Is there a list somewhere for movies that display subtitles within the movie frame and not the black letterbox bars?
Thanks

There are plenty BDs that have subtitles above lower black bar thus the subs is in the picture frame,this will get most advantage of cinemascope screen.The studios support ths issue are FOX UNIVERSAL PARAMOUNTwith DREAMWORK LUCAS'S FILM.SONY and WARNER should change the subtitles issue like most of studios,just my humble opinion.

Personally, it wrecks my head having the subs in the bar area. I'd rather have it in the image everytime. Ooooooooh, controversy!!!

This is one of Blu-ray's disappointments to me. This is supposed to be the next generation format, yet we're still stuck with standardized subtitles.

There's no reason that viewers shouldn't have control of both subtitle font size and placement. The needs of someone watching a movie on a 42" screen vary from one watching on a 120" screen, yet they're both stuck with the same subtitle presentation.

It's sad that they're not taking advantage of the format the way they could on most (if not all) titles.

Scott

Are we talking about subtitles that were part of the theatrical presentation of a film (eg, foreign languages being translated within an English-language film), or about encoded titles (eg, English subtitles for a foreign-language film)?

IMO, the former should be left alone while the latter should be user-controllable.

This is one of Blu-ray's disappointments to me. This is supposed to be the next generation format, yet we're still stuck with standardized subtitles.

There's no reason that viewers shouldn't have control of both subtitle font size and placement. The needs of someone watching a movie on a 42" screen vary from one watching on a 120" screen, yet they're both stuck with the same subtitle presentation.

It's sad that they're not taking advantage of the format the way they could on most (if not all) titles.

Scott

Blu-ray is a step backward from DVDs in this regard. There are DVD players, (e.g. Samsung EzyView and Theater Tek sw player) capable of repositioning subtitles. However, so-called protected video path of blu-ray does not allow the manufactures to interfere with the video path and reposition raster-image based subtitles (unless BDA/Sony develops certified code to achieve this). The movable ascii based subs do not work consistently on all blu-ray players (probably due to some screw-up in the BD-J subtitle specs). Therefore Studios do not use ascii based subs.

It is really a shame on the developers of blu-ray specs that this trivial issue of subtitle repositioning ended up like this.

This impacts millions of zoomers/blackbar-haters in non-English-speaking countries and I do not understand the reasons that BDA/Sony and Studios do not solve this major issue.

Passive movie watching is a proven business for decades. The major focus of the Studios should be to provide best movie watching experience to everybody and shift people to watch more movies rather than them reading magazines or watch sports. It appears that they have lost the focus on the main game and concentrating on trivial aspects such as BD-Live!

Go to the link below my signature. It is far from definitive but with everyone's help, it will grow

Go to the link below my signature. It is far from definitive but with everyone's help, it will grow

Top man, i hope the list grows :)

SUBTITLES IN PICTURE

Death Race BD
Fearless HD-DVD
The Incredible Hulk (2008) BD
Iron Man BD
Kill Bill Vol 1 BD
Kill Bill Vol 2 BD
Mummy 3: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor BD
Rambo (2008) BD
Star Wars: A New Hope DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi DVD
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace DVD
Transformers BD
U-571 BD

SUBTITLES NOT IN PICTURE

30 Days Of Night BD
CJ7 BD
Curse of the Golden Flower BD
Day Watch BD
Hancock BD - The subs are absolutely not important. It is a very short scene at the beginning.
The Hidden Fortress Criterion Collection DVD
House of Flying Daggers BD
Kung Fu Hustle BD
La Femme Nikita BD
Letters from Iwo Jima BD
Flash Point (HK import) BD
OSS 117: Cairo, Nest of Spies (French import) BD
The Professionals BD
Youth Without Youth BD

Go to the link below my signature. It is far from definitive but with everyone's help, it will grow

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102888
Just a reminder, please help us list the movies with subs in/out of the picture.
Thanks

Anybody else prefer white subtitles as opposed to yellow?

Pretty much any foreign film from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment puts the subtitles in the bottom letterbox bar of the 2.40:1 frame (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Kung Fu Hustle, 2046). I use mattes to cover the black bars and the practice of putting subtitles below the picture area pisses me off.

I still have 2 Samsung upconverting SD players that have the 'EZ View' feature as part of my scope setup for watching foreign language films. There are several foreign BD's that I've held back on purchasing because of the subtitle issue: 'Black Box', 'La Femme Nikita' (not interested in the english dubbed audio track), and 'Shinobi', to name a few. Thank God that 'The Orphanage' is the rare BD title that does have the entire subs within the image area. :(

Anybody else prefer white subtitles as opposed to yellow?
Yes. I'm watching The Last Exile on DVD at the moment, and the yellow subs are like a moth to a flame.

Subtitles in the black borders are awesome.

Otherwise useless frames now having a use? Yes please!

Subtitles in the black borders are awesome.

Otherwise useless frames now having a use? Yes please!

Wish to find out whether you are watching long foreign movies with subtitles.

When watching blackbar subtitles for a moderate length of time, it becomes tiring and difficult to concentrate on the movie and start reading subtitles rather than watching the movie. When the subs are within the frame it is seamless and could read subtitles without moving eyes outside the picture frame and subtitles become an integral part of the movie/picture. If subtitles are read only for short durations it is hard to understand this problem.

Blackbar-subtitles is a nightmare of the blackbar haters because subtitles appears on the black void which shouldn't be there as it is not part of the movie. Unfortunately Sony and WB do not understand this.

IIRC, wasn't BD originally advertised as supporting movable subtitles?
A Java feature?

However, so-called protected video path of blu-ray does not allow the manufactures to interfere with the video path and reposition raster-image based subtitles (unless BDA/Sony develops certified code to achieve this).

The simple solution to this is two subtitle tracks, one positioned in-frame and one in-letterbox-area, selectable from the menu. This really should be standard on all BDs.

The simple solution to this is two subtitle tracks, one positioned in-frame and one in-letterbox-area, selectable from the menu. This really should be standard on all BDs.

At least, all BDs with aspect ratios wider than 16:9. :)

IIRC, wasn't BD originally advertised as supporting movable subtitles?
A Java feature?That's what I thought, too.

Resizable, positionable, color-selectable, font-selectable subtitles: A film-watcher's dream come true.

Maybe in the next video format.

Scott

Wish to find out whether you are watching long foreign movies with subtitles.

When watching blackbar subtitles for a moderate length of time, it becomes tiring and difficult to concentrate on the movie and start reading subtitles rather than watching the movie. When the subs are within the frame it is seamless and could read subtitles without moving eyes outside the picture frame and subtitles become an integral part of the movie/picture. If subtitles are read only for short durations it is hard to understand this problem.

Blackbar-subtitles is a nightmare of the blackbar haters because subtitles appears on the black void which shouldn't be there as it is not part of the movie. Unfortunately Sony and WB do not understand this.

Wow how do you ever watch 1.78 AR movies that fill up the whole screen if you can't focus on black bar area and the picture?

That's what I thought, too.

Resizable, positionable, color-selectable, font-selectable subtitles: A film-watcher's dream come true.

Maybe in the next video format.

Scott

We already have it... it's called .mkv... :p

IIRC, wasn't BD originally advertised as supporting movable subtitles?
A Java feature?

syncguy's post covered this. Bitmap subtitles can't be repositioned (because they're part of the protected video path) and ASCII subtitles (which can be repositioned, resized and otherwise tinkered with) aren't used because some players don't support them properly. The format supports them on paper, but not consistently enough for distributors to actually implement them.

The argument is useless. Nothing can be done to prevent the studios from being stupid. People going 2.35:1 with their screens are pretty much guaranteeing themselves a massive headache.

Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is and it won't change unless someone like Spielberg goes all postal about it and what are the odds of that happening? Hmmm.... ZERO

Yes, it sucks, but it is what it si and it won't change unless someone like Spielberg goes all postal about it and what are the ods of that happening? Hmmm.... ZERO

Any Michael Bay movies with some subtitled dialogue? He goes postal at the drop of a hat. :)

So it's a copyright issue why they dont let us reposistion the subs?

It depends on the movie, i feel different ways about where I like my subs. I'm more of a fan of keeping it in the black bar area since I'm watching movies on a projector, and I like the image to be untouched and the black bars to have some use. But I can understand how it can be tiring sometimes to always read it so far below.

Anybody else prefer white subtitles as opposed to yellow?

What is it with yellow subs?

Yellow subs are fugly.

I think yellow subs help in black and white films, in which white subs may blend into the background.

Sony and Warner Please change your policy about subs,it should be on the picture frame especially in 2.35:1 such title as TDK.

Sony and Warner Please change your policy about subs,it should be on the picture frame especially in 2.35:1 such title as TDK.

Or, better yet, give both options. I think an ideal solution might be to offer 'in-letterbox' subs as the default stream when subtitles are selected from the language menu, but also provide a stream of 'in-picture' subs selectable from an 'advanced set-up' menu. This way, the techie nerds with CIH set-ups can easily find their option, but the less-informed general consumer doesn't have to be confused by being confronted with two options for subtitles in the language of their choice.

Then you have Man on Fire where the translation subs are all over the place. Good use of them, btw.

The preferable solution would be to allow us to move the subtitles anywhere around the picture, change their size, their font, and their color.

...something x264 Blu-ray encodes can already do. Once again the 'legitimate' media is behind the curve :P

Then you have Man on Fire where the translation subs are all over the place. Good use of them, btw.
my installment company told me to move up the picture but I think it's too complcated,I have no trouble about subs but my wife does.:)

I much prefer subtitles that are place near the character speaking. This standard "put them at the bottom of the screen" ******** needs to stop.

I forget what movie we watched the other night, but the subtitles were placed near the character speaking. When the person speaking was at right of screen, the subtitles were positioned near that person and vice versa for the other speaking actor.

That's so much better and it keeps your eyes on the action, instead of below it.

Subtitles in the black borders are awesome.

Otherwise useless frames now having a use? Yes please!

Please, DEAR GOD! Tell me you are not serious.

Subtitles in the black borders are awesome.

Otherwise useless frames now having a use? Yes please!

If you are trying to recreate the movie experience at home (isn't that the idea of Home Theater?) - the subtitles MUST be placed in the picture area. Back in the late 80's - when letter box was starting to become mainstream (via laserdisc) - I preferred the subs in the black bar. With the small TV's of the time (26-40") it made them easier to read. But that was 20 years ago. Now w/ HD and our super huge screens - subtitles in the black bar is like putting a screen door inside a submarine (pure nonsense:))

Phillips unveils 21:9 TV:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108190

The studios better get their act together regarding subtitles.

Phillips unveils 21:9 TV:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108190

The studios better get their act together regarding subtitles.

Yeah I'm sure that will become popular :rolleyes:

If you are trying to recreate the movie experience at home (isn't that the idea of Home Theater?) - the subtitles MUST be placed in the picture area. Back in the late 80's - when letter box was starting to become mainstream (via laserdisc) - I preferred the subs in the black bar. With the small TV's of the time (26-40") it made them easier to read. But that was 20 years ago. Now w/ HD and our super huge screens - subtitles in the black bar is like putting a screen door inside a submarine (pure nonsense)

1% of 1% of 1% of 1% have 2.35.1 projector home theater setups like a handful of people here on AVSforum. It's ridiculous to cater to them.

1% of 1% of 1% of 1% have 2.35.1 projector home theater setups like a handful of people here on AVSforum. It's ridiculous to cater to them.

Putting subtitles in the letterbox bar is a real problem for a percentage of viewers who are no longer able to watch those movies. Putting subtitles in the movie image is not a problem for anyone. Everyone will be able to watch the movie, and less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of viewers will be upset about it. And even those people will get over it after about 30 seconds.

So who is it more ridiculous to cater to?

I have the new Dances with wolves german disc,which looks superb.The subtitles when they appear are split- the first line is in the picture,the second line in the black area. I have a scope screen using the zoom method,which means zooming in a touch , not ideal.

It's more than just affecting CIH people, a lot of us also view the letter box bars as a void that are not part of the picture, so it's jarring when half of the subtitle all of a sudden appears to float in the darkness below the picture.

I have the new Dances with wolves german disc,which looks superb.The subtitles when they appear are split- the first line is in the picture,the second line in the black area. I have a scope screen using the zoom method,which means zooming in a touch , not ideal.

Are they forced subs with the English soundtrack? I love this movie but might have to bit my lip and wait.
Thanks

It's more than just affecting CIH people, a lot of us also view the letter box bars as a void that are not part of the picture, so it's jarring when half of the subtitle all of a sudden appears to float in the darkness below the picture.

Some (including myself) have done this "LINK" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1083120&highlight=") so as not to be distracted by the poor black level of the bars.
Unfortunately when masking the black bars you will no longer see subs, although actually its opened my eyes to how god awful they were in the first place.

SUBTITLES IN PICTURE

10,000 BC BD
Assembly (Hong Kong import) BD
Basic Instict BD
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD ***UK VERSION ONLY!!!
Body of Lies BD
Bourne Supremacy BD
Dark Water BD
Death Race BD
The Decent BD
Dejavu BD
Die Hard II BD
Die Hard with a Vengeance BD
Eight Below BD
End of Days HD-DVD
Fearless HD-DVD & BD
First Blood BD
Flightplan BD
Four Brothers BD
Heyy Babyy (Eros) BD
Hitman BD
The Incredible Hulk (2008) BD
Iron Man BD
Italian Job BD
Kill Bill Vol 1 BD ** 2 lines of dialog drop into lower bar, but it is not missed
Kill Bill Vol 2 BD
King Kong HD-DVD
The Kingdom DVD
Kung Fu Panda BD
La Vie en Rose BD (adjustable subtitles)
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen D-Theater
Live Free or Die Hard BD
Lives of Others BD
Miracle at St. Anna BD
Mission Impossible BD
Mission Impossible 2 BD
Mission Impossible 3 BD
Mummy BD
Mummy Returns BD
Mummy 3: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor BD
Om Shanti Om (Eros) BD
The Orphanage BD
Rambo (2008) BD
The Rock (UK Import) BD
Shooter BD
Sivaji
Speedracer BD
Spiderman 3 BD
Stargate BD
Star Wars: A New Hope DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi DVD
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace DVD
Sunshine BD
Transformers BD
U-571 BD
Volver BD
Wall E BD
War BD

SUBTITLES NOT IN PICTURE

30 Days Of Night BD
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD **UK VERSION IS CIH SAFE
CJ7 BD
Curse of the Golden Flower BD
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Day Watch BD
district b13 BD & DVD
Flash Point (HK Import) BD
Hancock BD - The subs are absolutely not important. It is a very short scene at the beginning.
The Hidden Fortress Criterion Collection DVD
House of Flying Daggers BD
Jean De Florette/Manon des Sources DVD
Jodhaa Akbar
Kung Fu Hustle BD
La Femme Nikita BD
Letters from Iwo Jima BD
Oceans 13 BD
OSS 117: Cairo, Nest of Spies (French import) BD
Patton BD
Pineapple Express BD
The Professionals BD
Revolver BD
Saawariya BD
Star Wars: A New Hope - original version DVD
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back - original version DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - original version DVD
Vantage Point BD
Warriors of Heaven BD
Youth Without Youth BD

List is growing :)

the subtitles should be at imaging area,not the lower black bar.For 2 reasons.1.It is more like true movie experience in the theater.2.people who used cinemascope screen 2.35:1 will get this benefit.Warner Bros.and Sony,Columbia please change your policy about this issue like Fox,Universal,Paramount/Dreamwork(they did since HDDVD).

Subtitles in the black borders are awesome.

Otherwise useless frames now having a use? Yes please!

I assume you aren't watching on a constant height setup.

For people who do the subtitles not being in the frame is a mess.

SUBTITLES IN PICTURE

10,000 BC BD
Assembly (Hong Kong import) BD
Basic Instict BD
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD ***UK VERSION ONLY!!!
Body of Lies BD
Bourne Supremacy BD
Dark Water BD
Death Race BD
The Decent BD
Dejavu BD
Die Hard II BD
Die Hard with a Vengeance BD
Eight Below BD
End of Days HD-DVD
Fearless HD-DVD & BD
First Blood BD
Flightplan BD
Four Brothers BD
Heyy Babyy (Eros) BD
Hitman BD
The Incredible Hulk (2008) BD
Iron Man BD
Italian Job BD
Kill Bill Vol 1 BD ** 2 lines of dialog drop into lower bar, but it is not missed
Kill Bill Vol 2 BD
King Kong HD-DVD
The Kingdom DVD
Kung Fu Panda BD
La Vie en Rose BD (adjustable subtitles)
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen D-Theater
Live Free or Die Hard BD
Lives of Others BD
Miracle at St. Anna BD
Mission Impossible BD
Mission Impossible 2 BD
Mission Impossible 3 BD
Mummy BD
Mummy Returns BD
Mummy 3: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor BD
Om Shanti Om (Eros) BD
The Orphanage BD
Rambo (2008) BD
The Rock (UK Import) BD
Shooter BD
Sivaji
Speedracer BD
Spiderman 3 BD
Stargate BD
Star Wars: A New Hope DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi DVD
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace DVD
Sunshine BD
Transformers BD
U-571 BD
Volver BD
Wall E BD
War BD

SUBTITLES NOT IN PICTURE

30 Days Of Night BD
Assembly UK VERSION BD **HK VERSION IS CIH SAFE
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD **UK VERSION IS CIH SAFE
CJ7 BD
Curse of the Golden Flower BD
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Day Watch BD
district b13 BD & DVD
Flash Point (HK Import) BD
Hancock BD - The subs are absolutely not important. It is a very short scene at the beginning.
The Hidden Fortress Criterion Collection DVD
House of Flying Daggers BD
Jean De Florette/Manon des Sources DVD
Jodhaa Akbar
Kung Fu Hustle BD
La Femme Nikita BD
Letters from Iwo Jima BD
Oceans 13 BD
OSS 117: Cairo, Nest of Spies (French import) BD
Patton BD
Pineapple Express BD
The Professionals BD
Redcliff (HK VERS) BD
Revolver BD
Saawariya BD
Star Wars: A New Hope - original version DVD
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back - original version DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - original version DVD
Vantage Point BD
Warriors of Heaven BD
Youth Without Youth BD

Red Cliff :(
I can put up with the watermark from time to time but no subs?!

SUBTITLES IN PICTURE



10,000 BC BD
Assembly (Hong Kong import) BD
Basic Instict BD
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD ***UK VERSION ONLY!!!
Body of Lies BD
Bourne Supremacy BD
Bourne Ultimatum BD
Bourne Identity BD
Dark Water BD
Death Race BD
The Decent BD
Dejavu BD
Die Another Day BD
Die Hard II BD
Die Hard with a Vengeance BD
Domino BD
Eight Below BD
End of Days HD-DVD
Fearless HD-DVD & BD
First Blood BD
Flightplan BD
Four Brothers BD
Heyy Babyy (Eros) BD
Hitman BD
Hunt for Red October BD
The Incredible Hulk (2008) BD
Iron Man BD
Italian Job BD
JCVD (UK import) BD
Kill Bill Vol 1 BD ** 2 lines of dialog drop into lower bar, but it is not missed
Kill Bill Vol 2 BD
King Kong HD-DVD
The Kingdom DVD
Kung Fu Panda BD
La Vie en Rose BD (adjustable subtitles)
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen D-Theater
Live Free or Die Hard BD
Lives of Others BD
Max Payne BD
Miracle at St. Anna BD
Mission Impossible BD
Mission Impossible 2 BD
Mission Impossible 3 BD
Mummy BD
Mummy Returns BD
Mummy 3: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor BD
Om Shanti Om (Eros) BD
The Orphanage BD
Rambo (2008) BD
The Rock (UK Import) BD
Shooter BD
Sivaji
Speedracer BD
Spiderman 3 BD
Stargate BD
Star Wars: A New Hope DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi DVD
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace DVD
Sunshine BD
Taegukgi (Korean import) BD
Transformers BD
U-571 BD
Volver BD
Wall E BD
War BD

SUBTITLES NOT IN PICTURE

30 Days Of Night BD
Assembly UK VERSION BD **HK VERSION IS CIH SAFE
Black Book (Zwartboek) BD **UK VERSION IS CIH SAFE
CJ7 BD
Curse of the Golden Flower BD
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Day Watch BD
district b13 BD & DVD
Flash Point (HK Import) BD
Hancock BD - The subs are absolutely not important. It is a very short scene at the beginning.
The Hidden Fortress Criterion Collection DVD
House of Flying Daggers BD
Jean De Florette/Manon des Sources DVD
Jodhaa Akbar
Kung Fu Hustle BD
La Femme Nikita BD
Letters from Iwo Jima BD
Oceans 13 BD
OSS 117: Cairo, Nest of Spies (French import) BD
Patton BD
Pineapple Express BD
The Professionals BD
Redcliff (HK VERS) BD
Revolver BD
Saawariya BD
Star Wars: A New Hope - original version DVD
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back - original version DVD
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - original version DVD
Vantage Point BD
Warriors of Heaven BD
Youth Without Youth BD


Updated.
Cih subtitle master thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102888)