The Kuro in the new Home Theater Mag Feb 09 shoot out won hands down. They preferred (as well as the new Sound and Vision) the XBR8 over the 950. The best bang for you buck? The Panny.

Kuro also just won the Product of the Year in S&V.

Some Quotes:
"Ranking the Sony and Panny in the second and third spots were more problematic - Each had strength's and weaknesses. That made it a toss up for me in terms of performance" If money weren't an object, I'd go for the pioneer. If budgets were tight, I'd go with the Panny. The LCDs were both impressive, but neither one beat the Pioneer.

"Overall, the Pionner Plasma outperformed all others. The TV's depper black levels, truer gradations of color, and excellent handling of standard def content, set it above the rest.

"The Pioneer looked great on pretty much everything. I want one! One of my TVs is a well calibrated rear pro CRT, so I'm pretty well aquainted with deep blacks. The pioneer satisfied me and then some, thanks to it's fantastic detail".

"It's not surprising that the Pio came out on top for me. You simply can't trip it up. Every set here had flaws that could be drawn out consistently with certain types of program material, except the pioneer."

"The Panny was the underdog being compared with TVs that were twice and almost three times it 2500 price tag. It's performance was only slightly off the level of the other TVs".

They all were in love with the Sony XBR8 saying it produced fantastic black levels and the same par with the Kuro.

Sony XBR8
Rich blacks and fine shadow detail, superb resolution, minor video processing issues, poor off-axis viewining

Pioneer Elite
Blacks, Blacks, Blacks. Accurate color, crisp resolution, consistent with all programming material, video processing short of the best

Samsung 950
Good blacks, color, and resolution, superior video processing, poor off-axis performance

Panny 800U
THX certfied, good color and impressive detail, at it's best with 1080p source

I'm not sure why they didn't use the Panny 850u which is much more tweakable
This is what I would buy.

Kuro
Panny
XBR8
Samsung 950

Now let's do the same with a reality check: $2000 limit. If there is no price limit, why not include professional studio gear?

Only the Panny 800u would make that cut.

Odd they'd include an 800U in the shootout and not a 5020/6020 with the pricing similarities.

Guess we won't see citation of 950/XBR8 reviews from HTMag as the Kuro killer anymore ;).

Would have been cool if they'd added the Sharp XS1 to the mix.

Is this shootout available online, or is it print only?

Should be online in a few weeks, they keep some exclusives in print for a while.

Kuro, the black elephant in the room.

No surprise who came out on top. Most of those that have done the actual comparisons came to the exact same conclusion.

Personally, I think it should look like this.

Kuro
850U
800U
XBR8
950


and this is how it should look soon:

Kuro
Neo-PDP's
xbr8
950

Now let's do the same with a reality check: $2000 limit. If there is no price limit, why not include professional studio gear?

This comparison was about performance not price.

No surprise who came out on top. Most of those that have done the actual comparisons came to the exact same conclusion.

Personally, I think it should look like this.

Kuro
850U
800U
XBR8
950


and this is how it should look soon:

Kuro
Neo-PDP's
xbr8
950



This comparison was about performance not price.

I agree with you 1000%!!!!

I have spent extensive time with every consumer display currently available.

The Kuro (in any form) is the finest by a sizeable margin.

I own an XBR.

James

I have spent extensive time with every consumer display currently available.

The Kuro (in any form) is the finest by a sizeable margin.

I own an XBR.

James

Same conclusion for me as well, and I too own an XBR.

posts deleted et al

No surprise who came out on top. Most of those that have done the actual comparisons came to the exact same conclusion.

Personally, I think it should look like this.

Kuro
850U
800U
XBR8
950


and this is how it should look soon:

Kuro
Neo-PDP's
xbr8
950



This comparison was about performance not price.
My eyes put the XBR8 above the 800, although there's no arguing which offers the most bang for buck.

No shocker here. My 151 continues to amaze me.

Cool. This was the exact set of panels I wanted to see included in a shootout. You've got the top 2 plasma makers and the top 2 lcd makers, at least on reputation.

So for those of you who said the Kuro the best and yet own an XBR, why? The XBR8 is not exactly an inexpensive set.

Cool. This was the exact set of panels I wanted to see included in a shootout. You've got the top 2 plasma makers and the top 2 lcd makers, at least on reputation.

So for those of you who said the Kuro the best and yet own an XBR, why? The XBR8 is not exactly an inexpensive set.

Probably because they don't own a XBR8 and instead own a model in the XBR series. This is to prevent people of accusing them from being Pioneer fanboys, which seems to happen a lot. :D

Cool. This was the exact set of panels I wanted to see included in a shootout. You've got the top 2 plasma makers and the top 2 lcd makers, at least on reputation.
As far as LCD is concerned, the expensive Sharp XS1 is regarded as better.

So for those of you who said the Kuro the best and yet own an XBR, why? The XBR8 is not exactly an inexpensive set.
I'm guessing because some usage situations favour LCDs over plasmas.

Great shootout. I wish they tested the 850U, but other then that I agree with the article.

Now let's do the same with a reality check: $2000 limit. If there is no price limit, why not include professional studio gear?

Professional studio gear isn't something that you can go down to the local showroom and demo as it appears they were looking to test the best available panels to the consumer and the ones they chose for the most part seem realistic. :)

Professional studio gear isn't something that you can go down to the local showroom and demo as it appears they were looking to test the best available panels to the consumer and the ones they chose for the most part seem realistic. :)

Your post is correct and I admit that my comment about the professional gear was not meant as a practical suggestion to start looking for TVs where ABC, CBS and NBC goes shopping. Rather, it was my way of saying: where in the world do people find 5 or 6k for a TV set? Or, let me re-phrase it: I assume that most AVS posters can actually find funds like this. My point, which perhaps was not conveyed clearly, is that I would have really hard time justify spending additional 5K over and above the 1600 I spent on LN52A550 as a point of reference for both the price and performance. I like a good picture as much as the next guy but I personally fail to see the increment of improvement the top sets offer for the increment of price they command.

Most likely it is the age thing. Once you get as close to retirement as I am, the priorities change a lot. When I was 20 something, I could and did get into debt to get my dream car. Not today.

Your post is correct and I admit that my comment about the professional gear was not meant as a practical suggestion to start looking for TVs where ABC, CBS and NBC goes shopping. Rather, it was my way of saying: where in the world do people find 5 or 6k for a TV set? Or, let me re-phrase it: I assume that most AVS posters can actually find funds like this. My point, which perhaps was not conveyed clearly, is that I would have really hard time justify spending additional 5K over and above the 1600 I spent on LN52A550 as a point of reference for both the price and performance. I like a good picture as much as the next guy but I personally fail to see the increment of improvement the top sets offer for the increment of price they command.

Most likely it is the age thing. Once you get as close to retirement as I am, the priorities change a lot. When I was 20 something, I could and did get into debt to get my dream car. Not today.


I'm in my 20's and I feel the same way. I think the Kuro's have a beautiful picture. I prefer the plasma look. However, if I couldn't justify the 700 more than my pz80 for a 5020, there's no way I could justify 5000 more for an Elite.

There's no question the Kuro is a superior panel, its just a question of if you are willing to spend that much on a tv. Some people are, some people are not.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm in my 20's and I feel the same way. I think the Kuro's have a beautiful picture. I prefer the plasma look. However, if I couldn't justify the 700 more than my pz80 for a 5020, there's no way I could justify 5000 more for an Elite.

There's no question the Kuro is a superior panel, its just a question of if you are willing to spend that much on a tv. Some people are, some people are not.

Different strokes for different folks.

Absolutely. I agree. I bought the Panny 58" 850U and I love that TV!

My new motto is no matter what TV you own, enjoy it to the fullest!

Peace,

BLT

Your post is correct and I admit that my comment about the professional gear was not meant as a practical suggestion to start looking for TVs where ABC, CBS and NBC goes shopping. Rather, it was my way of saying: where in the world do people find 5 or 6k for a TV set? Or, let me re-phrase it: I assume that most AVS posters can actually find funds like this. My point, which perhaps was not conveyed clearly, is that I would have really hard time justify spending additional 5K over and above the 1600 I spent on LN52A550 as a point of reference for both the price and performance. I like a good picture as much as the next guy but I personally fail to see the increment of improvement the top sets offer for the increment of price they command.

Most likely it is the age thing. Once you get as close to retirement as I am, the priorities change a lot. When I was 20 something, I could and did get into debt to get my dream car. Not today.

It's not that outrageous to spend that kind of money on a TV set just like it's not that outrageous for people to spend $40,000.00 or more on an automobile. The 50" Elite can be had for under $4k and typically even close to $3.5k which isn't bad considering I spent $3600.00 over 10 years ago an a 51" Pioneer Elite RPTV It's all a matter of what value you put into entertainment as people have different priorities what they spend their money on. Some like cars, boats, extravagant vacations, home furnishings, entertainment systems, going out to dinner etc.

Just for an example say you buy a TV for $1600.00 (52" LCD) and I pay $3700.00 (elite plasma) for mine. We both plan on keeping them for 8 years so that's $200.00 a year for you and $462.00 for me. That's a difference of only $262 a year and less than a $1.00 a day. Really not that expensive when you break it down. I know people that spend more than that for a cup of coffee every day. Let's take that coffee and make it a Latte. Now that $4.00 a day Starbucks is $1460 a year and in less than 3 years your TV is paid for by not buying any more Starbucks and your waistline is better for it. :-)

Your post is correct and I admit that my comment about the professional gear was not meant as a practical suggestion to start looking for TVs where ABC, CBS and NBC goes shopping. Rather, it was my way of saying: where in the world do people find 5 or 6k for a TV set? Or, let me re-phrase it: I assume that most AVS posters can actually find funds like this. My point, which perhaps was not conveyed clearly, is that I would have really hard time justify spending additional 5K over and above the 1600 I spent on LN52A550 as a point of reference for both the price and performance. I like a good picture as much as the next guy but I personally fail to see the increment of improvement the top sets offer for the increment of price they command.

Most likely it is the age thing. Once you get as close to retirement as I am, the priorities change a lot. When I was 20 something, I could and did get into debt to get my dream car. Not today.

I agree, a TV is definitely not something to get into debt over. If you don't have the money, you can't afford it. Buy the best TV you can afford. Also, buy the best TV that you feel is worth it to you.


That being said, I love my Pioneer 141. ;)

We all should agree the Kuro is worth any penny of its pricetag. It's just a matter of who can afford it

Thing is the 5020 is coming down to below panny pricing on sale. If you shop carefully you can have a kuro but it takes patience and a willingness to compromise on some of the elites tweakability. For the same panel and processor it's a pretty great set.

Just for an example say you buy a TV for $1600.00 (52" LCD) and I pay $3700.00 (elite plasma) for mine. We both plan on keeping them for 8 years so that's $200.00 a year for you and $462.00 for me. That's a difference of only $262 a year and less than a $1.00 a day. Really not that expensive when you break it down. I know people that spend more than that for a cup of coffee every day. Let's take that coffee and make it a Latte. Now that $4.00 a day Starbucks is $1460 a year and in less than 3 years your TV is paid for by not buying any more Starbucks and your waistline is better for it. :-)

Again, your logic and math are flawless. In fact, I am often amazed to see guys go through the torment of trying to get that super deal that would save them a couple of hundred bucks which, when amortized over the period of ownership of, say, 8 years would translate into a nickel a day if my calculation is correct.

In my personal case, although I have enough money not to dwell on it, I cannot overcome that self-imposed mental 2k barrier for a tv and 20k for a car (I am driving a 10-year old Lincoln I bought used 7 years ago so my annual depreciation is now nearly zero). But that's me and I don't mean to criticize anyone for being looser with cash. Actually, if the economy had to rely on guys like me, it would have collapsed long time ago.

With tv sets things appear different now than in the past. Back then, a TV set would be kept until it would fail beyong repair (they used to repair things in the last century). Nowdays, a set lasts in the hand of the first owner until something better comes along next year and an irresistable urge to upgrade sets in. Then, the 8-year amortization math does not apply and we are talking some serious cash even for a 100k-a-year person.

Tomorrow will be a good for me if they deliver my 1400-dollar 46A630 as promised. Have a nice day, maxdog.

It's not that outrageous to spend that kind of money on a TV set just like it's not that outrageous for people to spend $40,000.00 or more on an automobile. The 50" Elite can be had for under $4k and typically even close to $3.5k which isn't bad considering I spent $3600.00 over 10 years ago an a 51" Pioneer Elite RPTV It's all a matter of what value you put into entertainment as people have different priorities what they spend their money on. Some like cars, boats, extravagant vacations, home furnishings, entertainment systems, going out to dinner etc.

Just for an example say you buy a TV for $1600.00 (52" LCD) and I pay $3700.00 (elite plasma) for mine. We both plan on keeping them for 8 years so that's $200.00 a year for you and $462.00 for me. That's a difference of only $262 a year and less than a $1.00 a day. Really not that expensive when you break it down. I know people that spend more than that for a cup of coffee every day. Let's take that coffee and make it a Latte. Now that $4.00 a day Starbucks is $1460 a year and in less than 3 years your TV is paid for by not buying any more Starbucks and your waistline is better for it. :-)

You are talking as if the owners of new 9G pioneer elites here posting are not going to upgrade their sets in the next 8 years, which is such a funny statement... :p

A pioneer elite, if kept for 8 years, is a nice buy. The problem is that in the next 8 years tons of "newly brutally ultimate" technology will be a horrible temptation for most of us. And poor people with a 42W4000 like me will resist the temptation, but the owners of pioneer elites won't.

I agree, most people who buy these kind of displays (myself included) will move on by 3 years or less. At the rate technology is progressing keeping a TV for 8 years seems to be a bit ridiculous. Especially when some of us still feel the best of today still have quite a ways to go.

It is funny actually because back in the day before LCD's, Plasmas and DLP all you had to do was walk into the store pick a size and a brand and you were on your merry way. Now it's which has the higher contrast ratio, what bit panel the TV has, what's the brightness rating, and what ever mumbo jumbo names these companies throw on the box to get you to research another spec. Funny thing is I was at my Grandmothers house just the other day and she still has a Sony 20" TV from 1980 that still works, still shows a decent SD picture and she is happy as anything with it. I'm only buying a Flat Panel TV cause I have no room for my 30" CRT anymore and what ever i get now I'll be happy with for the next 5 years easy (unless it breaks down or something).

As far as the shootout glad too see the Panny 800U high up on the list since that is one of the TV's I'm interested in along with the Samsung A650, just haven't decided if i'm going Plasma or LCD yet.

I feel with TV's and HD content it's all mental anyhow, and I've proved it many times at my job. I work as a tech for a certain HD content provider. Many times when on a call in a customer home I get complaints like "this HD looks horrible, i see lines or i see clouds or blur or the TV doesn't look like it did in the store. My box is bad or your HD content is bad. I'm using HDMI cable and it doesn't look great etc etc etc" So i'll turn the TV off go behind the TV and start talking to them for a little bit while messing around with the box. Few minutes later reboot the system and turn the TV back on and let them view what they want and ask them "how does it look to you now??" do you know what 90% of them say? "WOW what did you do?? it's looks great!" I feed them a story I recalibrated the signal or the box and they couldn't be happier, in reality I did nothing! they just imagined it and want the reassurance of a professional they are getting the best image possible. Of course if there really is a TV or HD content problem then it has to be fixed but most the time people get caught up in what others tell them or they read on a forum and feel the issue is happening to them when in reality most of the time it's all in your mind.

Again, your logic and math are flawless. In fact, I am often amazed to see guys go through the torment of trying to get that super deal that would save them a couple of hundred bucks which, when amortized over the period of ownership of, say, 8 years would translate into a nickel a day if my calculation is correct.

In my personal case, although I have enough money not to dwell on it, I cannot overcome that self-imposed mental 2k barrier for a tv and 20k for a car (I am driving a 10-year old Lincoln I bought used 7 years ago so my annual depreciation is now nearly zero). But that's me and I don't mean to criticize anyone for being looser with cash. Actually, if the economy had to rely on guys like me, it would have collapsed long time ago.

With tv sets things appear different now than in the past. Back then, a TV set would be kept until it would fail beyong repair (they used to repair things in the last century). Nowdays, a set lasts in the hand of the first owner until something better comes along next year and an irresistable urge to upgrade sets in. Then, the 8-year amortization math does not apply and we are talking some serious cash even for a 100k-a-year person.

Tomorrow will be a good for me if they deliver my 1400-dollar 46A630 as promised. Have a nice day, maxdog.

There will always be those that try and keep up with the newest and greatest gadget, but those I would guess are in the minority. I would venture that the majority of TV owners easily keep their sets beyond 5 years though which would still make the cost of ownership about a $1.00 a day difference compared to your Samsung. Heck, I'm going on my 3rd year now for my plasma and kept my Pioneer Elite RPTV for 10 years. Some can justify it while others can't but that's what's so great about this market as there are choices available to everyone.

As for going through the torment of getting the best deal possible, I actually enjoy that aspect and it brought this :D to my face when I walked out of Best Buy with a Samsung LN40A550 for less than $890.00 and 36 months no interest. I love using other peoples money and $24.00 a month is a piece of cake payment. That's less than a$1.00 a day. ;)

Hell, I update my TV's once a year!!!!

Hell, I update my TV's once a year!!!!

Twice for me.

And I thought that my every 1.5 years upgrade was bad. :confused:

There will always be those that try and keep up with the newest and greatest gadget, but those I would guess are in the minority. I would venture that the majority of TV owners easily keep their sets beyond 5 years though which would still make the cost of ownership about a $1.00 a day difference compared to your Samsung. Heck, I'm going on my 3rd year now for my plasma and kept my Pioneer Elite RPTV for 10 years. Some can justify it while others can't but that's what's so great about this market as there are choices available to everyone.

As for going through the torment of getting the best deal possible, I actually enjoy that aspect and it brought this :D to my face when I walked out of Best Buy with a Samsung LN40A550 for less than $890.00 and 36 months no interest. I love using other peoples money and $24.00 a month is a piece of cake payment. That's less than a$1.00 a day. ;)

i did the same thing with my px-80. It's my first foray into the world of high def, 18 months no interest and just over a grand when i picked it up. looks great, and i pay just over $50/month for it. not quite your under $1/day, but good enough for me. I was paying more for my sofa per month while i payed it off.

I see myself as a 10+ year kind of guy. I'll get more and better TVs and keep them for a while, just moving the lesser ones into different rooms. My only regret is going 50" right off the bat when i know that it'll probably be relegated to bedroom viewing or something similar in 2-3 years. It looks great in my living room right now though