correction.


If you are getting TVGOS from you CBS station (you will see a red TV Guide logo in the upper right hand corner of the guide screen if you ARE getting it) this procedure can be used to stop the DVR from attempting to download the PSIP guide.


If this is what you are refering to then maybe I should have said it would stop the DVR from attempting to download the PSIP guide at that given time.

Keeping in mind that any "all sales are final" condition does not apply if the merchandise is defective. Unless the sale is specified to be "as is", which this one clearly is not.

This sales disclosure refers to both the DTVPal and the DTVPal DVR in various spots. But line item "4." only mentions the DTVPal.....Maybe I'm reading something positive into this. :rolleyes:

Every CRT I've seen with component inputs had the option for progressive scan (480p). Otherwise, why would they even bother with component input.

Some sets only support 480i over component, mostly older CRT sets. I've not seen any sets support 480p that won't also support 1080i. The cool thing is now that "flat panel fever" has set in you can pick up HD/HD ready CRT sets for under $200 on Craigslist.

I guess I missed something. :confused::confused:

How many guides are there ..... TVGOS, PSIP, XXXX?
I didn't know there was a downloaded guide; Am I reading this correctly?
And what is the difference between the three? I know about the first two, but not the third ("downloaded" guide).

Sorry for the confusion,

Yeah, what bfdtv said here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15415623#post15415623)

Every CRT I've seen with component inputs had the option for progressive scan (480p). Otherwise, why would they even bother with component input.

Some sets only support 480i over component, mostly older CRT sets. I've not seen any sets support 480p that won't also support 1080i. The cool thing is now that "flat panel fever" has set in you can pick up HD/HD ready CRT sets for under $200 on Craigslist.
That's why I said the set was SD and not HD. The set is maybe 7? years old, it's a 32" RCA CRT with every input but HDMI/DVI. It also has analog TVGOS although I suppose one would be using the digital TVGOS in the Pal instead of the TV after 2/09. The owner can't find the manual and has never tried progressive ouputs.
What about DVDRs with component inputs, would they accept the 480p outputted by the Pal? All other devices I have seen output 480i as well as 480p over component, I wonder why the Pal has omitted that...

There are just two: PSIP and TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS).

PSIP refers to the program information offered by each individual station; this is generally more limited, 24-72 hours.

TVGOS refers to program information made available for download over-the-air. This includes the current days listings, plus seven additional days of listings. TVGOS program information is distributed by CBS affiliates around the country, using a small portion of their available bandwidth.

OK, so by disabling the guide update...do I still have a TVGOS guide? I've read here others say they do.
I other words; What am I disabling by disabling? :)

Perhaps:
Does the disable have only to do with the firmware update?

Sorry for being such a block-head.

If this is what you are referring to as WRONG then thanks for the correction.



If this is what you are refering to then maybe I should have said it would stop the DVR from attempting to download the PSIP guide at that given time.

Both,
the update time has nothing to do with the downloading of any guide data, PSIP or TVGOS, it simply is a setting to determine a time for the DTVpal DVR to do a reboot. (might be other (unknown to me) functions also but guide data is not one of them)

That's why I said the set was SD and not HD. The set is maybe 7? years old, it's a 32" RCA CRT with every input but HDMI/DVI. It also has analog TVGOS although I suppose one would be using the digital TVGOS in the Pal instead of the TV after 2/09. The owner can't find the manual and has never tried progressive ouputs.
What about DVDRs with component inputs, would they accept the 480p outputted by the Pal? All other devices I have seen output 480i as well as 480p over component, I wonder why the Pal has omitted that...

Your RCA sounds like the one I recently sold then and it didn't support 480p over component. FWIW I only got $85 on CL for it even though it was only 6yrs old with a great picture. CRT sets simply don't sell for much, bad if you are selling one, good if you are buying.

I've seen the program guide associated with PSIP referred to, pretty consistently, as EPG. Is that distinction (EPG versus PSIP) not typical? I had gotten the impression that PSIP, specifically, referred to channel mapping, time synchronization, etc., but the program guide data was this related extension... :confused:Right. Program information is just one part of PSIP, but it's also the one most relevant to this discussion (information in the program guide).

...The data exists because the first 20 min. is buffered for pause / rewind...

The data only exist from the moment you press pause and possibly the ten second rewind. It does not exist from the beginning of the show. edit: When watching Live TV. If you are playing back a recording that's completely different, but that's not what you were asking.

I've seen the program guide associated with PSIP referred to, pretty consistently, as EPG. Is that distinction (EPG versus PSIP) not typical? I had gotten the impression that PSIP, specifically, referred to channel mapping, time synchronization, etc., but the program guide data was this related extension... :confused:

EPG is the program guide user interface. PSIP or TVGOS are two different methods of delivering the data that an EPG displays.

Ah interesting... to TVGOS complies with the same program guide interface as PSIP... thanks, that clears things up for me.

1) Anyone have any clue what pages 33-40 are intended to accomplish?

2) Does the DTVPal DVR get digital TVGOS natively or not ?? (I just had a frustrating chat session with DISH Support who claim TVGOS is not supported natively, but rather provided by some outside device via G-Link).

3) Is it possible the EPG is provided any of three ways:
3.a) digital PSIP, native to DTVPal DVR
3.b) digital TVGOS, native to DTVPal DVR
3.c) analog TVGOS, via G-Link

Every CRT I've seen with component inputs had the option for progressive scan (480p). Otherwise, why would they even bother with component input.Not my cheapo cheapo Walmart Sanyo.

OK, so by disabling the guide update...do I still have a TVGOS guide? I've read here others say they do.
I other words; What am I disabling by disabling? :)

Perhaps:
Does the disable have only to do with the firmware update?

Sorry for being such a block-head.

My box has had this option set to disable since day one and I have a full 7 day TVGOS guide.

Both,
the update time has nothing to do with the downloading of any guide data, PSIP or TVGOS, it simply is a setting to determine a time for the DTVpal DVR to do a reboot. (might be other (unknown to me) functions also but guide data is not one of them)

I'm not sure you are correct if we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about MENU>SETUP(3)>UPDATES(7). The HELP screen in this option on my box clearly states that this allows you to "Choose a daily time to download the Program Guide infromation." And since, as I have said, I have a full 7 days of TVGOS guide data with this set to disable this obviously refers to the PSIP guide data.
There is no reason to believe this is a command for the box to reboot...it has just been suggested that the setting might have something to do with the reboots people are seeing. I have seen no hangs or reboots at all.
BTY...firmware update options are at MENU>SETUP(3)>BROADBAND(6)>SOFTWARE UPDATES(2).

Not my cheapo cheapo Walmart Sanyo.
Nor the one I inherited from my brother. No progressive at all, even though it's a HDTV (1080i) (also a Wal*Mart Sanyo cheapo). :)

1) Anyone have any clue what pages 33-40 are intended to accomplish?

2) Does the DTVPal DVR get digital TVGOS natively or not ?? (I just had a frustrating chat session with DISH Support who claim TVGOS is not supported natively, but rather provided by some outside device via G-Link).

3) Is it possible the EPG is provided any of three ways:
3.a) digital PSIP, native to DTVPal DVR
3.b) digital TVGOS, native to DTVPal DVR
3.c) analog TVGOS, via G-Link

3 - a is true, B is true, and C is used only when you have an analog TVGOS device and you're using the DVR as the Digital TVGOS to Analog TVGOS translator.

Given that this is a DVR - why would you be interested in option C ?

1) Anyone have any clue what pages 33-40 are intended to accomplish?

2) Does the DTVPal DVR get digital TVGOS natively or not ?? (I just had a frustrating chat session with DISH Support who claim TVGOS is not supported natively, but rather provided by some outside device via G-Link).

3) Is it possible the EPG is provided any of three ways:
3.a) digital PSIP, native to DTVPal DVR
3.b) digital TVGOS, native to DTVPal DVR
3.c) analog TVGOS, via G-Link

Those pages refer to seting up the DVR as a front end to another device that is TVGOS enabled. If you are not doing that then ignore this section.
See this too. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15410110&postcount=617) And Scoopers post above.

I just unpacked mine and hooked it up to discover my hard drive is apparently DOA (see images). I tried unlpugging it as directed and also tried formatting it from the diagnostics>hdd menu but that didn't change anything. Everything else functions fine except that the DVR menu section is grayed out and I obviously can't pause or record anything. This happen to anyone else?

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1408/dtvpaldvrfail2bs7.jpg

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9421/dtvpaldvrfailgr7.jpg

Nor the one I inherited from my brother. No progressive at all, even though it's a HDTV (1080i) (also a Wal*Mart Sanyo cheapo). :)

Nor my expensive 8-year old, since replaced when it went bad, Sony 53XBR200 (SD only) and it even upconverted everything to 960i, but would only except 480i on the component input. I had a DVDR that has 480p output option, and it didn't work with the Sony in that mode.

3 - a is true, B is true, and C is used only when you have an analog TVGOS device and you're using the DVR as the Digital TVGOS to Analog TVGOS translator.

Given that this is a DVR - why would you be interested in option C ?

I actually have no interest in 3.c, but am puzzled / frustrated by:

4) Not being able to get 3.b to work in the STL area after having confirmed from KMOV the local CBS affiliate that digital TVGOS is available, having used a couple local Zips, and shut off the DVR overnight.

5) Lack of competence on DISH' support side to know that 3.b is part of the product (it is a new product, but you would think they'd have some training or "go to" person who would know the answers)

so it goes ...

I just unpacked mine and hooked it up to discover my hard drive is apparently DOA (see images). I tried unlpugging it as directed and also tried formatting it from the diagnostics>hdd menu but that didn't change anything. Everything else functions fine except that the DVR menu section is grayed out and I obviously can't pause or record anything. This happen to anyone else?

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1408/dtvpaldvrfail2bs7.jpg

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9421/dtvpaldvrfailgr7.jpg

I got these when I tried to replace my original drive with a Seagate Barracuda 750 GB. Error went away when I put the original drive back in. Subsequent testing with the Barracuda indicates that it is DOA.

I actually have no interest in 3.c, but am puzzled / frustrated by:

4) Not being able to get 3.b to work in the STL area after having confirmed from KMOV the local CBS affiliate that digital TVGOS is available, having used a couple local Zips, and shut off the DVR overnight.

5) Lack of competence on DISH' support side to know that 3.b is part of the product (it is a new product, but you would think they'd have some training or "go to" person who would know the answers)

so it goes ...

Welcome to the wonderful world of Dish Network Support. :D

I got these when I tried to replace my original drive with a Seagate Barracuda 750 GB. Error went away when I put the original drive back in. Subsequent testing with the Barracuda indicates that it is DOA.REALLY?! Any chance it was killed by the DTVPal DVR? (I'm about to test a few drives in this thing...)

REALLY?! Any chance it was killed by the DTVPal DVR? (I'm about to test a few drives in this thing...)

I suppose it's possible, but not likely, I would think.

REALLY?! Any chance it was killed by the DTVPal DVR? (I'm about to test a few drives in this thing...)I agree with Scooper. This is highly unlikely.

RE: "Would be curious about the PQ if anyone out there is using an analog TV and the composite or coaxial outputs of the DVR..."

I received my unit on Dec. 24th and immediately tested it with an analog TV and OTA reception (antenna in garage rafters). I used the red, yellow, white coaxial cables to connect the DVR to the TV.

The DVR pulled in signals even better than a converter box that I had tried. Only digital stations were received. I was able to record one station and watch another live station at the same time. Or I could record one station and watch a taped program. I ended up ordering a DVR for my mother (who is currently using a converter box with an OTA antenna). She had given up on taping anything after February 17th. This DVR has a very user-friendly software that will be easy for her (and me) to learn to use. The TV Guide came in nicely.

After testing the unit on my analog TV, I moved it to my new HDTV (Samsung A550 LCD) where I have it hooked up with an HDMI cable between my TV and the DVR. I also have a VCR/DVD player hooked up without access to the antenna. I receive my signal OTA with the antenna in the garage rafters.

I split the antenna signal between the wall and the TV and DVR so that each device has a separate signal. It did NOT degrade the signal. It actually improved my ability to watch my TV while recording on the DVR (because I often lost the signal when viewing through the TV tuner when the DVR was recording.) If you do this, make sure to get the widest bandwidth possible in the splitter. I am using a 5 - 2300 MHz, but saw some as low as 10 - 1000 MHz.

I have had no problems with the hard drive whirring (I've never heard it anyway), but the unit does get warm, so make sure to allow airflow around it. The TV Guide initially brought in only a day, then eventually a full 8 days. I have gotten an error message onscreen when it is trying to update while I am using both tuners, but as far as I can tell so far, it has not caused any problems. If I am viewing a pre-recorded show at the time, I just cancel the message.

As set up, I am able to do any of the following:
- record up to two shows simultaneously while watching a third pre-recorded one through the DVR
- watch my TV using my TV tuner, while the DVR is off or recording
up to two programs simultaneously
- watch a VCR tape or DVD through my TV and VCR unit while the DVR is off or recording

I have not yet tried pausing a live show viewed through the DVR (which was not set up for recording). However, I have started watching a program which is currently recording. It is wonderful to be able to delay watching a program, but not have to wait for the whole thing to finish recording before you start watching.

NOTES:
I did have a couple problems when I was first learning how to use the DVR:

You can't record two programs simultaneously AND try to watch one of those programs LIVE through the DVR. You need to either watch through your TV, or wait until the program starts to record, then open it from My Recordings.

Sometimes, I had problems trying to set up two programs at the same time when there did not seem to be a conflict. I read on someone else's posting that the use of the tuners may not be very well programmed in the operating software. It does seem that if you set up the longer program first, then set up the series of shorter programs, that you don't get an error message.

I agree with Scooper. This is highly unlikely.I would say it is more likely than purchasing a new drive that is DOA. The DTVPal DVR is a brand new design while these hard drives are all delta designs based on designs that go back for decades. Some issue with the power supply that causes a fatal spike or some sort glitch in the firmware that renders the drive unusable both seem like real possibilities to me.

Anyone figure out what the gray button on the remote, just above the SAP button is for?
128043

I'm going to sound a little dumb, but how do I get the software updates? I have my DVR connected to my TV, which is no where near my pc and modem.

I believe that I have an ethernet connection on my pc but I am not really that familiar with using it (not sure what it looks like). Someone told me that I must be using it for my DSL internet connection. I have an external modem that plugs into the phone jack and into my pc.....

I understand that the USB port on the DVR is not functional yet. Nor have I seen updates or instructions on the Dish DVRPal website. I am aware of the F202 software upgrade only from reading other postings here.

So:
- What benefits does the F202 software version bring?
- Do I have to unplug my DVR and somehow connect it to my pc?
- Where do I look for the updates? How do I download them into the DVR? (detailed instructions, please)
- Do I need to turn on my DVR while downloading the software? Does my DVR need to be connected to my modem or anything while updating it? Otherwise, how can I see any DVR instructions?

I am leary of messing with anything unless I know exactly what I am doing. Is this upgrade important, or can I wait until Dish puts instructions and links to the downloads on their website?

Thanks for your help! Please be specific.

This sales disclosure refers to both the DTVPal and the DTVPal DVR in various spots. But line item "4." only mentions the DTVPal.....Maybe I'm reading something positive into this. :rolleyes:

I think Dish reps are confused. The original intent of no rufund was an all of the regular converter boxes that people used the government rebate cards to purchase. This policy was to perevent people from buy a converter and then returning it and getting a full price refund there by make $40 profit. This policy doesnot not apply to the DVR since it doesn't qualifiy for the government rebate cards. This is mentioned on the web site.

Thanks for your help! Please be specific.These questions are all answered in the FAQ in the first post.

To summarize, you can only update via ethernet at this time. In the future, you will be able to download the update to a USB flashdrive with your computer, and then connect that flashdrive to your DTVPal DVR to perform the update.

Ethernet is the port that looks like a large telephone jack. You can see a picture at the bottom of the first post. This would connect to a port on your ethernet router (assuming you have one). If you are one of the few without a router, then you could connect directly to the ethernet port on your cable modem. Once you are connected via ethernet, you would select Setup -> Broadband -> Software Update from the DTVPal DVR's menu.

The update addresses some known issues. More specific information is not available.

Anyone figure out what the gray button on the remote, just above the SAP button is for?
128043

On the Dish VIP 722 remote it for dish interactive tv features, so it may be just cosmetic. I have not tried it.

Today I replaced the component cable that I original used since I was waiting for my brother in law to bring a HDMI cable. After I replaced the cable I turned on the TV and then the DVR. The DVR would not power up. Checked connections then unplgud DVR. It powered up got the logo and then shut off and would not power up. I then turned off the TV and the DVR powered up and then I turned on the TV. Everything is working OK now.

Anyone figure out what the gray button on the remote, just above the SAP button is for?
128043

Don't know for the PalDVR, but on regular Dish satellite receiver remotes, that button is labelled "Dish" and is used to access Dish Home Interactive TV. Probably used their generic remote and disabled that button for the PalDVR. Of course dish may say that it is for "future use" like everything else.

The data only exist from the moment you press pause and possibly the ten second rewind. It does not exist from the beginning of the show. edit: When watching Live TV. If you are playing back a recording that's completely different, but that's not what you were asking.

I'm not sure if that's true. When you rewind a live program, you can go as far back as when you last changed the channel (up to 1 h). In my original example, that was the beginning of the program. Tried it again this afternoon by watching the Simpsons from the beginning (not changing the channel) and after the first commercial break, rewound until the beginning and hit record. From here I was able to FF / RW up to the live feed. However when I went to My Recordings and played what I was currently recording, a) it started after the first commercial break and b) it deleted my buffer on the live feed.

If this isn't currently possible, perhaps it can be addressed in a future firmware update?

According with http://www.rabbitears.info TVGOS is not available in Lincoln. The closest source of digital TVGOS (according to this source) is CBS out of Sioux City Iowa, which is to far away to get it. I e-mailed both CBS affiliates in area (Lincoln/Omaha), but never received any response from them.
Are you sure there is TVGOS logo in the programming guide, and you have info for 7 days? Lack of the TVGOS in the area is the only reason why I have not order DTVPAL Dvr yet.

I am positive that I had a TVGuide logo on my screen because it looked out of place. I have not seen it again though, but I have not been looking too hard.

Today I replaced the component cable that I original used since I was waiting for my brother in law to bring a HDMI cable. After I replaced the cable I turned on the TV and then the DVR. The DVR would not power up. Checked connections then unplgud DVR. It powered up got the logo and then shut off and would not power up. I then turned off the TV and the DVR powered up and then I turned on the TV. Everything is working OK now.

Sounds like an HDMI handshake issue. Always power on in this order or you may experience the problem again....isn't HDCP wonderful.....they want to make sure you don't hook it up to a monitor that doesn't support their fancy copy protection via HDMI

Sounds like an HDMI handshake issue. Always power on in this order or you may experience the problem again....isn't HDCP wonderful.....they want to make sure you don't hook it up to a monitor that doesn't support their fancy copy protection via HDMI

It doesn't matter now which way I turn on or off now. (should have mentioned that) The really odd thing was that the DVR would not even turn on.

I just unpacked mine and hooked it up to discover my hard drive is apparently DOA (see images). I tried unlpugging it as directed and also tried formatting it from the diagnostics>hdd menu but that didn't change anything. Everything else functions fine except that the DVR menu section is grayed out and I obviously can't pause or record anything. This happen to anyone else?

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1408/dtvpaldvrfail2bs7.jpg

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9421/dtvpaldvrfailgr7.jpg

A couple of things to try. If you have already removed the drive, connect it to a PC and run a diagnostics from WD on it. If it is in fact bad, you may be better off either:

Buying an identical drive and replacing this one

or

Contacting WD with the SN and model and having them ship you a new one.

It sounds like returning this to Dish and getting a new one may take longer than one of the above options.

If you think the entire unit is bad, I would send it back to dish.

FWIW I'm starting to see more and more OTA users that have just had enough of pay TV increasing their rates. Perhaps this will bring some competition to the DTVpal DVR and increase quality/lower price.

wondering would this work with the dtvpal dvr, Linksys WUSB54GC USB 2.0 Wireless Adapter. Would make updating and internet access easy

wondering would this work with the dtvpal dvr, Linksys WUSB54GC USB 2.0 Wireless Adapter. Would make updating and internet access easyThe DTVPal DVR will not work with any USB wireless adapters.

It will work with a ethernet -> 802.11g wireless bridge. These are often sold as gaming adapters for use with the Xbox360. That said, you might want to be careful about updating the firmware over wireless; if your wireless signal was interrupted during an update, there's no telling what would happen to your DVR.

Some sets only support 480i over component, mostly older CRT sets. I've not seen any sets support 480p that won't also support 1080i. Well I've got a couple. A Panasonic and a Sony both about 5 yrs old. Analog tuners and not HD by any stretch of the imagination. Both support 480p over component -- remember before upconversion, progressive scan DVD players were all the rage.

I just received my wireless bridge today and had no problems obtaining an IP address with the DTVPal DVR. I have yet to download the firmware though. I think I will wait till I get some clarification as to what the latest version fixes first. Here is a link (http://www.blackfridaydailydeals.com/2008/12/zonet-zew3001/) to the unit I bought for $19.99 if anyone is interested.

The DTVPal DVR will not work with any USB wireless adapters.

It will work with a ethernet -> 802.11g wireless bridge. These are often sold as gaming adapters for use with the Xbox360. That said, you might want to be careful about updating the firmware over wireless; if your wireless signal was interrupted during an update, there's no telling what would happen to your DVR.

bfdtv,

On a firmware update I would think the unit would download the whole update, run a crc check on it to verify it was downloaded properly, instead of doing a update "on-the-fly", wireless network or not.


Q: Has anyone plugged a USB stick into the USB port, and then told the unit to do a firmware update?

I ask because I'm wondering if the unit backs up a copy of the existing firmware- before doing a update.

(Yes I know a usb firmware update download is not available as of 12-30-2008 - and the update the firmware via the USB option may be "greyed-out" unless the unit "sees" a firmware flash file on the USB stick.)


.

On a firmware update I would think the unit would download the whole update, run a crc check on it to verify it was downloaded properly, instead of doing a update "on-the-fly", wireless network or not.

I would agree as using wireless to update the firmware is really no different than downloading a firmware via a Dish Network satellite signal. There is always a chance of interruption or signal loss. Being that the software in the DTVPal is the same or similar as what comes with a Dish Network DVR, I would think it functions in a similar manner.

bfdtv,

On a firmware update I would think the unit would download the whole update, run a crc check on it to verify it was downloaded properly, instead of doing a update "on-the-fly", wireless network or not.


Q: Has anyone plugged a USB stick into the USB port, and then told the unit to do a firmware update?

I ask because I'm wondering if the unit backs up a copy of the existing firmware- before doing a update.

(Yes I know a usb firmware update download is not available as of 12-30-2008 - and the update the firmware via the USB option may be "greyed-out" unless the unit "sees" a firmware flash file on the USB stick.)


.

It was done during beta tests (s/w updates using USB)

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

Is it perfect ? - no. But it should serve most people pretty well as a VCR / timeshifting replacement. The tuners are pretty decent. Watching a recording is like watching it live - because this just records the bitstream. It does HDTV, yet you can also work it with your old analog TV and not lose any functionality - I think it works pretty decently as a more capable CECB.

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

It is well worth my $250 considering I have no cable or satellite and receive only OTA. Other things to keep in mind:

No other DVR on the market except the Philips and Tivo. I like Tivo but the price is not cost effective and the Philips is just junk in my opinion.

No monthly DVR fees with this unit (at least not yet)

"Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that feature.

Also some older DVDRs have component inputs, does anyone know if they would accept 480p for offloading the Pal?"


It looks like the first question has not yet been answered. I assume from reading the manual that if you selected SD, you ONLY have the choice of 480i output, yet since all outputs are active at the same time, it seems reasonable that the 480i output is available from the component output.

Is there anyone out there using component cable input to SD 480i TV that can confirm this? I have ordered two DTVPal DVRs based upon my understanding from the manual, so a confirmation of component 480i output is needed.

Donald1800

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.
Personally, I would have paid more if I'd had to.
I think it's a great machine for the price even if they discontinue the $50 discount.

But it's closer to $275 with tax and shipping :)

I doubt it would work yet since it still doesn't work with the non-DVR 'pal, but has anyone tried to use this DVR to feed an analog TVGOS device (like an E85)?

This would be "option C" that no one could imagine needing since you have a 'pal DVR. How about if you wanted to record something on your old analog E85 DVR so you could edit it on the hard drive and then burn it to a DVD, neither of which can be done with the 'pal DVR, without having to do a real-time re-recording over composite cables to get it on the E85. Or, maybe you just want the 'pal DVR to give your old analog TVGOS device the time once in a while so it can still be used with a different external tuner to record three things at once (two on the 'pal plus one onto the E85). Or, maybe you like the E85's TVGOS menu system better than the 'pal's, and find it easier to find repeat info, categorized shows, alphabetical listings, etc., using the old TVGOS EPG.

Also some older DVDRs have component inputs, does anyone know if they would accept 480p for offloading the Pal?"


It looks like the first question has not yet been answered. I assume from reading the manual that if you selected SD, you ONLY have the choice of 480i output, yet since all outputs are active at the same time, it seems reasonable that the 480i output is available from the component output.

Is there anyone out there using component cable input to SD 480i TV that can confirm this? I have ordered two DTVPal DVRs based upon my understanding from the manual, so a confirmation of component 480i output is needed.

Donald1800

The settings for the component / HDMI outputs are independent of the setting for the composite / RF outputs. You can have the HD settings set to 16:9 TV at 720p or 1080i and at the sametime, the composite will come out as 480i. There is NO setting for 480i for the HD outputs (component and HDMI). You can even set your 480i output to 16:9 as well as 4:3 (haven't looked at this yet - but the option is there).

If the better quality of SVideo is worth it to you - www.svideo.com does have some component to svideo convertors available. YMMV. Haven't tried them myself. I use HDMI to my HDTV and the composite goes to a whole house modulating system (TOSLINK to TV input on A/V receiver). I have used the component outputs, but it's easier to tell the wife to just use HDMI for the HD DVR.

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

I would say it is a piece of junk if they don't update the constant shut downs/restarts. That being said I do expect they will fix this with an update. I wish they would have used better Beta testers.

Posters interested in the TVGOS function may want to look at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093923

Subject: the M8B by moderator KenH

Those of us with the Sony HDD250/500 feel fairly certain our HD DVR's will continue to function after the DTV changeover date based on Ken's report


BTW The Sony will record an entire episode from the beginning as long as it is in the buffer when the record command is given. Moreover the buffer length is user selectable from 15 min to 2 hours.

If the DTVPal DVR will not do this, it is a fairly serious shortcoming IMHO. While I am interested in this unit, it seems prudent to hold off untill this feature is deemed to be present or added. Obviously with a working Sony there is no urgency in my case.

BTW 2: The TVGOS on the Sony will show a red R in the record icon if the show is set to repeat.

And for those interested in PSIP there is now a WIKI on this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_and_System_Information_Protocol

But it's closer to $275 with tax and shipping :)

I doubt it would work yet since it still doesn't work with the non-DVR 'pal, but has anyone tried to use this DVR to feed an analog TVGOS device (like an E85)?

This would be "option C" that no one could imagine needing since you have a 'pal DVR. How about if you wanted to record something on your old analog E85 DVR so you could edit it on the hard drive and then burn it to a DVD, neither of which can be done with the 'pal DVR, without having to do a real-time re-recording over composite cables to get it on the E85. Or, maybe you just want the 'pal DVR to give your old analog TVGOS device the time once in a while so it can still be used with a different external tuner to record three things at once (two on the 'pal plus one onto the E85). Or, maybe you like the E85's TVGOS menu system better than the 'pal's, and find it easier to find repeat info, categorized shows, alphabetical listings, etc., using the old TVGOS EPG.

Tried with no success. Sent an email to Ce_customer_support@tvguide.com but don't have an answer yet. Like many have said this probably does not have much utility but it is a challenge. Panasonic is not listed on the TVGuide support site.

I've run tests with a few different hard disks. I have observed operation and measured power consumption and the voltage regulation of the 5V and 12V supplies. Voltages were measured using a Fluke 77 Multimeter at the power supply board connector from the yellow (12V) or red (5V) wire to the adjacent black wire. Power is measured using the Brand Electronics 20-1850 Power Meter (http://www.brandelectronics.com/meters.html). Here are my results:

Included hard disk (250 GB 3.5"):
I did not remove it to check the part number.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 12.45V Power (Off): 21W Power (On): 23W
No problems with operation noted so far.

Western Digital WD10EACS-00ZJB0 (1 TB 3.5"):
This drive was pulled directly from a RAID 1 array and inserted into the DTVPal DVR as is.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 12.35V Power (Off): 19W Power (On): 21W
This drive does NOT work with the DTVPal DVR. Unit reported problems with the hard drive. I attempted to format the drive, but the unit simply shut down and then reported that the drive was not working when it restarted.

Seagate ST9500325AS (500 GB 2.5"):
This drive was pulled from an external USB enclosure. It was formatted NTFS with compression turned on.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 13.95V Power (Off): 17W Power (On): 19W
This drive WORKED in the DTVPal DVR. However, the picture frequently broke up when this drive was being used. I suspect with the 12V output of the power supply unloaded (and hence unregulated) the operating mode of the switching power supply may have changed, leading to much worse EMI. Another possibility is that the 5V supply may not have become unstable (or possibly contained much more ripple) when the 12V supply was unloaded. The bottom line is that the unit became quite unusable even though the drive worked properly. Interestingly, even though information was recorded onto this drive, it was not obvious this was the case when it was later read using a Windows computer. No new data was found and no former data was obviously lost. (I won't trust the data on the disk, however.)

Western Digital WD2500BEVS-60UST0 (250GB 2.5")
This drive was previously the internal drive within a Windows Vista Ultimate tablet computer. It was working fine when removed.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 13.99V Power (Off): 17W Power (On): 19W
This drive does NOT work with the DTVPal DVR. Unit reported problems with the hard drive. I attempted to format the drive, but the unit simply shut down and then reported that the drive was not working when it restarted.

Toshiba MK1246GSX (120GB 2.5")
This drive was previously the internal drive in an Ubuntu laptop. It was formatted with several partitions including file formats such as ext3 and swap.

5V: 5.15V 12V: 14.00V Power (Off): 16W Power (On): 18W
This drive WORKED in the DTVPal DVR. I was in a hurry, so I did not observe whether the same tuner problems I saw with the Seagate drive existed. I suspect they did.

Conclusions:

1) While some 2.5" drives appear to work in the DTVPal DVR, it appears the the power supply does not like having its 12V output unloaded. Somehow this results in frequent breakups in the picture.

2) The 2.5" drives save approximately 4W over the stock drive.

3) The only 3.5" drive I have on hand does not seem to work in this unit.

4) The low-power 1 TB WD drive saved only about 2W of power in the unit, which is less than I had predicted based on specifications. While the added space would have been nice had it worked, the overall power savings is less than 10%.

Thoughts:

5) I'm wondering what factors determine whether a drive can be used or not. Is it the characteristics of the drive or the type of partitioning pre-existing or something else?

6) I'll probably stick with what's in there for now, as I'm new to the DVR world and I don't know if I'll use more than 250 GB or not.

I'll keep the unit open for a couple of days while I'm still on vacation. If anyone would like me to conduct further tests, please let me know.

Thoughts?

Reg

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.

It is a very reasonable price considering what I paid for my single tuner Sony Hi Def HDD DVRS a few years ago. I have a 250 Gig and a 500 Gig which I believe retailed for around $800 though I got it on eBay for around $500.

I have only been using it for 24 hrs but everything seems to be working fine.

Sometimes, I had problems trying to set up two programs at the same time when there did not seem to be a conflict. I read on someone else's posting that the use of the tuners may not be very well programmed in the operating software. It does seem that if you set up the longer program first, then set up the series of shorter programs, that you don't get an error message.

The real issue is if you program 2 back to back events, it will set them to use different tuners. So trying to then program an overlapping event gets the error message since neither tuner is free.

I had the issue again today, so I took the chance to play with it a bit. As mentioned, programming the longer event first works. What also works is programming overlapping events first and then the back to back event.

For example, event A is 8:00 to 9:00, B is 8:00 to 8:30 and C is 8:30 to 9:00. You can program in the following orders ABC, ACB, BAC, and CAB. But you can't do the orders BCA or CBA because B and C will be programmed for different tuners thus not allowing A because it conflicts with both B and C.

- - - -

I ran into several other problems with setting events (I suspect there are quite of few bugs in setting events). I have 2 NBC channels, one has TVGOS data, the other doesn't. The one that doesn't has the stronger signal, so I prefer to use that one. When setting an event from the guide, I pick the show from the guide on the weaker NBC, then when the programming screen comes up, I switch it to the stronger NBC and set the event. This generally works.

However, today I was trying to set for the Rose Bowl Parade (1/1 11:00am to 1:00pm), and when I tried to do this trick, it gave me an error something like "the event is already recording", which made no sense.

I then tried to set a manual event for this and from the programming screen, it refused to let me set the date to 1/1 (only allowed the month of 12 and days 30 and 31). It also refused to let me change the "pm" to "am". I would set the time to 11:00 and as soon as I tried to change it to "am" it immediately set it to 1:42 (which was the current time) and did not change to "am". Very irritating and I gave up. It did let me program the event for the weaker NBC with no trouble. I'll have to change in Thursday morning. Possible a bug in crossing the year boundary, which will hopefully go away in 2 days (at least until next year if it doesn't get fixed).

Don't know for the PalDVR, but on regular Dish satellite receiver remotes, that button is labelled "Dish" and is used to access Dish Home Interactive TV. Probably used their generic remote and disabled that button for the PalDVR. Of course dish may say that it is for "future use" like everything else.

The button has not been disabled, the DTVPal DVR doesn't do anything when it's pushed. When both my DTVPal DVR and Dish 625 DVR were set to remote address 1, hitting this button made the 625 go to the Dish Home application.

I only hit the button to see what it would do, which was nothing on the Pal. When I switched the TV input to the 625, the Dish Home application was running.

I would say it is a piece of junk if they don't update the constant shut downs/restarts. That being said I do expect they will fix this with an update. I wish they would have used better Beta testers.

I would say they should have used more beta testers, even the best tester can't foresee all the different ways this unit will be used. but if you have a lot of beta testers then you would cover many different user patterns.

I've run tests with a few different hard disks. I have observed operation and measured power consumption and the voltage regulation of the 5V and 12V supplies. Voltages were measured using a Fluke 77 Multimeter at the power supply board connector from the yellow (12V) or red (5V) wire to the adjacent black wire. Power is measured using the Brand Electronics 20-1850 Power Meter (http://www.brandelectronics.com/meters.html). Here are my results:....

Reg

Great work.
With all this good testing going on with this box maybe it is time for a separate DTVPal DVR Hacks 'N Mods thread

Perhaps 7200 vs. 5400 RPM matters? The 2.5" laptop drives tested that kind of worked but had picture breakup were both 5400 RPM. The WD "green" disks aren't 7200 RPM most of the time.

This theory will probably be shot down based on other results, and I don't even believe it would matter, but it's something to ponder.

Have people tried a non-green drive that otherwise works, is 7200 RPM, and is larger than 500GB? The 750GB previously tried was later found to be dead.

has anyone got the DVR to work with a Harmony remote? I am close to pulling the trigger on this purchase, I would like it to work with my Harmony 880 remote.

Works great with my Harmony 1000. I initially had a little trouble with the power on, but lengthened the delay a bit and solved it. You should be good to go.

I guess I'm gonna miss out on the party. I got my DTVPal DVR last week but have decided to try and sell mine on EBay. I was going to also spring for the a Roku box for Netflix streaming, but that additional money puts the DTVPal DVR + Roku close enough for me to justify a Tivo HD + lifetime subscription. You guys are always a wealth of info. It sounds like the DTVPal would have done a fine job for me. Love the apparent easy HD upgrade.

"Is it possible to hook the component outputs to a tube TV that has component inputs?
It looks like when using component output the only choice is 480p and maybe not 480i? I'm pretty sure tube TVs(not HD) are only 480i. I'd hate to step down to composite. The TV also has S-video input but of course they omitted that feature."

The settings for the component / HDMI outputs are independent of the setting for the composite / RF outputs. You can have the HD settings set to 16:9 TV at 720p or 1080i and at the sametime, the composite will come out as 480i. There is NO setting for 480i for the HD outputs (component and HDMI). You can even set your 480i output to 16:9 as well as 4:3 (haven't looked at this yet - but the option is there).

If the better quality of SVideo is worth it to you - www.svideo.com does have some component to svideo convertors available. YMMV. Haven't tried them myself. I use HDMI to my HDTV and the composite goes to a whole house modulating system (TOSLINK to TV input on A/V receiver). I have used the component outputs, but it's easier to tell the wife to just use HDMI for the HD DVR.

Unfortunately your reply added confusion factor instead of clarity, IF I understand you.

I could not locate any reference in the latest user manual that states that the component video output is HD only, and only the ancient composite/RF outputs are SD. Since the component video connection was released prior to HD TV availability and many quality near-HD 480i resolution TVs were released with both component and S-Video inputs, I felt that the DTVPal DVR would fit in with my other component output 480i capable equipment (Sony Blue Ray DVD Player, Xbox, etc.) for my Sony tube TV.

If indeed, the DTVPal DVR only can output HD from the component output (a stupid decision as the component video connection is NOT an HD connection), and my Sony SD TV with component and S-Video inputs can only use 480i - not 480p/720p/1080i video, then this is not compatible. Are you saying that the component output will ONLY output HD outputs? The component to S-Video converter only converts component to S-Video - NOT HD 720p/1080i to 480i, so this is not a solution. A composite/RF connection is out of the question. I will have to cancel my preorders if I can't get component 480i out of the DTVPal DVR component outputs.

Somebody PLEASE clarify this situation.

Donald1800

Somebody PLEASE clarify this situation.Output through HDMI and component is selectable 480p / 720p / 1080i. There is no option for 480i. You select one and all live and recorded content is converted to that resolution for output to display.

These settings do not affect how content is saved to disk, only how it is output to display. If a program is broadcast in 720p, then it will be recorded on the DVR as 720p, regardless of what output option you select.

The DTVPal DVR always downconverts HD channels to SD through composite and coax to support older televisions that lack 480p/720p/1080i capability.

That is unfortunate, and a bad decision by Dish. I will have to call tomorrow and cancel my order. Their documentation sucks being full of confusion factor. It's too bad that it is hardware related and not just a firmware omission that is patchable. I can not continue with either composite or RF re-modulation/ch 3, 4 after using component 480i from other video sources. Dumb!

Donald1800

Donald,
I posted the same question in the other DTV Pal DVR forum, and pabeader, a beta tester, claims it does output 480i over the component outs. Here's his reponse: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15062107&postcount=1621

Any users out there care to give it a try to verify?

I was watching a movie tonight via DVD player. During the movie I noticed that the lights on the front-panel of the PAL changed from just the green light to the green & red lights. Earlier when this happened I had to unplug the unit to get it to reset; it would not respond to the remote.

This time since I was watching the movie, I just ignored the event. Sometime during the movie, the unit returned to just the green light on its own.

txmatt

How much are you going ask for it? there are some of use here that have yet to get one. you could post this on the other thread and sell it today.

Thoughts:

5) I'm wondering what factors determine whether a drive can be used or not. Is it the characteristics of the drive or the type of partitioning pre-existing or something else?


Thanks for such detailed reports! Good to hear another person with success with a 500GB drive.

5) It's definitely not partitioning. I have tried a zeroed-out 500GB and 750GB drive. It never took my 750GB. I even did a dd copy of the 500 into the 750 and then plugged it in. Still no go. I spent about a day looking at its proprietary filesystem but I haven't found any clues as of why 500GB is the largest it would take.


Perhaps 7200 vs. 5400 RPM matters? The 2.5" laptop drives tested that kind of worked but had picture breakup were both 5400 RPM. The WD "green" disks aren't 7200 RPM most of the time.

This theory will probably be shot down based on other results, and I don't even believe it would matter, but it's something to ponder.

Have people tried a non-green drive that otherwise works, is 7200 RPM, and is larger than 500GB? The 750GB previously tried was later found to be dead.

I tried a Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB and the unit didn't take. The drive is still alive.

Perhaps 7200 vs. 5400 RPM matters? The 2.5" laptop drives tested that kind of worked but had picture breakup were both 5400 RPM. The WD "green" disks aren't 7200 RPM most of the time.

This theory will probably be shot down based on other results, and I don't even believe it would matter, but it's something to ponder.

Have people tried a non-green drive that otherwise works, is 7200 RPM, and is larger than 500GB? The 750GB previously tried was later found to be dead.I'd say that's certainly a possibility, since we don't really know what's going on in there. I DID test the 500 GB 2.5" drive by recording two HD streams simultaneously. It seemed to work, other than the breakups. But perhaps it wasn't keeping up.

The only 7200 RPM drive I have is a 100 GB laptop drive. I may give that a try today. Unfortunately, a 7200 RPM laptop drive is not as fast as a 7200 RPM desktop drive in terms of internal data rates, so I'm not sure what this will prove.

Thoughts?

Reg

I just unpacked mine and hooked it up to discover my hard drive is apparently DOA (see images). I tried unlpugging it as directed and also tried formatting it from the diagnostics>hdd menu but that didn't change anything. Everything else functions fine except that the DVR menu section is grayed out and I obviously can't pause or record anything. This happen to anyone else?My guess is that the SATA cable has become unconnected from the hard disk during shipment. That is the thick red cable shown in the center of this photograph (http://deco-00.slide.com/r/1/0/i/UKTnMg9d2z_fFtmoZXdbhozW3jV2lJwq) by bfdtv.

I say this because I noticed in doing my hard disk testing last night that even though this cable has a nice metal lock to hold it into the connector on the hard disk, IT DOES NOT ENGAGE ON THE INCLUDED DRIVE! What's funny is that it locked tightly into every other drive I tested last night.

Finally, I did some testing with my unit to see if I could duplicate your failure. Sure enough, if I disconnect the red cable in my unit and power it on, I get precisely the symptoms you described. Unfortunately, opening the case on this box is not easy, as others have said. If you want to give it a try, the instructions are found in the first post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15369795&postcount=1) of this thread.

Good luck getting this resolved quickly!

Reg

I guess I'm gonna miss out on the party. I got my DTVPal DVR last week but have decided to try and sell mine on EBay. I was going to also spring for the a Roku box for Netflix streaming, but that additional money puts the DTVPal DVR + Roku close enough for me to justify a Tivo HD + lifetime subscription. You guys are always a wealth of info. It sounds like the DTVPal would have done a fine job for me. Love the apparent easy HD upgrade.

Have you considered a HTPC instead? Less $$$ than a TIVO HD + Lifetime and way more functionality.

I was watching a movie tonight via DVD player. During the movie I noticed that the lights on the front-panel of the PAL changed from just the green light to the green & red lights. Earlier when this happened I had to unplug the unit to get it to reset; it would not respond to the remote.

This time since I was watching the movie, I just ignored the event. Sometime during the movie, the unit returned to just the green light on its own.

Did you have a timer set? That is the appearance when a timer is recording, the red light comes on. The green is if you have the unit in the on status.

Did you have a timer set? That is the appearance when a timer is recording, the red light comes on. The green is if you have the unit in the on status.

Nope. I thought that this might have been the issue, but there was nothing set. But even if a show was recording I should have been able to control the unit to watch a second channel.

Nope. I thought that this might have been the issue, but there was nothing set. But even if a show was recording I should have been able to control the unit to watch a second channel.

it was probably doing maintenance

Output through HDMI and component is selectable 480p / 720p / 1080i. There is no option for 480i. You select one and all live and recorded content is converted to that resolution for output to display.

These settings do not affect how content is saved to disk, only how it is output to display. If a program is broadcast in 720p, then it will be recorded on the DVR as 720p, regardless of what output option you select.

The DTVPal DVR always downconverts HD channels to SD through composite and coax to support older televisions that lack 480p/720p/1080i capability.
----------------

I have a question about how the content is saved? If the content is saved according to its broadcast mode, why we can get up to 150 hr in SD and only up to 30 hr in HD?

Can someone explain this?

Thanks,
AV

That is unfortunate, and a bad decision by Dish. I will have to call tomorrow and cancel my order. Their documentation sucks being full of confusion factor. It's too bad that it is hardware related and not just a firmware omission that is patchable. I can not continue with either composite or RF re-modulation/ch 3, 4 after using component 480i from other video sources. Dumb!

Donald1800

It's your decision, but to not even give it a try seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face (all over not listing 480i on component).

The point to the www.svideo.com link was to show you that it MAY be possible to find a 480p component to 480i S-video convertor. Which should provide a better picture than composite to s-video.

Honestly - the 480i composite output is NOT that bad, and yes - there are options on the DVTPAL DVR to set it to output 16:9

Since the composite connection was released prior to HD TV availability and many quality near-HD 480i resolution TVs were released with both component and S-Video inputs, I felt that the DTVPal DVR would fit in with my other component output 480i capable equipment (Sony Blue Ray DVD Player, etc.) for my Sony tube TV.

One other point worth mentioning is that if your Sony TV is one of the "newer" tube sets, the difference in picture quality between S-Video and Component is mostly academic.

----------------

I have a question about how the content is saved? If the content is saved according to its broadcast mode, why we can get up to 150 hr in SD and only up to 30 hr in HD?

Can someone explain this?

Thanks,
AV

The DVR saves the streams for the subchannel directly. HD streams are typically 5-6 times the bit rate of the SD streams.

it was probably doing maintenance

How long should it take to perform maintenance? The first time this occurred I waited over 30 minutes before I decided that I needed to unplug.

By the way, I do like this unit. It is what I've waited for for a long time.

One other point worth mentioning is that if your Sony TV is one of the "newer" tube sets, the difference in picture quality between S-Video and Component is mostly academic.

For that matter - probably not much difference between Svideo and composite as well - since the Sony's had a pretty good comb filter.

Do the owners think this box is worth the money (even if there are no firmware updates)?

$250 seems like a lot considering the primative software and small harddrive. At the same time, there are not any competing products.I must say that I'm much happier with this purchase than I expected I would be.

A little history: First off, I have never used any sort of time shifting device in the past. The only thing I have tried was recording special events, such as the Olympics, using Windows Media Center. What a PITA that was! Last Christmas when I did most of my HDTV upgrading, I looked hard to find a suitable OTA HD DVR. All I found at the time was the Sony, which could be had for about $500 new. I was unable to justify that price for a box that had already been discontinued. So I waited. This November, my brother told me he had bought an HD DVR from Philips for $180. When I looked into it, I learned that it was not HD. However, in my studies here on AVS Forum I found out about the DTVPal DVR. It was just the ticket, and only $270 delivered!

I must say that I was not sure I would use a DVR that much, since I don't watch a lot of TV. I was wrong! This thing is what TVs have been missing from the beginning! I find that a DVR becomes more interesting the longer it has sat there and recorded shows on a timer. Now I have the option of watching ANY show regardless of when it airs, AND I can skip over the commercials with ease.

While I realize these are standard benefits of DVRs that many here have enjoyed for years, they are all new for me. While other players may offer better and fancier timers and recording modes, I'm extremely impressed with this one just as delivered, even if there are no further firmware updates.

The icing on the cake is that we already have some limited capability to upgrade the hard disk and I have no doubt that this box will lend itself as a platform for many future custom upgrades as we learn more about how it functions.

Just my US$0.02,

Reg

DVR Rebooted, Black Screen issue & Still a Much Better DVR than Directv or Cable:

I got a Black Screen Twice this Sunday during the Philips & Cowboys Game, but haven't seen that happen since.

It Rebooted by itself yesterday during playback on a recorded show.

Other than that it works Great! Since there's no other DVR out there, I don't want to pay for Directv or Cable anymore, this is the best option.

I had Directv, $100 for the Upgraded to a DVR and this had to be the Worst DVR ever made. It costed me over $200 just to Cancelled the Contract. Lost over $300.

Went with Cable, leased a DVR, paying about $150 per month. The DVR was so Noisy, I can't sleep, return it and I'm done with Cable.

DTVPal DVR - $270, + RadioShack Antenna - $50 + Unlimited HDTV OTA - $0 = Its Priceless!

...to add to that, if you consider that I paid about $400 for my Pannasonic DMR-E80H back about 4 or 5 years ago, this is a steal. Sure the E80 could record to a DVD, but it lacked the dual tuner and ability to record in HD. (It also had no guide at all, just the standard VCR type timers which could be named)

It does a fine job downconverting HD even through the lowly composite input, so it will stay around if nothing more than an extra archive machine (it has a 80GB hard drive ~35 hours SD)

How long should it take to perform maintenance? The first time this occurred I waited over 30 minutes before I decided that I needed to unplug.

By the way, I do like this unit. It is what I've waited for for a long time.

For what it's worth, I disabled guide udates and entered all zeros for the zip code (via the menu screens). I haven't observed any "maintenance mode" ("lockup"?)episodes since. Yet my TVGOS continues to be updated correctly, recordings occur as selected etc. One could conclude there may be something that still needs to be addressed, regarding software/firmware.

Overall, I also like this device as well.

Here are my results:

Included hard disk (250 GB 3.5"):
Western Digital WD10EACS-00ZJB0 (1 TB 3.5"):
Seagate ST9500325AS (500 GB 2.5"):
Western Digital WD2500BEVS-60UST0 (250GB 2.5")
Toshiba MK1246GSX (120GB 2.5")

Conclusions:

1) While some 2.5" drives appear to work in the DTVPal DVR, it appears the the power supply does not like having its 12V output unloaded. Somehow this results in frequent breakups in the picture.

2) The 2.5" drives save approximately 4W over the stock drive.

3) The only 3.5" drive I have on hand does not seem to work in this unit.

4) The low-power 1 TB WD drive saved only about 2W of power in the unit, which is less than I had predicted based on specifications. While the added space would have been nice had it worked, the overall power savings is less than 10%.


Reg

A very thorough testing scenario! Thank you for this.

What are the buffer sizes of the drives you tested above...and could this be a potential cause of the image breakups on the recorded materials?

I got a Black Screen Twice this Sunday during the Philips & Cowboys Game, but haven't seen that happen since.


They played like they were playing against their coach (Philips). I guess it was trying to tell you something...switch the channel, the game is over ;)

I bought this unit for my parents and they are getting frustrated by the random reboots and freezing. I had them disable the guide updates two days ago, but they claim the box still rebooted and froze up yesterday.

They've also have had a few instances of having a picture but no sound. Then when they try to change the channel, the box freezes and they have to unplug it to reset it. The DVR is connected to their SDTV through the included composite cable. All connections were checked and appear to be fine. I have done the firmware update. They do get TVGOS. The PQ is excellent.

Would a factory reset help? Hurt? Make no difference? Reformat the hard drive? Any other ideas?

Thanks for all the good information being posted on this forum.

I had them disable the guide updates two days ago, but they claim the box still rebooted and froze up yesterday.

You might have them also try entering zeros in the zip code. My experience is that TVGOS somehow continues to update correctly and I've not observed subsequent 'freeze ups'. (I admit this "fix" may seem odd, but on the other hand it seems to work.)

Does this freezing occur on both firmwares? (201/202). I haven't seen this issue on mine (still original firmware), but then again, I probably haven't watched more than 90 minutes in one sitting (its in the theater room for big event TV watching)

it was probably doing maintenance
What maintenance?
Mine rebooted this AM while I was watching a recorded show at the same time it was recording a timed program. No lockup, just a reboot. If it does it again I'll probably disable updates as has been suggested.
In spite of this glitch, which I'm guessing can be addressed with a fw update, I love this machine. :)

Edit: I'm still using the original fw, and will not be updating it until a new version is posted on the web with a list of issues addressed in the new.

Changing the update time or disabling it is not the answer to the random reboots, mine still rebooted. I have not try changing the zip code to all zeros.

So far I am happy with it. Would be extremely happy if they fix this random reboot.

If any beta testers still have the company's ear, please report the rebooting issue so they can start work on a firmware fix.