I think having allowed the dust settle a bit, I would like to ask the obvious question that I know several folks have asked themselves: Knowing what you now know or have experienced with the JVC RS-20/HD-750, would you purchase this unit/ again, and if not, what might be your first or second choice as an alternative ?
I just have to say that this unit, as a strong perspective buyer, is a disappointment from what was portrayed by JVC, and Lawguy so eloquently articulated the point. I feel bad for Mike, Kutlow especially, and others in what they have gone through. Tom feels that color and other aspects of this unit are still superior to the RS-1/2, and that's good to hear ! I feel like I might owe SOWK an apology as I may have been to rough on him pronouncing the RS-20 (paraphrasing) as a little better (but not a big jump) than RS-1/2, but not a leap (time may possibly say otherwise, we can hope).
So I put the question out there for the forum. If this is a place for venting, so be it, but maybe limit the vitrol.;) (there may be women and children listening !)

At this point no question I would buy it again with what else is available at this price point today. If it ends up not being reliable that would alter my opinion, but so far mine has not been a problem.

We are picking nits. The RS20 is a great projector and a firmware revision away from being amazing.

I would still buy it.

In my own system I would not trade it for anything else I have seen at any price.

^
I agree 100%

I'm happy with mine so far but I'm a bit concerned about reliability. I would still buy it at this time.

I'm very happy with mine.

I feel like this unit is a great value. No issues with mine.

People who buy projectors before units have shipped might reasonably expect that some small problems will be identified and worked around. If you aren't that type of person, then you should only look for units that have been shipping for 3 months or more.

After reading the reviews of production RS-20s all I can say is thank goodness I trusted my own intuition and purchased a Panasonic PT-AE3000 for a 75% lower price, saving me thousands!!

At one point I had actually considered the hype that the RS-20 was the "holy grail" lol.

I feel like this unit is a great value. No issues with mine.

People who buy projectors before units have shipped might reasonably expect that some small problems will be identified and worked around. If you aren't that type of person, then you should only look for units that have been shipping for 3 months or more.

Ah, I think that this may be sage advice. ;)

These really are VERY positive responses.

I owned an RS-1, and have seen RS-2. Those with RS-20 as their first projector, or as first foray into DILA would have no second thoughts. Those with RS-2 could wait and see if RS30 (or whatever next model number is), compared to RS20, offers tighter convergence, better CMS, robust lens assembly, etc. Those with RS-1 should benefit from switch though not day-and-night or stratlingly superior, but an incremental improvement in my view (with limited experience thus far with RS20).

The RS20 is amazing. No question I'd do it again.

I received mine yesterday and am very happy.

For those with a RS2, like myself, getting a RadianceXD might be a better option than getting a RS20, if you just want Gamut corrections. Plus, you can use all the other benefits (CMS, etc) in a later display. I was really debating "upgrading" due to the CMS of the RS20, but from what I have read, a true 3D CMS is better than what the RS20 come with. I'm I off base with this reasoning?

I'm very happy with mine. Bright, extremely sharp, good color.

After reading the reviews of production RS-20s all I can say is thank goodness I trusted my own intuition and purchased a Panasonic PT-AE3000 for a 75% lower price, saving me thousands!

You need to be careful comparing prices, I don't think many are paying anything close to list price for the RS20. My friend down the block as an AE3000. He couldn't believe I was spending 2x more for a JVC. His AE3000 was so sharp and so bright that he thought it couldn't get much better.

Then he saw my RS20. He says my RS20 is brighter than is AE3000 (despite the AE3000 being specced much higher) and he's in awe of the blacks. He's used to a very visible gray background. I put up some test patterns (just a gray ramp and some convergence patterns). "My Panny can't do that!" (he didn't specify where the panny was less good).

He now understands why I got the RS20.

Yes, I'd buy it again.

For those with a RS2, like myself, getting a RadianceXD might be a better option than getting a RS20, if you just want Gamut corrections. Plus, you can use all the other benefits (CMS, etc) in a later display. I was really debating "upgrading" due to the CMS of the RS20, but from what I have read, a true 3D CMS is better than what the RS20 come with. I'm I off base with this reasoning?

I don't think I'd upgrade if I had an RS2 or even an RS1. IanB (RS1 owner) was down to see my RS20. The RS20 throws a better picture, but I don't get the impression it was a huge difference in real material. Get a processor to fix the color (if it bothers you) and be done with it.

Given all the reported lens shift problems (me included) with the initial wave of RS-20s, anyone who says they're not concernd about long-term reliability, is in denial. I frankly don't know what other alternatives are out there since I decided several months ago to go with the RS-20 based on the high expectations. While for the price, PQ may be outstanding, if the thing won't stay put together, what's it really worth.

Given all the reported lens shift problems (me included) with the initial wave of RS-20s, anyone who says they're not concernd about long-term reliability, is in denial. I frankly don't know what other alternatives are out there since I decided several months ago to go with the RS-20 based on the high expectations. While for the price, PQ may be outstanding, if the thing won't stay put together, what's it really worth.

If the lens shift is really a wide spread problem, that could mean a lot of "B-Stock" RS-20's which might be nice for people wanting to pick one up for even less. :)

I don't think I'd upgrade if I had an RS2 or even an RS1. IanB (RS1 owner) was down to see my RS20. The RS20 throws a better picture, but I don't get the impression it was a huge difference in real material. Get a processor to fix the color (if it bothers you) and be done with it.

In my case - the RS20 was a HUGE step up over my RS1. Mostly because of improved black level and elimination of bright corners. Although shading, greyscale and convergence are all better too. Not to mention quieter fan, NO light spill, motorized optics (eliminating sub shaking lens), anamorphic stretch, adjustable iris, and fairly accurate (now) THX mode. Did I mention that the RS20 was a HUGE step up from my RS1?:)

I don't think I'd upgrade if I had an RS2 or even an RS1. IanB (RS1 owner) was down to see my RS20. The RS20 throws a better picture, but I don't get the impression it was a huge difference in real material. Get a processor to fix the color (if it bothers you) and be done with it.

Upgrades are always a personal preference, but as an RS1 owner moving up to the RS20 it more than justifies the upgrade for me. People talk about the contrast improvement on the RS20 a lot (and for me it's over a 4x improvement from my no so hot RS1), but what really has me enamored with the RS20 is the fact that it fixes so many of the little things that came to bug me about the RS1. Shading errors are gone, bright corners are gone, focus and CA is better, etc. When I watch movies now I'm not seeing and being distracted by flaws and I can just enjoy the movie, which is something I haven't done in a while.

This is my first projector so I didn't have to consider upgrade costs, luckily. I had a 60" Pioneer Plasma before the RS20 in the movie room and was worried about the performance comparison between those two.

Well, I can't stand watching movies on the tv anymore. This projector is deeper, more enveloping and easier to watch than anything I've seen to date. Just wonderful.

Mines perfect so to worry about possible future issues is somewhat illogical. Shouldn't a manufacturer be graded on past performance as a measure of possible current product longevity? Everyone seems to introduce a new projector each year, that's what we all expect right? So shouldn't we expect the same reliable product from JVC as was expected in the past? That's why I bought it. A few stuck lens shift motors shouldn't put a black mark on a great product from a great company. Especially since they seem to be very accommodating by replacing, not just repairing, the affected units.

So, yes, I would buy it again in a second. Couldn't be happier.

"Given all the reported lens shift problems (me included) with the initial wave of RS-20s, anyone who says they're not concernd about long-term reliability, is in denial."

It's not clear whether the lens mechanism is short-lived in use or just susceptible to shipping damage, which could be cured w/better packaging.

brianlsu,
Can you describe in detail how the rs20 picture compares to the plasma picture?
Others : I'm really considering rs10 for my next pj (not made of money to get rs20). Is it somewhat comparable to rs20 or is it put to shame by it?

I owned an RS-1, and have seen RS-2. Those with RS-20 as their first projector, or as first foray into DILA would have no second thoughts. Those with RS-2 could wait and see if RS30 (or whatever next model number is), compared to RS20, offers tighter convergence, better CMS, robust lens assembly, etc. Those with RS-1 should benefit from switch though not day-and-night or stratlingly superior, but an incremental improvement in my view (with limited experience thus far with RS20).

I agree, I've seen the RS20/HD750 here in Japan a few times now, and though it throws a fantastic picture, I felt the upgrade was slight. The HD750 is sharper, that's what I really like about it other than the fantastic black level. I'm not too picky about color saturation so I'm sure I wouldnt have a problem with the CMS.

brianlsu,
Can you describe in detail how the rs20 picture compares to the plasma picture?
Others : I'm really considering rs10 for my next pj (not made of money to get rs20). Is it somewhat comparable to rs20 or is it put to shame by it?

My RS20 puts my PRO-151FD to shame.

The key thing is I find my wife and I watching everything possible on the RS20 and only using the 151FD when we need to be in the room where it is located. It is so much like the Arclight Cinema in LA it is scary.

brianlsu,
Can you describe in detail how the rs20 picture compares to the plasma picture?
Others : I'm really considering rs10 for my next pj (not made of money to get rs20). Is it somewhat comparable to rs20 or is it put to shame by it?

Sure. Now first, my Pioneer is a 6010 model, not a true 1080p. So take this for what it's worth.

Here's my take on good and bad.

The Bad.
1) I can't see what I'm eating sometimes with the projector.

2) I know I will have to change the bulb at some point and with the plasma, I won't have to think about it for 30 years.

3) The setups are totally different. With the plasma, I didn't worry about light at all except light that reflected off the glass screen. With the projector, I've spent a lot of time and money controlling all sources of light.

The Good.

1) I never realized how overblown my colors are on the plasma, I have to play with it a little more. With the projector, the colors are clean and vibrant but not overly done. Very pleasing to the eyes.

2) The projector is not as bright and I was initially worried about that before I bought it. I have since found that with proper light control the brightness is perfect. It's not as fatiguing to the eyes. For some reason I found with the plasma, with the size and close proximity, I felt motion sick at times and my eyes would be tired. I worried that with a 120" screen, this might exaggerate these conditions. It must have something to do with the tame brightness and colors. My eyes scan the screen, much like my plasma, but it's a very enjoyable experience. Just bliss and aw to have something that looks so good to be so large.

3) Black levels. When I compare the bars during a movie on the plasma vs. the projector they are identical. But the projectors black level does change based on the scene brightness. During dark scenes, the projector is actually better.

I went to Denver's CEDIA to look at projector's primarily to see if I should even try to upgrade from the plasma to a projector. When I saw the RS20, it gave me the wow factor. Right then I decided to do it and which projector to do it with. So, if you have a plasma and are thinking of getting a projector or better yet this projector, do it. Keep in mind though, the picture you get with a projector is only as good as the light control in the room. Something as small as light colored furniture make a difference. Strange, but true.

hmmmmmmmm do you really want to know? :mad: well if my problems were happening to a friend I would clearly steer him away with no doubt. But what keeps me in the game is the price point and the fact that nothing else compares at the current time. I got my first one on 22 Dec and by the time my 3rd arrives it will be one month later. If there is anything wrong with my 3rd unit I will probably wait for jvc to come out with a new model. In the meantime I would have to buy something cheap to get me by. I bought several Blueray titles already that were expensive and have come down and that alone would of saved me some dough. I am lost for words. You ever felt like crying?

If the lens shift is really a wide spread problem, that could mean a lot of "B-Stock" RS-20's which might be nice for people wanting to pick one up for even less. :)

I thought of the same thing. My new one gets shipped out overnite on Monday so with Gods Will I will be fine. Even though it is not my fault I am getting very embarrassed to call AVS WITH BROKEN UNITS.

^
I have a good feeling that 3rd time will be a charm:)

Damn kutlow, three!!!

I would have thrown in the towel by now, but like you said...what else do you get.

I had mine shipped 2 day, that might have helped, I don't know.

Can someone describe the problems that the RS20 is having. I am looking at projector as well. I have not read the owners thread, its too long and difficult to find information there.

I also decided to wait for the next model. I have the Pioneer HD-100-clone and am still very satisfied after about 4 months with this. Saw the HD-750 at a show and sure it looked really good but not to warrant an upgrade for me.

So how far is rs10 from rs20? Is it the next best pj to get? Do DLP's with their high ANSI compete with rs10 and rs20 in overall PQ despite lower on/off ?

Hi Wolvernole:

To respond to your initial question: I HOPE to be able to let you know in about 10 days!! It has finally shipped and the weekend after this one I expect to spend significant time checking it out. But as kyle76092 noted, yeah, I'm concerned about getting a fully functional unit...and about the long term reliability of the motorized lens functions, particularly given that I zoom for different types of content. We shall see.

In my theater, both the RS1 and RS2 made considerable fan noise from the projector loction (3-4 feet overhead at the back of the first row of seats). Fan noise was a distraction during any quiet scene...even on low power....and high power was out of the question.

The RS20 is basically inaudible in high power... even during quiet scenes. For me, this is a huge upgrade. With a slightly better picture (still uncalibrated) and now silent!!! it's a no brainer.

Let' see, upgrade from my Dreambee/HD1 to the HD750:

- brighter by 150 lumens
- black level halved -> thus more than twice the contrast
- quieter
- sharper
- no bright corners
- better convergence
- gamma configurable
- better colors through enhanced configurability
- less motion artifacts i.e. color fringing

Do I need to go on?
Yes I would do it again.

Short of a 3-chip DLP, In my view this projecotor is a great value. After having it calibrated and have a known DLP bias calibrator say he was impressed with the projector is saying alot as he has never complimented my other set-ups. I truly believe those who have bought this unit and not had it calibrated are truly missing out. My wife who could care less of any other the AV stuff we have even said after watching ablu-ray movie could not believe how good it looked.

Sports in HD are truly a treat, motion blur is a small issue but very small. To answer the question my upgrade was huge coming from a 720P Sony LCD, I am a happy guy.

My next upgrade will br in 4 to 5 years hopefully then 3-chip DLP or laser technology will be within my budget.

With a slightly better picture (still uncalibrated) and now silent!!! it's a no brainer.

This is what has kept myself, and I'm sure many others from upgrading from the RS1. I was expecting a more significant leap in PQ (in particular, black level).

^
The Black level improvement on my RS20 is NIGHT and DAY over my RS1. Even my wife and friends immediately noticed and were shocked at the improvement. This alone ...was worth the upgrade to me.

Now I'm not trying to get myself flamed here, but would any HD750 (RS20) owners consider that a HD350 (RS10) plus an external VP with CMS, would have been a better option, given the difficulty owners are having with the built in CMS? I didn't buy the HD350 as I didn't like the colours it made at the UK launch I went to and the 750 was more than I was willing to spend. However, given that I bought an AE3000, but I may have the chance of a used Lumagen with CMS, that I could use now. I may be tempted to upgrade to a 350 in future, especially if a good deal came up with a used one, with the credit crunch and all that. ;)

Now I'm not trying to get myself flamed here, but would any HD750 (RS20) owners consider that a HD350 (RS10) plus an external VP with CMS, would have been a better option, given the difficulty owners are having with the built in CMS?

I don't think so, the CMS sort of works for me and the 3 iris positions on the 350 really isn't enough.

This is what has kept myself, and I'm sure many others from upgrading from the RS1. I was expecting a more significant leap in PQ (in particular, black level).


Ooops..I should have been more clear. My RS2 (better PQ than the RS1 to me) was professionally ISF Calibrated and was jaw dropping to me. My uncalibrated RS20 is slighly better than that. Just waiting to put some bulb hours before I have it calibrated....which with the CMS, should make that
PQ leap even larger.

Ooops..I should have been more clear. My RS2 (better PQ than the RS1 to me) was professionally ISF Calibrated and was jaw dropping to me. My uncalibrated RS20 is slighly better than that. Just waiting to put some bulb hours before I have it calibrated....which with the CMS, should make that
PQ leap even larger.

Jaw dropping picture quality, and yet a need to upgrade. That sounds all to familiar...:D

I don't think so, the CMS sort of works for me and the 3 iris positions on the 350 really isn't enough.

Thanks Jeff, someone who saw the same 'red' HD350 as me, so you know what I mean. ;) I'd forgotten about the 3 iris positions (though I'm surprised no one has found a way of tweaking it in the Service menu), though I would probably cope with that, maybe even using an ND2 filter in combination perhaps. I realise you have a CMS setting that suits you, but IIRC you prefer a more saturated setting, slightly more than rec709? I also need to factor in my imperfect room, which I have recently improved as I couldn't even see much difference from my old AE2000 to the new AE3000. :o Now it's as good as it can practically get (and remain a usuable living room too), then the difference in contrast between the 750 and 350 might be lost....just trying to justify spending less I suppose. ;)

If I wanted to get as close as possible to rec709 and a perfectly flat greyscale, then a Lumagen would allow me to achieve that now (or as close as is practical) with my existing AE3000. I would have been concerned at the potential waste of money getting the Lumagen just incase I can ever afford a new (or maybe eventually a good used) HD750, but maybe it would still be useful to have anyway?

Anyone considering the JVC RS-20 can be very encouraged, from these comments. Kutlow, we are with ya, man ! If anyone deserves a GREAT unit at this point, it is you. If I was CEO of JVC, I think I'd personally jet a unit hand-carried, to your front door.;)

I'm just wondering if it would have been prudent for JVC to have offered some guidance on this CMS...perhaps their gurus could have gotten folks to where you have arrived after "God-knows how many man-hours." I suppose that would have been admitting some shortcomings, eh?;)

Definitely. And I haven't even installed my RS20 yet, just tested there were no issues with the shift/zoom motor and some disks for the picture.
Coming from a JVC G11 - one minor issue within warranty in the last 8 years that JVC fixed - I am hopeful about the build quality and longevity as well.
The PQ is awesome and I am really happy that I skipped the last couple of D-ILA generations and went for this.
I would do it again for sure.
SP

Definitely. And I haven't even installed my RS20 yet, just tested there were no issues with the shift/zoom motor and some disks for the picture.
Coming from a JVC G11 - one minor issue within warranty in the last 8 years that JVC fixed - I am hopeful about the build quality and longevity as well.
The PQ is awesome and I am really happy that I skipped the last couple of D-ILA generations and went for this.
I would do it again for sure.
SP

Hi Sprakash,

My first entry into FPTV was also with a G11 back about 9 years ago. The G11 was built like a tank and solid as a rock. I never had any issues with it. The successive generations of JVC's are lighter built so that they can deliver more performance at the same or less cost. But overall the reliability hasn't been affected at least with any of the other JVC's that I've owned (G11, SX-21, HD2K, RS1 and RS20) so I'm hopeful that the RS20 continues to be reliable.

Going from the G-11 to the RS20 must be a gigantic improvement in PQ for you. Do you find yourself finding new enjoyment and image detail rewatching some of the movies that you did on the G11? The movie, "Pitch Black" was on TV the other night and I had watched it on my RS1 with some friends when the HD-DVD version was released. I thought it looked good then but on the RS20 it's a different movie. More enveloping.

Hi Mark,
I am still in the process of installing the RS20. Taking the opportunity to do a bit of a redesign of the room.
Based on the minimal amount of testing I did, I must say, on the 5th Element I noticed a tad more noise on the RS20. This must be due to the sources. The RS20 was connected to the panny BD55, while the G11 to a pannyRP91-> SDI-> Centerstage CS2.
I'm contemplating connecting the CS2 to the RS20 with a DVI/HDMI cable to retain the SDI in the chain and compare and I have a feeling that would be what I'll end up using for DVDs.
I will report back my impressions, meanwhile, any thoughts?
Thanks,
SP

Posts like this really don't do my wallet any good. I've been so close to buying an RS-20 over the last few weeks and nearly caved in last night. However, i've decided to spend my cash on improving the room and getting a decent screen. Not nearly as fun, but almost as expensive!

^
My wallet took a beating last month (RS20, 2:40 screen, A-lens, motorized transport). In fact my RS20 is one month old today and has almost 100 hours. I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

I'm a first time projection owner, so dont' have much to compare to.
I would have liked a little more brightness -- but knew that going in.
I really need (and have) a light controlled room to make it look it's best.
Of course I've been playing around with the projector on a white sheet to date!

I think as a prospective buyer I would continue to watch for the following:
- a shortcut to CMS tweaking and/or have an RS20 familiar ISF calibrator calibrate it -- that is, wait a little while to calibrate until the experience percolates out
- watch the stuck vertical lens shift issue. Obviously, the majority of people don't seem to have had this issue and AVS has been highly responsive. Still, it worries me about reliability both now and in the future (after 2yr warranty or shipping if selling).
- I would consider an external CMS solution -- more $$ but may be worth it

Would I do it again.
Yes probably.
I might consider spending more on a used 3 chip DLP or a cheaper projector and external CMS box.
SOWK did have his Marantz for sale. :rolleyes:
Can't think of what that would be right now.

Certainly the AVS threads have been very helpful.

Mike

I'm a first time projection owner, so dont' have much to compare to.
I would have liked a little more brightness -- but knew that going in.
Mike

Well hey, the Hi-Power should Eliminate that issue !:D

Well hey, the Hi-Power should Eliminate that issue !:D
True, true, if you can mount it at near eye level.

Mike

I thought rs20 was brighter than average with 900 lumens uncalibrated. What size of a screen is that?

I thought rs20 was brighter than average with 900 lumens uncalibrated. What size of a screen is that?
Da-lite high power (HP).
Google Search AVS and you will find a lot about it.

Mike

"True, true, if you can mount it at near eye level."

For max gain, yes, but you can get worthwhile gain w/far from optimum setup.

Well, I'll add my name to the list!!! :) I'm very happy with the HD 750, I did have mine calibrated and have just broke the 200 hr mark. I watch a lot of sports on HD satellite, Bluray movies and surf the net on a 120" screen.

Hi Mark,
I am still in the process of installing the RS20. Taking the opportunity to do a bit of a redesign of the room.
Based on the minimal amount of testing I did, I must say, on the 5th Element I noticed a tad more noise on the RS20. This must be due to the sources. The RS20 was connected to the panny BD55, while the G11 to a pannyRP91-> SDI-> Centerstage CS2.
I'm contemplating connecting the CS2 to the RS20 with a DVI/HDMI cable to retain the SDI in the chain and compare and I have a feeling that would be what I'll end up using for DVDs.
I will report back my impressions, meanwhile, any thoughts?
Thanks,
SP

I think most implementation using HDMI are good enough these days to be comparable to SDI. If you see a difference please let me know.

As far as noise goes I bought the first gen 5th Element BD that had terrible PQ and refused to buy it again so I never use 5th Element for PQ tests anymore and therefore can't comment on if the nosie you are seeing is in the source. I will say that I was concerned about noise initially with my RS20, but as I use it more often, I'm not seeing the problem. At least not to the same extent that I saw earlier. I have no idea why.

... I bought the first gen 5th Element BD that had terrible PQ and refused to buy it again ...

Why not get a replacement with the exchange program?

Phone: (800) 860-2878
Email: consumer@sphecustomersupport.sony.com

Add me to the list of yes I would buy it again. I looked at many different set ups and decided on the carada BW and RS 20 sight unseen.

The picture is beautiful and I'm 100% satisfied so far. Hopefully it will be a reliable machine.

I know I'm a newbie here but it's hard to imagine a picture getting much better. I'm in a dark room, 118" screen and it's perfect!

Why not get a replacement with the exchange program?

Phone: (800) 860-2878
Email: consumer@sphecustomersupport.sony.com

I'm hoping if I hold onto the original copy it will become a collector's item and I can auction it off on Christie's and pay for my next projector :)

Da-lite high power (HP).
Google Search AVS and you will find a lot about it.

Mike

Or may be I should roll down the screen in my own HT and find out whatever I need about it..On a serious note, I was asking the other guy what size of screen did he find rs20 insufficiently bright on.

Have any of you happy new owners tried the zoom method for 2.35:1 AR movies and are you pleased with the image? Do you see pixels? Is the light ouput significantly reduced?

Has anyone done a direct comparo of zoom vs anamorphic lens for 2.35:1 AR movies with this PJ?

I will say that I was concerned about noise initially with my RS20, but as I use it more often, I'm not seeing the problem. At least not to the same extent that I saw earlier. I have no idea why.

Same for me. Maybe as the bulb ages - the noise reduces. Or?

I haven't yet posted to this thread so I thought I'd put in my 2¢ here. Now that I've had my RS20 set up for a couple weeks and gotten it calibrated to something I'm mostly happy with, yes, absolutely I'd buy again. I've become quite jaded with displays these days so it now takes a lot to impress me, and even so I find myself frequently in awe of just how good a picture I'm getting. :D

Have any of you happy new owners tried the zoom method for 2.35:1 AR movies and are you pleased with the image? Do you see pixels? Is the light ouput significantly reduced?

Has anyone done a direct comparo of zoom vs anamorphic lens for 2.35:1 AR movies with this PJ?
I haven't installed ISCOIIIL yet, but I may do so in the next 2 weeks and compare.
Mike

Or may be I should roll down the screen in my own HT and find out whatever I need about it..On a serious note, I was asking the other guy what size of screen did he find rs20 insufficiently bright on.
Sorry, I missed that.
Didn't mean to insult you or anything.:o

Mike

I think for those looking at their first projector, the RS20 (and RS10 depending on budget) are great options. Are they perfect....nope. But no projector is. The issues that many experienced were caused by UPS (allbeit JVC needed a slight tweak to adjust for handling), but they have been resolved now. That doesn't make it perform bad when it does arrive intact.

For those upgrading, harder to say. Upgraders come in 2 flavors...those who want better regardless of cost/performance upgrade, and those who need a huge improvement to justfiy the hassle. So based on that, it really depends on the person doing the upgrading and what they had right before.

Jason, what happened to your review of the RS20? I'm interested in your take.

Greetings,

I am at 135 hours of my RS-20 and would do it again without hesitation. I have owned 6 projectors going back to 2003 and this one is by far the best....;)


cheers,

If you would have asked me the question the first week I owned my RS-20, I may have said I was just slightly dissapointed. I upgraded from a four year old Sony HS-51 and I thought it would be a night and day differance. I have a bat cave for a room and a Stewart Firehawk screen. After getting my machine calibrated and have about 100 hours on it now, I can honestly say I am thrilled with my RS20. Every night when I turn it on I find myself at least once a night saying to myself WOW this looks awesome. For the money, I think this is a value piece, is it perfect, no, but I do not see the upgrade bug bitting until three ship DLP's are in my budget and I do not see that happening for another 3-5 years.

Jason, what happened to your review of the RS20? I'm interested in your take.

I have it mostly done, but I am just short on time with all our shipments. I'll get it going as soon as I can.

I have it mostly done, but I am just short on time with all our shipments. I'll get it going as soon as I can.

No problem, you definitely have had a busy couple of months.

We're just excited to receive justification for our purchases....

Just kidding, you could call it the worst projector in the world....I'm happy as hell.

As long as each person is happy with what they have, the rest doesn't matter. :)

Buy it again?......absolutely........but JVC should recall that piece of cheap plastic they call a remote and replace it with a decent one!:mad:

Gosh, the bad, "*%$#@" remote has been mentioned a lot. So can folks recommend a "moderate/reasonable" replacement for the RS-20 ?

NOTE: For the remote make sure to take the "clear" stickys off the sensors...that reduces sensitivity. For universals, any work, but I use the URC's with an RF system on my installs. That way there is an IR emitter stuck right to the projector and it works flawlessly.

NOTE: For the remote make sure to take the "clear" stickys off the sensors...that reduces sensitivity. For universals, any work, but I use the URC's with an RF system on my installs. That way there is an IR emitter stuck right to the projector and it works flawlessly.

Hey Jason,

Maybe you can help me then…..

I’m using an MX980 / MRF 250 for my RS20. I’m using the URC’s pre-programmed data base, RS-2 IR commands. I am having a heck of a time…. Every time I hit a command, it acts as if I hit it twice. Like if I hit the menu button, the menu will pop up, then go back down. I’ve tried changing the IR repeats, tried moving the flasher, removed the plastic….. you name it. My next step it to learn all the commands on the OEM remote. I’m just wondering if you experienced this, and if not, what are you doing differently than I??

IR repeats first, then sensitivity of each emitter...if they are really hot it might be causing duplicate blasts. Usually for the stick on emitters you don't need them set high.

Let me know.

The flashers from the MRF 250 are non-adjustable. I also use an MRF 350 that has adjustable flasher output, but all those flashers are being used elswhere. I may just have to buy another MRF 350, if the problem is the flasher output. Are you useing the RS-2 commands Jason?

Have any of you happy new owners tried the zoom method for 2.35:1 AR movies and are you pleased with the image? Do you see pixels? Is the light ouput significantly reduced?

Has anyone done a direct comparo of zoom vs anamorphic lens for 2.35:1 AR movies with this PJ?
I use the zoom for my 130 inch wide 2.35 screen and think it is fine. Great picture, don't see any black bars, and don't have a problem with lost light as I run in normal mode. Would be nice to not have to zoom but don't think it would be worth the cost. An anamorphic lense might also show a better picture but at this time I don't plan on getting one.

One thing I'll add to this discussion is that I just passed the 100 hr mark on the bulb on my RS20. I really wanted to live with the RS20 for awhile and become intimately familiar with it before I pass final judgment. I feel that after logging that many hours on it that I'll come out say that I'm ecstatic with the image. I don't know if it's my particular unit or RS20s in general, but I'll say that it throws the best image that I've seen anywhere near it's price range and quite a bit above.

Usually after living with a display for awhile, I become aware of artifacts and issues that become distracting when watching a movie. Once you see shading uniformity problems, bright corners, color shifting artifacts, etc. I find it's difficult to ignore them and I'm always at least subconciously aware of the problems. The more I watch the RS20 though, I'm not seeing artifacts but instead stunning scene after stunning scene. The contrast in dark scenes on this thing is amazing. I never thought I'd see a digital this good. At least not for quite awhile.

Tonight I watched the most recent Harry Potter movie (the order of the Phoenix), most of the second half of the movie is very dark but with small amounts of bright content that is stunning on the RS20. The other night I watched "Pitch Black" and it was an entirely different movie on the RS20 than when I watched it on other projectors like an HD2K and RS1. I really consider the RS20 to be the reference projector for the under $20K price range. Anyway that's my opinion based on my own priorities of image quality, but others will have their own priorities of image quality and rate projectors differently and thats fine. All I know is that I can be happy with the RS20 for quite some time :)

One thing I'll add to this discussion is that I just passed the 100 hr mark on the bulb on my RS20. I really wanted to live with the RS20 for awhile and become intimately familiar with it before I pass final judgment. I feel that after logging that many hours on it that I'll come out say that I'm ecstatic with the image. I don't know if it's my particular unit or RS20s in general, but I'll say that it throws the best image that I've seen anywhere near it's price range and quite a bit above.



Thanks for the post Mark. What is the size, material and aspect ratio of your screen? If you have gone CIH, what anamorphic lens are you using? Throw distance? Thanks in advance.

One thing I'll add to this discussion is that I just passed the 100 hr mark on the bulb on my RS20. I really wanted to live with the RS20 for awhile and become intimately familiar with it before I pass final judgment. I feel that after logging that many hours on it that I'll come out say that I'm ecstatic with the image. I don't know if it's my particular unit or RS20s in general, but I'll say that it throws the best image that I've seen anywhere near it's price range and quite a bit above.

I was thinking similar thoughts yesterday.

For the first time in a long time I had a weekend basically free and I took advantage of it by watching some movies.

I have over 200 hours on my RS20 already. I would bet that half of that time has been spent calibrating, unsuccessfully trying to get the CMS to work, and basically watching material very critically (as opposed to for entertainment).

I watched a few movies this weekend: Wanted, the new Indiana Jones movie and Godfather 2. I have written this before but it really is true: it is the rare scene that I watch and say that it is need of improvement. This means that the projector is basically as good as whatever source you are watching.

I have been making some mental notes of the strengths and weakness of my RS20. Note that some of these criteria will vary from unit to unit because of manufacturing issues but, from user reports, most of them appear to be improved over the RS1. Here they are:

Strengths:

1. Image Dimensionality (image POPS off the screen in both darker and brighter scenes)
2. Blacks without haze and without detail loss
3. Greyscale tracking
4. Color Performance (great even without working CMS)
5. Uniformity (Black fields without bright corners, White fields essentialy perfect)
6. Almost perfect convergence (As good as three chip can get).
7. Tack sharp with ability to resolve very fine details.
8. Bright!

Weaknesses:

1. CMS does not work!
2. Some haze in blacks in some bright scenes (rarely seen). Black bars noticably lighten in brighter scenes.
3. SD image processing could definitely be better.
4. I notice more compression-related artifacts on HD cable than on my RS1 (maybe because it is brighter?)
5. Not a lot of image processing options available to user.

If someone were to ask me to describe the RS20 in only a few words, I would say: incredibly dimensional image.

The new Indiana Jones movie maybe wasn't that great (I liked it) but the cinematography is wonderfully done. A few scenes stand out. The car chase through the jungle scene is amazing. What stood out to me was the rays of light streaming through the trees. This is a great example of what the RS20 can do in a mixed light/dark scene. Another great scene in toward the end when Indy and the others enter the pitch black temple with only torches to light their way. Blacks are shown without a hint of haze. Light from the torches flicker on the walls and faces. This kind of scene has been difficult for digitals in the past but the RS20 crushes it. It is very impressive. This film has a kind of sepia color palette which the RS20 in THX mode reproduces faithfully. Take a look at it in the RS20's native gamut with THX disabled. I don't think anyone would want to watch something that way.

Godfather 2 is another simply amazing movie to watch on the RS20. The cinematographer (Gordon Willis) obviously is a master of using light and shadow and it is really used to tell the story. The blacks that are shown without any kind of haze in scenes where there are large bright elements cause the image to fly off the screen. It really is pretty amazing.

Wanted is a decent flick. It is not outstanding either in its story or in how it was shot. In many ways I think that movies where it is apparent that the cinematography has not been given the greatest amount of thought can often be challenging because there has not been a lot of thought about how the viewer is meant to perceive each scene. Still, the RS20 allowed Wanted to look as good as it was able. One thing that was obviously given a lot of thought was how to light Angelina Jolie. She looked great!

JVC should enjoy this time while it lasts because it seems that TI has put together some refinements (combinations of lamp modulation and DynamicBlack) that look to combine traditional DLP stregnths with much improved dark scene performance. This is an exciting time in front projection.

FYI pertaining to the IR remote being weak...I found a solution. Any of my customers please send me a note and I will explain.

The contrast in dark scenes on this thing is amazing. I never thought I'd see a digital this good.

When I watched some of the night city scenes in Star Wars ATOTC the contrast blew me away. There was one scene where the assassin places the "worms" in
a little flying robot (can't be bothered to learn all George's goofy names for these things). She is standing in front of a very bright neon advertisement. The contrast was practically blinding! I've never seen that neon light in that scene look so off-the-wall brilliant against the darker portions of those shots.

FYI pertaining to the IR remote being weak...I found a solution. Any of my customers please send me a note and I will explain.As far as the remote, I put my RS20 behind my back wall where it is shooting through a hole that is maybe a square foot or a little under. I was surprised that the remote seemed to work better bouncing it off the screen this way than when I had the RS20 in the room. Made me wonder if the problem is that the remote is too strong. Or maybe my impressions were wrong or there is another reason.

--Darin

LG, nice summary. Yup, Indiana Jones and The Crystal Kingdom is a very good example of the dark scene performance of the RS20. I remember those scenes very well and was similarly impressed by the RS20 in those scenes. Lots of dimensionality and depth. Usually any dark scene where there is a little bit of bright illumination like someone shining a flashlight or using a torch will have tons of depth with this projector.

Thanks for the post Mark. What is the size, material and aspect ratio of your screen? If you have gone CIH, what anamorphic lens are you using? Throw distance? Thanks in advance.

Hi Haroon, I'm using a 110" Stewart Studiotek 1.3 gain 16x9 screen. Throw distance is around 17' (towards longest throw). With 100 hrs on the bulb I tend to watch movies with the iris at around -8 or -9 (was reduced more when the lamp was new). I am seriously considering going with a CIH setup and a motorized Panamorph 480.

Hi Haroon, I'm using a 110" Stewart Studiotek 1.3 gain 16x9 screen. Throw distance is around 17' (towards longest throw). With 100 hrs on the bulb I tend to watch movies with the iris at around -8 or -9 (was reduced more when the lamp was new). I am seriously considering going with a CIH setup and a motorized Panamorph 480.

Love my new motorized Panamorph 480:) (and I didn't have to break the bank:D)

What size screen are you contemplating???

Love my new motorized Panamorph 480:) (and I didn't have to break the bank:D)

What size screen are you contemplating???

I'm width limited in my HT. So a width of about 108" is about right for my room. This is in between the standard Stewart 110" D (101" width) and 128" D (118" width) screens though. If I go with the 110" diagonal I end up with about the same width as I currently have but lose a lot of the height for 16x9 and 4x3 content though so that's one of the reasons I haven't gone that route yet. If I had a wider room I'd be all over the 128" 2.35:1 screen though :)

What screen are you using?

Constant Image Area. C'mon Mark you know you want it. :D:)

I think most implementation using HDMI are good enough these days to be comparable to SDI. If you see a difference please let me know.

As far as noise goes I bought the first gen 5th Element BD that had terrible PQ and refused to buy it again so I never use 5th Element for PQ tests anymore and therefore can't comment on if the nosie you are seeing is in the source. I will say that I was concerned about noise initially with my RS20, but as I use it more often, I'm not seeing the problem. At least not to the same extent that I saw earlier. I have no idea why.

Mark you can return your 5th Element disc and receive the improved version at no charge.

What screen are you using?

120" wide X 50" high (130" diag)
Which gave me the same 1:78/1:85 screen size as my previous 104" diagonal screen. But 2:35 image grew in size from 3,458 sq inches to 6,000 square inches:) (scope films are now quite immersive at my 1st row 40 degree viewing angle)

Constant Image Area. C'mon Mark you know you want it. :D:)

You guys are killing me! I already pushed my home theater out into the garage by about 4 feet to get more depth (now at 18'), if I keep reading this forum though I'll end up pushing the side of the house out to get more width :eek: Do you guys know how many HDMI cables I need to sell to move the house out by 3'? :D


120" wide X 50" high (130" diag)
Which gave me the same 1:78/1:85 screen size as my previous 104" diagonal screen. But 2:35 image grew in size from 3,458 sq inches to 6,000 square inches (scope films are now quite immersive at my 1st row 40 degree viewing angle)


Perfect. That's exactly what I'd like to do is go 2.35:1 CIH with the same height as my current 16x9 setup. Blast these walls!

You guys are killing me! I already pushed my home theater out into the garage by about 4 feet to get more depth (now at 18'), if I keep reading this forum though I'll end up pushing the side of the house out to get more width :eek:

But you are using a 110" diag 16:9 screen right? That's a width of about 96 inches.

You can go up to 108 inches wide for scope, but in a CIH set up that shrinks your 16:0 image to a mere 93 inches diagonal. (ouch).

Of course you could buy a big 108" wide 16:9 screen but then you end up with a much bigger 16:9 image than your scope image, which I presume you don't want. (I know you know all that: I'm thinking out loud).

So...Constant Image Height: You can have a big 16:9 image - bigger than the one you have now if you want, and a much bigger scope image that is still appreciably wider than your 16:9 image!

The zoom seems easy to use on the JVC.

As for me my home theater reno has finally begun today - burly men moving furniture and everything! My screen will allow scope images up to 124" wide and 16:9/1:85:1 images up to 61" tall (124" diagonal). Using zoom and 4 way remote control masking. Seating distance about 11.5 feet. I'm hoping that will cover me for the "wish I'd got a bigger screen" issue. :)

(But it's crazy how fast one can adapt to a bigger screen. In a way that's another reason I'm going to vary my image size; it will help keep the really big images more fresh and impressive if I'm not watching them all the time).

Do you guys know how many HDMI cables I need to sell to move the house out by 3'? :D

A couple of sets of Monster Cables with every projector, you'll be there in no time.

My screen will allow scope images up to 124" wide and 16:9/1:85:1 images up to 61" tall (124" diagonal). Using zoom and 4 way remote control masking. Seating distance about 11.5 feet. I'm hoping that will cover me for the "wish I'd got a bigger screen" issue.

Wow. 124" wide at 11.5 feet is 49.76 degrees viewing angle:). I don't think you will ever want a bigger screen:eek:

Wow. 124" wide at 11.5 feet is 49.76 degrees viewing angle:). I don't think you will ever want a bigger screen:eek:

You wouldn't think so. Yet when I viewed the RS20 at mrlittlejean's house he had it on an even bigger 2:35:1 screen - 127" wide - and his seating is significantly closer (9 or maybe 8 feet to the screen, I think). Yet it didn't feel too big for whatever reason, at least not for movies like 2001.

I find my comfort level with image size can vary on the content and it seems to be the case with some of my guests too. A friend of mine was over and we watched some scenes of War Of The Worlds (Spielberg) at about 122" diagonal. He was in awe and loved it. But when he came over to watch the UFC he found such an image size overwhelming and asked if we could make it smaller. No problem, since I was just projecting on my wall I just zoomed the image to his comfort level. That's the type of flexibility I'm looking for in my finished system with the 4 way masking.

You wouldn't think so. Yet when I viewed the RS20 at mrlittlejean's house he had it on an even bigger 2:35:1 screen - 127" wide - and his seating is significantly closer (9 or maybe 8 feet to the screen, I think). Yet it didn't feel too big for whatever reason, at least not for movies like 2001.

I find my comfort level with image size can vary on the content and it seems to be the case with some of my guests too. A friend of mine was over and we watched some scenes of War Of The Worlds (Spielberg) at about 122" diagonal. He was in awe and loved it. But when he came over to watch the UFC he found such an image size overwhelming and asked if we could make it smaller. No problem, since I was just projecting on my wall I just zoomed the image to his comfort level. That's the type of flexibility I'm looking for in my finished system with the 4 way masking.

Since my room config is restricting me to CIW (i.e., with my 110" W 16x9 screen) I think maybe I'll put my recliner on some 'railroad track' runners: run it up to ~9 to 10 ft for 2.35 pics (with viewing angle ~ 50 deg), and then back to my present 12 ft for 16x9. Using the RS20's power lens shift to lower the 2.35 pic to the bottom part of the screen will have it positioned just right for 2.35.

Since my room config is restricting me to CIW (i.e., with my 110" W 16x9 screen) I think maybe I'll put my recliner on some 'railroad track' runners: run it up to ~9 to 10 ft for 2.35 pics (with viewing angle ~ 50 deg), and then back to my present 12 ft for 16x9. Using the RS20's power lens shift to lower the 2.35 pic to the bottom part of the screen will have it positioned just right for 2.35.
Are you serious? :eek:

If so, will it be motorized? :D:rolleyes:

Mike

Are you serious? :eek:

If so, will it be motorized? :D:rolleyes:

Mike

Tongue in check; but hey, maybe motorized is the way to do it!

After getting the projector set-up, you now can count me as another yes vote. If however, I had purchased a Lumagen Radiance and my RS1, I would not upgrade. The RS20 has improvements in most areas compared to my RS20. Still, it does not blow my old RS1 out of the water. It's a refinement of the RS series. For someone trying to decide whether to get an RS1 or the RS20, I would say definitely get the RS20 if you can budget it.

I know this is a very old thread but I came to the party late.

I had RS1, RS2, Sony HW10 and HW15; the answer is no.

My RS20 had shift problem (stuck), though I picked up the used pj personally housed in its original packing materials.

Knowing what I know now, it costed me $800 to get from a HW15 to the RS20. I would rank them in this manner: HW10, RS1, HW15, RS2 and then the RS20. The contrast, picture (color) and noise level are slightly better from the RS2, but I was not wowed.

Most folks would be happy with my HW15, myself included. However, the strength of contrast always made me yearning for the JVC. BTW, Sony's quality has either catched up or surpassed JVC at this juncture. Not sure if they are both assembled in China with the newer models.

Watching Transformers 3 in BR last night made me a JVC believer all over again, but it is not cheap.

It's kinda funny reading this thread now with the new JVC in the wing and the first reviews of one it's main competitor, Sony vw95, just beginning. I had the RS2 and now the RS20, the upgrade was a noticeble evolutionary improvement, not day/nite. But, over the past several months, even with a new bulb, the motion blur has become a major distraction for me, it most likely has always been there but maybe reading the forum regularly has made me more aware of it. This has been such a nuisance that I am seriously considering the Sony vw95 as it has been frequently noted that sxrd has significantly less motion blur than dila. I do watch a lot of dark movies and the better blacks/contrast of jvc has held my attention, but now, only unless the JVC 55 is reported to have equaled the sxrd in motion handling will I consider it for my upgrade this year. I think the contrast/black level/shadow detail on the Sony's has closed in on the JVCs that, my guess only, is that the JVC black level/contrast difference may only be noticed in A/B viewing and not if viewed independently.

On 2nd thought, over the span of the last 10 years, I easily "lost" more than $800/upgrade.

Now I'm going thru my library all over again w/ a new appreciation and perspective, e.g., Blade Runner, Aliens 2, T2, Se7en, King Kong, Kung-Fu Panda, LOTR, Star Wars, A better Tomorrow, etc. Hell, it's worth $800!

On 2nd thought, over the span of the last 10 years, I easily "lost" more than $800/upgrade.

Now I'm going thru my library all over again w/ a new appreciation and perspective, e.g., Blade Runner, Aliens 2, T2, Se7en, King Kong, Kung-Fu Panda, LOTR, Star Wars, A better Tomorrow, etc. Hell, it's worth $800!

I suspect the improvements were so gradual that they did not seem like much, but I bet a side by side comparison between the RS1 and the RS20 would show more than you think. It is nice when you can watch a movie that you know well and see things that you were never able to notice before.

I actually gone thru RS1--RS2--RS20. CMS was ultimately what I was after.

Never again. "Pink band" on my 23 months old RS-20 and projector can go to trash. Repair cost about $5K if you are out of warranty.
Lot's of that issue on JVC RS-XX projector and no reaction from JVC.

Simly, I cannot afford such projector, anymore.

VOTE YES 4 ME...best projector I've had ever. I upgrade every 3 years, if money allows it. My last pj was the epson 1080UB PRO, sold it cheap to a friend and bought a USED RS20 on VideoGon 4 months ago for $2500. I thought it was a good price, and it only had 348 TOTAL hours on the unit. No warranty, and I have a wood stove in the same room. I will lay down the law to not use the projector when a fire is burning....that's why I have a 32" lcd tv right next to my screen. I LOVE MY RS20!!!