I am helping out a relative select equipment for a Home Theater Project, and I need some help deciding on a Projector. I've only started learning about projectors and projector technology in the last month, so I dont know a lot about projectors yet. So far I have read reviews for the Mitsubishi HC7000 and the JVC RS2 at ProjectorCentral.com, which said the HC7000 and JVC RS2 were the best videophile projectors in their respective classes (They were reviewed nearly a year apart, and not compared to one another). I have also tried to read the separate threads for each projector, but those have proven to be fruitless as the threads are many pages long, and the information is to dispersed throughout the threads.

While both projectors received good ratings, there is no way of knowing which one is better. Further complicating the decision is that JVC has released the RS20. So I was hoping that some one could explain to me if one projector is better than the others, or point me to a place that provides answers to the my question.

What is important to me:
Image Quality, Image Quality, Image Quality!
Darker Black levels
Better ANSI Contrast Levels
Picture Sharpness
Accurate Color Saturation
Brightness, as long as the image doesn't appear washed out.
All of the above are important up to a point, as long as the image keeps a natural look.

Here are the things I am aware already aware of:
HC7000 costs about half of the RS20. - But price isn't a big factor compared to performance.
HC7000 is 3LCD. RS20 / RS2 are D-ILA/LCoS. Which is better Technology i don't know.
Projector Central gives the HC7000 ANSI Contrast of 409:1, JVC RS2 gets 209:1. No Rating for RS20.

So my question is which is the better projector for a videophile, the RS20 or HC7000, and are there any improvements in the RS20 from the RS2? I mean is the HC7000 which costs 1/2 as much, in a lower class of PJs from the JVC Models, or is there just a mark up for JVC? And is there a major difference between these models and even more expensive DLP models like the RUNCO RS1100? If there are any other projectors that have excellent image quality in this price range that you think are better feel free to mention them as well.
Thanks in Advance for your suggestions.

Expected Setup
123" 16:9 Stewart FireHawk G3 Screen
OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray player when it is released, or DVDO Edge hooked up to PS3.

Reserved.

RS20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of blacks and contrast
rs20/hc7000>rs2 in terms of sharpness
rs20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of lumens
epsons 6500ub > hc7000 in blacks and lumens, and is under $3k
overall probably like this :
rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in PQ

overall probably like this :
Rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in pq

+1

rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in PQ

+2

actually, if you are not budget constraint (as in must be <3K), remove all LCDs in your considerations and add some DLPs in it.

Black level is extremely important to me (even more so now that I own an RS20) - so RS20 would be the only projector for me at this time (regardless of price).

If you look at (one chip) DLP's - be sure your relative is not susceptible to RBE.

Not to hijack but im in a similar situation but the rs20 is out of budget.
so based on this
rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in PQ
a slightly used RS2 for 3800 is not a bad price, the exchange rate kind of kills it though. Would you consider a new Pioneer if it was only 1000 more then the 7500ub? Both trough my local dealer.

Art is going to try and get the rs10 in his review of the 6500ub if he gets it in time.

RS20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of blacks and contrast
rs20/hc7000>rs2 in terms of sharpness
rs20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of lumens
epsons 6500ub > hc7000 in blacks and lumens, and is under $3k
overall probably like this :
rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in PQ

Why rate hw10 so low? Below 6500UB AND hc7000?

Why rate hw10 so low? Below 6500UB AND hc7000?

+1

Given the "pot luck" surprise you can get with the latest LCDs, the HW10 is being under rated. The HW10 also offers the SXRD smoothness of the RS20 LCos.

I'd rate the choices as follows:

RS20>VW80>VW70>RS2>HW10/VW60>RS10>7500UB>6500UB>MC7000>AE3000

Wow, HW10 over the RS10? Could you please explain why you feel that way?

Wow, HW10 over the RS10? Could you please explain why you feel that way?

Because of the challenges involved with color decoding calibration. Certainly, there are some scenes where the RS10 contrast performance will have an advantage, but on balance the HW10 offers fewer compromises, IMHO.

I might also amend my RS20/VW80/VW70 ranking and say the Sony's might be preferred if the RS20 was less than perfect in areas such as convergence, color decoding and uniformity.

Okay, I understand.

I am presently looking at getting either a used RS1, a new Epson 6500ub, or a new Sony HW10.

For me the deciding factor will be black level and contrast in darker scenes.

On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate these 3 projectors in this regard?

JohnSmith,
I think you really need to view them and evaluate them on their own, as you're talking about different animals in the same bunch...i.e., lots of great reviews on the black levels of all three, but two are LCOS and the other is LCD, thus they have some inherent differences/advantages/disadvantages once you start looking at them. Aside from the engines, they also differ a bit in other areas (throw, controls, etc.). I personally don't think you can go wrong with any, but would suggest you consider the other features aside from contrast and black level as those three are likely to be VERY similar.

Markdub,

I think your suggestions do make a lot of sense for most normal people, but when it comes to black level and contrast, that is my #1 pq element by far. I have tried crt projectors because of this, but they all were too much of a pain, so I'm going digital.

I know that no digital can fully replicate the on/off contrast ratio of a crt, but I'm just trying to get the most for my $ in that regard.

Honestly, I probably would be happy with the contrast performance of the 3 pj's, but somehow in the back of my mind, if I don't get the best one, I may regret it.

I understand completely...I'm the same way when it comes to researching the living daylights out of HT gear and then going with whatever maximizes my desires within budget! Overall, my point is that you are looking at two LCOS projectors and one LCD. Even among the two LCOS, you have very different throw distances to start. I've been looking at all three too as part of my next projector purchase. I'd like to see a RS1 or the new RS10, but no luck yet. I hope to see the Sony soon at a local dealer. I'm interested in the Sony because of its shorter throw.

Thanks to everyone that has responded so far. It seems that a clear consensus has appeared that the RS20 is best projector of the ones discussed so far. But I do have questions.

RS20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of blacks and contrast
rs20/hc7000>rs2 in terms of sharpness
rs20>rs2>hc7000 in terms of lumens
epsons 6500ub > hc7000 in blacks and lumens, and is under $3k
overall probably like this :
rs20>rs2>6500ub>hc7000>hw10>ae3000 in PQ

Thank you very much. This is extremely helpful.

actually, if you are not budget constraint (as in must be <3K), remove all LCDs in your considerations and add some DLPs in it.

Why shouldn't LCDs be in considerations. I though LCos/D-ILA was based on LCD technology, but they aren't similar in terms of quality? I did consider some DLPs but its hard to find any information on individual projectors. I've heard the RUNCO RS1100 is really good, the image brigthness comes out to 34 fL on projector central, and i'm afraid the image will look washed out. But if anyone could list some that perform similar to the RS20, i will look at them. On a bigger picture, is it generally agreed that in terms of picture quality DLP > LCos/D-ILA > LCD? If so why?

Black level is extremely important to me (even more so now that I own an RS20) - so RS20 would be the only projector for me at this time (regardless of price).

If you look at (one chip) DLP's - be sure your relative is not susceptible to RBE.

By RBE do you mean the rainbow effect seen here ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/displays/SamsungHLN4365WRainbowClip.wmv
I have never seen it in person so i have no experience with it. How common of an experience is it? I assume looking at DLP 3chip isn't an option as they all seem to be $20,000 or more, probably double that of the budget on the projector.

Have all the above posters above actually seen all the projectors they comment on. I doubt it so I'd take their recommendations with a grain of salt. When it comes to black levels the only projectors that will do a full fade to proper black are gamma corrected CRTs - period! We'll have to wait to see what LEDs will do for digital. Now, few are willing to go with CRT front projection (basically a dead technology, but as we've seen with gamma correction there's some life left in it) due mainly to size and set up considerations, but it still offers what the videophile is looking for. Personally I'd go "cheap" since the technology is changing rapidly and many "videophiles" are upgrading endlessly and losing their shirts when they dump their "old" equipment. You need to make the effort to see as many of these projectors as possible. There are probably members of this forum who live within driving distance who own one of the pjs you're interested in - put the word out and go and have a look for yourself.

Have all the above posters above actually seen all the projectors they comment on. I doubt it so I'd take their recommendations with a grain of salt. When it comes to black levels the only projectors that will do a full fade to proper black are gamma corrected CRTs - period! We'll have to wait to see what LEDs will do for digital. Now, few are willing to go with CRT front projection (basically a dead technology, but as we've seen with gamma correction there's some life left in it) due mainly to size and set up considerations, but it still offers what the videophile is looking for. Personally I'd go "cheap" since the technology is changing rapidly and many "videophiles" are upgrading endlessly and losing their shirts when they dump their "old" equipment. You need to make the effort to see as many of these projectors as possible. There are probably members of this forum who live within driving distance who own one of the pjs you're interested in - put the word out and go and have a look for yourself.Good point. I went the cheap route with a Mits HC6500 at a super discounted price and it is a really nice problem free projector...I will wait to see what is availabe in 2-3 years. ;)

I went the crt route a couple of times. The one thing that wasn't said about them is that they are really dependent on optimum viewing conditions. I have a light controlled room, but with white carpet and ceiling. The picture gets washed out more than with digitals, due to it's lower brightness and ansi contrast.

IMHO, if black levels are your top priority, go with high NATIVE contrast projectors. High native contrast will have the greatest impact on image quality.

RS20>RS2>RS10>ALL...

Btw, to those suggesting to hold off and go the cheap route for now, I've tried that before and it just simply doesen't work out. Something better is ALWAYS just around the corner. It's all about compromises anyway, since a perfect solution will likely never exist. Just find a solution you can live with, in terms of its shortcomings, and call it a day.

My 2 cents...

Well I ranked 6500ub and hc7000 over hw10 based on the comments on how they compare, from projectorreviews.
If you are not going the larger screen route, I favor the HC7000 slightly over the Sony. The HC7000 has a visibly sharper image, it's even quieter, has black levels at least as good, and I'd give it the edge in just looking "right", as it has a very film-like image. The Mitsubishi left me more impressed after extended watching, then the Sony did.

I'll jump in... :)

Marantz VP-11S2>RS20>ALL under $10,000

hehe

Marantz gives you no motion blur plus DLP technology lasts the longest (almost nothing to degrade over time but color wheel) of all technologies.

The only thing the RS20 will be better in is in absolute black level and brightness, everything else you mentioned the marantz-vp11S2 takes top honors.

It has the most nautral looking image, outside a Pioneer kuro elite plasma.

But even if I were in the market for FP again, I would consider the RS20. I would possibly wait for a firmware update to CMS/THX mode, but thats just me.

If you would be interested in the Marantz vp-11S2 call AVS for a price, it's not the $15,000.00 you will see online.

.....
Marantz gives you no motion blur...

In the Mitsu HC7000's defense it is equipped with 24/48 frame interpolation which reduces motion blur on BD/HDDVD/Vudu significantly.

I am helping out a relative select equipment for a Home Theater Project, and I need some help deciding on a Projector. I've only started learning about projectors and projector technology in the last month, so I dont know a lot about projectors yet. So far I have read reviews for the Mitsubishi HC7000 and the JVC RS2 at ProjectorCentral.com, which said the HC7000 and JVC RS2 were the best videophile projectors in their respective classes (They were reviewed nearly a year apart, and not compared to one another). I have also tried to read the separate threads for each projector, but those have proven to be fruitless as the threads are many pages long, and the information is to dispersed throughout the threads.

While both projectors received good ratings, there is no way of knowing which one is better. Further complicating the decision is that JVC has released the RS20. So I was hoping that some one could explain to me if one projector is better than the others, or point me to a place that provides answers to the my question.

What is important to me:
Image Quality, Image Quality, Image Quality!
Darker Black levels
Better ANSI Contrast Levels
Picture Sharpness
Accurate Color Saturation
Brightness, as long as the image doesn't appear washed out.
All of the above are important up to a point, as long as the image keeps a natural look.

Here are the things I am aware already aware of:
HC7000 costs about half of the RS20. - But price isn't a big factor compared to performance.
HC7000 is 3LCD. RS20 / RS2 are D-ILA/LCoS. Which is better Technology i don't know.
Projector Central gives the HC7000 ANSI Contrast of 409:1, JVC RS2 gets 209:1. No Rating for RS20.

So my question is which is the better projector for a videophile, the RS20 or HC7000, and are there any improvements in the RS20 from the RS2? I mean is the HC7000 which costs 1/2 as much, in a lower class of PJs from the JVC Models, or is there just a mark up for JVC? And is there a major difference between these models and even more expensive DLP models like the RUNCO RS1100? If there are any other projectors that have excellent image quality in this price range that you think are better feel free to mention them as well.
Thanks in Advance for your suggestions.

Expected Setup
123" 16:9 Stewart FireHawk G3 Screen
OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray player when it is released, or DVDO Edge hooked up to PS3.

Others have answered as well, but short answer the RS20 (if you can still find them) is the best thing out there in this list. Sure the Mitsu is a tad sharper, but that is about the only advantage.

Thank you Jason, i voted with my wallet for the HC7000, no Bugatti in my garage yet:)

Thank you Jason, i voted with my wallet for the HC7000, no Bugatti in my garage yet:)

That is a good point (it is cheaper). Though it all again depends if he can even find an RS2 or RS20 (both discontinued).

You do know that Epson has a new model, the 8500/9500 is brand new, a year newer than the 6500 model you mention. The 8500 is also cheaper at many retailers than the older 6500. The contrast, picture color, etc are all improved on the newer Epson model. It just makes sense to me that if you are considering the Epson you might want to look at the current model, which like I said can be had (new) for a little less than the 6500.

You do know that Epson has a new model, the 8500/9500 is brand new, a year newer than the 6500 model you mention. The 8500 is also cheaper at many retailers than the older 6500.

It should be cheaper everywhere...it is a lower MSRP projector. :)

That is a good point (it is cheaper). Though it all again depends if he can even find an RS2 or RS20 (both discontinued).

After reading about the RS20 convergence issues i can see the zeal to sell these by some on Videogon and Ebay, sometimes at a deep discount. No thx, no $6000 PJ should be sold with convergence issues out of the barn unless it is a Sony IMHO.

After reading about the RS20 convergence issues i can see the zeal to sell these by some on Videogon and Ebay, sometimes at a deep discount. No thx, no $6000 PJ should be sold with convergence issues out of the barn unless it is a Sony IMHO.
Most 3-chip projectors have convergence off a bit. It's just the nature of the technology in the under-$50,000 projector market. I have friends who have had convergence issues with $30,000 and $40,000 3-chip SIM2 projectors. I think most of the owners who are selling RS20s are wanting to upgrade to the RS35. If these owners had convergence issues that were as bad as you make them out to be, they would have returned their projectors to the retailer.

After reading about the RS20 convergence issues i can see the zeal to sell these by some on Videogon and Ebay, sometimes at a deep discount. No thx, no $6000 PJ should be sold with convergence issues out of the barn unless it is a Sony IMHO.

There are no perfectly converged 3 chip projectors...none unless you get a fluke (even if you spend $100k). If that is a big concern, buy a single chip DLP.

And the Sony convergence correction has major downsides and doesn't necessarily fix all problems...

After reading about the RS20 convergence issues i can see the zeal to sell these by some on Videogon and Ebay, sometimes at a deep discount. No thx, no $6000 PJ should be sold with convergence issues out of the barn unless it is a Sony IMHO.

All JVC projectors have an ability to move each color vertically or horizontally in one pixel increments so that you should not have convergence issues more than 1/2 pixel out in any direction.

What convergence issues do you speak of?

All JVC projectors have an ability to move each color vertically or horizontally in one pixel increments so that you should not have convergence issues more than 1/2 pixel out in any direction.

What convergence issues do you speak of?

Indeed. I just bought a JVC RS20. No convergence issues viewed at 1x sw. First I've heard of RS20 "convergence issues".