"Panasonic Announces its Flagship Camcorders: The High Definition HDC-HS300, HDC-TM300, and HDC-HS250"


All three camcorders record in full HD/1920 x 1080 with the "3MOS" system (three 1/4.1-inch CMOS sensors).


The three flagship models leading Panasonic's high definition lineup are scheduled for release in April. The anticipated MSRP for each camcorder is: HDC-HS300 ($1399.95), HDC-TM300 ($1299.95), HDC-HS250 ($999.95).

camcorderinfo
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Announced-Its-Flagship-Camcorders-The-High-Definition-HDC-HS300-HDC-TM300-HDC-HS250-35963.htm#

Panasonic Introduces Three New SD Card Camcorders: The Standard Definition SDR-S15, SDR-S26, and SDR-SW21

The Panasonic SDR-SW21 will be available in lime green, orange, or silver for an expected MSRP of $399.95. The SDR-S15 will be available in black, silver, or chocolate for an expected MSRP of $299.95. The SDR-S26 will be available in champagne, black, blue, or red for an expected MSRP of $329.95. All three record exclusively to SD card and are expected to ship in April.

camcorderinfo
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Introduces-Three-New-SD-Card-Camcorders-The-Standard-Definition-SDR-S15-SDR-S26-SDR-SW21-35966.htm

And it would appear to be the only one of the big three to keep a viewfinder.

And it would appear to be the only one of the big three to keep a viewfinder.

this will make a lot of people happy..

but then again panny is def 3rd in consumer HD cams....

Canon and Sony are ahead imo....

SDXC would work nice with these. I will pick up a HS or TM 300 this year

Every company has a larger sensor, larger glass, so it will not be as easy to say that. The lenses are also faster, Panny may become a serious player again.

panny is certainly a serious avchd player with their hmc150... they are leading the prosumer pack right now with that unit.

panny is certainly a serious avchd player with their hmc150... they are leading the prosumer pack right now with that unit.
.....In the AVCHD format. Sony is better off sticking with XDCAM EX in the prosumer stuff, which of course gets updated in April at NAB.

Does any one know what's the bit rate?

.....In the AVCHD format. Sony is better off sticking with XDCAM EX in the prosumer stuff, which of course gets updated in April at NAB.

the xdcam ex costs twice as much as the hmc150, hardly a fair comparison.

you watch and see how many prosumer cams will be running h.264 in the next couple of years.

Does any one know what's the bit rate?
I thought it was 17 but according to this article that someone linked to on hv20.com, it claims that it goes up to 24MBPS.
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/10026.html
Please let that be true.

First impressions from camcorderinfo reports just 17 Mbps for the top of the line:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-HS300-First-Impressions-Camcorder-Review-36059.htm

The Japanese Panasonic site also confirms the 17Mbps maximum.

First impressions from camcorderinfo reports just 17 Mbps for the top of the line:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-HS300-First-Impressions-Camcorder-Review-36059.htm

The Japanese Panasonic site also confirms the 17Mbps maximum.

I don't understand the logic why do they cap it at 17Mbps? These cam have potential with 3mos. Oh well back to the Canon then.

Yeah I would want 24bit avchd as well. I'm not worried about it though if it does not. As it is right now 17bit native/raw avchd editing is cpu, ram intensive. 24bit takes even more resources & is less smooth to raw edit. 24bit also takes up more space. The avchd editing software side has a way to go & its also come along way.

this will make a lot of people happy..

but then again panny is def 3rd in consumer HD cams....

Canon and Sony are ahead imo....

Maybe in terms of sales, but my Panny HDC-HS100 is MILES better than my Sony HDR-HC7. :D

Maybe in terms of sales, but my Panny HDC-HS100 is MILES better than my Sony HDR-HC7. :D

Hmmm a chip AVCHD Panasonic versus a single chip HDV Sony.... quite a fair comparison! I suppose the Varicam is also better than the Sony SR12.... Yes Panasonic is way better then! LOL. Seriously, model for model, I find the Sonys are ahead of the Pannys. But on Panasonic's side, Sony has left a gap between the Sony SR12, and some of the semi pro stuff like the Z5, Z7 and EX1. Panasonic has seen an opportunity and cashed in, and taken the name "AVCCAM" - looks like Panasonic tried to pre-empt Sony's marketing team from taking that name and cashing in on adding the new format to their pro family. ie: BetaCAM, DVCAM, HD-CAM, XDCAM. To keep it more consistent with Panasonic, they should have called it AVCPRO (like DVCPRO). I don't expect Sony to bring AVCHD to the pro lineup, but I do see XDCAM EX getting smaller, more affordable models. Interestingly, Sony has licensed XDCAM EX technology to JVC, who now has made an affordable semi pro camera with 35mbs. http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101845 tiny sensor and lens though.

Anyone planning on getting the Panasonic HDC-HS300..i heard some good reviews and it might even beat the Canon Vixias.

Original Japanese:
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English Translated:
Translated version of http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs//20090218/zooma399.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2F%2F20090218%2 Fzooma399.htm&sl=ja&tl=en)

Anyone planning on getting the Panasonic HDC-HS300..i heard some good reviews and it might even beat the Canon Vixias.

I'm tempted by the Panasonic HDC-HS300. I'm still researching and trying to find some more info. I'll see if I can find the links to the reviews/articles I saw ...

I'm tempted by the Panasonic HDC-HS300. I'm still researching and trying to find some more info. I'll see if I can find the links to the reviews/articles I saw ...

I found these articles on the Panasonic HDC-HS300. .... I hope this is not considered "spam" ...

Camcorder forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=161

Panasonic page:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/Hi-Def-Camcorders/model.HDC-HS300K.O_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection

Panasonic HDC HS300 youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7jEjE6nd3A

1st. Panasonic HDC HS300 Review:
http://techalites.com/2009/02/17/panasonic-hdc-hs300-hdd-full-hd-camcorder-review/

2nd. Panasonic HDC HS300 Review:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-HS300-First-Impressions-Camcorder-Review-36059.htm

Does anyone have any other reviews/articles they can share ?

I confess the signficance of the 24bit avchd vis the 17bit native/raw avchd is completely lost on me. Is this important only for playback? or is it important for recording the raw video ? (ie why does this make a difference to some users ? ).

sheesh

Camcorderinfo states they didn't get to perform tests on the unit.

Here's one in the first paragraph
The company claims the new sensor will reduce noise, but we'll have to wait until the camorder is in our labs until we make the final determination

Here's another in the second paragraph
We look forward to getting the camcorder into our labs and testing out that theory.


The youtube link is an infomercial, not a review.

The "Techalities" review is nothing of the sort, just regurgitating the printed specs, and throwing up a canned corporate video



It may be that the model won't live up to expectation, but until there is some actual test measurements to prove it, please stop referring to these observational articles as 'reviews'.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/08/panasonics-hdc-hs300-hd-camcorder-reviewed-thoroughly-enjoyed/

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/08/panasonics-hdc-hs300-hd-camcorder-reviewed-thoroughly-enjoyed/


again, a nice observational article, but not a single measured test.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this Panny beat the pants off of everybody else. I own an SD9, but have been thrashed by Canon-this-or-Sony-that. The fact is, Panasonic asked reviewers not to do any testing for pre-production models, so anything out there (at this time) is merely a first impression, not an actual performance review.

I just bought the competing Sony, I only posted that link because nobody else had and those, like you, who are interested in this model might benefit from it, not that it had any concrete data for you to pour over.

I don't understand the logic why do they cap it at 17Mbps? These cam have potential with 3mos. Oh well back to the Canon then.

These cameras are at the cheap and cheery end of the market and the target users are most likely only want to be able to burn their 17Mb/s AVCHD to cheap DVDR media.

My Panny BD35 blu-ray player will not play AVCHD on DVD smoothly at data rates above 18Mb/s. I read that the SONY play station has this limitation also.

This is due to the Redbook DVD standard limiting DVDs to 16Mb/s max, so the players are not built to spin any faster than this.

Yes, the 25Mb/s max / 21Mb/s ave AVCHD H264 rates as used on the Panny AG-HMC150 would be nice, but consumers would have to burn to BD-R.

Note, BD-R 25s are cheap enough now, so Panny could have at least given users the option of the higher bit rate.

Camcorderinfo states they didn't get to perform tests on the unit.
Here is a review, where the reviewer "claim" they got their hands on an early version of this camcorder. ...
http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2009/02/07/Panasonic-HDC-HS300/p1

Its NOT a 'single measured test' but its more information to add to this thread, as we try to build up a "picture" as to how this camera may perform.

Edit ... I see now that the http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/08/panasonics-hdc-hs300-hd-camcorder-reviewed-thoroughly-enjoyed/ article simply refers to the "trustedreviews" article.

I just bought the competing Sony, I only posted that link because nobody else had and those, like you, who are interested in this model might benefit from it, not that it had any concrete data for you to pour over.You did not say in your post, but I assume because you are posting links on Sony that you like your Sony. Glad to infer that you like it, and I'll be certain to visit both Canon and Sony threads for information on those Canon and Sony competing camera ... And thanks for the http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/08/panasonics-hdc-hs300-hd-camcorder-reviewed-thoroughly-enjoyed/ link !! ....

Still, last I looked this still is a Panasonic thread. .... Do you have any views on the new Panasonic cameras?

I've been set to get Sony as my first HD camcorder (specially due to 5.1 audio over Cannon) but new Panasonic seems very interesting and I'll wait for few reviews of Panasonic before I pick up Sony.

I've been set to get Sony as my first HD camcorder (specially due to 5.1 audio over Cannon) but new Panasonic seems very interesting and I'll wait for few reviews of Panasonic before I pick up Sony.

Yeah... think I'll hold as well. I have to replace the wife's HC3 and it was either the JVC HD6 or a SR11 for the 5.1 sound. But these new panny's sound good and come complete with the surround sound. It'll be interesting to see some actual tests and numbers.

Hmmm a chip AVCHD Panasonic versus a single chip HDV Sony.... quite a fair comparison! I suppose the Varicam is also better than the Sony SR12.... Yes Panasonic is way better then! LOL. Seriously, model for model, I find the Sonys are ahead of the Pannys. But on Panasonic's side, Sony has left a gap between the Sony SR12, and some of the semi pro stuff like the Z5, Z7 and EX1. Panasonic has seen an opportunity and cashed in, and taken the name "AVCCAM" - looks like Panasonic tried to pre-empt Sony's marketing team from taking that name and cashing in on adding the new format to their pro family. ie: BetaCAM, DVCAM, HD-CAM, XDCAM. To keep it more consistent with Panasonic, they should have called it AVCPRO (like DVCPRO). I don't expect Sony to bring AVCHD to the pro lineup, but I do see XDCAM EX getting smaller, more affordable models. Interestingly, Sony has licensed XDCAM EX technology to JVC, who now has made an affordable semi pro camera with 35mbs. http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101845 tiny sensor and lens though.

Slightly off topic, but this JVC GY-HM100U only has 35mbs MPEG2.

Assuming H264 has 2.5x more efficient compression, then it would be approx = 14Mb/s H264 quality. ie - Not stellar, but good enough for TV new gathering. BTW - I would be curious as to how this camera performs in low light (I am not expecting much) - best on a new thread.

Yeah... think I'll hold as well. I have to replace the wife's HC3 and it was either the JVC HD6 or a SR11 for the 5.1 sound. But these new panny's sound good and come complete with the surround sound. It'll be interesting to see some actual tests and numbers.


IMHO, Panny does the surrround sound well. I've recorded some parades with my SD9, and I hear floats going around me while diesel engines are reproduced in the '.1' channel.

I recall some discussions in which you took part, BB, that debated whether it was true dolby 5.1, or just an electronic hack. Whatever it is, it sounds good on on a home theater system. Even though the HDWriter software is a cuts-only editor, it supports 5.1 throughout, and you can hear the result distinctly on the finished dvd. I just hope that Panasonic will update HDWriter to go with their updated camcorder-it's now been 2 generations without change.

IMHO, Panny does the surrround sound well. I've recorded some parades with my SD9, and I hear floats going around me while diesel engines are reproduced in the '.1' channel.

I recall some discussions in which you took part, BB, that debated whether it was true dolby 5.1, or just an electronic hack. Whatever it is, it sounds good on on a home theater system. Even though the HDWriter software is a cuts-only editor, it supports 5.1 throughout, and you can hear the result distinctly on the finished dvd. I just hope that Panasonic will update HDWriter to go with their updated camcorder-it's now been 2 generations without change.

Yeah... Thank you. There are some here that seem to think it's quite fake.... I am NOT one of those people. These 5.1 systems DO work. I've not only heard them, but seen (and edited) the 6 wave forms in both Adobe Audition and Sony Vegas.

Now I can't SWEAR that it's not electronically generated... only an Engineer that built these cams knows for sure. But I will say that if it IS electronic hocus pokus then they sure have done an EXCELLENT job because you can even hear depth to these recordings.

That and the fact that (at least Sony anyway) carries the official Dolby Digital logo which means it DOES have to live up to certain minimum standards.

You did not say in your post, but I assume because you are posting links on Sony that you like your Sony. Glad to infer that you like it, and I'll be certain to visit both Canon and Sony threads for information on those Canon and Sony competing camera ... And thanks for the http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/08/panasonics-hdc-hs300-hd-camcorder-reviewed-thoroughly-enjoyed/ link !! ....

Still, last I looked this still is a Panasonic thread. .... Do you have any views on the new Panasonic cameras?

Don't have it yet. It arrives tomorrow. I'm still interested in seeing how it compares against the Panny and Canon top of the lines, since this is the first time I will play camcorder guinea pig. Life's too short to be a fanboy.

Don't have it yet. It arrives tomorrow. I'm still interested in seeing how it compares against the Panny and Canon top of the lines,.From what I have read, the Sony HDR-XR500V is a superb camcorder. I hope you have fun with it! I'm definitely looking forward to any observations you may have on the Sony HDR-XR500V, and of course any comparative judgments (wrt the competing Canon/Panasonic camcorders) that you may arrive at as well.

and so will the rest of us, in the Sony threads.

70x optical zoom? is the video still viewable when zoomed at 70x???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKQ-J72f810&eurl=http://www.hkreporter.com/talks/thread-740805-1-1.html&feature=player_embedded

wow! 70x!

Since the HF S100 review on camcorderinfo came out implying that the Panasonic HDC-TM300 might actually be better than the Canon offerings, I've been looking for related info, specs, reviews, etc. Looking at the spec sheet pdf from Panasonic's site, I don't understand what they mean by "built-in MPEG2 converter." Any ideas?

The TM300 looks like a nice cam overall, and certainly sounds much better than their previous offerings.

Anybody picked up Panasonic HDC-HS300 yet ? I've been trying to compare it with Sony's offering (Xr500) but so far I've only been able to find two reviews of the Panny and one praised it a lot (Trusted review) while other hated it (Infosys) :confused:

any update ?

I want to know the video quality of the HS250 (same TM300) but cheaper

I want to know the video quality of the HS250 (same TM300) but cheaper


Camcorderinfo.com:
Below HDC-HS300 and HDC-TM300 is a third "semi-professional" high definition camcorder, the HDC-HS250. The HS250 features a built-in 120GB HDD, but is virtually identical to its cousins in terms of internal processing/optics and video performance. The HDC-HS250 is intended to offer the same image quality, but in a more compact, portable design. Two ways in which Panasonic has simplified the design is by removing the manual functions and the electronic viewfinder.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Announced-Its-Flagship-Camcorders-The-High-Definition-HDC-HS300-HDC-TM300-HDC-HS250-35963.htm#

Camcorderinfo.com:


http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Announced-Its-Flagship-Camcorders-The-High-Definition-HDC-HS300-HDC-TM300-HDC-HS250-35963.htm#


yeah but I cant find reviews of the HS250 :(

yeah but I cant find reviews of the HS250 :(

They're saying that the HS250 image is comparable to the more expensive HDC-TM300, HDC-HS300..but without the viewfinder and manual controls...

here's a review of the HDC-HS300:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2009/02/07/Panasonic-HDC-HS300/p1


You can also check out videos on YouTube of the TM300..make sure to hit the HD button on each video:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=panasonic+hdc-tm300

any idea how HS-300/TM-300 compares to Sony XR500 ? I'm debating between the two.

Since the HF S100 review on camcorderinfo came out implying that the Panasonic HDC-TM300 might actually be better than the Canon offerings, I've been looking for related info, specs, reviews, etc. Looking at the spec sheet pdf from Panasonic's site, I don't understand what they mean by "built-in MPEG2 converter." Any ideas?

The TM300 looks like a nice cam overall, and certainly sounds much better than their previous offerings.

This review also says TM300 is "... first of the major manufacturers to offer full support of Mac computers, allowing easy file transfer so that files may be edited in iMovie." Anyone know any details here?

Also, TM300 has manual focusing ring which is a great feature lacking in almost all consumer and prosumer camcorders.

I must admit to being a bit of a Canon fanboy and I was on the verge of buying the HF11. However, Panny's TM300 has enticed me enough to delay my purchase until I read some hands-on reviews. I'm still a big Canon fan but I'm no cultist.

I was set to buy Sony XR500 but after reading about TM300/HS300 I have decided to wait because they seem to be the perfect camcorder that I've been looking for. Now, if only there were some reviews that can confirm that the performance is as good in real world as the specs make them look.

Anybody bought either HS300 or TM300 yet ?

well I bought and tested out the hs250. It just wasn't up to par with the xr's from sony nor the hf-s from canon.

The hs250 had more noise in day and night and it's low lux wasn't as good as the other two. Maybe the 300's has different processing, but they're supposedly the same. The main thing that was bad was it's photo stills. They were grainy in day and night. Although it's the highest at 9mp native, the 3mos doesn't seem to do well for photo stills. Most sites agree with that and the af was slow to focus in photo mode.

well I bought and tested out the hs250. It just wasn't up to par with the xr's from sony nor the hf-s from canon.

The hs250 had more noise in day and night and it's low lux wasn't as good as the other two. Maybe the 300's has different processing, but they're supposedly the same. The main thing that was bad was it's photo stills. They were grainy in day and night. Although it's the highest at 9mp native, the 3mos doesn't seem to do well for photo stills. Most sites agree with that and the af was slow to focus in photo mode.

That's interesting because it contradicts most of the professional reviews that I have seen for TM300/HS300. Maybe there is difference in processing between HS250 and the high end models.

70x optical zoom!?

Panasonic is giving away free starter kit (extra battery and case) with the purchase of TM300 or HS300