Repeating incorrect information won't make it right.

Yes, they have.

From what i know i dont remember dts ever using dialnorm, what DTS-MA tracks have it? none that i know of.

And i always wanted to know this, is dialnorm still used if you send the track to the receiver using LPCM? or only bitstream?

Anyone compared the US bluray against the UK bluray. In the UK the HD-DVD had a better encode so maybe the UK will get a better bluray encode too!?:confused:

The only difference between Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA when it comes to dialnorm is that it's simply more common on Dolby TrueHD tracks because it's flagged by default.

Some studios dont even use dialnorm with TrueHD, like sony. they turn it off.

Yup, and some studios have opted to use it.

If anyone wants to continue this particular discussion, then it would perhaps be best to post in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1098946).

I agree. Guys, please take that discussion to the thread linked above.

Thanks

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/1616f0f9.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/62e9f7d5.png

/\

Blu-ray encode wins.

Anyone compared the US bluray against the UK bluray. In the UK the HD-DVD had a better encode so maybe the UK will get a better bluray encode too!?:confused:

If someone has the UK blu-ray run it thru BD Info. Lets see the stats.

In the last comparison it looks like the Blu-ray is slightly more detailed on the face while the HD DVD encode has spent much more bits on the black background. If you increase the gamma on both pics you'll see the Blu-ray encode is blocking a lot more.

And I think the EU version was already posted in the specs thread, and it was more or less the same disc.

I personally think the HD-DVD looks better in that last comparison. Looks like slight edge enhancement or sharpening in the BD version, and it shows in the dark areas as well as artificially detailed skin texture.

I thought you guys were having a little fun with that last sample, because all that showed up on my regular display was a black screen...until I scrolled to the right. :D

Here's the HFview angle:

hdvd
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=129776&stc=1&d=1231969135


br
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=129777&stc=1&d=1231969135



If dnr has created any difference, it will be in the black extreme areas of the image (so I'm not sure how much there is to protest about, as far as impacts on what is actually visible). Overall, the 2 results are very alike, but the br seems to achieve a better degree of fidelity in the areas of the nose, eyes, eyebrows, mouth, and ear. The texture of the face is also more intact over a greater region in the br.

The BD seems to have more empty block patches than the HD-DVD. I still thinks it looks sharper than the HD-DVD.

Yes, in the noisefloor of the black regions, that seems to be where dnr is scraping out any residual signal, just leaving a flat black in the br. While the hdvd is not free from this deep black cleaning, either, the br is a notch more aggressive in that aspect.

I thought you guys were having a little fun with that last sample, because all that showed up on my regular display was a black screen...until I scrolled to the right. :D

Well! My screen is bigger than yours, then. MY screen showed all the way over to his sideburns. :D

This has to be one of the least differences in anything I've seen compared on the forum.

Art

What about Transformers?

What about Transformers?

I just felt that that film was so bad that I didn't look at any threads on it. :oSerenity is a good film IMO.

But really these comparisons show so little difference I'd be surprised if I could see it on my system. If the audio is improved then it could be worth the buy but the video looks like a wash.



Art

ok so what am I looking for in the B & W shots ?

That's my focus too in BD reissued HDDVD. Audio improvement.

and better supplements too. I also see a slight, but noticeable, improvement with the BR picture from the last comparison. This may be the only movie that I double dip from my current HD-DVD collection because I just enjoy it that much :D

I just felt that that film was so bad that I didn't look at any threads on it. :oSerenity is a good film IMO.

But really these comparisons show so little difference I'd be surprised if I could see it on my system. If the audio is improved then it could be worth the buy but the video looks like a wash.



Art

Only when A/B screenshots will anyone can see a difference. Even that is a crapshoot.

Only when A/B screenshots will anyone can see a difference. Even that is a crapshoot.
Did you see my PM?

Did you see my PM?

Yes. No harm. No foul.

And moving on to the PIX . . . . .

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/c65cb928.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/797823e8.png

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/71725b47.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/160429e6.png

More screencaps that look identical....of course there's no way anyone could tell any difference while watching ths live on an average size TV...most average folks have what..a 47"..maybe 52" set? No way they could tell the difference (assuming there even is any) during live viewing.

So at what point will the Blu vs. HD DVD battle of identical screenshots end anyway?

I've listened to both the DD+ and DTS-MA versions of Serenity. Other than the DTS version being set for a much louder default volume, after level-matching they sound the same. The DTS track is not more dynamic or hotter in the LFE channel than the DD+. But it may seem that way if you haven't level-matched them. That's all I was trying to say.

This thread truly shows $4.99 vs. $19.99 at Fry's is up to the purchaser's preference. Apparently, neither will yield the superior experience.

Thanks, Josh!

So at what point will the Blu vs. HD DVD battle of identical screenshots end anyway?

Once every single movie released on HD-DVD has been released on Blu-Ray, I guess.

I just picked up Serenity. A great version of the movie. I'm pleased.

More screencaps that look identical....of course there's no way anyone could tell any difference while watching ths live on an average size TV...most average folks have what..a 47"..maybe 52" set? No way they could tell the difference (assuming there even is any) during live viewing.

So at what point will the Blu vs. HD DVD battle of identical screenshots end anyway?

There's been 10 or so comparisons in this thread. Are they all identical?

More screencaps that look identical....of course there's no way anyone could tell any difference while watching ths live on an average size TV...most average folks have what..a 47"..maybe 52" set? No way they could tell the difference (assuming there even is any) during live viewing.

So at what point will the Blu vs. HD DVD battle of identical screenshots end anyway?
If I can tell a pretty obvious difference on my 21" CRT monitor (and yes, they are obvious to my eyes in several shots), the difference would be blatant on my 40" from my 1 SW sitting position...

If I can tell a pretty obvious difference on my 21" CRT monitor (and yes, they are obvious to my eyes in several shots),

How far away are you sitting from that 21" monitor? Do you have to lean in and squint to see some of these differences? Be honest now.

LOL :D

BTW, Xylon, did you have a chance to check out the international version of The Thing? It's a BD-50 and features a different enconding of the movie, same as Jarhead.

I'd also like to hear your opinion on Land Of The Dead HD-DVD x BD if you have made that comparison. ;)

Are you sure The Thing features a different encode on the UK edition ?

I thought it just featured the same encode. if it's different and better and has none of the annoying DNR done to the american edition and has no region coding i'd buy it.

Looking forward to Xylons comparison of this one.

Are you sure The Thing features a different encode on the UK edition ?

I thought it just featured the same encode. if it's different and better and has none of the annoying DNR done to the american edition and has no region coding i'd buy it.

Looking forward to Xylons comparison of this one.
All we know for sure is that it's on a BD50 and it has a bunch of special features that the American edition lost out on. I haven't heard word one about the encode itself, however.

Are you sure The Thing features a different encode on the UK edition ?

Jarhead is on a BD-50 overseas and is confirmed to feature a different enconding (almost double the bitrate of the US version) and all the extras.

Going by the same trend, The Thing and Scorpiong King should also be improvements since they are confirmed to feature all the extras and be presented on a BD-50.

Not sure what others are viewing this on but I could not see any differences between the two on my 15" laptop. Big screen would obviously make a difference if there is any to be seen.

I think it might be interesting if the pictures were posted with non-descript labels (1A,1B,2A,2B, etc...) and mix it up so only the author would be identify which is which. Throw in a few that are identical for fun and then let people pick which is better and post their results plus some kind of time frame on how long it took them to chose.

Not sure what others are viewing this on but I could not see any differences between the two on my 15" laptop. Big screen would obviously make a difference if there is any to be seen.

I think it might be interesting if the pictures were posted with non-descript labels (1A,1B,2A,2B, etc...) and mix it up so only the author would be identify which is which. Throw in a few that are identical for fun and then let people pick which is better and post their results plus some kind of time frame on how long it took them to chose.

24" imac very slight difference on monitor, picture wise for $5 hd vs $20 ($10 on future sale?) I'd take the savings hd Cheaper than dvd version!! audio and extra features depends on what you wana pay

How far away are you sitting from that 21" monitor? Do you have to lean in and squint to see some of these differences? Be honest now.

In the last shot Xylon posted I didn't have to lean in nor squint to see a difference on a 19" monitor.

Brandon

In the last shot Xylon posted I didn't have to lean in nor squint to see a difference on a 19" monitor.

And how far away are you sitting? Now how far away do you sit from your main HT display?

If you have an instruction manual for this feature i'd love to see it so i can add this to my own site as i can think of a few uses for it which would be beneficial to my own site.

How would you like to use it? PM me and I will see if this can work for you.

This BD is better than HD-DVD vresion,The sound was great but still not a reference BD.

Not sure what others are viewing this on but I could not see any differences between the two on my 15" laptop. Big screen would obviously make a difference if there is any to be seen.

I think it might be interesting if the pictures were posted with non-descript labels (1A,1B,2A,2B, etc...) and mix it up so only the author would be identify which is which. Throw in a few that are identical for fun and then let people pick which is better and post their results plus some kind of time frame on how long it took them to chose.


+1000

Bet 99.99% of te "golden eyes" on here couldn't pick out one vs other if their life depended on it.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/94a04443.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/Serenity/9a242402.png

Already watched the BD twice. Looks and sounds awesome. No DNR/EE.

I'm going to upgrade to the BD of this movie on the special features alone, I'll just wait until I can get it in the used section somewhere. If I were upgrading on PQ alone, I wouldn't bother as I can't see a difference unless I'm really staring at the pics. At that point, my money is better spent elsewhere.

This DTS-HD MA made the film even better,very true deep intense LFE,Better surround seperation than DD+.

Blu-ray has more compression artifacts in this latest comparison shot. Lots of blocking.

Spanish Cover Art - Looks awesome.

http://www.zonadvd.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=16654

This DTS-HD MA made the film even better,very true deep intense LFE,Better surround seperation than DD+.

Remember the mantra "DD+ is pretty much lossless" during the format war?

This DTS-HD MA made the film even better,very true deep intense LFE,Better surround seperation than DD+.

Did you match levels? It was probably just louder.

Or the DD+ was quieter.

This DTS-HD MA made the film even better,very true deep intense LFE,Better surround seperation than DD+.

Well that is interesting.

The DTS-HD track featured on Serenity would be the one to beat in terms of LOUDNESS.

At first I thought the new track was indeed 'better' but after level matching, it really sounded the same as the already stellar & first rate Dolby Digital plus track on the HD-DVD.

I think in most cases, or I should say what I have found :) is there is BARELY if at all real world differences in a high bitrate DD+ or DTS 1.5 track compared to it's lossless track on my system. I've got a pretty decent & revealing setup.

There are noticeable differences however with their much more compressed tracks on sd-dvd though. Has this been discussed much on AVS? ;) :D :)

At first I thought the new track was indeed 'better' but after level matching, it really sounded the same as the already stellar & first rate Dolby Digital plus track on the HD-DVD.

I think in most cases, or I should say what I have found :) is there is BARELY if at all real world differences in a high bitrate DD+ or DTS 1.5 track compared to it's lossless track on my system. I've got a pretty decent & revealing setup.

There are noticeable differences however with their much more compressed tracks on sd-dvd though. Has this been discussed much on AVS? ;) :D :)

Some people swear the difference is huge. I think they are using Bose :p

At first I thought the new track was indeed 'better' but after level matching, it really sounded the same


And something few do IMO.

Art

How do you go about getting screencaps (software), and also of the very same frame to compare?


I have the UK HD DVD currently and I'm wondering how that compares to the US HD DVD and the US BD. I owned the US HD DVD at one point but traded it away. Wondering if the UK was actually better or not. The bitrate is LOWER for it, but several here have said that the VC-1 coding was improved so it didn't matter. Did anyone do a similar comparison like what Xylon has done? Or compared macroblocking using that b&w grain thing between the UK HD DVD and the US HD DVD (or US BD) that is also in this thread? To see if that was actually the case.. (considering they added a documentary, a ton of subtitle tracks, and 3? more audio tracks but the disc size is the same).

I compared these tonight frame by frame doing a split screen comparison via AVIsynth. First of all, the Blu-Ray has an extra 23 frames at the start of the movie. Aside from that the Blu-Ray seems to have noticeably better image quality. It has much more consistent picture quality frame to frame when compared to the HD-DVD. There are plenty of frames on the HD-DVD where the grain of the frame is lost to smoothing and macroblocking creeps in (due to insufficient bitrate) whereas on the Blu-Ray that doesn't happen nearly as much or to the same extent.

Seth,
Just for fun, could you give me a few time points for the HDDVD where you see blocking ?

I was always impressed with this title especially since it was the first released title on either BD or HDDVD.

Art

Seth,
Just for fun, could you give me a few time points for the HDDVD where you see blocking ?

I was always impressed with this title especially since it was the first released title on either BD or HDDVD.

ArtArt, here two quick split screen examples from the beginning of the film of two sequential frames. Both of these are the first two frames after a camera angle change.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2350/serenity01.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2350/serenity01.jpg) http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6194/serenity02.th.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6194/serenity02.jpg)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8489/serenity03.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8489/serenity03.jpg) http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1151/serenity04.th.jpg (http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1151/serenity04.jpg)

You'll see the HD-DVD version has the grain disappear on the 2nd frame. The Blu-Ray does not. Of course this is just two examples. Occasionally the grain will disappear on the Blu-Ray side (indicating smoothing and insufficient bitrate), but it's too a lesser extent and considerably less often.

Here's 4 sequential side by side 1/2 frames where you can see how this results in lost detail in the HD-DVD version.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/443/serenity05.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/443/serenity05.jpg) http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7546/serenity06.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7546/serenity06.jpg) http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2792/serenity07.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2792/serenity07.jpg) http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7803/serenity08.th.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7803/serenity08.jpg)

Hint: Focus on the area between the left edge of the paper and the right edge of the screen above the hand.