Check it out

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Pushes-Pro-Features-for-Flagship-HD-Camcorders-in-09---HF-S100-HF-S10-HF20-and-HF200-35816.htm#

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Returns-with-Another-HDV-Camcorder-the-HV40-35813.htm#

Hi,

I saw these on Canon's site. They are all flash based, and I am not very happy with the flagship HF-S10 only having a 10x optical zoom. However, the sensor size is 1/2.6.

We'll see -

Pam

Hi,

I saw these on Canon's site. They are all flash based, and I am not very happy with the flagship HF-S10 only having a 10x optical zoom. However, the sensor size is 1/2.6.

We'll see -

Pam


The HV40 is tape based.

Damn! These look very interesting.

The HF S10, and HF S100 look like they they'll be packing some heat when they are released.

Ken, ready to take the plunge for us?:D

Hi,

I saw these on Canon's site. They are all flash based, and I am not very happy with the flagship HF-S10 only having a 10x optical zoom. However, the sensor size is 1/2.6.

We'll see -

Pam


Pam,

Welcome to AVS!

Yes, it is interesting that the HF S10 is listed with a 10x optical zoom.

Many of us who have been staying on the cutting edge of HD consumer cams, will be looking to see how it performs picture quality wise.

Money, money, money...........

The HF200 is obviously the succesor to the immensely popular HF100. I was going to get the HF100, then the HG20, but decided to wait, I"'m glad I did. At first the HF200 sounds like the camera to get, but the HF S100 just sounds awesome. Will probably be my next camera.

The HV40 is a surprise. I was not expecting another tape based camera. The 24P "native" , however, will atract would be Spielbergs.

great, another '100' camcorder. Now everyone has identical sounding products

The HF200 is obviously the succesor to the immensely popular HF100. I was going to get the HF100, then the HG20, but decided to wait, I"'m glad I did. At first the HF200 sounds like the camera to get, but the HF S100 just sounds awesome. Will probably be my next camera.

The waiting game never pays off. The HF200 is going to be at least $500 MORE than what the HG20 is going for, no matter how good it is, its not going to be $500 BETTER.

The HV40 is tape based.

Yes, it is, but I wasn't even considering that camera anymore than I considered the new SD camera's on Canon's site.;)

Also, the "flagship" model the HF-S10 has a 58mm lens which is sweet, but why only a 10x zoom?

Pam,

Welcome to AVS!

Yes, it is interesting that the HF S10 is listed with a 10x optical zoom.

Many of us who have been staying on the cutting edge of HD consumer cams, will be looking to see how it performs picture quality wise.

Money, money, money...........

Thanks BLASST:D

The waiting game never pays off. The HF200 is going to be at least $500 MORE than what the HG20 is going for, no matter how good it is, its not going to be $500 BETTER.

Chances are that 1 or 2 months after it's released it's going to be simmilar in price to those mentioned cameras, especially on Amazon.

Chances are that 1 or 2 months after it's released it's going to be simmilar in price to those mentioned cameras, especially on Amazon.

Sorry but i have to disagree. It took several MONTHS, not 2 months for the HG20, HG21 and the HF11 to get to where they are now. All 3 listed above had MSRP of around $899-$1199 and sold for near MSRP for a while.
Even now the HF11 is still at around $800ish at Amazon (depending on week) and at or above $850 at major stores.
The "New" Cameras will not even be available for sale until a couple of months AFTER CES which is in Feb, and will be sold for atleast 2-3 months at MSRP or JUST below MSRP.
You are now looking at 4-5 months from now. People will then pay $900-$1100 for them 4-5 months from now only for them to be sold at $550-$600 in late 2009 the whole cycle starts all over again.
MY point is that the HG20 is now and has been for 4-6 weeks sold for $550 SHIPPED. Thats $450-$550 cheaper than any of the "new" cameras.
No matter how you look at it, the new cameras will not have features or picture quality that is $450-$550 MORE than the Hg20.

The HV40 is a surprise. I was not expecting another tape based camera. The 24P "native" , however, will atract would be Spielbergs.

You really think they're going to kill a money-maker? The HV series cam has top points in camcorderinfo.com. It's used as a B roll cam in pro shoots and has a top quality picture.... and it's cheap.

I would expect an HV50 before they're ready to kill that series.

You have to remember that this is the AVS forum where people come to discuss the latest in technology.... tape cams are almost a non issue here. But if you go to any of the real editing sites (vegas, FCP, Avid...etc) avchd cams are by far the minority. It's tape... HDV... xdcam... betacam... etc...

The day is coming for tape that's for sure... but it won't be anywhere near today or tomorrow.

Damn! These look very interesting.

The HF S10, and HF S100 look like they they'll be packing some heat when they are released.

Ken, ready to take the plunge for us?:D

Blasst, I don't think on this one. It doesn't look like any of these new cams have a viewfinder! What are they thinking???? At least throw it on the high end unit. Additionally, I wouldn't be happy with half of the zoom range I've got now.

thanks for the link slimoli!

it's clear that avchd camcorders are the future for canon... multiple models, with some significant upgrades from todays camcorders:
"The HF200 is identical in most regards, but records only to memory card. Both camcorders include a 3.89-megapixel, 1/4-inch CMOS, and have a 15x optical zoom."
"Canon's flagship models for 2009 are the HF S10, with 32GB of internal flash, and the HF S10. ...The lens is large – 58mm, which is the same size as the lens on the professional GL2 camcorder. This larger size allows for 900 horizontal TV lines, according to Canon."

even more resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21?? that's big news!!

Also, the "flagship" model the HF-S10 has a 58mm lens which is sweet, but why only a 10x zoom?

1)cost... 900 lines of resolution @58mm is pricey glass.
2)elbow room for future upgrading

canon is notorious for making small changes, then using it as an excuse for calling the camera a new model.

I guess the HF-S11 will be due out mid year than:D

The HV40 is a surprise. I was not expecting another tape based camera. The 24P "native" , however, will atract would be Spielbergs.

I think people who think tape is dead are kidding themselves. Manufacturers keep renewing their lines (even on the semi-pro and pro lines) with new tape-based camcorders.

Some of the most expensive professional, network cameras are tape-based. Tape is not going anywhere for a while yet.

The lens is large – 58mm, which is the same size as the lens on the professional GL2 camcorder. This larger size allows for 900 horizontal TV lines, according to Canon."

even more resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21?? that's big news!!

Well, let's see how they actually test out. Canon claimed 800 lines for the A1 and it measured out at only 650 or thereabouts. So be suspicious of manufacturer's claims.

With that said however, I'd expect a measured resolution that will be higher than the current models, just not as high as Canon claims. The irony is that it might have a higher measured resolution than their prosumer cams costing several times the amount! That wouldn't be the first time either.

But as most of us know, resolution isn't the entire picture story, it's just one of many elements. I seriously doubt that any of these new cams will look as good as a Sony FX1000/Z5/Canon A1/Canon A1S with a lower measured resolution! ;)

i agree, it won't measure out to anywhere near 900 lines, no camera manufacturer ever meets the resolution hype that they generate.

see the camcorderinfo tests on the hdv xl h1... it's a $6500 camcorder with far lower resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21 currently has... hdv is alive only to support the existing infrastructure, it's a dead format that doesn't have enough picture quality to support the native 1440x1080 sensors of the xl h1.

look at the feature list of these new camcorders, ken, you know that you want one :-)

"The HF S10 and HF S100 are both equipped with a 8.59-megapixel, 1/2.6-inch CMOS, larger than anything on previous Canon camcorders ...There are several manual controls and options new to Canon, as well. The Focus Assist feature has been expanded to include peaking, which creates a colored fuzz on the areas of focus in either red, yellow, or blue. Zebra patterns are available at either 70 or 100 IRE. Canon is the first to steal thunder from Panasonic by including manual gain control, with options for 0dB, 6dB, 12dB, and 18dB. SPMTE color bars and a 1kHz reference tone are available for calibration. ...The Pre-Record function uses cache memory to record 3 seconds of video prior to your hitting the record button."

compared to that, nobody who is serious about picture quality will buy the hv40.

I think people who think tape is dead are kidding themselves. Manufacturers keep renewing their lines (even on the semi-pro and pro lines) with new tape-based camcorders.

Some of the most expensive professional, network cameras are tape-based. Tape is not going anywhere for a while yet.

I use a tape based camera, HV20, and love it. I was surprised because this is a consumer camcorder and it looks like Canon is the only brand now with a tape based camera targeted to non-pros.

The camera I am looking for, however, doesn't exist yet. I need:

-Good zoom with wide-angle (equivalent to 35mm) of 28 or wider.

-Low light performace like my old Sony TRV900.
-Full manual control.
-XLR audio
-Priced below 1500 bucks.
-Light and compact.

look at the feature list of these new camcorders, ken, you know that you want one :-)



Some of the features, bigger lens & sensor are certainly nice, but without a viewfinder it's really a no-go for me. I'd also really miss the 20X zoom. 10X is so passe...I haven't seen that low a power in some time.

But I'll tell you, if you saw the picture quality of the prosumer FX1000/Z5/Canon A1S, you'd see that HDV can still surpass AVCHD in picture quality. Again this shows that resolution is only one of many ingredients to a great picture.

I use a tape based camera, HV20, and love it. I was surprised because this is a consumer camcorder and it looks like Canon is the only brand now with a tape based camera targeted to non-pros.

The camera I am looking for, however, doesn't exist yet. I need:

-Good zoom with wide-angle (equivalent to 35mm) of 28 or wider.

-Low light performace like my old Sony TRV900.
-Full manual control.
-XLR audio
-Priced below 1500 bucks.
-Light and compact.

Slimoli, I still have the TRV900! I can tell you by today's standard it sure isn't light...it probably weighs twice what most consumer cams weigh today. As you know it also had no XLR audio and limited manual control.

So, does this work like the stock market; will the announcements influence the start of a lowering trend on the current crop of Canon camcorders or does the new cameras have to be physically for sale to influence prices in a major way?

the trv900 was a classic! the HF S10 and HF S100 will be the closest thing to it that you'll see for now, at least until sony comes out with their 24Mbps avchd cameras.

the 10x zoom is probably going to be a deal killer for me also, i really need big zoom for the race cars.

Slimoli, I still have the TRV900! I can tell you by today's standard it sure isn't light...it probably weighs twice what most consumer cams weigh today. As you know it also had no XLR audio and limited manual control.

I only mentioned the TRV900 for its low light performance, as an example, not a "light" camera for sure.

The HF200 is obviously the succesor to the immensely popular HF100. I was going to get the HF100, then the HG20, but decided to wait, I"'m glad I did. At first the HF200 sounds like the camera to get, but the HF S100 just sounds awesome. Will probably be my next camera.

But the HF200 repeats the typical trend of successor models have smaller sensor and larger zoom range. So even though it has 24Mbps, its low light performance may be worse than HF100.

Also, the "flagship" model the HF-S10 has a 58mm lens which is sweet, but why only a 10x zoom?

The zoom range is related to the sensor size. The larger the sensor, the larger the lens would be required to achieve the same zoom range. That's why with the HF200's smaller sensor (compared with HF100), they can fit a 15x zoom.

Go glass! I like the new lens on the HF-S. I wonder if a nice telephoto lens could compensate for the megar 10x zoom.

So, does this work like the stock market; will the announcements influence the start of a lowering trend on the current crop of Canon camcorders or does the new cameras have to be physically for sale to influence prices in a major way?

They've already dropped quite a bit in just the last 2 months alone. I've been checking prices 5 days a week, so it's been pretty obvious. I'm hoping prices will drop even more on their "old" lineup now that the new models have been announced.

What I don't understand is the lack of a viewfinder on any of the new models aside from the HV40.

But the HF200 repeats the typical trend of successor models have smaller sensor and larger zoom range. So even though it has 24Mbps, its low light performance may be worse than HF100.

i believe that the hf11/hg20/hg21 has a smaller sensor than hv30, but canon gave the newer camcorders a much better low light rating, despite having smaller sensors... also:

"All four include the latest generation DIGIC DVIII processor, which adds two new features: face detection for up to a purported 35 faces and an improved auto exposure system. Canon reports that the new processor also allows for better dynamic range."

They've already dropped quite a bit in just the last 2 months alone. I've been checking prices 5 days a week, so it's been pretty obvious. I'm hoping prices will drop even more on their "old" lineup now that the new models have been announced.

What I don't understand is the lack of a viewfinder on any of the new models aside from the HV40.

The HG20 dropped a lot from when initially released... the HG21 now is getting near $750.. but the HF11 is not really falling yet.

Someone in another thread reported the HF11 went from $849 to $794 at ecost, but now they are displaying $924.99 as the price. So, the HF11 is a stubborn one.

These lines are great for people that held off on buying a HG, HF, or HV from 2007-Present.

But, for those of use who own one of those models the upgrades are not going to be worth the purchase.

I have a D90 and love the thing. I use it more than my HF11. But no DSLR will every replace a camcorder bottom line.

For HF11 owners I wouldnt take this news as a slap in the face. I see as it a step in the right direction. They are improving and only will get better. Although Face detection isnt important to me (im not shooting portraits and the auto exposure improvement isnt a big deal because I shoot in Manual all the time anyway...

I think an HF11 is good for another 3-4 years before you will "need" to upgrade. HF10/100 2-3 years. HV20/20 2 years. HG 20/30 2-3 years.

Until they slap a Monster Sized CMOS sensor in these cameras low light shots will suffer. But bigger sensor means worse rolling shutter....who knows...

These improvements seem good, but nothing crazy to sell your cam and pony up.

If in the market. Check out the HF11 or the other 24Mbps Canon's out there before spending premium on a this new line....

What I don't understand is the lack of a viewfinder on any of the new models aside from the HV40.

Actually, both the HF S10 and HF S100 have viewfinders. From the photo, looks like they added a rotary dial in front for focusing etc, but they still does not seem to have 5.1 sound.

Actually, both the HF S10 and HF S100 have viewfinders. From the photo, looks like they added a rotary dial in front for focusing etc, but they still does not seem to have 5.1 sound.

Not according to the specs listed on the CanonUSA website. I'd certainly be happy if they did have viewfinders, although they will probably be priced outside of my paltry needs.

Actually, both the HF S10 and HF S100 have viewfinders. From the photo, looks like they added a rotary dial in front for focusing etc, but they still does not seem to have 5.1 sound.

Nope, no viewfinders...zippo. Go to the Canon site and you'll see they clearly say "none" under viewfinders. Big mistake IMO.

Not according to the specs listed on the CanonUSA website. I'd certainly be happy if they did have viewfinders, although they will probably be priced outside of my paltry needs.

You are correct. I saw from the photos a round protrusion which I presumed to be the viewfinder; and a rear photo showed that it was just a mode dial :(

i agree, it won't measure out to anywhere near 900 lines, no camera manufacturer ever meets the resolution hype that they generate.

see the camcorderinfo tests on the hdv xl h1... it's a $6500 camcorder with far lower resolution than the hf11/hg20/hg21 currently has... hdv is alive only to support the existing infrastructure, it's a dead format that doesn't have enough picture quality to support the native 1440x1080 sensors of the xl h1.

look at the feature list of these new camcorders, ken, you know that you want one :-)

"The HF S10 and HF S100 are both equipped with a 8.59-megapixel, 1/2.6-inch CMOS, larger than anything on previous Canon camcorders ...There are several manual controls and options new to Canon, as well. The Focus Assist feature has been expanded to include peaking, which creates a colored fuzz on the areas of focus in either red, yellow, or blue. Zebra patterns are available at either 70 or 100 IRE. Canon is the first to steal thunder from Panasonic by including manual gain control, with options for 0dB, 6dB, 12dB, and 18dB. SPMTE color bars and a 1kHz reference tone are available for calibration. ...The Pre-Record function uses cache memory to record 3 seconds of video prior to your hitting the record button."

compared to that, nobody who is serious about picture quality will buy the hv40.

Yeah, I just lost interest in the HV30/40 - now I'm pining for an HF S100! Of course it'll probably be $1000+

Just some of the differences between HF100 and HF200

HF200
15x zoom
MXP recording Mode(24 Mbps) 2 hours 55 minutes (32GB)
Video: Approx. 2.99 Megapixels
Face Priority AF
1/4-inch CMOS, RGB Prmary Color Filter
Approx. 3.89 Megapixels
Minimum illumination: 0.4 lx (Night mode)
Max. F/Stop f/1.8-3.2
12.0 oz.
Slightly smaller also.
No retail price posted yet.

We should start to see the HF100 prices coming down with the new model release.

hmmm... so this may be a tough call for someone who hasn't purchased yet.

Word has it on DVinfo.net that the release price for the HF S100, (the same as the HF S10 without the internal storage), will be $1200.

The HF11's release price was the same and here we are almost 4 months after it's September release and it can be purchased near $800. If these new cams were to follow the same pattern and, let's say, they were released mid-March, then about July the HF S100 would be in the $800 range.

This probably wouldn't be a big deal under usual circumstances with newer camcorders, but these (two) camcorder(s) are clearly a much bigger leap than the HF10 to HF11 was. If someone wants a camcorder soon, it might be tough to wait it out that long, though.

Then again, dropping $1000+ is not a big deal for some people and won't have to wait for it to come down/can get it sooner than the Summer.

Here is the Canon Press Release 'LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., January 5, 2009': http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20090105_camcorders.html

And their camcorder page which appears to show the new camcorders in the entire lineup: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=173



Rich

I am looking to buy HV30. The price seems pretty much settled at around $530. Items at Ebay are much pricy....

I have been waiting for this camcorder for a month..After I missed 40% Live.com+Ebay cashback deal, I can not buy anything at all.
So I have waited and waited.

Is it a time to buy a HV30?

Can the price drop more?

:eek::eek:

i believe that the hf11/hg20/hg21 has a smaller sensor than hv30, but canon gave the newer camcorders a much better low light rating, despite having smaller sensors... also:

"All four include the latest generation DIGIC DVIII processor, which adds two new features: face detection for up to a purported 35 faces and an improved auto exposure system. Canon reports that the new processor also allows for better dynamic range."
The image sensor is listed at 1/1.26 inches. That's more than 3/4", or about 20 mm, if I am calculating correctly. If I'm right, that's bigger than a lot of pro level cameras.

did anyone see a viewfinder in any of those pictures?

did anyone see a viewfinder in any of those pictures?
It says "NO VIEWFINDER" on the Canon website.

The image sensor is listed at 1/1.26 inches. That's more than 3/4", or about 20 mm, if I am calculating correctly. If I'm right, that's bigger than a lot of pro level cameras.

Larger Sensor = Larger Rolling Shutter???

I know its the case with my D90 and its HUGE CMOS Sensor....

Anyway I LOVE my HF11 and glad to see Canon tis improving so soon....now dont upgrade too quick it just ticks ppl off when they spend so much time reviewing and researching camera models and then a month later they improve it ten-fold.....tis the times..


btw: 1k post WOO-HOO!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The image sensor is listed at 1/1.26 inches. That's more than 3/4", or about 20 mm, if I am calculating correctly. If I'm right, that's bigger than a lot of pro level cameras.

Canon's site says image sensor size 1/2.6". ;)

Still no dual SDHC slots anywhere:(

Still no dual SDHC slots anywhere:(

Is there a specific situation where you would need two slots? Couldn't you just use twice the amount of memory in one slot; like a 32gig card instead of a 16gig?

Canon's site says image sensor size 1/2.6". ;)
Whats the correct way to read that? "one half .6 inches"? ".56 inches "?

Whats the correct way to read that? "one half .6 inches"? ".56 inches "?

This is read 1 divided by 2.6 which equals .3846 inches. :D

So I have placed a HF100 in my amazon cart for $529.00 for the past 5 days and don't want to pull the trigger. Our little one is turning one next month. I was hoping to have a HD cam before that. But the HF S100 seem pretty tempting. Will I see a big difference between the two for home movies! I am upgrading from a lowly Sony DCR-TRV17 MiniDV.

Is there a specific situation where you would need two slots? Couldn't you just use twice the amount of memory in one slot; like a 32gig card instead of a 16gig?

The more flash memory the better. 32GBx2:D I would use it all. Anything could happen. Would not want to miss anything. Granted I would not keep everything that I shot. Alot of wading through, fast forward editing. I just want to deal with switching in fresh batteries, & I don't want to deal with that.

So I have placed a HF100 in my amazon cart for $529.00 for the past 5 days and don't want to pull the trigger. Our little one is turning one next month. I was hoping to have a HD cam before that. But the HF S100 seem pretty tempting. Will I see a big difference between the two for home movies! I am upgrading from a lowly Sony DCR-TRV17 MiniDV.

Get the HF100 now & the HF S100 later.

I was about to buy the HF-11, but the HF S10/100 has exactly the improvements I was looking for including bigger/better sensor, better glass, better processing, high-res still capability, GPS tagging, etc. This first look indicates a PQ almost indistinguishable from their prosumer XH A1: http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/9996.html

All of this in a form factor that is the slightest smidge bigger/heavier than the diminutive HF-11. Impressive.

I am not terribly concerned by the 10x zoom limit. As it is, 10x is barely usable handheld. I am also not concerned by the lack of viewfinder given the obvious tradeoffs, though it would be good if they improved the LCD brightness gain (at the expense of battery/power).

So I have placed a HF100 in my amazon cart for $529.00 for the past 5 days and don't want to pull the trigger. Our little one is turning one next month. I was hoping to have a HD cam before that. But the HF S100 seem pretty tempting. Will I see a big difference between the two for home movies! I am upgrading from a lowly Sony DCR-TRV17 MiniDV.

You know that the newer cams are going to cost more than twice than that when they first come out, right?

I was about to buy the HF-11, but the HF S10/100 has exactly the improvements I was looking for including bigger/better sensor, better glass, better processing, high-res still capability, GPS tagging, etc. This first look indicates a PQ almost indistinguishable from their prosumer XH A1: http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/9996.html

Same here...but I'm leaning towards the HF11.

I see that site you linked also has some screen grabs of the HF S10. I'm not too impressed with them - they look just like the HF11. But, it's not video, and I have to see a review/footage before I ultimately decide. I would like to know if the new processor handles the 24mbps more smoothly in a big way or just a minor thing like the way most people can't see the difference betwen the 17 and 24mbps on the present line of cams.

I'm more interested in the final image, than all the extras. Don't get me wrong, those look great to have, I just don't know if I want to sit through all these months waiting for the price to come down. Since the new cams are announced; the HF11 is due to start dropping.

The HF11 is still a great camcorder, no matter what else is coming out.

Same here...but I'm leaning towards the HF11.

I see that site you linked also has some screen grabs of the HF S10. I'm not too impressed with them - they look just like the HF11. But, it's not video, and I have to see a review/footage before I ultimately decide. I would like to know if the new processor handles the 24mbps more smoothly in a big way or just a minor thing like the way most people can't see the difference betwen the 17 and 24mbps on the present line of cams.

I'm more interested in the final image, than all the extras. Don't get me wrong, those look great to have, I just don't know if I want to sit through all these months waiting for the price to come down. Since the new cams are announced; the HF11 is due to start dropping.

The HF11 is still a great camcorder, no matter what else is coming out.
There are several screen grabs on this review.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/10026.html

There are several screen grabs on this review.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/10026.html

yeh, that's the page I was referring to.

Looks just like the HF11 , but need to see video to determine differences.

You know that the newer cams are going to cost more than twice than that when they first come out, right?

That is correct. Plus we can enjoy taking video right now when my son is learning to walk. He is crawling around now!! I think I am going to pull the trigger on the HF100 from Amazon for $529. May be if the low light performance is not good indoors, I can mount a horse shoe.

This is read 1 divided by 2.6 which equals .3846 inches. :D

Actually, the 1/2.6" figure is not the dimension of the sensor.
It is all very confusing and it's surprising that it is still being used. It originates from the CRT days back in the 50's; and the sensor size represents the diameter of the camera tube.

There is no formula to calculate the actual sensor size from the 1/2.6" specs; but it is roughly 2/3 of this value.

Same here...but I'm leaning towards the HF11.

I see that site you linked also has some screen grabs of the HF S10. I'm not too impressed with them - they look just like the HF11.

Then you must be a tough guy to please!!!

I was VERY impressed with those grabs. The color is beautiful and there's an 'openness' to those images that's very impressive.

I really want to see the video now! :eek:

Then you must be a tough guy to please!!!

I was VERY impressed with those grabs. The color is beautiful and there's an 'openness' to those images that's very impressive.

I really want to see the video now! :eek:

I'm not really that tough to please, considering I will settle for an HF11.

I'm just being honest in that the frame grabs look the same as the frame grabs from the HF11 - both look good, but the same (at this point).
Yeh, we need video..a lot of this is speculation. It's like judging a movie based on the screenplay alone.:rolleyes:

I just pulled the trigger on the HF100 at Amazon along with 2 16GB Transcend SDHC cards, and the 819 battery.

I just pulled the trigger on the HF100 at Amazon along with 2 16GB Transcend SDHC cards, and the 819 battery.

Welcome to the club. :)
You won't be disappointed.

Nice review of the HG21:

http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/camcorders/canon-vixia-hg21/9903.html

Actually, the 1/2.6" figure is not the dimension of the sensor.
It is all very confusing and it's surprising that it is still being used. It originates from the CRT days back in the 50's; and the sensor size represents the diameter of the camera tube.

There is no formula to calculate the actual sensor size from the 1/2.6" specs; but it is roughly 2/3 of this value.

Really?? I didn't know that.:rolleyes:

Which will come first for internal 64GB flash memory or a 64GB external flash memory card?

Which will come first for internal 64GB flash memory or a 64GB external flash memory card?

I don't know if you mean by Canon or in general...
but Samsung just announced the first ever camcorder with 64gb solid state internal memory at CES:

http://gizmodo.com/5124098/samsung-hmx+h106-first-camcorder-with-64gb-ssd-looks-like-a-thermos

I don't know if you mean by Canon or in general...
but Samsung just announced the first ever camcorder with 64gb solid state internal memory at CES:

http://gizmodo.com/5124098/samsung-hmx+h106-first-camcorder-with-64gb-ssd-looks-like-a-thermos

I meant non SSD. Hey if u could afford it you can use the highest GB SSD in a HDD camcorder.

Which will come first for internal 64GB flash memory or a 64GB external flash memory card?

The SDHC standard goes to a maximum of 32 GB so that's it. There is a new standard SDXC which is about to be finalized which starts at 64 GB and can go up to 2 Terabytes. Expect the first cards by the end of this year. It will use internally Microsoft's exFAT which is supported now only by PCs swith Vista SP1.It also specifies much higher transfer speeds than SDHC standard. The problem is that the current camera's and camcorders do not support SDXC and is not sure if a simple firmware update can fix that, and if it can , if the manufacturers will offer one.It's the same situation like the switch from SD to SDHC.However new devices with SDXC support will be able to use SDHC and SD cards for sure so you did not waste your money on cards.

Of course there is no limitation for the internal storage.

My guess, the next Canons will have at least 64GB of internal flash & SDXC support. Now lets hope a simple firmware update does the trick, who knows maybe SDXC cards will work right off the bat!:confused:

I'm surprised that even this year Cannon has not introduced even a single camcorder with 5.1 audio recording.

My guess, the next Canons will have at least 64GB of internal flash & SDXC support. Now lets hope a simple firmware update does the trick, who knows maybe SDXC cards will work right off the bat!:confused:


Well, in theory FAT32 used in SDHC can allow also sizes up to 2TB.You can not format it in Windows directlly for more than 32 GB but there are utilities which allow this to be done. It's everybody's guess if the camera's OS can go more than 32 GB or not, depends how they implemented it. So it might be possible to get let's say an SDXC 64 GB (formated in exFAT) reformat it to FAT32 and use it in current cameras (at "reduced" speeds of SDHC). This is just speculation, we will need to wait about a year to test.It might work with some devices and not with other. As for supporting SDXC out of the box for current devices, no way! As the final specs are not yet released nobody could test it. And exFAT is new and different than FAT32. But a firmware update might be possible, but require work and testing so IF it's done will be most likely just for the most recent series (2009 models at best).If the cards are starting to be released by the end of the year most likely the 2010 camcorders will not support it as by then the design is already finished.

My bet is that only 2011 models will be SDXC ready.

I'm surprised that even this year Cannon has not introduced even a single camcorder with 5.1 audio recording.


Do you really need 5.1 for your home videos ? I think for 99 % of users does not make any difference. I would also say for 95 % of users the viewfinder does not make any difference. And chosing between beter low light and better zoom I would allways take better low light.

Do you really need 5.1 for your home videos ? I think for 99 % of users does not make any difference. I would also say for 95 % of users the viewfinder does not make any difference. And chosing between beter low light and better zoom I would allways take better low light.

To tell you the truth, I don't think that 5.1 audio is a requirement for home videos but that's one feature that I'm very tempted to try and because of the I'm leaning towards Sony but extra zoom (12x vs 15x), better low light performance and cheaper memory makes the decision difficult.

To tell you the truth, I don't think that 5.1 audio is a requirement for home videos but that's one feature that I'm very tempted to try and because of the I'm leaning towards Sony but extra zoom (12x vs 15x), better low light performance and cheaper memory makes the decision difficult.

You forgot the concensus (albeit not 100%) that the Canon has the better picture overall....

I too wish they had 5.1. As a home theater nut (I'm surprised this forum doesn't tout the benefits of 5.1 more for camcorders), I would really find it great to hear sounds coming from the sides (if it truly distinguishes when recording and not just post processing). I always enjoy it when folks watch a movie at my house, or watch a football game and when their head jerks to the side because of the crowd noise coming from the sides/back of the room. Yup, gotta love good 5.1. But I haven't pulled the trigger yet as I'd like to hear some reviews on the new cameras.

And SDXC isn't really supposed to be ready till 2010 and beyond so I don't see it in these new cameras coming up...

I think my plan is to buy the HG21 now, and later this year when prices have dropped a bit on these cameras, to sell it and move up.

The date 4-15-09 is starting to be passed around for the release date for the new camcorders. I thought I had a HF 11 bought on ebay but it fell through, may have to wait for the new models, but didn't want to wait that long. Maybe some reviews will come out soon to answer some questions.

DLM-10 buy one now with the lowest price is my advice

The date 4-15-09 is starting to be passed around for the release date for the new camcorders. I thought I had a HF 11 bought on ebay but it fell through, may have to wait for the new models, but didn't want to wait that long. Maybe some reviews will come out soon to answer some questions.

Seems unusual that the HF11 still hasn't really fallen yet and is averaging @ $850.

DLM-10 get the HF10. The HF11 is not much better. Besides your name's not DLM-11:)

I really like the sound of the HF20 software sounds better have to wait and see about the new image sensor.

I just pulled the trigger on an HF10 for under $600....think that was a bad move? This is my first HD camcorder and will probably need to last me around 3yrs

The .pdf manuals for the HFS10/100 and HF20/200 are up at the Canon site.

Click on a camcorder and then click the tab all the way to the right that says Drivers & Downloads - it will be the first file (.pdf):

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=173

I was about to buy the HF-11, but the HF S10/100 has exactly the improvements I was looking for including bigger/better sensor, better glass, better processing, high-res still capability, GPS tagging, etc.There is no GPS tagging, FYI.

There is no GPS tagging, FYI.
Yeah, I read the press releases for the new Canons and Sonys at about the same time and mixed up this feature from the Sonys.

I believe GPS tagging to be an important feature as it automates one of the fundamental metadata Ws (who, what, when and where). With digital video so new, people don't yet appreciate descriptive data that will help them sift through and make usable the thousands/terabytes of files they find themselves with years down the road.

Yeah, I read the press releases for the new Canons and Sonys at about the same time and mixed up this feature from the Sonys.

I believe GPS tagging to be an important feature as it automates one of the fundamental metadata Ws (who, what, when and where). With digital video so new, people don't yet appreciate descriptive data that will help them sift through and make usable the thousands/terabytes of files they find themselves with years down the road.
I certainly agree with you, it's on of the reasons I ditched waiting for the HF-S line and bought Sony's HDR-XR500V. (The other reasons have to do with the Sony's overall superior performance.)

Hello Everyone,

I have found this forum to be very useful and informative. I am sure I will continue to find a wealth of info as time passes.

I am researching the Canon FS 21 Dual Flash Memory Camcorder. My current camcorder is a Panasonic Palmcorder VHS-C. My computer is not quite up to specs for rendering HD, so I will wait until I can also afford a new CPU before I go to HD recording. In the meantime, my brain is about the explode while researching all the different cameras available for SD recording.

So, do you think the, yet to be released, Canon FS 21 Dual Flash Memory Camcorder will give me enough resolution when played back on a 57" HDTV to not be grainy and for the most part disappointing?

Also, do you think flash memory recording will be as good a choice as hard drive recording? Since I have never recorded to anything but, first regular VHS and then VHS-C tapes; Ii am afraid of being disappointed with the results.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
TnGranna

you are in for a pleasant surprise.

these new hd camcorders blow sd video out of the water.

if there is enough light when you are shooting, grainy won't be an issue.

The S10 has appeared on Best Buy's website for preorder, with an estimated arrival date of April 6th. So it's just around the corner.

I'm new to the forum. Just bought an HF11 last week. Everything works fine. Installed SW that came with the camera but I can't write to DVD. It says something like 'disc format not supported'. Has anyone had this problem or know how to resolve it? I've never had issues writing to DVD for other things. Right now, I am just trying to write in std DVD format, not AVCHD or anything else since I don't have a BlueRay player yet.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks

I'm new to the forum. Just bought an HF11 last week. Everything works fine. Installed SW that came with the camera but I can't write to DVD. It says something like 'disc format not supported'.

thanks

Hi Blee8832!
Pixela supports DVD-R, DVD-R DL, and DVD-RW. What type DVD did you try?

Thanks lgs269

I just realized I need to back out of the sub-forum to post a new thread.

Anyway, I tried DVD-R and DVD DL-R. Neither worked. I've written on these discs with other programs such as Nero.