I bought my PS3 primarily because of BluRay, but the driving force that got us into the store was that my 10yo daughter and my wife wanted a game system. They wanted a Wii, but I refused to get an older gen system, and I wanted BD playback anyway - so it is hard to say whether we bought it primarily as a game system or a BD player. Once I got it home and found out I could stream from my homemade DVR, we bought the 2nd PS3 PRIMARILY for BD and streaming. It does get a little use as a game machine, mostly when people are over for parties. I have RB in one living room and SS in the other.

So, no matter how you look at it, the PS3s at my house were purchased because they were BD players.

Not every PS3 sold is being bought for games. Been that way since launch.

That is true, but I can guarantee that even "non-gamers" will inevitably browse the PSN and end up purchasing casual games from the PSN and maybe even buy games here and there like MGS4 or Uncharted when they are hyped up to show off the power of their equipment and see what HD gaming is really supposed to look like.

Not every PS3 sold is being bought for games. Been that way since launch.

So..then they make their money on the OTHER type of software (aka, Blu-Ray Movies). The movies are almost pure profit for them. The cost for the development of the movies are recouped usually via box office returns. All Sony has to do is pay the relatively small price of converting it to a digital medium.

That is true, but I can guarantee that even "non-gamers" will inevitably browse the PSN and end up purchasing casual games from the PSN and maybe even buy games here and there like MGS4 or Uncharted when they are hyped up to show off the power of their equipment and see what HD gaming is really supposed to look like.

I am sure that would be true for some but not all. I doubt there are mass amounts of "non-gamers" buying a PS3 today for BR playback when they can get a standalone for cheaper. "Non-gamers" do not care that the PS3 is the best BR player in the world(which it is). Today they follow there wallets so claiming now that "non-gamers" are going to actually buy a PS3 with the possibility to be a gamer is not as big of a deal as it was last year simply because of the price difference with standalones.

I am sure that would be true for some but not all. I doubt there are mass amounts of "non-gamers" buying a PS3 today for BR playback when they can get a standalone for cheaper. "Non-gamers" do not care that the PS3 is the best BR player in the world(which it is). Today they follow there wallets so claiming now that "non-gamers" are going to actually buy a PS3 with the possibility to be a gamer is not as big of a deal as it was last year simply because of the price difference with standalones.

WHAT? You said yourself about 8 posts up that not all PS3's are sold as game machines, "been that way since launch" your words, not mine. I didn't claim anything, especially not that people today are buying PS3's exclusive for bluray. Correct yo self please.

How does it not compute? I bought a PS3 because of the games available for the system, regardless of exclusivity, and for the ability to play Blu-Ray movies. Don't assume because I put the games first that they are the #1 reason. Playing Blu-Ray movies was certainly a contributing factor, but it certainly wasn't the main reason, either.

I hate the 360 controller, I don't like paying for online multiplayer, etc.

I certainly wouldn't rank the reasons I went with a PS3. They all simply lead to one outcome.

Your two posts are full of contradictions, that's why they don't compute.

You stated two reasons for going PS3:
Game selection
Blu Ray

You say that the Blu Ray is not the number one reason.

You say that the exclusive games didn't influence your decision, so then that leaves the multi-platform games, which by definition is available on both systems.

So, adding some of that stuff up, you are saying that the reason you bought the PS3 is because it has the same games as the XBox. Which does not compute.

So, logically I concluded that your biggest influence to buy the PS3 over the XBox was the BD player, because that's the only thing that can make sense out of the stuff you said originally, but you told me that was wrong, too.

Reading the rest of your post, I'm guessing what you really meant was that the combination of features like the BD player, free online play, and the feel of the controller, made the PS3 the best package for you. Which, btw is my response when a friend asks why not go with the XBox, but I also say that I want to play GranTourismo and God of War when they come out. That, and I got it for $210 ($399 - 15% (Dell online coupon) +tax - $150 from PS Card (which reminds me, I have to fill out that rebate form to get that $150 back))


Basically, this is all because saying that the game selection is important, but the exclusive games don't matter just doesn't make sense, man.

Are you unaware that some people have actually bought the PS3 either as a game console only, BD player only, or both?

What are you talking about?

Logic + The Internet = Chaos.

Logic + The Internet = Chaos.

Yeah, but you gotta find something to do when the servers are down. :-)

I'm new here, no one knows my sense of humor yet, so I hope no one is getting too bent.

You can keep thinking all is fine in Sony land. I'll let the financials speak for themselves. I'm not one to look at sales figures much but there's a reason why major exclusives like Tekken, FF series, etc have went multiplatform.That actually has very little to do with why those games went multiplatform. Games are getting harder and harder for 3rd parties to make a profit on. 3rd party Japanese developers have been having a particularly hard time this gen. Overall budgets for 360/PS3 games have gone up dramatically this gen. Neither 360 nor PS3 has managed to equal the sales of the PS2, but even if one console had, it still wouldn't be enough to justify a 3rd party developer going exclusive without direct support from Sony/MS.

Development costs are astronomically higher compared to last gen, but only the Wii has outstripped the PS2's sales history. Therefore, more and more developers have to go multiplatform.

However, for much of the PS3's lifespan, the 360 was cheaper and easier to develop for, so there were a whole slew of de-facto exclusives. But moving into 2009, it looks like the majority of exclusives are being paid for by Sony or MS. These days, getting direct financial support from Sony/MS is just about the only way a 3rd-party developer can make money from an exclusive title.

You can keep thinking all is fine in Sony land. I'll let the financials speak for themselves. I'm not one to look at sales figures much but there's a reason why major exclusives like Tekken, FF series, etc have went multiplatform.

Haha, Tekken hasn't been relevant for almost a decade; the last good Tekken was Tag Tournament which came out in 2000. And that was pretty much only liked because of the bowling minigame. The series has been downhill since then.

I bought my 60 gb ps3 for two reasons: blu ray and backwards compatibly. I started on a ps2 and have a lot of ps2 games and fond memories. I do have 4 ps 3 games, but now buy multiplatform on the 360. None of my friends have a ps3, they all have 360's. So if I want to play my friends and trade games, I go with the 360. I would like to see an exclusive so worth buying, that my friends jump aboard the ps3. Its a great piece of hardware, but its not getting a lot of love from my friends. The fact that 3 years after they were the unquestioned leader to 3rd place would worry me if I had sony stock. But their long term strategy and winning the format war were other reasons and priorities. Frankly, I think it was lack of a developers kit and the kits costs, that hurt them initially. Plus the price point. I think they must have a plan. Maybe a spring ad campaign and a price reduction?

I bought my 60 gb ps3 for two reasons: blu ray and backwards compatibly. I started on a ps2 and have a lot of ps2 games and fond memories. I do have 4 ps 3 games, but now buy multiplatform on the 360. None of my friends have a ps3, they all have 360's. So if I want to play my friends and trade games, I go with the 360. I would like to see an exclusive so worth buying, that my friends jump aboard the ps3. Its a great piece of hardware, but its not getting a lot of love from my friends. The fact that 3 years after they were the unquestioned leader to 3rd place would worry me if I had sony stock. But their long term strategy and winning the format war were other reasons and priorities. Frankly, I think it was lack of a developers kit and the kits costs, that hurt them initially. Plus the price point. I think they must have a plan. Maybe a spring ad campaign and a price reduction?

GT5 bundle!

I bought my PS3 because I love shiny new technology...:o

I dont use it as much as my 360, but if I only owned a PS3 it would definitely not be disappointing. It only seems disappointing when compared with the 360, since I bought into the original hype thinking that it would be leaps and bounds superior system to the 360. My fault for being naive, in other words.

Lessons learned. Im not dissatisfied, though.

Basically, this is all because saying that the game selection is important, but the exclusive games don't matter just doesn't make sense, man.

What bass said makes sense; you're just misinterpreting his point.

Whether or not a game is exclusive makes no difference to me either. We didn't buy the system for exclusive games. We bought the system for games. Period. If a game is available on another system, so what? As long as it plays on ours it is inconsequential.

Back in my high school days, we didn't have a nifty little ps3 to play with...so we beat up the debate team on a regular basis (as we thought they were always fighting with each other...and we were tougher). I bought my ps3 so I wouldn't beat up any more debate nerds.

What :confused:

What bass said makes sense; you're just misinterpreting his point.

Whether or not a game is exclusive makes no difference to me either. We didn't buy the system for exclusive games. We bought the system for games. Period. If a game is available on another system, so what? As long as it plays on ours it is inconsequential.

I'm interpreting what he said by what he said, not what he meant but didn't say, and not what you said he meant.

What was confusing about what he said was that he used the word Selection. As in the Selection of games for the PS3 is a major reason to choose the PS3. It follows that choosing based on selection means that there is a difference, otherwise you can't use that to choose. Therefore the difference is important.

He wanted a gaming system that plays BDs, cool, so did I. But the way he said it made no sense, and I'm glad he did because I couldn't do what I needed to do and it was a good distraction.

I wish my High School had a debate team, maybe I'd have been able to hold together a complete thought. Hm, maybe they did but I was too burnt to notice, I'll have to go check the ol yearbook.

Haha, Tekken hasn't been relevant for almost a decade; the last good Tekken was Tag Tournament which came out in 2000. And that was pretty much only liked because of the bowling minigame. The series has been downhill since then.

Possibly but I'm just one of them Tekken fanboiz :D:D

Only other fighter that got me playing for hours on end was SF2, which I downloaded the HD remix and play a lot from time to time. Many other fighters interest me but for a short time span. I feel like I have ADD playing them lol

Your two posts are full of contradictions, that's why they don't compute.

You stated two reasons for going PS3:
Game selection
Blu Ray

You say that the Blu Ray is not the number one reason.

You say that the exclusive games didn't influence your decision, so then that leaves the multi-platform games, which by definition is available on both systems.

So, adding some of that stuff up, you are saying that the reason you bought the PS3 is because it has the same games as the XBox. Which does not compute.

So, logically I concluded that your biggest influence to buy the PS3 over the XBox was the BD player, because that's the only thing that can make sense out of the stuff you said originally, but you told me that was wrong, too.

Reading the rest of your post, I'm guessing what you really meant was that the combination of features like the BD player, free online play, and the feel of the controller, made the PS3 the best package for you. Which, btw is my response when a friend asks why not go with the XBox, but I also say that I want to play GranTourismo and God of War when they come out. That, and I got it for $210 ($399 - 15% (Dell online coupon) +tax - $150 from PS Card (which reminds me, I have to fill out that rebate form to get that $150 back))


Basically, this is all because saying that the game selection is important, but the exclusive games don't matter just doesn't make sense, man.


Dude. Seriously? Let me try this one more time and see if I can break it down into small enough bites.


Bassmonkeee want new video game system to go with big shiny new HD TV and big not so shiny new house.

Bassmonkeee compare two next gen systems.

Bassmonkeee want HD gaming and HD movies. Can go 360+HD DVD or PS3

Bassmonkeee not like 360+HD-DVD method. Bassmonkeee also think Toshiba not paying attention to beta tape in 80s.


Bassmonkeee prefer PS3 controller, even if it doesn't have last gen feature like rumble

Bassmonkeee know both systems will have lots of great games.

Bassmonkeee also know that both system have game not available on both system. Bassmonkeee shake angry fist at gods and executives.

Bassmonkeee know he not have enough time or money to play every game that come out anyway because he have wife who tell him this. Not so shiny new house need new paint and bassmonkeee to paint it says wife.

Bassmonkeee buy PS3.



Does that help? Seriously, my point was that exclusives are not every person's #1 reason to buy a game console. Nor are movies. And, sometimes you simply don't have enough time at work with a broken shoulder to type out long responses while on pain killers.

That actually has very little to do with why those games went multiplatform. Games are getting harder and harder for 3rd parties to make a profit on. 3rd party Japanese developers have been having a particularly hard time this gen. Overall budgets for 360/PS3 games have gone up dramatically this gen. Neither 360 nor PS3 has managed to equal the sales of the PS2, but even if one console had, it still wouldn't be enough to justify a 3rd party developer going exclusive without direct support from Sony/MS.

Development costs are astronomically higher compared to last gen, but only the Wii has outstripped the PS2's sales history. Therefore, more and more developers have to go multiplatform.

However, for much of the PS3's lifespan, the 360 was cheaper and easier to develop for, so there were a whole slew of de-facto exclusives. But moving into 2009, it looks like the majority of exclusives are being paid for by Sony or MS. These days, getting direct financial support from Sony/MS is just about the only way a 3rd-party developer can make money from an exclusive title.

Agreed on the whole HD gaming costs a ton more to develop nowadays but that is just more of the reason for the developers to go multiplatform when the main competitor of the PS3 has a bigger user base along with larger buying power. I'm all about multiplatform titles. If a game is truely great I don't want a single console owner to be limited to his preference of a given console.

Here's the thing, if games cost that much more nowadays, why take the risk sticking to one platform? I'll say it again, the main reason why the vast majority of people buy a specific game console is for the exclusives. Some of us here wanted Bluray also and at the time it was significantly a better player than the rest, and even less wanted free online play (which I really wished LIVE were free), with even less caring for WIFI and web browsing, etc. Major exclusive franchise titles will move systems more than any feature. Bluray is the big bonus though so tag that along with a major release and = win. GT series I would bet any amount of money will move a great number of consoles. If Sony promoted LBP the right way we might have seen bigger units both software and hardware sold. If FF stayed exclusive, RPG fans would flock over in a similar manner. and so on.

bassmonkee make imdjenk lol

Since none of you guys seem particularly passionate about your opinions, maybe you should keep arguing them over and over because it's obvious at some point one of you will convince the other.

:rolleyes:

Here's the thing, if games cost that much more nowadays, why take the risk sticking to one platform? I'll say it again, the main reason why the vast majority of people buy a specific game console is for the exclusives.I totally agree with your point, just not with the implication. Exclusives serve no one's interest other than console manufacturers'. Exclusives are not (for the most part) in developers' or consumers' best interest.

With development costs rising like mad, developers need financial assurances from console manufacturers that they can make a return on their investment of time and money. If they can secure a contractual relationship with a manufacturer, developers are stoked because that means they have a steady income, reliable tech/software/personnel support, and a steady job. But there are only so many of those relationships that a manufacturer can afford. That's why both Sony and MS have let many close developer relationships go.

The solution for developers is to go multiplatform, which is exactly what they're doing. It only looks like a mass "Sony exodus" because so many IPs were de-facto exclusives for the ridiculously successful PS2 (which sold enough consoles and games to support non-contractual exclusives). But really it's because neither Sony nor MS has the money or resources to subsidize so many exclusivity contracts.

The rumors of PS3's death have been greatly exagerated, apparently....

You can keep thinking all is fine in Sony land. I'll let the financials speak for themselves. I'm not one to look at sales figures....

LET'S!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10132039-52.html

For its part, Sony said recently that sales of the PlayStation 3 between January 1, 2008, and November 30, 2008, were up 60 percent from the same period a year earlier, though the company has not yet released any kind of figures for December.

"We've had a solid holiday season and have delivered consistent growth throughout this year. Two thousand eight was a pivotal year for PlayStation with the best software line up in the industry, a dramatic expansion of PlayStation Network including the launches of the video delivery service and the beta of the PlayStation Home," Ian Jackson, vice president of sales for Sony Computer Entertainment America, said in a statement. "Early internal data points to an increase of more than 130 percent of PS3 hardware sales for the holiday season--since Black Friday--and we're also seeing a growth of nearly 40 percent in total PS3 hardware sales for the calendar year. We remain confident this momentum will continue into the new year."

bassmonkee make imdjenk lol
BM made kekborg LOL too...

Since none of you guys seem particularly passionate about your opinions, maybe you should keep arguing them over and over because it's obvious at some point one of you will convince the other.

:rolleyes:

Martez...say it again, but louder (I agree completly by the way).

i could never own anything other than ps hardware. i don't understand how so many people made the jump. wtf?


oh that's right, the ps3 is still way too ****ing expensive. it's almost comical, the price of these things. still, i wouldn't trade it in for that pos rrod box that micro-suck makes.

edit:

btw, i know the ps3 is a great deal as-is. just had to clear that bit up.

I was just at GS (yea, I know) and the girl behind the counter was listening to me and the guy employee talk about the fact that we still have Atari 2600s and 7800s, and how they still work. She said "That amazes me, I get a 360 and within weeks it's dead". I said, "Maybe you should have invested in a PS3..." ;)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10132039-52.html

Look it over... they compared month to month sales. They promoted the increase from poor Nov sales to busy XMAS Dec sales lol Their PR dept really freakin sucks

Look it over... they compared month to month sales. They promoted the increase from poor Nov sales to busy XMAS Dec sales lol Their PR dept really freakin sucks

I don't see where it says that.

I don't see where it says that.

Me either. They explained that they were going up against a big price drop last November which caused them to sell fewer units in November 2008. Despite that, from the end of November to Dec. 24, sales where up 150% from the previous year which kind of puts a dent in the arguments of those who want to claim that the PS3 is DOOMED...DOOMED!!!

I'm not sure how simply pointing out that the PS3 had a decent year, save for one month, especially during this Christmas season is an example of bad PR.

Me either. They explained that they were going up against a big price drop last November which caused them to sell fewer units in November 2008. Despite that, from the end of November to Dec. 24, sales where up 150% from the previous year which kind of puts a dent in the arguments of those who want to claim that the PS3 is DOOMED...DOOMED!!!

I'm not sure how simply pointing out that the PS3 had a decent year, save for one month, especially during this Christmas season is an example of bad PR.

That's how I read it too, but it is better to just wait for the NPD numbers next week anyways.

Me either. They explained that they were going up against a big price drop last November which caused them to sell fewer units in November 2008. Despite that, from the end of November to Dec. 24, sales where up 150% from the previous year which kind of puts a dent in the arguments of those who want to claim that the PS3 is DOOMED...DOOMED!!!

I'm not sure how simply pointing out that the PS3 had a decent year, save for one month, especially during this Christmas season is an example of bad PR.

I don't know where you are getting 150 from but the point is that if the increase from Black Friday was only 130% then based on Novembers number 378,000 would state that December for the PS3 was from 7-800,000 sold. That will be a decrease or increase compared to December 07 and that means for the 2nd year they still have not had a million sold compared to the 360 which is projected at 1.2 to 1.6mil units sold. I am not saying it is DOOMED but it still isn't catching up. MS saids they are up to 28mil compared to 20mil for the PS3.

So, basically, Microsoft has moved 28 mil 360s since Nov 2005, and Sony has sold 20 mil PS3s since Nov 2006--Roughly 1/3rd fewer consoles in 1/3rd less time.


And, at a consistently higher price.

So, basically, Microsoft has moved 28 mil 360s since Nov 2005, and Sony has sold 20 mil PS3s since Nov 2006--Roughly 1/3rd fewer consoles in 1/3rd less time.


And, at a consistently higher price.

Yes but that momentum for the PS3 started to decline in August and by October the 360 passed PS3 in YTD sales. November sales were down for the PS3 compared to increases for both Wii and 360 in Nov 08 compared to the Nov 07. Sony stated that part of the decline was due to the price drop in 07 compared to the same time period for Nov. Up until October shows YTD increase compared to 07 and then November was a decline. Now with Sony saying they increased from November(378,000) to December(if they are saying 130% then it is only an increase to 7-800,000 units sold for that month) That would mean that whatever next week shows for December will tell you if they increased in sales for the year compared to 07.

With MS qouting the 28mil compared to 20mil, I think that is worldwide shipment vs consumer sales.

Just a month ago MS and Sony were stating they were 25mil and 17mil then.

Bassmonkee, that was awesome!


Since none of you guys seem particularly passionate about your opinions, maybe you should keep arguing them over and over because it's obvious at some point one of you will convince the other.

:rolleyes:

That's waht the internet is for!

I don't know where you are getting 150 from ...

You are correct. It was only 130. My mistake.

....but the point is that if the increase from Black Friday was only 130% then based on Novembers number 378,000 would state that December for the PS3 was from 7-800,000 sold.

The numbers are in comparison to the same time last year (the same as what the lousy Nov. numbers compared), not just since Nov 2008. If you read the sentence, they are talking about comparisons from last year, where they also state that for 2008 total sales are up 40%. It's not "news" that you increase sales in general during the Christmas season and it's clear that wasn't what the Sony people where claiming.

That will be a decrease or increase compared to December 07

The important number is Dec. 07. For instance, if they sold 500K last December, then they sold 1.15 million this Christmas.

MS saids they are up to 28mil compared to 20mil for the PS3.

As it's been pointed out, they have sold 1/3 less units in 1/3 less time. In other worlds, the PS3 has been selling as many units in the same time frame as the 360 for a lot more money, and based on the latest claims by Sony (which I know should be taken with a grain of salt) PS3 sales are growing. You can't just take a couple of months and make an analysis as you've tried to do. Especially given the latest numbers.

I think the 360 is the console that's doomed for failure.

1) They had a year head start with no competition
2) They have a version that sells for less than the Wii (The WII, fer crying out loud)
3) They have already had to discontinue their HD-DVD drive because they backed the losing format
4) As Mboo pointed out, they have sold at the same rate historically as the PS3 in spite of ALWAYS having a lower price point.


Using selective information is fun!

bassmonkee, that was awesome!



yay!!

That's waht the internet is for!

Wrong. The internet is for porn. Discuss that, it might be more interesting guys.

So, basically, Microsoft has moved 28 mil 360s since Nov 2005, and Sony has sold 20 mil PS3s since Nov 2006--Roughly 1/3rd fewer consoles in 1/3rd less time.


And, at a consistently higher price.

VERY impressive for MS when you consider they are up against the #1 company in videogames for the last DECADE. Look at the sales of the PS2 and XBox. Sony had 125+ Million VS Microsoft's 25M units and yet they have performed this well this generation.

The numbers are in comparison to the same time last year (the same as what the lousy Nov. numbers compared), not just since Nov 2008. If you read the sentence, they are talking about comparisons from last year, where they also state that for 2008 total sales are up 40%. It's not "news" that you increase sales in general during the Christmas season and it's clear that wasn't what the Sony people where claiming.

Except that is exactly what they did do in two parts:

Ian Jackson, vice president of sales for Sony Computer Entertainment America, said in a statement. "Early internal data points to an increase of more than 130 percent of PS3 hardware sales for the holiday season--since Black Friday

You and Mikazaru both said you didn't see what Cuco33 was talking about when this piece is what he was referring to. That part is referring to only the increase since Black Friday.

--and we're also seeing a growth of nearly 40 percent in total PS3 hardware sales for the calendar year. We remain confident this momentum will continue into the new year."

That would be the other part about the total sales for the U.S.

However, the PS3 was the only one of the three next-generation consoles to see its November 2008 sales drop from a year earlier. According to NPD, sales of the PS3 fell 18.8 percent, from 466,000 to 378,000. By comparison, Wii sales skyrocketed 108 percent, from 981,000 to 2.04 million and the Xbox grew 8.6 percent, from 770,000 to 836,000.

Here is where you take that number 378,000 and the qoute about 130 percent and you get about 770,000.

Here is what Dec 07 looked like:

NPD December 2007

HW Sales
System December 2007 Annual 2007
PlayStation 2 1.1 million 3.97 million
PlayStation 3 797.6 K 2.56 million
PlayStation Portable 1.06 million 3.82 million
Xbox 360 1.26 million 4.62 million
Wii 1.35 million 6.29 million
Nintendo DS 2.47 million 8.50 million


So if that number is possibly 770,000 by next weeks NPD release that will mean two months in a row sales has declined while MS has increased in sales from last month and a year ago.


I think the 360 is the console that's doomed for failure.

1) They had a year head start with no competition
2) They have a version that sells for less than the Wii (The WII, fer crying out loud)
3) They have already had to discontinue their HD-DVD drive because they backed the losing format
4) As Mboo pointed out, they have sold at the same rate historically as the PS3 in spite of ALWAYS having a lower price point.


Using selective information is fun!

When you put it that way it actually looks pretty impressive for the MS to do what they did(even though you didn't include RROD on that list) that a company that has there 2nd outing and already beat Xbox total sales(25mil) kind of makes you wonder how Sony with that sales rate hasn't done better than what they are doing.

VERY impressive for MS when you consider they are up against the #1 company in videogames for the last DECADE. Look at the sales of the PS2 and XBox. Sony had 125+ Million VS Microsoft's 25M units and yet they have performed this well this generation.

And?

I may have already even used this argument in this very thread (PS3 vs. 360 threads pop up everywhere and I'm always eager to participate), but I don't think hardware sales are, or really have ever been the issue for the PS3. They move enough units and have a large enough base to where I think reports of the PS3 as a failure hardware-wise are pretty off target.

The problem is in software sales, the bread and butter for console makers due to the licensing fees they rake in. The PS3 has a fairly poor attach rate when compared to the 360, and titles like LBP and Resistance 2 don't seem like they have performed up to the level that Sony was expecting. If you compare games that have sold a million copies between the PS3 and 360, you'll see an enormous gulf between them. Whether it be due to people using the PS3 as a Blu-ray player or simply different gaming habits, I don't know, but I would like to see Sony make a push for people to buy more software to not only give us gamers a larger, more diverse community to play these games with (or create content for), but also to keep third-party developers from falling to the trends and not devoting as many resources or not including content in the PS3 ports (or worse, not porting them at all).

VERY impressive for MS when you consider they are up against the #1 company in videogames for the last DECADE. Look at the sales of the PS2 and XBox. Sony had 125+ Million VS Microsoft's 25M units and yet they have performed this well this generation.

And?

And, I think that's pretty much par for the course as far as I can remember.

Atari was video games, then Nintendo came along with 8 bit OMGRAPHICS, they held strong for a few generations keeping Sega at bay, then Sony comes along and rips the market out from under them, holds it for a while, then MS comes and beats up on Sony. Each new competitor was able to bring the next generation faster than the current king.

Atari never made a comeback.

Nintendo wasn't able to really compete with its replacement for years until it made it's own nitch.

I'll give credit to Sony for losing the market and still staying alive enough to be competitive.

That's what I can remember happening, but I was rather busy growing up and not caring about any of this business crap.

That's what I can remember happening, but I was rather busy growing up and not caring about any of this business crap.

The latest Sonic the Hedgehog game didn't mean a whole lot once all of the girls around me started to develop nice boobs, too.

The latest Sonic the Hedgehog game didn't mean a whole lot once all of the girls around me started to develop nice boobs, too.

Yeah. Until the second Ecco the Dolphin came out.

Except that is exactly what they did do in two parts:

Ian Jackson, vice president of sales for Sony Computer Entertainment America, said in a statement. "Early internal data points to an increase of more than 130 percent of PS3 hardware sales for the holiday season--since Black Friday

You and Mikazaru both said you didn't see what Cuco33 was talking about when this piece is what he was referring to. That part is referring to only the increase since Black Friday.

Black Friday till Dec 24. That's the traditional Christmas selling season. He didn't say 130% over November sales. No one that I know compares sales in this way month to month. He's comparing this year's Christmas "holiday season" to last years. He's not comparing the holiday season to some other month.

When you put it that way it actually looks pretty impressive for the MS to do what they did(even though you didn't include RROD on that list) that a company that has there 2nd outing and already beat Xbox total sales(25mil) kind of makes you wonder how Sony with that sales rate hasn't done better than what they are doing.

Increased competition from Nintendo, and they were last to market with their nex-gen console with a huge price difference.

Microsoft wouldn't be were they are now if they where still charging the same price they where at the point Sony is in it's product cycle.

VERY impressive for MS when you consider they are up against the #1 company in videogames for the last DECADE. Look at the sales of the PS2 and XBox. Sony had 125+ Million VS Microsoft's 25M units and yet they have performed this well this generation.

I think you're overestimating how strongly each console generation is correlated. Nintendo was in the dumps sales wise last gen and is now dominating the current generation. Additionally, PS didn't even exist during the SNES/Genesis generation and then went on to dominate the PS1/N64 generation. In that context, MS's performance doesn't seem particularly impressive, especially considering that it has far more financial resources than Sony and Nintendo.

He didn't say 130% over November sales. No one that I know compares sales in this way month to month. He's comparing this year's Christmas "holiday season" to last years

Which pretty much means the month of December compared to last December which is not what his statement is saying. If he was comparing last years H season then he would have made that clear and stated somthing like:

"Holiday season PS3 sales jumped 130 percent compared to last years holiday season."

So if that is what you are saying and in 07 during the same period they did 800K, then the increase of 130 percent would me they did about 1,630,000 for this December. Is that what you interpet what he is saying since you are saying that statement is meant as a year to year comparison?

Microsoft wouldn't be were they are now if they where still charging the same price they where at the point Sony is in it's product cycle.

Okay. Althought I think it is more than just simply dropping the price that put them in the position they are in today both positive and the obvious mistakes.

Black Friday till Dec 24. That's the traditional Christmas selling season. He didn't say 130% over November sales. No one that I know compares sales in this way month to month. He's comparing this year's Christmas "holiday season" to last years. He's not comparing the holiday season to some other month.



Increased competition from Nintendo, and they were last to market with their nex-gen console with a huge price difference.

Microsoft wouldn't be were they are now if they where still charging the same price they where at the point Sony is in it's product cycle.

Look, the fact is that the PS3 has sold more systems than the Xbox 360 had at this point in its lifecycle. Factor in the fact that many Xbox 360 owners have owned multiple systems due to RRoD, and Microsoft considers each of them systems sold, and PS3 ain't doin' too bad.

I think you're overestimating how strongly each console generation is correlated. Nintendo was in the dumps sales wise last gen and is now dominating the current generation. Additionally, PS didn't even exist during the SNES/Genesis generation and then went on to dominate the PS1/N64 generation. In that context, MS's performance doesn't seem particularly impressive, especially considering that it has far more financial resources than Sony and Nintendo.

You would think the more "experienced company" would be doing better than the company that has more money. Well 1 out of the 2 companies is doing better. Sony isn't doing bad at all because as we have seen this gen the industry can handle 3 consoles + portables but saying that MS has more money they should be doing even better than a company that has dominated the last decade seems kind of odd. That means the Zune should be in more hands than the Ipod.

Factor in the fact that many Xbox 360 owners have owned multiple systems due to RRoD, and Microsoft considers each of them systems sold,

What? Proof? NPD doesn't count them so how are you claiming that?

A lot of people just bought new systems because of RROD. To get HDMI or whatever, then traded in their old system or sold it. Obviously that counts as a new system sold. Of course its impossible for anyone to be able to tell which is which.

You would think the more "experienced company" would be doing better than the company that has more money. Well 1 out of the 2 companies is doing better. Sony isn't doing bad at all because as we have seen this gen the industry can handle 3 consoles + portables but saying that MS has more money they should be doing even better than a company that has dominated the last decade seems kind of odd. That means the Zune should be in more hands than the Ipod.

As I stated before, experience did not serve Nintendo well during the PS1/N64 generation. As has been demonstrated multiple times, Sony's domination for two straight generations was actually not a normal event.

The latest Sonic the Hedgehog game didn't mean a whole lot once all of the girls around me started to develop nice boobs, too.

lol :p:p:p

Man I loved Sonic when I was younger but I too lost interest. I heard the last one that was released was actually a good and worthy Sonic release though

A lot of people just bought new systems because of RROD. To get HDMI or whatever, then traded in their old system or sold it. Obviously that counts as a new system sold. Of course its impossible for anyone to be able to tell which is which.

My apologies then slicecom. I thought you were referring to sending your 360 off to MS for replacments.

I don't see where it says that.

Me either. They explained that they were going up against a big price drop last November which caused them to sell fewer units in November 2008. Despite that, from the end of November to Dec. 24, sales where up 150% from the previous year which kind of puts a dent in the arguments of those who want to claim that the PS3 is DOOMED...DOOMED!!!

I'm not sure how simply pointing out that the PS3 had a decent year, save for one month, especially during this Christmas season is an example of bad PR.

Black Friday till Dec 24. That's the traditional Christmas selling season. He didn't say 130% over November sales. No one that I know compares sales in this way month to month. He's comparing this year's Christmas "holiday season" to last years. He's not comparing the holiday season to some other month.



I'll say it again, Sony's PR needs to put down the crack pipe. 1st they take over a month to explain why Nov 07 to Nov 08 sales dropped year to year, blaming it on last year's price drop that in my book they kind of had to do (and not mentioning much of economic hard times mind you) and then preached 130% increase. Due to some confusion, they had to restate the 130% increase was from poor Nov 08 sales to good Dec 08 sales (i.e. xmas time). I've never really heard a comparison month to month like that especially during the holiday season. This isn't a doom n gloom post, it's more of a fact and reality check like I tend to do (i.e. during the whole RROD fiasco where MS called out 3-5% I laughed HARD at not only MS PR's spin but also the fanboiz spin on how true this figure was). And in case you guys didn't catch it, check it out:

"UPDATE: SCEA contacted us to let us know that the sales jump of 130% reflects the increase between sales before the holiday season and during it, and not year to year as previously reported." i.e. month to month. It's Dec, best gaming month sales wise. No surprise an increase in sales really.

I'm not a fanboy btw, I just hate PR people who spew crap out their mouth over spun statistics and the fanboys that preach it as gospel. Again, Sony is doing fine with the PS3, just not as good as they probably would like.

I think the 360 is the console that's doomed for failure.

1) They had a year head start with no competition
2) They have a version that sells for less than the Wii (The WII, fer crying out loud)
3) They have already had to discontinue their HD-DVD drive because they backed the losing format
4) As Mboo pointed out, they have sold at the same rate historically as the PS3 in spite of ALWAYS having a lower price point.


Using selective information is fun!


You can say that again! But note, I don't think MS really backed HDDVD like a partner of their caliber really should have. I think they backed HDDDVD purposely to slow Blu from taking off, essentially stalling not just the game console market but also the media market, as they have pushed downloads and streaming significantly more than slapping the MS name on an external high def drive

Wrong. The internet is for porn. Discuss that, it might be more interesting guys.

To be fair, you got to do something when the porn downloads! :D

Look, the fact is that the PS3 has sold more systems than the Xbox 360 had at this point in its lifecycle. Factor in the fact that many Xbox 360 owners have owned multiple systems due to RRoD, and Microsoft considers each of them systems sold, and PS3 ain't doin' too bad.

You're only looking at 1 side, even though it is somewhat sound. How many PS3 owners have done similar? I mean how many bought more than 1 PS3 for whatever reason, whether it be a second/third system, replacing a damaged out of warranty system, for Bluray, etc? On these boards alone there's a few that have said 'I bought 2/more PS3s, mainly as a BD player.

In this e-pissing contest you have to factor in hardware and software sales, not just tidbits of spun statistical data. Rates at which systems sell is just a small portion since many multiconsole owners wanted high def films as well as certain exclusive games (i.e. myself. I have purchased significantly more 360 titles because I have had more 360 friends and use my PS3 more for media streaming and Bluray than gaming... anecdotal yes but it's my story.) Both are doing fine, 1 is surpassing expectations while the other is falling just shy of them.

You can say that again! But note, I don't think MS really backed HDDVD like a partner of their caliber really should have. I think they backed HDDDVD purposely to slow Blu from taking off, essentially stalling not just the game console market but also the media market, as they have pushed downloads and streaming significantly more than slapping the MS name on an external high def drive

Heh--My post was a joke. This is a joke thread, right?

Heh--My post was a joke. This is a joke thread, right?

Not consciously, but I would say that yes, this entire thread is a joke.

You're only looking at 1 side, even though it is somewhat sound. How many PS3 owners have done similar? I mean how many bought more than 1 PS3 for whatever reason, whether it be a second/third system, replacing a damaged out of warranty system, for Bluray, etc? On these boards alone there's a few that have said 'I bought 2/more PS3s, mainly as a BD player.

In this e-pissing contest you have to factor in hardware and software sales, not just tidbits of spun statistical data. Rates at which systems sell is just a small portion since many multiconsole owners wanted high def films as well as certain exclusive games (i.e. myself. I have purchased significantly more 360 titles because I have had more 360 friends and use my PS3 more for media streaming and Bluray than gaming... anecdotal yes but it's my story.) Both are doing fine, 1 is surpassing expectations while the other is falling just shy of them.

Yes, I agree that you have to look at it from both sides.

I just find it funny all this PS3-doom talk when it won Sony the Bluray/HDDVD war (this alone means it would make NO sense for Sony to stop supporting it), has sold more than the Xbox 360 at this point in its lifecycle, all while maintaining a higher initial pricepoint than the 360.

I'd say PS3 is in pretty good shape. Not as good of shape as Sony would have hoped, but I don't really care if Sony's goals are met, as long as I continue to get great games I can't get anywhere else (personally I bought PS3 exclusively for F1CE and Gran Turismo, everything else is a bonus) and Bluray playback, I'll continue to be happy. The fact that I have many more friends who own PS3 than 360 probably plays into that as well.

Heh--My post was a joke. This is a joke thread, right?

Of course, isn't what public boards are for? an extension of entertainment with a hint of knowledge? :cool:

Of course, isn't what public boards are for? an extension of entertainment with a hint of knowledge? :cool:

Boards like AVS fall under the AP* category.





*After Porn

You're only looking at 1 side, even though it is somewhat sound. How many PS3 owners have done similar?

How many PS3 owners have bought multiple units due to a acknowledged manufacturing flaw that disabled enough consoles to allow it's victims "class action" lawsuit status and get a huge extended warranty?

ZERO.

You are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure there are probably about the same number of users who get multiples due to convenience. I'm pretty sure that you're not going to be able to find the same for defects, based on the evidnece.

I'll say it again, Sony's PR needs to put down the crack pipe. 1st they take over a month to explain why Nov 07 to Nov 08 sales dropped year to year, blaming it on last year's price drop that in my book they kind of had to do (and not mentioning much of economic hard times mind you) and then preached 130% increase. Due to some confusion, they had to restate the 130% increase was from poor Nov 08 sales to good Dec 08 sales (i.e. xmas time). I've never really heard a comparison month to month like that especially during the holiday season. This isn't a doom n gloom post, it's more of a fact and reality check like I tend to do (i.e. during the whole RROD fiasco where MS called out 3-5% I laughed HARD at not only MS PR's spin but also the fanboiz spin on how true this figure was). And in case you guys didn't catch it, check it out:

"UPDATE: SCEA contacted us to let us know that the sales jump of 130% reflects the increase between sales before the holiday season and during it, and not year to year as previously reported." i.e. month to month. It's Dec, best gaming month sales wise. No surprise an increase in sales really.

I'm not a fanboy btw, I just hate PR people who spew crap out their mouth over spun statistics and the fanboys that preach it as gospel. Again, Sony is doing fine with the PS3, just not as good as they probably would like.

Thanks for clearing it up. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who interpreted the info in the way I did. Apparently most everyone else was doing the same!

Heh--My post was a joke. This is a joke thread, right?
Not consciously, but I would say that yes, this entire thread is a joke.
Noooooooooo! My precious fragile reality has been shattered! Luckily I can still fall back on being a smart-ass-doctor since I've watched so many episodes of House.

Noooooooooo! My precious fragile reality has been shattered! Luckily I can still fall back on being a smart-ass-doctor since I've watched so many episodes of House.

Just remember: it's never lupus!*


*except for that one time that it was

Boards like AVS fall under the AP* category.





*After Porn

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttt aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee you tttttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaalking aaaaaaaaaaaaaaabouttttttttttttt?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFPSSSSSSSSSSSS on PC is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaffffffffftttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrr porrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn... crrrrrrrrraaaaaaap I sssssssssstttttttttttuck ttttttttttheeeeeee keeeeeeeeeeeeyboaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd aaaaaaaaaagaaaaaaaaaaain :D

How many PS3 owners have bought multiple units due to a acknowledged manufacturing flaw that disabled enough consoles to allow it's victims "class action" lawsuit status and get a huge extended warranty?

ZERO.

You are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure there are probably about the same number of users who get multiples due to convenience. I'm pretty sure that you're not going to be able to find the same for defects, based on the evidnece.

In a way I am, in a way I'm not. I think you are making the replacement of failed consoles bigger than it probably is but I agree that the 360 side is much larger than mulitple PS3s in a single household. How large either are in my book aren't very large at all. Software sales wise, if your theory was correct, would be on par with each other and note that the longer a console is on the market, the harder the software sales and attach rate figures remain high due to second market being that much larger. These new sales figures, in general, still are much higher than the PS3 counterpart. I think only worldwide soccer franchises like FIFA and PES have a slight advantage to the PS3, mainly due to the EU and JAP regions which historically have always been Sony territories. I'll also agree that this point of view is VERY hard to prove by any means, no matter how big or small.

I like eggs...

Here is where you take that number 378,000 and the qoute about 130 percent and you get about 770,000.

Actually, a 130% increase from 378,000 is about 870,000. 797,000 were sold December 2007, so if the numbers hold up that would mean that the PS3 grew in sales for each month of 2008 except November when they were going up against a big price drop the year before.

I have a ton of friends with 360s and not one of them bought a new console when their 360 got the RROD. Why would they shell out another 300 bucks when they can get it fixed for free?

I like eggs...

...with bacon...ummmmm..oh, or ham...ummmmm

I have a ton of friends with 360s and not one of them bought a new console when their 360 got the RROD. Why would they shell out another 300 bucks when they can get it fixed for free?

Many people, particularly the 'hardcore gamers' market that Microsoft says they have cornered, don't like going weeks on end without their console and will buy another one. Especially considering how many different versions of 360 there are, I can see wanting to upgrade to a newer one for HDMI or a black case or something like that.

This just dawned on me... and works for both consoles. If someone sells off their system, whether it be a spare, a refurbed replacement, whatever, than we can't track that BUT we know that used untrackable sale to the new owner also happens. So the growth is still there, and the buying power grows as you now have 1 extra owner buying games. :cool:

If someone wanted to upgrade their 360 due to RROD, lack of HDMI, newer build type (same if the person wanted the PS2 BC, card readers, etc for PS3) their selloff of their system would still go to someone who would be buying games/accessories (and in PS3's case Blurays) if they wanted.

I think you are making the replacement of failed consoles bigger than it probably is .

This is awesome. Ya you're right...I personally know multiple people in a small city (omaha) that all have had 4+ xboxes. They are probably just very unlucky, I doubt it happens very often.

this entire thread is a joke.

Here's a fun fanboy fact:

MS's gaming division is still down in net profit between the Xbox and Xbox 360 generations. Sony's gaming division is still up in net profit for that same time period (despite a late start and heavy initial losses with the PS3).

Discuss.

This is awesome. Ya you're right...I personally know multiple people in a small city (omaha) that all have had 4+ xboxes. They are probably just very unlucky, I doubt it happens very often.

Think you missed the point... Did all your buds buy 4+ consoles? Or just 1 and get the faulty ones replaced, free, via MS, which won't count towards new purchases? The topic was that a faulty/nonHDMI unit was sold off and then the buyer picked up a newer model. In essence 2 360s purchased for 1 person, but no one mentioned what happened to the sold unit... It went somewhere, purchased to someone so to speak.

But geez! 4+!!! I personally only know people who are on their 2nd console! *knocks on wood* :D

Here's a fun fanboy fact:

MS's gaming division is still down in net profit between the Xbox and Xbox 360 generations. Sony's gaming division is still up in net profit for that same time period (despite a late start and heavy initial losses with the PS3).

Discuss.

PS2

/end discussion :p

Note, I didn't know MS was still down. I thought I read sometime during the summer, with the 1 bil due to RROD, that they are now in the green :confused:

PS2

/end discussion :pPS3 costs killed PS2 profits, but other gaming division revenue more than made up the difference. Licensing, PSP sales, first-party titles, etc.

Note, I didn't know MS was still down. I thought I read sometime during the summer, with the 1 bil due to RROD, that they are now in the green :confused:Up for 360 console costs/sales, down between the two consoles and the gaming division overall. :p Getting into the industry cost them a fortune, and getting the XBL infrastructure up and running was pricey.

But, really, my post was meant to be a joke. "Spin" is endless.

PS3 costs killed PS2 profits, but other gaming division revenue more than made up the difference.

I'm not one who asks for links, but I find that very hard to believe. I know even last year when the PS3 was still considered a big bleeder for Sony that the PSP and PS2 (moreso the PS2) hardware and software sales put the overall monthly/quarterly finances up there. Just not in the green yet when looking at development costs. PS3 had a huge development cost. Something like over 3 billion. I don't think Sony as a whole for gaming made anything near that since the system was launched but I don't recall if overall they did surpass that loss point thanks to PSP and PS2. That PS2 man... bread and freakin butter for Sony! And last I checked, Sony still loses on every PS3 sold to date as it's subsidized for software sales (I wouldn't include Bluray profits either; different market and Sony aren't the only ones in the BDA) :cool:

Up for 360, down between the two consoles overall. :p Getting into the industry cost them a fortune, and getting the XBL infrastructure was pricey.

What I read though was that even with xbox 1's massive negatives that the 360 hardware turning small profit, LIVE profit, and software and accessory profit that it passed the entire gaming loss point in the summer. Could be wrong but I heard it from multiple sources.

And I get it, as my post was also a joke, a real one but one nonetheless. ;)

There was just an article on "something" X on G4 TV stating that PS3 will be turning a profit before 360. Sorry I don't know the exact name of the show and all, I was flipping channels and caught the story. It just happens to be adjacent to my favorite channel (TCM).

What I read though was that even with xbox 1's massive negatives that the 360 hardware turning small profit, LIVE profit, and software and accessory profit that it passed the entire gaming loss point in the summer. Could be wrong but I heard it from multiple sources.

Well if you imagine that only 10 million of the 17 million Xbox Live users is on a paid "Gold" account, that's half a billion a year of pure green. That's not counting a CENT of what they make off the marketplace. (and I'm sure it's a lot as well) We have no idea how many XBL users are gold and how many are silver but I think 10 is more than fair as an example. (12-14m might be a better estimate)

So yeah, I'd say Xbox Live all together (subs and marketplace) makes about a billion a year for Microsoft. That's not something to sneeze at!

So yeah, I'd say Xbox Live all together (subs and marketplace) makes about a billion a year for Microsoft. That's not something to sneeze at!

Unless it took you > 1 Billion to get there.

I agree 1 Billion Bux is a lot.