I have my center sitting below my screen on the floor. The midrange is about 1.5' off the floor and the tweeter is 2' from the floor. It has adjustable spikes and is leaning back so the speaker is facing up at the listening position. They don't make a stand for it and say it's meant to run on the floor. The guys on Audyssey thread say BS... any speaker will benefit from being raised off the floor. I have about 8" clearence from the screen that I put in to insure I didn't get any light reflections. I mainly care about picture quality with Bluray movies which have black bars, so I could use the whole 8" even if it compromised my 16:9 picture quality a bit.

How much to I stand to gain from making / buying a custom stand? I set my speakers to small, but crossover the center at 40hz.

How much to I stand to gain from making / buying a custom stand?

About a 1% gain.

............any speaker will benefit from being raised off the floor.Which is correct.

I assume you meant your midrange and tweeter at 1.5" and 2" off the ground, respectively, correct? Not 1.5' and 2', right?


How much to I stand to gain from making / buying a custom stand?A bunch. I don't even understand why you have to ask. The further from the floor you can get it, the better.



About a 1% gain.:confused: WTH?

Altho I wont give you a hard number like gooki :rolleyes: I will give you a hint on how you can see what benefits you're missing (more than 1% I bet) by raising your CC.

Really, its simple....get a box, a hamper, phonebooks, etc. to raise it to the height you want, set the level and listen. Go from there.

And just an observation but isnt a 40hz x-over for your CC a bit low? Unless you've started at 80hz already and worked your way down.......

P.S. Oh yea, just wanted to ask what manufacturer recommends their CC to be mounted on the floor? (angled up I assume)

The main advantage is to get the sound from your center channel coming from about the same height as your mains. This means getting the tweeters at around the same height.

If they are way off, you may notice an unrealistic shift when a sound is panned smoothly from one main speaker through the center channel to the other main. On the other hand, you may not. Research shows that under the right circumstances, visual cues (something on the screen which is apparently emitting the sound) can override auditory cues for localization. Unfortunately, we don't yet know exactly what those circumstances are.

Regards,
Terry

Research shows that under the right circumstances, visual cues (something on the screen which is apparently emitting the sound) can override auditory cues for localization.I've read the same, but also that it can be more fatiguing for the brain to do that over a long period of time. The closer you can get the actual sound source to the apparent sound source, the less has to be compensated for and the easier it is to process.

Sanjay

The main advantage is to get the sound from your center channel coming from about the same height as your mains. This means getting the tweeters at around the same height...

...and if you have the room and are able to do this then you would be even better off using the same speaker as the mains.;) Many people buy and use a center speaker when they could get superior sound using 3 (or better yet 5) matching speakers.

I like my screen centered vertically with my eyes and choose not to use an acoustic transparent screen because of the video trade offs. A 3rd main would have been cheaper, but my video preferences preclude the option and force me to use a dedicated center.

I got one of the big B&W centers (htm1d) and their website says it was specifically designed to run on the floor (spikes on carpet). I haven't experimented much because it's heavy. But since it's big, I was hoping the mid & tweeters were high enough off the floor without a stand to avoid negative interaction with the floor. Measurements for floor to center of the driver is ~ 6" for woofers, 19" for midrange, 24" for tweeter.

If you have multiple rows of seating, your center channel cannot be on the floor...you need unobstructed line of sight from all seats to all the speakers.

...I got one of the big B&W centers (htm1d) and their website says it was specifically designed to run on the floor (spikes on carpet). I haven't experimented much because it's heavy...

You have an HDM1D.:eek: At 200lbs how would you elevate it?;) Seriously the HDM1D is designed to be placed under screen on he floor. You just elevate the front to angle the Nautilus head so it is facing your ear level. What are your main's (800,801 or 802's) and rears?

I have 803D's and an HDM2D myself. Would love to sell my rears (804's) and move my 803D's to the rear and get a pair of 802D 's and an HDM1D. My screen is a perfect 23.75" above my floor for the HDM1D. It's just my cheek book that's not.:D

Here's a reference from the B&W site:

The HTM1D is specifically intended to be mounted on the floor, its low profile allowing a large projection screen to come within 600mm (2 ft) of the floor. Supplied with the system are four heavy-duty height-adjustable feet. This design allows up to 40mm (1.6 in) of vertical adjustment so that the speaker may be tilted back to face more towards the listeners. They have a case hardened spike at one end for carpeted floors, and a non-marking rubber pad on the other for more vulnerable surfaces.

I think they know what their design parameters were!

I got one of the big B&W centers (htm1d) and their website says it was specifically designed to run on the floor (spikes on carpet). I haven't experimented much because it's heavy. But since it's big, I was hoping the mid & tweeters were high enough off the floor without a stand to avoid negative interaction with the floor. Measurements for floor to center of the driver is ~ 6" for woofers, 19" for midrange, 24" for tweeter.This is important information! :D

It always nice to know all the details when asked for advice.

Mounted low looks it might be ok considering how low the mains are.....but then the seating position must be very low as well or else nothing really works together.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=13371&stc=1

Mounted low looks it might be ok considering how low the mains are.....but then the seating position must be very low as well or else nothing really works together.Wow, for something like that my seating position would be on the floor.

Sanjay

It always nice to know all the details when asked for advice.

Mounted low looks it might be ok considering how low the mains are.....but then the seating position must be very low as well or else nothing really works together....

Is that your setup? 2 Things:

1)How does that glass shelf support that over 200lb monster?
2)Why are saying "...the seating position must be very low..." when the tweeters on the mains are a full 4' above the floor and the center is probably a good 3'. Seated in a HT recliner your ears will be level or slightly below the mains and slightly above the center. Do you won't to be WAY below them?
Wow, for something like that my seating position would be on the floor.

Sanjay
You must not realize the scale of what you are looking at.

Is that your setup?Sucks, huh?


1)How does that glass shelf support that over 200lb monster?That is some very thick glass and all the weight is not on the center of the shelf, but distributed towards the corners of the shelf near its supports.


You must not realize the scale of what you are looking at.I think he does. I think he is joking about something. Just not sure what.

Wow. That center is a beast (they are beautiful speakers, and I'm sure they sound out of this world in a good room).

On a side note, how do you keep from being distracted by those huge VU meters on your gorgeous McIntosh amps? I think those things would put me in a trance with the room lights dimmed low.

Sucks, huh?...
Man I have the upgrade fever. :eek: I need to take an (bottle of) aspirin before I end up at my dealer and getting a couple of 802D's and an HDM1D. I keep telling myself that my 803D's would make fantastic rears because of the extra tweeter hight and my "puny" HTM2D just doesn't cut it and needs upgrading to the HTM1D.:eek:

You must not realize the scale of what you are looking at.There are standard width audio components in that pic for scale, but OK I'll bite: how high off the floor is the midrange/tweeter of the centre speaker?

Sanjay

Wow, for something like that my seating position would be on the floor.

Sanjay

You must not realize the scale of what you are looking at.

There are standard width audio components in that pic for scale, but OK I'll bite: how high off the floor is the midrange/tweeter of the centre speaker?
Sanjay

Too low, imho. The reason I didn't get the HTM1D to accompany my 802Ds is the lack of a stand to raise the mid/hf to match the height of those in the 802Ds.

yosh70

mcintosh...b&w...meridian

my god...that's lovely

Too low, imho. The reason I didn't get the HTM1D to accompany my 802Ds is the lack of a stand to raise the mid/hf to match the height of those in the 802Ds.
Kal,

Didn't know you were a B&W guy.

If you have room to raise it to the same hight as your 802Ds then why not get 3 802Ds for a perfect timbre match? That's what I would do but my screen prevents this. What are you using for a center (HTM2D?) and how is it mounted? I know that music is your forte (so 3 802D would make perfect sense) but don't you have a projection system?

There are standard width audio components in that pic for scale, but OK I'll bite: how high off the floor is the midrange/tweeter of the centre speaker?

Sanjay
It looks like about 3' or a little more and the Marlin head angles upward.

Kal,

Didn't know you were a B&W guy.

If you have room to raise it to the same hight as your 802Ds then why not get 3 802Ds for a perfect timbre match? That's what I did.

I know that music is your forte (so 3 802D would make perfect sense) but don't you have a projection system?Nope.

yosh70

mcintosh...b&w...meridian

my god...that's lovely

Oops.....:o Sorry guys, I couldnt even afford one of those amps probably.

Google image brought up that pic of the CC in a setup that I thought would pertain to this thread.

This is my modest mid-fi setup as of right now....

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n181/Yosh70/Straighton.jpg

.............how high off the floor is the midrange/tweeter of the centre speaker?Well, the OP said his tweeter was 2' off the floor. And his speaker IS on the floor. So, in that pic the tweeter is probably 3' or so off the floor.

Too low, imho.MHO too. I'd rather the centre speaker in that pic be raised around 8-12 inches, which would be a good height for me seated on my couch.

Sanjay

That's what I did...

Kal,

What are your rears, 802's also? It is just a music only system? How do you listen to 2 channel (unaltered or 5.1 DSP)?

Kal,

What are your rears, 802's also? It is just a music only system? How do you listen to 2 channel (unaltered or 5.1 DSP)?I'm almost certain he wouldn't apply a DSP.

MHO too. I'd rather the center speaker in that pic be raised around 8-12 inches, which would be a good height for me seated on my couch.

Sanjay

At that point a 3rd main would make more sense. I think most people buy centers because they don't have the space to run the speaker at equal height.

My screen is the same size and position as Kal's window. I know a 3rd 802d would have sounded better than what I have, but it sure would have been distracting when the movie started.

At that point a 3rd main would make more sense. I think most people buy centers because they don't have the space to run the speaker at equal height.

My screen is the same size and position as Kal's window. I know a 3rd 802d would have sounded better than what I have, but it sure would have been distracting when the movie started.

Exactly, and my screen is 24" above the floor and can't be raised so how would I fit a 802D there (or a raised HTM1D)? That is why B&W makes the HDM1D (HTM2D in my case at least for now :eek:) ).
http://photos.imageevent.com/williamjulien/hometheater/huge/_A062802.JPG

At that point a 3rd main would make more sense. I think most people buy centers because they don't have the space to run the speaker at equal height.I ended up with 3 identical centre speakers, all at the same height (tweeters about 43-44 inches off the floor). Since I use my system primarily for music (movies are a distant second priority), I tend to think of my front soundstage more in terms of three speaker rather than two speakers plus a centre. YMMV.

Sanjay

I ended up with 3 identical centre speakers, all at the same height (tweeters about 43-44 inches off the floor). Since I use my system primarily for music (movies are a distant second priority), I tend to think of my front soundstage more in terms of three speaker rather than two speakers plus a centre. YMMV.

SanjayBefore anyone plotzes, it should be pointed out that Sanjay uses KEF center channel speakers which feature a coincidentally arrayed driver. So, his speakers do not suffer from any of the usual issues associated with horizontal center channel speakers.

Kal,

What are your rears, 802's also? 804S

It is just a music only system? Yes.

How do you listen to 2 channel (unaltered or 5.1 DSP)?Unaltered mostly.

At that point a 3rd main would make more sense. I think most people buy centers because they don't have the space to run the speaker at equal height.

My screen is the same size and position as Kal's window. I know a 3rd 802d would have sounded better than what I have, but it sure would have been distracting when the movie started.I should point out that the drapes are heavy cotton velvet lined heavily with dacron batting. In addition, when they are closed, there are 3" OC 705 panels between them and the glass.

Before anyone plotzes, it should be pointed out that Sanjay uses KEF center channel speakers which feature a coincidentally arrayed driver. So, his speakers do not suffer from any of the usual issues associated with horizontal center channel speakers.^^^What he said. I also neglected to mention that my centre speaker is always in use, for all sources.

Sanjay

I also neglected to mention that my centre speaker is always in use, for all sources.:rolleyes: ;)

I ended up with 3 identical centre speakers, all at the same height (tweeters about 43-44 inches off the floor). Since I use my system primarily for music (movies are a distant second priority), I tend to think of my front soundstage more in terms of three speaker rather than two speakers plus a centre. YMMV.

Sanjay

I understand. I know the advice is both good and well intentioned, but I chose to compromise multichannel playback for the sake of video. I'm just wondering if it's worthwhile to raise my center 8" off the floor. It won't be even with the mains because I used that space for the screen.

So in general, for those of that prioritize video, is it advisable to get the center channel tweeters as close to the mains as possible? Or has the "damage" already been done in the choice of screen placement and the need to go with a dedicated center?

I understand. I know the advice is both good and well intentioned, but I chose to compromise multichannel playback for the sake of video. I'm just wondering if it's worthwhile to raise my center 8" off the floor. It won't be even with the mains because I used that space for the screen.

So in general, for those of that prioritize video, is it advisable to get the center channel tweeters as close to the mains as possible? Or has the "damage" already been done in the choice of screen placement and the need to go with a dedicated center?

If you can rase it 8" it will help imaging. The closer the mid/tweeter to ear level the better. However you may reduce bass response some since the HDM1 is tuned to sit on the floor. Remember unlike 98% of dedicated centers it is a "full size/range" center speaker. It may actually be the only true 100% "full size/range" dedicated center. So either way will be a compromise.

Me I would go with a larger screen and keep it on the floor.:D

On a side note I talked with my dealer today about moving up to a 802D/HDM1D combo and moving my 803Ds to the rear. Of course talk is cheep so we will see what happens.

I know the advice is both good and well intentioned, but I chose to compromise multichannel playback for the sake of video.Understood. I wasn't giving advice as much as mentioning the solution that worked for me. I only brought up my priorities to put things in context. I'm just wondering if it's worthwhile to raise my center 8" off the floor.Tricky to answer, since it was designed specifically to be placed on the floor. But, despite what the manufacturer recommends, it wouldn't hurt to experiment. I'd certainly try to get it as close to the height of the mains as possible, just to find out whether there is any audible improvement. If there isn't, then keep things the way they are. So in general, for those of that prioritize video, is it advisable to get the center channel tweeters as close to the mains as possible?Only if it doesn't end up compromising the video. Isn't it recommended that your eyes should be at the same height as a line across the bottom third of the screen? Or is it the midpoint? I've heard it both ways. (BTW, my 61-inch TV sits on the floor, with its top bezel at eye height. Don't even say it.)

Once the height of your display is set, then get the centre speaker as close to the mains as possible (assuming you're not sacrificing sound quality by raising it off the floor). In doing all this, don't make "perfect" the enemy of "good". Rather than worrying about what would have been the ideal set-up, take the gear you already have and optimize it as best you can.

Sanjay

Well, I went and worked a deal on getting 2 802Ds and an HDM1D and moving my 803Ds to the rear. Just got word hat the 802Ds shipped and the HDM1D is on backorder.:( Wonder how long it will be before I have my center on the floor?:eek:

Once the height of your display is set, then get the centre speaker as close to the mains as possible (assuming you're not sacrificing sound quality by raising it off the floor). In doing all this, don't make "perfect" the enemy of "good". Rather than worrying about what would have been the ideal set-up, take the gear you already have and optimize it as best you can.

Sanjay

He could also try 'toe up' of the center sitting near the floor -- angling the speaker upwards so the tweeter fires more directly at the listener(s)

He could also try 'toe up' of the center sitting near the floor -- angling the speaker upwards so the tweeter fires more directly at the listener(s)Toeing the speaker up will put the listener on-axis to the drivers, which is good. I'd still worry about it sounding low compared to the mains. Probably more of a problem with music than movies, since the on-screen image does a good job of distraction. It would especially be a problem for someone like me, who uses the centre speaker when listening to music. So while toe up will help, I'd still try to get the centre as close as possible to the height of the mains. Like I said before: doesn't have to be perfect, just whatever you can do.

Sanjay

Yesterday I was thinking of ordering a custom stand (copy of the HTM2D) for my HTM1D but since it will cost some and after reading this thread I will experiment first.

One of my worries was how I will create the same conditions as those beneath the HTM1D when on the floor (hard flat surface) so I am thinking of adding a granite platform on top of the stand as well. Yet, the stand needs to be solid so filling it with sand might be required too.

At the moment I am having it tilted upwards and it does not sound bad at all but sometimes I feel like I would like it to be a bit higher.

That's what I did.

Nope.

What kind of acoustic treatment are the frogs on your L/R?

How about turning L/R upside down to lower the tweeter more to the Centers tweeter?
Would that have any negative effect?

You must be joking of course....