Sounds pretty impressive to me. Jason posted the most important specs for it in his CES thread, so you can all read them there, or google it. Uses a new and smaller DC3 chip from TI that allows for lens shift, both vertical and horizontal, in a normally priced lens system. Other vendors will probably follow optomas lead here.

Imo, better news from CES than i had even hoped for. Will be interesting to hear what people whos seen it thinks about the Optoma.

Optoma has a pretty damaged PJ reputation. I am skeptical of their quality.

It may take one or two generations of PJs to turn it around. Though this PJ does look like a good start...

It would be definetly very interesting how it sounds...yes, sounds...I believe there are many good PJ., but on that is quiet like the Sonys in high-lamp-Mode with Pplight-POwer and Contrast...that is difficult.

Granted, the Optoma brand has a ****** reputation, and im not sure i would wanna buy one. The new TI chip holds much promise alone, so if anything similar comes along from another maker, id probably chose that over this. Having said that, the spec and price of this one does sound so appealing, im betting this will be a top seller. I might give them a try this time.
Im really eager to hear peoples impressions of this one.

Is this going to have a similar throw ratio to most of the current DLP's? Or will it have something more like the Marantz 15S1 or Planar short throw? Nice to see the lens shift option for sure. The HD80 I had was a nice punchy image, just an irritation to have to mount the screen so low. At least with this one that wouldn't be an issue.

Oh and any word on Anamorphic stretch mode? I'm sure it will have it since they've had it on pretty much all of their latest units.

How much is this pj? I am sure Optoma has worked themselves out of the mid/high market already. They still have a pretty good presence in the lower end market though.

5k (msrp)

The HD80 (which I own) was purchased as a temporary projector when I dismounted my 9' CRT. That was well over a year ago and I as well as many others (see HD80Thread) have been very pleased. I originally purchased based on PQ and then was instantly sold when I was told the price. The only problem was it's lack of flexibilty in installion, which I made work by a tight ceiling mount and a manul tilt of the projector.
Oh and it's white...
This new projector boasts 20k contrast (double the HD80) more flexability and a very sharp looking case IMO. Now, will it be as good as the 3 chip Lumis. I suspect not, but it's 30k cheaper.


How much is this pj? I am sure Optoma has worked themselves out of the mid/high market already. They still have a pretty good presence in the lower end market though.

Worked them self out in price only, their performance rivals many of the higher priced projectors. Which awesome for consumers, but probably not the ones that need the Cadilliac Crest.

JC

I am also a happy HD80 owner. From what I read here I just think most users will be gun shy to spend $5k (or whatever the street price will be) on another Optoma pj.

I saw the optima at CES. :D The booth they had it in was fully light controlled and they had it running through an anamorphic lens. They were running Indiana Jones IV while I was there. The movie looked pretty impressive. Optima always seems to run these demo's with an anamorphic lens at the trade shows. They always display well. Most of us don't own a lens set up yet so I don't think its fair to compare it to other 1080P projectors without them. The images I saw were great. With the lens in place you could not see any screen door and the image was bright enough that the wedding seen at the end of Indy was nearly uncomfortably bright. I also got demo's from Epson, Panasonic and a ton of micro projector companies. If the Optima ends up retailing for under $2.6k it will be a great value compared to the other new projectors just released. The panasonic with its anamorphic stretch mode was great looking too. Just not razor sharp. The colors looked very natural on it. The Epson 6500UB looked sharper than the Panny, and had awsome blacks on the Harry Potter scenes they were using for the Demo. Neither projector had the POP of a DLP display. I can only describe them as "muted" somehow in the way they compare.

I have had an HD80 since August 2007, and have had no problems whatsoever. I think the image is very nice, and will be looking at the HD8200.

I believe most were (or still are) sore about the H77, H78, H79 and of course the 81 models...

Is the HD8200 made by Optoma? I mean the naming has 4 digits instead of typical 2 digits (HDxx) like it was case with the HD7100.

Yes they had to make a ground up larger platform for the Ti dynamic black. The LED's they're working on will be even larger because the LED technology as of now is very bulky. If you saw Jason CES review with the LED FP you can see how big the machine needs to be.

"like it was case with the HD7100"
I'm pretty sure they made it before for that company, what was it medi/something?

Is this thing competetive with jvc projectors contrast-wise ? JVC specs only says 33k:1 for rs10 for example, and many 3lcd projectors (or lcos from sony) have higher contrast in specs but don't come close to JVC in reality. I wish those specs were more reliable and useful for judging the performance.

I'm getting one to test soon, what I'll look for is how bright it is in HT setting and how low the black level is. Plus how good the detail in black is for movies like Dark City, AVP etc. Wing did say the ANSI reading on this PJ was surprisingly high, near 700.1

I saw the 8200 and I thought it was amazing great depth, lots of punch and great blacks. Not as good as the RS20 blacks but good non the less. I think this PJ is not that far behind from the Lumis and believe that Sim2 has some serious competition with this PJ AND the LED Vivitek which I thought had the best picture at the show. I have lots of screenshots and HD Video that I took will post this week on many PJ's as I'm waiting for my plane at the airport as I type on my iPhone stay tuned :-)

Btw msrp is around $9k but I was told will street at $4999

Is it close to rs10 in blacks? How does it compare to rs20 or rs10 overall?

Hope the larger case also means a return to H79 noise levels.

Is it close to rs10 in blacks? How does it compare to rs20 or rs10 overall?

I haven't seen the RS10 but no it's not close to the RS20 in blacks.

I saw the 8200 and I thought it was amazing great depth, lots of punch and great blacks. Not as good as the RS20 blacks but good non the less. I think this PJ is not that far behind from the Lumis and believe that Sim2 has some serious competition with this PJ AND the LED Vivitek which I thought had the best picture at the show. I have lots of screenshots and HD Video that I took will post this week on many PJ's as I'm waiting for my plane at the airport as I type on my iPhone stay tuned :-)

Btw msrp is around $9k but I was told will street at $4999

Hey Chris you are Sim2's worst nightmare. You obviously love high end toys, have a beautiful home, are an A/V enthusiast and choose the JVC over the Sim2. You are also immune to the, "you don't prefer it because you can't hang with the big dogs" comments.

I am looking forward to your pictures and review of the Optoma and the Vivitek. OPtoma have earned a special place for me with their great PQ while keeping the costs low. I do think that average person buying the Lumis would not even consider the Optoma. It;s good to know that the A/V guys that want a great picture , but feel a little distressed when having to drop $40K for a projector can cuddle up to 85% of PQ while spending 13%.

Looking forward to the hi- def video!!

JC

I spent time watching the 8200 boh on Sat. and again Sunday. I too thought it looked excellent. Decent blacks, very bright, and great colors. And that crisp DLP look. A great machine for the money.

Hey Chris you are Sim2's worst nightmare. You obviously love high end toys, have a beautiful home, are an A/V enthusiast and choose the JVC over the Sim2. You are also immune to the, "you don't prefer it because you can't hang with the big dogs" comments.

The SIM C3X Lumis has to be the best projector picture I've seen yet. Especially when I got them to put the Spiderman Blu Ray on - stunning! Better than the HT5000. I spent time watching it and the HT5000 both on Sat. and on Sunday.

I spent time watching the 8200 boh on Sat. and again Sunday. I too thought it looked excellent. Decent blacks, very bright, and great colors. And that crisp DLP look. A great machine for the money.

thats another positive report for the Optoma !!! What's nice is it seems by those numbers that it can easily sustain a 10-12 foot screen, which is really exciting!!

Joey

This Dynamic Black auto iris is supposed to be pretty undetectable, those who saw the demo would you say that's true? You would need material that goes from day to night scenes and inbetween.

I see it has the new Pixelworks Motion engine chip

http://www.pr-inside.com/pixelworks-dnx-motionengine-technology-r996137.htm

"Pixelworks' DNX MotionEngine technology incorporated in the PW9800 chip uses proprietary MEMC (Motion Estimation and Motion Compensation) algorithms to significantly enhance the quality of the video delivered to large high-end LCD TVs, advanced projectors and other display products. The technology eliminates motion artifacts in high-resolution digital video content, often referred to as "judder," to ensure smooth playback"

Is that a first for DLP?

and some other info

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/optoma-hd8200-dlp

Pureshift sounds good.

So it sounds like this projector won't work for people who have to place the projector with the lens centered near the top of the screen on a shelf mount.

I hope I'm wrong since this looks like a sweet upgrade to my H77 (but my H77at least lets me put the projector on a high shelf mount).

any idea of colour wheel speed or any measures used to reduce the rainbow effect?

"So it sounds like this projector won't work for people who have to place the projector with the lens centered near the top of the screen on a shelf mount."

It depends on what exactly they mean by the lens shift spec; some mfgr's give referenced to the center of the screen and some from the top.

If it's not the latter, then they just shot themselves in the other foot re placement options.

I'm pretty sure they made it before for that company, what was it medi/something?
It is this: http://www.chilintech.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=250&pid_x=249

"So it sounds like this projector won't work for people who have to place the projector with the lens centered near the top of the screen on a shelf mount."

It depends on what exactly they mean by the lens shift spec; some mfgr's give referenced to the center of the screen and some from the top.

If it's not the latter, then they just shot themselves in the other foot re placement options.


FWIW, Optoma stated the HD80's offset spec as being 136%, with reference to the top of the screen. In practice I think its closer to 134.5 % according to their distance calculator.

I have seen the HD8200's vertical lenshift stated as 105 to 130 % but this was non-official publication.

This may be ceiling mountable even with a very long throw, unlike the HD80.

HD80 on table top, 6m away, top of image is 216 cm (7 feet !) above PJ lens.

HD8200 on table top, 6m away , (least lensshift offset is 105%) top of image is 30cm above PJ lens.

Given this range of lensshift, it should be possible to have the base of the image level with the lens, which is better suited to ceiling mounting ie. no need for a long drop pole if you don't have a very high ceiling.

Hopefully someone else can verify this interpretation/calculation.
The TR on the HD80 was 1.85-2.22:1, therefore the zoom is more powerful on this PJ (TR 1.495-2.28:1)

This PJ is a 6 segment colour wheel. the HD80 was 7 segment and 6x wheel speed. I wonder what speed this PJ is ?

Chris, thanks a lot for the info. We all really appreciate it. Have you seen an Infocus IN-83. I was about to buy one but would now like to see it compared to the HD8200. Thanks a lot for any comparison between the two.

+1 On placement info!

+1 On placement info! Will AVS carry this?:)

+ 1 for more shift info.

I have the center of my lens aligned with the top of my screen today. Will that work?

Also, how much horizontal shift does this one have?

This PJ is a 6 segment colour wheel. the HD80 was 7 segment and 6x wheel speed. I wonder what speed this PJ is ?

Will be interesting to estabish if they are all primary colour segments or if secondary colours are also present. This is a factor with regard how the "x" is calculated. If there is only one set of primary segments this halves the colour refesh rate relative to a wheel with two sets rotating at the same speed.

D

The 105-130 lens shift is stated on the brochure. The thing that jump out to me was the sharp highly dynamic picture and smooth processing. Because of the high ANSI of about 700:1 which is believable by looking at the demo it looked sharp but less grainy more polished than past product. It's an DC3 chip so hopefully it'll street for 3k.

What is the db noise rating of this PJ ?

"Pixelworks' DNX MotionEngine technology incorporated in the PW9800 chip uses proprietary MEMC (Motion Estimation and Motion Compensation)


Frame interpolation such as Sony's Motionflow ?

Ive never understood those shift numbers. 105 - 130 ?! what does it mean? can anyone please explain in detail? Is there a (working) placement calc avail for this one anywhere?

Ive never understood those shift numbers. 105 - 130 ?! what does it mean? can anyone please explain in detail? Is there a (working) placement calc avail for this one anywhere?


As I understand it, assuming the reference is to the top of the screen rather than the midpoint (as Optoma have previously done):

105% - 130% is the range of offset depending on the degree of vertical lenshift used; you subtract 100% from this as this is equivalent to the screen height at any given throw. The remainder % (eg. 130% - 100= 30%) is then multiplied by the throw distance in meters to derive the offset in meters.

eg. for 130% offset and 5m throw distance, the offset is 1.5 meters ie. (130-100)% x 5m= 1.5m offset.

eg. for 105% offset and 5m throw, the offset is 0.25 meters.

The 8200 is not yet listed in the distance calculator for Optoma USA website.

Wanted info:

The HD8200 is a RGB/RGB wheel at 6x speed, it uses the DC3 chip. It uses a 220watt lamp a new version with a tighter arc producing higher brightness, similar to if they used a 250watt bulb. I uses 2 pixelworks chips to handle the scaling / deinterlacing.

Offset with lens shift enables the center projector lens to be 5% or 30% of the screen height above or below a screen. Interesting thing is if you use 5% you get more contrast, if you go 30% you get more brightness / less contrast.

Wanted info:

The HD8200 is a RGB/RGB wheel at 6x speed, it uses the DC3 chip. It uses a 220watt lamp a new version with a tighter arc producing higher brightness, similar to if they used a 250watt bulb. I uses 2 pixelworks chips to handle the scaling / deinterlacing.

Offset with lens shift enables the center projector lens to be 5% or 30% of the screen height above or below a screen. Interesting thing is if you use 5% you get more contrast, if you go 30% you get more brightness / less contrast.

I stand corrected.

Offset with lens shift enables the center projector lens to be 5% or 30% of the screen height above or below a screen. Interesting thing is if you use 5% you get more contrast, if you go 30% you get more brightness / less contrast.

Tom... just for clarification: Are you saying that even for a shelf mount setup the lens could be above the screen?

(not sure I understand the 5% OR 30% part either... sorry)

Does anyone know if the 8200 will have a CMS, (that works!!)?;)

As I understand it, assuming the reference is to the top of the screen rather than the midpoint (as Optoma have previously done):

105% - 130% is the range of offset depending on the degree of vertical lenshift used; you subtract 100% from this as this is equivalent to the screen height at any given throw. The remainder % (eg. 130% - 100= 30%) is then multiplied by the throw distance in meters to derive the offset in meters.

eg. for 130% offset and 5m throw distance, the offset is 1.5 meters ie. (130-100)% x 5m= 1.5m offset.

eg. for 105% offset and 5m throw, the offset is 0.25 meters.

The 8200 is not yet listed in the distance calculator for Optoma USA website.

Im assuming this means that for a 5 m. throw, if you have the projector ceiling mounted, the top of the screen would have to be 25 cm beneath the center of the lens? If thats the case, it unfortunately renders this pj useless for me. To bad cos this one looks awesome :/

How much is this pj? I am sure Optoma has worked themselves out of the mid/high market already. They still have a pretty good presence in the lower end market though.

I was about to say... I love my HD65. It's incredible.

Tom... just for clarification: Are you saying that even for a shelf mount setup the lens could be above the screen?

(not sure I understand the 5% OR 30% part either... sorry)

If you shelf mount up above the screen the projector must be inverted and the center lens is a minimun of 5% of the screen height above the screen.

Don't know if everybody noticed but Optoma has a HD808 same platform 1080p coming after Febuary but using the Dark Chip 2 instead of Dark chip 3. It will retail for $1500 less, $3495.

Don't know if everybody noticed but Optoma has a HD808 same platform 1080p coming after Febuary but using the Dark Chip 2 instead of Dark chip 3. It will retail for $1500 less, $3495.

Tom,

Will you be getting both the 808 and 8200 in order to review/compare them? It's obvious the the contrast of the 8200 will be better, but I'd be curious to hear just how much extra performance that $1500 gets you in real world tests.

I know I'm getting the 8200 just found out about the other one today. I see they rate the HD808 at 15000.1 and the 8200 to 20000.1. DC3 is nice. :)

Im assuming this means that for a 5 m. throw, if you have the projector ceiling mounted, the top of the screen would have to be 25 cm beneath the center of the lens? If thats the case, it unfortunately renders this pj useless for me. To bad cos this one looks awesome :/

My bad ! The offset at 5m (using least lenshift) would be 6.2 cm ie. if you have the projector ceiling mounted, the top of the screen would have to be 6.2 cm beneath the center of the lens. Hope that would work for you now. Here's how I worked it out according to guitarman's statement:

TR of HD8200 is 2.28:1 .

At 5m throw, the image width is 2.20m, image height is 1.24m.

With least lenshift, offset is 105%. (105-100)% x image height (1.24m)= 6.2cm.

Will AVS carry this?

Give me a call or an email.

Really looking forward to this 8200. Have an old H79 which had some probs the first year, changed MB etc. but has now behaved perfectly the last years aside from the normal bulb changes (last one was at over 2800 hours). If this new model is at least as flexible as the H79, I will serously consider buying one.

As you all mention, it will have higher F/L, better blacks, 1080p etc. Chassis look very good, but PRAY that it will come in white...black is ok for those with a bat-cave, but I've mine in the livingroom ceiling.

Darn on the lens shift.

My lens is about 10% of a screen height below the top of the image. If I had a fixed screen I'd just tilt it, but I don't, so Optoma is still a no-go for me.

Darn on the lens shift.

My lens is about 10% of a screen height below the top of the image. If I had a fixed screen I'd just tilt it, but I don't, so Optoma is still a no-go for me.

To clarify the 130% is with 0% of horizontal lens shift used. You can use up to 15% of horizontal lens shift if you limit vertical LS to 105%. If its like my Benq then 130% would equal anywhere in the screen plane plus 30% of screen height above or below. Dave

Here's the brochure.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc330/coolrda/sc00388ac9.jpg

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc330/coolrda/sc0038aa7b.jpg

thanks coolrda

Has anyone that has seen this at CES, also seen the BenQ W5000/20000? Interested in your comparison.

Thanks.

Has anyone that has seen this at CES, also seen the BenQ W5000/20000? Interested in your comparison.

Thanks.

See Benq thread.

See Benq thread.

coolrda,

I see in the Benq thread that you also have an HD72. How does the 8200 compare to that?

I'm curious since I currently have the H77 and I'm wondering if the 8200 is worth the upgrade.

I am reading specs like DC3 and 220 Watt bulb...that are the specs of the Planar 8150. The optoma seems to bring more features and flexibility with is, but from a pure pictur quality: Di you believe it will be much different to the Planar (which git excellent reviews here in Germany, see cine4home.de )

To clarify the 130% is with 0% of horizontal lens shift used. You can use up to 15% of horizontal lens shift if you limit vertical LS to 105%. If its like my Benq then 130% would equal anywhere in the screen plane plus 30% of screen height above or below. Dave

the center of my lens is aproximately aligned with the top of my screen. Are you saying this will work?

Im not going to use much horizontal shift at all. Throw distance is aproximately 4 meters. screen size is 220 cm.

See Benq thread.

Which BenQ thread, I can't find any reference to the 8200 in the W5000 thread.

-edit Nevermind I found it, for some reason "8200" doesn't find any posts in that thread.

See Benq thread.

Thanks, Brah! Interesting. I do like the flexibility of the new Optoma, but the price of the BenQ might tip the scale. Hmmm.

From the info sheet that 'coolrda' posted, the dimensions of the HD8200 are stated as :

HD8200: W x H x D = 19.2" x 7.6" x 14.6"

From the picture of it, though, it looks to me like it's deeper than it is wide (no jokes). I wonder if those dimensions are incorrect or maybe if just the Width and Depth are switched.

The 20,000:1 contrast is with the auto iris correct? A DC3 chip can't give that native can it?

I saw it as well and thought it looked pretty nice. The epson's blacks were very nice on Harry Potter(much smaller screen than the optoma). The panasonic looked good as well. I thought the 8200 was one of the best and wonder if the street price might be less than THE $ 5000 mark.

The specs sheet on the previous page says that the HD8200 has 0,65" 1080p DarkChip3. Is that really correct? So far 1080p chips have been 0.95" so is this some cheap version? If it is I would expect we see this unit selling very cheap after a while. Now its pricing seem similar to the Benq W20000 which has original 0.95" chip.

I remember there was similar thing with the 720p chips (0.95" vs 0.65"), and when smaller chip was introduced that allowed really low cost units hit the market.

The specs sheet on the previous page says that the HD8200 has 0,65" 1080p DarkChip3. Is that really correct? So far 1080p chips have been 0.95" so is this some cheap version? If it is I would expect we see this unit selling very cheap after a while. Now its pricing seem similar to the Benq W20000 which has original 0.95" chip.

I remember there was similar thing with the 720p chips (0.95" vs 0.65"), and when smaller chip was introduced that allowed really low cost units hit the market.

TI is now producing a .65" 1080P chip, which should allow for reduced prices. It will also allow higher zoom ranges with smaller lenses, which again should reduce cost.

TI is now producing a .65" 1080P chip, which should allow for reduced prices. It will also allow higher zoom ranges with smaller lenses, which again should reduce cost.
What are the disadvantages of the smaller chip? I recall there was some in the 720p chips but I cannot remember what they were exactly.

What are the disadvantages of the smaller chip? I recall there was some in the 720p chips but I cannot remember what they were exactly.

I am sure there must be some disadvantage but I don't know off hand what they are. I recall reading about a disadvantage of higher enlargement ratios, which you would get with a smaller chip, but I can't remember what the issue was.

Biggest difference is no lens shift with the large chip. Picture wise you couldn't tell a difference between DC3 .65 and DC3 .95. What you could notice is the larger mirror would make a brighter picture. The Optoma uses a new bulb with a tighter arc that produces more light, like an adiitional 30%.

"To clarify the 130% is with 0% of horizontal lens shift used."

Doesn't matter, with 0% the lens still has to be above the screen.

For my setup, I have a shelf mount in the back of my theater room with the projector right-side up and the lens about 6" below the top of the screen. The screen is 120" diagonal in size (so about 60" in height).

That makes the he lens at about 10% below the top of the screen. My current projector (Optoma H77) allows me to dial down the vertical lens shift so that the picture fits the screen. I'm having a hard time figuring out from the numbers being thrown around here whether or not the HD8200 would allow me to do the same thing using the same setup.

Can anybody help me figure this out?

Nope the H77 was unusual it has a 100% movement. Right you could have the PJ image start out straight up on the ceiling and move it all the way down to catch up with a screen. It was wild when I first checked one out. The HD8200 lets think of it as a projector with a fixed offset say like the HD80 or HD81 etc, but this one will allow you to shorten the offset from 30% of the screen height to 5% of the screen height, that's either 5% over the top or under the bottom screen or 30% over /under but not within the screen area.

Tom what the the advantages of this projector over the HD80? Is it using a better lens?

What sort of real world differnces in PQ should we see?

I understand it's brighter, so it should be able to handle a larger screen and it has the ability to throw a larger picture from closer. The local dealer should have one in a month and I am looking forward to shoot out with the RS20 that he also has at the shop:D

Thanks Joey

Tom,

When is this due to hit the streets?

Scott

Tom what the the advantages of this projector over the HD80? Is it using a bes? lens?

What sort of real world differnces in PQ should we see?

I understand it's brighter, so it should be able to handle a larger screen and it has the ability to throw a larger picture from closer. The local dealer should have one in a month and I am looking forward to shoot out with the RS20 that he also has at the shop:D

Thanks Joey


It will be like a CRT projector that's very sharp, deep blacks with high detail in blacks and with over 700ansi it will have a 3d image effect. Dark scene movies should look excellent. This was the only problem DLP's had, blacks were on the hazy side.

Dealers should have some soon. Not allot but more would be on the way. From the way it's been is a couple of hundred come in right away, then the mother load shows up.

It will be like a CRT projector that's very sharp, deep blacks with high detail in blacks and with over 700ansi it will have a 3d image effect. Dark scene movies should look excellent. This was the only problem DLP's had, blacks were on the hazy side.

So better than the RS20....... Rs20 owners don't get mad, this is of course the Optoma HD8200 thread:) If it's better than the RS20 I'll buy it, if not I'll be buying the RS20.

You got to wonder how these Hot Rod companies like Sim2 are going to able to compete. Sure they have a $37,000 and $50,000 3 chip units, but that is a very niche market. The bread and butter has got to be this price range and they won't be able to compete. Optoma is making these things from the ground up. I.m sure Sim2 will soon debut their new $15,000 single chip:rolleyes:

JC

Biggest difference is no lens shift with the large chip.

I have an 1080p projector with the larger 0.95" chip and lens shift (+120% - -80%). :confused:

You got to wonder how these Hot Rod companies like Sim2 are going to able to compete. Sure they have a $37,000 and $50,000 3 chip units, but that is a very niche market. The bread and butter has got to be this price range and they won't be able to compete...
I.m sure Sim2 will soon debut their new $15,000 single chip

Sim2 Domino D60? But it is a lot cheap than 15k. Guess from what factory it is originally from. ;)


Optoma is making these things from the ground up.
Actually Optoma is very late on bringing their Dynamic Black products out. Benq already introduced the W5000 and W20000 one year ago. The W20000 is quite equalent to the HD8200. I undestood that the HD808 is same chassis as the HD8200 but with DC2 chip so it would be quite equalent to the W5000.

I have an 1080p projector with the larger 0.95" chip and lens shift (+120% - -80%). :confused:
Unless you have the planar 8150 im guessing you only have Vertical shift. This one also has horizontal.
The minimum 5% offset on this one renders it useless for me, but im guessing/hoping we will see alot of new similar products from other makers later on this year.

It will be like a CRT projector that's very sharp, deep blacks with high detail in blacks and with over 700ansi it will have a 3d image effect. Dark scene movies should look excellent. This was the only problem DLP's had, blacks were on the hazy side.

Dealers should have some soon. Not allot but more would be on the way. From the way it's been is a couple of hundred come in right away, then the mother load shows up.

I saw this at CES & reported in another thread, I thought it had as good a picture as the $35K Sim2 Lumis and on a much larger screen to boot. The Optoma was on a 140" width wheras the Lumis was on a 109" and I know screenshots are for fun but I took a few for people to compare. Even in the screenshots you can see what I'm talking about

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34271874@N05/

I saw this at CES & reported in another thread, I thought it had as good a picture as the $35K Sim2 Lumis and on a much larger screen to boot. The Optoma was on a 140" width wheras the Lumis was on a 109" and I know screenshots are for fun but I took a few for people to compare. Even in the screenshots you can see what I'm talking about

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34271874@N05/

Thanks for posting the images...

Wow, those are some very impressive screenshots(of which I am not normally a fan...) from the HD82

The fact that the Optoma could hang with the Lumis is very encouraging :D

Cheers

Wow! Thanks for your report & the pics Chris.

Unless you have the planar 8150 im guessing you only have Vertical shift. This one also has horizontal.

No I don't have the Planar but my point here was that the 0.95" chip size does not prevent lens shift.

Nor I don't understand arguments some made about lens sizes. For instance both my projectors (the HD80 and W5000) have 0.95" 1080p DLP chip. The other has fixed offset and the other one has lens shift but guess what, the one with lens shift has smaller lens. Obviously lens shift and lens size does not go hand in hand. I think it has more to do with lens quality.

Doesn't smaller chip actually require better quality small lens to be able to resolve as good resolution as the one using larger diameter lower quality lens?

No I don't have the Planar but my point here was that the 0.95" chip size does not prevent lens shift.

The 0.95" chip pretty much prevents horizontal shift as it requires a pretty large lens to achieve it. Vertical shift works well with it though.

The 0.95" chip pretty much prevents horizontal shift as it requires a pretty large lens to achieve it. Vertical shift works well with it though.
OK, but when someone talks about 0.95" chip preventing lens shift the first thing that comes to my mind is vertical lens shift.

Anyway I get what you mean but I wonder how much larger lens do you actually need if you want to employ horizontal shift too (in this case it's only 15%)? Is the lens used in the Planar's really huge?

Also isn't smaller lens that can actually resolve as much detail as large lens must be much higher quality than the bigger one? I mean can you really cut the cost by using smaller lens unless you aren't ready to make tradeoff in picture quality too?

Why vertical shift does not need larger lens?

Why vertical shift does not need larger lens?

Its due to the aspect ratio. The chip is 16:9, its alot wider than it is high so you have more room for movement up and down inside the circular lens, than you have sideways. The smaller chip will increase the vertical shift, and even opt for horizontal shift, given the same lens size.

Wing was telling me the smaller chip made it easier for them to add lens shift. Street price after a few months should be great on the two machines. A smaller chip should have about a 30% better / lower black level than the larger chip, throw in the aggressive iris and black level should be able to get quite low.

Chris, great pictures no hand shake, detail looks great and smooth too, can't wait.

coolrda,

I see in the Benq thread that you also have an HD72. How does the 8200 compare to that?

I'm curious since I currently have the H77 and I'm wondering if the 8200 is worth the upgrade.

Absolutely. I have a feeling it will street for $4000 maybe $3500. Obviously picture is excellent. What stood out in my mind was the uniformity of the picture with excellent edge focus. Having a 140" screen, even with a HE Panamorph, at what I guess was a 12ft throw was remarkable (very small cramped room).

Here's a iPhone screenie. Worthless, but I'll post it nonetheless. I can't seem to find a tripod for my phone.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc330/coolrda/IMG_0512.jpg

Absolutely. I have a feeling it will street for $4000 maybe $3500. Obviously picture is excellent. What stood out in my mind was the uniformity of the picture with excellent edge focus. Having a 140" screen, even with a HE Panamorph, at what I guess was a 12ft throw was remarkable (very small cramped room).

I asked a guy at the booth, msrp is closer to $10K and he said it will street at $4999 and nothing less.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc330/coolrda/IMG_0579.jpg

I asked a guy at the booth, msrp is closer to $10K and he said it will street at $4999 and nothing less.

Its well worth $5k.

Its due to the aspect ratio. The chip is 16:9, its alot wider than it is high so you have more room for movement up and down inside the circular lens, than you have sideways. The smaller chip will increase the vertical shift, and even opt for horizontal shift, given the same lens size.
Yes but can you really get the same performance out of the same lens by using the smaller chip (I don't think that lenses have unlimited resolution)?

Yes but can you really get the same performance out of the same lens by using the smaller chip (I don't think that lenses have unlimited resolution)?

AFAIK, you get better performance by doing so. Lenses got nothing to do with resolution, and im thinking we are getting of topic btw.

Im hoping BenQ will be using this chip in their next release. I would replace my W10000 with the Optoma had it not been for the damn 5% offset.

Its well worth $5k.I hope it will be, but I would like to see how it compares to the current BenQs and the Sharp 20k before being confident of that.

--Darin

Considering it's an Optoma, they've really improved on the looks.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/optoma-hd8200-dlp/image

AFAIK, you get better performance by doing so. Lenses got nothing to do with resolution, and im thinking we are getting of topic btw.

This is getting a bit side track like you said but I find this interesting and I definitely must admit I have different understanding about lenses. Are you basically saying that as long as the chip size is the same you can get what ever resolution out of the same optics? For instance (just hypothetic example) you have an old VGA resolution pj and new 1080p chip happens to be same size as original one you could get full resolution of the the old optics.

Thats what im saying

Thats what im saying
And you will get all the resolution without it anyway being blurred? Interesting indeed and I find it hard to believe. If that's the case I guess we'll should probably soon see for instance the updated version of the Optoma HD70 with full hd chip inside.

If the size of the chip is larger, a larger lens had to be used. Like the one in the HD80 for it's .95 chip, they had to find a platform with the larger lens so they used the EP910. The two dark chip 3's will produce the same quality image. Ti saves on down sizing so the customer gets a break on the price. Blacks should be better with the newer chip because of the smaller sized reflection, something to consider. Then again the .95 in the HD80 should be brighter. Could be good, could be bad. :)

The key thing we are all excited about here and I know you know it is the Ti Dynamic Black system. It should change all the negatives of needing better blacks on the earlier models HD80 /xxx models included.

I saw this at CES & reported in another thread, I thought it had as good a picture as the $35K Sim2 Lumis and on a much larger screen to boot. The Optoma was on a 140" width wheras the Lumis was on a 109" and I know screenshots are for fun but I took a few for people to compare. Even in the screenshots you can see what I'm talking about

I thought the HD8200 looked very good too, but lets not get carried away. I doesn't look as good as a 3 chip DLP. The C3X Lumis looked much better. But for the money, the HD8200 looks very good. One has to remember they were also using an anamorphic lens on the HD8200 too.

"Blacks should be better with the newer chip because of the smaller sized reflection, something to consider."

The brights are smaller sized as well, so same CR other things equal.

But they're not; the smaller DMD has a greater ratio of mirror edge length (which causes diffraction/scatter) to mirror area, so if anything CR/blacks would be worse.

My engineer buddy said you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between the 2 dark chip 3's. I expect even better blacks without the anamorphic lens which is how I'll be testing it. I really don't think we'll be wanting for blacks with this machine, who knows maybe it will be all washed out with hazy blacks.

The two dark chip 3's will produce the same quality image.

What has changed since 720p chip times where smaller chip was not considered as good?

Do you know are the both chips equally fast, meaning can you run the color wheel at the same speed and have as many wheel segments with either of them?

BTW. Why this new model only has 6 segment wheel (any idea how fast it is spinning)?


The key thing we are all excited about here and I know you know it is the Ti Dynamic Black system. It should change all the negatives of needing better blacks on the earlier models HD80 /xxx models included.
It should make a huge difference if they have implemented it anywhere near as well as Benq did and used similar IRIS as they did. Do you know does Optoma use fast "stepless" IRIS in this new model (not the same very slow "click, click, click" stepping model like in the HD8x series)?

"Blacks should be better with the newer chip because of the smaller sized reflection, something to consider."

The brights are smaller sized as well, so same CR other things equal.

But they're not; the smaller DMD has a greater ratio of mirror edge length (which causes diffraction/scatter) to mirror area, so if anything CR/blacks would be worse.
Do you know was that the reason with the older 720p chips where the smaller one was consider worse than the bigger one? Or was there some other reasons too? I remember that the bigger chip was definitely considered better but I cannot remember what all the reasons were.

Nope the H77 was unusual it has a 100% movement. Right you could have the PJ image start out straight up on the ceiling and move it all the way down to catch up with a screen. It was wild when I first checked one out. The HD8200 lets think of it as a projector with a fixed offset say like the HD80 or HD81 etc, but this one will allow you to shorten the offset from 30% of the screen height to 5% of the screen height, that's either 5% over the top or under the bottom screen or 30% over /under but not within the screen area.
Lens shift range in the HD8200 is advertised as 105-130% (specs sheet does not say +/- but I assume it is) but it cannot do 100% movement, so how does it work actually? Does it go both ways (up/down)? Shouldn't you be able to have screen top below the lens or screen bottom above the lens or anywhere in between if lens shift range is over 100% as advertised?

Since it has +/-15% horizontal shift, the lens should be plenty big to have at least 100% vertical shift. Am I missing something here?

Shift range isnt advertised as over 100%. The shift range is advertised as between the minimum and maximum offset, wich is between 5% and 30% of your projected image height. If you are projecting onto a 1 meter high screen, the top of the screen will have to be placed 5 - 30 cm beneath the center of the lens. The more vertical shift you use, the less horizontal can be applied. Someone correct me if im wrong.

Shift range isnt advertised as over 100%. The shift range is advertised as between the minimum and maximum offset, wich is between 5% and 30% of your projected image height. If you are projecting onto a 1 meter high screen, the top of the screen will have to be placed 5 - 30 cm beneath the center of the lens. The more vertical shift you use, the less horizontal can be applied. Someone correct me if im wrong.
Do you mean that vertical lens shift only moves one direction and is practically only 25% and that you cannot place lens center within image area?

If so then it does not make any sense. I thought the smaller chip should have allowed more lens shift, like I was told, and since this one has even horizontal lens shift there should have been room for at least 100% vertical shift easily. Even the Benq W5000/20000 units have +120% - -80% vertical lens shift and they have smaller lens than the Optoma HD80 which does not have any kind lens shigt. I must have missed something here because I don't get it?

Does anyone know if this thing is 3D ready? I read in the specs that it's 480hz, so all it has to do is be able to accept a 120hz signal. They've had 3D ready Rear Pro for a couple of years, I wonder what the hold up is? My next projo is gonna have to be 3D.

My engineer buddy said you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between the 2 dark chip 3's. I expect even better blacks without the anamorphic lens which is how I'll be testing it. I really don't think we'll be wanting for blacks with this machine, who knows maybe it will be all washed out with hazy blacks.

The lens would not affect black level at all. What it would (theoretically) affect is simultaneous CR, however when Cine4Home tested an anamorphic lens on the AE3000, they found the difference in simultaneous CR (ANSI in their case) to be negligible.

Does anyone know if this thing is 3D ready? I read in the specs that it's 480hz, so all it has to do is be able to accept a 120hz signal. They've had 3D ready Rear Pro for a couple of years, I wonder what the hold up is? My next projo is gonna have to be 3D.


Do you have a link to the '480hz' info?

I'd be really interested to know this as well. If the HD8200 is 3D-ready, I can't see myself being able to hold back from making this my next projector later this year.

I was told by a rep at CES that the unit will list for $5K.

I was told by a rep at CES that the unit will list for $5K.
That sounds a bit high because it is cheaper than that even in Europe where these usually are higher priced.
The HD82 (The HD8200 euro version) MSRP in UK seems to be £2,999.95 (about $4.360).

Do you mean that vertical lens shift only moves one direction and is practically only 25% and that you cannot place lens center within image area?
Thats how i understand it, yes.

If so then it does not make any sense. I thought the smaller chip should have allowed more lens shift, like I was told, and since this one has even horizontal lens shift there should have been room for at least 100% vertical shift easily. Even the Benq W5000/20000 units have +120% - -80% vertical lens shift and they have smaller lens than the Optoma HD80 which does not have any kind lens shigt. I must have missed something here because I don't get it?
By adding horizontal shift, they are wise to limit the vertical shift. The Optoma should have plenty placement flexibility for most. BenQ does a larger vertical shift range but doesnt do horizontal at all. Pretty much all the makers do this differently, so whats so difficult to understand? Imagewise, the Optoma should be far superior over the BenQ`s. Hopefully BenQ will have something competitive coming though, as the Optomas offset is not for me.

Thats how i understand it, yes.

Sounds pretty crippled lens shift to me then.


Pretty much all the makers do this differently, so whats so difficult to understand?

Because of horizontal lens shift this should have large enough lens to have more range in vertical direction too (as far as I understand they already limit horizontal range if vertical is in use), that's why this lens shift seems quite weird to me. Not very placement friendly.


Imagewise, the Optoma should be far superior over the BenQ`s. Hopefully BenQ will have something competitive coming though, as the Optomas offset is not for me.
I see no reason why this should be far superior over the W20000 (which is DC3 as the HD8200). I have the W5000 myself and even that is stunning and hugely better than my HD80. IMHO the Benq's are the most underrated pj's at this moment.

Sounds pretty crippled lens shift to me then.

Better than the 36% fixed offset they normally use. And I made InFocus' 15% fixed offset work in my 7'6" HT without resorting to keystone. So 5% should be a breeze.

Because of horizontal lens shift this should have large enough lens to have more range in vertical direction too (as far as I understand they already limit horizontal range if vertical is in use), that's why this lens shift seems quite weird to me. Not very placement friendly.

Vs what?

What has changed since 720p chip times where smaller chip was not considered as good?

Do you know are the both chips equally fast, meaning can you run the color wheel at the same speed and have as many wheel segments with either of them?

BTW. Why this new model only has 6 segment wheel (any idea how fast it is spinning)?


It should make a huge difference if they have implemented it anywhere near as well as Benq did and used similar IRIS as they did. Do you know does Optoma use fast "stepless" IRIS in this new model (not the same very slow "click, click, click" stepping model like in the HD8x series)?

The wheel is RGBRGB 6x speed. It uses Ti's dynamic black iris system like the one in the Planar 8150. Part of why the projector is so big is due to Ti's dynamic black. I do find it interesting that Ti's engineers devised this iris system and not the individual companies. I guess they know their chips better for timings gamma etc. It's a pretty advanced system that they were compelled to do with LCD's gaining ground like they were. It sure took them a while.

Key things to think of is Ti's Dynamic Black, the 6x wheel and the huge 700 ANSI CR number. Pretty good stuff, all I want to see now is how deep the blacks are and what kind of detail shows up in the blacks :)

Where's my machine!

You don't have any idea what the "native" static CR is for this do you? The W5000's got a rather lame ~1000-1500:1 "native". Seems like a rather large step back from earlier models.

Sounds pretty crippled lens shift to me then.
Because of horizontal lens shift this should have large enough lens to have more range in vertical direction too (as far as I understand they already limit horizontal range if vertical is in use), that's why this lens shift seems quite weird to me. Not very placement friendly.
Normally you wouldnt need alot of horizontal lens shift. You do your best to place the lens centered above the screen, then you use the shift to get it 100%. This is VERY useful.

I see no reason why this should be far superior over the W20000 (which is DC3 as the HD8200). I have the W5000 myself and even that is stunning and hugely better than my HD80. IMHO the Benq's are the most underrated pj's at this moment.

Im biased towards BenQ myself, i have a W10000. I still think the Optoma will blow the 20000 out of the water. Against the lower end BenQs (W5000/W9000/W10000) there will be no contest. Just read what Chris said about it.

FYI, the european reference is Optoma HD82.

Found the datasheet for the lower-cost HD808 coming in April...

nice change from Optoma they have regain some market share eaten by sony jvc and lcd come back
dlp has lost a lot of market share vs lcos and crappy lcd
it's too bad because dlp remains king of the very important ansi contrast
for instance
anyway anyone knows the real luminosity of this machine and some pdf specs anywhere ?
thanks

According to UltimateAVmag.com, the 8200 uses a different implementation for lens shift. “The new HD8200 takes lens shift one step beyond normal. Called PureShift, the Optoma shifts the entire light engine up to 20% left/right and 30% up/down, keeping the light path in the center of the lens.”

Link here: (http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2009/optoma_hd8200/)

"Do you know are the both chips equally fast"

Now that you mention it, the smaller mirrors will be able to flip at higher freq, unless the electronics are the limiting factor.

"Do you know was that the reason with the older 720p chips where the smaller one was consider worse than the bigger one? "

Besides diffraction, you lose less light filluminating a bigger chip.

"I do find it interesting that Ti's engineers devised this iris system and not the individual companies."

My guess is that it's a pretty complicated system because of DLP's off-axis optical path, and that TI wanted to make sure it was done right and as quickly as possible to save their asses from LCD and DILA/SXRD.

"The new HD8200 takes lens shift one step beyond normal. Called PureShift, the Optoma shifts the entire light engine up to 20% left/right and 30% up/down, keeping the light path in the center of the lens.”

Sounds like marketing BS; if you move the whole optical engine it's no longer centered.

You can shift the image by translating the lens or the optical engine; in this case they chose the latter, probably because it's easier/cheaper to implement.

I think it's going to be a mother beautiful projector. After reading what my friends wrote after seeing it a CES and knowing how hard Optoma works on giving what we want. Very bright with great blacks / detail in blacks. The most out of the DLP venue we can get, next up LED machines with the same results only way better. Keep em coming Optoma.

Oh I left out the key differences, the lowest prices you've ever seen. The old days you would be seeing $15,000 maybe $10,000. Those days are gone thanks to who? :)

Oh I left out the key differences, the lowest prices you've ever seen. The old days you would be seeing $15,000 maybe $10,000. Those days are gone thanks to who?

I have been saying that all along, and as soon I viewed the HD80 I realized that Optoma is a player. I wouldn't be surprized if we never see another single chip over 8k. Unless of course it's LED

JC

Vs what?
Vs. like the Planar or Benq (similar products with the Dynamic Black).

Normally you wouldnt need alot of horizontal lens shift.

I know and I don't value horizontal lens shift much myself. I was only referring to a fact that this unit having even a horizontal lens shift it should have plenty big lens so that real vertical shift would have been possible.


You do your best to place the lens centered above the screen, then you use the shift to get it 100%. This is VERY useful.

Basically only useful if you ceiling mount. About picture height +/- lens shift is something what I consider a real vertical lens shift (as the one in the "equalent" Planar and Benq models). There are many other ways to place the pj and ceiling mounting is not my number one choice.


I still think the Optoma will blow the 20000 out of the water.
...
Just read what Chris said about it.

I'll wait for real reviews or go test it myself (rather in my own living room) before making up my mind or make statements like that.


Against the lower end BenQs (W5000/W9000/W10000) there will be no contest.
I think there is no point comparing the W9000/10000 models because they are an old generation and they do not have the gimmics of these new machines. It is like comparing the W5000 and the Optoma HD80 against each other which I did in my own living room. The Benq won and was better in all areas. No wonder when you compare an advanced DB model to an "ancient" one.

You should compare similar machines against each other like the W5000 model should be comparered to the HD808, and my bet is they are pretty equal (Optoma probably is brighter which they usually are).

Again I would not make any final conclusions yet based on the information we now have.

About picture height +/- lens shift is something what I consider a real vertical lens shift (as the one in the "equalent" Planar and Benq models). There are many other ways to place the pj and ceiling mounting is not my number one choice.
Im not sure Optoma designs their shift based on your placement preferences. Alot of people ceiling mount, and when designing something like this, you obviously cant please everyone.

I'll wait for real reviews or go test it myself (rather in my own living room) before making up my mind or make statements like that.You do that.


I think there is no point comparing the W9000/10000 models because they are an old generation and they do not have the gimmics of these new machines. It is like comparing the W5000 and the Optoma HD80 against each other which I did in my own living room. The Benq won and was better in all areas. No wonder when you compare an advanced DB model to an "ancient" one.The W5000 and the W20000 are old aswell. The fact that BenQ hasnt made them work properly untill recently due to their firmware issues, doesnt make them new. As far as im concerned, BenQs latest and greatest was a dissaster and should best be forgotten.

You should compare similar machines against each other like the W5000 model should be comparered to the HD808, and my bet is they are pretty equal (Optoma probably is brighter which they usually are).I think you are putting to much into the DarkChip revision number.

Again I would not make any final conclusions yet based on the information we now have.If you read again, no final conclusions were made. Chris` report, aswell as the product specs, has given me great hope for this machine. Im sure alot of others feel the same way.

I do think its great that you are happy with BenQ - Like you said in an earlier post, i to believe they are underrated. I do however sense the same fanboy-ism in your posts one would expect on sites like ign, where the shitkids are claiming "my ps3 beats your 360" and vice versa. Its okay to be sceptic, but you have to realize technology moves forward, and this machine was announced almost 18 months after BenQ announced the W20000. Considering this, and that it will be Optomas new top model, it should be better by default.

.65 1080p DMD looks like same size was used in DLP RPTV.
DLP projector in year 2009 without 3D and RGB Phlatlight LED is a big mistake of TI and Optoma.

I'm not sure I'd call that a big mistake. How many 3D projectors for home theater are there really? How many Phlatlight LED projectors? How many that can compete with the HD8200 in picture quality? How many that are as affordable as the HD8200? Honestly, I have to admit that I don't even know of any.

THIS populist-oriented Optoma, especially of its estimated final street price - looks like a model that would smash the Planar 8150 and the Infocus IN83 - both of which does not have a democratized pricing and is restricted on their availability. Those of us who could not aspire to take both of those names mainly because of a limited budget, is likely to find in the near season a cheaper, more brilliant DLP alternative. Optoma should adopt the Panasonic price-breakthrough tack - $2,500 for the PTAE3000 - and survived comfortably in the mere 40,000 units a year front projector market, amidst a recession.

Im not sure Optoma designs their shift based on your placement preferences.
...
Alot of people ceiling mount,

Well alot of peoples don't ceiling mount, not just me.


...and when designing something like this, you obviously cant please everyone.

Sure they could please almost everyone easily, just include fully working vertical lens shift.
My point here was that it would not have taken much more resources to add real vertical lens shift insted of crippled one.


The W5000 and the W20000 are old aswell. The fact that BenQ hasnt made them work properly untill recently due to their firmware issues, doesnt make them new. As far as im concerned, BenQs latest and greatest was a dissaster and should best be forgotten.

Well what counts is that Benq has fixed all the firmware glitches and it is ready now.

Are you expecting that the Optoma is certainly problem free, especially with brand new platform? In the past I have seen many problems with them so I have first hand experience.

Also I have no idea what you are talking about Benq latest (I assume you mean the W5000/20000) being a disaster. I have owned several projectors (including couple Optoma's, which actually were disaster for me) and used and tested even more and I must admit I never had so good projector as the W5000.


I think you are putting to much into the DarkChip revision number.

I believe that when it turns out that TI is no longer making the bigger chip and/or even respected brands and models only use the smaller one.


If you read again, no final conclusions were made.

Well you sure sounded like that but good to hear I understood you wrong and you actually realize that we cannot really say much about this unit.


I do however sense the same fanboy-ism in your posts one would expect on sites like ign, where the shitkids are claiming "my ps3 beats your 360" and vice versa.

I fanboy :confused: I'm far from that. If you read my posts you'll see I hardly ever talk anything nice about any product I own because I hardly find any product so good that it is worth to tell about it.

Also I don't like the tone of your messages at all. What I'm sensing here is that you are running out of arguments and you start making personal remarks like the one above.


Its okay to be sceptic, but you have to realize technology moves forward, and this machine was announced almost 18 months after BenQ announced the W20000. Considering this, and that it will be Optomas new top model, it should be better by default.
You are missing something here. What I find amazing is that Benq has announced their DB products 18 months ago (I thougt it was 1 year ago but it does not matter) and Optoma has just now announced theirs. ;)

In my books the one producing the similar product much later than the others is not neccessarily the best, or even better. I consider them being late. ;)

"Blacks should be better with the newer chip because of the smaller sized reflection, something to consider."

The brights are smaller sized as well, so same CR other things equal.

But they're not; the smaller DMD has a greater ratio of mirror edge length (which causes diffraction/scatter) to mirror area, so if anything CR/blacks would be worse.

Exactly

THIS populist-oriented Optoma, especially of its estimated final street price - looks like a model that would smash the Planar 8150 and the Infocus IN83 - both of which does not have a democratized pricing and is restricted on their availability. Those of us who could not aspire to take both of those names mainly because of a limited budget, is likely to find in the near season a cheaper, more brilliant DLP alternative. Optoma should adopt the Panasonic price-breakthrough tack - $2,500 for the PTAE3000 - and survived comfortably in the mere 40,000 units a year front projector market, amidst a recession.

huh :confused:

Let's not let this degenerate into "my dog's better than yours!"

Every product made is a series of compromises that are made for cost, distribution, and marketing.

I am glad Optoma is still in the market and trying to compete... I don't know if this projector will be as great as Tom thinks... but I sure hope he is right!

The more quality competition the better for all of us.

Of course many of these speculations will be given air when the production models make it into the hands of reviewers that are respected by most.

The wheel is RGBRGB 6x speed. It uses Ti's dynamic black iris system like the one in the Planar 8150. Part of why the projector is so big is due to Ti's dynamic black. I do find it interesting that Ti's engineers devised this iris system and not the individual companies.I am confident that Planar played a big role in their implementation of DynamicBlack. TI did devise quite a bit, but unless Planar gave their stuff to TI (maybe as part of an agreement) I don't think other companies just get all of what Planar has for their implementation.

It is possible that all of Optoma's implementation is TI's doing though.

--Darin

Let's not let this degenerate into "my dog's better than yours!"

Every product made is a series of compromises that are made for cost, distribution, and marketing.

I am glad Optoma is still in the market and trying to compete... I don't know if this projector will be as great as Tom thinks... but I sure hope he is right!

The more quality competition the better for all of us.

Of course many of these speculations will be given air when the production models make it into the hands of reviewers that are respected by most.

I couldnt agree more. I hope Kris Deering will be reviewing this one.

Oh I left out the key differences, the lowest prices you've ever seen. The old days you would be seeing $15,000 maybe $10,000. Those days are gone thanks to who? :)

Let me take a stab. Sony, Panasonic, Epson, and JVC (to a lesser extent). Did I leave anyone out?

I am confident that Planar played a big role in their implementation of DynamicBlack. TI did devise quite a bit, but unless Planar gave their stuff to TI (maybe as part of an agreement) I don't think other companies just get all of what Planar has for their implementation.

It is possible that all of Optoma's implementation is TI's doing though.

--Darin

Ti's part of the invention is about 70% the mechanic's they came up with of the chip and iris system they keep guarded. The individual companies handle the last 30% of implementation for their different projectors.

I was told the HD8200 will have 3 choices of use, Off, Cinema 1 and Cinema2. One of the Cinema choices will be very aggressive while the other medium aggressive. Like one is for a bat cave and the other for a room with some light in it. Wing says it's very hard to see or hear anything happening, the Iris changes are frame by frame. This is not anything like the Iris put on the H8x series, that they just added while waiting for Ti to finish up the Dynamic Black.

"Sure they could please almost everyone easily, just include fully working vertical lens shift.
My point here was that it would not have taken much more resources to add real vertical lens shift insted of crippled one."

Either you're mistaken or Optoma is stupid.

If they could have done it easily = w/o a significant cost impact, they would have.

I just wanted people who have seen or own the BenQ W20000 to know that this new Optoma is in another league, it's just that good. I will repeat, it is almost as good as the $35K Sim2 Lumis but at a much lower price range & the only reason I thought the Sim2 looked a tad better is because it was shown on a 109" screen & the Optoma on a 140" yet it held well, real well.

I was a DLP owner for many years until the RS1, now I have the RS20, I would buy this unit in a heart beat and being a JVC (LcOS) owner now for the last 2 years I just may go back to DLP with this Optoma who knows, it's that good trust me, my eyes don't lie.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34271874@N05/

I just wanted people who have seen or own the BenQ W20000 to know that this new Optoma is in another league, it's just that good. I will repeat, it is almost as good as the $35K Sim2 Lumis but at a much lower price range & the only reason I thought the Sim2 looked a tad better is because it was shown on a 109" screen & the Optoma on a 140" yet it held well, real well.

I was a DLP owner for many years until the RS1, now I have the RS20, I would buy this unit in a heart beat and being a JVC (LcOS) owner now for the last 2 years I just may go back to DLP with this Optoma who knows, it's that good trust me, my eyes don't lie.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34271874@N05/

Chris........

Was the screen 140" diag. or Width?

Do you know whose lens they were using and which model?

thanks

Chris,

Hahaha, seems you already got upgraditis and you've had your projector how long? A month?!? :eek: ;)

Well, I would do the same if I had enough cash to spend and it's actually quite a cheap hobby compared to your cars. :D

The Optoma sounds very promising indeed and I love the look of DLP. But why, why, why can't they add motorized zoom/focus/lens shift? :( I need it badly to to do CIH. (A-lenses doesn't work for me as they crop subtitles...)

Ok, if you had the projector mounted on a bokshelf or a stand it would be possible to manually adjust the settings, although a bit of a hassle, especially to get the focus right, but with this offset the projector goes to the ceiling. Bringing in a ladder everytime there is a shift in aspect ratio isn't in the category acceptable inconveniences... :rolleyes:

Just have to hope BenQ have something interesting up the sleeve that can match Optoma with motorization. (It is a bit ominous though that they discarded the motorization that was present in W9000/10000 in their current models (W5000/W20000)).

When is it coming out, and will it sell anywhere for $4k or below?

I just wanted people who have seen or own the BenQ W20000 to know that this new Optoma is in another league, it's just that good.

I certainly hope to test this observation :D

Chris........

Was the screen 140" diag. or Width?

Do you know whose lens they were using and which model?

thanks

It was width, I'm not sure on the lens but I believe it was a Panamorph.

According to UltimateAVmag.com, the 8200 uses a different implementation for lens shift. “The new HD8200 takes lens shift one step beyond normal. Called PureShift, the Optoma shifts the entire light engine up to 20% left/right and 30% up/down, keeping the light path in the center of the lens.”

Link here: (http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2009/optoma_hd8200/)

Thats very good. Shouldn't impact light or contrast at all then if that is correct. Normally lensshift gives poorer light output or decreased contrast levels. This implementation should not be affected. Cool.

THIS populist-oriented Optoma, especially of its estimated final street price - looks like a model that would smash the.. ..amidst a recession.

I must be dyslexic because I thought this was political at first, then I realized that you did actually said "Optoma". Shall we call this PJ the Obama HD8200 :rolleyes:

"Normally lensshift gives poorer light output or decreased contrast levels. "

ANSI CR is improved w/shift on the Planars and new JVC's (about 50% according to Darin) because in the centered position light is reflected directly back from the lens into the optical path.

"If they could have done it easily = w/o a significant cost impact, they would have.

This has been my thought about lens shift. Features = cost and compromise. I prefer to have to be a little creative in PJ placement for a no compromise image that I am still willing to pay for - as long as it's still do-able.

When is it coming out, and will it sell anywhere for $4k or below?


Febuary launching, these will go to Cedia outlets and the MAP will be $4999. If you have a good relationship with a Cedia rep I suppose you could work a deal.

The other model HD808 will go to retailers / stores AVS Partners like Projector People and Visual Apex etc. It will be MAP $3499 but same thing goes, work a deal on the phone. Oh AVS can get the HD8200 also, please try to deal with AVS if you can.

Oh AVS can get the HD8200 also, please try to deal with AVS if you can.

AVS is spreading there influence around nicely. I think by doing this it should give us more accurate reviews and comparisons. It can be a tricky balanicng act (selling and reviewing), but the more companies they represent the more impartial they can be.

JC

I thought $5k was the MSRP ? Won't any of them sell on ebay or "shady" sites below that? Like mitsubishi hc7000 has $4k MAP but it's on ebay for $3k and at one site for even less.

What's so different about DC2 vs. DC3?

I thought $5k was the MSRP ? Won't any of them sell on ebay or "shady" sites below that? Like mitsubishi hc7000 has $4k MAP but it's on ebay for $3k and at one site for even less.

I always call my favorite company and talk turkey, do some bartering we grew up on it in New York, it works. Dealers stand the chance of losing the account if they advertise under MAP. It happened to me when I was unloading Dupont lighters on Ebay, Dupont pulled my ticket lol.
You'll get a deal by private conversation, call them all up. But don't post I got it from these guys at $3400 or you'll get them in trouble.

You see nobody cares about deals made in private. It's publicized ones that stir up trouble, you know dealers trying to make a living etc. :)

What's so different about DC2 vs. DC3?

Both should look great, it's the dynamic black that's the key ingredient here. Taking away the haze effect in very dark filmings. Ok DC3 can produce a lower black, maybe 25% lower, maybe less. As long as haze is gone both should look great.

[QUOTE=Drexler;15606461]Chris,

The Optoma sounds very promising indeed and I love the look of DLP. But why, why, why can't they add motorized zoom/focus/lens shift? :( I need it badly to to do CIH. (A-lenses doesn't work for me as they crop subtitles...)

Bringing in a ladder everytime there is a shift in aspect ratio isn't in the category acceptable inconveniences... :rolleyes:

The only projector today that works well without vertical stretch and without anamorphic adapter is Panasonic's AE3000. Its robotic lens control allows you to set zoom, focus, and vertical position into non-volatile projector memory for easy re-call.

:( Downside: Panasonic has consistently used smooth-screen to achieve image like film. Smooth-screen blurs pixel borders, and unfortunately many of us don't like it because it appears to blur the picture as well.

Motorized focus is almost a necessity IMO. Standing close to the screen with the remote in hand and finetuning is very user-friendly.

emf,

Well, I prefer the look of DLP and am a bit afraid of dust issues with LCDs.

Motorized zoom/focus/lenshift would be good enough for me even though it would be very convenient with presets like the AE3000.

Today I have a BenQ w9000 with a motorization that works perfectly. I have also made the simple zoom modification for extended zoom range which allow the zoom method for CIH to work. My only concern with the W9000 is that I want a lot more contrast and preferably a bit more brightness as well.

However, I don't know any other DLPs that could work for CIH zooming so far...

Both should look great, it's the dynamic black that's the key ingredient here. Taking away the haze effect in very dark filmings. Ok DC3 can produce a lower black, maybe 25% lower, maybe less. As long as haze is gone both should look great.


Thanks Tom. Seems that's the only difference between the 8200 and the 808. I might be able to save a few bucks by going with the 808 when it's available. That is of course if the throw is short enough, I've only got 9'6" from projector to screen for a 92" image.

Thanks Tom. Seems that's the only difference between the 8200 and the 808. I might be able to save a few bucks by going with the 808 when it's available. That is of course if the throw is short enough, I've only got 9'6" from projector to screen for a 92" image.

Bri, you won't be able to fill your screen with this projector assuming that you don't have any more space to place the projector after the 9'.6". These new Optomas have a 1.49 - 2.28 throw ratio. If you multiple 1.49 x screen with (in your case 80.2) = 119.5" / 12 = 9'9". That only leaves you 3 good inches to place the 14 + inches projector.

I had a similar problem with my setup, where only the Marantz 11S2 / 15S1 where the only DLP pjs that could work in my room. I ended up getting an 15S1 which by the way throws a beautiful image.

Bri, you won't be able to fill your screen with this projector assuming that you don't have any more space to place the projector after the 9'.6". These new Optomas have a 1.49 - 2.28 throw ratio. If you multiple 1.49 x screen with (in your case 80.2) = 119.5" / 12 = 9'9". That only leaves you 3 good inches to place the 14 + inches projector

Hey, thanks for that. I should be all set though. I've actually got a little more room than than that if need be (which apparently is the case). I can probably go to 10' or so.

Do you need to account for how far back you're putting your projector when considering the offset?

I'm trying to figure out if I can make the 8200 work in my setup:

I have a 120" diagonal screen (so the screen height is 59"). I have couches in a stadium seating formation in line with the middle of the screen, so placing it up high in an inverted position is my only option. At the smallest offset (105%), I would need the lens to be about 3 inches (5% of 59") above the top of the screen. I hope I am calculating this correctly so far.

In my setup, I'd probably have the projector about 18ft. back from the screen. My main question is does moving the projector closer or farther away change the offset calculation or is it a constant 3 inches?

Also, does anybody have any ideas for inverting a projector on a shelf while still protecting the cover from scratches? I know it sounds a little unconventional, but I'm currently using a shelf mount and don't really want to have to mess with buying/installing a ceiling mount.

I have a 120" diagonal screen (so the screen height is 59"). I have couches in a stadium seating formation in line with the middle of the screen, so placing it up high in an inverted position is my only option. At the smallest offset (105%), I would need the lens to be about 3 inches (5% of 59") above the top of the screen. I hope I am calculating this correctly so far.

Sounds like it.

In my setup, I'd probably have the projector about 18ft. back from the screen. My main question is does moving the projector closer or farther away change the offset calculation or is it a constant 3 inches?

It usually doesn't. If it did, they'd have to give offset in terms of throw than screen height.

I just wanted people who have seen or own the BenQ W20000 to know that this new Optoma is in another league, it's just that good.


Chris, have you seen the Marantz VP-15S1?

If you did, How do you compare the 8200 with the Marantz?

I just wanted people who have seen or own the BenQ W20000 to know that this new Optoma is in another league, it's just that good. I will repeat, it is almost as good as the $35K Sim2...
Would you elaborate in detail in what areas the Optoma is so superior (and how and in what conditions you compared them)?
I realize it is obviously blindingly bright and has high contrast but what else?
Do you know does the HD8200 have CCA or CMS? How about scaler and deinterlacer?

Also, does anybody have any ideas for inverting a projector on a shelf while still protecting the cover from scratches? I know it sounds a little unconventional, but I'm currently using a shelf mount and don't really want to have to mess with buying/installing a ceiling mount.I didn't want to use a ceiling mount either so I built an open box and used the top board as the ceiling. I simply drilled holes in the board to match the projector's mounting nuts and used spacers to ensure some air flow. I also placed a fan behind the projector and the shelf is open at the bottom sides so it gets plenty of fresh air.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1856/hd80041xv1.jpg

I didn't want to use a ceiling mount either so I built an open box and used the top board as the ceiling. I simply drilled holes in the board to match the projector's mounting nuts and used spacers to ensure some air flow. I also placed a fan behind the projector and the shelf is open at the bottom sides so it gets plenty of fresh air.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1856/hd80041xv1.jpg

That's pretty sweet.

But I don't think I have room to do something like that. I'm thinking, since the HD8200 doesn't have any air holes on top, that I could just get some kind of foam to put on the shelf that the top of the projector could sink into when inverted... as long as the air holes on the side do not get covered up in any way.

Dont laugh, but I used a bag full of beans to place my Optoma H31 upside down on a shelf.......

I'm thinking, since the HD8200 doesn't have any air holes on top, that I could just get some kind of foam to put on the shelf that the top of the projector could sink into when inverted... as long as the air holes on the side do not get covered up in any way.I think you would be better off using tall plastic feet (from Home Depot or such) with double sided tape to attach them to the projector's top. Then use business cards to square it to the screen.

That's pretty sweet.

But I don't think I have room to do something like that. I'm thinking, since the HD8200 doesn't have any air holes on top, that I could just get some kind of foam to put on the shelf that the top of the projector could sink into when inverted... as long as the air holes on the side do not get covered up in any way.

I have some experience with this, as I did this type of mount in my last place with a Sharp XVZ3K. Keep in mind that the 3K runs hotter then many, but unless you have some open space below it for air to flow, you might run into problems. I learned this the hard way. I finally ended up using rubber corks and then I put a vornado zippi fan, set on low, behind it. Never had a problem again.

Hoep this helps.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.... and the warnings about there being enough airflow between the projector and the shelf.

I will look into the 'tall rubber/plastic feet' solution. That may work if I can secure them to the shelf in some way.

Also, I had asked a question earlier in the thread that seems to have gotten lost or maybe is not answerable by anybody yet but here it is again:

I notice in the info sheet that the dimensions of the 8200 are listed as (W x H x D) = (19.2" x 7.6" x 14.6"). But from the pictures this thing looks to be longer in depth from back to front than it is wide... as if the W = 14.6" and the D = 19.2".

Am I reading the dimensions incorrectly? Is 'Width (W)' measured usually from back to front? Or is the picture not representative of the actual projector?

Something's off, the PJ's looks rectangle front to back. I'll get one next week or the week after for sure, I'll confirm it then with other important things. They're going to let me buy this one if I like it. I'm stoked

Chris, have you seen the Marantz VP-15S1?

If you did, How do you compare the 8200 with the Marantz?

No, but I've had the oportunity to see the 11S2 just shortly before I went to CES and going by memory here the Optoma stood out much more on a much larger screen. Awesome depth to the image was the first thing that stood out plus its brightness was stellar. Great sharpness as well although I couldn't tell if it was as sharp as the 11S2 but it sure seemed so. I'm sure Guitarman will give you all an in depth review real soon, I went by memory.

Is there a manual iris on the Optoma, in addition to the DI? I really like that feature on my W5000, to improve the black level since I don't need all the available brightness.

No, but I've had the oportunity to see the 11S2 just shortly before I went to CES and going by memory here the Optoma stood out much more on a much larger screen. Awesome depth to the image was the first thing that stood out plus its brightness was stellar. Great sharpness as well although I couldn't tell if it was as sharp as the 11S2 but it sure seemed so. I'm sure Guitarman will give you all an in depth review real soon, I went by memory.

I have a 95" diag 16:9 screen 1.3 (alleged) gain.
I beleive the lesser brightness wouldn't be an issue with this screen size.

Still no word on whether this will have a Color Management System?

This sounds like a great projector. Has anyone gotten any further information yet? I know the 8200 was scheduled for end of January and we are almost there.

If Optoma's past record of reliability is going to be taken into account, I'd really wait. I had units where lamps failed at 1000 hours and way past the 90 days with Optoma hiding behind the 90-day lamp warranty when they can.

If lamps "only" lasting 1000 hrs is the worst problem with this machine, I'd be very happy with it.

Still no word on whether this will have a Color Management System?


It will probably have Rec709 etc settings and grayscale should be excellent for each type of Rec. I'll check for sure next week with the Wing.

If lamps "only" lasting 1000 hrs is the worst problem with this machine, I'd be very happy with it.

Yeah, seriously. On my last projector, I wound up swapping out the lamp after 700 hours anyway (rated for 2,500 or so). The image was unacceptably dim by that point.

Does anyone have any info on what the "PureMotion" technology is? Is it something useful like dark frame insertion or is it just frame creation, or...?

-edit, looks like the Pixelworks coprocessor they're using does frame interpolation. It would be interesting if dark frame insertion were included too, and I hope there's a way to turn off interpolation.

Does anyone have any info on what the "PureMotion" technology is? Is it something useful like dark frame insertion or is it just frame creation, or...?

-edit, looks like the Pixelworks coprocessor they're using does frame interpolation. It would be interesting if dark frame insertion were included too, and I hope there's a way to turn off interpolation.From what I've read the Epson 6500UB uses Pixelworks technology for their frame interpolation and it isn't getting very good reviews (including compared to Panasonic's implementation). Epson may be pushing Pixelworks to improve it for them, which could help other manufacturers using it. But could take some time even if they can fix it.

--Darin

Yeah, I've got zero interest in frame interpolation.

It will be like a CRT projector that's very sharp, deep blacks with high detail in blacks and with over 700ansi it will have a 3d image effect. Dark scene movies should look excellent. This was the only problem DLP's had, blacks were on the hazy side.

Dealers should have some soon. Not allot but more would be on the way. From the way it's been is a couple of hundred come in right away, then the mother load shows up.


I have the old H31 and have been waiting for YEARS for a better DLP black level.

I'd appreciate any info on the black level of the new Optima 8200 that you may give us. CRT close hopefully?

;-).

It's not close to rs20 in blacks, and rs20 is still no crt. But I guess it has other strengths that seem to make it more impressive than rs20 to a few people.

Is the Optoma HD8200 THX certified like the JVC RS20/750HD ?

Is the Optoma HD8200 THX certified like the JVC RS20/750HD ?

No.

That's a minus for optoma.

Why?

lol...THX certification is a joke and means nothing. Anybody wanna buy a bridge? :D

That's a minus for optoma.

Yeah, why? Look at how many excellent performing projectors manufacturers don't have the THX logo/certification not to mention speakers, amplifiers etc.,etc. Is that a minus for them as well?

I'm not too big on THX certification myself. Especially after the years of watching NAD release an incredible amp one day and then release the SAME exact one with the THX logo for a few bills more. I now prefer to buy without the THX logo because I think it's frivolous to spend extra money for certification on something that is no different than without it. Anyone can designate and market a new standard to charge manufacturers for certification. Who's to say that Lucas is the final authority. I say user experience reports and my own eyes are the final authority, and that's all the certification I need - and it's free.

For those that seen it, how far is it behind epson 6500ub in blacks? How would it compare to mitsubishi hc6000 in blacks?

I would be afraid to form an opinion of how they compare until some real reviews come out where they are compared in a single environment. Shouldn't be much longer if you can wait.

It's not close to rs20 in blacks, and rs20 is still no crt. But I guess it has other strengths that seem to make it more impressive than rs20 to a few people.


unfortunate. I can wait a few more years then. eventually we will get there I assume.

If history is any guide, Optoma will be the first to the dance with these new dlp technologies and then later all the really pretty girls will show up and tell Optoma how to do it right.

If Optoma makes it look good, others will blow us away.

If Optoma's past record of reliability is going to be taken into account, I'd really wait. I had units where lamps failed at 1000 hours and way past the 90 days with Optoma hiding behind the 90-day lamp warranty when they can.

Other than consuming bulbs at the rate of 46 cents per projector hour my H79 has worked flawlessly for 46 months and is on it's 4th bulb.

46 cents per hour?? For me that is way too much, especially for how much it would get used. The Epson E-Torl lamps should be between 8 to 10 cents per hour. Dang, I was hoping the HD8200 would be it for me.

I'll chime in with another positive Optoma experience since they get bashed a little around here. I've had my H77 for almost four years. I'm on my second bulb at about 750 hours. The first one lasted for about 1700 hours before it started to go... and that was with it running in high mode for the last 700 hours or so.

The projector has worked flawlessly so far for me. I would personally consider Optoma for my next upgrade.... and the 8200 could very well be it (if I still have a job later this year :)).

46 cents per hour?? For me that is way too much, especially for how much it would get used. The Epson E-Torl lamps should be between 8 to 10 cents per hour. Dang, I was hoping the HD8200 would be it for me.

Hopefully the new 8200 will have a better bulb life than the H79.

Heck, when my friends come over to watch movies, their wine consumption equals $ 20.00 / hour ( or more ) - never mind the bulb !!!

I'll chime in with another positive Optoma experience since they get bashed a little around here. I've had my H77 for almost four years. I'm on my second bulb at about 750 hours. The first one lasted for about 1700 hours before it started to go... and that was with it running in high mode for the last 700 hours or so.

The projector has worked flawlessly so far for me. I would personally consider Optoma for my next upgrade.... and the 8200 could very well be it (if I still have a job later this year

My H79 worked fine too. And I have 2 friends with H31's that they've used for years now !!

46 cents per hour?? For me that is way too much, especially for how much it would get used. The Epson E-Torl lamps should be between 8 to 10 cents per hour. Dang, I was hoping the HD8200 would be it for me.For a lot of people depreciation of the projector alone will be much higher than 46 cents per hour of use. $4000 at 4000 hours would be $1/hour.

--Darin

Heck, when my friends come over to watch movies, their wine consumption equals $ 20.00 / hour ( or more ) - never mind the bulb !!!


Then you don't need a very good projector as they all look the same at that rate. :) :)

Then you don't need a very good projector as they all look the same at that rate.

Maybe if you're drinking 2 Buck Chuck - these friends expect better ( more expensive ) wine unfortunately !!

I'm a happy owner of an HD79 as well (in the UK).

The only issue as has been mentioned is the bulb life. Anyone know how much they will typically be?
I don't want to find out they'll be twice the price of the HD79 ones!

Here's the way you buy a lamp for your H79, auction 260351635229 $165. You take the lamp out of the 737 case and install it in your H79 case.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79bulb.jpg

This 250watt lamp is in a ton of DLP projectors, many Optoma PJ's, Infocus uses the 250 watt also.

Look around for business projectors that use a 250watt UHP, you can get your leads at projector central mostly they list the lamp and type.

For some reason you can just find the business PJ's bulb for allot less money.

I just got this email from Optoma

The HD8200 has been oficially released. It is being sold exclusively through our CEDIA distributor AVAD.
Please use the link below for a location near you. Simply click on the locator link from the main page. AVAD has a branch in Clairemont area of San Diego.

us.avad.com

Give them a call and ask for a dealer you can work with.

I'm currently on the road but let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,
Miguel Lomeli
National Sales
Optoma

I'm on my way to my local dealer to pick it up now. I will post pictures of the unit, and my first impressions later tonight if anyone is interested.

Josh

I know I'd love to hear your impressions. And especially any thoughts relative to any other projectors you've seen/owned.

Jason, does this mean you'll be getting one soon? You mentioned March in another post.

Here's the way you buy a lamp for your H79, auction 260351635229 $165. You take the lamp out of the 737 case and install it in your H79 case.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79bulb.jpg

This 250watt lamp is in a ton of DLP projectors, many Optoma PJ's, Infocus uses the 250 watt also.

Look around for business projectors that use a 250watt UHP, you can get your leads at projector central mostly they list the lamp and type.

For some reason you can just find the business PJ's bulb for allot less money.

Thanks guitarman. It appears as though this is a one-time deal and that I couldn't really count on getting them for this when I would need to though.

For a lot of people depreciation of the projector alone will be much higher than 46 cents per hour of use. $4000 at 4000 hours would be $1/hour.

--Darin

Excellent point. My kids will be using a PJ for gaming as well as being the primary TV for everyone, so for me depreciation is much less of a factor than for other people. It will be used about 45 hours per week. If I sell if for $500 after 5 years, that would be ($4000 - $500)/11700 hours = 30 cents/hr depreciation. Or if I'm still satisfied with it and continue to use it for another 5 years, that would be $4000/23400 hours = 17 cents/hr depreciation.

I expect that I could find a deal on a lamp for $250 when I need to. If the lamp would last at least 1500 hours, the lamp costs would amount to 17 cents/hr. Although that is 70% to 120% more and than the E-Torl, I could still live with it, but not 45 cents/hr for the lamp alone. How long could I expect the 250W UHP lamps to last?

In 5 years from now there will probably be digital projectors with true blacks, lasers, 3d and 21838x12095 resolution to propery support the purple-ray disks

In 5 years from now there will probably be digital projectors with true blacks, lasers, 3d and 21838x12095 resolution to propery support the purple-ray disks

I'm holding out for the cosmic-ray discs....just watch out for leakage.

Gimmie the olds days with my first JVC VCR with the mickey mouse metal buttons. Seeing recordings I liked being replayed on my Sony Trinitron tube TV. So easy so simple, football games and James Bond VHS tapes. Blacks and contrast was good, things were so much more simple then. ;)

Now I got wires all tangled (you've seen my Tom with wires picture sig tag) it's all too much stress really. Ah the olds days :)

I just got it home - unboxed it and quickly fired it up. I haven't had a chance to fool around with any picture settings, but I'm extremely impressed with what I have seen so far.

I'm using a 92" Stewart Studiotek 130 and just upgraded from a very long in the tooth Sharp XV-Z10000. The difference is night and day. I saw a demo today of a RS2 on a Draper Cinemascope screen with Schneider glass, and the image on this projector seems sharper with more pop. It is also quite bright, but I haven't calibrated it to D65 yet.

I know screenshots are pretty worthless, but I plan on setting up the tripod later on all the usual scenes (Dark Knight, Casino Royale etc.)

Let me know if anyone is interested in seeing them.

Josh

I am.
You think it's significantly better than rs2 overall or not? I'm sure hd8200 doesn't have blacks as deep as rs2, but did that fact stand out or are optoma's blacks close enough not to matter?

I'm interested.

How is the fan noise in both modes?

Is your screen 92" diag. or wide?

My last projector was also the Sharp XV-10000U but I haven't viewed it since I sold it 1.5 years ago.

Wow you beat me out. Glad you like it.

I have no need to replace a lamp because I've gone through three HD-81's and three HD81-LV's since November of 2006, so I can count on the projector failing long before the bulb.

I hope the 8200 is more reliable than my and many others ownership experience with the HD81 series. I've never had to take advantage of a warranty as much as with these projectors.

I have high hopes that the Optoma HD8200 will be my first 1080p projector.

Looking for:

1. The sharpness of a BenQ W5000 (without the image noise that the one that I returned had).

2. The OOTB color of a Panny 100, 200 or 3K (good enough for me).

3. The blacks of the Panny 3K (good enough for me).

4. Frame interpolation that will totally eliminate the judder in Iron Man, between scenes 12:32-12:37 ( the Panny 3K that I returned eliminated only 70% of the judder in these scenes).

Lastly, I want the HD8200 that Optoma is sending guitarman, to review on this forum.....not one randomly taken from a pallet in some warehouse.

It is hard to say whether it is significantly better than an RS2 without a side by side comparison. I was very impressed with the Cinemascope presentation I saw of the RS2 yesterday watching the opening sequence from Iron Man. However, after some extended viewing on the Optoma last night - I came away feeling that the RS2's picture is considerably softer. I'm sure the on\off contrast of the Optoma isn't as high as an RS2 - but to me the blacks on the Optoma are dark enough for it to not really matter. Color in referece mode was quite nice, with good skin tones. The color temp in warm mode was a little too warm. I will say that this projector is really bright, with more light then I have ever had in my room. I'm in the process of building my dedicated space, and will definately look into room treatments and dark ceilings. I had a lot of light bouncing off of a white celing last night, but was still really impressed with the image the Optoma was throwing.

This Dynamic Black auto iris is supposed to be pretty undetectable, those who saw the demo would you say that's true? You would need material that goes from day to night scenes and inbetween.

I played around with the Dynamic Black last night. It has two settings and the owners manual does not describe the difference betweeen the 2 of them. It definately improves the contrast, but I will say it is not completely undetectable. There were a few scenes I watched where I could see some flickering while the iris was adjusting going from a dark to brighter image. I was hoping for it to be undetectable, but that is just not the case. I did ask my wife if she saw it - and then I replayed a scene for her to notice it. She didn't see anything and just thought I was crazy.

Where's the pics??? Did you see my questions a few post above? Thanks! :)

What's the fan noise like? It's also early to be asking heat / bulb questions, but that would be my concern with any new Optoma.

I'm interested.

How is the fan noise in both modes?

Is your screen 92" diag. or wide?

My last projector was also the Sharp XV-10000U but I haven't viewed it since I sold it 1.5 years ago.

Tom-
Sorry I missed your question above.

The fan noise is very low. I didn't get a chance to ceiling mount it yet, so it was on a stand directly behind me and 1ft above my head - I could barely hear the fan. It sure gives off alot of heat though. The screen is 45x80 with a 92" Diag. This projector is really too powerful for such a small screen, and I'm looking to go with a 115" + Cinemascope screen.

I didn't spend too much time shooting pictures last night as I was just enjoying the wonderful picture. I took a couple of fast hand held snapshots that didn't turn out too well. The exposure time was too long without a tripod. I have a Canon 5d Mark II that should really be able to capture what I am seeing on screen. I will set up the tripod tonight and try to get some really nice screenshots. Does anyone here have experience with screenshots? Any recommended exposure and aperture settings would be helpful. With the lens wide open I can't get the full screen in focus - I'm thinking f7.1 might be a good compromise.

Jcole,

What is it about the 8200 that makes it so 'night and day' better than the Sharp XV-Z10000?



I'd also be curious to hear from anybody how much better the 8200 is when compared to the 720p Optomas from a couple of years ago like the H78DC3 and H79.

My only worry is that there is light leakage from the back of the unit. The vent on the rear of the unit is wide open without any type of filter, and you can see right into the backside of the optical path. This seems like a problem not only for light control, but dust control as well. Is this normal for an Optoma or did my unit ship without a filter that should have been there?

Jcole,

What is it about the 8200 that makes it so 'night and day' better than the Sharp XV-Z10000?



I'd also be curious to hear from anybody how much better the 8200 is when compared to the 720p Optomas from a couple of years ago like the H78DC3 and H79.

I haven't watched anything on the Optoma except 1080\24p Bluray's coming from a PS3, so I can't comment on the difference with SD or HD via cable\sat. But the difference with 1080p sources is staggering. The resolution (sharpness, clarity, contrast, dimensionality) The Sharp crushed blacks, and is quite dim and dull in comparison. It truly is night and day. The Sharp doesn't even look like it is a HD projector in comparison. I do have to say that my XV-Z10000 setup wasn't optimized for sharpness because I had a nasy case of Moire with my microperf screen. Therefore, I was forced to slightly defocus the Sharp to eliminate the moire.

I haven't watched anything on the Optoma except 1080\24p Bluray's coming from a PS3, so I can't comment on the difference with SD or HD via cable\sat. But the difference with 1080p sources is staggering. The resolution (sharpness, clarity, contrast, dimensionality) The Sharp crushed blacks, and is quite dim and dull in comparison. It truly is night and day. The Sharp doesn't even look like it is a HD projector in comparison. I do have to say that my XV-Z10000 setup wasn't optimized for sharpness because I had a nasy case of Moire with my microperf screen. Therefore, I was forced to slightly defocus the Sharp to eliminate the moire.

So, you had watched blu-rays from your PS3 on your Sharp and you're able to see a big improvement with the Optoma?

Jcole, can you confirm what color management controls are available?

So, you had watched blu-rays from your PS3 on your Sharp and you're able to see a big improvement with the Optoma?

That really is an understatement. My wife could care less about picture quality, and didn't understand why I would waste money upgrading our projector. When she saw the picture on the Optoma she was blown away. She said I didn't realize a picture could be that much better.

This is not an incremental improvement from my 720p HD2 projector. It truly is night and day.

Jcole, can you confirm what color management controls are available?


RGB Gain/Bias
Red Gain
Green Gain
Blue Gain
Red Bias
Green Bias
Blue Bias

Gamma
Film
Video
Graphics
Standard

Color Temp
Warm
Medium
Cold

My only worry is that there is light leakage from the back of the unit. The vent on the rear of the unit is wide open without any type of filter, and you can see right into the backside of the optical path. This seems like a problem not only for light control, but dust control as well. Is this normal for an Optoma or did my unit ship without a filter that should have been there?

Wow. That is bright back there. Looks like a lot of light leakage. Can you contact Optoma? It would be nice to let them know about it before they start shipping the unit.

Wow. That is bright back there. Looks like a lot of light leakage. Can you contact Optoma? It would be nice to let them know about it before they start shipping the unit.
That light leak does look awful for a home theater projector. Also, being able to see the iris is disappointing.

Wow. That is bright back there. Looks like a lot of light leakage. Can you contact Optoma? It would be nice to let them know about it before they start shipping the unit.

I just got this message back from Optoma regarding the light leak at the back of the unit.

Hello Josh,

I am glad to hear of your new purchase. Congratulations!

I know that you are going to enjoy it very much.

And be reassured that our DLP designs do not use any filters. What you see is normal for this product.

Thanks for your message and comments.

Please let me know if you ever have any more questions.

Best Regards,

Miguel Lomeli
Optoma Technology, Inc.
National Sales Manager

I'm surprised that this is normal. Has anyone seen anything like this on previous Optoma's?

Well, for 5k or what have you I wouldn't buy it. Such a shame:rolleyes: Next......

I just got this message back from Optoma regarding the light leak at the back of the unit.

Hello Josh,

I am glad to hear of your new purchase. Congratulations!

I know that you are going to enjoy it very much.

And be reassured that our DLP designs do not use any filters. What you see is normal for this product.

Thanks for your message and comments.

Please let me know if you ever have any more questions.

Best Regards,

Miguel Lomeli
Optoma Technology, Inc.
National Sales Manager

I'm surprised that this is normal. Has anyone seen anything like this on previous Optoma's?

The back vent area is the exhaust so there's no dust going in there. At the intake there is no filter, the optical path is sealed. Light spill is more of a problem when it's the front of a projector. Most designs you'll see some spill on the sides which isn't that bad either.

Can't you cover it up with some cartboard or may be foam?

I will set up the tripod tonight and try to get some really nice screenshots. Does anyone here have experience with screenshots? Any recommended exposure and aperture settings would be helpful.
this post might be helpful (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15663321&postcount=549)

It's got an official product page now:
http://www.optomausa.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=407

Josh Z, I see they mention ISF CCC and Day/Night modes, so it sounds like there's a CMS.

Jcol, Wing says he prefers cinema1 dynamic black which is less agressive, cinema 2 is ok if you have a bat cave. He says blacks are already so low in either mode and It would take some expensive light reading equipment to read the level. Also there's a AI chioice in the menu's, it works the bulb bright to dim. You could try it but I never liked the effect.

I was just going to ask about that, the Manual makes it sounds like there are two controls "BW Expansion" (sp?) which has two settings, and Dynamic Black, which has On/Off, is that the case, and Josh, is DB what you were playing with?

And I'm still curious about the PureMotion options, is there dark frame insertion in there, or just On/Off? I assume there's an Off right?

And has anyone tried the AUTO235? Does that automatically vertically stretch 2.35? That would be awesome.

Oh, and one more, do all the AR controls, specifically Letterbox and 4:3 (vertical and horizontal stretch respectively) work on all inputs/resolutions?