I'd like a single box that records and plays back OTA HDTV, and also streams hi-def movies.

So, speculating now: Will there be such a one-box solution in the near future? Tivo Premiere, if it added Vudu, would qualify, right? or if its streaming partners upgraded quality in time?If you have the Internet bandwidth to stream HD, the TiVo is the current 1-box solution for HD. It does not do Vudu, but it does do NetFlix, Amazon and Blockbuster.

I think if you insist on a 1-box DVR+ solution you will always be limited and 1 box will never do everything well -- if it did it would cost more than people would want to pay. Let the DVR be the DVR; since profile-2 BluRay players require an internet connection, BD players are hitting the market at the sub-$200 price point that will stream lots of services including NetFlix & Vudu and some will also act as DLNA clients for home network HD streaming.

So, it is all up to how long the Box can live.

Don't forget...the weak part in the box, the drive, is easily replaced....With free sw, a computer and a little technical know-how. (all info on the Tivo Community Forum, great bunch of people over their) Also, the drive can be purchased pre-imaged from DVR Upgrade, supporter of the Forum. This technically m-i-g-h-t be against Tivo's policy, but if you don't flaunt it in their face....nothing is said....I think they want to keep you as a user. Cable might charge you for a 'truck roll' if they need to reset your cards....depends on the cable system....If you have cable, personally I don't.

Was the display model "hooked up" to a TV so you can see it working, etc?The display model is simply a case shell - just like you find in Sears. The ports are depicted on a piece of cardboard for reference. Maybe "dummy" model is a better description...

FWIW, the endcap is on aisle 3A/3B in SW Houston Fry's. I searched the TV,etc area and there was no sign of it.

So, it is all up to how long the Box can live.

It's a simple comparison really - $300 for a DTVPal, or $500 for an equivilent (but refurbished) Tivo. I've used both, and actually (gasp) like using the DTVPal better. Tivo is just too dumbed down for me and loaded with features I don't want, which clutter the menus. And the sound effects are too annoying. But the DTVPal's reliability issues will probably eventually force all of its users to a Tivo...

It's a simple comparison really - $300 for a DTVPal, or $500 for an equivilent (but refurbished) Tivo. I've used both, and actually (gasp) like using the DTVPal better. Tivo is just too dumbed down for me and loaded with features I don't want, which clutter the menus. And the sound effects are too annoying.If the Pal were more reliable, I'd be using one of those instead of the TiVo for my simple OTA needs instead. There's supposedly one in the big city near me for $99.95. If I can ever get over that way (40 miles away), I still might consider picking it up, just for the heck of it (if they still have it by then - and if I'm in a "blowing money" sort of mood). If the thing actually works dependably enough, I have TV's I can use it on.

As far as the TiVo's sound effects, you can turn them off.

I have a few thoughts regarding the current discussion of the Dish DVR vs. TiVo and the Channel Master DVR vs. TiVo. At the current closeout pricing of the Dish DVR I think the scales are definitely tipped in the direction of going with the Dish over the TiVo. Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly) is currently showing pricing as low as $104.93 and Sears retail stores are closing these out right now at $199 (or $169 or $149 or lower as some have reported in this thread). At that price point IMHO the Dish wins out over the TiVo even taking into account the ? reliability and other known issues (i.e. "loading please wait" loop) with the Dish.

Now the Channel Master version at its current pricing of $350-$400 is another story. At that price point I think that the TiVo would have to be given much more serious consideration before purchasing the Channel Master. I say this assuming that the Channel Master is an exact copy of the DTVPal DVR with F208 firmware. From what we have seen and read so far that seems to be the case.

For those wondering what the TiVo fees are so that you can do your own comparisons to the Dish and Channel Master DVRs, here they are:

1. Monthly service at $12.95/month
2. Annual service at $129 ($10.75/month over 1 year)
3. 3-year service at $299 ($8.31/month over 3 years)
4. Product Lifetime service at $399 ($6.65/month over 5 years)

The bottom line is it's totally a personal decision as to which route that you go. Factors like total cost of ownership, features, reliability, after-sale service, etc. all have to be evaluated and prioritized by you before making your decision.

There's supposedly one in the big city near me for $99.95. If I can ever get over that way (40 miles away), I still might consider picking it up, just for the heck of it (if they still have it by then - and if I'm in a "blowing money" sort of mood). If the thing actually works,


Is this for a refurbished or Used one? Or a new one for $99?

ty

My Aunt asked me to verify a couple of things before we get the DishPal DVR.

We currently have the DishPAL.

So what are the major differences and/or improvements between the DishPal and the DishPal DVR?

These are the few that I know. That are added features over the Dishpal (with no DVR)Am I missing any?

1) TVGOS (TVGUIDE)

2) Free updates (not sure if Dish will continue free updates on a discontinued model?)

3) Firmware FR 108 Compared to FR 106 on Dishpal non dvr. (less buggy)

4) Different sizes of GUIDE available for DVR version.

5) Pause live TV

6) Record two shows or watch one and record another.


This is all I have so far. Am I missing anything?

Thank You guys in advance.


PS Is the DVR quite when it spins all the time? Or is there a buzzing noise?

when the dtvpal came out at 250, and the comparable tivo hd was 750, it was a no-brainer. The tivo product is more polished so at 500 for the tivo hd vs 350 for a channel master may make the decision closer, but I already have the dtvpal. The market is moving towards integrated htpc's. Look for a "google tv" like box in the near future with a built in tuner and hd. It'll be a couple years off, but they're coming.

google announced the TV/box today, shipping by this Xmas

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/21/google-tv-everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

(...) Is the DVR quite when it spins all the time? Or is there a buzzing noise?
Yes, its very quiet.

Yes, its very quiet.

Thanks and my other questions?

My Aunt asked me to verify a couple of things before we get the DishPal DVR.

We currently have the DishPAL.

So what are the major differences and/or improvements between the DishPal and the DishPal DVR?

These are the few that I know. That are added features over the Dishpal (with no DVR)Am I missing any?

This is all I have so far. Am I missing anything?

Thank You guys in advance.


PS Is the DVR quite when it spins all the time? Or is there a buzzing noise?

10 sec skip back
30 sec skip ahead , best feature to skip commercials,
pause a show at the beginning, do something else, after 20 or so minutes begin watching the show and skip ahead of every commercials in just a few clicks.
search for programs in the guide
easy programming from the guide to record a show
no more handling of cumbersome vhs tapes

Is this for a refurbished or Used one? Or a new one for $99?Refurbished.

Is there a quick way to get to the begining of the buffer while watching a live program? Besides using the rew 300x.

My Aunt asked me to verify a couple of things before we get the DishPal DVR.

We currently have the DishPAL.

So what are the major differences and/or improvements between the DishPal and the DishPal DVR?

These are the few that I know. That are added features over the Dishpal (with no DVR)Am I missing any?

1) TVGOS (TVGUIDE)

2) Free updates (not sure if Dish will continue free updates on a discontinued model?)

3) Firmware FR 108 Compared to FR 106 on Dishpal non dvr. (less buggy)

4) Different sizes of GUIDE available for DVR version.

5) Pause live TV

6) Record two shows or watch one and record another.


This is all I have so far. Am I missing anything?

Thank You guys in advance.


PS Is the DVR quite when it spins all the time? Or is there a buzzing noise?

you can record 2 shows and watch a previously recorded program at the same time.

you can record 2 shows and watch a previously recorded program at the same time.

Thanks guys. I was hoping I missed something good. See My aunt never used or had a DVR. She does not think she needs one. Everyone I know who got one has become addicted to the DVR. Of course these are cable DVR's, but the pal is similar.

So because the price is dropping like a rock and the Clearmaster is $350. Now is the time to strike. imo

Thanks guys. I was hoping I missed something good. See My aunt never used or had a DVR. She does not think she needs one. Everyone I know who got one has become addicted to the DVR. Of course these are cable DVR's, but the pal is similar.

So because the price is dropping like a rock and the Clearmaster is $350. Now is the time to strike. imo

It is still available at the kmart site.
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?vName=Computers+%26+Electron ics&keyword=dtvpal+dvr&sLevel=1

Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Antenna-HD-DVR/13968952

TiVo.com has refurbished TiVo HD's on sale for $99.99 right now. They also have the TiVo HD XL (larger hard drive) for $199.99.

If you're planning on using the ATSC tuner, the TiVo HD's actually performs better than the newer, TiVo Premiere's at this point.

That seems like some good pricing at the TiVo Clearance Center (https://www3.tivo.com/store/clearance.do?WT.mc_id=CP1004) as they are showing the "regular" price of the TiVo HD at $199.99 and the "regular" price of the TiVo HD XL at $449.99. The thing that I noticed, however, is that TiVo's warranty (https://www3.tivo.com/buytivo/windowpopup-dvrlimitedwarranty_ajax.html) on both their new and refurbished units is rather stingy at 90 days labor and 1 year parts. It's not as bad as Dish's DTVPal DVR at 90 days parts and labor but stingy just the same considering that some of TiVo's new units (https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxes.do) are selling for as much as $499.99. It certainly doesn't instill much confidence in the consumer when the manufacturer will only back up a $500 piece of electronic equipment with 90 days of labor coverage.

That seems like some good pricing at the TiVo Clearance Center (https://www3.tivo.com/store/clearance.do?WT.mc_id=CP1004) as they are showing the "regular" price of the TiVo HD at $199.99 and the "regular" price of the TiVo HD XL at $449.99. The thing that I noticed, however, is that TiVo's warranty (https://www3.tivo.com/buytivo/windowpopup-dvrlimitedwarranty_ajax.html) on both their new and refurbished units is rather stingy at 90 days labor and 1 year parts. It's not as bad as Dish's DTVPal DVR at 90 days parts and labor but stingy just the same considering that some of TiVo's new units (https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxes.do) are selling for as much as $499.99. It certainly doesn't instill much confidence in the consumer when the manufacturer will only back up a $500 piece of electronic equipment with 90 days of labor coverage.That may or may not be the case, but should the TiVo have problems when the warranty runs out -- There is a place to send it to get fixed!!!

The Pal DVR goes in the dumpster.

That may or may not be the case, but should the TiVo have problems when the warranty runs out -- There is a place to send it to get fixed!!!

The Pal DVR goes in the dumpster.

You have a valid point about out-of-warranty support being available for the TiVo product line and not for the Dish DTVPal DVR. It seems like the Channel Master version, like its predecessor from Dish, will also not offer any repair options or parts availability after the manufacturer's warranty period (1 year parts and labor for the Channel Master) is up. Poster "tankthecrank" had a conversation with Channel Master tech support about this very subject and posted the results on 04-21-2010 in post #111 located here (http://www.dtvusaforum.com/converter-boxes-atsc-tuners/2479-dtvpal-dvr-6.html#post58704).

That may or may not be the case, but should the TiVo have problems when the warranty runs out -- There is a place to send it to get fixed!!!

The Pal DVR goes in the dumpster.

For me, the issue of getting a piece of electronics fixed after the warranty has run out is not even a factor when purchasing something (assuming the price is say, $500 or less to begin with). After all, how many people actually get electronics equipment fixed after the warranty has run out anyway? I never have since it usually costs almost as much to fix something as it does to just buy a new one. I'm guessing most people do the same.

I will say however, that the length of the initial warranty does make a difference though.

Hello

I was in Sears yesterday and the DTVpal was on clearance for 169. I asked him to check if there were any in stock. He said no, but mentioned the price is now 149. I asked him to check another store in the Phoenix area and they had them in stock so I had to buy one.

Huh, mileage must really vary depending on where you live because three different stores around me--central MI--told me $299, $199.97, and $199. Plus, using the item number mentioned in a previous post (57709), only two of the four stores I checked were able to find it in their system (while the other two could not, only one could not find it with an item number nor keyword search).

Huh, mileage must really vary depending on where you live because three different stores around me--central MI--told me $299, $199.97, and $199. Plus, using the item number mentioned in a previous post (57709), only two of the four stores I checked were able to find it in their system (while the other two could not, only one could not find it with an item number nor keyword search).

The last time I checked the local Sears price here in the Massachusetts/Rhode Island market it was $199.97 but that was a few weeks ago. I believe that once an item gets to closeout status at Sears, like the DTVPal DVR is right now, pricing can vary from sales region to sales region and even from store to store. Perhaps they give their individual department or store managers latitude on closeout pricing depending on how much inventory they have left to "get rid of" before sending it to the Sears Outlet stores.

Even the pricing at the Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly) (which is separate from Sears retail stores) varies from area to area and from store to store. Right now they are showing a price range of $104.93-$209.93 for the DTVPal DVR. Under "Why Do Prices Vary?" it says "Prices vary by Sears Outlet store locations. Lowest prices may represent Outlet prices outside of the chosen stores."

Is there a quick way to get to the begining of the buffer while watching a live program? Besides using the rew 300x.

Try selecting the RECORD ENTIRE PROGRAM option then you can select START from the DVR menu. Of course this may back up more than you want because the live TV buffer does not get cleared with the start of each program.

If in the Chicagoland area, you can find the DTVPAL DVR in some Sears retail stores.

You can't rely on the Sears outlet website for locations or prices, as it's inventory search is not accurate and prices vary by store.

If you visit a Sears store, they can check the inventory on their computer. If none in that store they may be able to find inventory in a nearby store. The DVR is dept# 57 (Electronics) and the stock# is 57709.

Was in Chicago this weekend, and found 12 DTVPAL DVR's in the Woodfield Mall Sears (11 now as I bought my 2nd one there for $199.97!), they also told me the Fox Valley Mall Sears had 4. Good luck shopping! (BTW, they are not on the shelf, they must be retrieved from stockroom.)

Have used my 1st DVR since Sept. 2009, came with F208 and have had no problems with it. Haven't set up the new one yet, but guessing it also has F208 firmware.

6) Record two shows or watch one and record another.


Just to clarify....

6a) Record two shows
6b) Record one show and watch a second show live
6c) Record two shows and watch a recorded show
6d) Record two shows and watch a third show live using the tuner in your TV.
In order to do 6d you need to connect the RF output on the DVR to the antenna input on your TV and the DVR has to be OFF/Bypass.

Why is the Channel Master CM7000 $399 when the Dish DVR was less than $300 when it first came out? Is it better or just overpriced?

Why is the Channel Master CM7000 $399 when the Dish DVR was less than $300 when it first came out? Is it better or just overpriced?

According to paragraph 4 of the review located here (http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DTV-Pal-OTA-HDTV-Receiver-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.shtml) they are the same DVR with different brand names. The only difference mentioned in the review is that the Channel Master version has a longer warranty (1-year parts and labor warranty compared to the Dish version which has a 90-days parts and labor warranty). You can form your own conclusions on each company's MSRP pricing structure.

if you can distinguish a PAL DVR and Channelmaster DVR. They can probably only allow Channelmaster DVR to upgrade new software.

According to paragraph 4 of the review located here (http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DTV-Pal-OTA-HDTV-Receiver-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.shtml) they are the same DVR with different brand names. The only difference mentioned in the review is that the Channel Master version has a longer warranty (1-year parts and labor warranty compared to the Dish version which has a 90-days parts and labor warranty). You can form your own conclusions on each company's MSRP pricing structure.

According to paragraph 4 of the review located here (http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DTV-Pal-OTA-HDTV-Receiver-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.shtml) they are the same DVR with different brand names. The only difference mentioned in the review is that the Channel Master version has a longer warranty (1-year parts and labor warranty compared to the Dish version which has a 90-days parts and labor warranty). You can form your own conclusions on each company's MSRP pricing structure.

kmart.com has a $30 2 year warranty protection plan on the dtvpal.

Just to clarify....

6a) Record two shows
6b) Record one show and watch a second show live
6c) Record two shows and watch a recorded show
6d) Record two shows and watch a third show live using the tuner in your TV.
In order to do 6d you need to connect the RF output on the DVR to the antenna input on your TV and the DVR has to be OFF/Bypass.

6d does not apply. We do not have a LCD tv yet. We have a analog TV. I assume that the Dish\pal DVR converts the HD/SD signal to Analog. Just lioke the dishPAL without the DVR. That is what have now. PAL with no DVR.

The only difference mentioned in the review is that the Channel Master version has a longer warranty (1-year parts and labor warranty compared to the Dish version which has a 90-days parts and labor warranty).Channel Master has always gotten away with being able to sell some of their own stuff for a bit higher price, because it was better-than-average quality.

Although it might not be saying much, I'd probably expect better seller support and customer service for it from most of these outfits, especially Crutchfield.

Personally, I'm of the camp that says for around 100 bucks, I'd take a chance on the Echostar version, but for the CM price, I'd just go with a refurbished TiVo HD w/lifetime. But that's me. If I ever gamble on anything, it's as penny-ante as possible.

Channel Master has always been a little \. Personally, I'm of the camp that says for 100 bucks I'd take a chance on the one now, but for the CM price (or anything more than around 100 bucks, for that matter), I'd just go with a refurbished TiVo HD w/lifetime. But again, that's me. If I ever gamble on anything, it's as penny-ante as possible.


Where is it $100? That is the price I am looking for.

I'm sure he meant for the 100 bucks difference in price.

If anyone reading this thread is looking to purchase the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR, I would suggest you head over to Amazon.com and their Featured Merchants (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new) for the best prices on the internet that I've seen to date:

1. ANTOnline is $329.21 plus $6.98 shipping
2. Amazon.com is $342.89 with free shipping included
3. Beach Audio is $340.30 plus $8.68 shipping

Keep in mind that these prices tend to fluctuate frequently so by the time you get there they may be different from what I've posted. If you find anything lower than these prices, please post the information for others reading this thread.

I'm sure he meant for the 100 bucks difference in price.

Another question.

The DTVPAL DVR works with CRT TVs (non- flat screen)? Just like the Dishpal non- dvr does?

I am assuming this is true?

Another question.

The DTVPAL DVR works with CRT TVs (non- flat screen0? Just like the Dishpal non- dvr does?

I am assuming this is true?

Yes, it will work with any tv or monitor that has compatible input(s). I will no longer buy a tv or monitor that does not have both computer and tv inputs.

Where is it $100? That is the price I am looking for.

It's not quite $100 but I'm seeing one new DTVPal DVR available (? if more than one available) for $119.93 at the Sears Retail Store in South Burlington, Vermont according to the Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&pmd=srh_nrb_md&mode=buyUsedOnly#) website search tool. Maybe you can purchase it over the phone and they could ship it to you for an extra charge. The full store contact information is as follows:

S BURLINGTON - Sears Retail Store
Store # 1463
155 Dorset St
S Burlington, VT 05403-6346
Phone: 802-859-2000

Store Hours:
9:30 AM-9:00 PM (Mon-Fri)
8:00 AM-9:00 PM (Sat)
10:00 AM-6:30 PM (Sun)

Yes, it will work with any tv or monitor that has compatible input(s). I will no longer buy a tv or monitor that does not have both computer and tv inputs.

Waiting for the old TV's to die. My next tv will be the new LCD's that are INTERNET READY. They use your router for connection. You can DL movies or get netflix. Youttube ect. Some is free and some with cost

It's not quite $100 but I'm seeing one new DTVPal DVR available (? if more than one available) for $119.93 at the Sears Retail Store in South Burlington, Vermont...Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

Last time I looked, they still had one for $99.93 in this area, but it's gone now and I see they've upped the low end on the main page.

You have to check the site often, because stuff comes and goes fairly quick, and the prices vary.

If anyone reading this thread is looking to purchase the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR, I would suggest you head over to Amazon.com and their Featured Merchants (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new) for the best prices on the internet that I've seen to date:

1. ANTOnline is $329.21 plus $6.98 shipping
2. Amazon.com is $342.89 with free shipping included
3. Beach Audio is $340.30 plus $8.68 shipping

Keep in mind that these prices tend to fluctuate frequently so by the time you get there they may be different from what I've posted. If you find anything lower than these prices, please post the information for others reading this thread.

We have to remember that the Channel Master version just came out. There will be an adjustment in price to balance price for demand. As price goes up demand goes down, as price goes down demand goes up. It will take a while for the prices to reach their stability point, and it may be much lower than the original MSRP. We don't know what the wholesale price is.

I wonder who is really making the box and is ultimately responsible for QC and addressing performance issues.

Has anyone actually purchased a Channel Master yet and can confirm which firmware it has? I'm guessing that since it has a different graphics in its menus that the firmware will not be compatible with DTV Pal DVR's.

Has anyone actually purchased a Channel Master yet and can confirm which firmware it has? I'm guessing that since it has a different graphics in its menus that the firmware will not be compatible with DTV Pal DVR's.

In comparing the two manuals, the only difference I see in the screens is: One says “Dish” the other says “Channel Master”. For the most part the graphics appear the same. I have no idea about the firmware, I have not seen the unit.

Has anyone actually purchased a Channel Master yet and can confirm which firmware it has? I'm guessing that since it has a different graphics in its menus that the firmware will not be compatible with DTV Pal DVR's.

Unfortunately there is no firmware posted yet at the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR Support Page (http://www.channelmaster.com/product-overview.php?proID=144&catID=45) to let us know what firmware version they are at. This is in contrast to the Dish DTVPal DVR which first shipped in December 2008 with firmware version F201. At that time firmware version F202 was posted on the Dish website even before customers were receiving their DVRs from the first shipment from Dish.

I have to agree with you that it is very doubtful that you will be able to update a Dish unit using Channel Master firmware. The Dish unit probably has to find "something" in the update to make sure it's a proper update before it allows it to install. It's probably the same reason why we can't go backwards with the firmware versions. If that "something" can't be found, it won't let the process continue and the firmware will not load. Maybe someone on this thread can hack the Channel Master firmware (when/if it becomes available) for the rest of us so that it will install on our Dish units without bricking them! :eek:

Has anyone actually purchased a Channel Master yet and can confirm which firmware it has? I'm guessing that since it has a different graphics in its menus that the firmware will not be compatible with DTV Pal DVR's.

My guess is slightly different. I would think Channel master does not have the resources to edit and create updates for the firmware. Is anyone does, it's Echostar. Either they will make updates for both brands or none will be made at all and the firmware will remain as is with version F208. JMHO only, take it for what's its worth. At this point it's all speculation.

My DTV Pal will not record from certain channels. It allows me to set up a timer for a certain program on ABC, but it does not record them. It records on other channels (NBC, CBS, etc.). It used to record that channel, but lately will not.

Weak or broken signal maybe?

Has anyone used their DTVPal DVR to watch recorded programs without the antenna connected? I may try it when we go out of town to a place where antennaweb says there is no chance of OTA reception at all.

Has anyone used their DTVPal DVR to watch recorded programs without the antenna connected? I may try it when we go out of town to a place where antennaweb says there is no chance of OTA reception at all.
Yes. My antenna is on an amplifier which is on a timer. Sometimes I'll be up really late and watch a recorded show even though there is no signal. No problem.

Crutchfield has posted a video review (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=6597000PAL&tp=31) of the new Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR on their website. It contains many actual screen shots which show the Channel Master name in the screen shots. One thing I did notice, however, is that the box had a large white Channel Master sticker right where the DTVPal logo is on the Dish version and the remote was silver (not black like the Channel Master remote) and it too had a Channel Master sticker right where the Dish logo is on the Dish remote. This leads me to believe that Crutchfield was given a pre-production model to test/evaluate but that it was actually a Dish DTVPal DVR loaded with the Channel Master firmware (based on the Channel Master screen shots shown in the video.)

This is further evidence that the "new" Channel Master DVR is nothing more than a rebadged Dish DTVPal DVR as many on this thread have speculated. It also shows that the Channel Master firmware will run just fine on the Dish version of the DVR if it is initially installed by the manufacturer. The question remains, however, if DVRs with the Dish firmware can be converted to the Channel Master firmware in the field if they already have the Dish firmware installed.

This is for all the TiVo fans, and those who are thinking of buying one. If things don't turn around for the company they may turn into bricks.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2010/05/24/daily28.html?ana=from_rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+industry_7+%28Industry+Technology%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Has anyone used their DTVPal DVR to watch recorded programs without the antenna connected? I may try it when we go out of town to a place where antennaweb says there is no chance of OTA reception at all.
Yes. It works fine. I am now in a valley surrounded by mountains with no OTA. I could watch all my prerecorded programs. When screen says serching for signal just use the DVR button.

This is for all the TiVo fans, and those who are thinking of buying one. If things don't turn around for the company they may turn into bricks.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2010/05/24/daily28.html?ana=from_rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+industry_7+%28Industry+Technology%29&utm_content=My+YahooNot worried. Even if TiVo the company goes under someone will pick up supplying the guide info to the established base. Look at all the people still using Replay TV boxes and getting guide information. There may not be any more feature development in the software or new hardware but there will be guide data. And it actually may be cheaper.

I expect to be using my TiVo for many years to come.

Crutchfield has posted a video review (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=6597000PAL&tp=31) of the new Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR on their website. It contains many actual screen shots which show the Channel Master name in the screen shots. One thing I did notice, however, is that the box had a large white Channel Master sticker right where the DTVPal logo is on the Dish version and the remote was silver (not black like the Channel Master remote) and it too had a Channel Master sticker right where the Dish logo is on the Dish remote. This leads me to believe that Crutchfield was given a pre-production model to test/evaluate but that it was actually a Dish DTVPal DVR loaded with the Channel Master firmware (based on the Channel Master screen shots shown in the video.)

This is further evidence that the "new" Channel Master DVR is nothing more than a rebadged Dish DTVPal DVR as many on this thread have speculated. It also shows that the Channel Master firmware will run just fine on the Dish version of the DVR if it is initially installed by the manufacturer. The question remains, however, if DVRs with the Dish firmware can be converted to the Channel Master firmware in the field if they already have the Dish firmware installed.

Perhaps Channel Master will sell us all 'Stickers' for our PAL boxes. :D:D:D:D

Sorry ....Can't help myself.

Perhaps Channel Master will sell us all 'Stickers' for our PAL boxes. :D:D:D:D

Sorry ....Can't help myself.

If adding the Channel Master stickers to my Dish box and remote would allow me to install Channel Master firmware updates/upgrades in the future, I would do it! :rolleyes:

Assuming there will be any.

I'm still curious as to who is actually making these boxes and is ultimately responsible for fixing any show-stopper bugs. I think we can safely assume it's not Channel Master, they're just the primary distributer of the rebadge. Does Dish even have any involvement any more. Can you tell from the pictures if the CM-7000DVR still has the vestigial access-card slot on the front.

I would think that any firmware updates would continue to be done by Eldon. (Nothing like designing DTV hardware & software in the UK for use here in the US)

In comparing the two manuals, the only difference I see in the screens is: One says “Dish” the other says “Channel Master”. For the most part the graphics appear the same. I have no idea about the firmware, I have not seen the unit.

The manual indicates that it has a different URL encoded for the internet download.

I would think that any firmware updates would continue to be done by Eldon. (Nothing like designing DTV hardware & software in the UK for use here in the US)
Where did you get the name ?

Yes. My antenna is on an amplifier which is on a timer. Sometimes I'll be up really late and watch a recorded show even though there is no signal. No problem.

Thank you. I have only owned my DTV Pal DVR for 2 weeks. I got it at Sears regular store for $199. This is great for our RV and OTA. This next week, though, we will get zero TV reception at the campground. So I am recording shows to watch if it rains.

Thank you. I have only owned my DTV Pal DVR for 2 weeks. I got it at Sears regular store for $199. This is great for our RV and OTA. This next week, though, we will get zero TV reception at the campground. So I am recording shows to watch if it rains.

Are you happy with your purchase? What Firmware version did it come with? Did you have to update it?

Are you happy with your purchase? What Firmware version did it come with? Did you have to update it?

It came with F208, so I did not have to update it. Yes, I am happy with my purchase.

After using HD DirecTiVo units since the first month they became available, I recently switched to DirecTV HR22 and HR23 units. Since they do not come with OTA tuners, I decided to get a DTV Pal DVR for OTA so we (my wife and I) have 2 more tuners to record with.

So far no hiccups with the Pal. I did buy the 3-year warranty from Sears for $30.

It does not have the full feature set of my other HD DVRs, but it does get the job done. TVGOS is working fine for me here in the Seattle area. I do not use cable TV, just OTA and DirecTV.

It came with F208, so I did not have to update it. Yes, I am happy with my purchase.

I did buy the 3-year warranty from Sears for $30.

.

On the Warranty. Was there a cheaper version? Does it have to be 3 years?

Also If it breaks and the unit is discontinued. What do they do? Store credit? Money back?

On the Warranty. Was there a cheaper version? Does it have to be 3 years?

Also If it breaks and the unit is discontinued. What do they do? Store credit? Money back?

The Sears PurchaseProtect (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/) extended warranty is for 3 years only if you purchase a Kenmore or Craftsman product. Any other brand purchased at Sears (which includes the DTVPal DVR) is covered for 2 years and that coverage starts 30 days after your purchase.

For the full terms and conditions for your state go to this page (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/tnc.aspx) and click on your state in the list. It will tell you everything you need to know about how they will handle your warranty claim in your state. Because of variations in consumer laws there are some differences from state to state.

DK - This is for all the TiVo fans, and those who are thinking of buying one. If things don't turn around for the company they may turn into bricks.

I hope they do go out of business or at least get close, then maybe they'll release their hold on the DVR technology they claim to own. (hence the lawsuit).

Then maybe it will free up other companies to develop more OTA HD DVRs.

The Sears PurchaseProtect (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/) extended warranty is for 3 years only if you purchase a Kenmore or Craftsman product. Any other brand purchased at Sears (which includes the DTVPal DVR) is covered for 2 years and that coverage starts 30 days after your purchase.

For the full terms and conditions for your state go to this page (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/tnc.aspx) and click on your state in the list. It will tell you everything you need to know about how they will handle your warranty claim in your state. Because of variations in consumer laws there are some differences from state to state.
I hate reading mumbo jumbo. Ok I found out. First 30 days return to sears for refund or exchange. After that Return Item to address they provide. Then a gift card is refunded to you. So it is Store credit. To be used on anything at the sears store. So if they have no more Dishpal dvrs in stock you can use it toward anything else.

DK - This is for all the TiVo fans, and those who are thinking of buying one. If things don't turn around for the company they may turn into bricks.

I hope they do go out of business or at least get close, then maybe they'll release their hold on the DVR technology they claim to own. (hence the lawsuit).

Then maybe it will free up other companies to develop more OTA HD DVRs.

Since litigation based on their intellectual property claims seems to be the only thing they do that makes any money I doubt they will give up on that until some court finally tells them that they can patent their hardware and some software procedures but the idea of pausing and rewinding over the air broadcasts fails the non obvious and prior art tests.

Wow, that ChannelMaster box is so attractively pitched on the Crutchfield site, it makes me want to get one. No, wait. I already have a Dish DTVPal DVR, and it does all that good stuff Crutchfield says the CM box will do.

You might be surprised. I put one in my RV a year ago and I get a signal anytime we take the RV out. If you haven't added the Winegard Wingman to your RV antenna, you should. It just snaps on and adds more UHF reception. I do a factory reset when I get to my destination and it brings in all the stations and guide data for where we are. You need the Zip code. I even run it on a 12 volt to 115 converter if I'm not plugged in.
Tom D Orlando

For those still looking to purchase a Dish DTVPal DVR but can't find one for $199.97 or less at their local Sears retail store or Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly), Kmart.com (http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?keyword=dtvpal&sLevel=0) is selling it right now for $239.99 (20% off the regular $299.99 price) and it also includes free shipping (regular $6.95). The 20% off and free shipping specials both end on Monday, 05-31-2010, per the website. As a test I added the Pal to my cart and both specials appeared in the cart.

Ok, I am considering one of these contraptions.

I currently own a Sony DHG-HDD500 and clearly realize the DishPAL DVR or CM7000 PAL is not nearly as “polished” and “refined” as the Sony Product.

Picture quality is a key question. Since “native” mode is not available, that leaves leaves only 1080i as a choice for my system set up.

On pure 1080i sources will the unit be able to maintain “exact” Pixel Mapping like the Sony, Or will it act like a regular DVR from TWC or Comcast and inject some overscan?

Has anyone confirmed this on a 1080p panel? One way or another?

Thanks

The Sears PurchaseProtect (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/) extended warranty is for 3 years only if you purchase a Kenmore or Craftsman product. Any other brand purchased at Sears (which includes the DTVPal DVR) is covered for 2 years and that coverage starts 30 days after your purchase.

For the full terms and conditions for your state go to this page (http://www.searspurchaseprotect.com/tnc.aspx) and click on your state in the list. It will tell you everything you need to know about how they will handle your warranty claim in your state. Because of variations in consumer laws there are some differences from state to state.

Thank you for clarifying that. I suspected the Sears salesperson did not have the complete and accurate story.

Regardless, given the reduced price of the unit, buying what turns out to be a 2-year money-back warranty works for me, since Dish/Echostar only covers 90 days.

BTW, last night at our local Fry's I saw a shelf full of the Channel Master CM7000Pal units for $369 each.

Ok, I am considering one of these contraptions.

I currently own a Sony DHG-HDD500 and clearly realize the DishPAL DVR or CM7000 PAL is not nearly as “polished” and “refined” as the Sony Product.

Picture quality is a key question. Since “native” mode is not available, that leaves leaves only 1080i as a choice for my system set up.

On pure 1080i sources will the unit be able to maintain “exact” Pixel Mapping like the Sony, Or will it act like a regular DVR from TWC or Comcast and inject some overscan?

Has anyone confirmed this on a 1080p panel? One way or another?

Thanks

See Pre-Purchase question #15 in the first post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A3

The DVR plays back exactly what was received with no additional processing.

See Pre-Purchase question #15 in the first post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A3

The DVR plays back exactly what was received with no additional processing.Well, that's not exactly correct, is it, because the unit does not have a native output. So depending on what you have the output set for it will up/down-convert and/or inter/deinter-lace the original signal. That could be quite a bit of processing.

For those still looking to purchase a Dish DTVPal DVR but can't find one for $199.97 or less at their local Sears retail store or Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly), Kmart.com (http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?keyword=dtvpal&sLevel=0) is selling it right now for $239.99 (20% off the regular $299.99 price) and it also includes free shipping (regular $6.95). The 20% off and free shipping specials both end on Monday, 05-31-2010, per the website. As a test I added the Pal to my cart and both specials appeared in the cart.

ME either . So I can not find out where that guy said the price was $150 at a store. Or even $169

See Pre-Purchase question #15 in the first post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A3

The DVR plays back exactly what was received with no additional processing.

As the Kelson post above has noted - that is not correct. Since a 720 source must go threw a ton of processing for 1080i output is one issue.

The other issue is the "overscan" recording 1080 processing for 1080 output. I have seen a lot of DVRs mess this up badly.

So I already know it cannot do "native" (even though there appears to be some conflict in the manual concerning this for HDMI output?).

But if the box is not able to "pixel match" (no overscan for 1080), then that would be a deal killer for me.

Just bought the Pal online at Kmart.com. It was $239.99 before tax depending on what state you're in. ($258.59 total). All the discounts showed up in the cart. I was going to wait for the ChannelMaster but from what I read on the forum it's the same unit.

Just bought the Pal online at Kmart.com. It was $239.99 before tax depending on what state you're in. ($258.59 total). All the discounts showed up in the cart. I was going to wait for the ChannelMaster but from what I read on the forum it's the same unit.

Just curious why you did not go to SEARS? I have seen as well as many others a price of $199. Why pay more?

I never understood why they have two different prices and they are owned by same company.

As the Kelson post above has noted - that is not correct. Since a 720 source must go threw a ton of processing for 1080i output is one issue.

The other issue is the "overscan" recording 1080 processing for 1080 output. I have seen a lot of DVRs mess this up badly.

So I already know it cannot do "native" (even though there appears to be some conflict in the manual concerning this for HDMI output?).

But if the box is not able to "pixel match" (no overscan for 1080), then that would be a deal killer for me.
You can lock/change your output resolution for HDMI/Component outputs to 720p or 1080i and chose what is best for YOUR TV set.

ME either . So I can not find out where that guy said the price was $150 at a store. Or even $169

In the post that you are referring to (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18663586&postcount=9494), the poster clearly stated that he had obtained the $169 and $149 pricing on the DTVPal DVR at Sears stores located in the Phoenix, Arizona area. If you want to track one down at those prices go to the Sears website store locator (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/StoreLocatorView?storeId=10153), type in Phoenix, Arizona and it will bring up all of the Sears stores located in that area along with their phone numbers. All you have to do then is start calling the stores until you locate one at the $150 or $169 price. You will then have the information that you are looking for. :eek:

The other option, assuming you haven't tried it already, would be to simply send a Private Message to the poster, gummydmilo, and ask him exactly where he bought his DTVPal DVR for $149.

Just bought the Pal online at Kmart.com. It was $239.99 before tax depending on what state you're in. ($258.59 total). All the discounts showed up in the cart. I was going to wait for the ChannelMaster but from what I read on the forum it's the same unit.

I would have suggested the 2-year Kmart Smart Plan extended warranty for $29.99 for some extra piece of mind.

I've owned both the DTVPal DVR and the Sony DHG-HDD250. If you display doesn't overscan, this machine won't do it for you. When I had mine hooked to the projector, I could still see the VBI lines of some SD analog shows that the local broadcaster simply upconverted to 1080i.

Bottom line, I could tell no difference in picture quality between the two units with the same OTA antenna source. (This on a 720p TV and 100" 720p projector...output on both set to 720p)

In the post that you are referring to (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18663586&postcount=9494), the poster clearly stated that he had obtained the $169 and $149 pricing on the DTVPal DVR at Sears stores located in the Phoenix, Arizona area. If you want to track one down at those prices go to the Sears website store locator (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/StoreLocatorView?storeId=10153), type in Phoenix, Arizona and it will bring up all of the Sears stores located in that area along with their phone numbers. All you have to do then is start calling the stores until you locate one at the $150 or $169 price. You will then have the information that you are looking for. :eek:

The other option, assuming you haven't tried it already, would be to simply send a Private Message to the poster, gummydmilo, and ask him exactly where he bought his DTVPal DVR for $149.

I tried PM and no replay for a week or so.

Wouldn't the shipping offset the $30 to $50 savings?

I went to my local sears today. They had none. The need the locate in-store number. To even look at their computer. None on the floor. They were not helpful at all. A Sears 35 miles away I know has them for $199. Had 6 last time I checked.

Would ANYONE have the Sears locator number for the Dishpal DVR. This is the in-house number that only Sears would use.

This number would help me greatly.

thanks

Would ANYONE have the Sears locator number for the Dishpal DVR. This is the in-house number that only Sears would use.

This number would help me greatly.

thanks

It's posted right at the Sears Outlet website (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly): Sears item # 57709

It's posted right at the Sears Outlet website (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly): Sears item # 57709

Dam it, Now I owe you a drink. Thank you very much sir.

Ok, I am considering one of these contraptions.



HoustonPerson,

I bought a DTVPal about a month ago, hoping to replace my Sony DHG with it. After playing with it, I've decided to continue using my Sony until it dies. I'll just use the DTVPal as a second (and third) tuner to record shows that overlap. I was aware before I bought it of some of the complaints that people had with it. Although the TVGOS gets up and running faster than the Sony, it really leaves a lot to be desired. I have six channels (three are sub channels) that show "no information" on the Pal. those same channels have eight days of data on the Sony. One of those channels missing TVGOS data is my CBS station, which is my host channel.

Mark

HoustonPerson,

I bought a DTVPal about a month ago, hoping to replace my Sony DHG with it. After playing with it, I've decided to continue using my Sony until it dies. I'll just use the DTVPal as a second (and third) tuner to record shows that overlap. I was aware before I bought it of some of the complaints that people had with it. Although the TVGOS gets up and running faster than the Sony, it really leaves a lot to be desired. I have six channels (three are sub channels) that show "no information" on the Pal. those same channels have eight days of data on the Sony. One of those channels missing TVGOS data is my CBS station, which is my host channel.

Mark
There is a trick you can try for the NO information. After you go to the guide and see what stations say no info. Go back to View tv and go to that station. Then hit guide again. Should come up then.

It works for us. So if it is channel 2 (for example. Go to channel 2 then hit guide again. It forces the info to load.

That trick only brings up the PSIP info, not TVGOS.

But if the box is not able to "pixel match" (no overscan for 1080), then that would be a deal killer for me.

Deal killer here is not pic qualtiy, but reliability of the product. If you have great reception and only need OTA, then this may barely work for you. back to back programming on multiple channels, locks ups, and DST changes will all mess up your recordings.
Other devices are available, that might suit your needs better if you are that concerned about video matching quality.

That trick only brings up the PSIP info, not TVGOS.

12 to 48 hours of guide is better then NO info

12 to 48 hours of guide is better then NO info
Absolutely. :cool:

12 to 48 hours of guide is better then NO info

True, but I prefer 8 days of guide data which my Sony gives me consistently. I'm sure if the DTVPal was my first DVR it would be pretty cool, but after using the Sony for 4 years, I immediately miss its features when I try to use the DTVPal.

Mark

I'm holding in my hands unopened CM-7000PAL; if you have questions - I'll be glad to answer.

I'm holding in my hands unopened CM7000-PAL; if you have questions - I'll be glad to answer.

Can you open it? Are there any differences to the Dishpal dvr?

OR

Same box?


Also why would you spend over $350 for a $199 box?

I can make pictures...

Also why would you spend over $350 for a $199 box? - Perhaps I've a high level curiosity in my blood. ;)

I can make pictures...

Great much appreciated. Can you also tell us if there is any difference to the Dishpal DVR.?

I'll postpone unpacking and picturing - too late for tonight, lets make it tomorrow.

Bottom line, I could tell no difference in picture quality between the two units with the same OTA antenna source. (This on a 720p TV and 100" 720p projector...output on both set to 720p)Even on the 480i channels?

That's where you can see really a difference between my Sony and my TiVo HD. The TiVo is OK, but the Sony is better.

True, but I prefer 8 days of guide data which my Sony gives me consistently. I'm sure if the DTVPal was my first DVR it would be pretty cool, but after using the Sony for 4 years, I immediately miss its features when I try to use the DTVPal.Yeah - like I've always said, the Sony DVR is the best piece of electronics gear that I've ever owned.

Mabuttra and Rammitinski, yes that is exactly where I am coming from.

Mark you hit the nail on the head. I would like to add “two” more recording channels in my set up for a total of "three". And you have really answered my questions regarding the “quality” I am used to in the Sony. That is extremely hard to give up. After reading all the post(s) this morning I am inclined to just get another Sony, which only gives me "one" more tuner.

You wouldn’t happen to have (or anybody), the DVR hook-up to a 1080p panel with pixel mapping would you? Like a Panasonic with HD-Size 2 option or any other panel that provides for pixel mapping on a 1080i source? If it cannot match the Sony on that feature, then I will not consider it any further. I already know it messes around with the 720 source which I do not like, because we do record a lot of FOX stuff and some ABC stuff.

I've owned both the DTVPal DVR and the Sony DHG-HDD250. If you display doesn't overscan, this machine won't do it for you. When I had mine hooked to the projector, I could still see the VBI lines of some SD analog shows that the local broadcaster simply upconverted to 1080i.

Bottom line, I could tell no difference in picture quality between the two units with the same OTA antenna source. (This on a 720p TV and 100" 720p projector...output on both set to 720p)

Thanks, see my post just above.

To be more specific I am trying to locate someone with a “fixed” 1080p panel (plasma or LCD), that has “selectable” pixel mapping (Like the Panasonic HD Size 2), and has confirmed the DTVPal will not overscan on a 1080i source to that pixel mapping 1080p panel.

Well, I completed my DIY antenna and cable run to the attic and now have my Craigslist DTV Pal up and running. I've been using it for about a week and I'm very pleased. It's whisper quiet compared to my Directv hd-dvr. I actually find the PQ is better than Directv. If it only works for 2 months then I've broken even with Directv.

Directv has been canceled with extreme prejudice.

I LOVE stickin' it to tha Man!

I'm holding in my hands unopened CM7000-PAL; if you have questions - I'll be glad to answer.

I'm wondering if the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR has the card slot and card in the front of it like the Dish version has. From the pictures I've seen thus far I can't tell if it does or not.

I'd also like to know what it shows for the firmware version when you bring up the system info screen from your remote. I'm wondering if they are using the same numbering system (i.e. F208) like the Dish version or if they have their own unique numbering system. Lastly, what does it show on that same screen for the Internet Address (Dish version shows dtvpal.com)?

Even on the 480i channels?

That's where you can see really a difference between my Sony and my TiVo HD. The TiVo is OK, but the Sony is better.

The only 480i channels I get are 24/7 weather channels, so I don't really watch them much. When I had the Sony, there were only weather 480i channels then, so I really can't compare.

Yeah - like I've always said, the Sony DVR is the best piece of electronics gear that I've ever owned.

Just curious...any idea why was the Sony DVR you're talking about discontinued?

I'm wondering if the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR has the card slot and card in the front of it like the Dish version has. From the pictures I've seen thus far I can't tell if it does or not.

I'd also like to know what it shows for the firmware version when you bring up the system info screen from your remote. I'm wondering if they are using the same numbering system (i.e. F208) like the Dish version or if they have their own unique numbering system. Lastly, what does it show on that same screen for the Internet Address (Dish version shows dtvpal.com)?

Without opening it, I can tell - it is dish DVR, on a label outside you can see all the Receiver CAID and SC CAID as regular DTVPAL DVR.

Opening the box ...
On second picture you can see a smart card too.

One post allow to attach only 5 pictures ... So, one more for exterior view. :)

Well, I completed my DIY antenna and cable run to the attic and now have my Craigslist DTV Pal up and running. I've been using it for about a week and I'm very pleased. It's whisper quiet compared to my Directv hd-dvr. I actually find the PQ is better than Directv. If it only works for 2 months then I've broken even with Directv.

Directv has been canceled with extreme prejudice.

I LOVE stickin' it to tha Man!The picture quality of OTA TV is, and always will be, vastly superior to subscription services. OTA is the original bitstream as it leaves the station (as good as it's ever going to be), while cable, satellite, and FIOS have only one goal - to cram as many channels as possible (so they can charge you for them) into as little bandwidth as possible (so they can sell other services over the same medium), thus the original bitstream gets uncompressed and then recompressed at a lower bit rate. Isn't it obvious that something that you pay for should be inferior to something that's free?

Just curious...any idea why was the Sony DVR you're talking about discontinued?

I never owned one but from what I have read they were very well-made/high-quality units. One thing that I believe lead to their demise was the MSRP which ranged from $800 for the 250GB unit to $1,000 for the 500GB unit. I don't believe the majority of OTA viewers who wanted to record HD were willing to spend that amount of money. A lot of people buying electronics look for the cheapest price and unfortunately don't give much thought to the quality of the build or components inside. IMHO the Sony units had a limited market based on their MSRPs at the time.

If bfdtv want to add CM-7000PAL pictures to the first page he could use my collection of screen shots. It's too big to post by myself.

I did attempt to update SW, but it running current.

For particular question I will post a couple pictures, for now it's startup screen and System Info:

Now we know it has a different firmware than the Pal DVR - F400. Since its not F109 or something close to that, I'm afraid that it won't be compatible with the Pal. Thanks for posting!

If someone brave enough, he could DL CM FW to flash drive and could try update his DTVPal DVR. Not sure if there is any advantage.

If someone brave enough, he could DL CM FW to flash drive and could try update his DTVPal DVR. Not sure if there is any advantage.

Unfortunately that experiment is not possible yet because Channel Master has not posted the firmware at the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR Support Page (http://www.channelmaster.com/product-overview.php?proID=144&catID=45). They probably won't post firmware there for download to a flash drive until there is an update available (assuming there will be future updates). Dish never posted the original version of their firmware, F201, on their website and only started posting firmware for download when F202 (http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/TR50_F202_06UC00.upd) (and later F206 (http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/TR50_F206_0DUC00.upd), F207 (http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/TR50_F207_0GUC00.upd) and F208 (http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/TR50_F208_0HUC00.upd)) was available.

There is other way - read CM flash and reprogram your PAL DVR. ;).
A couple more pictures - inside it is the same DTVpal DVR:

Isn't it obvious that something that you pay for should be inferior to something that's free?

In theory, I knew that ota would be better. I was surprised that I could tell a difference.

CM-7000PAL Disk file system still the same:

Now we know it has a different firmware than the Pal DVR - F400. Since its not F109 or something close to that, I'm afraid that it won't be compatible with the Pal. Thanks for posting!
It looks like it is the Same version of Firmware f208. They just changed the number so it is not compatible. I am sure some Genius will figure out how to make it work:D

CM-7000PAL Disk file system still the same:

First off ty for all the pictures. We all know it takes work.

I was suprised to see the echostar lable on the bottom of the CM box. Means to me that Dish is making this for Chanelmaster.

In my business world. We call this Private Label.

It looks like it is the Same version of Firmware f208. They just changed the number so it is not compatible. I am sure some Genius will figure out how to make it work:D
I don't recall such HDMI Diagnostics in DTVpal:

First off ty for all the pictures. We all know it takes work.

I was suprised to see the echostar lable on the bottom of the CM box. Means to me that Dish is making this for Chanelmaster.

In my business world. We call this Private Label.
Sorry for that confusing picture, that was a smart card - I put it there to show it clearly.

I don't recall such HDMI Diagnostics in DTVpal:

Is this HDMI Diagnostics screen the only difference you are seeing? Does the guide look the same? Or different color.

Any other differences?

Is this HDMI Diagnostics screen the only difference you are seeing? Does the guide look the same? Or different color.

Any other differences?
Check whole collection - URL posted above (9613).

Other tidbits:
- smart card ID from DTVpal DVR is S19 9505 9xxx xx,from CM-700PAL is S19 9505 8xxx xx;
- front logo is the same with "G1" and radio tower (instead of a name "G3" and sat logo on dish DVR card)
- connected digital camera, Apple mouse, USB external drive - each time it's show Manufacturer info, but no MMedia support, no mouse use

I am no DVR pro. The only real difference I see with the pictures is the color scheme.

I could be wrong?

I am no DVR pro. The only real difference I see with the pictures is the color scheme.

I could be wrong?
Be a pro ;) - do compare CM pictures with pictures on first page of the thread.

Be a pro ;) - do compare CM pictures with pictures on first page of the thread.

I did. What are you saying I am missing?

I did. What are you saying I am missing?

No, I feel your comment wasn't conclusive. So,you did not find any real difference between F208 and F400 screen pictures?

No, I feel your comment wasn't conclusive. So,you did not find any real difference between F208 and F400 screen pictures?
Color scheme difference only. If I am missing something. I wish you just come out and say it. It would be much appreciated.

I rather be corrected then wrong/

Color scheme difference only. If I am missing something. I wish you just come out and say it. It would be much appreciated.

I rather be corrected then wrong/
I didn't have breakfast while play with the box ... Hope, you guys will make the compare.

I never owned one but from what I have read they were very well-made/high-quality units. One thing that I believe lead to their demise was the MSRP which ranged from $800 for the 250GB unit to $1,000 for the 500GB unit.Yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell. Also, zero marketing and before it's time. For cable, it was much easier and cheaper to just rent their equipment, and it was awful expensive to just use OTA.

I didn't have breakfast while play with the box ... Hope, you guys will make the compare.

You said my comment wasn't conclusive. Yet, you will not explain how.

In my opinion I see no real difference. Besides color difference. Certainly Not worth the $200 more price difference. I wish it was though. I wish they would make changes that justify's the price increase.


I do thank you for all the pictures and work you did.


I do welcome someone else to take a look and explain where I am wrong.

Yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell. Also, zero marketing and before it's time. For cable, it was much easier and cheaper to just rent their equipment, and it was awful expensive to just use OTA.

Wouldn't be more appropriate take you sidetracking to other thread ?
:backtotop

You said my comment wasn't conclusive. Yet, you will not explain how.


I did say "I feel ..." - perhaps not to much to find. I'm not criticizing you.

Wouldn't be more appropriate take you sidetracking to other thread ?
:backtotopDon't get your panties all in a bunch. Someone asked me something, and I answered. The threads not in any imminent danger of being hijacked or anything.

I did say "I feel ..." - perhaps not to much to find. I'm not criticizing you.

We are on the same page. Sometimes writing does not show intent.

No offense taken.

In fact I said it twice and will say it again. THANKS to you and your hard work. We have pictures of a new box. Your time and work is much appreciated. I am sure many here will thank you.

You never did answer me on why you bought this? Just curious if it was different? I mean why pay $170 to $200 more for the same box?

Did you want to be first on the block with one?


Also I am not criticizing. Just curious on why?

Would ANYONE have the Sears locator number for the Dishpal DVR. This is the in-house number that only Sears would use. OK, inquiring minds want to know. How do you use this? Go into a Sears store?

BTW - I did that this morning at the Alexandria, VA (Landmark Mall) Sears. They had 5 DTVPal DVRs on the shelf for $199.

OK, inquiring minds want to know. How do you use this? Go into a Sears store?

BTW - I did that this morning at the Alexandria, VA (Landmark Mall) Sears. They had 5 DTVPal DVRs on the shelf for $199.

Ok I will be more clear and update the story,

Went to a sears yesterday. They had nothing on the shelves. I asked them to check their computer. They said in-house computer needed an item number. I did not have it at the time. I still say they have some in the back room.

Today went to another Sears they had 2 for $199. I asked about $150 or $169 from Phoenix, AR He was a real nice guy he called 1 store for me. At random. The store in Phoenix said it was $199 also.

So I have no Idea where that other poster got his info.

OK, inquiring minds want to know. How do you use this? Go into a Sears store?

Information contained in this thread in Post #9336 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18576825&postcount=9336) (05-03-2010), Post #9522 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18676080&postcount=9522) (05-23-2010) and Post #9525 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18680049&postcount=9525) (05-24-2010) should answer your question.

Is the 20% deal off at KMart.com now? I'd totally jump at the chance for 20% off. Bummer. I thought it was good through Sunday. It must have been a fluke on Friday.

Is the 20% deal off at KMart.com now? I'd totally jump at the chance for 20% off. Bummer. I thought it was good through Sunday. It must have been a fluke on Friday.

The lowest price I see from Kmart was yesterday at $239. Why not go to sears for $199? Same box

In my opinion I see no real difference. Besides color difference. Certainly Not worth the $200 more price difference. I wish it was though. I wish they would make changes that justify's the price increase.Not $200 more. Don't forget the retail price of this box was $300 in Sears before they started dumping it. The CM-7000 is only ~$60 more when bought from a number of on-line dealers other than CM.

I'd love to get one at Sears, but I doubt my local store has any (they are terrible at having anything in stock). I might give them a call and see. I'll do anything to avoid having to go to the mall. ;)

I'd love to get one at Sears, but I doubt my local store has any (they are terrible at having anything in stock). I might give them a call and see. I'll do anything to avoid having to go to the mall. ;)

Call more then one and give this info



DTVPAL DVR
Sears item # 57709

Out of 4 stores I tried 3 had them:D

Not $200 more. Don't forget the retail price of this box was $300 in Sears before they started dumping it. The CM-7000 is only ~$60 more when bought from a number of on-line dealers other than CM.

How much is shipping?

I don't recall such HDMI Diagnostics in DTVpal:

I have both screens in my DTV Pal with F208
It's in (menu 3-2-6)

I have both screens in my DTV Pal with F208
It's in (menu 3-2-6)

Looks like CM begin its life with renamed FW F208->F400 and has no new features.

And this is a surprise?

Looks like CM begin its life with renamed FW F208->F400 and has no new features.

Too bad they never took advantage of the smart card feature. That would make a BIG difference

Also they changed the number so further updates will not be compatible with dishpal. imo

It is $348 and free shipping to store at Walmart

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Antenna-HD-DVR/13968952

You know what it's said a picture is worth. . .

Their decimal is in a different position from yours--at least now, anyway.

It is $348 and free shipping to store at Walmart

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Antenna-HD-DVR/13968952

The lowest price that I'm seeing today for the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR is from DataVision Computer Video. They are one of the Amazon.com Featured Merchants (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new). Their price today is $335.20 plus $5.50 shipping. That's about 16% off of the MSRP of $399.99. The prices from all of the merchants there seem to change daily but one of the merchants in that list usually has the lowest price available at any given time (when compared to all other prices that I have been able to find on the internet). The bottom line is if you are looking for the lowest total price start your shopping there.

big thanks to PSmith on the preview. from first glance, the changes including the firmware appear to be mostly cosmetic. given the lack of significant developement and added features for the original DTVPal DVR, I'd be surprised to see much of change for this unit but guess we'll see. Predictions for how long it takes someone to dump the CM firmware to flash the Dish version? ;)

big thanks to PSmith on the preview. from first glance, the changes including the firmware appear to be mostly cosmetic. given the lack of significant developement and added features for the original DTVPal DVR, I'd be surprised to see much of change for this unit but guess we'll see. Predictions for how long it takes someone to dump the CM firmware to flash the Dish version? ;)
I would say it less then one hour job, but I don't see how you could convince someone to do that.
Why ? What is your desire ?
As we saw, CM F400 is the same as F208.

I would say it less then one hour job, but I don't see how you could convince someone to do that.
Why ? What is your desire ?
As we saw, CM F400 is the same as F208.

why do people climb mountains? I have no interest in doing it but someone probably will...

I see ... I prefer to spend time hiking or relaxing on a beach... And I saw both DVRs.
Perhaps someone living in that places with flaky TVGOS stream could test CM to see if internal algorithms are better.

It will be interesting to see what happens going forward. If a firmware update is issued for the CM, will the Dish box get one as well and will the two continue to have the same feature set? Lots of great suggestions have been made in the FAQ which will probably never be incorporated. I've always wanted PIG and external USB support but I'm not optimistic. For it to have greater consumer appeal, CM would need to understand the value in adding new features including making use of the ethernet port.

I guess we shouldn't assume that F400 is the same as F108, since there were firmware updates prior to F108 that didn't change anything cosmetically, but greatly increased the stability of the dvr. Hopefully CM owners will eventually chime in when they start having problems, or at least sing the praises if the CM is rock solid. That would then create the incentive to somehow get F400 on a F108 unit.

I never owned one but from what I have read they were very well-made/high-quality units. One thing that I believe lead to their demise was the MSRP which ranged from $800 for the 250GB unit to $1,000 for the 500GB unit. I don't believe the majority of OTA viewers who wanted to record HD were willing to spend that amount of money. A lot of people buying electronics look for the cheapest price and unfortunately don't give much thought to the quality of the build or components inside. IMHO the Sony units had a limited market based on their MSRPs at the time.

I've got two of these. They are somewhat buggy in that you have to nurse them sometimes, much of which is due to the total dependence on TV Guide On Screen for schedules and clock setting. They were way ahead of their time...there was little ATSC when they first came out. The prices were also early adopter. I got them when Sony was blowing them out for $250. I bought two of the HDD 250s, and bought the extended warranty, based on the forums I'd read. Sure enough, I went through four of them to get two that worked well, and one of those went back a year later (under warranty) but Sony's service center did a good job taking care of me.

I want to know why they never learned from these mistakes and came out with a new one. I've got one sitting next to my Dish box, set up for all OTA shows (one bonus is that it will record/playback native OTA). I'm quite happy with the Sony box. The second is feeding a flatscreen Trintron which while 480i looks darn good with the downscaled HD picture fed by RGB inputs. The Tuner in the sony is first generation so it does not work as well as the built in tuner in the Panasonic or even the one in the Dish box.

On the worldwide market, there are other boxes like this sold in Japan and elsewhere. Even a blu ray burner, too. But, we Americans can't have that-or maybe I'm just annoyed that Hulu is blocked at my PS 3.

I go with the conspiracy theory....If they can already sell every DVR they can make to cable companies or Satellite folks, why go retail....also, the big content providers still have a handle on this, which is probably why the Sony is dependant upon the time signal from TVGOS.

It is better made than the Dish DVR (VIP 612) that locks up consistently while watching OTA, and the whole box resets.

The Tuner in the sony is first generation...Fourth generation - not first.

Amazon.com has set up pages for Customer Reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Digital-Recorder/product-reviews/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) and Customer Discussions (http://www.amazon.com/post-warranty-parts-service-available/forum/Fx38HP0IJ240SVE/Tx2H306LFU23SHX/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_rt_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B0033TJPJW) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR.

Amazon.com has set up pages for Customer Reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Digital-Recorder/product-reviews/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) and Customer Discussions (http://www.amazon.com/post-warranty-parts-service-available/forum/Fx38HP0IJ240SVE/Tx2H306LFU23SHX/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_rt_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B0033TJPJW) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR.

One person writing about dish lol. Send in the pissed off people:rolleyes:

CM-7000PAL Disk file system still the same:
What software your are using?
Can you see the video data files and copy them out?

As the Kelson post above has noted - that is not correct. Since a 720 source must go threw a ton of processing for 1080i output is one issue.

The other issue is the "overscan" recording 1080 processing for 1080 output. I have seen a lot of DVRs mess this up badly.

Okay. I did not perform the 720 test but I did perform the 1080 test. I photographed a 1080i OTA picture on my TV while I was recording the same thing on the DVR. Then I played back the recording and photographed the same weather graphic on the TV. I brought the two images into Photoshop, overlaid them with no scaling, set the Layer mode to Difference, and took another photo. The result shows essentially perfect cancellation. Any imperfect cancellation is is due to some portions of the graphic being animated such as the suns, rain drops, and ocean waves. The Lat/Lon lines align perfectly. There is no overscan in this mode. I've attached the 3 images.

Chuck

It's posted right at the Sears Outlet website (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly): Sears item # 57709

You may also need department number if you call sears. It's 57.
Don't know if this was posted here yet but you can buy an item at one Sears for its current price for pickup at another store that has stock (but at a higher or unknown price). That's how I got the last two in my area for $150 each.

Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zsLrvbUcLTc/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31) has lowered their price on the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR from $399.99 to $349.99 with free shipping included. They have also posted their Hands-On Research (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31&tab=detailed_info#tabs) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR.

Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zsLrvbUcLTc/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31) has lowered their price on the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR from $399.99 to $349.99 with free shipping included. They have also posted their Hands-On Research (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31&tab=detailed_info#tabs) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR.

Funny, how they blindly stick with manufacturer's requirement:
"Note: The access card inserted into the CM-7000PAL should remain installed".
Absolute BS !

Funny, how they blindly stick with manufacturer's requirement:
"Note: The access card inserted into the CM-7000PAL should remain installed".
Absolute BS !

Why BS? Removing the card could easily result in it being lost or damaged. Leaving it where the manufacturer installed it seems like the most prudent course of action should it ever be required.

Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zsLrvbUcLTc/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31) has lowered their price on the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR from $399.99 to $349.99 with free shipping included. They have also posted their Hands-On Research (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6597000PAL/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL.html?tp=31&tab=detailed_info#tabs) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR.Nice to see they don't promise or hint at any additional functionality for the USB port or ethernet jack other than as a means to update the firmware.

it would be nice to use the usb for a wifi adapter

Has no functionality at the moment and is useless. So I agree with P Smith. Why have something sticking out of the PalDVR that has no reason to exist other than being a curiosity piece and something you can snag yourself on?

Just pul it out and keep it with you PALDVR documentation.

Has no functionality at the moment and is useless. So I agree with P Smith. Why have something sticking out of the PalDVR that has no reason to exist other than being a curiosity piece and something you can snag yourself on?
Even if it were functional, it would require a high speed connection - dialup just won't cut it so why have it there collecting dust?

Even if it were functional, it would require a high speed connection - dialup just won't cut it so why have it there collecting dust?

Maybe they thought they would sell many many units. Then they would start a new pay service (movies) That would use the card and internet conection

Maybe they thought they would sell many many units. Then they would start a new pay service (movies) That would use the card and internet conection

With a heads-up operation, they could have been ahead of the curve on Video on Demand. They could have been ahead of Netflix, vudu et al. The hardware was there. Who knows? Something like that may yet happen, especially if the ChannelMaster version of this catches on.

Argh! I wish the Sears stores in my area had the DTVpal DVR in stock. There is not a one to be found. I just cannot force myself to pay more than $199 for the unit. Why in the world is Kmart charging $100 more the same thing? Here's to hoping that the Channel Master will come down in price.

Argh! I wish the Sears stores in my area had the DTVpal DVR in stock. There is not a one to be found. I just cannot force myself to pay more than $199 for the unit. Why in the world is Kmart charging $100 more the same thing? Here's to hoping that the Channel Master will come down in price.

Sears Outlet (http://www.searsoutlet.com/DTVPAL-DVR/d/product_details.jsp?stxt=DTVPal&md=srh1_md&pn=1&ps=10&pid=31239&mode=buyUsedOnly) right now is showing a price range for the Dish DTVPal DVR of $119.93-$209.93. You have to be "lucky" to find stock in your area when you do your search. Their inventory and price range changes frequently from what I have observed.

The lowest price today (that I've found) for the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR is $332.45 (plus $6.88 shipping) from Electronica Direct which is one of the Amazon.com Featured Merchants (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0033TJPJW/ref=dp_olp_new_map?ie=UTF8&condition=new). BTW, this price is so low that they are not allowed to display it until you add the DVR to your cart.

LED, Mode, Power Consumption:

* 'Green', 'ON' (Not recording), ~22.5 W / ~37 VA
* 'Green & Red', 'ON' while also 'Recording' , ~22.5 W / ~37 VA
* 'Red', 'Recording' while in 'Standby', ~22.5 W / ~37 VA
* 'Off', 'Standby' without any other activity, ~19.5 W / ~32 VA (see Note 1 below)
* 'Off', 'Standby' with background activity, ~22.0 W / ~36 VA (see Note 2 below)

Notes:

1. With a Western Digital model WD10EVDS 1 TB HDD installed in place of the factory supplied 250 GB
(WD2500AAVS) HDD, the Standby (without any other activity) power consumption is ~18.5 W / ~30VA.
The ~ 1 W power savings is due to the drive's IntelliPower mode when it reduces the drive's
rotational speed from 7200 RPM to 5400 RPM.

2. The background activity in Standby can be due to downloading TV Guide 'TVGOS' data (but not PSIP
data downloads), scanning for new channels (yes, this occurs in Standby), etc.

Note: With background HDD activity the power consumption is also ~22 Watts with the 1 TB drive.

3. The only way for the DVR to be fully OFF (Not drawing AC power) is for it to be unplugged.

Caution! Before un-plugging the DTVPal DVR, the DVR should be in Standby (Power Indicator OFF,
Not Recording) for at least 1 minute. Then pull the AC power plug straight out quickly
in single motion (to limit power transients into the DVR due to intermittent arcing at
the plug). Then wait 30 seconds (for Read/Write Head to Park) before moving the DVR.

4. The DTVPal DVR's AC input Power Factor is ~ 0.61 PF.

4. The DTVPal DVR's AC input Power Factor is ~ 0.61 PF.

Thanks for info. Out of curiosity, where did you get the PF? Did you find data on it or do you have a meter that can measure phase difference between voltage and current?

Thanks again.

If there's anyone on this thread in the Springfield Missouri area that owns a Pal DVR I have a question.

Thanks for info. Out of curiosity, where did you get the PF? Did you find data on it or do you have a meter that can measure phase difference between voltage and current?

Thanks again.

http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Also check the quality of your power by monitoring Voltage, Line Frequency, and Power Factor.

I just got my Pal hooked up today. Boy it sure does go off and on alot to update guide. I "know" it is set up for Dolby Digital not the pcm but all I get on my Pioneer 1018 is stereo when I go to auto surround. My old Sony dvr worked for DD and my Sony BR does DD. What is set up wrong? Nothing changed on my receiver..HELP ?

I just got my Pal hooked up today. Boy it sure does go off and on alot to update guide.(...)
Disable Updates in the options menu.

Disable Updates in the options menu.
It still goes off then on for updates guide. Is it because I've only had it on for 3 hours? Still only audio is stereo, no DD....

It still goes off then on for updates guide. Is it because I've only had it on for 3 hours? Still only audio is stereo, no DD....
The off/on cycle is not normal. Maybe double check the power cord that its not loose.

The off/on cycle is not normal. Maybe double check the power cord that its not loose.
Power cord good and tight. No DD5.1 yet either.

Power cord good and tight. No DD5.1 yet either.
What, exactly is the DVR doing? With it on, is it rebooting frequently?
If so, how often?
Also, when it reboots, do you see both the red and green lights on while it restarts?

It still goes off then on for updates guide. Is it because I've only had it on for 3 hours? Still only audio is stereo, no DD....

How do you have the audio connected? optical? Their is a dolby digital setup in the system setup menus for that. I don't remember what the options are exactly but it let's you select DD 5.1 or stereo to be output from the optical connection.

Regards the on - off cycling, have you updated to the latest F208 firmware? It has greatly reduced or eliminated that issue.

What, exactly is the DVR doing? With it on, is it rebooting frequently?
If so, how often?
Also, when it reboots, do you see both the red and green lights on while it restarts?
I see both red and green. Then sometimes just the green. I can't find anywhere what the red or green lights are for. Maybe it's just rebooting on/off about every few {5}min.

I see both red and green. Then sometimes just the green. I can't find anywhere what the red or green lights are for. Maybe it's just rebooting on/off about every few {5}min.
See dvdchance's post above.

I see both red and green. Then sometimes just the green. I can't find anywhere what the red or green lights are for. Maybe it's just rebooting on/off about every few {5}min.

Green on - unit is on and sending output
Red on - unit is recording
Both off - unit is in standby if plugged in with no output and not recording.

How do you have the audio connected? optical? Their is a dolby digital setup in the system setup menus for that. I don't remember what the options are exactly but it let's you select DD 5.1 or stereo to be output from the optical connection.

Regards the on - off cycling, have you updated to the latest F208 firmware? It has greatly reduced or eliminated that issue.
It's only HDMI,nothing else. I did not try a firmware up date yet. But this is a new Channelmaster dvr. I'll check what firmware update it is.It won't stay on long enough after reboot to tell what update it has...

Green on - unit is on and sending output
Red on - unit is recording
Both off - unit is in standby if plugged in with no output and not recording.
And if both on when its not recording the unit is rebooting.

It's only HDMI,nothing else. I did not try a firmware up date yet. But this is a new Channelmaster dvr. I'll check what firmware update it is.It won't stay on long enough after reboot to tell what update it has...

As an experiment I would try hooking up the DVR via RF, composite or component connections to rule out the HDMI connection as causing your reboots. If you try another connection and your reboots disappear, you have some sort of incompatibility issue with your HDMI connection (and the connected device) that the DVR doesn't like and it is causing it to reboot.

You said you have the Channel Master version so you should have the latest firmware already. If updates are disabled (like already suggested) and the HDMI connection is ruled out by the experiment above, I would contact Channel Master for support. Let us know what they do for you if you do need to contact them.

As an experiment I would try hooking up the DVR via RF, composite or component connections to rule out the HDMI connection as causing your reboots. If you try another connection and your reboots disappear, you have some sort of incompatibility issue with your HDMI connection (and the connected device) that the DVR doesn't like and it is causing it to reboot.

You said you have the Channel Master version so you should have the latest firmware already. If updates are disabled (like already suggested) and the HDMI connection is ruled out by the experiment above, I would contact Channel Master for support. Let us know what they do for you if you do need to contact them.
Still nothing. Now it turned off with no lights on but a frozen screen of the nightly news. Should I return it? Get tivo? Or try another from amazonn. I paid 1 day delivery too at $18,boy ....

Still nothing. Now it turned off with no lights on but a frozen screen of the nightly news. Should I return it? Get tivo? Or try another from amazonn. I paid 1 day delivery too at $18,boy ....
Try turning it on.

Still nothing. Now it turned off with no lights on but a frozen screen of the nightly news. Should I return it? Get tivo? Or try another from amazonn. I paid 1 day delivery too at $18,boy ....

Have you tried unplugging it for a few minutes and then plugging it back in and starting over that way? That sometimes helps with clearing up many problems. If that doesn't help I would contact Channel Master and see how well they stand behind this brand-new product. Please report back as I'm sure others on this thread would like to hear the results of any contact that you have with Channel Master.

Have you tried unplugging it for a few minutes and then plugging it back in and starting over that way? That sometimes helps with clearing up many problems. If that doesn't help I would contact Channel Master and see how well they stand behind this brand-new product. Please report back as I'm sure others on this thread would like to hear the results of any contact that you have with Channel Master.
I've tried all of the above. Emailed adam long @channelmaster and I told him all of the above too. His advice is the same as all here. He says might have a problem if it reboots every 3-4 min. Is that help?

I've tried all of the above. Emailed adam long @channelmaster and I told him all of the above too. His advice is the same as all here. He says might have a problem if it reboots every 3-4 min. Is that help?
Now he said he will pass it along to engineering.. hope it helps. If I only didn't pay for 1 day shipping.:mad::eek:

Sounds like its time to get a replacement.

What is your antenna situation like? A weak antenna signal "MAY" cause problems like this.

Still nothing. Now it turned off with no lights on but a frozen screen of the nightly news. Should I return it? Get tivo? Or try another from amazonn. I paid 1 day delivery too at $18,boy ....

Wow this is the CM box? Looks like nothing was changed from DISH.

I would RETURN IT. imo

What is your antenna situation like? A weak antenna signal "MAY" cause problems like this.
Wanab, to add to jrn23's comment, have you tried the solution to known issue #5 from the first post on page one: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A6

Now he said he will pass it along to engineering.. hope it helps. If I only didn't pay for 1 day shipping.:mad::eek:

One more thing to try. with early Firmware there was a problem with some week channels, that caused this type problem when it tried to load the guide info. to see if this is your problem, unplug the antenna. if this stops the rebooting you can get to the menu. then plug in the antenna, and disable any week channels. if you get a reboot while checking channels take note of that channel, and repeat the process of unplugging antenna, and disable that channel before selecting that channel again.

What is your antenna situation like? A weak antenna signal "MAY" cause problems like this.
My signal strength is 98%-100% when it is on ,not too often. I left it off over night and this AM still acting the same.

Walmart.com has added Customer Product Reviews (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-Antenna-HD-DVR/13968952?sourceid=1500000000000002994000&ci_src=16435691&ci_sku=13968952#ShortReviewTitleBar) of the Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR to their website. Their price remains at $348 with either free shipping to the store or $3.97 for standard shipping directly to you.

Wanab, to add to jrn23's comment, have you tried the solution to known issue #5 from the first post on page one: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A6
I did that to no avail. Also deleted weak channels. I kept the ones in the 97%-100% reception. K... has dish pal on line for about what I paid for this CM but have to wait ANOTHER 6 days.Are these pals worth it? Or do I have to come to the reality that the cable monopoly has gotcha..?

Here is an excerpt from the latest DTVPal review at Kmart-

"Due to a lack of useable products, we started off by trying the new TiVo Premiere. You're supposed to be able to use it with over the air antenna but they still charge you that monthly fee. The thing is so bogged down with ads and things it wants to sell you that you don't even know where the channel guide is! Then the bootup takes like two hours and you need an internet connection or it doesn't "know" anything. What a mess! It was very uncool in more ways than one so we scrapped it. "


He didn't even mention TiVos stingy 90 day warranty.:D

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_105V0FREESTARDVRP?vName=Computers+&psid=FROOGLE&sName=Accessories&cName=Blu-ray&sid=KDx20070926x00003a#reviewsWrap

Re. Issues with DTVPal DVR, and probably also the Channel Master unit

1. Failure of Remote Control Operation:

WHERE THE DVR APPEARS TO BE LOCKED (no response to Remote) or HAS INTERMITTENT OPERATION.

A number of newer LCD and plasma TVs feature a 'Room Light' or 'Day-Night' Sensor function. The
Light Sensor circuits automatically control the TV's brightness based on the room's ambient light.
This can seriously affect operation of the DVR's Remote due to the IR energy the TV emits during its
Ambient Light 'Sample Period'.

If your TV has this capability, you should disable it in your TV settings to see if it corrects any
issues you are experiencing with your DVR.


2. If you have any problems completing a reboot after a software (firmware) update, you should perform
a "soft reset. You can perform a "soft reset" by holding down the remote's 'Power ON' button until
the reset starts (~10 Seconds).

3. Some users have reported that they have experienced random DVR reboots, and that disabling Updates
prevented it (Menu/Setup/Updates- set 'Enable/Disable Timer' to Disabled).

Note: I have not personally seen the Updates 'Enabled' mode cause a problem, and with it 'Disabled'
I receive all of the TV Guide updates, therefore I use the 'Disabled' setting as a safe guard
measure.

Note: I have not personally seen the Updates 'Enabled' mode cause a problem, and with it 'Disabled'
I receive all of the TV Guide updates, therefore I use the 'Disabled' setting as a safe guard measure.

That's because Updates have nothing to do with TV Guide updates (contrary to what it says in the manual). The Updates are for checking if there are any software updates only.

The Updates should be disabled, I found that if it is not, then it continuously is popping up a warning that the Ethernet is disconnected (which it is). Doesn't matter what the Start Time is set to (had it set for 1:00 am, but the warning pops up during any time of the day, morning, afternoon, evening). Perhaps this doesn't happen if the Ethernet was never connected and setup in the first place (I did to do software updates, and then disconnected it since I don't want unexpected updates without knowing what they do).

That's because Updates have nothing to do with TV Guide updates (contrary to what it says in the manual). The Updates are for checking if there are any software updates only.(...)
Absolutely correct.

That's because Updates have nothing to do with TV Guide updates (contrary to what it says in the manual). The Updates are for checking if there are any software updates only.(...)


Not absolutely correct. (here we go again ;) )

It is correct that the manual omits that this checks for software updates. But it is ALSO correct when it states it does a TVGOS (Tv Guide) update, as it forces a reboot and an attempt to reload TVGOS data. This of course, is not necessary as TVGOS data is always being updated. Nonetheless, the TVGOS is at least attempted to be updated with the setting on.

In any case, updates should be left off(disabled), because the rebooting is a nuisance and TVGOS date will still be kept up current.

I realize this isn't Windows, but I thought all 'computers' need to be rebooted from time to time...... Just to keep the file system clean. Seems like never rebooting might cause problems over time.

Thoughts?

I realize this isn't Windows, but I thought all 'computers' need to be rebooted from time to time...... Just to keep the file system clean. Seems like never rebooting might cause problems over time.

Thoughts?We have several heavily used Red Hat Linux systems at work that run 24/7 on a UPS and sometimes they go 6 months or more without a reboot, and then only because the A/C goes out or the roof leaks or something.

In theory an *appliance* should never NEED to be rebooted; but that's not to say that inexpensive products are engineered thoroughly enough to avoid that.

I did that to no avail. Also deleted weak channels. I kept the ones in the 97%-100% reception. K... has dish pal on line for about what I paid for this CM but have to wait ANOTHER 6 days.Are these pals worth it? Or do I have to come to the reality that the cable monopoly has gotcha..?

Sounds like you have tried all the work arounds, so your unit is broke, need to return it.

Not absolutely correct. (here we go again ;) )

It is correct that the manual omits that this checks for software updates. But it is ALSO correct when it states it does a TVGOS (Tv Guide) update, as it forces a reboot and an attempt to reload TVGOS data. This of course, is not necessary as TVGOS data is always being updated. Nonetheless, the TVGOS is at least attempted to be updated with the setting on.



No, the TVGOS is not continually being updated. It also is not downloaded at 1:00am. Here is the TVGOS listing download schedule:

2:01am
4:51am
7:16am
8:56am
11:01am
12:41pm
2:46pm
5:11pm

There is no 1:00am download, so rebooting the DVR at 1:00am would not get TVGOS listings (at least not until 2:01am).

Each download is 30 minutes long, and contains the entire eight days of listings, however it may take more than one download to fill in all eight days of data. The downloads repeat (they send the same data eight times a day) so your dvr has a better chance of getting today's data if the DTVPal is being used a lot. The DTVPal has the advantage that it has two tuners, and if one tuner is being used (you are watching TV, or recording a show), then the other tuner tunes to your host channel, and continues downloading TVGOS data.


In any case, updates should be left off(disabled), because the rebooting is a nuisance and TVGOS date will still be kept up current.

Yes, especially if you don't want it complaining because it can't download updates.

Mark

I have two DTVPal DVRs, an original from December 2008, and a recently purchased $199 Sears closeout. Both run F208, both have their original disks, both are on UPS, and neither is connected to the Internet. They are in different parts of the house, and are used/operated by different people. Both had manually set recurring timer events (M-F and weekly) and TV Guide set single timer events. Both have been rock solid.

Sometime on Thursday, 3 June, all the timer events on both units disappeared. I hypothesize that the timer events disappeared between 2:30 am (the last successful recording on one unit) and 11:30 am (the first missed recording on the other unit). I detected the error at about 10:00 pm, and recreated the timer events. Both machines appear to be operating nominally today.

The DTVPal's algorithm for purging single event timers is probably based on time-of-day, i.e., if a local station transmitted a bad time-of-day, you might lose them. But, I don't have an explanation for the disappearance of recurring event timers.

So, I'm left with what, poltergeist? :-)

Sherlockingly yours,

Arbie

If your power flicked off even for a second or two that could have caused it.

FWIW, I just found and purchased two units at a local Sears store for $149.99 each. They have one more. The marked price was $199.99 and I asked the clerk to check for the current price. The store is in Lacey, WA.

We have several heavily used Red Hat Linux systems at work that run 24/7 on a UPS and sometimes they go 6 months or more without a reboot, and then only because the A/C goes out or the roof leaks or something.

In theory an *appliance* should never NEED to be rebooted; but that's not to say that inexpensive products are engineered thoroughly enough to avoid that.

I agree, I have a TiVo on an UPS, and it just keeps on 'truckin'.

From what's been said about Echostar programmers on various threads. I would guess that the Pal might need an occasional reboot to set everything straight. Throw in a 3rd party, like TVGOS, that get their data from a 4th party, station engineers, who would rather the whole DVR thing go away (for the purposes of commercial revenue) .....It's a wonder the Pal's work as good as they do. Certain stations, have been mentioned, not providing accurate guide and clock data .....Could explain why some have 'fits' and some don't.
Who knows how 'bum' data is handled by the Pal's programming?

Still....can't beat a Pal for the money.

FWIW, I just found and purchased two units at a local Sears store for $149.99 each. They have one more. The marked price was $199.99 and I asked the clerk to check for the current price. The store is in Lacey, WA.

I just came back from my local Sears where I purchased one for $199 about 2 months back and I looked just for ha has to see if they still had some. They are now out of them.

If your power flicked off even for a second or two that could have caused it.
He said it was on a UPS.

might as well chime in

I bought a unit at Sears for $199.99 on April 11 and finally connected it May 31; it had F208 and mostly has behaved since then.

A couple mornings ago, though, it refused to leave RF passthrough mode.  It would give output again for a fraction of a second and then go back to RF passthrough.  Turning it off and on again didn't help, but unplugging and replugging did, and it's behaved itself since then.

Question: I like the display of the remaining time to the end of the recorded event during playback or to the current live-TV point during play from the buffer, but is there a way to get that screen while playing at 1x, without pausing, fast-forwarding, or rewinding?

Biggest peeve right now (but still only a peeve): my TV has a 1680x1050 display and will rescale any 1080i, 720p, or 480i/p content passed to it.  So as not to have two such rescalings, a native resolution mode would be ideal, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't have it.  So I prefer to set its output to match the resolution of the signal.  The peeve is that one has to go four levels into the menu system to do that (not counting that it requires confirming or won't happen, nor that the Menu button itself is so inconveniently placed and it's so easy to hit another button instead) and then after the change of output resolution it's several hits on the Cancel key to get back to watching the show.

might as well chime in

I bought a unit at Sears for $199.99 on April 11 and finally connected it May 31; it had F208 and mostly has behaved since then.

A couple mornings ago, though, it refused to leave RF passthrough mode.* It would give output again for a fraction of a second and then go back to RF passthrough.* Turning it off and on again didn't help, but unplugging and replugging did, and it's behaved itself since then.

Question: I like the display of the remaining time to the end of the recorded event during playback or to the current live-TV point during play from the buffer, but is there a way to get that screen while playing at 1x, without pausing, fast-forwarding, or rewinding?

Biggest peeve right now (but still only a peeve): my TV has a 1680x1050 display and will rescale any 1080i, 720p, or 480i/p content passed to it.* So as not to have two such rescalings, a native resolution mode would be ideal, but the DTVPal DVR doesn't have it.* So I prefer to set its output to match the resolution of the signal.* The peeve is that one has to go four levels into the menu system to do that (not counting that it requires confirming or won't happen, nor that the Menu button itself is so inconveniently placed and it's so easy to hit another button instead) and then after the change of output resolution it's several hits on the Cancel key to get back to watching the show.

Press the "View live TV" from anywhere. I just have my pl set to 1080 I and let my TV scale to 1080P.

Press the "View live TV" from anywhere. I just have my pl set to 1080 I and let my TV scale to 1080P.

You know I never asked this question. The DTVPAL has a button to change the size of the picture. CROP being one setting.

DOES THE DVR have the same button?

You know I never asked this question. The DTVPAL has a button to change the size of the picture. CROP being one setting.

DOES THE DVR have the same button?

Yes it has several settings for HD and SD. I use a partial crop / zoom now that my DTV Pal has been hooked up to the old tube TV :)

You know I never asked this question. The DTVPAL has a button to change the size of the picture. CROP being one setting.

DOES THE DVR have the same button?

the * button under the 7 button

The peeve is that one has to go four levels into the menu system to do that (not counting that it requires confirming or won't happen, nor that the Menu button itself is so inconveniently placed and it's so easy to hit another button instead) and then after the change of output resolution it's several hits on the Cancel key to get back to watching the show.

You may already know this, but you could buy a remote like a Harmony that allows macros to accomplish this. Set up one macro for 720p and one for 1080i and Bob's yer uncle, as they say. It will only take one button press for the seven or so commands.

Press the "View live TV" from anywhere. I just have my pl set to 1080 I and let my TV scale to 1080P.

Thanks for being willing to help, Frank, but that doesn't answer my question ("View Live TV" doesn't display the overlay I asked about) nor solve my peeve (it doesn't change the output resolution either).  Maybe you were replying to someone else's post and accidentally quoted mine instead?

You may already know this, but you could buy a remote like a Harmony that allows macros to accomplish this.

Maybe you can buy one, but they're very expensive, the DVR has sapped my electronics budget for a long time to come.  That's why I haven't already bought one and the situation remains a peeve.  Eventually I'll be familiar enough with the provided remote to hit the Menu button (what a horrible place to exile it) reliably in the dark and I'll get used to the key sequences after it for changing the resolution.

No, the TVGOS is not continually being updated. It also is not downloaded at 1:00am. Here is the TVGOS listing download schedule:

2:01am
4:51am
7:16am
8:56am
11:01am
12:41pm
2:46pm
5:11pm

There is no 1:00am download, so rebooting the DVR at 1:00am would not get TVGOS listings (at least not until 2:01am).

Each download is 30 minutes long, and contains the entire eight days of listings, however it may take more than one download to fill in all eight days of data. The downloads repeat (they send the same data eight times a day) so your dvr has a better chance of getting today's data if the DTVPal is being used a lot. The DTVPal has the advantage that it has two tuners, and if one tuner is being used (you are watching TV, or recording a show), then the other tuner tunes to your host channel, and continues downloading TVGOS data.

I get a full seven days worth of listings within ten minutes of resetting the dvr.

I get a full seven days worth of listings within ten minutes of resetting the dvr.
So do I. :cool:

I get a full seven days worth of listings within ten minutes of resetting the dvr.

Remember you wll get PSIP data quickly, but TV Guide listings take longer. Are you sure you get the Red TV Guide logo within 10 minutes after a reset? I'm thinking you are looking at the PSIP data, and assuming it is TV Guide data that goes out 8 days. Yesterday I reset mine at 9:05 am interrupting the 8:56 download, it then had to wait until the 11:01-11:31 download before I got the "TV Guide" logo, and "full" listings.

Picture 1 was taken just before the 11:01 download began (the DVR was reset almost two hours earlier). It shows there is no day eight data.

Picture 2 was taken a few minutes after the 11:01 download ended. Notice I now have the TV Guide logo. Look at how little information is actually filled in. That is as good as it gets for my DTVPal. Out of the nine channels shown, only three ever get TV Guide data.

Picture 3 shows what the data from my Sony DHG-HDD250 looks like, as you can see the TV Guide data is all there, the Pal just refuses to show it. I think I could get listings for two of the channels, if I could get Rovi to fix channel mapping problems with those two channels (CBS, and Fox), but as of yet they haven't responded to my last email.

Mark

I've had mine since Dec 2008, and it has never taken more than 7 or 8 minutes to acquire and fill in a full 7 plus days of TVGOS info after a restart.
And yes, I do know the difference between PSIP and TVGOS. :rolleyes:

Remember you wll get PSIP data quickly, but TV Guide listings take longer. Are you sure you get the Red TV Guide logo within 10 minutes after a reset? I'm thinking you are looking at the PSIP data, and assuming it is TV Guide data that goes out 8 days. Yesterday I reset mine at 9:05 am interrupting the 8:56 download, it then had to wait until the 11:01-11:31 download before I got the "TV Guide" logo, and "full" listings.

Picture 1 was taken just before the 11:01 download began (the DVR was reset almost two hours earlier). It shows there is no day eight data.

Picture 2 was taken a few minutes after the 11:01 download ended. Notice I now have the TV Guide logo. Look at how little information is actually filled in. That is as good as it gets for my DTVPal. Out of the nine channels shown, only three ever get TV Guide data.

Picture 3 shows what the data from my Sony DHG-HDD250 looks like, as you can see the TV Guide data is all there, the Pal just refuses to show it. I think I could get listings for two of the channels, if I could get Rovi to fix channel mapping problems with those two channels (CBS, and Fox), but as of yet they haven't responded to my last email.

Mark
I thought when TVguide does not have channel info the PAL USES PSIP.

Why does your show NO INFO? It should be atleast PSIP data

I thought when TVguide does not have channel info the PAL USES PSIP.

Why does your show NO INFO? It should be atleast PSIP data

Because it is showing the data for day eight (next Saturday). PSIP usually only has data for 24 hours if that.

Mark

I've had mine since Dec 2008, and it has never taken more than 7 or 8 minutes to acquire and fill in a full 7 plus days of TVGOS info after a restart.
And yes, I do know the difference between PSIP and TVGOS. :rolleyes:

I should have been more specific. When I said reset, I meant Factory Defaults from the System Setup menu. I don't believe a restart clears the TVGOS data.

Mark

Because it is showing the data for day eight (next Saturday). PSIP usually only has data for 24 hours if that.

Mark

Yes but your said NO info on every channel?

So here in Connecticut we had an extremely windy day today and the power cut out twice over a span of 15 seconds. After it rebooted i was surprised to find that the hard disk was completely empty. I checked all the other custom settings I placed and they were still intact. Then I checked hard disk diagnostics and found that there were no reported errors and everything was completely fine. My theory to what happened is this. During the reboot cycle after the first power outage there was an interruption from the second power outage and something happened. What exactly happened I have no idea but maybe it was some sort of unexpected glitch or bug. I rechecked the dvr to make sure everything else worked fine and found nothing wrong. By the way I was an early adopter of this dvr and had it since early 2009. There were a couple power failures each summer but never was the dvr affected this way. I don't care that the shows were deleted because all the good ones ended a couple weeks ago anyway and the only stuff I had on it was reality crap. If anyone else experienced this or knows why this happened please post. Thanks.

If anyone else experienced this or knows why this happened please post. Thanks.
I've had numerous (short term) power outages since I got my DVR in 2008 and have never lost anything off the HDD.
Never lost files off my computer's HDD from power outages either. :confused:

DOn't know why it happened, but this illustrates perfectly why most experianced DVR users have them on a UPS.

Yes but your said NO info on every channel?

Yes, no TV Guide info on any channel, in Picture 1. I showed day eight so, as not to confuse the PSIP data with TV Guide data.

Mark

Make your Menu changes after the DVR's Initial Installation or after resetting the Factory
Defaults (via - Menu/Setup/System Setups/Factory Defaults).

* Menu/Setup/DVR Default Option; set Start Early and End Late each to '0 Minutes' each.

* Menu/Setup/Updates- set Enable/Disable Timer to 'Disabled'.

* Menu/Preferences/Guide Display- set Direction to 'Ascending' and Type to 'Small Text'.

* Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup- Set to 'Standard'. See Note below (Dolby Digital Setup):
You may prefer keeping the default ('Night') for un-compressed audio.

Note:

Re. The Dolby Digital Setup for 'Standard'/'Night' modes (Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup).

The Help display for this mode says - Select "Night Mode" to have a smaller range between the
loudest audio and the quietest.

Although, due to a F208 system software programming error, this mode selection is reversed.
The 'Night' mode (Factory Default in F208) is actually 'Standard', and vice-versa. Thus
the 'Standard' mode has the lower range in volume with its moderate audio compression.

I prefer F208's 'Standard' mode for its audio compression. It reduces the level of excessively
loud audio, such as in some commercials, etc.

There are 3 types of Resets for the DTVPal DVR

1. Soft Reset (least aggressive Reset):

Hold down the Remote's 'Power ON' button for 10 seconds.

Note:

Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Does NOT erase recording schedules.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.

2. Hard Reset (restart locked DVR):

Unplug the DVR from its AC power outlet,
wait at least 30 seconds, then plug it back in.

Note:

Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Does NOT erase recording schedules.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.

3. Factory Reset (most aggressive Reset):

Restores the 'Factory Defaults'. Select Menu (button), Setup/System Setups/Factory Defaults.

Note:

Erases and re-scans local channels.
Erases and re-downloads TVGOS data.
Erases any previous 'Menu' changes.
Erases recording schedules/timers.
Does NOT erase the HDD recordings.

I just got my Pal hooked up today. Boy it sure does go off and on alot to update guide. I "know" it is set up for Dolby Digital not the pcm but all I get on my Pioneer 1018 is stereo when I go to auto surround. My old Sony dvr worked for DD and my Sony BR does DD. What is set up wrong? Nothing changed on my receiver..HELP ?
If your unit is constantly rebooting try a battery backup. Variation in the voltage could be causing the rebooting. I have experienced this on several computers. You might not notice the voltage variation but the Pal will.

Re. The Dolby Digital Setup for 'Standard'/'Night' modes (Menu/Setup/Dolby Digital Setup).

The Help display for this mode says - Select "Night Mode" to have a smaller range between the
loudest audio and the quietest.

Although, due to a F208 system software programming error, this mode selection is reversed.
The 'Night' mode (Factory Default in F208) is actually 'Standard', and vice-versa. Thus
the 'Standard' mode has the lower range in volume with its moderate audio compression.

I prefer F208's 'Standard' mode for its audio compression. It reduces the level of excessively
loud audio, such as in some commercials, etc.

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?
My ears are the only confirmation I need!

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

+1 Hearing is believing and I did read it way back in this forum, but can't remember if it was on page 1 or not.

Where did you get that info about the Dolby compression options being reversed? Has it been confirmed even in the F208 FW?

My ears are the only confirmation I need!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Night mode = narrower dynamic range which should equal "louder volume"

This is my experience, especially when using RF through TV speakers. I run it with Night Mode on so that if the DTVPal turns off before my TV I don't get a blast of static :) (I.e. volume levels of TV tuner and PAL are closer)

I've had mine since Dec 2008, and it has never taken more than 7 or 8 minutes to acquire and fill in a full 7 plus days of TVGOS info after a restart.
And yes, I do know the difference between PSIP and TVGOS. :rolleyes:

I verified what you have said here. Doing the 10 second power switch reset, does get the guide data back in 7 or 8 minutes, also pulling the power cord and plugging it back in gets the data back that fast also. However, that is because the TVGOS data is not actually deleted from the DTVPal, rather the reset causes the "link" between the data and the grid to be lost, and it has to re-establish that link to copy the data back to the grid. That only takes about 7 or 8 minutes like you said.

If you do the Factory Defaults, it will take from 30 minutes up to 8 hours (if reset in the evening) to get the TV Guide data back. This is because unlike the other two resets, the Factory Defaults wipes the TV Guide data from the DVR, and it has to re-download the data. It is easy to prove, (or dis-prove) what I am talking about. If you do the Factory Defaults after 5:40pm, you will not have TV Guide data when you go to bed that night. You won't get any guide data until after 2:00am the next morning. This is because there is no listing data sent out between 5:41pm in the evening, and 2:01am the next morning.

Mark

Ok :)