...I can't decide, so I'd like some of your input.

I hear that the 10G's aren't going to show up until late late 2009. The 111FD is priced quite nicely right now so I'm really considering picking one up. If the jump in tech is going to be almost undiscernable then I'd probably just pick up the 111FD right now. Anyone have a decently based opinion?

In a nutshell: I'd happily wait for viewably superior technology. But if not, I'd love to have a nice TV now instead of waiting a year (or maybe more).

Wait until CES. Just a few more days now.

...I can't decide, so I'd like some of your input.

I hear that the 10G's aren't going to show up until late late 2009. The 111FD is priced quite nicely right now so I'm really considering picking one up. If the jump in tech is going to be almost undiscernable then I'd probably just pick up the 111FD right now. Anyone have a decently based opinion?

In a nutshell: I'd happily wait for viewably superior technology. But if not, I'd love to have a nice TV now instead of waiting a year (or maybe more).

I say get it now. This way you'll have it for almost a year before the new Pioneers are out and hard to believe any set coming out will be that much better and like you said there are some good deals to be had on that set right now. :)

I used to always wait wait wait with my purchases it got annoying. Just get something to enjoy now.

Get it now. You can be enjoying the fantastic PQ right away. The display is so good that there are few areas left to see an improvement at all, let alone anything drastic.

I would bet it will still be a top-of-class display (say top 5 percent of sets out there) in a few years, which is pretty unheard of in the CE industry.

Incremental improvements over the current 9Gs aside, new generations of plasmas will bring thinner panels galore. If that is something that you must have then maybe it is worth a wait. But I would tell anyone who waits 9 months to buy merely to shave an inch off their already plenty 'flat' panel that they are nuts.

Bottom line, if you are wanting a tv now, there is absolutely no reason to wait. The current elites are that good.

Get it now. You can be enjoying the fantastic PQ right away. The display is so good that there are few areas left to see an improvement at all, let alone anything drastic.

I would bet it will still be a top-of-class display (say top 5 percent of sets out there) in a few years, which is pretty unheard of in the CE industry.

Incremental improvements over the current 9Gs aside, new generations of plasmas will bring thinner panels galore. If that is something that you must have then maybe it is worth a wait. But I would tell anyone who waits 9 months to buy merely to shave an inch off their already plenty 'flat' panel that they are nuts.

Bottom line, if you are wanting a tv now, there is absolutely no reason to wait. The current elites are that good.

I concur 150% with the distinguished gentleman above.

It is extremely difficult for me to believe that the "improvements" in pic quality will warrant either the wait or the extra cost.

buy away. Let's jump together!

james

They can't get much better, just more efficient really with the added brightness.
I say buy now without a doubt.
Not to mention it will be almost a year until these hit.

I'm the only one who voted wait for the 10g! lol! Well, that's what I'm doing anyways!

Definately since CES is so close I would at least wait until then. You should hear something more about release dates and improvements then. I'm hoping the ECC will be out...that's what I'm wanting!

It will be at least a full year until those hit would be my guess.


OP...do you have a good display to hold you over until then? Or will you be suffering the whole time?

another +1 for waiting till CES only then see. there was no poll option for that :P

It will be at least a full year until those hit would be my guess.


OP...do you have a good display to hold you over until then? Or will you be suffering the whole time?

Suffering the whole time :(
Truth-be-told, I'm actually TV-less.

I HAD an XBR960 that died on me back in April.

So right now I just have my PS3 hooked up to my computer monitor, and it SUCKS!!!

Things to think about:

1. Wait until CES - Perhaps a competitor will offer a larger TV with comparable PQ for the same price (eg: 58 or 60 inches).
2. Global Recession - Some believe prices will drop and any supposed price increase won't last. (parts/labor to get cheaper).
3. If you're asking this question in the first place, then you have doubts. Consider how high those doubts are.

Personally, I think you should wait for the CES. Pioneer may surprise you with an earlier 10g release or something.

Edit: Hmm.. I see you're running off a monitor. I found a cheap 4280 to hold me back in my time of crisis and it's still doing great with the PS3/blu-ray.

Suffering the whole time :(
Truth-be-told, I'm actually TV-less.

I HAD an XBR960 that died on me back in April.

So right now I just have my PS3 hooked up to my computer monitor, and it SUCKS!!!

Then I see NO reason not to buy the amazing 111 if it is within your means.
Option B to me would be to buy a sammy or panny entry level 50", pocket the couple grand until 10g's or ECC's come out.
Believe it or not a Panny pz80u wont be aweful compared to your xbr860(I have a 34xbr960) and definitely good enough to enjoy while you wait.

Might even want to look at the new Vizio HQV VP505XVT for $1199 at Costco too.

WELL THE LAST TIME I BOUGHT A SET, MY PANNY 9UK, PIONEER DROPPED THE BOMB WITH THE KURO ANNOUNCEMENT. I LEARNED MY LESSON AND WILL WAIT TO SEE IF PIONEER WILL INDEED RELEASE THE EXTREME CONTRAST PLASMA OR IF 50"+ oled'S will be available sometime late 09, early 10. my 9uk is more than enough to hold me off for whatever tv i pursue. just want to make sure i get it right this time.

Wait until CES. Just a few more days now.

My only concern is that; Sure, we'll find out some ideas on pricing... but PQ is impossible to judge on the show floor, not to mention that whatever release date they set will probably be pushed back.

Personally, I don't even want to ponder what a 50+" OLED will cost in 18 months (if a consumer display of that size is even available at all).


I think people drastically over-estimate the availability of these units, especially considering that LED back-lit LCD's have barely come off the ground.

If I were betting, I would guess LED's will need another 2 model years at least before mere mortals can afford them.

My $.02
James

My only concern is that; Sure, we'll find out some ideas on pricing... but PQ is impossible to judge on the show floor, not to mention that whatever release date they set will probably be pushed back.

How true.

As others have said, firstly, I am just very uncertain how much further this tech can be pushed. Secondly, if and when it is, will those surely marginal gains in PQ warrant a likely significant jump in price in addition to an extended wait?

Nothing I've even heard rumored makes me inclined to believe they will.

Time will tell, I guess.

James

As others have said, firstly, I am just very uncertain how much further this tech can be pushed. Secondly, if and when it is, will those surely marginal gains in PQ warrant a likely significant jump in price in addition to an extended wait?

Nothing I've even heard rumored makes me inclined to believe they will.

Time will tell, I guess.

James

Very insightful

I guess the only reason I'm even considering waiting is the promise of those 'pure black' ECC Kuros.

Then again, the logical side of my brain tells me: If light measurement devices can't even give a reading on current Kuros, will my eyes be able to notice the difference between 9 and 10g models? Not to mention in an ideal viewing environment (non-pitch black room).

I would at least wait until we hear more about the 10g and see what they're all about. The 9G isn't going anywhere for a long time so there isn't any harm in waiting...unless you really can't wait a few more days.

I do think the pure black plasmas will be much better though. Last CES people saw the 10g prototype next to either an 8G or early 9G kuro and the pure blacks were immediately noticeable.

Wait. 9G production will end soon. 10G will be available next Summer.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2rnwqo6.png

CES is too close right now. Wait and see.

I'm waiting mainly for the increase in picture size. I purchased a 50" Sammy plasma about 3 years ago on the cheap with the intention to upgrade to a larger, high quality panel in the future. I told myself 70"+, but I just can't wait anymore, so 65" will have to do :D

Besides the advances in picture quality, regardless of how much those advances are from an already great current generation panel, the slimming down of the next gen panels is a very attractive upgrade to me. Not so much because of the depth reduction, but because of the drastic weight reduction. A 65" panel that weighs less than today's 50" PDP's sounds great to me!

Can't wait till CES!!!

Very insightful

I guess the only reason I'm even considering waiting is the promise of those 'pure black' ECC Kuros.

Then again, the logical side of my brain tells me: If light measurement devices can't even give a reading on current Kuros, will my eyes be able to notice the difference between 9 and 10g models? Not to mention in an ideal viewing environment (non-pitch black room).For me, ECC will make an enormous difference in a totally dark room where my 9G panel still has considerable glow on low APL scenes. It is amazing how sensitive my eyes are to changes in black level with low APL. I find the startup sequence shifts to be huge jumps even though as measurements go, they are very small.

Note that ECC was prototyped even before the 9G came out but it seems they have had some difficulty developing it according to the patent database. There is reference to something I call black noise caused by ECC technology. Essentially some pixels that are black do not turn on when needed for the next frame (essentially a misfire). They seeme to have some solutions for this though.

...I can't decide, so I'd like some of your input.

I hear that the 10G's aren't going to show up until late late 2009. The 111FD is priced quite nicely right now so I'm really considering picking one up. If the jump in tech is going to be almost undiscernable then I'd probably just pick up the 111FD right now. Anyone have a decently based opinion?

In a nutshell: I'd happily wait for viewably superior technology. But if not, I'd love to have a nice TV now instead of waiting a year (or maybe more).

Well I voted get now :) And it looks like so did the vast majority. No one is sure what will happen next year and IMO its a long wait! Many would agree with me that is why the AVS specials on the Elites are very popular right now in the classified section of the forum.

I always use proper bias lighting when viewing so my room would never be pitch black anyways.

Geez, looks like "get it now" is winning by 15:1 haha

Essentially some pixels that are black do not turn on when needed for the next frame (essentially a misfire). They seeme to have some solutions for this though.

Just curious, where did you get this information?

Just curious, where did you get this information?

You must not be familiar with Xrox. :)

Just curious, where did you get this information?Classified ;)

You must not be familiar with Xrox. :):)

Classified ;)

Figured that, seemed like some good inside information :)

You must not be familiar with Xrox. :)LOL, sorry about my dry posts :) There is more than a few guys here who like the science stuff so I continue.........

Figured that, seemed like some good inside information :)D-Nice is the man for that info. I just regurgitate Pioneer technical papers and patents. I have to ask D-Nice if it is actually in, or going to be in a product.

I voted "Get now" and also voted with my wallet. My 111-FD was delivered today :) My biggest reason for pulling the trigger now was the pricing and the Pinoneer made panels.

Classified ;)

Why not point others the source information? For example Extreme Contrast Driving method (http://www.google.com/patents?id=VvmkAAAAEBAJ&dq=to+provide+driving+improve+dark+contrast+inassignee:pione er&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2009&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2009&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2009&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2009) can be found on Google Patents in couple of minutes.

give me a break! you should obviously wait for CES 2009 before you make the purchase.

this is the most logical thing to do.

Why not point others the source information? For example Extreme Contrast Driving method can be found on Google Patents in couple of minutes.He was joking. That patent information has been posted several times and can be found.....

here - ECC explained (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972538&highlight=10+lumen+tech)

and if you actually want to read the patent applications describing the issues with ECC and weak reset they are....

here - patent 1 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Pioneer&s2=pdp&OS=Pioneer+AND+pdp&RS=Pioneer+AND+pdp)
and here - patent 2 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Pioneer&s2=pdp&OS=Pioneer+AND+pdp&RS=Pioneer+AND+pdp)

I would at least wait until we hear more about the 10g and see what they're all about. The 9G isn't going anywhere for a long time so there isn't any harm in waiting...unless you really can't wait a few more days.

I do think the pure black plasmas will be much better though. Last CES people saw the 10g prototype next to either an 8G or early 9G kuro and the pure blacks were immediately noticeable.

Only thing is, the 9g is so close to absolute black that I don't know how much of a visual difference that alone will make. Brighter and more efficient is very cool.
The 9g's look just like XBR CRT's blacks to my eyes.

....and he doesn't have a proper working tv right now, so why would anyone advise to wait a year to buy a tv? I know I couldn't go a month without a tv.
That's why I advised buying an entry level sammy or panny now if he decides to wait for ECC.

-jmo

Only thing is, the 9g is so close to absolute black that I don't know how much of a visual difference that alone will make. Brighter and more efficient is very cool.
The 9g's look just like XBR CRT's blacks to my eyes.

....and he doesn't have a proper working tv right now, so why would anyone advise to wait a year to buy a tv? I know I couldn't go a month without a tv.
That's why I advised buying an entry level sammy or panny now if he decides to wait for ECC.

-jmo

The same as XBR CRT blacks? You sure? That's quite high praise cause my XBR960 did an amazing job with black levels.

The same as XBR CRT blacks? You sure? That's quite high praise cause my XBR960 did an amazing job with black levels.

That fact, along with the drop-dead PQ of my trusty XBR910 have been THE reason I've been so tentative in upgrading. Every time I get KuroLust, I sit down and watch my gorgeous little 34" screen and wonder, is the Kuro REALLY that much better?

Right now, I think I'm going to wait to see what Pioneer has in store this week at CES, and if it's not the Holy Grail Plasma, I might finally bite the bullet and pick up a Kuro. I've got credit card points and I won the football pool at work, so I should spend that money on SOMETHING. :D

First: Wait to see what CES will bring

Keep in mind that probable improvement could be;
A 65" or 72" model
Thinner
Improved Blacks ....Hard to believe
Different Remote

All this will come at a higher price inspite of the bad economic environment we're currently in.
The fact that Panasonic will be producing the PDP shouldn't change much as I would think they'll be making them to Pioneers specs.

HOWEVER, there is the possibility that Pioneer may be exiting the PLASMA business down the line. Pioneer is going into the LCD business as we all know.
So if we do see a 10G it might be the last generation of Plasmas (HOPEFULLY NOT!!!!)

IMO the 111, 151, and 141 are GREAT models!!! and buying one is worth the money.
Lastly as mentioned. 10G will most likely not come out till end of 2009......THAT's ALONG TIME OFF.

I say go ahead and buy now.

The 10G's are a LONG Time away.

If it were only a matter of a 6-7 months, I would say wait.

But we are talking over a year. Thats tooo long.
and waiting for the new kuro's will only make the time go by slower.
I know this first hand. I was almost ready to buy an 8G Kuro but decided to wait for the 9G's. And man, what a long wait. It felt like the 9G's were never gonna be here. Thats when I created the "When do the 9G Kuros come out Thread??" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=991178&highlight=).
Remember that thread guys?? Man, seems like so long ago.lol :D

You might want to read up on the Panasonic Neo-pdps.
I don't think it will be that long until they come out from what I have heard.
But who knows.

Great advice, guys.

So I guess I have one (hopefully final) question for you 9G Elite owners: Are you satisfied with the black levels & contrast of your set enough to say that you don't 'need' them improved?

I know I know, improvements are always nice, but are you completely 100% satisfied with the black levels of your 9G Elite as it stands today?

I am totally satisfied with the blacks of my 9G.

With a small amount of light in the room (like a small lamp or two), the blacks look totally perfect to me.
No noticable luminace and the black bars blend right in with the bezel.

The best way i can explain it is to show you some pictures of how it looks to me at that time(With a small amount of light in the room).

Here are some pictures I took of my 151 and posted in the kuro pictures thread.

Kuro pictures thread Post#2412 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14708426&postcount=2412)

Kuro pictures thread Post#2414 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14708493&postcount=2414)


Now with the lights totally out, I can see the slightest Bit of luminance. But with content on the screen, it is hard to notice. But it is there.

So my answer is Yes. I am satisfied with the blacks of my 151.

But as you said, theres always room for improvement and having blacks that measure 0.0000 would be nice and I sure wouldn't turn down having measureable zero blacks.

But to be honest, If someone swapped my 151 with a 151 that had measured zero blacks (if that existed) without my knowledge, I am not sure I would even notice the change. Maybe with the lights all out I would, but I never watch like that anyway. It strains my eyes to much.

Good luck and Sandwiches!!:D

No current flat screen set (LCD or plasma) can match a good HD CRT for picture quality, especially in motion. If you are happy with your current TV and it suites your needs then wait to see what 2009 brings. With rumors of 0 luminescence panels and refined LED back-lights, the upcoming televisions may come closer to matching the PQ of your CRT.

Also, I would want to see what LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, and other well known manufacturers have to offer in the coming months. These brands have come out with some very nice sets and are constantly improving. You may be able to get similar or better picture quality out of a lower priced set than you can currently from the much more expensive sets available.

If none of the upcoming sets shows any considerable improvement, they will still push down 2008 TV prices somewhat, and you can get the same set for a lower price. So if you don't really need a new television at this time, then there is no downside to waiting a little longer to see what 2009 brings.

In conclusion:
CES is very close, patience is a virtue and buyer's remorse sucks!

In conclusion:
CES is very close, patience is a virtue and buyer's remorse sucks!

I agreed,
CES starts tomorrow. No reason not to wait a little bit and see what is coming before making any decision.

Knowing what we now know about Pioneer @ CES (no new models on display), what does everyone with the "Wait for CES" mentality think now?

Now you can comfortable buy your 9g.
10g will be here at the end of the year like many said. The only thing the no show at CES tells me is that 9g indeed will have a longer life cycle than previous Pioneers. I guess the earliest now to hear something will be in May.

Good time to buy if you have the cash.:D

Isn't the 10g supposed to be here by summer? That's what I read in some pioneer email in the 10g thread.

Isn't the 10g supposed to be here by summer? That's what I read in some pioneer email in the 10g thread.

Yes. Anyone claiming otherwise has been giving false information. The big question is that what 10G actually is.

Isn't the 10g supposed to be here by summer? That's what I read in some pioneer email in the 10g thread.

I actually heard here both that will be by summer and other folks saying by year's end.
Because of the no show at CES, I would think end of the year is more likely. But who knows?

I actually heard here both that will be by summer and other folks saying by year's end.
Because of the no show at CES, I would think end of the year is more likely. But who knows?

Maybe it's just the elites that come out at the end of the year.

psychotK, 2 questions.

1. How far back from your display is your seating ? Using a tape measure would be best .

2. What is your current display size & model.

There still is a chance that Pioneer will still unveil the 10G as CES is not over yet. Although this may be slim.

Personally, I'm still waiting for the 10G. If I can get ECC blacks I won't have a reason to upgrade for a long, long time. No point in me spending my money now. I can wait until the summer or the end of the year whichever it may be.

psychotK, 2 questions.

1. How far back from your display is your seating ? Using a tape measure would be best .

2. What is your current display size & model.

Hey James!

1) I sit between 7-8 feet away. It's adjustable though.
2) Current display is a professionally calibrated 34" Sony XBR960 HD-CRT

Personally, I'm still waiting for the 10G. If I can get ECC blacks I won't have a reason to upgrade for a long, long time. No point in me spending my money now. I can wait until the summer or the end of the year whichever it may be.

Is there still a chance that we'll see ECC with the 10Gs? I was under the impression that it was still a generation or two off, at least.

Hey James!

1) I sit between 7-8 feet away. It's adjustable though.
2) Current display is a professionally calibrated 34" Sony XBR960 HD-CRT

Ok then , check out this chart... a 50" at that distance is about
the smallest id go.

If I was 8' back id say 50" would be the very smallest id go, to
really see the benefits of 1080p go as big as you can.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2006/12/resolution_chart.jpg

Hey James!

1) I sit between 7-8 feet away. It's adjustable though.
2) Current display is a professionally calibrated 34" Sony XBR960 HD-CRT

According to THX & Sempte Standards, you're perfect for a 60" display. Imagine the Home Theater experience. I know that coming from a small Tube to a 60"er will seem a huge jump at first, but I guarantee that after a few weeks of the display in your home you'll think differently. After being on the Forum for over 6 years, I've yet to read of anyone complaining that they bought too big a display. In fact, just the opposite.

According to THX & Sempte Standards, you're perfect for a 60" display. Imagine the Home Theater experience. I know that coming from a small Tube to a 60"er will seem a huge jump at first, but I guarantee that after a few weeks of the display in your home you'll think differently. After being on the Forum for over 6 years, I've yet to read of anyone complaining that they bought too big a display. In fact, just the opposite.That's for sure. My wife, when we bought the 50" Panasonic in 2005, thought that it was huge, ubelievably so. Fast forward one year later and there she is, talking to her parents "You get used to it, now I wouldn't mind something bigger". :D

And I think I'll wait for 10G, still not sure about it. It would be nice to at least have specs for it, even if they will come out in the Fall. Any idea of when specs could start circulating? If not at CES, when?

That's for sure. My wife, when we bought the 50" Panasonic in 2005, thought that it was huge, ubelievably so. Fast forward one year later and there she is, talking to her parents "You get used to it, now I wouldn't mind something bigger". :D

And I think I'll wait for 10G, still not sure about it. It would be nice to at least have specs for it, even if they will come out in the Fall. Any idea of when specs could start circulating? If not at CES, when?

My advice ist to get a good deal on the Pioneer Elite 151 and be done with it for the next 5-6 years.

According to THX & Sempte Standards, you're perfect for a 60" display. Imagine the Home Theater experience. I know that coming from a small Tube to a 60"er will seem a huge jump at first, but I guarantee that after a few weeks of the display in your home you'll think differently. After being on the Forum for over 6 years, I've yet to read of anyone complaining that they bought too big a display. In fact, just the opposite.

Greetings forum members,

Not to be a wet blanket, but there is one minor concern to which I think psychot|K and others should attend when choosing a Kuro, especially if going w/a 9G. The 151s are reputed to buzz substantially more than the 111s. I don't know why this is and I certainly cannot confirm or disconfirm it, as I own neither set, but from all the reports I've read this does appear to be one small consideration in favor of the 50" set (assuming one's viewing distance is compatible wit that size, of course). This might also militate in favor of waiting for the 10Gs in hopes that the buzzing problem will be addressed. I wouldn't count on that, though, as many people were hoping the 8G buzzing problem would be fixed in the 9Gs and that does not seem to have happened.

I will be waiting for the 10Gs myself, but not because of the buzzing issue. I think, psychot|K, rationally the decision whether or not to buy now comes down to whether or not you can bear to wait and make do with what you already have. The longer you wait, the more your money will get you; no one disputes that. But it also is true that the longer you wait, the more time you'll spend with your old picture instead of the new and better one that is available today; no one disputes that, either.

So I'd say it comes down to this: how comfortable are you with the set you already have? Would you be happy watching it for another year or so, or are you anxious to replace it?

Yours,

David

My advice ist to get a good deal on the Pioneer Elite 151 and be done with it for the next 5-6 years.

Yes, get the 151.
You will be gaurenteed to become a couch potatoe and miss work just to spend time with your new display.
Just be aware that owning one for a little while will change the way you view forever.
I can't even go to the movies anymore without wishing I was sitting at home watching it on my 151.
Better picture and you don't have to pay a fortune to have access to your goobers.

Ok then , check out this chart... a 50" at that distance is about
the smallest id go.

If I was 8' back id say 50" would be the very smallest id go, to
really see the benefits of 1080p go as big as you can.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2006/12/resolution_chart.jpg

According to THX & Sempte Standards, you're perfect for a 60" display. Imagine the Home Theater experience. I know that coming from a small Tube to a 60"er will seem a huge jump at first, but I guarantee that after a few weeks of the display in your home you'll think differently. After being on the Forum for over 6 years, I've yet to read of anyone complaining that they bought too big a display. In fact, just the opposite.

Hey guys,
I remember seeing those charts somewhere! I think that's how I came to the decision of the 50". I agree that, for a good cinema experience, you want the senses (vision in this case) to be somewhat overwhelmed, and I also agree that the 60" would be the better option. But it really comes down to money. I'm just not sure, in this economic climate, I can afford the extra money (and it is quite a bit more) for the 151. I'd sure as hell like one though! :)

Greetings forum members,

Not to be a wet blanket, but there is one minor concern to which I think psychot|K and others should attend when choosing a Kuro, especially if going w/a 9G. The 151s are reputed to buzz substantially more than the 111s. I don't know why this is and I certainly cannot confirm or disconfirm it, as I own neither set, but from all the reports I've read this does appear to be one small consideration in favor of the 50" set (assuming one's viewing distance is compatible wit that size, of course). This might also militate in favor of waiting for the 10Gs in hopes that the buzzing problem will be addressed. I wouldn't count on that, though, as many people were hoping the 8G buzzing problem would be fixed in the 9Gs and that does not seem to have happened.

I will be waiting for the 10Gs myself, but not because of the buzzing issue. I think, psychot|K, rationally the decision whether or not to buy now comes down to whether or not you can bear to wait and make do with what you already have. The longer you wait, the more your money will get you; no one disputes that. But it also is true that the longer you wait, the more time you'll spend with your old picture instead of the new and better one that is available today; no one disputes that, either.

So I'd say it comes down to this: how comfortable are you with the set you already have? Would you be happy watching it for another year or so, or are you anxious to replace it?

Yours,

David

David,
The buzzing issue freaks me out, I'll be honest. If I do decide on a 9G Elite, I'm going to have to insist on either being able to take it out of the box in the store and actually demo the unit I'm taking home (for buzzing, streaks, clouding etc), or insist on a 30 day replacement proviso.

Another issue is... well... I don't actually have a TV heheh. I HAD a 34" profesionally calibrated Sony XBR960 HD-CRT. But it died on me back in April. Since then I've just had my PS3 hooked up to my computer monitor... which SUCKS. I managed without a TV up till now, but it's getting to the point that I'd really like one. But, like you said, $4000 or so is quite a bit of cash and the decision to wait and get more bang-for-your-buck is certainly more important on a big purchase like this.

My advice ist to get a good deal on the Pioneer Elite 151 and be done with it for the next 5-6 years.

You figure the PQ of the 9G Elites are so good that even in 4-5 years I'll still be satisfied even though ECC panels will probably be out? (or who knows, something even better!)

The buzzing issue freaks me out, I'll be honest. If I do decide on a 9G Elite, I'm going to have to insist on either being able to take it out of the box in the store and actually demo the unit I'm taking home (for buzzing, streaks, clouding etc), or insist on a 30 day replacement proviso.

Another issue is... well... I don't actually have a TV heheh. I HAD a 34" profesionally calibrated Sony XBR960 HD-CRT. But it died on me back in April. Since then I've just had my PS3 hooked up to my computer monitor... which SUCKS. I managed without a TV up till now, but it's getting to the point that I'd really like one. But, like you said, $4000 or so is quite a bit of cash and the decision to wait and get more bang-for-your-buck is certainly more important on a big purchase like this.

Hi psychot|K,

Please allow me to clarify something I left ambiguous in my previous post: the 151s are NOT reputed to buzz all that badly. Different people exhibit different levels of sensitivity to it and there is apparent variance among sets (within the 151 model, I mean), so you shouldn't let that one quibble freak you out too much. The difference between the 151 and the 111 is that a statistically significant minority of 151 owners have complained of mild buzzing and a few of them even had to replace their sets, while I've not heard tell of this with the 111s.

The 151 is an enormously popular set and I don't know of any owners who regret their purchase (which says a lot). That said, I do agree that checking it out for buzzing before getting stuck with one is a good idea (be it a 151 or a 111). I think some of our better-known Kuro-certified forum sponsors will QC check the set before shipping it if asked. Notably, they also give first-rate customer service and, at times, better-than-retail prices. I don't know if you've looked into the forum sponsors, but several of them really are fantastic. My next tv will be through one of them, guaranteed.

Being without any tv is pretty rough. Given your circumstances, perhaps a 111 or 151 would be just the ticket--they really are the best sets in the world. I mean, just extraordinary. When I finally got to see one in action I did start casting sidelong glances at my bank balance. The economic climate is not a happy one, sure, but if you actually have the money (I definitely think it would be a huge mistake to go into debt at this time for any sort of discretionary spending!!), you might be able to turn this to your advantage. Retailers are desperate for business these days. That gives you some bargaining power, right? Another variable we shouldn't discount is that when economic times get harder, prices on top-of-the-line luxury goods tend to go up, not down, as there are fewer buyers around.

Personally, I'm committed to waiting just because the 5 lumen tech that's coming out right now looks sooo sexy, but I have that luxury--I already have a 40" Samsung 81F as my computer monitor/movie screen. If I had to watch Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica on a regular computer monitor I think I'd go nuts. $4,000 is indeed a lot to spend on a new tv, but the PQ on the 9Gs is so impressive, you probably won't feel any need to replace one for many years. I daresay cajieboy is right on the money with that.

Best of luck,

David

Hey everyone,
I just came back from the Elite dealer and demo'd a 111. No words to describe it really, and that was uncalibrated!
I know price talk is illegal here, but I need some opinions on what I was quoted. If you have any knowledge about the 111 pricing structure, please PM me ASAP!

Thanks!