Since the previous two seasons of "Big Love" each got their own thread I figured I'd start a new thread for the third season that premieres a week from Sunday, Jan. 18th. For those that need a refresher course of what's been happening at the Hendrickson household(s) since you last saw them in 2007, here's a link to the previous two threads:

Season 1: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655375
Season 2: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=860226&highlight=big+love+hbo

And here's a NY Times article about how HBO is going about reminding audiences that (a) "Big Love" is coming back and (b) what the show is about: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/business/media/06adco.html?_r=1&ref=business. The show's never been a blockbuster by HBO standards (the first season ranked high only because it followed "The Sopranos") and the labyrinth plotlines and characters make it a tough sell for those not in the loop since day 1.

BTW this will be the first season of "Big Love" I'll get to watch in HD. The first two seasons I either didn't have an HDTV or didn't watch the show when it aired on the main HBO channel (the only one in HD offered by my cable provider). Can't wait to watch Bill, his wives and the prophet in high-def. :)

They showed 2 or 3 episodes back to back last Sunday in HD. Haven't looked if they are going to reshow the whole season before the premier of the new season. I would guess they are. Big Love is a great show.

larry

They showed 2 or 3 episodes back to back last Sunday in HD. Haven't looked if they are going to reshow the whole season before the premier of the new season. I would guess they are. Big Love is a great show.

larry

It really is. There's a lot more there than the salacious concept would suggest. My only complaint is the opening, which I enjoy far less than most of HBO's efforts. I think that Beach Boys song is just too overpowering. Even if the shows themselves are lacking, the openings to HBO series almost always impress and set the appropriate mood.

The ENTIRE series is available on demand but unfortunately not in HD.

They showed 2 or 3 episodes back to back last Sunday in HD. Haven't looked if they are going to reshow the whole season before the premier of the new season. I would guess they are. Big Love is a great show.

larry

They showed 6 episodes on Sunday and are showing the remaining 6 next Sunday. Got my DVR scheduled :)

My only complaint is the opening, which I enjoy far less than most of HBO's efforts.

My wife thinks the same thing. When we watch it on time shift, she always says skip past the opening, she hates it.

Interesting. I love the Beach Boys song. Although I can remember when it came out which brings back some fond memories. That may be part of it. :)

larry

The BIG difference for me between 2007 and now is

2007 -Had comcast and ONE HBO HD channel (870) I geberally watched the first screening (or DVred it)

2009 - Have Fios and their MANY HBO HDchannels (HBO,HBO2,HBO Signature and HBO Zone) (I doubt Big Love would run on HBO Family or HBO Comedy) and also get the west coast feeds. I will have MANY oppertunities to see it but will most likely catch the first HBO-E screening.


2009

If you should ever leave me
Though life would still go on believe me
The world could show nothing to me
So what good would living do me

Considering he’s a poligomist, it is an interesting choice for a theme. It’d make much more sense if it were just a couple.

So what good would living do me

Ummm...how about your other wives, or that new wife I’m sure your going to replace her with? :p

I like the song, but it doesn’t seem to fit.

Looking forward to this coming back!

If you should ever leave me
Though life would still go on believe me
The world could show nothing to me
So what good would living do me

Considering he’s a poligomist, it is an interesting choice for a theme. It’d make much more sense if it were just a couple.

So what good would living do me

Ummm...how about your other wives, or that new wife I’m sure your going to replace her with? :p

I like the song, but it doesn’t seem to fit.

I think the show's producers and fine actors have established clearly that Bill Hendrickson values his wives and extended family (all three households) sincerely, and almost to a fault. He'd do anything to provide for their well being but he also loves each of them because he sincerely believes (and struggles with) his polygamist upbringing. Yes, it's a sugar-coated Hollywood take on a controversial subject (the underage arranged marriages, for example, are only carried by Harry Dean Stanton's villanous Rolland and not virtuous-by-default lead character Bill) but the intro visuals, songs and lyrics are poignant because, while they're meant for two people in love, it applies to this household of three grown-ups entering into a polygamist relationship with their eyes wide open. The fact it was researched and shot to match this particular religion's afterlife promises to its practicers only makes it all the more interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_tdyISAylE. It's no "Sopranos" or "Dexter" caliber but hey, how many memorable opening intros can two decades of premium cable content generate? ;)

Interesting. I love the Beach Boys song. Although I can remember when it came out which brings back some fond memories. That may be part of it. :)

Same here. :)

So, anybody excited about tonight's S3 premiere? Over at the "Hot Off The Press" thread we've been posting lots of reviews (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838060&page=952) and they've been running 60-40 positive. Some critic's actively dislike the show (NY Daily News' Davod Hinckley) while others rave about it (Rob Owen from Pittsbugh Post-Gazette). You can tell who the fans are because they bring up the character backstory and intricate plots; the one's that are panning the show bring up the LDS and polygamy cards. Even "Big Love" critics that don't like the show rave about the cast though, including one (NY Post's Linda Stasi) that's calling it the next "Sopranos" or maybe even better than Tony's crew.

"Big Love" and "United States of Tara" over on Showtime are going to make my Sunday nights so much warmer and fuzzy in this harsh winter. :)

So, anybody excited about tonight's S3 premiere?

I think everybody is still exhausted and worn out from the BSG premiere on Friday (:eek:), and marshaling their strength for the 2-hour LOST premiere on Wednesday. :p

I've always liked this show and am looking forward to it's return, but not as much as several others premiering right about now. Their coming online fast and furiously since the nets have essentially launched a new season in January. A good-but-not-great show like 'Big Love' can get lost in the crowd. The one I'm really looking forward to tonight is HBO's "Flight of the Conchords". Those guys kill me. :D

Anyone understand what she said to "Chakotay's" lawyer? Not sure if it was english, hebrew or native american ... ?

Great episode. Very juicy season in the works.

Anyone understand what she said to "Chakotay's" lawyer? Not sure if it was english, hebrew or native american ... ?

Margine was reading and practicing from a "Shoshone" (native American) phrase book earlier in the episode. What she said, I don't know.

I thought she said we come in peace or something like that.

Did anyone notice that there were 6 chairs at the table in the opening piece? 4 of the chairs were filled but 2 of them were left open. We know who one of those chairs is likely to be filled with. I wonder who gets the 6th chair?

I thought she said we come in peace or something like that.


That just reminded me of that awful Sci Fi movie with the reply, "You go in pieces"! :D

I think it had to do with being a 'peaceful people"?

Interesting. I love the Beach Boys song. Although I can remember when it came out which brings back some fond memories. That may be part of it. :)

larry


Sorry couldn't resist the quote. "May you never hear surf music again"! It was an interesting choice but for me it fits the shows intro.

Did anyone notice that there were 6 chairs at the table in the opening piece? 4 of the chairs were filled but 2 of them were left open. We know who one of those chairs is likely to be filled with. I wonder who gets the 6th chair?

I have a feeling she won't make it. At least not this season. Also does anyone know how many episodes they made this season.

If you should ever leave me
Though life would still go on believe me
The world could show nothing to me
So what good would living do me

Considering he’s a poligomist, it is an interesting choice for a theme. It’d make much more sense if it were just a couple.

Of course, in the English language the formerly "formal" and now "everyday usage" pronoun "you" is both singular and plural. Now, if the song used the pronoun "thee" ... :)

Did anyone notice that there were 6 chairs at the table in the opening piece? 4 of the chairs were filled but 2 of them were left open. We know who one of those chairs is likely to be filled with. I wonder who gets the 6th chair?


I did. 3 extra wives? What about the comment its easier sometime to also marry the sisters....

Love this show set the tone for the rest of the season. Can't wait!

They really started out the season full bore! All kinds of possibilities for us. :) Did Bill do it or not?

larry

As for the chairs I belive they were like that at the start of season 1.

What stinks is NO HBO HD on Demand.

Sunday's episode was great. It touch on all the sub plots. I like how almost every actor plays important role in the story line. It seemed all the key players were active.

larry

Well I like they did not drag the Barb illness scare out. Now we get to see the effects of her decisions when in that state of mind.

Can't wait to see how the kids story line plays out. I like seeing the effect of the lifestyle on them and how they deal.

Not having lived in Utah, the scene in the doctors office with Nikki shocked me a little. Her reactions, to me at least, showed too much of her real thought process when she said she didn't have a choice. That would be a red flag for me, but I guess if you live there, you see that a lot so it isn't as out of place as those of us who do not live there might think.

The writing has gotten better and the character development is getting better as well. Ginnifier Goodwin is really convincing as Margene. She has the looks of a young 20 something down, almost teenager at times. You can tell Margene isn't stupid, just naive and Goodwin has really nailed it so far. The Chakotay scene with Margene on bigotry was well done! Maybe that extra time off is paying off.

I am almost to the point of wanting to be friends with the whole family!! WOW!

Yeah the Nikki office visit a red flag to get a social worker sent out. I have no choice on having kids.

I bet men forcing women to have kids is more common then you think.

The wife pointed out that the scene with Bill and Don and Margene carrying the model really showed how women in that social group are viewed, even in the more "liberal" families. Bill and Don absorbed in their own issues and not realizing Margene could use help with that EXPENSIVE model. Had she dropped it, it would have been her fault, even though Don was acting like a baby. Yeah, he wasn't a man there, that is for sure!

A pretty powerful episode last night, I thought. After the first season, I thought it might be hard for the writers to continue to come up with good material for the show. But this season has been great, and last night's episode was the best so far IMO. Bill is being pulled in so many directions, I can't imagine myself being able to keep it together if I were him. Really really good stuff last night ..

Yes I figured it would a day or two before people watched due to the superbowl.

The dating scene is going well, normal ups and downs just with 3 wifes in the mix.
I can't wait to see what Rhonda does next, you can just see the train wreck coming.

Yeah the best eppy of the history of the show I think. Cool directing, music and unreal writing & acting. Big Love gets better and more jacked up every week.

Big Love is definitely firing on all cylinders this season. It would be interesting to know how much of the whole story line was preconceived and what they added after each season.

larry

Does it seem weird to anyone else that Bill's New Gal does not have a clue about their religion and none of them seem to care? I would think that Barb would consider this to be a big issue. Then again Margene does not seem to be much of a religious person either.

It is interesting to see the show approach the issue of abuse and how these men take advantage of abused females. Even Bill, we find out now, has taken advantage of all his wives being weakened or abused in some way to have them accept this alternative lifestyle: Barb by cancer, Niki by her upbringing and 1st husband (and maybe her own father) and Margene by her mother. Bill seemed to be realizing this pattern but was able to rationalize it away pretty quickly with a little help from Barb and the thought of reconciling with the European gal. I think Bill has a lot more in-common with Roman than he is willing to face up to.

I think Bill has a lot more in-common with Roman than he is willing to face up to.

I don't. It's totally different to take advantage of someone then to force people to do things.

What a great episode. Bill's mom taking a call from Bill while murdering his father was little over the top, but believable for that character. The prom sub plot was touching. Classic quote (or paraphrase anyway) and theme for the show: Bill: "We could all use a little normalcy around here right now."

Somehow I think Frank will make it out of this little murder attempt. It wouldn't be as much fun if he dies.

BEST FREAKING EPISODE of ANY SHOW EVER! THAT FREAKING ROCKED! There were almost too many different sub plots to follow though. Still is the best show on TV.

Yeah, Bill's mom yelling "What?!?" into the phone while she's killing Frank was priceless. I too will miss Frank if he doesn't survive the plastic bag.

Am surprised how Barb is now wanting Ana as a wife. I thought she might have regretted her earlier position when she thought she may be sick again. But instead it looks like she really wants her in the family. As to Ana's lack of religion, I suspect that Bill and the women might just view this as a way of adding converts. Seems to have worked with Margene.

Wife and I are hooked on this show. I had watched them all along, but my wife just watched season 1 and 2 On Demand over the last couple of months. It was fun watching them again in order with her. No doubt though that this season is the best so far.

The casting, writing, and acting are just excellent.

It is interesting to see the show approach the issue of abuse and how these men take advantage of abused females. Even Bill, we find out now, has taken advantage of all his wives being weakened or abused in some way to have them accept this alternative lifestyle: Barb by cancer, Niki by her upbringing and 1st husband (and maybe her own father) and Margene by her mother. Bill seemed to be realizing this pattern but was able to rationalize it away pretty quickly with a little help from Barb and the thought of reconciling with the European gal. I think Bill has a lot more in-common with Roman than he is willing to face up to.

I'm not sure that Bill has that much in common with Roman at all. Perhaps there are some common characteristics in each of his wives that Bill could or may have (unconsciously) exploited, but there is not any evidence that Bill did exploit any of them. In fact, all 3 of Bill's wives come across to me - in varying degrees - as strong women, especially when they are compared to other sister-wives of other men on the camp. In addition, none of the 3 feel exploited in the least it seems.

What a great episode and season so far.

From Fredfa's "Hot Off the Press" thread:

TV Notes
HBO renews 'Big Love'
Network orders fourth season of polygamy drama
By James Hibberd, The Hollywood Reporter - February 4, 2009

HBO has given a fourth-season pickup to relationship drama "Big Love," from executive producers Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman.

"The stellar reviews and solid viewership this season confirm that this is a signature series for HBO," said Michael Lombardo, president of programming at HBO. "The series keeps getting better and better."

Although "Love" got off to a sluggish start in the ratings this season, each episode has added viewers. Sunday's outing drew 1.5 million viewers, up 29% from its January season premiere despite competition from the Super Bowl. Combined with encore episodes, the series averages about 5 million viewers.

Also, critics have been effusive about this season, which is always a factor for a subscription service like HBO that relies on generating a public perception of exclusive, high-quality content.

Production will begin later this year for a 2010 release. The show is executive produced by Playtone's Hanks and Goetzman and series creators Mark V. Olsen and Will Scheffer.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i55545185203bc0b1587d61a5ca922215

Excellent news!

Now that Roman is out, what kind of wrath can be expected?? :)

larry

Who knows. It will be interesting though. The most surprising part was how long the trial was. I thought it would at least last one episode before it fell apart.

You would have thought Nikki was about to step up. You also thought her secret would have been revealed in court with the DA office. Nope.

Nikki so far this season has been nothing but poison for her family, heck even Albie saw it. Wonder how that story line would end.

Also Nikki's mom with the little boy outside. Chilling.

Who knows. It will be interesting though. The most surprising part was how long the trial was. I thought it would at least last one episode before it fell apart.
The whole trial did seem a little "rushed". After 3 episodes of build up, *pfffft* over.

larry

The whole trial did seem a little "rushed". After 3 episodes of build up, *pfffft* over.

But I think that was the point. :)

My wife's comment after watching this weeks episode was, EVERYONE on that show is OFFICIALLY CRAZY in their own way. I think she is right.

Anyone know how many episodes in this season? is it another 12 episode season? HBO is driving me nuts with these short seasons. Just when the plot gets going BAM! tune in a year from now.

Another great episode which appears to be a setup for next weeks.

Anyone know how many episodes in this season? is it another 12 episode season? HBO is driving me nuts with these short seasons. Just when the plot gets going BAM! tune in a year from now.

I think 12 is pretty much the standard length for an HBO show.

Another great episode which appears to be a setup for next weeks.

The cable shows have 2 or 3 show story arcs. We just finished one and starting a new one.

Tonight's episode was the best yet in an incredible season...did people stop watching here??? No posts?

Tonight's episode was the best yet in an incredible season...did people stop watching here??? No posts?

Too busy watching the show. :)

What semi stinks is that it is not available on demand in HD. :(

I have to DVR record it - Generally the first screening on HBO East.

The past two weeks i have found myself catching the second HBO East screening and the first screening on HBO west is on right now (but me TV is off)

I agree 1000% I really like how Bill is struggling with his faith.

Really enjoyed this episode. Wow they're a dysfunctional family just like most of us in some way or other.:D Nikki's finally busted with the bcp's and about to stray now or later with the boss? Margene and Ben, they've finally opened up this can of worms. That was a long pause looking at each other naked! Didn't they start to develop a close bond last season?

Big Love has a core of creepy funniness, which I love but once in awhile it can get serious and sad. This week's episode was an example. I thought Sarah losing (I think) her baby and then agreeing to confess what had happened to her parents was gut wrenching, it moved me. Strong, strong stuff!

I was struck by the parallels to what happens on the compound to the young boys and how that culture came about. If Ben insists on being attracted to Margene, Bill could easily feel the need to expel him from the family. Even though Bill is trying to live a normal, moral type of polygamy, it's easy to see how the problems with that lifestyle (forced underage marriage and expelling the boys) can begin.

Tonight's episode was the best yet in an incredible season...did people stop watching here??? No posts?

Yes it was a very revealing episode. Putting all the family members together on the road trip away from the compound was a refreshing change of pace.
So many family secrets going back to season 1 were out of the bag.
Margene in the bikini becoming a substitute for Bill's pills had me rolling with laughter.
Just a great episode!

One of the best yet. We kept pausing it and replaying different scenes. Powerful stuff.

I was struck by the parallels to what happens on the compound to the young boys and how that culture came about. If Ben insists on being attracted to Margene, Bill could easily feel the need to expel him from the family. Even though Bill is trying to live a normal, moral type of polygamy, it's easy to see how the problems with that lifestyle (forced underage marriage and expelling the boys) can begin.
That kind of thing is kind of funny if you can look at meanspiritedly enough. Viewed objectively, though, it is horrible. Bill is a victim of his background. Although he is a good man in most ways, his refusal to recognize what a polygamous lifestyle does to its children is inexcusable. About the most I can say for him is that he has avoided child brides -- at least so far. :) If Big Love isn't the smartest show on television, I don't know what is.

I love this show. I got a little misty eyed when the family was forgiving Sarah at the end.

Great episode last night. I didnt realize that Bill's pill use was a secret. The Margene+Ben story line is going to be interesting how it plays out. The pill proxy scene was hilarious... Nikki and Wanda on the phone was funny too, "has he tried to put you in the trunk?" LOL!

Maybe it was just me but I had just thought that Margene had found one of the pills and when they kissed she slipped him the pill.

Maybe it was just me but I had just thought that Margene had found one of the pills and when they kissed she slipped him the pill.Nope. And I don't think it works that fast, too.

larry

Maybe it was just me but I had just thought that Margene had found one of the pills and when they kissed she slipped him the pill.

I thought the same thing. I think that is actually what the show was implying.

That was simply one of the best episodes of any show I have ever seen. And that is not the first time or last time I have said that about this show!

Nope. And I don't think it works that fast, too.

larry

A kiss from Margene would work that fast for me!

A kiss from Margene would work that fast for me!

Bill may be passive, but his upbringing could come out at any moment if he thought someone was poaching on any of his wifes. And "Nikki" of all people should know that. ;) But after the road trip, she may have it out of her system now.

Bill may be passive, but his upbringing could come out at any moment if he thought someone was poaching on any of his wifes. And "Nikki" of all people should know that. ;) But after the road trip, she may have it out of her system now.


You may be right but for me I'm not too sure about that in regards to her getting it "out of her system now". Nikki is so hard headed, she's focused one thing and one thing only and that's Nikki. She's literally screwed Bill how many times by her actions? She's been using bcp's for four years! The other two wives and Bill have got to be upset!

After the bcp's and the Sarah situation, on the trip, Nikki may see that it would destroy what she has and her father would not come to her rescue.

I enjoyed the bit of local flavor they had in last night's episode. Non-locals probably aren't aware, but Palmyra is close to Rochester. In fact we drive by Hill Cumorah on occasion on our way down to the Fingerlakes. In one of the motel rooms they had a weather forecast for Palmyra being broadcast on their television. It actually was Glenn Johnson, chief meteorologist from the local ABC affiliate WHAM 13.

The season is definitely getting better.

Although it was supposed to be another city completely, the old town/train scenes were shot in Old Sacramento. It was nice to see familiar landmarks in the show. :)

Although it was supposed to be another city completely, the old town/train scenes were shot in Old Sacramento. It was nice to see familiar landmarks in the show. :)

Yeah, they went out their way not to show Hill Cumorah. The site is basically a big parking lot with a hill behind it and grand stands for the show. You could never mistake it for anything else. I'm guessing there probably is nothing that would be similar enough in California to pull it off.

Wow, is all I have to say. What a powerful episode. This show keeps getting better and batter.

Only 3 episodes left!

I know "she" was doomed for but hoped she would live till next week. Also the letter was out of left field.

Can't believe only 3 episodes.

Great episode, like a fine wine, this show really has improved with age. The music during this episode was outstanding, it's not listed at the HBO site yet so I'm not sure what it was, but it really worked well with the drama portrayed on the screen.

Great episode, like a fine wine, this show really has improved with age. The music during this episode was outstanding, it's not listed at the HBO site yet so I'm not sure what it was, but it really worked well with the drama portrayed on the screen.
Yeah, I could not agree more. My TiVo hiccuped on Sunday night's showing, so I didn't get a chance to see it until tonight. Holy smoke! There is a lot to think about in every episode. I hope it survives because few shows this smart do.

I agree that the music was very effective, particularly the hymn sung over the closing credits by a big choir, maybe the Mormon Tabernacle Choir -- wouldn't that be ironic? :)

Nobody caught last nights episode! I seriously don’t know how they could make this show any better. Only 2 more episodes left this season.

Is it possible that Big Love could be as big a hit for HBO as the Sopranos?

I just dont the show to end. Two episodes left and so so much that is going wrong in Bill's Family. How will it it.

Nikki still a member of the family is throwing me for a loop. She just refuses to get it.

Two episodes left and then there is NEXT SEASON!!

Nikki still a member of the family is throwing me for a loop. She just refuses to get it.
I loved this week's episode -- again! Nikki does create a lot of food for thought. In some ways, she is as sociopathic as her father, but seems to have a tender heart, which Roman sure as hell lacks. At her core, Nikki is her own worst enemy. Everything she gets into, whatever its ostensible reason, is tragically self-destructive. Unfortunately, Nikki's rash decisions always create at least as many problems for others as she brings upon herself.

I am enjoying having Hollis Greene back in the picture. He probably isn't any more dangerous than Roman but he is even more ruthless and violent. He and his running mates are bad folks. Speaking of Hollis' running mates, is the person who seems to be Hollis' ace assistant a man who sometimes dresses as a woman or vice versa?

If there is a series on TV these days better than Big Love, I am at a loss to say what it is.

I am enjoying having Hollis Greene back in the picture. He probably isn't any more dangerous than Roman but he is even more ruthless and violent. He and his running mates are bad folks. Speaking of Hollis' running mates, is the person who seems to be Hollis' ace assistant a man who sometimes dresses as a woman or vice versa?
.


I think that is his Wife. Only 1 episode ago did you see her dress as a woman and Kathy stab her with a pitchfork.

I think that is his Wife. Only 1 episode ago did you see her dress as a woman and Kathy stab her with a pitchfork.
I did see that and I, too, am inclined to think that the character is a woman. In the scene in Bill's office in which Bill got saved from strangulation only by Don's quick thinking, I thought, despite the suit and tie, the character probably was really a woman dressed as a man.

I did see that and I, too, am inclined to think that the character is a woman. In the scene in Bill's office in which Bill got saved from strangulation only by Don's quick thinking, I thought, despite the suit and tie, the character probably was really a woman dressed as a man.

OH THAT person. No Idea. I think that person is a man but I could be fooled.

No, it is a woman dressing as a man to display power since women in that society have no power. It was explained last season when the Green's were first introduced. As off the rails as Juniper Creek is, the Green's make Roman's kingdom look mainstream by comparison. I think that is the purpose, to have a foe of equal statue for Roman besides Bill and his clan.

From the wiki on Big Love:

Selma Green, Hollis' first wife and partner, youngest sister of Roman. A woman, but usually dressed in a man's suit with a male hair style.

Nobody caught last nights episode! I seriously don’t know how they could make this show any better. Only 2 more episodes left this season.

Is it possible that Big Love could be as big a hit for HBO as the Sopranos?

I don't know about that, but the creators of this show are certainly firing on all cylinders, and supercharged at that. This has been an incredible season so far, simply outstanding TV. The writers seem to have this uncanny ability to introduce twists and turns, and different characters at exactly the right moment and situation, overall a superb presentation.

No, it is a woman dressing as a man to display power since women in that society have no power. It was explained last season when the Green's were first introduced. As off the rails as Juniper Creek is, the Green's make Roman's kingdom look mainstream by comparison. I think that is the purpose, to have a foe of equal statue for Roman besides Bill and his clan.

From the wiki on Big Love:

Selma Green, Hollis' first wife and partner, youngest sister of Roman. A woman, but usually dressed in a man's suit with a male hair style.
Thanks for confirming this. I agree that in comparison to the stuff Hollis and his crew do, Roman's antics seem almost benign -- well, maybe not "benign." :)

Can Nicolette dig a deeper hole for herself?? I wonder if it's a setup for a turnaround for her to "save the day" somehow wrt the letter.

larry

Nikki is my favorite character on the show, no one else comes close. Most of her problems comes from her divided loyalties for her new family and her compound family. Nikki's biggest character flaw is wanting to please everyone as well as herself all at the sametime..............which is imposible to do.

... Nikki's biggest character flaw is wanting to please everyone as well as herself all at the sametime..............which is imposible to do.

Hmm. I'm not so sure she really ever tries to please her sister wives very much.

I love this show. More and more each week. Tremendous writing, just brilliant!

I don't know about that, but the creators of this show are certainly firing on all cylinders, and supercharged at that. This has been an incredible season so far, simply outstanding TV. The writers seem to have this uncanny ability to introduce twists and turns, and different characters at exactly the right moment and situation, overall a superb presentation.

What have the ratings been for BL this season? Do they come close to Sopranos?

I wouldn't think that Big Love has Sopranos type ratings, even though it is an excellent show. Although if Big Love keeps on track and keeps getting better, things might change. However, I think the subject matter of Sopranos and it's more "expansive" character base might have attracted more people than Big Love does now.

larry

What have the ratings been for BL this season? Do they come close to Sopranos?

I don't know, but you could probably ask in the HOTP thread and get an answer pretty quick.

As PS notes above, the subject matter would probably prevent this show from becoming as popular as The Sopranos.

Great show this week. The writing is just first class with multiple plot threads all intersecting at logical points. Nikki (teriffic acting by Chloe) has developed into the most interesting character on the show. She is being torn in so many directions that it's dizzying. She is as devious as her parents but much deeper than either of them. There are so many signs that she is possibly deeply conflicted about the "Principle". The birth control pills and the flirtation with the DA seemed to indicate this. Here is woman who has been sheltered from the real world all of her life and had been joined to Bill, even though she loves him. Now she gets a job in the DA's office, regardless of the motives, that she's good at, showing her a degree of worth and independence that was missing. The she attracts the affections of an accomplished, and very handsome DA, another new and self-worth building step. Coming from the compound as she did, this has to be mind boggling to her and she's almost duplicating Sarah's rebellion aganst the Principle in some ways. The lack of control that Bill now feels over his own family (let alone all of the shady business deals) just adds to the greatness of this season. And to top it off, having Hollis Greene and his homicidal sharp dressing wife Selma back just adds to the fun. Gotta like a woman who can fill a 1970's business suit that way:D

Nikki is my favorite character on the show, no one else comes close. Most of her problems comes from her divided loyalties for her new family and her compound family. Nikki's biggest character flaw is wanting to please everyone as well as herself all at the sametime..............which is imposible to do.
I believe her problems come from her dysfunctional childhood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

I love the Woodruff letter stuff. The church trying to say there ending pologamy but not really.

I've heard the Mormon church has made statements that there getting perturbed at Big Love. This should help viewership.;)

I've heard the Mormon church has made statements that there getting perturbed at Big Love. This should help viewership.;)

Just made headlines...."Big Love" makers apologize to Mormons, to air show anyway (http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE5297AK20090310)

What have the ratings been for BL this season? Do they come close to Sopranos?

No, not as good as Soprano's but I don't think any series on pay cable has come close. But the ratings are good enough that HBO renewed for a 4th season after 3 just episodes. Each week the number of viewers have increased since the start of the season.

Gotta like a woman who can fill a 1970's business suit that way:D

Amen, brother!! :D

Just made headlines...."Big Love" makers apologize to Mormons, to air show anyway (http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE5297AK20090310)

This is what I just love, people protesting something they have no first hand knowledge of. They want to be more mainstream, they need to be less touchy about things. If what the LDS members who have posted on the HBO site are what most LDS members are like, then Barb's sister Cindy and her family would seem to be a pretty accurate depiction of mainstream LDS. If LDS was smart, they would use BL to further their agenda instead of complaining and protesting all the time.

IMHO, golden marketing opportunity lost.

Gotta like a woman who can fill a 1970's business suit that way

Amen, brother!! :D
Not to mention the greaser hairstyle. if Selma was any more butch, she'd be Hollis:p

Big Love isn't about the LDS, a church organized in 1830. The family in Big Love would more closely fit the FLDS, a church formed over a hundred years later, about 1935. The continued blurring of the two religions by Big Love producers is what chafes, as does the trivializing/depictions out of context of what the LDS consider very sacred. Executive producer Tom Hanks/Mark Olsen, et al, are exacting revenge for the LDS fight for the definition of marriage on California Prop 8. Hanks even went so far as to say the LDS were "un-American for voting" on this issue (!). Hollywood idiot. Big Love is Hank's bully pulpit.

Another take on the upcoming episode.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/ap_on_en_tv/tv_mormon_church_hbo

Big Love isn't about the LDS, a church organized in 1830. The family in Big Love would more closely fit the FLDS, a church formed over a hundred years later, about 1935. The continued blurring of the two religions by Big Love producers is what chafes, as does the trivializing/depictions out of context of what the LDS consider very sacred. Executive producer Tom Hanks/Mark Olsen, et al, are exacting revenge for the LDS fight for the definition of marriage on California Prop 8. Hanks even went so far as to say the LDS were "un-American for voting" on this issue (!). Hollywood idiot. Big Love is Hank's bully pulpit.
Although Big Love just may be Tom Hanks' method of revenge for what the LDS did to get Prop 8 passed, it's a pretty damned entertaining "bully pulpit" for most of us. :)

Although Big Love just may be Tom Hanks' method of revenge for what the LDS did to get Prop 8 passed, it's a pretty damned entertaining "bully pulpit" for most of us. :)
Its very entertaining. And when I read stuff like this I just need more "Big Love". This is a great show.

http://www.ldsdoctrine.blogspot.com/2007/06/racism-and-priesthood.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy55.html

Big Love isn't about the LDS, a church organized in 1830. The family in Big Love would more closely fit the FLDS, a church formed over a hundred years later, about 1935. The continued blurring of the two religions by Big Love producers is what chafes, as does the trivializing/depictions out of context of what the LDS consider very sacred. Executive producer Tom Hanks/Mark Olsen, et al, are exacting revenge for the LDS fight for the definition of marriage on California Prop 8. Hanks even went so far as to say the LDS were "un-American for voting" on this issue (!). Hollywood idiot. Big Love is Hank's bully pulpit.

Hate to break the news to you, but this season of BL was shot and in the can before Prop 8 was voted on. While Hanks has his name on it, he doesn't have much to do with the day to day operations of the show or the writing of it. He is the "money guy", not the "story guy." It is up the "story guy" to bring money in to the "money guy." If it falls apart it isn't the "money guys" fault but the "story guy." Big difference.

Let's stick to the show, guys, before things get carried away. Thanks.

larry

In regards to the show, I think part of what is interesting about the series is the interaction between the FLDS types (compound), the "church of Bill" which clearly is a meld of FLDS (Bill's upbringing) and LDS (Barb's upbringing and their church before Nikki's addition) and the mainstream LDS family, culture, and neighbors.

I am in a position to know that it is accurate enough to be credible. And they have made it extremely entertaining. As the series has progressed, I have been surprised at the lack of a positive picture of polygyny. They have gone out of their way to demonstrate the challenges and conflicts inherent in plural marriage.

Can't wait for the last two episodes. Sure wish there were more than 12 episodes per season....

Nikki is my favorite character on the show, no one else comes close. Most of her problems comes from her divided loyalties for her new family and her compound family. Nikki's biggest character flaw is wanting to please everyone as well as herself all at the sametime..............which is imposible to do.
I disagree. I think she is self centered, judgemental and untrustworthy. Remember The credit cards? All the lying about birth control. She does have some mental problems though. She can't see right from wrong. Her father is the personification of evil yet she spies for him against her husbands interests. Unbelievable.

I disagree. I think she is self centered, judgemental and untrustworthy. Remember The credit cards? All the lying about birth control. She does have some mental problems though. She can't see right from wrong. Her father is the personification of evil yet she spies for him against her husbands interests. Unbelievable.
I agree to a point. I do think that Nikki -- in stark contrast to her father -- has a core of decency but, admittedly, she shares some of her father's sociopathic tendencies. Her moral compass always points in whatever direction tells her that what she wants to do is right. Thus, although Nikki wants to do what is right, she can't understand what that is.

Nikki is a borderline personality. Causes of BPD are abandonment issues http://www.newliving.com/issues/nov_2003/articles/abandon.html and most likely in Nikki's case child molestation.

If Bill understood somethings about Nikki he probably wouldn't have married her. But look at the garden that raised Bill? Lois is his mother?

This lifestyle is a mess

By just watching the show, I personally get no agenda from the producers other than, plural marriage isn't a cake walk and isn't for 99.9% of the population and maybe we don't understand as much about it as we think we do.

It was not a life style that suited me before the show and now after watching it, it has convinced me even more that it DEFIANTLY isn't a life style I want to be in. But, it does have that voyeurism feel of of a bad car wreak. I think that is a big draw for the show but then the writing takes over and you see it is much more than just a Jim Jeffers kind of show.

It [plural marriage] was not a life style that suited me before the show and now after watching it, it has convinced me even more that it DEFIANTLY isn't a life style I want to be in. But, it does have that voyeurism feel of of a bad car wreak. I think that is a big draw for the show but then the writing takes over and you see it is much more than just a Jim Jeffers kind of show.
Watching the weird lifestyles of Bill and his harem, and the people in the compound is creepy. So much so that watching Big Love does, indeed, sometimes seem to be akin to watching a car crash. But it is wonderful fodder for drama leavened by humor. I often find myself laughing at some of the situations but nevertheless understand that there's something profoundly sad going on, especially when poor Barb and her kids are involved. Big Love is good stuff!

Lately I have been enjoying the machinations of Barb's horrible, meanspirited sister and her sleazy, careerist LDS politician husband. They are REALLY nasty!

Love this show, sad to see only 2 episodes left this season.
Regarding the polygamy, the in-depth portrayal on this show is probably having a cultural impact on us we are not keenly aware of. Kind of like the portrayal of gays on TV has helped us to see them as regular human beings like each of us, rather than strange and unusual. Or the portrayal of the black president on 24 a few years ago prepared us for a real black president. If a polygamist family was to move in next door to you now, you might even bring over to them a welcome plate and invite them over for the super bowl. ;-)

Nikki is a borderline personality. Causes of BPD are abandonment issues http://www.newliving.com/issues/nov_2003/articles/abandon.html and most likely in Nikki's case child molestation.

If Bill understood somethings about Nikki he probably wouldn't have married her. But look at the garden that raised Bill? Lois is his mother?

This lifestyle is a messYou got that right. I keep praying his daughter will run away and never look back.:rolleyes:

Love this show, sad to see only 2 episodes left this season.
Regarding the polygamy, the in-depth portrayal on this show is probably having a cultural impact on us we are not keenly aware of. Kind of like the portrayal of gays on TV has helped us to see them as regular human beings like each of us, rather than strange and unusual. Or the portrayal of the black president on 24 a few years ago prepared us for a real black president. If a polygamist family was to move in next door to you now, you might even bring over to them a welcome plate and invite them over for the super bowl. ;-)


Of course I would invite them over for a Super Bowl party, minus the alcohol and soda!;)

Of course I would invite them over for a Super Bowl party, minus the alcohol and soda!;)

Mormons drink 7UP very handily. They don't drink drink Coke because it contains caffeine.

If what the LDS members who have posted on the HBO site are what most LDS members are like, then Barb's sister Cindy and her family would seem to be a pretty accurate depiction of mainstream LDS.

I'm a member, and I can honestly say that sadly enough, that the majority of the members I know are like this (There are really cool ones too:) What disturbs me right now is the effort and money that was put into that California prop 8 when the church is supposed to stay out of politics and not be affiliated with political parties (although not directly stated, pretty obvious which one). I could go on, but this liberal mormon (oxymoron? - yep!) better stay on show topic. I love how it just keeps getting better and better each week. The funeral was very emotional and it had the girls tearing up for a bit. Definitely wish there were more than 2 episodes left. I think my family are the only Mormons that have family home evening by watching Big Love:p i think a great deal of members would find that more appalling than our family gatherings of Dexter parties.

maintman,

Thanks for dropping by. I know you can't realistically comment on a breakaway sect of the church that doesn't exist (unless you feel you can, I don't know) so I won't ask! If you don't mind answering a couple questions for us who have little to no knowledge of the church beyond the occasional TV PSA ads and the show, would you say that BL is a fairly accurate dramatization of the mainstream church, where they show it? Those who practice plural marriage in the main society and try to keep it low key like Bill, is it as obvious in real life as it is on the show? And do many of the "mainstream plural marriages" like Bill's congregate in multiple houses side-by-side like in the show or do they try and stay "split up" to keep under the radar?

Having been born, raised and lived my whole life so far in the southern Bible Belt, seeing "out there" religious views is nothing new for me. I have a basic concept of it. My wife's uncle is an ordained Southern Baptist minster. Oh, the conversations at family get-togethers!

Personally, if the Hendrikson's moved in next door to me, even knowing Nikki is a nutcase, as long as things stayed lowed key and blood doesn't flow in the street so to speak and all members try and do the right things, and it looks like Bill tries really hard to do that, I wouldn't have an issue with them even though it is something that I may not particularly do myself.

Nutcases in our neighborhood isn't new. We had a newlywed couple move in next door to me about 10 years ago. After about 3 months they got in the habit of going out in the front yard at 2 am to verbally fight. Everyone heard them, but as long as it stayed non violent, the neighbors put up with it. That went on for about 2 weeks and then she left and never returned. Good for her!! He stayed on another 6 or 7 years then went into foreclosure and bankruptcy. Gee, almost sounds like the Hendrikson's!

Just when you think the writers can't crank it any tighter, THEY DO! Next week looks AWESOME!

You aren't kidding, incredibly intense, without a doubt one of the very, very best dramas on TV.

Fox,

IMO, BL does an excellent job of portraying the LDS church. The members they have for the show like Cindy, and the neighbors remind me a lot of what we like to refer as "bubble mormons." They live in a sheltered skewed life and kinda cut out the outside world. Of course not all of them are like that, but Mormons are used to getting negative attention...and I think the reason they are getting so upset at this show is because it's actually getting it right for the most part. I personally can't comment on any experience with the FLDS because I live in the bible belt as well, but my brother served a mission in Utah and has had a little bit of experience with them, but not much. The show does make me wonder if they are any letters floating around like that being kept secret.

Another great episode.

what's up with Bill getting his last shot of Nikki before cutting her loose :p

I thought he was taking her back.

Phenomenal episode. The music was evocative of classic 50's Hitchcock.

Another great episode.

what's up with Bill getting his last shot of Nikki before cutting her loose :p

I thought he was taking her back.Guess you've never been seperated or divorced? What I find absurd is the idea that he ever married his enemies daughter to begin with.

Fox,

IMO, BL does an excellent job of portraying the LDS church. The members they have for the show like Cindy, and the neighbors remind me a lot of what we like to refer as "bubble mormons." They live in a sheltered skewed life and kinda cut out the outside world. Of course not all of them are like that, but Mormons are used to getting negative attention...and I think the reason they are getting so upset at this show is because it's actually getting it right for the most part. I personally can't comment on any experience with the FLDS because I live in the bible belt as well, but my brother served a mission in Utah and has had a little bit of experience with them, but not much. The show does make me wonder if they are any letters floating around like that being kept secret.

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate them. It helps me in the "believability factor" of the show. It is obvious that Juniper Creek and the Green's are fictitious even though I am sure somewhat based on Jim Jeffers and others we don't even know about, but if the "real world basics" of the show are rooted in reality, it makes the obviously fictitious plausible. Star Trek is another good example of "obviously fictitiously plausible."

As far as this episode, I could see how some of LDS could be offended by the Temple scene. Ritual is an important component of all forms of religion and like Barb, I too like a little ritual with my religion (no offense to the mega churches, just not my cup of tea). While I was interested in what was I seeing, I will admit I don't know exactly what I was looking at even though the whole thing artistically and religiously was quite beautiful, I need to run that scene on the DVR again to get a better handle on it. I don't understand what the purpose of the Temple is or for and why (as was stated on the show a taste of heaven?) but it does help to understand the differences and sameness in the mainstream church and the FLDS breakaways who also have steeped rituals as well. It helps understand the dynamics within the show and makes for this rich writing we are enjoying this season. In other words, BL is now not just about a man with three wives. It has evolved beyond that, IMHO.

http://ldsmediatalk.com/2009/03/12/church-video-on-purpose-of-temples/

Interesting video. Looks like the hits on it skyrocketed from last night to today.

What I find absurd is the idea that he ever married his enemies daughter to begin with.


Kingdoms have been doing this for centuries.


Guess you've never been separated or divorced?

True, Breakup sex is the best :p

Phenomenal episode. The music was evocative of classic 50's Hitchcock.

What is that music? They've been using it for the last couple of episodes and it's worked really well with the visual content.

Poor Barb going to be cast to outer darkness.

How aburd and how religions use fear.

I bet her sleazy brother-in-law gets her "reinstated."

What is that music? They've been using it for the last couple of episodes and it's worked really well with the visual content.

Cross Philip Glass with Bernard Hermann and you've got the brooding exposition of late season 3.

Cross Philip Glass with Bernard Hermann and you've got the brooding exposition of late season 3.

Indeed, I've looked around and see questions about it, but no answers. Only the individual songs/selections are listed at the HBO site.

Nothing seems to be going right for anybody! :) I like how the boyfriend shows up and then next thing you know they're in Nikki's bed. "It's not what you think!" Can't blame the guy. 1 or 2 more episodes to go?

larry

1 or 2 more episodes to go?

Just the season finale next week.

Nothing seems to be going right for anybody! :) I like how the boyfriend shows up and then next thing you know they're in Nikki's bed. "It's not what you think!" Can't blame the guy. 1 or 2 more episodes to go?

larry


Great great episode again. What a show.


I thought the boyfriend on Nikki's bed scene was the only mis-step of the episode actually. Not a big deal at all, but it just seemed out of place, and a stretch. After being scolded by Bill, and after Bill telling the boyfriend never to see Sarah again, not only did the Sarah (who is smart), contact the boyfriend, make up with the boyfriend, INVITE THE BOYFRIEND OVER TO THE HOUSES (you can see where this is going), but then proceed to have sex IN one of her houses :-). I know she's a teenager and all, but from her character, and from noting her character's behavior in past shows, this seemed a bit of a stretch. Even if they were just caught in a motel or something, that would seem less of a stretch to me.

Anyway, such a little thing in a great episode and great show. The finale looks to be awesome too ..

Finally Nikki gets the boot! Go Bother Bill.

This show is a swirling mess of conflicts which is what makes this show worth watching.

Finally Nikki gets the boot! Go Bother Bill.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think he's going to take her back. You know he wants to. He was daydreaming about it at the restaurant.

Anybody notice Barb's outfit was green when meeting the church leaders, but was brown when arriving home?

Great great episode again. What a show.


I thought the boyfriend on Nikki's bed scene was the only mis-step of the episode actually. Not a big deal at all, but it just seemed out of place, and a stretch. After being scolded by Bill, and after Bill telling the boyfriend never to see Sarah again, not only did the Sarah (who is smart), contact the boyfriend, make up with the boyfriend, INVITE THE BOYFRIEND OVER TO THE HOUSES (you can see where this is going), but then proceed to have sex IN one of her houses :-). I know she's a teenager and all, but from her character, and from noting her character's behavior in past shows, this seemed a bit of a stretch. Even if they were just caught in a motel or something, that would seem less of a stretch to me.

Anyway, such a little thing in a great episode and great show. The finale looks to be awesome too ..

Yes, the episode/show would have not really been any different if they had just skipped the BF showing up. It just added a little more unpredictability.

larry

Anybody notice Barb's outfit was green when meeting the church leaders, but was brown when arriving home?

no didnt notice that...but maybe Barb has a twin! :D

no didnt notice that...but maybe Barb has a twin! :D

Oh no, not another wife!:D:D

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the Top of the 'HDTV Programming' Page:

Critic's Notes
Together Forever
From Virginia Heffernan's New York Times 'The Medium' Column - March 22, 2009

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/03/22/magazine/22medium-190.jpg

On “Big Love,” HBO’s polygamist family drama, the Henricksons, Bill and Barb, live on a sparkling block in Sandy, Utah, with their three children — far from Bill’s backwoods mom and siblings, from whom he has evidently distanced himself. Next door resides Nicki Grant, a single mother, with her two sons; she seems to have no other family. And next to Nicki lives another single mother, Margene Heffman, with her three kids. Each house has its own door, its own mailbox, its own land line.

But where the typical troubled American family seems unified but is secretly divided, the group on “Big Love” seems divided but is secretly joined. The characters maintain an illusion of self-sufficiency while being deeply interdependent. They’re a single family. Bill is still passionately involved with his mother and brother; Nicki’s attachment to her nefarious father and mother binds as tightly as any child’s. And the entrances on the Sandy block open onto a common backyard, cunningly designed to appear trisected only when necessary.

Like a grown-up who seems to support himself until you learn his mother pays the bills, these people are not autonomous at all. They’re three in one, this family. And this is the central creep-out factor of the Henricksons’ polygamy. It is a religious and social math, here expressed by the plural marriage of some fundamentalist Mormons, that has galled Americans since before Lincoln. Our Protestant religious tradition and unionist politics routinely emphasize — and enforce — oneness: one husband, one wife, one nation, one God.

“Big Love,” which is sealing up its third season on HBO, bills itself as a show about secrets. Its Web site catalogs the secrets of its characters, and viewers are invited to compare their secrets with those of the Henricksons. This is a mistake. On “Big Love,” nothing is secret. The women, who are all sleeping with the same man, share intelligence and gossip ferociously about one another. Everyone confides and confesses. Even the Henricksons’ polygamy, which when the series began was a secret scrupulously kept from neighbors and colleagues, seems well known about Sandy now.

Instead of secrets, “Big Love” has come to address the existential horror that’s to be found in mandatory unity. This is not an easy anxiety to face in a country that insists on e pluribus unum — but it’s an unease that attends even institutions, like good marriages or American democracy, that purport magnanimously to leave room for individualism.

At times, in fact, Bill Henrickson’s tolerance for the idiosyncrasies of his three wives (Barb’s longing for worldliness; Nicki’s tug of loyalty toward Roman, her sinister father; Margene’s preoccupation with trivia and fun) comes across as his most insidious quality. This season, his carefully cultivated benevolence toward his wives has helped tighten the noose of the shared marriage, as an individual consciousness begins to seem like something a wife enjoys only on her husband’s sufferance and any wife who complains about repression appears ungrateful.

No wonder the wives on the show have become increasingly unhappy, even desperate. This has been a surprising development on a series that has taken pains to suggest that polygamy can be a successful, if unconventional, way to run a household. And indeed, the Henricksons often seem wonderfully harmonious, with Bill a kind, upright and even indulgent patriarch. But Margene (played by Ginnifer Goodwin) copped to depression recently; she hates staying home with children and misses the rowdy ways of her party-girl mother. Barb — acted by Jeanne Tripplehorn, who recently told The Los Angeles Times that her character eludes her at times — feels friendless and abnormal. She seems plagued with fundamental misgivings about her life’s trade-offs. And Nicki, who is played by the fantastic, gimlet-eyed Chloë Sevigny, has gone completely rogue. She refuses to procreate and has started cheating on her husband. And co-wives.

You can be forgiven for seeing Bill (played by Bill Paxton) as the victim. These women have traded a measure of female suffering for his munificence. Barb, his first wife, embraced polygamy as a route both to more children and to more money (Nicki’s father offered her and Bill a business loan as a dowry). Nicki, who had been exiled from ordinary life as the daughter of a self-styled prophet, acquired with Bill and Barb the trappings of middle-class existence. And Margene, who seemed headed for dissipation, found in marriage to Bill and his wives respectability and stability. It is a point of pride to the show’s creators, a married gay couple, that the family, as a whole, runs well and evinces good cheer.

Yet in spite of its seeming celebration of diverse family arrangements, the show bristles with so much submerged pain that nearly every character seems marked for spiritual death, the way characters on “The Sopranos” used to be marked for actual death. The wives’ endurance is wearing thin. They have lost their capacity to contort themselves for Bill’s orthodoxy. They can no longer be one, when they are so decisively three. And you don’t have to object to polygamy on principle, anymore, to see that it’s strangling the women of “Big Love” — even as, maddeningly, it seems to meet their needs.

Now all of the wives seem prepared to make a break for it, even as they recognize they might be forfeiting their serenity: their money, their homes, their community. In a culture that celebrates staying together and working things out, the restlessness of Bill’s wives, even when they have it so good, has made them less readily sympathetic but much more interesting.

The particular binds of fundamentalist Mormonism come to light in “Under the Banner of Heaven,” Jon Krakauer’s rowdy 2003 book about the faith. I finally read it this season, as a companion to “Big Love.” I recommend it. The book includes a quotation from DeLoy Bateman, who gave up *polygamy and then surrendered religious faith entirely. He told Krakauer he doesn’t regret abandoning it. “Some things in life are more important than being happy,” he says, expressing the unmistakable tension at the heart of “Big Love.” “Like being free to think for yourself.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/magazine/22wwln-medium-t.html?ref=television

The season finale was explosive.

A few things you would expect to happen does happen but not in the way you would expect it. There may even be a surprise or two (or more)

Bring on Season 4. :)

Yeah I already tried to google and see when season 4 was coming. No info yet

So who honestly feels that Roman will be dead and someone not come and bring him back to life? I know I'm hoping that's the case. I enjoy the back and forth between Bill and him.

from what I dug up while i was doing a quick search for a season 4. It looks like J.J. will be trying to take Roman's place. I think they might have completed the job this season.

So who honestly feels that Roman will be dead and someone not come and bring him back to life? I know I'm hoping that's the case. I enjoy the back and forth between Bill and him.

I hope not. After three seasons I think we deserve a new big bad.

Yeah I already tried to google and see when season 4 was coming. No info yet

They haven't started writing it yet. That is still a few months away.

Somethings I did not see coming, others I did (such as the engagement)
Overall very enjoyable.

Great show last night. Margene was awesome. I still wonder about Nikki, will she change now that the missing/broken piece of her is back or will that just compound her troubles? I think Barb will be okay, hope she doesnt go having a baby now considering that Nikki is back. I doubt Roman is dead, but my guess is he wont come back in to the picture until Bill is settled in to his new 'church' and Bill's thinking everything is back to 'normal'. As the posted NYT article suggests, reading Under the Banner of Heaven helps put perspective on the storyline of Big Love. I am only about 1/4 through the book and the basics are clear and present.

Cant wait until next season!

from what I dug up while i was doing a quick search for a season 4. It looks like J.J. will be trying to take Roman's place. I think they might have completed the job this season.

If so, Harry Dean Stanton had a great run on the show. If J.J. does make a move to take over, it will be fun to watch Zelko Ivanik. He's one of the best working actors around and has been on many major TV shows over the past few years (as well as movies and the stage).

So now we have the new Church of Bill? Did he withdraw his offer of the perpetual donation to BYU? I think that he would rather give them the money if it means screwing his sleazy Bro-in-law. The only thing that didn't quite ring true was Selma's being rather easily flipped. She has been a murderous thug and, unless she suddenly had problems with Hollis' implementation of The Principle, it seemed a bit odd.

If so, Harry Dean Stanton had a great run on the show. If J.J. does make a move to take over, it will be fun to watch Zelko Ivanik. He's one of the best working actors around and has been on many major TV shows over the past few years (as well as movies and the stage).

Ditto on Zeljko Ivanek!

So now we have the new Church of Bill? Did he withdraw his offer of the perpetual donation to BYU? I think that he would rather give them the money if it means screwing his sleazy Bro-in-law. The only thing that didn't quite ring true was Selma's being rather easily flipped. She has been a murderous thug and, unless she suddenly had problems with Hollis' implementation of The Principle, it seemed a bit odd.

The way I understood it, was that in order to get the money they would have to overrule his brother-in-law in the casino deal and then the perpetual donation would be funded by 5% of the profits of the casino. The leaders went for it and made the loan issues go away and the brother-in-law had nothing to stand on and was made to look like a fool and petty to the church. In other words, Bill beat him at his own game with his own people. Nice move on Bill's part.

As far as the Church of Bill, could this be the start of another compound? Bill's Grandfather was overthown by the Grant's you know. Interesting turn if it goes that way and the money from casino would guarantee perpetual income. OOOHHH, possibilities!

NOT from Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the Top of the 'HDTV Programming' Page (too many spoilers):

Critic's Notes
Bless this 'Big Love' mess
Sunday's episode caps a season delving deep into the characters' complicated hearts
By Mary McNamara, Los Angeles Times - March 23, 2009

HBO's Emmy-free and too long under-appreciated “Big Love” came out of its yearlong, writers-strike-created hiatus like the buffed-up guy tired of eating sand.

But instead of going for fireballs and kidnappings (OK, there were a few of those, but they were totally incidental), cancer scares and intra-cast murder attempts (well, yes, there were those too, but again, not the point), creators Mark V. Olsen and Will Scheffer took their strange and startling American fable to new heights, and depths.

All of which came to a DefCon 1 "conclusion" in the season finale Sunday night. Oh, there were several moments of "closure" in the final minutes, but that was just the writers handing a bit of narrative Xanax to keep viewers from developing unsightly nervous tics while they wait to see what will really happen next season.

And not just in terms of plot. "Big Love" has become richer in tone and message. What had been quaint -- the mob-like machinations of the compound at Juniper Creek -- grew dark and murderous; what had been solid and structured -- the Henricksons' prefab polygamous corner of the universe -- collapsed into chaos.

While last season examined the complexities of marriage and family and love, this season dealt more with the separate, perplexing and often lonely lives each one of us leads amid all the noise and haste of modern daily life.

In episode after episode, the writers and actors pried apart the multihued twist of characters with the precision of bomb squad technicians. Margene (Ginnifer Goodwin) moved from arm candy to entrepreneur; Barb (Jeanne Tripplehorn) admitted her deep attachment to church and community even over the bonds of family; Sarah (Amanda Seyfried) had a miscarriage and teetered on the verge of collapse before righting herself.

And Nicki (Chloe Sevigny), poor Nicki, the buttoned-down sociopath everyone has loved to hate. Finally she, and we, came to grips with what lurked beneath it all -- she was born to parents with "murder in their hearts," parents who forced her to give up a child in a desperate attempt to flee the compound. Meanwhile, Bill (Bill Paxton) watched the fortress of women he had so carefully constructed around him morph into an opposing army of righteous indignation.

It wasn't a perfect season. The story line involving Ana (Branka Katic) joining the family as a fourth wife fizzled into the world's quickest divorce -- she just walked out of the house never to be seen again. A reprise of the sexual tension between eldest son Benny (Douglas Smith) and Margene was a dud, and Teenie (Jolean Wejbe) seems to have just vanished into thin air.

Even so, "Big Love" is like no other show on television, possibly ever, and polygamy, though fascinating, is not the reason. Instead, it simply provides the odd and irregularly sized frame, the only thing big enough to accommodate a portrait so complicated that, left to its own devices, it would soon claim the entire wall, the entire room.

Where else do you see characters regularly engaged in sincere and supplicant prayer? What other show respectfully portrays the soul-rattling fear that a transgression from religious belief can cause in a modern American? Where else are the power struggles of marriage examined without apology or laugh track, or the contrast between male and female friendship portrayed without sentimentality or agenda?

What other show consistently examines the sticky and complicated mess of love and fear, loyalty and ennui, generosity and spite that holds most families together?

Oh, and it was nice to see Harry Dean Stanton pick up a guitar again, if only for a minute.

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/ny-etlove0323,0,6532950.story?track=rss

Last night's season finale was a terrific ending to a terrific season. Big Love is one of the best, if not the very best, series on television. If Harry Dean Stanton's Roman Grant really is dead, it will be interesting to see Zeljko Ivanek's JJ, who will apparently be trying to replace Roman as the compound's maximum leader. Ivanek received a well deserved Emmy for his performance as the doomed lawyer, Ray Fiske, in last season's Damages. He is really good.

I have thought every week that Nikki could not become more complex and more puzzling but she always manages to do it. As sociopathic and filled with self hatred as she is, she surprised me when -- for once -- she stepped up, accepted responsibility, and brought her long abandoned 14 year old daughter home with her. Maybe there is hope for Nikki yet -- nah. :)

Some questions about next season:

Did Albie record his plotting of their parents' murder with Nikki? If so, then she will back into even more trouble with the DA.

If Roman is dead and Albie clearly tied to the attempt on his mother then who is left to run Juniper Creek? Perhaps Bill's father or JJ?

The Green's are 10x scarier to me than Roman. They will make a great nemesis for the Hendricksons. Will they find a way to implicate Bill in the document fraud?

Will Margie end up being more successful than Bill? Will the family have to turn to her to fund their new church?

When Alby and his wife were making the bomb, my wife and I were dying. Laura is almost as vicious as the Greenes. It was pretty funny but that looked like a good sized block of C4 that she was tinkering with. Wouldn't that pretty much have blown up the entire floor if not a good part of the building? Certainly nobody close to the explosion would have survived or even been in one piece one would think.

After Bill's fall in the barn, I've been thinking he will believe he is to be prophet. Now here he is "taking the keys" of the kingdom and taking that position at least among his family. With Alby and Roman gone, I wonder if Bill may make a move to control the UEB. I can't see him moving to the compound, but I can see him taking control.

And don't you think JJ has legal custody of Nicki's daughter? She and Barb could be looking at a kidnapping charge there.

It's going to be a long year waiting for next season....

After Bill's fall in the barn, I've been thinking he will believe he is to be prophet. Now here he is "taking the keys" of the kingdom and taking that position at least among his family. With Alby and Roman gone, I wonder if Bill may make a move to control the UEB. I can't see him moving to the compound, but I can see him taking control.

And don't you think JJ has legal custody of Nicki's daughter? She and Barb could be looking at a kidnapping charge there.

It's going to be a long year waiting for next season....

No I think it's what Roman told him about taking control that led to that.

We don't know if they stole Nicki's daughter or if she is only visiting. They gave no indication of kidnapping.

I agree it's going to be a long year. Hopefully there won't be any more strikes to delay things.

Looks like the show took on the Mark Hoffman twist:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon322.htm

My take is the writers don't believe prophets exist?

No I think it's what Roman told him about taking control that led to that.

We don't know if they stole Nicki's daughter or if she is only visiting. They gave no indication of kidnapping.


How old is she again? If she's 14 or older she can legally choose which parent she wants to live with. She might have wanted to leave with Nikki?

What ever happen to Teenie Henrickson? Only saw her at the beginning of the season. Did her parents send her away for the penthouse incident. LOL...

Teenie was last seen prominently in the 'road trip' episode when the Hendrickson's went to New York. Remember Teenie found the note Ben wrote Margene after he saw her naked in their hotel room. The L.A. Times review above laments that the character was practically invisible this season compared with the previous two.

What ever happen to Teenie Henrickson? Only saw her at the beginning of the season. Did her parents send her away for the penthouse incident. LOL...
I was going to ask the same thing. She was missing from the (new) family shot at the end.

A whirl wind wrap up to the season. A great job, albeit somewhat frenetic. Plenty of material we know about already as subject matter for seasons to come. If Harry Dean is really dead, I'll miss him next season.

larry

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the HDTV Programming page:

Q&A
'Big Love': Q&A with co-creator Will Scheffer
By Allyssa Lee, Los Angeles Times - March 30, 2009

Those suffering from "Big Love" withdrawl, take heart: The writers have already started prepping for Season 4. And while its January premiere date is still a ways away, Will Scheffer (a creator of the series, along with Mark V. Olsen) was gracious enough to talk to us about the shocking Season 3 finale, answer some burning questions (where was Teenie?) and give us a taste of what to expect next year.

Is Roman really dead?
Roman is 100% absolutely completely dead. There’s no trick in terms of, he was pretending to be dead, or it was a hallucination. He is gone. His spirit has left the earth. ... No one can bring him back from the dead. But I think that doesn’t take away from the impact of what his loss is going to mean to our characters. What the loss of a father means to Alby, and to Nicki, and what the loss of that antagonism means to Bill, our main protagonist.

What kinds of responses are you getting to his death?
I figured some people would respect us for a bold choice, but that most of the fan base would be furious, because he really is a beloved, you know? He’s Harry Dean Stanton, he’s nothing short of superb. I thought people were going to really be spitting on us on the street. Not that we get out on the street that much. But from reading the boards, I haven’t seen a lot of real heinous anger at us. Yet.

What was the thought behind Joey killing him off?
As we get further and further into this series, we knew that we had to really make bold choices for all of our characters. Some of them had to kind of be the same but change, but some of them can really make big changes, and Joey was someone who we thought needed that. He needed to be put on a course of action that was going to take him in a whole new direction. And we felt he certainly had the most vengeful heart with Roman for what he did to Kathy. And if we took him all the way there, who knows what’s going to happen next year? He could end up throwing his hat into the compound ring, you know, along with Alby. And J.J., now, is another antagonist. And we just thought it was time for him to have a fall from grace.

The kiss Roman gave to Bill in the season ender was powerful, if a bit ambiguous. Was he handing over his power?
Well, I think it was certainly a large enough gesture that it had to contain some ambiguity, but I think that there was a sense of — if not handing over to Bill the prophethood, at least goading Bill into trying to understand how Roman ruled as a prophet. And I think the kiss was a way to shock Bill, it was an act of kind of like a Zen teacher would shock a student into awareness. And I think that gesture was intimacy, but scary intimacy that Roman used to teach how Bill might become a prophet in his own right. And as it related to the whole, I definitely think they had a father-son relationship, and Roman had tried to supplant Bill’s grandfather — certainly by murdering him, and then by being a figure in Bill’s life. Perhaps Roman felt like Bill was the only person that could really rule after him.

How hard was it to say goodbye to Harry Dean Stanton?
It’s impossible to say goodbye to him. … Harry would call me every day when we were in production to work on his character and to really go over the script. And when we first started doing the show, I was like, “Jesus Christ, is this guy going to call me every day?” And then by the third season, it was like, well, abso ... lutely he’s going to call me every day, and I’m going to love it! So it became a highlight of my day. Harry can be really really persnickety — I don’t know if that’s the right word. But he can be really challenging. And that challenge was something that I learned to absolutely cherish in this relationship with him. We would fight, and we would scream at each other, and he would be right, and I would be right, and we’d always tell each other when the other person was right, and it was a beautiful relationship. We’ll miss him more than anyone can know.

Did you make it a point it to include Stanton’s real-life interests into the character?
Absolutely. There were things that Harry brought to us, that were a part of his psyche and soul that we wanted to incorporate into his character. … His love of game shows, and his love of guitars and singing. We really wanted to have him physically singing. And his whole spirituality — the other part that was such a great joy of working with Harry is that he wanted to talk philosophy, all the time. And incorporate it into his character. And so all those issues of spirituality, philosophy, music — and game shows too — were part of the constant dialogue with him. And I think made him able to invest so much of himself in the character.

Loved how he sang “Cancion Mixteca” in the last episode.
We actually filmed him singing the whole song, and we did two takes of it, singing from beginning to end, so I think it’ll be part of the DVD, hopefully.

What happened to Teenie at the end of the season? She wasn’t in the final scene with the family in the backyard, and it seemed like she just disappeared from view.
We didn’t clarify where Teenie was. But in our minds, she had gone to live with Ellen Burstyn’s character. It was a part of her juvenile delinquency. She was becoming this very specific awkward teenager. We first thought that we’d be able to dramatize that through the season more, and we just weren’t able to do that. We had too many things going on. We wanted to have it be sort of that her parents were fed up and were trying to send her away, and we did have lines of dialogue about her having to live with her grandmother. So when we left her out of the sacrament at the end of season finale, we were doing so on purpose. But all of that happens off-screen without any explanation. We will deal with that this coming season.

Is fourth wife Ana (Branka Katic) coming back next season?
That’s a rumor. Ana is someone I think deserves to come back into the life of the family, but there’s not a guarantee that it will be in the fourth season.

Katic herself said she was returning.
I talked to Branka, and I said you’re definitely going to come back either this season or in a later season. We want you to come back. And then what happens is we don’t always have a completely planned-out season when we go into the writers’ room. If we come up with a premise that’s going to take us through this next year, and it relates somehow to Ana coming back into the family to cause trouble or to dramatize that theme, then she’ll definitely come back, you know what I mean? It really has to do with whether our stories or characters are going to be able to harnessed to a theme that we’re exploring.

What are some of the themes that you’ll be exploring next season?
One theme that Mark [V. Olsen] is really interested in exploring is more of just the power dynamics or power struggles between men and women, as they relate to our family and the patriarchy, the compound — and the more evil power that goes on there — and the Mormon church, which has a very specific idea as to how women and men should operate in marriage. We already visited going further into the idea of the subjugation of women. And that will get refined to a kind of specific theme that is different from last year, and that tries to go very very deep.

Does this deal with any particular wife?
We definitely have a story for Margene that’s going to fight up against that notion somehow. We also know that Nicki’s relationship with her ex-husband is going to be able to be harnessed into that particular theme, and we know that we’re going to explore some dynamics of vis-à-vis the Mormon church and marriage that kind of is harnessed into that territory.

So Nicki’s ex-husband J.J. is coming back and will be a pretty big presence in this upcoming season?
Yes.

So Zeljko Ivanek is coming back as a regular?
Yes.

People were a bit concerned about Alby. How’s he doing?
Alby definitely lives through the flames that he created for himself. But he’s going to be scarred by that. And I’m not talking about just a superficial scar. We always felt that our plan was for him to come back from that attempted murder that turned into an accident against himself with some sort of renewed energy and ambition. And different colors that we haven’t seen from him. And I’m not just talking about maybe dark colors but also some other colors that happened to someone as they deal with that kind of life or death experience.

What about his latent homosexual “proclivities”?
Our plan is to explore those proclivities deeper this year.

You got a lot of press about your depiction of a Mormon temple ceremony before the episode even aired. What was the reaction like afterwards?
It was very interesting, because I think the furor died down very quickly. There were a lot of people, first of all, the general response, the non-Mormon, non-conservative religious response was very very positive, because we did what we really said in our statement, we were trying to create a moment of great beauty and great art. Now, it could be debated whether or not the Mormons are always going to feel that we crossed a boundary by showing a secret ceremony. And that’s always going to feel like it’s a tremendous disrespect to them. I don’t think that that’s going to change. … The real thing was that the furor died down almost immediately, and I only have to assume that was because we handled it with so much respect and dignity, in context of it being a very sacred, very holy ceremony.

Are there plans for any more of that?
I don’t know that we’ll need to go into the temple again. Not to say that we’re not going to go to other places within the Mormon world and within the fundamentalist world. And within the world of family and America that are equally challenging, in some way, for certain people.

How do you feel, touching upon some very hot-button issues?
It's really strange, I have to say. … Part of our initial schematic was that we were going to explore the American family in relationship to marriage, to religion, to culture. It wasn’t an agenda, so much as a response to the way that certain people in America felt they could define families that weren’t traditional. So we started there, and we definitely started before Prop. 8, and we definitely mapped out Season 3 before Prop 8, so that we were almost finished shooting before Prop 8 really became an issue. We didn’t foresee that. We’re not that much of visionaries that we foresaw that. We didn’t foresee Warren Jeffs, and Texas, but I have to say that I think that Mark had an intuition of some sort that this was going to be material that was going to be right on the line of what was happening in American culture. And he brought me to that understanding, and we were able to together really develop the show as one of those lightning rods of what was going on in America at this current moment. So the fact that things have overlapped or proceeded us, ultimately, it is interesting and weird and yes, surprising. But in some ways, looking back on it all, I think wow, that was a prescient idea, if not a visionary one.

Is it frustrating, after all the critical acclaim, to be overlooked come awards season? Or is putting out a great show its own reward?
Well, you know, people say, oh, it’s about the work, it’s about the work, and I don’t care about awards, but to me that’s always been a very superficial answer. Yes, we’re frustrated, and hurt. But I think that ultimately the answer about it being about the work is what you have to cleave to, because we love our job and we love the people we work with. Maybe other people get to win awards while we have a nice life while we create art. [Laughs] But yes, ultimately yes, if we don’t get nominated during Emmy season, it will be a blow to us, and I think it will feel like an injustice, and I think it won’t be our job to rail against the TV academy, but I hope some people do for us. But yeah, it will feel ultimately, like a great sin of omission.

So one last time: Roman is really and truly dead?
[Long pause] The only way that I can say it, and you can read into it what you will: There’s no way that Roman Grant didn’t die in that bedroom. He is dead. There’s no one that’s going to be able to raise him from the dead. He is …dead. That’s all I’m going to say.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2009/03/big-love-big-questions-and-big-answers.html

Here's another L.A. Times article dealing exclusively with how it was decided that Harry Dean Stanton's Roman character had to go: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-harry-dean-stanton31-2009mar31,0,5286735.story.

So Roman's coming back as a ghost. Got it.

Now Roman and Warren 'GTO' Oates can 'do that' (which they previously couldn't). ;):D

No Spoilers

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I haven't seen season 3 yet so I'm going to hold off on really reading this thread. Season 1 and season 2 were on demand (Comcast) so I watched every episode until season 3. I've seen a couple spoilers like his wives situation (new addition to the family) and Roman's fate. Other than that I'm completely oblivious. Hopefully season 3 will be on demand soon so I can get up to date on all the episodes. HBO really is one of the best channels ever.

One thing I do want to get off my chest is that Bill doesn't deserve Barbara at all. He constantly takes her for granted and yet she still bends over backwards for him. I wish should would leave him. Barbara was the first character I connected to on the show. Bill takes on these goals and they seem to always cause problems for Barbara. I've noticed that she really is the glue that keeps this family together.