I think it depends on where you are and when the local station broadcasting TVGOS starts to fool with it for the upcoming time change. I didn't have any problems until March; but some others in this thread started having problems in Feb.

Anyway, it's Sunday now and everything is back to normal. My time is correct and TVGOS works and I just have to delete more errant timers and recreate them.

I have said this before, but these issues have nothing to do with TVGOS, (or PSIP for that matter). I have the Sony DHG that uses TVGOS exclusively (in fact the DHG is useless without it, since you can't even set the clock manually). It has never had any issues related to these time changes. My DTVPal on the other hand started recording the first show today an hour early, so I'll have to delete, and recreate each timer, just to be safe. If you think about it the DTVPal has no issue at all with the actual time change, it is only the timers that get screwed up, and the timers have nothing to do with TVGOS. Apparently the buggy Echostar code has issues with the DTVPal's clock being automatically changed by an hour, which somehow causes the timers to get really confused.

Someone also suggested that it may be an issue with GMT, and the timezone. The thing to remember about GMT, is that it is unaware of daylight savings time. So at 1:59am Central time this morning, GMT was 7:59am. Two minutes later the local time showed as 3:01am, but the GMT time was 8:01am. Since TVGOS sends out GMT, there is no time shift that it does for Daylight savings time, the time shift is left up to the individual devices to do. PSIP is also sent out as GMT, so there is no time shift there either.

All of these DST issues are caused by the DTVPal's buggy software, and has nothing to do with TVGOS, or the stations that send it out.

Mark

It was very bad for me that started in the end of February. So many mess ups in my timer list. I basically deleted all and started from scratch today after the actual time change. I hope it doesn't do it again until the next one! :(

FYI, I live in Los Angeles/L.A. area if that matters.

This would be a great fix if they ever came out with a NEW FIRMWARE 209 update

This would be a great fix if they ever came out with a NEW FIRMWARE 209 updateFunny, they never fixed it with their previous firmwares. How many did they release? Nine? I doubt we will ever see new ones for DTV Pal. Maybe ChannelMaster will get the updates, but so far they haven't gotten any. :(

No problems with my CM-7000PAL, DST transition was seamless.

Minor glitch a month ago but yesterday was without event. Since we have not had a software update in a while perhaps the DTS problems were more with the stations sending bad data than with the DVR software.

Funny, they never fixed it with their previous firmwares. How many did they release? Nine? I doubt we will ever see new ones for DTV Pal. Maybe ChannelMaster will get the updates, but so far they haven't gotten any. :(

I don't know, I've had mine since Dec. 2008 and I think I remember some minor problems that first year. I haven't had to do a thing for DST at least since F208. All my timers make the transition just fine. There must be some kind of regional component to this. (I'm in the Twin Cities, MN market and get TVGOS.) Also, I tend to use manually created timers if that makes a difference (rather than clicking on programs in the guide).

I have two units, and I primarily use manual timers. I had one auto timer selected from the guide, which I deleted and put in again as a manual timer after the time switch. The only glitch I noticed was the unit that had the auto timer arbitrarily recorded a one hour program in the AM, I don't remeber if it started at 12:00, and didn't notice if the channel was the same as the auto timer.

I would rather take the time to put in manual timers, and add an hour on the weekends when an earlier sport program may delay the start of an evening broadcast.

I just bought my second DTVPal DVR off Ebay. Paid less than last time at $233. Was also looking at one of the Sony HDD250s on Ebay but since I don't think I'll ever go back to Comcast, the advantages of the Sony over the Pal were easily overcome by the advantages of the DTVPal DVR. And, the Sony's going rate is around $300 or so right now.

So... I guess my last problem to solve in my home is the diminishing signal strength of my OTA digital signal for NBC and CW affiliates, which both are coming in at around 68 in strength. All others are above 90 and are flawless.

When I add another split, I am worried that my signal strength will drop to the point where there are audio and video dropouts....?

In the meantime though... I am stoked!:D

Last night I had the Pal set to record Letterman followed by Craig Ferguson on CBS and Jimmy Kimmel Live on ABC. They were all in "My Recordings" this morning. Just now I went to play through them, and Kimmel and Letterman have vanished! They still show in the "completed" recordings but have disappeared in the My Recordings list. Anyone else see new recordings simply disappear?

How much recording space do you have left?

How much recording space do you have left? "HD: 4hr 05min SD: 15hr 31min"

So... I guess my last problem to solve in my home is the diminishing signal strength of my OTA digital signal for NBC and CW affiliates, which both are coming in at around 68 in strength. All others are above 90 and are flawless.

When I add another split, I am worried that my signal strength will drop to the point where there are audio and video dropouts....?One of these LNAs works very well indeed when inserted before your first split: http://kitztech.com/ . I've had one of these (KT-100VG) in continuous service for almost 5 years now in my attic, driving 4 sets and 2 DVRs.

Hint: If you're using a splitter with an odd number of outputs, be careful to use the least attenuated output (labeled 4dB or perhaps -4dB) to pass on to the next splitter (if any); splitters with an even number of outputs attenuate all outputs equally.

One of these LNAs works very well indeed when inserted before your first split: http://kitztech.com/ . I've had one of these (KT-100VG) in continuous service for almost 5 years now in my attic, driving 4 sets and 2 DVRs.

Hint: If you're using a splitter with an odd number of outputs, be careful to use the least attenuated output (labeled 4dB or perhaps -4dB) to pass on to the next splitter (if any); splitters with an even number of outputs attenuate all outputs equally.Do all these boosters use power ACs?

Do all these boosters use power ACs?

You can't 'boost' a signal without external source of energy. Law of physics. ;)

You can't 'boost' a signal without external source of energy. Law of physics. ;)that's annoying. More power hoggers and heat. [sighs]

I'm using Terk-55 with small power brick, an inserter have a switch: power on/off and it boost 3..4% on the DVR's scale. And adding to the picture a splitter (1 to 2) after the inserter - both devices working fine.

Thanks for the people posting and maintaining this topic.

My DTVPAL just had the reboot issue and I was able to resolve it with the help from post #1.

# DTVPal DVR may get stuck in a "loading...please wait" reboot loop. Greatly minimized in F208 software!

This is known as the "corrupt timer" issue.

If your DTVPal DVR has the F208 software, disconnecting the antenna coax will usually halt the reboot loop. While the antenna coax is disconnected, reset the DVR to the factory defaults under Menu -> Setup -> System Setup -> Restore Factory Defaults. That will delete your timers and settings, but it will preserve your recordings and allow your DTVPal DVR to function again with the antenna connected.

DTVPal DVR software prior to F208 was not able to recover from a reboot loop, so it is highly recommended that one update with F208 to significantly reduce the potential for hardware failure. Click here for update instructions.

If disconnecting the coax does not halt the reboot loop, then your DTVPal DVR is likely dead. This is rare with F208, but it can still happen. In this case, there is no known solution and you'll need to seek a replacement through warranty service, assuming you purchased a Sears' extended warranty.

I had a weird issue with the time change. Timers were messed up, which I have come to expect. But when I checked late Sunday, my dtvpal was recording for 20 hours. Checked timers and saw nothing there. Tried stopping the recording but it didn' respond to the command. I didn't want to turn it off for fear of crashing the drive. Next day, turned it on and the dvr menu was not selectable. It was grayed out. Turned off and on, same problem. I then unplugged it, waited a couple minutes, and plugged it back in. After some time, it reset itself and I was able to check my dvr menu. All recordings were deleted except for two that I had locked. I'm thinking it is due to the infinite recording deleting other programs to make room. But this infinite recording is not showing up - only the two locked programs, and I have lots of free space - so it overwrote everything and disappeared. Weird!

... when I checked late Sunday, my dtvpal was recording for 20 hours. Checked timers and saw nothing there. Tried stopping the recording but it didn' respond to the command. I didn't want to turn it off for fear of crashing the drive. ...

Don't forget you can (try to) use the "soft" reboot command. Just hold done the Pal's "power off" button on the remote for 10 seconds.

Last night I had the Pal set to record Letterman followed by Craig Ferguson on CBS and Jimmy Kimmel Live on ABC. They were all in "My Recordings" this morning. Just now I went to play through them, and Kimmel and Letterman have vanished! They still show in the "completed" recordings but have disappeared in the My Recordings list. Anyone else see new recordings simply disappear?

"HD: 4hr 05min SD: 15hr 31min"

Seems like you should have space before the 'Pal started deleting shows, but it might be marginal from the 'Pals perspective. I recall someone did some tests at some point (year or so ago?), and the remarked that the Pal did delete shows that have been mark "played" before older shows that had not been played. There did not seem to be consistency in the order of what "played" shows where deleted. (Any show that was "partially played" is marked as "played" - similar to an email marked unread or read.)

For example, there does not seem to be a logical order in the "play list" of a folder. One would think it would be by date, but its prob some text description instead...auto-deleting shows probably follows some meaningless order as well.

I'm using Terk-55 with small power brick, an inserter have a switch: power on/off and it boost 3..4% on the DVR's scale. And adding to the picture a splitter (1 to 2) after the inserter - both devices working fine.

We use a Terk-50 (older version of Terk-55) Little longer. I wonder how they compare against each other with the DVR?

Anyway my question is what is "small power brick"?

Link to one pls. What does it do?

We use a Terk-50 (older version of Terk-55) Little longer. I wonder how they compare against each other with the DVR?

Anyway my question is what is "small power brick"?

Link to one pls. What does it do?I assume it is one of these: http://www.google.com/images?q=power+brick ...

I assume it is one of these: http://www.google.com/images?q=power+brick ...

What does it do?

What does it do?Give power of course.

Give power of course.

Ok why would you not just plug the DVR into the wall or power strip? Why is this thing necessary?

Ok why would you not just plug the DVR into the wall or power strip? Why is this thing necessary?Uh, it's for the antenna.

Ok why would you not just plug the DVR into the wall or power strip? Why is this thing necessary?Oh dear... they're not talking about power to the DVR, they're talking about powering a LNA (Low Noise Amplifier), a broadband signal booster (typically about 20dB) placed between your antenna feed and any splitters to offset the losses when the signal is split (each split reduces signal about 4dB). Sometimes the LNA is housed within an indoor antenna itself. No LNA can work without a source of power, thus the brick (either a transformer-based or switching power supply) packaged outside the LNA itself and connected to it with a wire or via a coax inserter. Hopefully we're all on the same page now!

Oh dear... they're not talking about power to the DVR, they're talking about powering a LNA (Low Noise Amplifier), a broadband signal booster (typically about 20dB) placed between your antenna feed and any splitters to offset the losses when the signal is split (each split reduces signal about 4dB). Sometimes the LNA is housed within an indoor antenna itself. No LNA can work without a source of power, thus the brick (either a transformer-based or switching power supply) packaged outside the LNA itself and connected to it with a wire or via a coax inserter. Hopefully we're all on the same page now!

Ya, Thank you Wonder why they did not use a power strip?

I was wondering how long this would take.... when did Channel Master begin selling it's version of the DTVPal DVR ? already a refurbed unit available on EBay..... looks like things haven't changed as far as reliability goes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Personal-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-R-refurbished-/190512315361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b6b3be1

I was wondering how long this would take.... when did Channel Master begin selling it's version of the DTVPal DVR ? already a refurbed unit available on EBay..... looks like things haven't changed as far as reliability goes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Personal-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-R-refurbished-/190512315361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b6b3be1From what I read ChannelMaster is basically DTV Pal with its firmware 208. Just brand name and warranty differences IIRC.

Ya, Thank you Wonder why they did not use a power strip?

OMG ! :D

Yes, the power adapter must be plug to power strip (110 VAC) to produce 9VDC for Terk-55's RF amplifier inside of the antenna. Perhaps you could read about its design in Internet ? ;)

From the Manufacturer
The Terk TV-55 is engineered specifically to optimize the performance of high definition television as well as analog television signals. The TV-55’s unique helical coil element allows for an unobtrusive design yet without compromising the ability to capture lower-frequency TV stations. The helical coil receives both UHF and VHF frequencies and provides exceptional reception at all frequencies.

The TV-55 functions as both a high-performance outdoor and indoor antenna. It’s ideal for houses and apartments--anywhere an unobtrusive yet high-performance antenna is desired.

Thanks to its unique slim profile and weather-proof design, the TV-55 can be installed under the eaves of a roof, on a windowsill, on an outside wall, on a terrace, or used as a roof-top antenna. It easily mounts inside a house or apartment on a wall, in a closet or attic, or any number of locations near or away from your TV. The TV-55 can even be mounted on top of an RV or on a boat (special marine version available). All necessary mounting hardware is included.

The TV-55 features a patented dual-mode ultra low-noise amplifier that allows a choice of the best gain setting for maximum reception. The amplifier can be set to high-gain mode to correct for signals that are too weak, or bypassed for optimum reception of strong signals. The amplifier is connected directly to the antenna element for the shortest signal path and lowest noise. To ensure highest-quality signal transmission, the TV-55 includes a threaded F-connector for connection to RG6 cable (not included).

The TV-55 is lightweight and highly durable. Designed for reliable performance year after year, the TV-55 is constructed from rustproof, high-strength aluminum and hermetically sealed with weatherproof polycarbonate housing, for protection from the most severe environmental conditions.

One thing I would add - the "hermetically sealed" gasket been teared apart by my enemies - crows, after that they had a taste of green laser.:eek:

Looks like this guy stepped on his DVR and trying to sell it on ebay. Why is it so dirty?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DTVPal-DVR-/120697609364?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1a235c94

plus no returns. lol I wonder why?

He did renovation of his house.

OMG ! :D

Yes, the power adapter must be plug to power strip (110 VAC) to produce 9VDC for Terk-55's RF amplifier inside of the antenna. Perhaps you could read about its design in Internet ? ;)

I think we need to show him photographs/photos. with its power connection to give him a better idea. I could not find any. :(

Internet ?
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect.png
also
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect2.png

I was wondering how long this would take.... when did Channel Master begin selling it's version of the DTVPal DVR ? already a refurbed unit available on EBay..... looks like things haven't changed as far as reliability goes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Personal-DVR-Channel-Master-CM-7000PAL-R-refurbished-/190512315361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b6b3be1

I bought an open box directly from the Channel Master store a few weeks ago. They're priced at $300 but have been on sale for $290 for the past month or so. I also found an old 10% off coupon code "shopcmstore" from last summer when they were taking pre-orders. The coupon code worked so I got it for $261 with free shipping and the standard one year warranty. So far it's pretty awesome.

I just looked at the ebay link. It's probably coming directly from Channel Master, at least they're headquartered in Gilbert, AZ where this item is shipping from.

Internet ?
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect.png
also
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect2.png
Thanks. I didn't find those. :)

Pictures taken here http://voxrightnow.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7646/~/connecting-terk-tv55-indoor%2Foutdoor-television-antenna

OMG ! :D

Yes, the power adapter must be plug to power strip (110 VAC) to produce 9VDC for Terk-55's RF amplifier inside of the antenna. Perhaps you could read about its design in Internet ? ;)


One thing I would add - the "hermetically sealed" gasket been teared apart by my enemies - crows, after that they had a taste of green laser.:eek:

BTW Terk told me that I would have to upgrade to the terk-55 from the terk 50 for HD. That was a false. Your antenna is just the newer version of what I have. Best we ever used in apartment. If i remember right. The 50 is 8 foot. About 1 foot longer then the 55. Also Your connection is on one of the ends right? Well the 50 has it in the middle. I makes it easier to hook up. imo

I could not find a picture of the Terk-50 (too old) But the TERK FM pro (for radio) I have this also and they are identical except the Terk-50 (tv) is 1 foot longer. Also the FM antenna works with TV. I tried it hooked up to the Dishpal

Notice the center hook up for the cable
http://i53.tinypic.com/205t93o.jpg

BTW I tried the Clearstream C2 (was told it was better) with the Dish boxs. I got the same signal strength and channels as the TERK-50. So i returned the Clearstream C2

Internet ?
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect.png
also
http://www.voxxsupport.com/images/TV55_Connect2.png

Yes YES mine has the same set up. I just plug it into the powerstrip.

Never mind the LIGHTBULB went off./

We have the same set up

How do you find reception? Up to how many miles away can you get signal? I use it indoors. I think you use it outside?

I get 10 to 15 miles then I get problems. I do have it on a outerwall but has to be inside apartment.

We do get 56 channels including subs. We are only 7 miles from main TV source.

I got around fifty channels from stations up to 50 miles using it outdoor, 3 feet above three story bldg.
Missing a few of those what at 90 +/-10 degree - the antenna has '8' type of reception diagram.

I got around fifty channels from stations up to 50 miles using it outdoor, 3 feet above three story bldg.
Missing a few of those what at 90 +/-10 degree - the antenna has '8' type of reception diagram.

WOW what a degree of loss by putting it inside. I wish I was allowed to mount it outside. Against the rules. We are on the 5th floor. So I guess that helps. Anything past 15 miles gives me troubles.
Not that I am complaining. We get all the majors at 99 signal strength and many others.
BTW not sure if you did what I did. Since you are a Pro at this. I bet you are using HD grade rg6 cable wire from the antenna to the Dish DVR and from the DVR to the tv.

I got 5 more signal strength by using HD grade rg6 cable. Short about 5 feet.

I also tried putting it in the window and I guess the mental in the window made the sigle go nuts and weak.

WOW what a degree of loss by putting it inside. I wish I was allowed to mount it outside. Against the rules. We are on the 5th floor. So I guess that helps. Anything past 15 miles gives me troubles.
Not that I am complaining. We get all the majors at 99 signal strength and many others.
BTW not sure if you did what I did. Since you are a Pro at this. I bet you are using HD grade rg6 cable wire from the antenna to the Dish DVR and from the DVR to the tv.

I got 5 more signal strength by using HD grade rg6 cable. Short about 5 feet.

I also tried putting it in the window and I guess the mental in the window made the sigle go nuts and weak.Does it help if you open the window? I noticed my newer windows get better signals with it open. I guess the heat protection causes the losses for me (sometimes).

Just regular RG-6 (used because its there for sat dish) or RG-59 will be fine.

Don't fall into marketing gimmicks with the "HD" hype.

OTARD FCC rules allow install OTA antenna on any roof.

Just regular RG-6 (used because its there for sat dish) or RG-59 will be fine.

Don't fall into marketing gimmicks with the "HD" hype.

OTARD FCC rules allow install OTA antenna on any roof.

I only needed 5 foot so I went to best buy and bought the TERK HD Rg6 wire. Made a difference for me. Not expensive because I needed just 5 to 10 feet.

Does it help if you open the window? I noticed my newer windows get better signals with it open. I guess the heat protection causes the losses for me (sometimes).

Can't there is an air condition in the window. No open

Can't there is an air condition in the window. No openAh. Probably inteferences with AC. :( I had to put my rabbit ears antenna on the shelf in my room's closest away from the window.

Ah. Probably inteferences with AC. :( I had to put my rabbit ears antenna on the shelf in my room's closest away from the window.

Not complaining, we get 56 channels (including subs) All come in the 85 to 99 range. 1 or 2 (not good channels like HSN Come in at 68. So some break up on one channel.

I did find that the original tuner in the first dishpal seemed more stable then the PLUS that is in the DVR and Plus boxes.

I have all the dish boxes. Love the guide

Does anyone know of a place that can repair the DTV Pal? I now have 2 that have died within weeks of each other, and Square Trade will reimburse repair on one, but the place they referred me to actually only does Tivo repair, and knows of no place that works on DTV Pals. The Tivo guy said it sounds like my power supply went out on the one under warranty, but he wouldn't know how to find out for sure and/or replace it.
I can't believe that there wouldn't even be one place knowledgeable about these units that have been around now since 2008.

Does anyone know of a place that can repair the DTV Pal? I now have 2 that have died within weeks of each other, and Square Trade will reimburse repair on one, but the place they referred me to actually only does Tivo repair, and knows of no place that works on DTV Pals. The Tivo guy said it sounds like my power supply went out on the one under warranty, but he wouldn't know how to find out for sure and/or replace it.
I can't believe that there wouldn't even be one place knowledgeable about these units that have been around now since 2008.

Did you ask or read about reboots ect. Maybe if you tell the guys here about your symptoms. They can help.

Do you get it to turn on? Do you get any screen? Is it a loop? Do you have FR 208?

ect

Well the one with no power might be done.

I bet there are a few here that know how to replace the power

Did you ask or read about reboots ect. Maybe if you tell the guys here about your symptoms. They can help.

Do you get it to turn on? Do you get any screen? Is it a loop? Do you have FR 208?

ect

Well the one with no power might be done.

I bet there are a few here that know how to replace the power

Both of them just died when they weren't being used. Both F208. Had no problems the night before when using them, then found them dead the next day. First one turned on the green and red lights by itself when no timers were set, and that's what tipped me off to something being wrong.
Both show no screen, so the only thing I could do to try to reboot was unplug for awhile, which didn't help.
I can get the green light to turn on with the first, not the 2nd. All I get from the 2nd is a quiet tick, tick sound. No fan with either. Opened the first to see if cleaning out dust would help like it did someone else, but it didn't. :(
I don't think either can be helped except by a repair shop. I got very excited for a minute when Square Trade told me they knew of one, but now my search continues, since they were wrong.

Have you checked the remote(s) to be sure they are in DVR Mode?

I can't believe that there wouldn't even be one place knowledgeable about these units that have been around now since 2008.These are throw-away electronics. There are no repair shops because there is no availability of parts. Get square trade to give you a cash settlement, that's the best you can do.

These are throw-away electronics. There are no repair shops because there is no availability of parts. Get square trade to give you a cash settlement, that's the best you can do.

I'm thankful I bought that warranty because I can get cash back, but I really wanted the shows that were on the hard drive, and when I turn the unit in for reimbursement, there will be no way to ever move the drive to another one to check if they are still there. I hate that Square trade will just throw this out when it was only used for a few months total.
So when ChannelMasters break, there are no parts for those either? I was hoping someone repairs those, since they still are selling them with 1 yr warranties, and the parts should be the same.

Perhaps I could start collecting those DVR ? :)

How much you willing to get for each of your ?

You would want to pay for broken DVRs that can't be fixed? I could only understand wanting them for parts, but how would you even know which parts are broken or not?

So when ChannelMasters break, there are no parts for those either? I was hoping someone repairs those, since they still are selling them with 1 yr warranties, and the parts should be the same.If they break under warranty, Channel Master will probably replace it with either a new or "refurbed" unit. If it breaks out of warranty it is a throw-away (or throw to P Smith) like the Pal DVR.

I'm thankful I bought that warranty because I can get cash back, but I really wanted the shows that were on the hard drive, and when I turn the unit in for reimbursement, there will be no way to ever move the drive to another one to check if they are still there. I hate that Square trade will just throw this out when it was only used for a few months total.
So when ChannelMasters break, there are no parts for those either? I was hoping someone repairs those, since they still are selling them with 1 yr warranties, and the parts should be the same.

Just a thought from reading this board. Did you un-connect the antenna and then un-plug and then re-plug back into socket?

It seems taking off the antenna helps people reboot.

Also what version for Firmware are they using? Fr208?

Just a thought from reading this board. Did you un-connect the antenna and then un-plug and then re-plug back into socket?

It seems taking off the antenna helps people reboot.

Also what version for Firmware are they using? Fr208?

I have never put the antenna connection back on once I disconnected it. There is no point when the unit isn't even powering up. If it was working, it would be humming and the fan would turn when plugged in, whether or not the antenna was connected.

I have never put the antenna connection back on once I disconnected it. There is no point when the unit isn't even powering up. If it was working, it would be humming and the fan would turn when plugged in, whether or not the antenna was connected.

Both units have no screen?

Again What firmware did they have? Fr208?

Both units have no screen?

Again What firmware did they have? Fr208?

When I replied to you this morning, I answered both of those questions, so I didn't bother repeating them in my last post. It's just a few posts above this one, Yes and Yes.

Well, perhaps I omitted first phrase, thought it is obvious and anyone could deduct it - I did fix for one of the members here (you can read his testimonial in the thread).
So, if someone want to fix - welcome send a PM to me; if someone ( I recall a few posts here about throwing out broken DVR) willing to donate/sell/give up to me I would use them as a source of spare parts for benefit of those who still 'addicted' and want them back as working DVR.

It could be more complicated process if you wish: send it to me for assessment evaluation, get a status and a quota in case of fix or get estimated residue value, etc.

Would be kind of you to help him. I am guessing that the one under warranty will go back to the company he bought it from. Even if they just give him back his cash.

The other one is useless. Unless someone could help him

Just out of curiosity. What did it cost for the one you fixed? One never knows if their machine will break. Good info to have. Just in-case.

Do you charge for the work done or just for parts or both?

In any case someone like you would be the last resort if a person could not find a little fix it guy

It bothers me that Dish and now channel master could sell a $300 to $350 machine with NO SUPPORT after the warranty has expired. Even if you were willing to pay.

When I replied to you this morning, I answered both of those questions, so I didn't bother repeating them in my last post. It's just a few posts above this one, Yes and Yes.

Sorry must of missed that comment. Thanks for repeating.

It bothers me that Dish and now channel master could sell a $300 to $350 machine with NO SUPPORT after the warranty has expired. Even if you were willing to pay.Just think for a minute. How many electronic devices in that price range can you name that have service/support after the warranty runs out? What happens when your cell phone breaks the day after it's warranty expires? Why do people continue to insist that the Pal/CM DVR should somehow be different.

1: Or not. Who need the broken one if there is no support ?
2: If he didn't reveal, then it's private.

Are you saying you won't tell us the cost to fix the dvr?

Both of them just died when they weren't being used. Both F208. Had no problems the night before when using them, then found them dead the next day. First one turned on the green and red lights by itself when no timers were set, and that's what tipped me off to something being wrong.
Both show no screen, so the only thing I could do to try to reboot was unplug for awhile, which didn't help.
I can get the green light to turn on with the first, not the 2nd. All I get from the 2nd is a quiet tick, tick sound. No fan with either. Opened the first to see if cleaning out dust would help like it did someone else, but it didn't. :(
I don't think either can be helped except by a repair shop. I got very excited for a minute when Square Trade told me they knew of one, but now my search continues, since they were wrong.

Sorry this happened to you, but a few things seem amiss here. A ticking sound may be traced a bad hard drive.... did you try unplugging the hard drive internally and see if the ticking sound stops ?
From what I know about these machines, the fan doesn't go on right away,
it takes about 5 to 10 minutes after you unplug it for a while, like being off for an hour or so.

Unlike everyone else who owns these dvr's, I unplug both of mine every night after they're done recording, and leave them unplugged until the next night.
When I turn them back on, both green and red lights are on, nothing is on the screen, after a few minutes the 'loading' screen comes on, then it downloads program info and the units go into standby mode.

You said you disconnected the antenna cable, I would check the cables with other sources like your tv set to make sure you're getting a signal..... without a signal the screen goes blank. If you're getting a green light with one of them, maybe that one is still salvageable.

... Unlike everyone else who owns these dvr's, I unplug both of mine every night after they're done recording, and leave them unplugged until the next night.
When I turn them back on, both green and red lights are on, nothing is on the screen, after a few minutes the 'loading' screen comes on, then it downloads program info and the units go into standby mode...Just curious. Why turn your DVR off every night? Saving power or something? I am planning to unplug my DVR's power for the summer when there's nothing on TV to save power and make less heat in my room (can go up to 90F degrees!).

Sorry this happened to you, but a few things seem amiss here. A ticking sound may be traced a bad hard drive.... did you try unplugging the hard drive internally and see if the ticking sound stops ?
From what I know about these machines, the fan doesn't go on right away,
it takes about 5 to 10 minutes after you unplug it for a while, like being off for an hour or so.

Unlike everyone else who owns these dvr's, I unplug both of mine every night after they're done recording, and leave them unplugged until the next night.
When I turn them back on, both green and red lights are on, nothing is on the screen, after a few minutes the 'loading' screen comes on, then it downloads program info and the units go into standby mode.

You said you disconnected the antenna cable, I would check the cables with other sources like your tv set to make sure you're getting a signal..... without a signal the screen goes blank. If you're getting a green light with one of them, maybe that one is still salvageable.

The one with the ticking sound is the one still under warranty, so I didn't do anything with it besides verify that the same thing happens when plugged in to different power strips in different wall sockets. It is now sitting in the home of the person I bought it from on ebay, waiting for my decision about what to do. I thought he had a place to take it to for repair, but it turned out he used the word "warranty" when he actually meant "guarantee". :(
I came here to see if anyone knew of a place that could repair it, because the warranty I bought myself (for after the 90 day original coverage) would cover the repair, but I'm still no further on getting info on who to call about even doing an estimate. It has to be an actual repair shop that would give me an invoice I can fax to Square Trade.
I know there is nothing wrong with the antenna because I tried it connected to an outdoor one in another location that was and is working for my 3rd DVR.
Plus, being without a signal still shows something on the screen, like it's trying to acquire one, never just a black screen.
Because the green light still comes on on my oldest one, the one NOT under warranty, I was hoping that it could be repaired and that my recordings are still on the hard drive. That's the one I opened to clean the dust off of and see how the fan is connected, etc. I don't understand why the fan wouldn't come on by design as soon as the power goes on. Are you sure this happens with every unit and isn't just a flaw in yours?

The fan has some sort of temperature sensor - the higher the internal temp of the unit
the faster the fan runs.

The fan has some sort of temperature sensor - the higher the internal temp of the unit
the faster the fan runs.
Not a fan has, the temp sensor(s) located on board and inside of a drive.

From what I have read, once you get these units open, it is a simple plug and play replacement for the HD.
What seems to be a killer is when the PS or the tuner goes out.

There is a guy on craigslist who is willing to give away his broken DVDPal DVR. I spoke to him and was going to take it off his hands, but after talking to him it seems that both the tuner and HD are toast. IIRC, I think he was from Virginia?

As for DVDPal DVRS being sold no returns, as is... I just don't buy any used electronics unless I get at least a 7 day guarantee against DOA/unit failure.

There is no device called the DVDPal.

It's the "DTVPal".

The machine has no DVD drive. Never has.

I have never put the antenna connection back on once I disconnected it. There is no point when the unit isn't even powering up. If it was working, it would be humming and the fan would turn when plugged in, whether or not the antenna was connected.

If you get no appearance of any power ....fan....lights....hum... Could be a power supply issue, assuming the outlet works, and rather easy to repair by a tech that knows anything. Basic power supply parts are available at some Radio Shacks and places like Newark and I'm sure many others. I was able to repair an ATSC receiver with some new power supply capacitors....running for two months now.

When you get down to the chips and components on the Main Board...then your pretty much out of luck, as many are probably proprietary or in need of software programming.

Good Luck,

Does the DVR have a simple fuse for the power supply (or power line, etc.)?

Does the DVR have a simple fuse for the power supply (or power line, etc.)?

Yes, I did post a macro picture of it.

It's not a flat rate fix. It should be estimated.
Need to know what is broken, sometimes it would be simple (corrupted FW), other time (power supply, a drive) it could take take more labor time, parts.
Perhaps you had experience with fixing your car(s) ...

Nope, That is what real warranty's are for.

My original question was. What did it cost on the last DVR (dish) you fixed for a member here?

Can you give an approximate if you will not give exact

Just really curious if it pays to fix these things.

Nope, That is what real warranty's are for.

My original question was. What did it cost on the last DVR (dish) you fixed for a member here?

Can you give an approximate if you will not give exact

Just really curious if it pays to fix these things.

Take a hint. It seems to be that he is telling you that "it's none of your business".

If you have one that needs servicing, contact him privately and arrange for him to assess the unit and give you a quote. Otherwise please move on.


.

Yes, I did post a macro picture of it.

Where is the picture posted? I don't see it on the first page of this thread. Plus, the picture that was there of the inside latches and how to best open them isn't there anymore. Why was that removed?

Just curious. Why turn your DVR off every night? Saving power or something? I am planning to unplug my DVR's power for the summer when there's nothing on TV to save power and make less heat in my room (can go up to 90F degrees!).

To me there's no reason a DVR should be running 24 hrs a day.... I don't leave my computers on 24/7. Dvd recorders with hard drives power
down after useage, as do cable co DVR's. Since the DTVPal DVR's are
prone to failure, I'd rather leave them off when not in use. It's not a
'saving power' issue, more like a precautionary measure.

The one with the ticking sound is the one still under warranty, so I didn't do anything with it besides verify that the same thing happens when plugged in to different power strips in different wall sockets. It is now sitting in the home of the person I bought it from on ebay, waiting for my decision about what to do. I thought he had a place to take it to for repair, but it turned out he used the word "warranty" when he actually meant "guarantee". :(
I came here to see if anyone knew of a place that could repair it, because the warranty I bought myself (for after the 90 day original coverage) would cover the repair, but I'm still no further on getting info on who to call about even doing an estimate. It has to be an actual repair shop that would give me an invoice I can fax to Square Trade.
I know there is nothing wrong with the antenna because I tried it connected to an outdoor one in another location that was and is working for my 3rd DVR.
Plus, being without a signal still shows something on the screen, like it's trying to acquire one, never just a black screen.
Because the green light still comes on on my oldest one, the one NOT under warranty, I was hoping that it could be repaired and that my recordings are still on the hard drive. That's the one I opened to clean the dust off of and see how the fan is connected, etc. I don't understand why the fan wouldn't come on by design as soon as the power goes on. Are you sure this happens with every unit and isn't just a flaw in yours?

No I can't be sure it happens with every unit, I'm going by the two working units I have, and a broken one I've taken apart to see how it works.
I've seen black screens if the signal is lost completely on whatever channel
it's tuned to. My OTA signal is marginal, usually in the 60's or 70's on the signal strength meter.
Unfortunately there isn't anywhere these DVR's can be sent for repair, I've
brought up this issue several times here.
I was under the impression that Square Trade refunds your money if your
broken equipment can't be repaired......

To me there's no reason a DVR should be running 24 hrs a day.... Since the DTVPal DVR's are
prone to failure. I think the constant daily thermal cycling from a cold start to warm and cold again, over and over is worse than leaving it plugged in, turned off in standby mode. I speak as a retired consumer electronics technician with over 30 years experience. My Pal's been plugged in for about two years. Sometimes when power supply components begin to fail like electrolytic capacitors, they won't start showing symptoms until it's been completely powered down, like a no power supply startup condition for example. Anyway good luck with it, I am pretty sure I won't change your mind.

I think the constant daily thermal cycling from a cold start to warm and cold again, over and over is worse than leaving it plugged in, turned off in standby mode. I speak as a retired consumer electronics technician with over 30 years experience. My Pal's been plugged in for about two years. Sometimes when power supply components begin to fail like electrolytic capacitors, they won't start showing symptoms until it's been completely powered down, like a no power supply startup condition for example. Anyway good luck with it, I am pretty sure I won't change your mind.

I totally agree with not turning things like this off. I never turn my computer off either, unless it's to do maintenance. I have read many articles that say hard drives are meant to keep running, and get stressed most every time they get started again after being stopped.

Unfortunately there isn't anywhere these DVR's can be sent for repair, I've brought up this issue several times here.
I was under the impression that Square Trade refunds your money if your
broken equipment can't be repaired......

Yes, I can get my money back from Square Trade, but in that case a unit that has only been used about 60 days will never get a chance at being anything but trash, and I will never be able to watch the recorded shows that were on that hard drive. :mad:
At least now I feel like I have tried my best to resolve this the way I wanted it to go.
ChannelMaster rep took my phone number a few days ago, and a tech actually called me back, even though I don't own one of their DVRs. I'm still rather shocked at that, especially how nice he was on the phone, chatting like he had all the time in the world.
He told me that DVRs under warranty are replaced right away with a new or refurbed unit. Broken ones are sent overseas to be evaluated. There isn't even one repair shop in the USA that he knows of. If the unit can be fixed, they send it back to ChannelMaster to use as a refurb. They never just fix one and send the same one back to the customer.
I asked about the recordings, and he says they don't get corrupted like on a computer hard drive, so would still be there if I could transfer it to another working DVR.
The problems I described with my 2 DVRs, he said sound like power supply and capacitor issues, and that if I could talk a local shop into checking them out, parts would be easy to obtain to fix them, they are nothing special that would have to come from ChannelMaster or Dish. But I would have to find a shop that has some kind of diagnostic equipment (I forgot what he called it-a system analyzer?) and convince them it would be possible to fix. I am going to try calling around eventually to check into that for the one that isn't under warranty.
Now I know that even if I buy a CM7000Pal, my recordings are going to be lost even if the unit dies under warranty. Will never again save anything on a DVR that I think I want to save permanently. Good thing I haven't gotten rid of my DVD recorders, because now I know they are extremely necessary to someone like me who likes to keep copies of certain shows.

Now I know that even if I buy a CM7000Pal, my recordings are going to be lost
I'd like to remind you a simple way to preserve your recordings (sure, it would require to open the DVR):
- get same size SATA drive - 250 GB
- use "GHOST -lr" for sector-to-sector copy or use free software to execute drive plain copy.

In case if your backup drive is bigger then original [250 GB] you will need to make reverse copy to that one what will be inside of replaced DVR.
Using bigger disk [with small partitions] inside of new DVR will destroy your copy - be vigilant to the process.

FWIW...I might suggest offloading programs I HAD to save to another macine such as a SD dvr..HD dvr....or even a VCR. As you know, all outputs are "hot". Of course you would have to do this while the Pal is operating normally.....JMHO

FWIW...I might suggest offloading programs I HAD to save to another macine such as a SD dvr..HD dvr....or even a VCR. As you know, all outputs are "hot". Of course you would have to do this while the Pal is operating normally.....JMHO

I was planning on copying from my first DVR to the DVD recorder one day, had even tested it once to see if I connected the cables correctly. Just never got around to it. And with the 2nd DVR only lasting around 60 days from the time I bought it, never thought I'd have to worry about losing shows that soon. That's why now I'm thinking I should never record onto a DVR in the first place, anything I know I might want to save.

I'd like to remind you a simple way to preserve your recordings (sure, it would require to open the DVR):
- get same size SATA drive - 250 GB
- use "GHOST -lr" for sector-to-sector copy or use free software to execute drive plain copy.

In case if your backup drive is bigger then original [250 GB] you will need to make reverse copy to that one what will be inside of replaced DVR.
Using bigger disk [with small partitions] inside of new DVR will destroy your copy - be vigilant to the process.

Might be simple to you, but I need a lot more detail in order to understand what this means. :confused:
I understand opening it and getting same size drive, but how do you connect the 2 drives, what is "GHOST-lr"? What is "plain copy"?
Thanks for trying to help.

I was planning on copying from my first DVR to the DVD recorder one day, had even tested it once to see if I connected the cables correctly. Just never got around to it. And with the 2nd DVR only lasting around 60 days from the time I bought it, never thought I'd have to worry about losing shows that soon. That's why now I'm thinking I should never record onto a DVR in the first place, anything I know I might want to save.I just wished we could copy our recordings easily directly to PC or something with no encryption/security. Blah. At least TiVo lets you do it. Also, home made home theater/media center PCs as well.

Today 250 GB drives are so cheap, and opening the DVR is no brainier. I'm not telling about the simply copying process. :)

Might be simple to you, but I need a lot more detail in order to understand what this means. :confused:
I understand opening it and getting same size drive, but how do you connect the 2 drives, what is "GHOST-lr"? What is "plain copy"?
Thanks for trying to help.
Modern PC (desktops) has many SATA ports - you'll need two for old and new DVR's drives. In case of notebook, you could buy for $20 dual SATA PCMCIA card or two SATA/USB dongles.

That command line was for Symantec GHOST program, but you can find free program like Clonzilla to make a 'clone' of DVR's partitions/drive.

Importance of "cloning": you must preserve partition's attributes like size and location to avoid full re-init of cloning drive for new DVR.
The 'beast' [DVR software] is very picky about how the drive formatted.

Doesn't the Pal use the same file system as Dish DVRs?

Doesn't the Pal use the same file system as Dish DVRs?
Yes. Some. To some extend.

This is what I would try if I wanted to defeat the case latches for future access to the DTVPal's innards...


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/timepup/DTVPalCaseLatchDefeatB.png


Should work. And it's reversible! :D

Ken

Has anyone tried this yet with package sealing tape? I modified my drive upgrade steps post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16292799) that appears as a link in Post #1 to include links to tzdvl's drawing posts, but want to know if anyone has actually done this to verify that the package tape (or another kind) will work.

I'm applaud of your persistent.

OK, only for you (shh, it's a secret !): ~30% of the box's price.

sigh:(

Anything more then $10 is highway robbery lol

The amount will added as s/h and insurance (no one want it lost or damaged during shipping).
To lower your expenses you must fix it by yourself.

[Seems to me you don't/didn't drive your car through toll both]

Not since the price went up. Many bridges are still free. :D

I really wish you give a range of what the other one costs to fix. I mean if it is $100 don't bother to fix it. Does not pay. imo of course.

I mean their must be a minimum and maximum cost

I only needed 5 foot so I went to best buy and bought the TERK HD Rg6 wire. Made a difference for me. Not expensive because I needed just 5 to 10 feet.

For that distance wire quality should not be much of an issue. I use 80' RG-11 but RG-6 seems to work about as good.

Keep in mind that a helical antenna is directional so it might not hurt to turn it in different directions to see how your reception changes.

For that distance wire quality should not be much of an issue. I use 80' RG-11 but RG-6 seems to work about as good.

Keep in mind that a helical antenna is directional so it might not hurt to turn it in different directions to see how your reception changes.

For my antenna I tried every possible place and direction. I found the sweet spot. 2 feet to the right and disaster lol

sigh:(

Anything more then $10 is highway robbery lol

I think that is an insult. Just give the DVR to some kid to play with because it is worth more than that just to open the box the thing is shipped in. The $100 estimate is probably a good one considering the time scrounging for parts to fix the power supply (could be just a bad cap but may need to wind a new xfmr or find a transistor replacement because the original parts will probably not be available. A new disk will fall in that region also. If it is just a fuse well then somebody lucked out but you don't know til you look.

I am surprised that P Smith even bothers to respond to all these questions.

I think that is an insult. Just give the DVR to some kid to play with because it is worth more than that just to open the box the thing is shipped in. The $100 estimate is probably a good one considering the time scrounging for parts to fix the power supply (could be just a bad cap but may need to wind a new xfmr or find a transistor replacement because the original parts will probably not be available. A new disk will fall in that region also. If it is just a fuse well then somebody lucked out but you don't know til you look.

I am surprised that P Smith even bothers to respond to all these questions.

We do not know if it is $100 or $10. He didn't say.

Of course depending on what is broke. That will make the price go up or down.

Not an insult to ask a range. Would think all legit owners would be interested in knowing.

We never did get a price for labor. That I would think would be in a short range.

I think that is an insult. Just give the DVR to some kid to play with because it is worth more than that just to open the box the thing is shipped in. The $100 estimate is probably a good one considering the time scrounging for parts to fix the power supply (could be just a bad cap but may need to wind a new xfmr or find a transistor replacement because the original parts will probably not be available. A new disk will fall in that region also. If it is just a fuse well then somebody lucked out but you don't know til you look.

I am surprised that P Smith even bothers to respond to all these questions.

I got out of repairing electronics 35 years ago because of the complaint “it cost too much”... That made the statement “it's fair to charge $100 to KNOW where a 30 cent part is” oh so true.

We never did get a price for labor. That I would think would be in a short range.How about $75/hr with a $50 shop minimum. Is it worth fixing at those rates? NO. That's why they are DISPOSABLE ELECTRONICS.

How about $75/hr with a $50 shop minimum. Is it worth fixing at those rates? NO. That's why they are DISPOSABLE ELECTRONICS.

You would think someone on this board who can fix these boxes and is fair in pricing. Could make a nice side business.

Those rates you quoted are for brick and mortar type places. Not for someone who wants to help fellow board members.

I am not saying to do it free. I am saying be transparent and helpful or don't bother at all.

When I do a favor it is from the heart.

You would think someone on this board who can fix these boxes and is fair in pricing. Could make a nice side business.



Well it certainly would not be a nice side business if you were the customer.

You seem to think they should be really low cost to fix. Sorry, but it's not just a matter of what parts cost, it's also the time spent diagnosing the problem and then doing the repair. Contrary to what you seem to think, someones time spent and labor is worth something when doing any sort of repairs.

I think the constant daily thermal cycling from a cold start to warm and cold again, over and over is worse than leaving it plugged in, turned off in standby mode. I speak as a retired consumer electronics technician with over 30 years experience. My Pal's been plugged in for about two years. Sometimes when power supply components begin to fail like electrolytic capacitors, they won't start showing symptoms until it's been completely powered down, like a no power supply startup condition for example. Anyway good luck with it, I am pretty sure I won't change your mind.

I guess I'll find out eventually if my reasoning has any merit. I'm just going by 40 years of experience with consumer electronics. Heat is a great destroyer. Components are not made to last, repair shop technicians are trained to replace parts, not fix them as you did 30 years ago. When and if my units fail, I'll have no recourse except to spend $300 or more on buying a new PAL, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
Look at the example of LuvMyDVR33 - two units failed in a single day, totally unacceptable.

it's not just a matter of what parts cost, it's also the time spent diagnosing the problem and then doing the repair . . . someones time spent and labor is worth something when doing any sort of repairs.That is especially true when one considers that you are not paying for just any generic persons time but for someone who has the SKILLS and equipment to do the job you can't. The cost of skilled labor generally exceeds the cost of materials -- often by great margin. Some people just don't get that.

Yes, I can get my money back from Square Trade, but in that case a unit that has only been used about 60 days will never get a chance at being anything but trash, and I will never be able to watch the recorded shows that were on that hard drive. :mad:
At least now I feel like I have tried my best to resolve this the way I wanted it to go.
ChannelMaster rep took my phone number a few days ago, and a tech actually called me back, even though I don't own one of their DVRs. I'm still rather shocked at that, especially how nice he was on the phone, chatting like he had all the time in the world.
He told me that DVRs under warranty are replaced right away with a new or refurbed unit. Broken ones are sent overseas to be evaluated. There isn't even one repair shop in the USA that he knows of. If the unit can be fixed, they send it back to ChannelMaster to use as a refurb. They never just fix one and send the same one back to the customer.
I asked about the recordings, and he says they don't get corrupted like on a computer hard drive, so would still be there if I could transfer it to another working DVR.
The problems I described with my 2 DVRs, he said sound like power supply and capacitor issues, and that if I could talk a local shop into checking them out, parts would be easy to obtain to fix them, they are nothing special that would have to come from ChannelMaster or Dish. But I would have to find a shop that has some kind of diagnostic equipment (I forgot what he called it-a system analyzer?) and convince them it would be possible to fix. I am going to try calling around eventually to check into that for the one that isn't under warranty.
Now I know that even if I buy a CM7000Pal, my recordings are going to be lost even if the unit dies under warranty. Will never again save anything on a DVR that I think I want to save permanently. Good thing I haven't gotten rid of my DVD recorders, because now I know they are extremely necessary to someone like me who likes to keep copies of certain shows.

It's been my theory that power supply and capacitor issues are primarily responsible for these units breaking down, other than a dead hard drive.
I would also guess the reason broken units are sent overseas is the cheaper cost of labor and parts. I did the same thing, calling local repair shops trying to get my one broken unit fixed, to no avail.
Also agree DVD recorders are a necessity as far as archiving important material.
There might be some way to preserve those lost recordings..... I believe these DVR's use some sort of proprietary Linux operating system, if you know someone with a Linux based computer, maybe the files can be read and transferred to such a computer, then you'd be at least able to view them or possibly transfer the videos from the computer to a DVD recorder.

You would think someone on this board who can fix these boxes and is fair in pricing. Could make a nice side business.

Those rates you quoted are for brick and mortar type places. Not for someone who wants to help fellow board members.

I am not saying to do it free. I am saying be transparent and helpful or don't bother at all.

When I do a favor it is from the heart.

I agree with you whole heartedly ( no pun intended )
Too bad we can't have "side bar" discussions on these off topics.... without getting thrown off the board or having your posts deleted.

I agree with you whole heartedly ( no pun intended )
Too bad we can't have "side bar" discussions on these off topics.... without getting thrown off the board or having your posts deleted.

lol You might be the first to agree.

Just curious. How is finding out how or where to fix this DishDVR a sidebar discussion? I think it is about this unit and thus apart of the discussion.

The break down of these units are unacceptable. People think $300 or $350 is throw away Item. I personally think it is a lot of money for a unit that breaks down and has no real warranty or support.

I would love to see on the first page. Instructions for loss of power and other items that go wrong.

How is finding out how or where to fix this DishDVR a sidebar discussion? I think it is about this unit and thus apart of the discussion.

The break down of these units are unacceptable. People think $300 or $350 is throw away Item. I personally think it is a lot of money for a unit that breaks down and has no real warranty or support.

I would love to see on the first page. Instructions for loss of power and other items that go wrong.

Absolutely this is NOT off topic. There is not much else to say anymore about this product otherwise. Anyone who bought one of the first ones from Dish has already had theirs die, or sad to say, it's going to happen to them soon. If you are still reading this forum topic, you don't need to know how to set it up or use it, that's OLD news. Now is a great time to start discussing breakdown and what we can do about it. Maybe someone will be able to convince a repair shop that there is a need for at least diagnostics to tell us if what is broken is repairable. If they knew how many of us would use this service, it would be worth it for someone maybe to learn more about the unit. If they were the only one in the USA to repair the DTVPal, and we could "advertise" for that shop here, it could be kept busy working on all the ones that would otherwise be scrapped.
Something that is $100 is "throwaway", not $300. You can't even consider the price you paid for the one you have as what you are losing when it breaks, because if you want to replace it, and have no warranty, it's most likely going to cost you even more than that, because it's harder to find a Dish unit now, and a Channel Master is going to cost more. I have that issue now even with the one under warranty. If I get my money back from Square Trade, I will still be out more money because I can't buy a Channel Master without spending more money than I get back from the warranty.
It's totally ridiculous for a company to assume the consumer won't want to get a $300 unit repaired, and for the price they charged for them, it's criminal that they didn't build them to last longer, and only gave a 90 day warranty!

I guess I'll find out eventually if my reasoning has any merit. I'm just going by 40 years of experience with consumer electronics. Heat is a great destroyer. Components are not made to last, repair shop technicians are trained to replace parts, not fix them as you did 30 years ago. When and if my units fail, I'll have no recourse except to spend $300 or more on buying a new PAL, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
Look at the example of LuvMyDVR33 - two units failed in a single day, totally unacceptable.
I also turn my DTVPal off at night between 11:30pm and 6:30am via a timer. But I do it because I know the HD won't spin down and that is the most likely piece to fail. If I find I can duplicate my drive's contents onto another drive as a backup (maybe with the Clonzilla or other software mentioned above) then I'll probably leave it running. Remember, archiving to a DVD recorder is not preserving your Hi-Def programs as Hi-def.

As for LuvMyDVR33, both units fail at same time? Sounds like a spike coming into the house that was not enough to trigger a fuse, just mess up sensitive electronics. Maybe a good surge protector or line conditioner? It just seems very unlikely for 2 units to fail in a single day.

(...) It just seems very unlikely for 2 units to fail in a single day.
I agree.

We do not know if it is $100 or $10. He didn't say.

Of course depending on what is broke. That will make the price go up or down.

Not an insult to ask a range. Would think all legit owners would be interested in knowing.

We never did get a price for labor. That I would think would be in a short range.

The thing I found insulting was the statement that more than $10 was robbery, maybe that was a joke but it told me you put little value on the unique (no one else is even suggesting they might be able to fix it) skills he is offering.

He did say about 1/3 of the cost of the product which is where I got $100.

Absolutely this is NOT off topic. There is not much else to say anymore about this product otherwise. Anyone who bought one of the first ones from Dish has already had theirs die, or sad to say, it's going to happen to them soon. If you are still reading this forum topic, you don't need to know how to set it up or use it, that's OLD news. Now is a great time to start discussing breakdown and what we can do about it. Maybe someone will be able to convince a repair shop that there is a need for at least diagnostics to tell us if what is broken is repairable. If they knew how many of us would use this service, it would be worth it for someone maybe to learn more about the unit. If they were the only one in the USA to repair the DTVPal, and we could "advertise" for that shop here, it could be kept busy working on all the ones that would otherwise be scrapped.
Something that is $100 is "throwaway", not $300. You can't even consider the price you paid for the one you have as what you are losing when it breaks, because if you want to replace it, and have no warranty, it's most likely going to cost you even more than that, because it's harder to find a Dish unit now, and a Channel Master is going to cost more. I have that issue now even with the one under warranty. If I get my money back from Square Trade, I will still be out more money because I can't buy a Channel Master without spending more money than I get back from the warranty.
It's totally ridiculous for a company to assume the consumer won't want to get a $300 unit repaired, and for the price they charged for them, it's criminal that they didn't build them to last longer, and only gave a 90 day warranty!

I could not agree more. There might be a day or year that I need to get this fixed. My aunt who I go this for. Loves it. She would never pay $350 for a new channelMaster. If this broke and could not be fixed cheaply (parts and shipping, low labor) She would go back to the Dishpal box with no DVR. I have to admit that the DVR with FR208 is much more stable then the DISHPAL box FR101 or the DishPALPlus Fr103 that we also have. The Dishpal's had all the problems you guys talk about with the DVR Fr201 to Fr208. Change in Time and many other problems.

So it is in my (aunt's) best interest to have a place that I can send it to be fixed or an amateur hobbyist from this board who would be willing to at least tell us what is wrong.

A better resource would be the first page on this board. They have how to replace the HD with ones that work (list) In great detail with pictures.

Why not have a list of possible things that have gone wrong and detailed fixes. Or at least teach us how to diagnose these DVRs.

This would be a great service to people who have and love these boxes.

What someone charges for making repairs can depend a LOT on why he is doing repairs in the first place...

Is he a professional or an amateur/hobbyist? That is, does he do electronic repair for a living? Or is he involved some other profession, so that taking time out to do an electronic repair would cut into his paid professional time?

A professional needs to charge enough to justify his time and expense; an amateur or hobbyist can do as he likes.


For many years I have been doing repairs for friends on both musical instruments (violins, guitars, dulcimers, etc.) and electronics components.

I am a physician (now retired), and so should be classified as an amateur as far as making such repairs. I never charged "labor" for making repairs; I have always charged only for the parts/supplies needed for the work.


If I would have charged for the repairs (while still working) I would have had to charge a pretty penny to compensate for taking time away from my professional activities. But I always considered repair work a hobby, the work being done in my spare time.

I still do not charge for my time now that I am retired, because I really enjoy the activity, and also because I consider making the repairs a learning opportunity.



So... If I offered to take a look at a broken DTVPal for a friend, I would open it up and try to figure out what is wrong. If I couldn't figure it out, or found the repair was beyond my capabilities (can anyone actually troubleshoot or desolder/replace a surface-mount IC by hand?) I would put the thing back together and not charge for the troubleshooting time.

If I could do the repair, I would charge just for the parts, shipping, etc.


A professional has to charge the going rate, either for electronic repair or for whatever he figures his time is worth.

Ken

I do understand you have to know the problem to know what it would cost to fix. I would hate to spend time and money to ship it to someone and find out later that their labor was $200.


I am hoping that a hobbyist who is kind and willing to teach us small fixes and/or fix them for us.

I do not know if this will help or how the poster who lost 2 boxes due to power failure has done what I am doing. I have the DVR plugged into a powerstrip with its own breaker in it. I am wondering if that poster had the boxes plugged into the wall and he had a power surge. I wonder if a power strip is protection against this? To be honest I put in the power strip when she had the DishpalPlus. It would need to be unplugged once a month due to freezing. So I did not want her to bend down and fall.

I would say about those as a ball park.
Min would incurred a cost of s/h and insurance and diagnostics time (say $30), max I would estimate as half price of the DVR if it would include comprehensive tasks like BGA rework.


PM if you willing to discard your Pal DVR ... Or ...
I missed your post before I answered the two above.

Hey thanks for being straight forward. So $30 for diagnostics time? Would that $30 be deducted if you decide to fix the unit? If so I think that is fair and reasonable.

BGA stands for?

max I would estimate as half price of the DVR if it would include comprehensive tasks like BGA rework.

Would that be including all parts and a new HD if needed?

I am also guessing that if you had multiple broken Dvr's. A discount could be worked out?

I guess persistence pays off lol

Thanks for answering me. I am much more comfortable with the numbers.

Would also be nice to have a resource on the first page. Telling us how to make simple fixes or how to diagnose it for you or any repairman.

PS No insults intended.

Google it...

BGA= Ball Grid Array. If P Smith can change one of those he is not just a hobbyist, he has expensive highly specialized equipment.

I agree.

They didn't die on the same day. Someone else just got confused and said they did.
There were several weeks in between the failures, and they were on different power strips also, one downstairs and one upstairs, nowhere near each other.

They didn't die on the same day. Someone else just got confused and said they did.
There were several weeks in between the failures, and they were on different power strips also, one downstairs and one upstairs, nowhere near each other.
Hmmm. :confused:

I do not know if this will help or how the poster who lost 2 boxes due to power failure has done what I am doing. I have the DVR plugged into a powerstrip with its own breaker in it. I am wondering if that poster had the boxes plugged into the wall and he had a power surge. I wonder if a power strip is protection against this? To be honest I put in the power strip when she had the DishpalPlus. It would need to be unplugged once a month due to freezing. So I did not want her to bend down and fall.

Both of mine WERE in powerstrips. The breakers didn't trip, and other things plugged into the strip are fine.
More than one person has guessed that the power supply in the DVR died, or a capacitor. Keep the power strip just in case, but it doesn't protect against parts failure.
Also, you need to keep the dust out, because the symptoms of the first one were the same as someone described where they cleaned out the dust inside and their unit worked again. Mine was full of dust bunnies, but unfortunately a good cleaning didn't resuscitate. I thought maybe the dust caused it to overheat some part that the fan wasn't able to help because of also being covered with dust. Maybe it had even stopped turning. Back then I didn't even know to keep an eye on the fan. Learned a lot in the last few weeks thanks to forums like this and helpful people I've talked to on the phone. :)

Both of mine WERE in powerstrips. The breakers didn't trip, and other things plugged into the strip are fine.
More than one person has guessed that the power supply in the DVR died, or a capacitor. Keep the power strip just in case, but it doesn't protect against parts failure.
Also, you need to keep the dust out, because the symptoms of the first one were the same as someone described where they cleaned out the dust inside and their unit worked again. Mine was full of dust bunnies, but unfortunately a good cleaning didn't resuscitate. I thought maybe the dust caused it to overheat some part that the fan wasn't able to help because of also being covered with dust. Maybe it had even stopped turning. Back then I didn't even know to keep an eye on the fan. Learned a lot in the last few weeks thanks to forums like this and helpful people I've talked to on the phone. :)Is the fan easy to see without opening the case and replace when needed? My room gets very dusty easily. I do know my computers can get very dusty after a year or more.

Is the fan easy to see without opening the case and replace when needed? My room gets very dusty easily. I do know my computers can get very dusty after a year or more.

Get a bright flashlight. The fan is on the left. You will feel the breeze if you put your hand near it. It pulls in dust and pushes it over the hard drive and boards, and you'll feel hot air on the right side where it comes out minus the dust that has stayed behind. :(
I was planning to put a vacuum attachment over the left side by the fan occasionally to suck out any dust on the blades.

You should vacuum both vents, left and right.

Get a bright flashlight. The fan is on the left. You will feel the breeze if you put your hand near it. It pulls in dust and pushes it over the hard drive and boards, and you'll feel hot air on the right side where it comes out minus the dust that has stayed behind. :(
I was planning to put a vacuum attachment over the left side by the fan occasionally to suck out any dust on the blades.Thanks. I see the spinning fan. Is it supposed to be always on? I thought it was controlled by temperatures. DTV Pal is currently idled (not in used). I can feel warm air on the right vent. It's about 72-73F degrees in my room. I hope it can handle the heat waves when my room temperature can go almost up to 90F degrees. Another reason why I am planning to turn it off during the summer when nothing is on TV. ;)

So what type of fan does this DTV Pal have? I couldn't find the internal photographs/photos (saw them before) in the first post in this thread. Is it a standard 80mm fans like in PC cases?

They didn't die on the same day. Someone else just got confused and said they did.
There were several weeks in between the failures, and they were on different power strips also, one downstairs and one upstairs, nowhere near each other.

Sorry, I thought I remembered reading you said both units were working the night before, and then they both stopped working the next day.....
At my age, being confused is commonplace....:rolleyes:

Sorry, I thought I remembered reading you said both units were working the night before, and then they both stopped working the next day.....
At my age, being confused is commonplace....:rolleyes:Been there, done that and forever until I am dead. :)

lol You might be the first to agree.

Just curious. How is finding out how or where to fix this DishDVR a sidebar discussion? I think it is about this unit and thus apart of the discussion.

The break down of these units are unacceptable. People think $300 or $350 is throw away Item. I personally think it is a lot of money for a unit that breaks down and has no real warranty or support.

I would love to see on the first page. Instructions for loss of power and other items that go wrong.

When I first broached this subject last year, I was chastised for not going in accordance with instructions in this forum that said essentially, "dead units cannot be repaired"..... people were more concerned with working unit problems and more or less told me..... get lost, you idiot.
I am not the type of person who gives up..... on anything, but no one was interested in discussing repairs.

Now all of a sudden some 'expert' shows up hinting some things can be repaired without giving any useful info, or doing what was suggested,
giving repair quotes to members in need. To me the DTVPal DVR is just a simple computer with a tuner, IC chips and a cheaply made power supply.

So, logic follows, a mainboard problem is unlikely to be able to be repaired
without serious technical expertise; a failed hard drive is an easy
replacement, but a bad power supply is difficult to diagnose without the
proper equipment and availability of replacement parts.

It would be ideal if someone here would be willing to spend their free time
diagnosing non-working units and giving honest repair estimates, but something tells me that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.....

When I first broached this subject last year, I was chastised for not going in accordance with instructions in this forum that said essentially, "dead units cannot be repaired"..... people were more concerned with working unit problems and more or less told me..... get lost, you idiot.
I am not the type of person who gives up..... on anything, but no one was interested in discussing repairs.

Now all of a sudden some 'expert' shows up hinting some things can be repaired without giving any useful info, or doing what was suggested,
giving repair quotes to members in need. To me the DTVPal DVR is just a simple computer with a tuner, IC chips and a cheaply made power supply.

So, logic follows, a mainboard problem is unlikely to be able to be repaired
without serious technical expertise; a failed hard drive is an easy
replacement, but a bad power supply is difficult to diagnose without the
proper equipment and availability of replacement parts.

It would be ideal if someone here would be willing to spend their free time
diagnosing non-working units and giving honest repair estimates, but something tells me that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.....
Wow and they call me harsh and insulting. lol You are in for it lol

But I totally agree with you. I like being straight forward. If you can help in the spirt of helping then fine. No one expects free work ,but a resource in helping to diagnose problems and fix easy ones on their own would be a great first page addition.

When I told my aunt the other day that these units break down and a new one could cost $300 to $350. She is like that is too much money. What will I do? Then she did not sound happy going back the Dishpals (non Dvr)

So simple fixes should not cost much. Especially for the elderly. She asked me when she would know if there was a problem. She said she now had a signal problem because the antenna dropped to the floor. I said I would fix it when I come over or ask the painter who was coming to pick it up. I said that was not a problem I was talking about. I said major non working DVRs. Though a new hard drive is a semi easy fix. These break downs waiting to happen make her nervous.

You know for the elderly these boxes should be more reliable. People on fixed incomes should not have to buy $350 replacement units.

I would hope that a fixing resource would happen on this board. I would say it is well apart of the discussion. It is about the DVR.

It is important to have this fixing resource. I had a problem with my printer. Called HP all they did was try to sell me a discounted NEW printer. I went to a forum like this one and found out it was a simple HOT water soak of the printer head. Saved me hundreds.

Dish will never want to help us for the same reason, neither would channel master.

We have to help each other.

Wow and they call me harsh and insulting. lol You are in for it lol

But I totally agree with you. I like being straight forward. If you can help in the spirt of helping then fine. No one expects free work ,but a resource in helping to diagnose problems and fix easy ones on their own would be a great first page addition.

When I told my aunt the other day that these units break down and a new one could cost $300 to $350. She is like that is too much money. What will I do? Then she did not sound happy going back the the Dishpals (non Dvr)

So simple fixes should not cost much. Especially for the elderly. She asked me when she would know if there was a problem. She said she now had a signal problem because the antenna dropped to the floor. I said I would fix it when I come over or ask the painter who was coming to pick it up. I said that was not a problem I was talking about. I said major non working DVRs. Though a new hard drive is a semi easy fix. These break downs waiting to happen make her nervous.

You know for the elderly these boxes should be more reliable. People on fixed incomes should not have to buy $350 replacement units.

I would hope that a fixing resource would happen on this board. i would say it is well apart of the discussion. It is about the DVR.

It is important to have this fixing resource. I had a problem with my printer. Called HP all they did was try to sell me a discounted NEW printer. I went to a forum like this one and found out it was a simple HOT water soak of the printer head. Saved me hundreds.

Dish will never want to help us for the same reason, neither would channel master.I agree these stuff are costly. I have old stuff that still work over a decade like my Sharp 20" CRT TV from 1996, VCR from dotcom days, etc. I wonder how long my DTV Pal DVR will last. Oh well, at least I got as a Christmas+birthday present. DTV Pal (non-DVR) sucks badly. I heard TiVo 3 had problems too. Ugh.

When I first broached this subject last year, I was chastised for not going in accordance with instructions in this forum that said essentially, "dead units cannot be repaired"..... people were more concerned with working unit problems and more or less told me..... get lost, you idiot . . . So, logic follows, a mainboard problem is unlikely to be able to be repaired without serious technical expertise; a failed hard drive is an easy replacement, but a bad power supply is difficult to diagnose without the proper equipment and availability of replacement parts.

So simple fixes should not cost much.If you are willing to pay enough, you can always find someone somewhere who will fix if for you. Most people are not willing to pay $100-200 to fix a $300 device that is a year old which is why there are so few repair shops. The only "simple" repairs are the ones you can do yourself. If you can't do it yourself and require the services of someone with skills and equipment you should assume the repair is neither "simple" nor something that can be done "cheaply". Then add on the fact that parts are not available.

By the time you pay for all of this, even if it is a simple repair, you are probably better off spending a few dollars more and buying a new unit if they are available.

Only those of us who are do it yourselfers, who are tech savy enough to open the case, and replace a fan or a hard drive might get away with not buying a new unit.

My humble opinion.

By the way, for those who can, I would highly recommend, as I have previously on this forum, that the case be open once a year for a thorough cleaning of dust buildup on the inside.

I had been vacuuming the outside and was surprised to still find lots of dust buildup on the inside when I replaced the hard drive. My 2 are just about due for a thorough cleaning soon.

"Both of them just died when they weren't being used. Both F208. Had no problems the night before when using them, then found them dead the next day"..
I think this statement is why people including myself thought they both failed simultaneously.

BTW about heat... I measured mine, it blows about 15°F warmer air out the right side, 80° in and 95° out. Components used will be rated at probably 85°C (185F) to 105°C (221°F), so I doubt heat is an issue unless the fan stops.

My Pal sits on top of a Dish ViP722 satellite receiver too, so it gets pre-warmed a little. I did add some taller feet to the Pal to make about 3/4" space between them. I noticed the Dish receiver blows air through R to L, opposite the Pal. I need to take both apart and blow out the dust.

By the time you pay for all of this, even if it is a simple repair, you are probably better off spending a few dollars more and buying a new unit if they are available.

Only those of us who are do it yourselfers, who are tech savy enough to open the case, and replace a fan or a hard drive might get away with not buying a new unit.

My humble opinion.

By the way, for those who can, I would highly recommend, as I have previously on this forum, that the case be open once a year for a thorough cleaning of dust buildup on the inside.

I had been vacuuming the outside and was surprised to still find lots of dust buildup on the inside when I replaced the hard drive. My 2 are just about due for a thorough cleaning soon.
If I recall correctly, when the units were under original warranty, opening the case would void the warranty.

Does anyone know if opening the case would void the Squaretrade warranty?

My experience talking to their customer service reps has not been very productive. I recently checked my account and found that they don't show the model number and serial numbers of my units. I sent in the documentation and also gave the info to customer service, still not on the website.

Speaking of cleaning inside due to dust. How often did you guys have to do it? How about replacing its fans?

If I recall correctly, when the units were under original warranty, opening the case would void the warranty.

Does anyone know if opening the case would void the Squaretrade warranty?

My experience talking to their customer service reps has not been very productive. I recently checked my account and found that they don't show the model number and serial numbers of my units. I sent in the documentation and also gave the info to customer service, still not on the website.

I've always wondered how anyone would even be able to tell you opened the case, if you do it gently. There's no seal on it that gets broken, and no one would suspect an owner would try to open it, so if you don't mention it, and don't do anything besides clean out dust, I don't see how they would know. And hopefully cleaning out dust will prevent you from needing to use the warranty.
You can edit details on your warranties yourself. Go to Manage My Warranties and play around with anything clickable. I was able to change the name of the item, put in serial number, etc.

I'd like to inform anyone here - I regret to posting any info about myself fixing the device. God knows how long I did keep this for myself, but last days I found its revealing brought more harm then help. So, I did delete my related posts and asking to forget the point. You can count my participation here as an exercise in pure technical discussion from now on, no more then that.

We use the word "disposable" quite a bit in this forum for our little DVR. Doesn't that assume that there is a replacement? I do not necessarily consider the Channel Master as a replacement for various reasons, the big one being its TV GUIDE only reaches out 12 hours (from what I heard).

If we consider that there is no "replacement" wouldn't 1) the discussion of fixing ours be even more important and 2) the cost we would be willing to pay go up?

(...) its TV GUIDE only reaches out 12 hours (from what I heard).

That's incorrect. It goes out an average of eight days.

That's incorrect. It goes out an average of eight days.Do I assume we can't force longer like two weeks like with those online TV guides?

Do I assume we can't force longer like two weeks like with those online TV guides?
Yes. The maximum this box shows is eight days.

Yes. The maximum this box shows is eight days.Thanks. Bummer on that eight days. :/

That's incorrect. It goes out an average of eight days.

I think it depends on what the individual channels put out. In my area the NBC and MyTV affiliates put out a full week in the guide. All the rest of the channels only give me 8-24 hours. CBS is the worst, I only get 8-12 hours on the guide so I can forget about setting something to record unless I check the schedule somewhere else. It's really annoying, especially given that the CBS affiliate is the one that broadcasts TVGOS.

I think it depends on what the individual channels put out. In my area the NBC and MyTV affiliates put out a full week in the guide. All the rest of the channels only give me 8-24 hours. CBS is the worst, I only get 8-12 hours on the guide so I can forget about setting something to record unless I check the schedule somewhere else. It's really annoying, especially given that the CBS affiliate is the one that broadcasts TVGOS.Interesting. I am in L.A. Mine seems to go far as a week.

By the time you pay for all of this, even if it is a simple repair, you are probably better off spending a few dollars more and buying a new unit if they are available.

Only those of us who are do it yourselfers, who are tech savy enough to open the case, and replace a fan or a hard drive might get away with not buying a new unit.

My humble opinion.

By the way, for those who can, I would highly recommend, as I have previously on this forum, that the case be open once a year for a thorough cleaning of dust buildup on the inside.

I had been vacuuming the outside and was surprised to still find lots of dust buildup on the inside when I replaced the hard drive. My 2 are just about due for a thorough cleaning soon.

Well why can't there be on page one. Instructions for simple repairs. Like broken fan or no power?

Surely someone has the knowlegde and the kindness to share that information.

Well why can't there be on page one. Instructions for simple repairs. Like broken fan or no power?

Surely someone has the knowlegde and the kindness to share that information.I would vote for that. Can't we put it in the first post? :)

Well why can't there be on page one. Instructions for simple repairs. Like broken fan or no power?

Surely someone has the knowlegde and the kindness to share that information.

Tivo boxes certainly have a strong following that includes all sorts of upgrades/repairs. But I'm sure its has a much larger audience thus a larger pool of experts to tinker with it. I don't think this Pal has as much visibility nor does it seem to be lend itself to much tinkering(so far), other than hard drive upgrade.

However, I'm also all for that when someone does have some repair info, even if minor, it would be great to include/add it in the first post. We have it for hard drive upgrade, and maybe some other basic troubleshooting tips for other items, such as fans, lockups(prob already there under known issues), fuses etc.

Tivo boxes certainly has a strong following that includes all sorts of repairs. But I'm sure its a much larger audience thus a larger pool of experts to tinker with. I don't think this device has the much visibility here.

However, when someone does have some repair info, I agree, it would be great to include/add it in the first post. We have it for hard drive upgrade, and maybe some other basic troubleshooting tips.

Well that brings up a thought. Do you think the TIVO uses some of the same parts? Like the fan or power supply? Maybe the instructions for the Tivo work work for certain things? Maybe the Techs there would help us with additions to the first page?

Just a thought

Interesting. I am in L.A. Mine seems to go far as a week.If you're receiving the TVGOS guide, it's always 8 days, no more, no less (a TVGOS limitation). If you're receiving only the PSIP guides from the individual stations, it will vary by station, but the FCC only requires they send out maybe the next 12 hours worth, and not all stations comply with even that. Since the DTVPal DVR has a bug (see first post, Known Issue #6) that prevents it from acquiring TVGOS guide info for all stations that are sent out in a given area, most folks have a mixed bag - 8 days for some stations (from TVGOS), and considerably less for others (from individual stations' PSIP).

If you're receiving the TVGOS guide, it's always 8 days, no more, no less (a TVGOS limitation). If you're receiving only the PSIP guides from the individual stations, it will vary by station, but the FCC only requires they send out maybe the next 12 hours worth, and not all stations comply with even that. Since the DTVPal DVR has a bug (see first post, Known Issue #6) that prevents it from acquiring TVGOS guide info for all stations that are sent out in a given area, most folks have a mixed bag - 8 days for some stations (from TVGOS), and considerably less for others (from individual stations' PSIP).Ah thanks. :)

I don't think this Pal has as much visibility nor does it seem to be lend itself to much tinkering(so far), other than hard drive upgrade.Considering the nonsensical gymnastics one has to go through just to get the box open, I would say it was expressly designed to discourage any sort of end-user tinkering.

Wow and they call me harsh and insulting. lol You are in for it lol

But I totally agree with you. I like being straight forward. If you can help in the spirt of helping then fine. No one expects free work ,but a resource in helping to diagnose problems and fix easy ones on their own would be a great first page addition.

When I told my aunt the other day that these units break down and a new one could cost $300 to $350. She is like that is too much money. What will I do? Then she did not sound happy going back the Dishpals (non Dvr)

So simple fixes should not cost much. Especially for the elderly. She asked me when she would know if there was a problem. She said she now had a signal problem because the antenna dropped to the floor. I said I would fix it when I come over or ask the painter who was coming to pick it up. I said that was not a problem I was talking about. I said major non working DVRs. Though a new hard drive is a semi easy fix. These break downs waiting to happen make her nervous.

You know for the elderly these boxes should be more reliable. People on fixed incomes should not have to buy $350 replacement units.

I would hope that a fixing resource would happen on this board. I would say it is well apart of the discussion. It is about the DVR.

It is important to have this fixing resource. I had a problem with my printer. Called HP all they did was try to sell me a discounted NEW printer. I went to a forum like this one and found out it was a simple HOT water soak of the printer head. Saved me hundreds.

Dish will never want to help us for the same reason, neither would channel master.

We have to help each other.
I wouldn't think of a $200-350 product as a throwaway but let's get real. There are probably less than 200 folks that post to this forum about the DVR and probably no more than 200 others that read and don't post. Multiply by even 10 and you are probably looking at a max of 4,000 users in the entire country (and probably a lot less) of the Dish DTVPal DVR. No company is going to support such a small number - it's unprofitable. This is why this DVR died so quickly - it never caught on because less than 10% of the households utilized OTA broadcasts -before the recent digital conversion. The number now is probably half that now because when the conversion happened, payTV providers picked up a lot of new customers. (I know awhile back someone estimated the numbers of Dish DVRs manufactured, but I believe that the majority of people gave up on the units and returned/trashed them because of the initial problems or they were never sold in the first place.)
I think we all realize that the Channel Master DVR will go the way of our Dish DTVPal DVR. Another year it will be history! We OTAs' are a dying breed! Let's just enjoy it why we have it because it soon will be gone. I mean FREE OTA and the OTA DVR. Don't you think that Comcast's recent purchase of a broadcasting network will lead to the end of "FREE" OTA broadcasting? What motivation do they have to broadcast over-the-air when they can charge with cable and pricey agreements with SAT providers? It's all about money - afterall, this is America. Truth be, cable itself is a dying product. Look at landline phones! They are on their way out. Last week, the news headline was that there are now more cell phones in use than landlines (that includes millions of business landlines). I finally ditched my landline because I was making less than a dollar's worth of calls and paying around $20 for them! -It is not cost efficient to maintain all those lines and poles for phone company or Comcast (or other Cable company). They will switch to OTA but not free OTA. Just as you can now watch TV shows on your wireless phone, you soon will be watching on your home TV the same way. I know, you can already, but I mean this will be the OTA of tomorrow...internet hotspots throughout the country or something similiar. Your children will wonder what you mean when speaking of "free" tv...oh wait, they do already! Do you know anyone under the age of 45 who uses OTA broadcasting? I don't.

A sidebar to this: Remember the days when commercials were the revenue generator for "free" TV and the FCC tightly controlled how many minutes per hour and their intervals? Then came cable and at first, I seem to remember, without commercials! (You were already paying for the cable service). It didn't take too long for that to end. Then broadcast TV went to fewer and fewer minutes of actual shows and more and more ads. Look at it now. Almost 1/3 of every hour is commercials. And I just noticed in the last few days something new...ads for products being flashed overtop the scenes of a program while the show is running. For some time I have seen networks advertise their own brief blurbs for shows at the bottom of the screen during programming. Now it is expanding to regular ads! In America, money is King!

I know the Moderator will probably remove this post. I guess I just had to vent my frustration with the way things are going. My age is showing!

We OTAs' are a dying breed! Let's just enjoy it why we have it because it soon will be gone. I mean FREE OTA and the OTA DVR. Don't you think that Comcast's recent purchase of a broadcasting network will lead to the end of "FREE" OTA broadcasting? What motivation do they have to broadcast over-the-air when they can charge with cable and pricey agreements with SAT providers? It's all about money - afterall, this is America. Truth be, cable itself is a dying product. Look at landline phones! They are on their way out. Last week, the news headline was that there are now more cell phones in use than landlines (that includes millions of business landlines). I finally ditched my landline because I was making less than a dollar's worth of calls and paying around $20 for them! -It is not cost efficient to maintain all those lines and poles for phone company or Comcast (or other Cable company). They will switch to OTA but not free OTA. Just as you can now watch TV shows on your wireless phone, you soon will be watching on your home TV the same way. I know, you can already, but I mean this will be the OTA of tomorrow...internet hotspots throughout the country or something similiar. Your children will wonder what you mean when speaking of "free" tv...oh wait, they do already! Do you know anyone under the age of 45 who uses OTA broadcasting? I don't.

I certainly hope you're wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it. Digital OTA is a huge breakthrough. I get a dozen or so channels (including subchannels) with better-than-cable picture quality and essentially perfect reception even though I'm about 70 miles from some of the transmitters. I have no intention of paying for TV. If de facto bribery in Washington causes Congress to eliminate OTA, I will try Internet-only viewing.

A sidebar to this: Remember the days when commercials were the revenue generator for "free" TV and the FCC tightly controlled how many minutes per hour and their intervals? Then came cable and at first, I seem to remember, without commercials! (You were already paying for the cable service). It didn't take too long for that to end. Then broadcast TV went to fewer and fewer minutes of actual shows and more and more ads. Look at it now. Almost 1/3 of every hour is commercials. And I just noticed in the last few days something new...ads for products being flashed overtop the scenes of a program while the show is running. For some time I have seen networks advertise their own brief blurbs for shows at the bottom of the screen during programming. Now it is expanding to regular ads! In America, money is King!

I do remember, and that's why I'll never pay for cable. The price is ridiculous when it's primarily for delivery (as an alternative to putting up an antenna) and the actual program content is paid for by commercials. If I could choose a dozen or so channels (commercial-free if possible) and pay a modest fee a la carte, I might do that. But I won't pay big fees for delivery (often shoddy) of commercial programming. I wish there were some way to demonstrate to the cable-hypnotized masses just how easy and wonderful OTA is in the digital age. I do think many people near large cities with several broadcast stations are discovering OTA and refusing to continue as cash cows in the cable company herd. I hope more people will wake up.

...Then broadcast TV went to fewer and fewer minutes of actual shows and more and more ads. Look at it now. Almost 1/3 of every hour is commercials.

This is why I just don't understand two things:

1) Other than the fact that the DTVPal was never properly promoted, why haven't they (now the Channel Master CM-7000) been FLYING off the shelves?

2) Why aren't there 15 other competing units out there? Unless there is a problem with patents/licensing, this is a pretty simple concept, and would be dirt cheap for a manufacturer like Panasonic to produce! (I know, number of OTA watchers, economics, etc., but STILL...).

In the not-too-distant past every home had a VCR, mainly used to skip commercials. About three years ago (before the DTVPal existed) I went to a couple of the big-box electronics stores looking for a replacement for our VCR. Just about everyone I knew either had or was familiar with TIVO, and I just assumed that there would be such a thing as a similar device that recorded OTA programming to a hard disk instead of tape. I was FLABERGASTED when the sales guys looked at me blankly, and said there was no such thing. My thought was that any company that brought one to market would make a KILLING!

I found out about the still-in-development DTVPal while searching the internet for more information, and I placed my pre-order as soon as it arrived.

I think if any company but Dish Network had brought the DTVPal to market they would have promoted it a lot more effectively. I always thought it was unfortunate that Dish produced the Pal, thus competing with themselves!

I will give up my DTVPal when they PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!! :D

Ken

I do remember, and that's why I'll never pay for cable. The price is ridiculous when it's primarily for delivery (as an alternative to putting up an antenna) and the actual program content is paid for by commercials. If I could choose a dozen or so channels (commercial-free if possible) and pay a modest fee a la carte, I might do that. But I won't pay big fees for delivery (often shoddy) of commercial programming. I wish there were some way to demonstrate to the cable-hypnotized masses just how easy and wonderful OTA is in the digital age.

Hear, hear!!


The situation (increasing cable pricing, more commercials and deteriorating quality) will only get worse as long as people continue to take it right on the @$&, then bend over shouting "PLEASE SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!?!.

And the same goes for cell phone plans.

I mean, I hear nothing but constant bitching about increasing cost, deceasing service and quality, etc., and then people turn right around and BEG to be charged for more of the same! It seems there is no limit to what folks are willing to pay for their toys... :confused:

Unbelievable!

This is why I just don't understand two things:

1) Other than the fact that the DTVPal was never properly promoted, why haven't they (now the Channel Master CM-7000) been FLYING off the shelves?

2) Why aren't there 15 other competing units out there? Unless there is a problem with patents/licensing, this is a pretty simple concept, and would be dirt cheap for a manufacturer like Panasonic to produce! (I know, number of OTA watchers, economics, etc., but STILL...).

In the not-too-distant past every home had a VCR, mainly used to skip commercials. About three years ago (before the DTVPal existed) I went to a couple of the big-box electronics stores looking for a replacement for our VCR. Just about everyone I knew either had or was familiar with TIVO, and I just assumed that there would be such a thing as a similar device that recorded OTA programming to a hard disk instead of tape. I was FLABERGASTED when the sales guys looked at me blankly, and said there was no such thing. My thought was that any company that brought one to market would make a KILLING!


I had the exact same expectations and frustrations that you describe above. I think there are three reasons why mainstream consumer electronics companies have not marketed OTA DVRs:

1) Limited market - well discussed in prior posts

2) Potential patent/licensing issues. The long-running saga of the TIVO - Echostar lawsuit would probably be enough on its own to disuade the major players from jumping into this market. A small player like Dish/Echostar can afford to take a gamble on infringing TIVO's patents. First of all, they're already on the hook for the million DVR SAT boxes they've got in service, what's the incremental risk of selling a few thousand OTA DVRs? Negligible. Contrast that with the incremental legal risk that a Panasonic, Sony, or Samsung would be taking. They'd be selling far more units than Dish ever could, so they're legal risk would be going from "zero" to "significant" rather than Dish's case where it goes from "significant" to "significant +1".

3) The lack of a reliable guide. I don't think Panasonic, Sony or Samsung would want to invest the resources to provide their own guide service for their OTA DVR, and we now have 406 pages in this forum alone detailing the shortcomings of the freely available alternatives (TVGOS, PSIP, etc.). A mainstream company that marketed an OTA DVR that made use of either TVGOS or PSIP guide data could expect very heavy call volume on their customer service lines when frustrated end-users run into the kinds of problems we've had to deal with here in this forum. Dish had the luxury of simply ducking out of the OTA DVR business and shutting down what little customer support they ever offered for the DTVPal. In order to maintain their reputations, Sony or Panasonic would find themselves on the hook for years worth of calls from confused and frustrated customers. Of course they could sell a simple DVR that did not have a guide at all (manual timers only like a VCR), but I think most people under 45 would find such a machine too "stone-age" and most people over 60 would find it incomprehensible, just like they did with VCR timers! So again back to the "limited market" issue #1.

So for these 3 reasons, I think the majors simply decided that it's not worth it to jump into this business. You can see what happened when Sony tried it with the DHGs...

John

Both of mine WERE in powerstrips. ....

Just to point out the obvious, a powerstrip is not the same as a surge protector. Not sure which you meant. A surge protector attempts to block high voltage spikes that can damage your equipment. A powerstrip is basically an extension cord that may have a simple switch or at most a circuit breaker.

lol You might be the first to agree.

Just curious. How is finding out how or where to fix this DishDVR a sidebar discussion? I think it is about this unit and thus apart of the discussion.

The break down of these units are unacceptable. People think $300 or $350 is throw away Item. I personally think it is a lot of money for a unit that breaks down and has no real warranty or support.

I would love to see on the first page. Instructions for loss of power and other items that go wrong.

I paid a little over $100 for my Sonicare toothbrush which has been acting up. I just got off the phone with Philips. The thing comes with a two year warrentee. They said that they stopped making that model in 2007 but if I send the receipt showing the date they will replace it. It is a sealed unit so will be a throwaway but they still support their product.

Why should we expect anything less?

Why should we expect anything less?Because it was made clear that you couldn't before you even bought it?

....
What will I do? Then she did not sound happy going back the Dishpals (non Dvr)

....

It is not HD but one alternative for someone like you aunt might be to find a Pal+ and hook it up to an analog TVGOS equipped HDD/DVD recorder like the Panasonic DMR-E85 assuming you can find one someplace.

I think it depends on what the individual channels put out. In my area the NBC and MyTV affiliates put out a full week in the guide. All the rest of the channels only give me 8-24 hours. CBS is the worst, I only get 8-12 hours on the guide so I can forget about setting something to record unless I check the schedule somewhere else. It's really annoying, especially given that the CBS affiliate is the one that broadcasts TVGOS.

For some reason the DVR only displays TVGOS for what it considers the local market. If you are only getting between 8 hours and a few days that is PSIP being sent by the station. TVGOS should always be 8 days.

Of course they could sell a simple DVR that did not have a guide at all (manual timers only like a VCR)...Well, they still do sell at least one - the Magnavox 515 HDD/DVD recorder - but it's SD-only.

Because it was made clear that you couldn't before you even bought it?

Where was anything like that made clear? When I bought my first one, no one else had one yet. I had no idea there was only a 90 day warranty, I just ordered it because I needed something to watch digital TV on without buying a new TV, and this had everything I was looking for. For the price I was paying, I assumed the manufacturer was making sure it would last a long time, the way my VCRs and DVD recorders did.
I was mad that I was being forced to switch to a new kind of TV signal, and this Pal cheered me up for awhile. Now I'm really annoyed that I can't get it fixed anywhere even though my warranty covers repairs. I still think digital TV stinks, but not having my Pal anymore is even worse.
Since it is a lot like a computer, has anyone tried talking a computer repair shop into diagnosing problems with broken ones, instead of a shop that only works on things like DVD recorders?

I will give up my DTVPal when they PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!! :D

10-4!! You can count me in on that! :D

Hi fellows. First post in this forum.

My Phillips DVD recorder died and, rather than replacing it with a Magnavox HDD DVR, I'm considering getting the CM-7000PAL and have been lurking here, absorbing info. I have become somewhat concerned about the longevity, or lack thereof, of this DVR based on many of the recent posts.

I'm a guy who NEVER buys an extended warranty on anything, but this time I am thinking of rolling the dice, gambling that the thing won't last 3 years. Amazon peddles its 3-yr warranty (SquareTrade) for $48 and Wall-Mart offers 3-yr for $29.

I hate to toss money down the drain for a warranty if there's better than a 50/50 chance the thing will survive 3 years of normal usage. What do you recommend?

AJ

The original Dish version only had a 90 day warranty, while the Channel Master has 1 year.
I've had my Dish DVR since December 2008 and it still works perfectly.

Hi fellows. First post in this forum.

My Phillips DVD recorder died and, rather than replacing it with a Magnavox HDD DVR, I'm considering getting the CM-7000PAL and have been lurking here, absorbing info. I have become somewhat concerned about the longevity, or lack thereof, of this DVR based on many of the recent posts.

I'm a guy who NEVER buys an extended warranty on anything, but this time I am thinking of rolling the dice, gambling that the thing won't last 3 years. Amazon peddles its 3-yr warranty (SquareTrade) for $48 and Wall-Mart offers 3-yr for $29.

I hate to toss money down the drain for a warranty if there's better than a 50/50 chance the thing will survive 3 years of normal usage. What do you recommend?

AJ
I have 2 units working fine but I have had them for only 9 months. I bought a Square Trade warranty on one of them. If you've been reading this forum, then you know the extra $29 is worth it and Square Trade often has discounts on theirs of up to 50%. Search some shopper comparison websites or go to their site and signup for their email promotions. You do not need to buy the Square Trade at the time of purchase but I don't remember how long you have. Note that Square Trade covers from the date of purchase - not from the end of the included warranty. If you are getting a Channel Master with 1 year warranty , buy it with a credit card that doubles the warranty coverage. This beats the Square Trade hands down because it costs you nothing more for a 2nd year of coverage. (Of course, don't count on a Channel Master unit still being on the market to exchange a broken one and don't count on a repair - if you've read postings here - but at least you should get your money back-hopefully.:confused:

Hi fellows. First post in this forum.

My Phillips DVD recorder died and, rather than replacing it with a Magnavox HDD DVR, I'm considering getting the CM-7000PAL and have been lurking here, absorbing info. I have become somewhat concerned about the longevity, or lack thereof, of this DVR based on many of the recent posts.

AJ

The CM-7000PAL is HD, the Magnavox is not. I have the Dish version, never had trouble in 18 months and love it.

Hi fellows. First post in this forum.

My Phillips DVD recorder died and, rather than replacing it with a Magnavox HDD DVR, I'm considering getting the CM-7000PAL and have been lurking here, absorbing info. I have become somewhat concerned about the longevity, or lack thereof, of this DVR based on many of the recent posts.

I'm a guy who NEVER buys an extended warranty on anything, but this time I am thinking of rolling the dice, gambling that the thing won't last 3 years. Amazon peddles its 3-yr warranty (SquareTrade) for $48 and Wall-Mart offers 3-yr for $29.

I hate to toss money down the drain for a warranty if there's better than a 50/50 chance the thing will survive 3 years of normal usage. What do you recommend?

AJ

I think you should spend more time reading this forum..... the warranties sometimes only involve refunds, not getting another unit or getting it repaired.... presently there isn't anywhere to get either a DTVPal DVR or
the Channel Master CM7000 repaired if it breaks beyond the warranty period.
Definitely go for the extended warranty if you plan on buying one, but I
sure as hell wouldn't expect it to last 3 years..... just my opinion....
Also check WalMart's policy.... I bought my first Pal DVR at K-Mart, got the
extended 2 yr warranty, only to find out that if it breaks, I get a store credit
for the original purchase price.

If you're not into recording HDTV, I think the Magnavox is a better
option....... btw, there is an extensive AVS forum on the Philips/Magnavox machines dedicated to maintenance, repair, replacement of parts, and
the entire history of these units leading up to the present 500GB model.

Their online support sucks too when I tried to get help for both DTV Pal (non-DVR) and DTV Pal DVR. :(

This forum is a great help! I don't see why there is no help.

The reason there is no help is simple, no one has the SAMs or PhotoFacts or any other documentation and it is too hard (and illegal) to reverse engineer the thing. I think the amount of useless information people have offered in an attempt to be helpful pretty much puts the lie to the idea that no one wants to help. :D

I have one of the earliest units and it's still going strong. Admittedly, it's lightly used.

... the warranties sometimes only involve refunds, not getting another unit or getting it repaired.

btw, there is an extensive AVS forum on the Philips/Magnavox machines dedicated to maintenance, repair, replacement of parts, and
the entire history of these units leading up to the present 500GB model.

I would have no problem with getting a full refund in lieu of replacement. I'm only weighing the odds of the unit lasting 3 years vs. the cost of the warranty, and it's starting to look like the warranty is a no-brainer.

I've been watching the Philips/Maggie forum for over a year (I had a Philips that recently died). But, I've been spoiled by HD PQ, especially OTA, and my old SD DVD recordings don't look that great in comparison. Thus the CM-7000PAL looks appealing.

AJ

I would have no problem with getting a full refund in lieu of replacement. I'm only weighing the odds of the unit lasting 3 years vs. the cost of the warranty, and it's starting to look like the warranty is a no-brainer.

I've been watching the Philips/Maggie forum for over a year (I had a Philips that recently died). But, I've been spoiled by HD PQ, especially OTA, and my old SD DVD recordings don't look that great in comparison. Thus the CM-7000PAL looks appealing.

AJ

I agree- I've been 'spoiled' by the OTA HD picture quality ever since I got my DTVPal DVR's.... but for me I still need DVD recorders because in very inclement weather, my OTA reception goes to hell.
If you don't mind me asking, which Philips model do you have that died ?
what's wrong with it ?

...I've had my Dish DVR since December 2008 and it still works perfectly.

Perfectly?

Never had problem at DST?
Never had a reboot (since F208)?
Never had a late/early/dropped/partial/canceled recording?
Never had a recording go disappear?

If not, you won the lottery for this boxes. :)

Well that brings up a thought. Do you think the TIVO uses some of the same parts? Like the fan or power supply? Maybe the instructions for the Tivo work work for certain things? Maybe the Techs there would help us with additions to the first page?
Just a thought

When I talked to a ChannelMaster tech last week, he said most parts that break are not specific to that DVR, so wouldn't be hard to find.
The tech I talked to at WeakKnees.com said they only work on Tivos so he wouldn't be able to attempt a DTVPal repair.
Did you ask the techs you are referring to to help this thread? Don't limit yourself to asking questions in this thread, if you really want answers.

Perfectly?

Never had problem at DST?
Never had a reboot (since F208)?
Never had a late/early/dropped/partial/canceled recording?
Never had a recording go disappear?

If not, you won the lottery for this boxes. :)
OK, almost perfectly. ;)

Perfectly?

Never had problem at DST?
Never had a reboot (since F208)?
Never had a late/early/dropped/partial/canceled recording?
Never had a recording go disappear?

If not, you won the lottery for this boxes. :)

Ss_sea_ya was addressing Chuck44, but I got to thinking:

1. I've had my box only through two time changes (bought it in April of 2010) and have had no problems with named recordings at either of those transitions; but in all honesty both times I chickened out on the timer events, deleted them Saturday afternoon or evening before the change, and reentered them Sunday morning after the change.

2. Bought it with F208 installed, have had no reboots.

3. No late/early/partial recordings; two skipped recordings though: both times I had the output tuned to the channel to record from, set the event only a few minutes before it started, left the box on, and left the room and didn't see when the time came that it wasn't recording.  Both times the event showed as "Skipped."  Events set longer in advance, or set while another channel is in the foreground, or starting while the box is on standby have always recorded.

4. Nope, never had a recording disappear.

So I may not have won the lottery but maybe I won a lower-place prize for matching some of the lucky numbers.

...in very inclement weather, my OTA reception goes to hell.
If you don't mind me asking, which Philips model do you have that died ?
what's wrong with it ?

My backup, and supplement to OTA is a Roku streaming Netflix (lots of good stuff for $8/mo).

The prompt for looking at the CM-7000PAL was my Philips DVD recorder biting the dust. I tossed it and its manual a couple weeks back. I don't have anything remaining with its model number and I don't recall the number. It had a digital tuner, but no hard drive, SD but with HDMI upscaling to 1080i, and it lasted about 2 years. I had a similar type RCA DVD recorder before that and it died a little over 2 years old. The laser quit working on the RCA and the Philips simply shut off during playback and was totally dead.

The short life of both DVD recorders led me to consider buying a 3-year warranty for the CM-7000PAL.

AJ

Bickering removed. Stay on topic and civil. Thanks.

How good are the tuners in the DTV PAL and the Channel Master equivalent model, regarding signal sensitivity and aquisition?

I have indoor and outdoor antennas and with my little $30. coupon D/A converter boxes, all the local signals are acquired without a flaw. However, the Vixs hardware tuner I have in a Windows Media Center computer, is not so good at this. I use the same antennas and the same input lines with all of them. I use both the Media Center software tuner and an Easy HD DVR software tuner with the computer and if the signal is not just right, several channels aren't acquired.

So I'm wondering what to expect from a DTV PAL in this regard. Are its tuners able to acquire signals as well as those coupon D/A boxes or would I have problems like I do with the Vixs computer tuner?

The PAL DVR tuners are every bit as good as the ones on 95%+ of the CECBs - They beat the ATSC tuner in my Hauppauge HVR1600 as well.

How good are the tuners in the DTV PAL and the Channel Master equivalent model, regarding signal sensitivity and aquisition?

I have indoor and outdoor antennas and with my little $30. coupon D/A converter boxes, all the local signals are acquired without a flaw. However, the Vixs hardware tuner I have in a Windows Media Center computer, is not so good at this. I use the same antennas and the same input lines with all of them. I use both the Media Center software tuner and an Easy HD DVR software tuner with the computer and if the signal is not just right, several channels aren't acquired.

So I'm wondering what to expect from a DTV PAL in this regard. Are its tuners able to acquire signals as well as those coupon D/A boxes or would I have problems like I do with the Vixs computer tuner?

The Dish DVR is the SAME turner as the DISHPALPLUS sold with coupon. It is supposed to be better then the Original Dishpal. Also I find them all the same including the Zenith and Magnovox

Thanks for the information about the tuners. I looked at the signal-strength meter for my Zentih CEPB box and although several more distant and lower-powered channels were no more than halfway up, the box tuned them without a flaw. When I connect my computer to the same antenna, the Vixs tuner, with the Windows Media Center, doesn't detect those channels at all, most of the time.

Does the DTV PAL give you the setup option of choosing repeater transmitters that may have stronger signals where you live? My Easy HD DVR software tuner has this feature and it allows me to get a couple of channels the Media Center can't tune. I did a custom adding of a missing channel for the repeater transmitter, but it it didn't work with the Media Center.

Rather than selecting a program to record from the CM-7000PAL's EPG, can you simply set start and end times? On my DVD recorder I would often add a fudge factor, something like 7:55 to 9:15 PM to ensure that, no matter what, I would capture the entire show scheduled for 8:00 to 9:00 PM.

AJ

I have 2 boxes and just noticed that one of the boxes has the fan blowing air out and the other has the fan sucking air in. Strange that the fans were put in differently.

Does anyone know if one approach is better than the other for cooling given the box design?

Also regarding extended warranty service contract. I bought my one box at Sears and did buy a 1 year extended contract. If the box fails they will replace it (Never happen), repair it (maybe), or NOT give me cash but a gift card. Keep in mind with Sears the gift card to spend at Sears loses value (depreciates) over time so that if you don't use it right away you lose money.

Not sure if the other stores that sold the PALDVR have the same policy.

Rather than selecting a program to record from the CM-7000PAL's EPG, can you simply set start and end times? On my DVD recorder I would often add a fudge factor, something like 7:55 to 9:15 PM to ensure that, no matter what, I would capture the entire show scheduled for 8:00 to 9:00 PM.Yes, you can set events by start time and recording duration, and in fact repeating events must be entered that way.  As for safety padding, at Menu-3-5 you can set up to five minutes of default prepadding and up to five minutes of default postpadding for EPG events, but I find on my unit that editing the event after having entered it has no effect, and that it records with the amount of padding set as the default when I selected the program for recording.  Of course, you can always adjust the default padding and then remove and reselect the event.

Keep in mind with Sears the gift card to spend at Sears loses value (depreciates) over time so that if you don't use it right away you lose money.Hasn't it become illegal for a merchant to reduce the value of a gift card just because of the passage of time, or are you referring to the effect of inflation?

...in fact repeating events must be entered that way.* ...

Not sure what you mean by that. If you highlight a program in the guide and press select you can then specify how often to record it. Once, daily, weekly or M-F.

I have 2 boxes and just noticed that one of the boxes has the fan blowing air out and the other has the fan sucking air in. Strange that the fans were put in differently.

Does anyone know if one approach is better than the other for cooling given the box design?

The fan pulls air in on the left side (when you're facing the front)
and blows air out the right side.

Not sure what you mean by that. If you highlight a program in the guide and press select you can then specify how often to record it. Once, daily, weekly or M-F.News to me; I'll have to try it.  Thank you.

Somehow, though, I feel that if you do that and if it has any prepadding, the Timer listings for occurrences in the coming week will show the name of the program that airs just before it (during which the recording begins) rather than the program you intend to record.

(Damn, but I wish this software had a problem-free way to double-space between sentences.)

The fan pulls air in on the left side (when you're facing the front)
and blows air out the right side.

Yes on one of my boxes it does this and on the other it blows out. It pulls ( sucks) air from the right top and right side blows it out on the left side. How I discovered this was I was feeling that each unit was hot and cool on different sides of the unit. Further inspection led me to the fans on each unit are moving air in different directions.

Yes, you can set events by start time and recording duration, and in fact repeating events must be entered that way.* As for safety padding, at Menu-3-5 you can set up to five minutes of default prepadding and up to five minutes of default postpadding for EPG events, but I find on my unit that editing the event after having entered it has no effect, and that it records with the amount of padding set as the default when I selected the program for recording.* Of course, you can always adjust the default padding and then remove and reselect the event.

Hasn't it become illegal for a merchant to reduce the value of a gift card just because of the passage of time, or are you referring to the effect of inflation?

Yes...I forgot the recent changes made them stop that practice. I got burned by Sears. But you still don't get money back to buy another branded DVR and have to buy at Sears. Maybe not so bad.

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Sling-Media-DTVPalDVR-Digital-Converter/product/B002CO2HO4 with Amazon and its third parties.

Interesting. :)

News to me; I'll have to try it.* Thank you.

Somehow, though, I feel that if you do that and if it has any prepadding, the Timer listings for occurrences in the coming week will show the name of the program that airs just before it (during which the recording begins) rather than the program you intend to record.


No, the software is actually smart enough to correct for this. By default I have "early-start" maxed out at 5 min, (I'm in Austin so I wish I could make it 10!). Anyway, when a recording first starts it shows up in the recorded programs list with the title of the prior program as you expected, but within a few min, it always auto-corrects the title to reflect the intended time block. I've never had to manually fix a title on a recording that was scheduled through the EPG ("EVENT TIMER". You will have this problem if you create/edit a MANUAL TIMER and set it to start more than 5 min early.

Prefect time to ask -- so what is the latest on the Austin TVGOS problem?

I assume that the problem is still there
The CBS station refuses to allocate more bit-width
And the work around is to force a reboot around 4PM. (does that keep the clock accurate through midnight?)

I don't remember why this is the only CBS station with a band width problem but I can understand their reluctance to implement the TVGOS fix -- re-plumb everything.

Prefect time to ask -- so what is the latest on the Austin TVGOS problem?

I assume that the problem is still there
The CBS station refuses to allocate more bit-width
And the work around is to force a reboot around 4PM. (does that keep the clock accurate through midnight?).

Correct on all points. The auto-reboot work-around is not always effective for a couple of reasons:

1) Sometimes the reboot fires OK, but the resulting TVGOS clock is still skewed, and in these instances it remains skewed even if I going into the setup menu and manually change zip code and/or time zone to different and then back to correct. I assume that on these occasions the TVGOS clock data is still skewed from KEYE even during the normally slack prime time window (I haven't bothered to verify this assumption with TSREADER).

2) Sometimes the auto-reboot fails to fire. I have no idea why. It doesn't seem to matter whether the DVR is on or in standby when the reboot time arrives. In both cases, the reboot usually fires, but sometimes does not.


I don't remember why this is the only CBS station with a band width problem but I can understand their reluctance to implement the TVGOS fix -- re-plumb everything.

The reason this issue is unique to KEYE appears to be the fact that they are over-allocating their 19Mbps of ATSC bandwidth. I forget the exact numbers, but I think they give almost 17Mbps to the primary HD subchannel and then another 2Mbps to their single SD subchannel, so pretty much no bandwidth left to support anything else. No other broadcaster in Austin (or Wichita, or San Francisco) approaches this level of over-allocation based on our earlier TSREADER measurements. I guess KEYE is just bound and determined to "wow" their viewers with the absolute best possible PQ come hell or high water...

Thanks for the information about the tuners. I looked at the signal-strength meter for my Zentih CEPB box and although several more distant and lower-powered channels were no more than halfway up, the box tuned them without a flaw. When I connect my computer to the same antenna, the Vixs tuner, with the Windows Media Center, doesn't detect those channels at all, most of the time.

Does the DTV PAL give you the setup option of choosing repeater transmitters that may have stronger signals where you live? My Easy HD DVR software tuner has this feature and it allows me to get a couple of channels the Media Center can't tune. I did a custom adding of a missing channel for the repeater transmitter, but it it didn't work with the Media Center.

What makes the Dish boxes different then the other ones that I have seen and used. Is that the Box searches for channels when you first set up. Then if something new or TROPO happens. The Box will AUTO add new channels and Sub Channels. Without you having to do anything to the box. It will inform you of new add on's with a screen.

Does the DTV PAL give you the setup option of choosing repeater transmitters that may have stronger signals where you live?
NO the dish and all Cebes that I know. All get every station it sees. That includes LP.

I've never had to manually fix a title on a recording that was scheduled through the EPG ("EVENT TIMER". You will have this problem if you create/edit a MANUAL TIMER and set it to start more than 5 min early.What you described happens for me only on EPG events.  For a manual timer, you -- or I, at any rate -- can start it even one minute early and it will forever bear the name of the preceding program.

If you highlight a program in the guide and press select you can then specify how often to record it. Once, daily, weekly or M-F.

News to me; I'll have to try it.

So I tried it.

First try: caused a reboot, first one I've ever had, just after I posted above that my box had never rebooted on its own.  Perhaps the reason was that I had EPG events still scheduled for some of the upcoming recurrences.

Second try, after waiting for TVGOS to fill back in and unsetting all the remaining occurrences: sorry, Will, but setting the EPG-selected event to repeat zeroed out its padding, making your suggestion useless to me.  (The particular program where I tried it always starts about 90-100 seconds before its scheduled time and needs two minutes of prepadding.)

Correct on all points. The auto-reboot work-around is not always effective for a couple of reasons:

1) Sometimes the reboot fires OK, but the resulting TVGOS clock is still skewed, and in these instances it remains skewed even if I going into the setup menu and manually change zip code and/or time zone to different and then back to correct. I assume that on these occasions the TVGOS clock data is still skewed from KEYE even during the normally slack prime time window (I haven't bothered to verify this assumption with TSREADER).


I can explain this one. Around February 18th, Rovi changed the download schedule again. Now the downloads go from 12:01am to 6:15pm local time. At 4:00pm the downloads are still happening, so the Rovi data is still backed up.

Mark

So I tried it.

First try: caused a reboot, first one I've ever had, just after I posted above that my box had never rebooted on its own.* Perhaps the reason was that I had EPG events still scheduled for some of the upcoming recurrences.

Second try, after waiting for TVGOS to fill back in and unsetting all the remaining occurrences: sorry, Will, but setting the EPG-selected event to repeat zeroed out its padding, making your suggestion useless to me.* (The particular program where I tried it always starts about 90-100 seconds before its scheduled time and needs two minutes of prepadding.)

That's very odd. MadMikeAVS set me straight on this a couple of weeks ago. I was pressing the record button instead of select, then when I edited the timer to change the frequency, it would change it to a manual timer from an event timer, which ignored the padding, just as you described. By pressing select instead of record it lets you change the frequency right then, and leaves it as an event timer, which then uses the padding, so mine does work just as WillN937 described. I have noticed that timers that I set before would sometimes miss a few seconds of the start of a program, but now my recordings all start a minute or two earlier.

Mark

Thank you, Mark; I'll try that and report back.  But if the result is that the timers keep the padding but show the title of the preceding program, it's no better than just entering the recurring event manually.

Yes...I forgot the recent changes made them stop that practice. I got burned by Sears. But you still don't get money back to buy another branded DVR and have to buy at Sears. Maybe not so bad.
Be careful! It is now againist the law to have these "gift cards" expire. However, monthly deductions for card account maintenance can and are being charged. Cards won't expire but their balance will become zero with a $5-$10 monthly fee. These fees started when the law took effect to obviously, circumvent it. A store credit - not gift card - would be better if cash is not.

Hi!

I just saw a "software update error through IP" or something like that. I didn't get a chance to write it down. I was watching one of my currently dual recordings (KNBC 4.1 and KTTV 11.1 [weak signal, but not horrible]).

Did anyone see this one before or know what's up? I did not have a network cable connected to my LAN to the Internet so it can't be that. I know this three months old DTV Pal DVR has the latest 208 firmware (came with it). Is it over the air (OTA) update for TV Guide stuff or something else? Strange error.

Thank you in advance. :)

You probably haven't Disabled Updates in the options menu.
If not, it tries to update the firmware and can't find any.
The manual and helpfile are wrong. Updates is ONLY for firmware updates
through an Ethernet connection, NOT for the program guide or TVGOS.

You probably haven't Disabled Updates in the options menu.
If not, it tries to update the firmware and can't find any.
The manual and helpfile are wrong. Updates is ONLY for firmware updates
through an Ethernet connection, NOT for the program guide or TVGOS.Ah, thanks. I can't find that disable option. Going to Updates tell me no IP (I believe the same error I saw earlier). Going to broadband should 0.0.0.0 which is correct since I don't have a network cable connected. Anywhere else I missed?

Ah, thanks. I can't find that disable option. Going to Updates tell me no IP (I believe the same error I saw earlier). Going to broadband should 0.0.0.0 which is correct since I don't have a network cable connected. Anywhere else I missed?
Menu, Setup, Updates. Set it to Disabled.

Menu, Setup, Updates. Set it to Disabled.Thanks again. Since you said the manual and help are wrong, then why does it have a time (currently 5:00 AM)? That error came up last night right before I posted about it (about 9:45 PM PDT). :(

I'm noticing the past few weeks when I first turn on the DTVPal and the TV (3 yr old Sony LCD Set) , when I first select the HDMI input the Pal is plugged into about half the time I have no audio from the Pal, and the TV doesn't indicate "Dolby Digital". Flip through the inputs, go to the Dish satellite receiver, has audio, TV says "Dolby Digital" , go back to the Pal, and now has audio. After that, works perfectly all day and night. Some kind of HDMI handshaking process not working quite right? Anyone else with this quirk?

Still incredibly happy with my pair of DTVPals here in Houston... TVGOS working perfectly and got my last unit for under $250 shipped. Never checked as to whether or not their fan blows in or out but even if it blows in... not that there is anything wrong with that....:D

Thanks again. Since you said the manual and help are wrong, then why does it have a time (currently 5:00 AM)? That error came up last night right before I posted about it (about 9:45 PM PDT). :(
I think the time (the factory default is 1 AM) stays in place (but isn't used) even when Updates are disabled.
No idea why you got the error at 9:45 PM.

I think the time (the factory default is 1 AM) stays in place (but isn't used) even when Updates are disabled.
No idea why you got the error at 9:45 PM.Strange. Maybe this three months old DTV Pal is falling apart. :(

I will leave its update disabled and see what happens. It was my first time.

I think the time (the factory default is 1 AM) stays in place (but isn't used) even when Updates are disabled.
No idea why you got the error at 9:45 PM.

I think time is when it forces a reboot (prob to install any downloaded software update). I think download attempt/search of an update (via IP ) might be somewhat a random. I've seen that error pop up too since the box is not connected to the internet when I had updates enabled.

I think time is when it forces a reboot (prob to install any downloaded software update). I think download attempt/search of an update (via IP ) might be somewhat a random. I've seen that error pop up too since the box is not connected to the internet when I had updates enabled.So you disabled Updates to make it go away forever? It's useless now since we haven't gotten any newer firmwares so no point of having it check online.

So you disabled Updates to make it go away forever? It's useless now since we haven't gotten any newer firmwares so no point of having it check online.

Would love to see a final FR209 update that includes a fix for the Daylight savings timer fault.

I wonder if we can make a list of important fixes that can be sent to Charlie or one of us get into the monthly Charlie chat and talk directly to the CEO Charlie.

That was done when the box first came out and by talking directly with Charlie the CEO thru his monthly Talk to CHARLIE chat.

It had some great results. Like the update that included the box acceptance of 1 terabyte Hard Drives

You can ask, but I seriously doubt if Charlie cares a damn about the DTVPal DVR or it's owners' desires at this point.

The best fix for the time change issue (I have tvgos) is to just delete all timers Saturday night and redo them Sunday morning and then keep and I on them.

I've had mine since dec 08 and no problems other than known ones. Love it, and after over 25 years of VCR's it is so much better. I have a spare just in case and use it occasionally when I have 3 or more timers at the same time.

I have three of the DtvPal Dvr units.
For my point of view the best way to handle the time change is to disable TVGOS at least 7 to 10 days before the time change, then re-enable TVGOS after the time change and 1 timer has cycled.
I believe the two competing program guides confuse the unit.
Using this method has greatly reduced the time change issue for me.

I have three of the DtvPal Dvr units.
For my point of view the best way to handle the time change is to disable TVGOS at least 7 to 10 days before the time change, then re-enable TVGOS after the time change and 1 timer has cycled.
I believe the two competing program guides confuse the unit.
Using this method has greatly reduced the time change issue for me.

Good idea. I figured that would help - but forgot to try it this go round.

You can ask, but I seriously doubt if Charlie cares a damn about the DTVPal DVR or it's owners' desires at this point.

True, but still worth a shot. What do we have to lose?

If you guys can help me come up with a short list of things that need fixing. I would try to get a hold of charlie

Worst he can say is NO

True, but still worth a shot. What do we have to lose?

If you guys can help me come up with a short list of things that need fixing. I would try to get a hold of charlie

Worst he can say is NO

#1 - the DST time issue
#2 - a way to use NTP time if connected to the internet

#1 - the DST time issue
#2 - a way to use NTP time if connected to the internet

Wouldn't a manual time set be better?

#1 - the DST time issue
#2 - a way to use NTP time if connected to the internet

#3 (#1, if I were King...) Force the DTVPal to continue searching for TVGOS even after a lapse of more than a few days!

It's a darned nuisance to have to do repeated factory resets just to find out if TVGOS service has been restored by the provider station!

Wouldn't a manual time set be better?

Only as a last ditch. NTP would at least get a steady time set.

True, but still worth a shot. What do we have to lose?

If you guys can help me come up with a short list of things that need fixing. I would try to get a hold of charlie

Worst he can say is NO

#4 See if the program guide can be made to display TVGOS listings for channels 9/FOX, 23/CW, 41/ION, and 45 in the Minneapolis area rather than display "no information available" (known issue (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A6) #6 from Post #1). Thanks!

True, but still worth a shot. What do we have to lose?

If you guys can help me come up with a short list of things that need fixing. I would try to get a hold of charlie

Worst he can say is NO
I would love to be able to disable the function where the unit searches for and adds channels. Over time 80% of the channels listed get no signal.

I would love to be able to disable the function where the unit searches for and adds channels. Over time 80% of the channels listed get no signal.

I understand, but for me this is essential. The box I bought is for my aunt. She has a very hard time with using the menu/setup features. If I had to spend an hour to teach her to rescan for new channels. I would lose the rest of my hair.:(

This is one of the only boxes that auto adds new channels. It makes my life much easier. Yes some channels have no signal. I just delete them on my visits. The individual channel does not return if you delete them from the channel list.

This is one of the top reasons I went with dish.. Along with an easy to understand guide.

Sorry the removal of that feature does not get my vote.

Of course if there was a switch to turn that feature on/off. That I would agree too.

Only as a last ditch. NTP would at least get a steady time set.

Ok that sounds like a good idea. Except in my case where my aunt has no internet. So I am sure they could have a switch to turn that on/off? Or if internet not used it goes back to TVGOS.

To be honest since I have used the DVR and we get CBS 98% signal and that is where the TVGOS signal comes from in my area. We have NO PROBLEMS with correct time at all.

We have used the Dishpal and Diskpal Plus in the past and both of those did not use TVGOS and then we had time problems. It used PSIP

All that went away with this DVR device.

I do understand not all TVGOS systems are the same across the country. So your internet protocol system would work better.

My only concern is that there is a turn on/off feature with it.

#3 (#1, if I were King...) Force the DTVPal to continue searching for TVGOS even after a lapse of more than a few days!

It's a darned nuisance to have to do repeated factory resets just to find out if TVGOS service has been restored by the provider station!

Agreed 100%

Yes on one of my boxes it does this and on the other it blows out. It pulls ( sucks) air from the right top and right side blows it out on the left side. How I discovered this was I was feeling that each unit was hot and cool on different sides of the unit. Further inspection led me to the fans on each unit are moving air in different directions.

But both fans are located in the same spot, on the left side? Maybe someone installed one backwards then. It would be easy for someone to have positioned it turned around. If that's the case, you could easily turn it back around if you can manage to get the case open to do it.

I understand, but for me this is essential. The box I bought is for my aunt. She has a very hard time with using the menu/setup features. If I had to spend an hour to teach her to rescan for new channels. I would lose the rest of my hair.:(

This is one of the only boxes that auto adds new channels. It makes my life much easier. Yes some channels have no signal. I just delete them on my visits. The individual channel does not return if you delete them from the channel list.

This is one of the top reasons I went with dish.. Along with an easy to understand guide.

Sorry the removal of that feature does not get my vote.

Of course if there was a switch to turn that feature on/off. That I would agree too.
My post did not ask to remove the function, only to have the ability to disable the function.

True, but still worth a shot. What do we have to lose?

If you guys can help me come up with a short list of things that need fixing. I would try to get a hold of charlie

Worst he can say is NO

I think most of the issues are in post 1.

The ability to set the clock manually exists now. The only problem is that if the device sees TVGOS time it will use that and disable manual setting.

As it is now you can disable TVGOS as a source for the EPG or have TVGOS data be preferred if both TVGOS and PSIP exist. I would like the added option to have the system be a little smarter and if there is PSIP data and it conflicts with TVGOS, use the PSIP bacause sometimes the PSIP data (set by the station) is more up to date with last minute schedule changes like special local programming, sports run overs etc.

A lot of people would like to see name based programming but that may be a big change even though the search capability is already there.

Some people would like to see more TVGOS details like whether this is a rerun etc.

For anyone considering an extended warranty, I wanted to let you know how awesome Square Trade is. I had my first "opportunity" to file a claim for one of my several warranties recently, on the DTVPal I've posted about. The online form told me I'd have to contact the manufacturer because 90 days hadn't passed, so I gave them a call. The rep looked up my info and said that is a glitch in their system, and I did qualify for a claim due to my purchase being from ebay on an item that isn't supported by the manufacturer anymore. He first sent me a link to a repair shop, and said they were going to cover my costs if it didn't exceed my purchase price. Unfortunately, that place only repairs Tivos.
I wrote to tell them I struck out on the repair, had called other places too, so I would need to do a refund instead. Within a few hours I had an email telling me how to print out a prepaid shipping label. It was supposed to take up to 5 days for reimbursement, and I figured they would have to unpack the box first to make sure I sent everything back, but the very next day they sent me my Amazon code! I chose Amazon over paypal because they gave me a 5% bonus. They gave me the entire amount of my invoice on ebay, didn't even subtract any shipping cost. I had paid $28 for the warranty, and it saved me from losing $300! Hopefully they weren't just treating me nicely to make a good first impression. LOL!
I don't know if it's allowed to post about referrels here, but if anyone thinks they will buy a warranty in the future, please PM me your email address so I can send you my referral link. They pay a $5 credit when anyone buys a warranty thru the link. Thanks
Oh, and when you buy thru ebay, it's really easy to get a warranty price code because you just enter the item number and Square Trade knows exactly what you bought and paid. You never have to send in a receipt like you do when you buy offline.
About once a month they have a 30% discount if you are on their mailing list. I've never had to pay full price for a warranty, because they give you up to 30 days to buy the warranty after an ebay purchase, and up to 90 days from other stores, and there's always been a discount special before the time is up.

Some people would like to see more TVGOS details like whether this is a rerun etc.

YES!! I have wanted that for a long time! I figured only TVGOS could change that though, not anything in the Pal software.

Amazon seems to fluctuate prices on many items, bouncing up and down a few dollars occasionally. Yesterday the CM-7000PAL was $301+change and today it is $299.54. That dropped the 3-year SquareTrade Warranty by $9 since it is now the $250-300 bracket, instead of $300-350.

Just ordered one with the 3-year warranty for total $338.53, free shipping and no sales tax. That's probably not the best deal around but I'm satisfied because I trust Amazon and buy tons of stuff from them.

I'd appreciate any start-up tips and/or pitfalls to avoid that anyone can offer.

AJ

Amazon seems to fluctuate prices on many items, bouncing up and down a few dollars occasionally. Yesterday the CM-7000PAL was $301+change and today it is $299.54. That dropped the 3-year SquareTrade Warranty by $9 since it is now the $250-300 bracket, instead of $300-350.

Just ordered one with the 3-year warranty for total $338.53, free shipping and no sales tax. That's probably not the best deal around but I'm satisfied because I trust Amazon and buy tons of stuff from them.

I'd appreciate any start-up tips and/or pitfalls to avoid that anyone can offer.

AJ

For a few more days, there is a Buy It Now on ebay for $295.99 and free shipping. There were 9 available and I bought one last night because it is a refurb and I decided I'd rather not trust a new unit anymore after having one die in only 2 months. I have always had better luck with refurbs of DVD recorders, so hopefully this will be the same. I could only get a 2 year Square Trade warranty because it isn't a new unit, but it also has the 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

I understand, but for me this is essential. The box I bought is for my aunt. She has a very hard time with using the menu/setup features. If I had to spend an hour to teach her to rescan for new channels. I would lose the rest of my hair.:(

This is one of the only boxes that auto adds new channels. It makes my life much easier. Yes some channels have no signal. I just delete them on my visits. The individual channel does not return if you delete them from the channel list.

This is one of the top reasons I went with dish.. Along with an easy to understand guide.

Sorry the removal of that feature does not get my vote.

Of course if there was a switch to turn that feature on/off. That I would agree too.

Just to point out that since the switch to digital was two years ago it is highly unlikely that any NEW channels will be added that would require the box to automatically add.

Just to point out that since the switch to digital was two years ago it is highly unlikely that any NEW channels will be added that would require the box to automatically add.
Don't forget distant channels can sometimes be picked up during bad weather. :cool:

Are you guys not aware that you can get an open-box CM-7000Pal DVR direct from Channel Master's website for only $260.00 (using the coupon code "shopcmstore")?

No shipping, either. It was mentioned in the CM-7000 thread awhile back. I believe there were at least a couple of people here who got them, and said theirs worked fine.

The site specifies "open box", and not "refurbished", but one would think they'd at least be checking them out first.

You can add the Square Trade warranty to that just the same.

I did forget about reading that before. Darn. I was in a rush to get the 30% warranty sale last night, and only thinking about paying in paypal, and everyone on ebay takes paypal. If CM only accepts credit cards, I wouldn't have ordered from them anyway. Maybe they are only using the term "open box" in case some customers don't like the term "refurb", but I don't see why they would open the box just to peek inside. :D

Oops - I was editing something in that post, and the whole thing somehow got expunged. But you quoted it, so all's OK.

YES!! I have wanted that for a long time! I figured only TVGOS could change that though, not anything in the Pal software.TVGOS (Rovi) does send out whether the show is new or rerun, as well as the rating and perhaps other things. The DTVPal DVR chooses not to store or display that info. My Sony DHG-HDD250 gladly displays it.

Has anyone tried using a Google TV box with the DTVPal DVR? Apparently GTV integrates really really well with Dish DVRs, if that includes this one then I'd seriously consider getting a GTV box.

Has anyone tried using a Google TV box with the DTVPal DVR? Apparently GTV integrates really really well with Dish DVRs, if that includes this one then I'd seriously consider getting a GTV box.

No can do, the DTVpal only works for off air signals. That means it is not able to tune in anything from cable or satellite TV, and certainly nothing at all that require the internet.

No can do, the DTVpal only works for off air signals. That means it is not able to tune in anything from cable or satellite TV, and certainly nothing at all that require the internet.

GTV isn't able to tune in anything at all, it's tunerless. It relies on an external box to provide any tuning, whether that be a cable box or satellite box. From what I understand of the thing you don't even actually need a tuner at all to use it as an internet device and network media player.

It indexes what's available on what's hooked up to it, including internet. If a Dish satellite DVR is hooked up (via HDMI) it will scan what's been recorded and index it for searching and playback. The GTV box can control the tuner box to change the channel or play back a recording on a DVR. What I want to know is if the DTVPal DVR is one of the Dish devices that work.. the only way to find out, since Dish themselves very likely won't answer and wouldn't know even if they wanted to, is for someone to have actually tried it. So, I ask.

Would love to see a final FR209 update...

Pigs will fly before you see another DTVPal FW update.

I did forget about reading that before. Darn. I was in a rush to get the 30% warranty sale last night, and only thinking about paying in paypal, and everyone on ebay takes paypal. If CM only accepts credit cards, I wouldn't have ordered from them anyway. Maybe they are only using the term "open box" in case some customers don't like the term "refurb", but I don't see why they would open the box just to peek inside. :D

The Channel Master Store does take Pay Pal, that's how I got my CM-7000PAL for $261. The box had definitely been resealed but all contents appeared to be new. Everything was wrapped or sealed in bags and I couldn't find a single smudge, scratch, dent or other blemish anywhere. I've had it about a month and it has performed flawlessly to this point. I'm thinking of getting a second one because the tuners are so good, one of my Panasonic plasmas has a horrible tuner.

Just to point out that since the switch to digital was two years ago it is highly unlikely that any NEW channels will be added that would require the box to automatically add.

IMO, that's very market-dependent prognostication. At least one new local subchannel appeared here as recently as a few months ago and there's still one or more stations with no subchannels (yet).

Granted, auto channel add was probably intended more as a convenience feature during the early days of the transition, but even with the occasional addition of a distant out of market station, the fact it doesn't get re-added following deletion has meant I haven't been annoyed by that feature. Of course, YMMV.

IMO, that's very market-dependent prognostication. At least one new local subchannel appeared here as recently as a few months ago and there's still one or more stations with no subchannels (yet).

Granted, auto channel add was probably intended more as a convenience feature during the early days of the transition, but even with the occasional addition of a distant out of market station, the fact it doesn't get re-added following deletion has meant I haven't been annoyed by that feature. Of course, YMMV.

I'm still getting new channels starting up in my area. Though they are low power LP stations with a very lacking quality of content.

Mostly ethnic or shopping formats so far, though some new networks are expanding such as retro TV and thisTV. I just got a new sports station tuff tv over the past month or so.

What markets is TUFF TV in?

Search Wikipedia for "TUFF TV" or go to their website and you will get your answer....

Search Wikipedia for "TUFF TV" or go to their website and you will get your answer....

The list on Wikipedia is incomplete. For example WHKY has had TUFF TV for about a year. A better list of affiliates in at:

http://www.tufftv.com/index.php/affiliates

The list on Wikipedia is incomplete. For example WHKY has had TUFF TV for about a year. A better list of affiliates in at:

http://www.tufftv.com/index.php/affiliates

I guess you didn't bother to read what you quoted, because I did mention going to the website. I didn't post the link because 1) it is listed on the wikipedia page, and 2)I hoped the person that asked the question might do his own searches, instead of posting his off-topic questions here....

Just to point out that since the switch to digital was two years ago it is highly unlikely that any NEW channels will be added that would require the box to automatically add.

You would think but I had a station change from VHF (9) to UHF in the last few months. Also possible a new station can come on line or add a sub-channel like COOL-TV or THIS-TV but for the most part I have to agree that most of the new stations the DVR finds are just the occasional fringe station that manages to leak through.

I guess you didn't bother to read what you quoted, because I did mention going to the website. I didn't post the link because 1) it is listed on the wikipedia page, and 2)I hoped the person that asked the question might do his own searches, instead of posting his off-topic questions here....

Not to mention that he is in a TUFF TV market already.

Pigs will fly before you see another DTVPal FW update.

NAW. With genetic engineering, I wouldn't be too surprised to see flying pigs. ;)

NAW. With genetic engineering, I wouldn't be too surprised to see flying pigs. ;)

Given sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.