I attached my tvfool analysis. I bought a new Winegard 7697 antenna to put in the attic. I also purchased a new Winegard AP-8700 pre-amp. I plan to hang it from the rafters in the attic and point it at +/- 125 degrees. My roof is plywood (7/16") and asphalt shingles.

Will this setup work? Now I'm thinking I may have bought too big of an antenna but I'm getting different results from TV Fool vs. antennaweb.net.

How about the attic setup. I will only have one 50" Plasma HDTV hooked up to it. The HDTV has a built in tuner.

If the antenna is too big, do you think I could get by with the Winegard 7694 or 96? It is much smaller. Thanks!!

well for some reason its not letting me include the attachment from tvfool

post 3

here is the link to my tv fool analysis

http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/MTMiller5782/?action=view&current=Radar-All2.png

I attached my tvfool analysis. I bought a new Winegard 7697 antenna to put in the attic. I also purchased a new Winegard AP-8700 pre-amp. I plan to hang it from the rafters in the attic and point it at +/- 125 degrees. My roof is plywood (7/16") and asphalt shingles.

Will this setup work? Now I'm thinking I may have bought too big of an antenna but I'm getting different results from TV Fool vs. antennaweb.net.

How about the attic setup. I will only have one 50" Plasma HDTV hooked up to it. The HDTV has a built in tuner.

If the antenna is too big, do you think I could get by with the Winegard 7694 or 96? It is much smaller. Thanks!!

Did you try the antenna without the amp? Your power levels are not "THAT" high, but it may overload a tuner....

Your aim of 125, should be pretty close, fine tune it from there as maybe needed....

What channels are you currently getting?

thanks for helping gjvrieze. I should clarify that I haven't installed anything yet. I ordered the equipment and its on the way. I want to install it this weekend. I just hope I ordered something that will work good. I should have found this site sooner.

Should I install the pre-amp to begin with or just what happens with the antenna? I hope the Winegard 7697 will pull in the signal in the attic.

thanks for helping gjvrieze. I should clarify that I haven't installed anything yet. I ordered the equipment and its on the way. I want to install it this weekend. I just hope I ordered something that will work good. I should have found this site sooner.

Should I install the pre-amp to begin with or just see what happens with the antenna first? I hope the Winegard 7697 will pull in the signal in the attic.

MTMiller, you selected an outstanding combo antenna in the 7697. I am concerned that you will have difficulty getting an antenna this size up into your attic and properly aiming the antenna. My signal strengths are very similar to yours and our locals are the same (30 miles) or further away (45 miles). I'm able to receive all my locals with a 4-bay DIY antenna in the attic. The antenna feeds two HDTV's with a single 2-way splitter and about 120 ft of cable run. I do not currently use an amplifier. IMO, the AP 8700 is way too much amplifier for your particular situation. I definitely would try it first without the pre-amp. IMO, the Winegard HDP269 is a better pre-amp for your situation (if one is used at all).

HTH.

Rick

thanks for helping gjvrieze. I should clarify that I haven't installed anything yet. I ordered the equipment and its on the way. I want to install it this weekend. I just hope I ordered something that will work good. I should have found this site sooner.

Should I install the pre-amp to begin with or just see what happens with the antenna first? I hope the Winegard 7697 will pull in the signal in the attic.

Ah, I was not sure reading your post, if you had an existing install or not...

I would not install the preamp first and see what you get, I doubt that it is needed, maybe like IDRick says, the HD269 would work better..... Test it out and see what works the best, the roof does cut the signals down, so the amp, might keep them strong enough for the cable runs....

Thanks Rick. I will try my setup without the pre-amp first and see what happens. I will just have to try the antenna and see if it will fit up in the attic. It may be tight.

Will it mess up the antenna if any of the elements touch wood? I will have to point it right at a corner of the attic where the roof joists meet. The tip should be at least 5' away though.

Touching wood has not affected signal strength or quality with my 4-bay but it is probably best to avoid. The 7697 is a great antenna but I would probably recommend a smaller antenna if you didn't already have one on the way. Gain increases with size in the 769x series and beam width decreases. You would have a bit more flexibility in aiming your antenna in the attic with a shorter antenna plus wider beam width.

Thanks Rick....that makes sense to me know. Luckily it is completely returnable if it doesn't work out. I will let you know.

Please do post back to the forum! It is very helpful to read success stories and/or challenges with antenna installation and tv reception. Gain specs tell you part of the story. Real world experiences tell you much more than simple gain spec tables.

All the best and may your installation be smooth and problem free!

Rick

Thanks I'll make sure to post my results as long as I can get the 131" monster up there to the attic. I can't wait to install it this weekend.

Well I installed my antenna today but I'm not happy with the results.

I'm getting only 50% strength on all major networks.

The Winegard HD7697 is a tight fit in the attic. Unfortunately at 125 degrees the antenna is pointing right toward the corner of the roof where their is a lot of wood. I'm not sure what to try next. It does have some wood approximately 2' in front of the antenna. I'm wondering it that could be the problem.

Should I try to return the antenna and purchase something else for the attic?

I haven't tried the pre-amp yet. Could that boost the strength up from 50%. Right now it is just 100' of RG6 QS. No splitters.

Hey MT,

Whew, big job getting that antenna up in the attic... Sorry to hear that the results were not quite what you hoped... Can you post some pictures so we can see what your up against in the attic? Can you give us dimensions of the attic space? Tell us about your fascia and soffits, is it all wood or is it covered with aluminum? If aluminum, is the antenna LOS above the aluminum? What is on the other side of the corner at 125 degrees? Is this corner above the roof line of your neighbors home?

You are losing about 5 to 6 dB with your 100 ft cable run. A pre-amp would give you a small boost in signal strength.

Best,

Rick

Thanks again Rick. I have been moving it around a little more and I've gotten a few of the signals up to 68%. Most of the signals are real good one second and real bad the next. When they come in, it is an awesome picture in HD. I'm watching the bowl game now and its coming in around 70%.

My roof and soffits are all wood (no aluminum at all). One of the channels 2.1,2.2 dropped off though - can't get any signal on them now. The antenna is mounted about 3 feet off the attic floor. My neighbors roof is about 50' away and it is lower than mine. No other obstructions on the other side of the roof.

I'll post pics tomorrow because its gotten dark now. Maybe the pre-amp would help but I kind of hate to open the 8700 because it would make it hard to return. Maybe when you see the pics you can tell if you think I need to send the 7697 back and try something a little smaller. I sure wish I would have found this website before I ordered. I really appreciate all of the help.

- Michael

Hey Michael,

I'm watching the game too... Go Gators! Nice reward for all your efforts to see the game in OTA HD! :)

Good info, thanks for answering questions. Pictures tomorrow will help us evaluate as well. Agree about holding off opening the pre-amp. View the pre-amp as covering distribution losses and giving some headroom. Finding the best positioning of the antenna is most critical aspect for right now.

BTW, what do locals say about WSB OTA? Pretty reliable? Is it broadcasting at it's final location and power or is it at a temporary location/lower power?

Best,

Rick

Rick,

Thats exactly what I was going to ask you about. See WSB is broadcasting digital right now on channel 2.1,2.1.

After the switch in February I wonder which station they will move to.

The Winegard 7697 is tuned for channels 7-69. I wonder if this is why I'm not getting a better signal on 2.1,2.2 right now and if it will get better next month.

I'm going to post some pics as soon as I can and play around with the location a little more tonight. If I can't get better than 80% from the majors with the pre-amp, I may see about exchanging it for a 7694 or 7695 and mounting that outside the house.

Your tv displays 2.1 but WSB is broadcasting on UHF channel 39 presently and will remain on the same UHF channel post transition. Tvfool may not be current if there are temporary changes in broadcast location and/or power levels. I suggest sending an e-mail to the broadcast engineer at WSB and asking about their situation. Also, I suggest going to the local reception forum and finding the thread for the Atlanta and asking there or search for issues with WSB. The url is: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=45

The Winegard 769x series covers the correct frequency range for Atlanta. Both of your current low-VHF analog stations (WSB-2 ABC and WAGA-5 FOX) are now using UHF for digital (39 and 27 respectively), and both will stay UHF.

You also have two high-VHF analog stations (WGTV-8 PBS and WXIA-11 NBC) which are now using high VHF for digital (12 and 10 respectively) and will stay high VHF, with WGTV moving its digital signal to 8 after it shuts down the analog signal.

Hi, Michael. Rick asked me to stop by for a look-see... With an HD-7697, line of sight, TVFool noise margins like that and one receiver, the Atlanta stations should be booming in with no amplification. Some observations and suggestions:

* Wooden surfaces aren't an issue unless the antenna is actually touching them or, worse, some of the elements are distorted up against the wood. I've got an attic-installed VHF-high rig with the front end of the boom much closer to a rafter than 2 feet, and have no issues with it.

* What was used to lash the antenna to the rafters? Nylon or natural-fiber string, twine or rope is best; metal wire or cable might interfere with antenna function.

* Is the antenna pointed correctly? The vertical UHF corner reflector should be "open" toward the signals @ 125 degrees. If not, the antenna is installed backwards. This is a very common error.

* Are the antenna boom and elements close to level? Tilting the boom upward a couple of degrees from back to front won't hurt anything. Avoid tilting the boom downward. The elements on both sides of the boom should always be level; stand directly in front of either end of the boom to check for this.

* How about roofing materials? Asphalt shingles aren't much of a problem, but tiles or standing-seam steel or copper block signals.

* Does the roof have a radiant barrier, common to newer construction in your part of the country? Made of aluminum, these barriers block convection, conduction... and radio signals.

* Coax cable/connector damage can cause symptoms like this. Check for pinches, permanent kinks, outer-jacket punctures, etc.

* Run the downlead as straight as possible. If there's any slack because the run was less than 100 feet, don't leave any of it coiled up. Coiling might cause issues with some channels. Run the lead in a broad curve around the attic if necessary.

Thanks, these are all great tips. I'm going to take photos this evening to post.

My cable is RG-6 QS with Compression Connections. The cable length only needs to be about 25' - 50' but I have it temporary ran straight from the attic to my HDTV and I'm using the full 100' run. It is coiled up substantially since its a temporary connection so I'll have to staigthen it out.

I do have one or two elements touching wood so I'll check that as well.

I have a Winegard AP-8700 pre-amp new in the box but I haven't hooked it up yet. I'm thinking I'll try that this evening as well.

The antenna is hung from the rafters at the front and back by mason's twine.

I'll have to double check to make sure it is level. I think I have it really close. I have all asphalt shingles and the roof does not have a metal radiant barrier. I've had to replace some of the shingles and its just tar paper below.

I'm using a good magnetic compass to point the antenna to 120 - 130 degrees. I believe it is pointed correctly by the pictures in the owners manual.

One thing to note is the descripancy in the signal at my address between tvfool and antennaweb. Antennaweb says I have blues and violets and need a large directional antenna while tvfool shows many signals in the green to red range. When I ordered the antenna, a went with the antennaweb recommendation because it was the most conservative.

I'm sure glad to get all of this help. I'm sure we will figure it out.

Well here is a link to some photos to show what I'm dealing with in the attic.

http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/MTMiller5782/


When I got home I unwound the coax and that helped the signals about 10% right away (thanks for the tip Don).

I decided to go ahead and try the winegard ap 8700 pre-amp and reposition the antenna a little bit (moved it up closer to the corner of the roof a little).

Here are my results so far:

WSB 2.1 = 90%
WSB 2.2 = 92%

WRCB 3.1 = 32%
WRCB 3.2 = 30% (Don't really care about these - don't know what they are)

Fox 5.1 = 70-90% (signal is very clear but strength is moving around)
Fox 5.2 = Same as 5.1

WXIA 11.1 = 71%
WXIA 11.2 = 71%

ION 14.1 = 100%
QUBO 14.2 = 100%
ION Life 14.3 = 92%
14.4 = 92%

Peachtree 17.1 = 40-70% (signal ok but not great - goes in and out)

GPB 18.1 = 85% looks good but background noise present

WPBA 30.1 = about 50% comes in and out

34.1 = 65%
34.2 = 60%

WATL 36.1 = 88%

WGCL 46.1 = 75-95%

WATC 57.1 = 85%

WUPA 69.1 = 75%

I would like to improve the signals a little more if possible. Some of the good networks are breaking up. Picture will be perfect one second and then go out and come back in again. Anything else I can try? What is a good solid signal strength?

Tomorrow I will cut the 100' coax down to about 30' for the permanent wiring. I'm hoping the smaller run will help the signal too.

I believe I have the antenna pointed about 135 degrees now. It is highly sensitive. A little move and the signal jumps all around.

I'd really like to achieve 85% or better on all the major networks. I'm wondering if a smaller antenna would help so it would have a wider beam instead of a strong narrow one. Anyone have any recommendations. I'm 30 miles north of atlanta and the terrain is fairly hilly. Antennaweb says I need an antenna for blue and violet but tv fool is showing my address getting pretty strong signals.

Thanks for all the help!!

Michael

Thanks for stopping by Don M!

From the primer: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

Attic antennas

If an indoor antenna is not as reliable as you want, an attic antenna is the next step up. If you are in a neighborhood with moderately strong signals, an attic antenna might work. But you are wasting your time installing an attic antenna in a poor-signal neighborhood. Most successful attic antennas are within 20 miles of the transmitter. (30 miles often works if you are on a hillcrest.) The problems with attic antennas are:

1. The antenna might not be high enough above obstacles outside the house such as trees.
2. It is hard to estimate the signal loss caused by the wood and other construction materials.
3. Metal objects in the attic can block the signal.

Estimating the signal loss in ordinary construction materials requires knowledge of their water content. Exceptions are aluminum siding, stucco (which has an embedded metal screen), and foil-backed insulation, all of which totally block all signals. Concrete and most bricks have moderate water content, but their thickness is enough to block all signals. In a desert, plywood becomes so dry that it causes no signal loss at all, even for UHF. In any other place, there will be some moisture. Exterior wood is generally always wet inside, especially in north facing surfaces. (Paint does not prevent this.) The amount of water varies with the weather. Dry asphalt shingles are mostly transparent to TV signals, but the way they overlap encourages water to persist between them. The vapor barrier is often wet on one side or the other. The bottom line is that there is no way to predict the signal loss in these materials. It is usually a mistake to point an antenna through a surface that gets totally wet in rain.

Metals reflect signals. A metal object 8 inches long is big enough to reflect UHF. Smaller objects, such as nails, are of no concern. Wires and metal pipes effectively reflect VHF, as do plastic pipes containing water. If these reflecting objects are positioned to the side, to the rear, above, or below the antenna, they will have little effect on it, provided they are not too close. These objects should be further away than 2 feet for UHF, 4 feet for VHF-high, or 6 feet for VHF-low, and an even larger separation will help a little. (Some might wonder why these numbers are not proportional to the wavelength. It is because the lower frequency antennas are lower in gain. An antenna’s aperture depends on the gain as well as the wavelength.)

There should be no horizontal or diagonal wires or pipes in front of the antenna. A perfectly vertical metal vent pipe is invisible to TV signals, but its flashing at the roofline might not be.

yea I guess my signal may be about as good and its going to get without taking the antenna outside. I'll try the more permanent shorter coax wiring tomorrow and tweak the antenna a little more to see if I can get it any better. Any slight move and it makes a drastic difference it seems.

Is their another smaller antenna you would recommend that I could mount outside? I prefer the Winegards because they seem to be durable and they are made in the USA. I know the 7697 is probably a great antenna but it is hugh! My homeowners association will kill me if I mount it on my roof. I know I can legally mount it outside whether they like it or not but if another smaller antenna such as the 7694 would give me a good picture outside that would be helpful.

In theory I guess the 7694 outside would only have to be about 1/2 the strength of the 7697 in my attic to get the same signal since several articles state an attic reduces the signal up to 50%

- Michael

Michael,

Nice summary! Your hard work is paying off!

The signal strength values include the pre-amp, correct? Are you only feeding one tv or will feed multiple tvs? If more than one, tell us how many splitters, tvs, and length of cable run. By my calculation, your pre-amp is about right for an attic install but would be too strong if the antenna is out on the roof.

Should you go to a smaller antenna such as the 7694... Tough call. You've probably tweaked placement about as much as possible. Benefits of switching to smaller antenna are probably not very large... IMO, the smaller antenna probably would have worked as your initial antenna but probably not worth the effort to switch out.

Attic or roof. You really only have one vhf-high that is a "gotta have" and that is ch 10 (11.1, NBC). The other vhf-high is a repeat PBS and you're not picking that one up anyways... You're losing approximately 13 dB with an attic install. You could consider a Channel Master 4228 HD as a possibility for the roof. It has moderate gain in high vhf. In your case, there would be a net gain with a roof install in high vhf (difference in high vhf gain between antennas is less than the gain improvement with a roof install). If you go with a roof mount, I would suggest the 4228 HD (smaller than the 7694).

Don M is my "go-to guy" and I'm guessing he will be by soon to give his comments as well.

Best,

Rick

I doubt the homeowner's association is going to notice the difference between a 7694 and a 7697. Bringing it outside the attic will likely make a big difference; it's not just the loss though the attic walls but the various reflections indoors.

Thanks. What signal strengths are considered "good"? Is 85% a consistent good signal or do I need to try to get them in the 90's.

Rick I like the 4228 HD idea outside. I did go to the atlanta hdtv forum as you suggested and a lot of those guys have had good luck with the 4228 in the atlanta market. I like the smaller size too.

I'm going to play with it a little more today and make sure its as good as its going to get in the attic. I may move it one more time.

Good morning Michael,

It is great to have signal strengths in the 80's or better. In my case, one of my stations averages 53% and drops to mid 40's on bad reception days but no video dropouts and signal quality remains at 100%. It is a lower power station and would go up to the 70's if my antenna were on the roof.

Have a great day!

Rick

What signal strengths are considered "good"?

Different tuners use different scales. There's no standardization. The same station and antenna setup can produce different readings on different tuners, even though the frequency of dropouts is the same. On my Sony DVRs, anything above about 80% is usually good. On my old Hisense / US Digital box, 85% to 90% was the level I aimed for. On my Samsung DTB-H260F, four or five bars out of ten is usually enough.

With experience, you learn to correlate the % values on your tuner with the likelihood of dropouts.

Hi, Michael,

Yes, a CM 4228HD is probably a good bet. It's not as strong a VHF-high performer as the HD-7697, but UHF signal-pulling ability should be at least as good, if not better. Please see the attached spec sheet for details.

I'd strongly recommend mounting the 4228 outdoors given those lower VHF gain numbers; by doing so, you'll cancel out the attic losses you're experiencing now. Be aware it's a fairly heavy antenna susceptible to the wind, so please mount it on a steel mast and heavy-duty mast brackets secured to studs or other framing members underneath the siding.

An outdoor antenna mast needs proper grounding to keep Thor, God of Thunder at bay. A good guide can be found under "Grounding outdoor antennas" about three-quarters of the way down this page (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html).

Thanks Don. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'm just not happy with 60%-70% signal strength. The picture is not as clear as I would like for HDTV and the signal breaks up often. Drops out and sporatic spots on the screen every few seconds.

Looks like I'm probably going to box the 7697 back up and order a CM 4228HD to mount outside the house. I sure hope it works as it will be a lot of trouble to send the 7697 back to buy.com.

How about my pre-amp, the AP-8700. Should I keep it or send it back too. I will be splitting the main signal to 3 separate tv's in the future. It it will work with the CM 4228 I would like to keep it because they will charge me to ship it back and a restocking fee also.

Thanks,

Michael

Thanks Don. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'm just not happy with 60%-70% signal strength. The picture is not as clear as I would like for HDTV and the signal breaks up often. Drops out and sporatic spots on the screen every few seconds.

Looks like I'm probably going to box the 7697 back up and order a CM 4228HD to mount outside the house. I sure hope it works as it will be a lot of trouble to send the 7697 back to buy.com.

How about my pre-amp, the AP-8700. Should I keep it or send it back too. I will be splitting the main signal to 3 separate tv's in the future. It it will work with the CM 4228 I would like to keep it because they will charge me to ship it back and a restocking fee also.

Thanks,

Michael
I would keep the 8700, it is a good amp, not likely to overload even in strong signal areas, You could try with or without it and see which works better, but split 3 ways, an amp is almost always a good...

The AP 8700 would be a bit too strong with a rooftop mount and one tv. But, since you're splitting to 3 tvs, I'd say it a very good fit.

Hey Rick,

Any reason you don't think your original recommendation of the HDP-269 pre-amp would be a better fit? I'm thinking the "input" of the 8700 may be at risk for overloading with those signal strengths. Once the input of the pre-amp is overloaded, the damage is done, no matter how many TV's are connected. With a roof mounted antenna, I would personally go with the HDP-269 to be on the safe side.;)

Hey DR! Hope all is well with you and yours!

Can we do the math together? Michael has two high uhf stations (-36.2 dBm). According to Hol_land's table, the max input for two high uhf stations is -22.3 dBm with an AP 8700. Is there pre-amp overload?

Step 1 convert to peak power by adding 7 dBM (-36.2 + 7 = -29.2)
Step 2 add in antenna gain assume 12, (-29.2 + 12 = -17.2)
Step 3 subtract loss from attic install, assume 13, (-17.2-13 = -30.2 dbm).

By this quick calculation, potential overload is predicted with a roof install (-17.2 exceeds upper limit of -22.3) but not with an attic install.

What about overload at the tv tuner?

Step 1 add antenna gain (-36.2 + 12 = -24.2)
Step 2 add pre-amp gain (-24.2 + 19 = -5.2)
Step 3 Subtract attic loss (-5.2 -13 = -18.2)
Step 4 subtract cable loss assumed 150 ft (-18.2 -9 = -27.2)
Step 5 subtract 3-way splitter (-27.2-7.5 = -35.2)

Hol_lands suggests keeping the power level at the tv tuner below -10. Clearly, it is below this threshold with an attic install (-35.2) or a roof install (-35.2 +13 = -22.2).

The above was my thinking, that it would be okay at the tv tuner level with a roof install and an AP 8700. If Michael uses an HDP 269, he probably will also need to use a distribution amp to deliver adequate signal to all of his tvs.

**I should make this clear, DR is correct and I was in error by basing pre-amp decision on tv tuner level rather than considering input.

Best,

Rick

Well my wife and I boxed up the 7697 to send back.

As an experiment, I took the 7697 out on the back deck (approx 15' off the ground). I pointed it at approx. 130 degrees and the signal strengths on the tv were steady in the high 80's or 90's. Well some stations did jump around about on the signal strength my I contribute that to my unsteady arm holding a 131" long antenna up over my head with a 4' section of pvc pipe. Their is no doubt in my mind the attic was causing all the difficulty for me.

I don't understand all the numbers in the previous post but I'm glad I can hold onto the 8700 pre-amp. It would be a pain to send it back...they charge a restocking fee up to 40% and I would have to pay to ship it back. If it will work with the 4228hd I'll definitely keep it.

I may need some help on how best to mount the 4228. I don't want a tripod on the ridge of my roof so I'm left with either a chimney mount or wall mount. The eaves + gutters are approx. 18-20". Can I use 4" wall mounts on the side of the chimney? I don't care for the chimney straps and my chimney is wood frame w/ hardy plank board siding. I'm thinking that may be better than a 24" wall mount.

Also, what is the best place to buy the 4228hd from? If it doesn't pick up, I want somewhere with good customer service where I could return it.

Thanks for all the help and running those numbers.

-Michael

just thougtht of one more question. Where in the heck do I buy a steel mast?

I've been to radio shack and they only carry 8' (looked flimsy too). Went to home depot and lowe's and the guys looked at me like I was an alien when I asked for a antenna mast pole.

Guess everyone around here just pays for cable or satellite. Thanks Again.

- Michael

Hello Michael,

Solid Signal and Summit Source are two good internet sources. Not sure about their return policies though... Info is available on their websites.

According to my calculations, the AP 8700 will be okay in the attic but may cause pre-amp overload with a roof install. I suggest that you pm Hol_lands or make a post in the pre-amp sticky area. He's a communications engineer and has many posts on pre-amps plus has advised many, many people. As I understand it, pre-amp overload affects the dynamic range of a pre-amp and tends to affect reception of low power stations. In your case, the stations you desire are fairly close by and reasonably strong in signal strength. Slight overload may not impact performance with a roof install. Hol_lands is the pro on this issue though... I'd ask his opinion.


***OOPS, it is Holl_ands


Solid signal and summit source also sell good antenna masts or you purchase a pipe locally and use that.

Best,

Rick

Went to home depot and lowe's and the guys looked at me like I was an alien when I asked for a antenna mast pole.

Mast shipping gets pretty expensive. Ask the home center for a galvanized steel fence post used in chain-link fences. Lengths are 6, 8 and 10 feet, IIRC. Prolly much cheaper than an "antenna mast," and at least as tough.

If you are going outside with the antenna, make sure it is rock solid. If it waves around in the wind you may get signal dropout. I use a 3-point guy wire to keep the mast in place. If you use an actual antenna mast, it is pretty flimsy so you have to guy wire it to keep it in place.

If you have an stores locally that sell bigger antennas, they normally sell mast. Here I know Radio Shack, Home Depot, Menards sell them. Walmart used to a few years ago. Now when people might actually buy one, they no longer carry them.

Thanks, It looks like I might be getting a very good deal on last years CM 4228. It is $40 new in box. I hope it works because it will come out cheaper than the 7697 anyway.

It looks like my best best is mounting on the chimney. It is wood with hardyboard siding. Is their anything wrong with just screwing lag bolts directly into the wood studs of the chimney and using a 4" wall mount. I guess the next option is the chimney mount.

The fence post option sounds great. I was actually at Home Depot this evening and I saw some good piping in the electrical department. It was strong metal conduit (not the flexible type). It was very rigid and about $15 for a 10' section of 1-1/2".

Michael,

I don't know how well the chimney install would work... Many people have successfully used the straps over the years. If you can lag into some solid timber it likely will work.... Do you use the chimney? Soot from the fireplace can cause deterioration in the antenna and shorten useful life. Hopefully others will chime in.

Have you considered an eave mount? See: http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=RON4560 I like this design because it means no holes in the roof and it gets your antenna cable and ground wire already started down the side of the house. Most homes in my neighborhood are single or 1-1/2 story homes so works well. Bit dicier with a two story home, maybe not a good suggestion.

I did consider the eave mount but unfortunately there are not any eaves on my house. I have a hip roof like the one shown here -

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cwta.net/images/hip_roof.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.cwta.net/English/hip_roof.html&h=508&w=470&sz=76&tbnid=x0MAf_-16yTSrM::&tbnh=131&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhip%2Broof&usg=__Yqd2HqCq0Jqx8gt8WWfUbmHSdYk=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

I think my best best will be to use wall mounts on the chimney and make sure its secured to solid wood. We do use the fireplace but not real often...maybe 10 times per year.

Well I picked up the 4228 and some mast pole. Can't wait to try it out this evening.

I figured out a good way to mount it too after thinking about it for a while.

Great! Good luck and please post your results!

Best,

Rick

Well a very special thanks to Rick, Don, gjvrieze, jtbell, and all the other helpful members (sorry if I left you out :) - kind of in a hurry tonight) you guys are awesome!

I'm happy to report the CM 4228 (last years model not newer HD) is working perfectly. Anyone that wants one just contact this guy on E-Bay -

http://cgi.ebay.com/Channel-master-4228-UHF-HDTV-Antenna-New_W0QQitemZ370143561083QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain _0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116.

It's only $40 compared to $80 for the brand new model. Several people even like the older model better but thats still under a big debate which one is better. They are new in the box. I haven't mounted it permanent yet but its on a 10' mast pole tethered tightly to my deck with bungee straps. The permanent mount will take it up 42 - 48" higher so the signal may even get a little better then.

All my signal strengths are in the high 80's to 90's (most steady in 90's) and a few at 100% and holding steady. I'm using the Winegard AP-8700 preamp and a direct feed (no splitters) to my HDTV. The signal is awesome but the preamp may actually be boosting the signal too much...I'm not sure. The HD channels/shows are crystal clear but I can see a little bit of distortion and I believe it may be the pre-amp overloading the signal (or I'm just too damn picky more like it). When I mount it permanently with the 3 way splitter this will probably clear up too. 25' of RG-6 w/ no splitters = no pre-amp necessary.

I'm going to go enjoy my new HDTV and signal now thanks to all the good help here.

-Michael

Great news Michael! thanks for reporting! :)

All the best,

Rick