Which one do you guys think is better?

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what TV I want to buy :confused:

Since the 61 in Samsung LED DLP was on backorder on Crutchfield, I decided to purchase it because I knew I would have time to decide or not (It still hasn't shipped)

I had wanted to get a Sony XBR6 but all of the deals during the christmas season are gone and I didn't have the money at the time to get it.

Now I see the Kuro might be on sale at BB soon.

I decided to go to BB to look at all the TV's. I was kind of dissapointed in the Samsung DLP's picture quality but I heard not to trust the in store display. Of course I was wow'd again by the XBR6's PQ and checked out the Kuro but was a tad dissapointed. It looked dark and bland compared to the Sony. I also like that 3-d effect that the XBR6 gives.

Could it just be that the Kuro wasn't calibrated properly for the store? I have heard amazing reviews on it so I expected to be amazed. Also the set didn't say Kuro it just said PDP-5020FD, Is this right? Also the set was hanging high on the wall so I don't know if that would've made a difference.

Just cut to the chase and buy the Kuro.

Just cut to the chase and buy the Kuro.

End of discussion. Completely agree.

End of discussion. Completely agree.

Yea, Mods you can just go ahead and close this puppy out.

Are you guys serious? It is that much better?

Can someone answer my other questions?

Also would it be inadvisable to use this as an HTPC as well. Is burn-in still a problem? I saw there was a 150 hour break-in period.

Are you guys serious?

very.

is that much better?

yup.



Is burn-in still a problem? I saw there was a 150 hour break-in period.

Search the threads and research. Burn-in is not a problem and 150 break-in period is recommended, but I never did it.

I decided to go to BB to look at all the TV's. I was kind of dissapointed in the Samsung DLP's picture quality but I heard not to trust the in store display. Of course I was wow'd again by the XBR6's PQ and checked out the Kuro but was a tad dissapointed. It looked dark and bland compared to the Sony. I also like that 3-d effect that the XBR6 gives.

You probably won't get that 3-d effect from the Kuro if I think I know what you are observing.

You probably won't get that 3-d effect from the Kuro if I think I know what you are observing.

And thank the lord for that!

Which one do you guys think is better?

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what TV I want to buy :confused:



I decided to go to BB to look at all the TV's. I was kind of dissapointed in the Samsung DLP's picture quality but I heard not to trust the in store display. Of course I was wow'd again by the XBR6's PQ and checked out the Kuro but was a tad dissapointed. It looked dark and bland compared to the Sony. I also like that 3-d effect that the XBR6 gives.



You were disappointed with the Kuro in the store? I can assure you, wait till you get that TV home. Never trust a picture in the store. Way to many people screwing with the settings. That 3D effect you are referring to is ME (motion enhancement). Trust me, I had a Sony TV and even my kids made me turn that feature off. It is ridiculous and unrealistic. Comparing those 2 TVs is a joke.

And thank the lord for that!

You or I might not care for the 3-d effect but obviously the original poster likes that look.

You or I might not care for the 3-d effect but obviously the original poster likes that look.

He'll find it annoying in no time. It's a gimmick and a bad one at that.

He'll find it annoying in no time. It's a gimmick and a bad one at that.

Some people like that effect. You know different strokes for different folks. This proves we all have our different preferences.

Are you guys serious? It is that much better?

Can someone answer my other questions?

Also would it be inadvisable to use this as an HTPC as well. Is burn-in still a problem? I saw there was a 150 hour break-in period.

I use my 5020fd with a HTPC setup with no problem. I ran movies with the black bars and stuff, no break-in, many times already. I still haven't seen my first image retention, much less burn-in.

With that said. I actually like the 3D effect you seen on the XBR6 on games (Samsung has something similar called AMP). I see its value in playing games, which in my opinion, is unnatural to begin with, so it enhance it in that respect. I still think the Kuro is better out of the two TV, however.

Another vote for the kuro here- but I would go one step further and enter the panasonic pz800u into the mix.

Sure the kuro is the best, but the panasonic will beat the pants off the xbr6 (IMO of course) and in addition it'll likely cost considerably less.

Like most others have said, no contest, really.

Plus, starting this Sunday, there will be a very tempting price for the kuro at BB.
I'm staring at and starting to loath this old 30" 130lb. crt that's laughing in my face.:mad::D

Which one do you guys think is better?

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what TV I want to buy :confused:

Since the 61 in Samsung LED DLP was on backorder on Crutchfield, I decided to purchase it because I knew I would have time to decide or not (It still hasn't shipped)

I had wanted to get a Sony XBR6 but all of the deals during the christmas season are gone and I didn't have the money at the time to get it.

Now I see the Kuro might be on sale at BB soon.

I decided to go to BB to look at all the TV's. I was kind of dissapointed in the Samsung DLP's picture quality but I heard not to trust the in store display. Of course I was wow'd again by the XBR6's PQ and checked out the Kuro but was a tad dissapointed. It looked dark and bland compared to the Sony. I also like that 3-d effect that the XBR6 gives.

Could it just be that the Kuro wasn't calibrated properly for the store? I have heard amazing reviews on it so I expected to be amazed. Also the set didn't say Kuro it just said PDP-5020FD, Is this right? Also the set was hanging high on the wall so I don't know if that would've made a difference.


Forget DLP there are too many moving parts to fail.

Kuro is plasma they burn in (hence the "break in" period, that is basically controlled burn-in as the screen loses much of it's brightness in the beginning) and they band and dither. Plasma is dim compared to LCD and seems to struggle to get bright whites, so if you want a brighter screen that you don't get burn in from the Sony is good.

Huh?

Who told you they are brighter during the first 150hrs? I have taken readings at both unboxing, and at 150 hours. There was no difference in peak light output. The biggest changes occured with grayscale tracking, and chromaticity shifts.

Banding?

Dithering happens, yes, but you'd have to sit relatively close to see it.

I won't even touch the whites comment.

If plasmas burn in, then LCDs have poor black levels, severe motion blur, inaccurate color, sever screen uniformity, and the list goes on. <---- I am being completely sarcastic with this statement, and basing it on where LCD was 2 years ago, much like the poster did above me regarding plasma.

Trojita, both plasma and LCD technologies have their boosters/fanatics. They mean well, but what they say/think may not necessarily be what's best for you.

I've been impressed by both sets. Best thing to do probably is to view both sets a LOT, with a variety of whatever source material you're going to use the most (sports, Blu-ray action movies, games- whatever it is that you do), and then make up your own mind as to which you like better.

They're both excellent sets, and I doubt you're going to be disappointed either way.

Op the kuro is much better no question end of discussion and closed thread. :D



i agree
QUOTE=cubbiechris;15572953]very.

yup.

Search the threads and research. Burn-in is not a problem and 150 break-in period is recommended, but I never did it.[/QUOTE]


once again agree
You were disappointed with the Kuro in the store? I can assure you, wait till you get that TV home. Never trust a picture in the store. Way to many people screwing with the settings. That 3D effect you are referring to is ME (motion enhancement). Trust me, I had a Sony TV and even my kids made me turn that feature off. It is ridiculous and unrealistic. Comparing those 2 TVs is a joke.

This is very missleading information

Forget DLP there are too many moving parts to fail.

Kuro is plasma they burn in (hence the "break in" period, that is basically controlled burn-in as the screen loses much of it's brightness in the beginning) and they band and dither. Plasma is dim compared to LCD and seems to struggle to get bright whites, so if you want a brighter screen that you don't get burn in from the Sony is good.

agree

Huh?

Who told you they are brighter during the first 150hrs? I have taken readings at both unboxing, and at 150 hours. There was no difference in peak light output. The biggest changes occured with grayscale tracking, and chromaticity shifts.

Banding?

Dithering happens, yes, but you'd have to sit relatively close to see it.

I won't even touch the whites comment.

If plasmas burn in, then LCDs have poor black levels, severe motion blur, inaccurate color, sever screen uniformity, and the list goes on. <---- I am being completely sarcastic with this statement, and basing it on where LCD was 2 years ago, much like the poster did above me regarding plasma.

Trojita, both plasma and LCD technologies have their boosters/fanatics. They mean well, but what they say/think may not necessarily be what's best for you.

I've been impressed by both sets. Best thing to do probably is to view both sets a LOT, with a variety of whatever source material you're going to use the most (sports, Blu-ray action movies, games- whatever it is that you do), and then make up your own mind as to which you like better.

They're both excellent sets, and I doubt you're going to be disappointed either way.

I agree.

Also, there a few reasons why I would not recommend the 5020 over the XBR6.

then LCDs have poor black levels

Not the Samsung 950 and XBR8. I read one report where the XBR8 have deeper blacks than the Kuro.

Not the Samsung 950 and XBR8. I read one report where the XBR8 have deeper blacks than the Kuro.

Again, the XBR8 only goes blacker than a Kuro on all black screen.

During mixed contrast content (otherwise called watching television), the XBR8 does not equal or beat kuro blacks.
Blooming will not allow it.

The only thing the XBR6, or any LCD for that matter, has over a Kuro is being able to display a brighter image.

But this is not to say the Kuro is not plenty bright for a properly calibrated picture.

If blinding brightness and motion gimmicks are someones cup of tea, then a kuro is not for them.

The Kuro is for the viewer who wants the picture to look natural and as close to real life as possible.
And in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black.

Again, the XBR8 only goes blacker than a Kuro on all black screen.

During mixed contrast content (otherwise called watching television), the XBR8 does not equal or beat kuro blacks.
Blooming will not allow it.

The only thing the XBR6, or any LCD for that matter, has over a Kuro is being able to display a brighter image.

But this is not to say the Kuro is not plenty bright for a properly calibrated picture.

If blinding brightness and motion gimmicks are someones cup of tea, then a kuro is not for them.

The Kuro is for the viewer who wants the picture to look natural and as close to real life as possible.
And in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black.

No grass is not neon green, snow is not blu-ish white, that sounds horrible. A person might be in need of emergency calibration if their set is looking like that.

I saw there was a 150 hour break-in period.

get the 141, it already has 100 hours of break in from the factory.

in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black.

that should be your signature.

Write it like this

"in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black." - Kuro

Again, the XBR8 only goes blacker than a Kuro on all black screen.

During mixed contrast content (otherwise called watching television), the XBR8 does not equal or beat kuro blacks.
Blooming will not allow it.

And in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black.

Blooming on an LCD? It must be defective, or you have dodgy source material or equipment. It is plasma that has pixel blooming hence the soft image.

If set right you should have no more blooming then on an LCD computer monitor, which is like none.

As far as the weird colors you have to shut off all of the image processing gimmics like "vivid" and "enhanced contrast" etc and calibrate correctly.

And in real life you don't have moving dither noise (unless there is an awful lot of gnats around you) and banding in shadow areas, nor does a sunny day look like you are wearing 10 layers of sunglasses.

Blooming on an LCD? It must be defective, or you have dodgy source material or equipment. It is plasma that has pixel blooming hence the soft image.

If set right you should have no more blooming then on an LCD computer monitor, which is like none.

As far as the weird colors you have to shut off all of the image processing gimmics like "vivid" and "enhanced contrast" etc and calibrate correctly.

And in real life you don't have moving dither noise (unless there is an awful lot of gnats around you) and banding in shadow areas, nor does a sunny day look like you are wearing 10 layers of sunglasses.

LCD owner... :)

Have you seen a Pioneer elite Kuro in pure mode?

The blooming the poster above is talking about is from the local dimming on the LED's Sony XBR 8 LCD in dark scenes with small amounts of bright objects in the scene.

XBR6? With all the problems those TVs have I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole. Before you waste your hard earned money on that trash read this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099702

Even without mentioning those problems the XBR7 and under are mediocre performers at best, the only LCDs I'd compare to the 5020/6020 are the XBR8 and Samsung 9 series. With those choices I'd still get the Pioneer but it's still more of a fair fight.

get the 141, it already has 100 hours of break in from the factory.

For what they charge for the 141 they better get the pope to give it a kiss before you buy it. Seriously.. from xbr6/5020 to 141 and the price has doubled. I honestly don't see the point of a signature panel for the average joe, elite yes but the signatures aren't worth their premium. More of a bragging rights piece (ahem) ;)

Again, the XBR8 only goes blacker than a Kuro on all black screen.

During mixed contrast content (otherwise called watching television), the XBR8 does not equal or beat kuro blacks.
Blooming will not allow it.

The only thing the XBR6, or any LCD for that matter, has over a Kuro is being able to display a brighter image.

But this is not to say the Kuro is not plenty bright for a properly calibrated picture.

If blinding brightness and motion gimmicks are someones cup of tea, then a kuro is not for them.

The Kuro is for the viewer who wants the picture to look natural and as close to real life as possible.
And in real life, grass is not neon green, snow is not cool (blu-ish) white, and black is not greyish black.

Exactly. Man, I love your posts!

Another vote for the kuro here- but I would go one step further and enter the panasonic pz800u into the mix.

Sure the kuro is the best, but the panasonic will beat the pants off the xbr6 (IMO of course) and in addition it'll likely cost considerably less.

I agree. Since I wasn't sure about Plasma technology, I decided not to spend the money on the Kuro this year and try the Panny 850U. I love this TV. I'd take it over any TV except the Kuro. Next year, I will probably get the 60 Kuro.

For what they charge for the 141 they better get the pope to give it a kiss before you buy it. Seriously.. from xbr6/5020 to 141 and the price has doubled. I honestly don't see the point of a signature panel for the average joe, elite yes but the signatures aren't worth their premium. More of a bragging rights piece (ahem) ;)

I thought the signatures were going for roughly the same as the elites now days?
I might be wrong. I am not very familiar with the signature pricing.
No ATSC tuner, speakers, stand, USB port, etc. just never would have worked in my situation. But man, some of the signature features are nice!

I went through exactly the same thing two weeks ago. Kuro is way better than XBR6, no contest in home environment.

In-store bright light condition, the Kuro definitely looks dull and wash-out.

I went through exactly the same thing two weeks ago. Kuro is way better than XBR6, no contest in home environment.

In-store bright light condition, the Kuro definitely looks dull and wash-out.

Cool thanks for letting me know it just wasn't me :)

Well my DLP actually shipped from Crutchfield.

Now I'm kinda at a loss at what to do :confused:

Do I just pay for the DLP and be happy with it?

I am wondering if I should pay the extra 700-800 bucks for the 50 in Kuro or wait for an LCD I like to go on sale. I'm still a college student so I'm not raking in the money and my parents keep saying save your money. If I had the money and could get that free blu-ray player with the Kuro and price match the TV for the sale price that would be a sweet deal.

God I don't know what to do :(

If you are still in college, then I would listen to your parents. The DLP will serve you well, as I am sure you will have opportunities in the future to get the toys that you want.

BTW, I think BB is having a sale on the 5020+free BDP-51.

I agree. Since I wasn't sure about Plasma technology, I decided not to spend the money on the Kuro this year and try the Panny 850U. I love this TV. I'd take it over any TV except the Kuro. Next year, I will probably get the 60 Kuro.Pioneer wont be makin plasma next year, they r goin lcd. Panasonic will be making there plasma panel for them. So if u want a kuro this will be the last year.

110% ^^ untrue.

-Robert

Pioneer wont be makin plasma next year, they r goin lcd. Panasonic will be making there plasma panel for them. So if u want a kuro this will be the last year.

Can I get what you're smoking?

Pioneer isn't "goin" lcd any more than they're abandoning plasma. There will be kuros next year and there will be pioneer lcds as well. Their arrangement with panasonic is to cut cost- their arrangement with sharp is to re-enter the sub 50" segment they abandoned this year to the competition.

No secret, lcds dominate the smaller screen sizes (46 and under). Think of a pioneer lcd like you would a porsche suv- an abomination the purists will still accept to keep their beloved company alive. ;)

It's funny what people post when they think no one is looking. :)

It's funny what people post when they think no one is looking. :)

LOL. Dude, that is priceless.

Pioneer wont be makin plasma next year, they r goin lcd. Panasonic will be making there plasma panel for them. So if u want a kuro this will be the last year.

Jeez dude, do a little research before you post next time. It is because of people like you that plasma myths are still perpetuated to this day. Because you go off spouting random crap out of your mouth that isn't true.

Now, if you would have actually DONE YOUR HOMEWORK, you would see that Pioneer is simply ceasing to make their own PANELS (aka GLASS). It is a cost cutting move, as Panasonic has the largest, most efficient panel factory in the world. Pioneer is NOT going to exit the plasma market. That is ridiculous. That is like saying Ferrari is going to stop making cars, because they are buying their glass from Ford.

I just sold my beloved XBR today. :(

Getting a Kuro within a week. :)

I stopped kidding myself and I'm glad I did.

Good luck sir,

James

If you are still in college, then I would listen to your parents. The DLP will serve you well, as I am sure you will have opportunities in the future to get the toys that you want.

BTW, I think BB is having a sale on the 5020+free BDP-51.

Yeah the thing is that my parents didn't even want me buying a TV in the first place and that after they were semi ok with it after I bought it my mom was like "what it isn't a flat panel?"

Also the Free blu-ray player with purchase was available till Saturday. Then on Sunday the Kuro goes on sale. Some people I think were going to try and get the blu-ray player and then price match the set later.

I guess I might just stick it out with the DLP. I'm just thinking that how long will I be using this TV? Will I want to buy a new TV even sooner? That is why I don't know if the Kuro might be justified that way because it will "last me longer".

Plus Best Buy has a no interest for 18 months card. I'll pay off most of the set right away anyways but I'll be done with college before the 18 months is up :D

I guess there always is the option to not accept the shipment and get a refund for the DLP :D

I thought the signatures were going for roughly the same as the elites now days?
I might be wrong. I am not very familiar with the signature pricing.
No ATSC tuner, speakers, stand, USB port, etc. just never would have worked in my situation. But man, some of the signature features are nice!

They are slightly more expensive and some of the extra features are pretty gimmicky. All those things you listed as being lost are exactly why I find them pointless for the average consumer the elites are a much better bargain.

Pioneer wont be makin plasma next year, they r goin lcd. Panasonic will be making there plasma panel for them. So if u want a kuro this will be the last year.

AHH
such bull-pa-tootie!

I had the same dilema a few weeks back and mind you I was a Sony fan for years. Originally I had purchased a 52XBR6 and after reading online I immediately went back and exchanged it for a panny 58pz800u. After doing some more reading I went back and exchanged that for a last years model KURO 6010FD. That should tell you all you need to know.

I had the same dilema a few weeks back and mind you I was a Sony fan for years. Originally I had purchased a 52XBR6 and after reading online I immediately went back and exchanged it for a panny 58pz800u. After doing some more reading I went back and exchanged that for a last years model KURO 6010FD. That should tell you all you need to know.

Unless you wanted a 60 inch set I can't understand why you did that. According to many reports, the 800u is a better plasma than the 8gen Pioneers.

How is the set with watching SD Channels, HD Channels, and playing Video games in HD and non-HD (PS2 and wii)? Are the colors great like in movies? Do you have to be in a pure dark room to enjoy it?

Things have changed a little bit and it seems now I might be leaning towards the Kuro. The only thing is my Dad is worried about me refusing the shipment of the DLP when the shipping company calls and getting my refund back from crutchfield. Once I decide what I want to do I will call Crutchfield first.

I was initially going to put the DLP in the finished part of our basement for a sort of bachelor Home theater room for myself. Now my mom would rather me put it in my room (and I agree it would be more convenient since my computer is in here). I realized a way to perfectly put the Plasma in my room.

I have a question though. I know you guys watch your movies in the dark, the thing is my family mostly watches movies together on the Samsung LCD downstairs in the family room. I don't usually play games, watch show or movies with the lights turned off. I also will only be sitting like 8 feet away from the TV. Will I still be able to enjoy the inky blacks and good color reproduction?

Does anybody know how many bits panel used in current panny or pio plasma TV? Is it why the color gradient looks much smoother than Sony's 10bit XBR6 panel?

Am I asking the wrong question?

Does Anybody know how many bits panel used in current panny or pio plasma TV? Is it why the color gradient looks much smoother than Sony's 10bit XBR6 panel?

Am I asking the wrong question?AFAIK, the panny panel is intrinsically 8-bit and the Pioneer is intrinsically 4-bit or less. If you include halftoning then the Panasonic is 12+ bits and the Pioneer is even higher. I think the gradients are smoother thanks to halftoning.

AFAIK, the panny panel is intrinsically 8-bit and the Pioneer is intrinsically 4-bit or less. If you include halftoning then the Panasonic is 12+ bits and the Pioneer is even higher. I think the gradients are smoother thanks to halftoning.
By halftoning you're meaning dither, correct?

By halftoning you're meaning dither, correct?Error diffusion + spatial dithering + rotational (temporal) dithering

Error diffusion + spatial dithering + rotational (temporal) dithering
I wasn't aware error diffusion was used in plasmas. A horrible form of quantization, if you ask me.

I wasn't aware error diffusion was used in plasmas. A horrible form of quantization, if you ask me.Pioneer definietly uses it (in all their patents). Others I'm not sure about.

I wasn't aware error diffusion was used in plasmas. A horrible form of quantization, if you ask me.

Of course, that is why we need new technology.

Any answers to my last questions?

Sorry for bugging you guys. Thanks for the help. I actually see a deal at buy.com so I might pull the trigger on that. I'll have to call crutchfield to somehow cancel my order and then go to my local credit union to establish credit and get a card. Hopefully everything will work out.

I might be part of the kuro family soon:D

AFAIK, the panny panel is intrinsically 8-bit and the Pioneer is intrinsically 4-bit or less. If you include halftoning then the Panasonic is 12+ bits and the Pioneer is even higher. I think the gradients are smoother thanks to halftoning.
Is that on the Pioneer or Panasonic? The Pioneer is only 4 bit???

Blooming on an LCD? It must be defective, or you have dodgy source material or equipment. It is plasma that has pixel blooming hence the soft image.
:( The more I read, the more confused I get. I have read and heard the opposite. Blooming/halo effect on LCD's yet not on plasma, but PT's on plasma but not LCD's. I'm not contradicting you, I just simply want to know and stop getting so confused the more I read.

I use my 5020fd with a HTPC setup with no problem. I ran movies with the black bars and stuff, no break-in, many times already. I still haven't seen my first image retention, much less burn-in.
How long have you had your 5020FD?

I'm also very confused on this issue of the plasma picture (5020FD) getting WORSE over time. Does it or does it not loose contrast and brightness over time? Why do some say it does, why do some say it does not? :confused: If it does lose contrast and brightness, how long can the contrast and brightness control adjustments compensate for this loss?

How long have you had your 5020FD?

I'm also very confused on this issue of the plasma picture (5020FD) getting WORSE over time. Does it or does it not loose contrast and brightness over time? Why do some say it does, why do some say it does not? :confused: If it does lose contrast and brightness, how long can the contrast and brightness control adjustments compensate for this loss?

I have a 5080HD and also use it exclusively with an HTPC. No break in period, no screensaver. Used it for 20+ hours as a monitor to initially set up my HTPC this time when I reinstalled the OS. I have a little over 200 hours on it now. No image retention at all yet.

All displays lose some brightness over time. Unless there is a major failure (such as the backlight inverter dying in an LCD), that "some" is an incredibly small amount.

For example, using the numbers from http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-lifespan.html , a Plasma will only be 80% as bright after 20,000 hours - that's 8 hours a day, every day, for 6 years. It isn't a problem.

If, in 5+ years of OCD levels of TV watching, your TV looks a bit more dim, you can feel free to boost the brightness/contrast.

WOW - the amount of plasma fanaticism on this website is becoming too much...

Is the 1000$ prenium for kuro over the XBR6 really worth it? around here, that is the main difference.

I have a 5080HD and also use it exclusively with an HTPC. No break in period, no screensaver. Used it for 20+ hours as a monitor to initially set up my HTPC this time when I reinstalled the OS. I have a little over 200 hours on it now. No image retention at all yet.

All displays lose some brightness over time. Unless there is a major failure (such as the backlight inverter dying in an LCD), that "some" is an incredibly small amount.

For example, using the numbers from http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-lifespan.html , a Plasma will only be 80% as bright after 20,000 hours - that's 8 hours a day, every day, for 6 years. It isn't a problem.

If, in 5+ years of OCD levels of TV watching, your TV looks a bit more dim, you can feel free to boost the brightness/contrast.

Ok thanks. I just got a 5020FD, so I guess I can expect the same?

My only concern is that it would be so bad the adjustment controls wouldn't be able to compensate for it.

Can you please try that URL again with spaces or modified in some way? Looks like the forum edited it out with ***** marks.
Thanks.

..........
Can you please try that URL again with spaces or modified in some way? Looks like the forum edited it out with ***** marks.
Thanks.

Never mind I think l found it, plasma......tv.....buyingguide dot com. ?

Is the 1000$ prenium for kuro over the XBR6 really worth it? around here, that is the main difference.
FWIW the 5020FD can be had now around 2300 delivered. I guess the only people that can answer that are those that have compared them side-by-side. To me; the 5020 with the better PiP options, glowing reviews & top rated, usually a reference HDTV, owners that say they've never seen a better PQ, better with motion and flickering, I guess it was worth it since I just forked over the bucks for one. It better be. :eek: :D

Is the 1000$ prenium for kuro over the XBR6 really worth it? around here, that is the main difference.

Well, I am not sure how close the XBR4 is to the XBR6 but from what I have heard they are pretty close.

owned the XBR4 and there is simply no comparison between the two in my opionion.
I replaced my XBR4 with a 5080 (8th Gen 720p kuro) and the the 5080 was a large step up in picture quality.

And the 5020 is a noticable step up from the 5080 in my opinion. The blacks on the 5020 are simply unbeatable.

We were just in a similar dilema and we went with the Kuro 50" The Elite was out of our price range, $2200 for the Kuro...$4500 for the Elite :eek:

Ok thanks. I just got a 5020FD, so I guess I can expect the same?

My only concern is that it would be so bad the adjustment controls wouldn't be able to compensate for it.

Can you please try that URL again with spaces or modified in some way? Looks like the forum edited it out with ***** marks.
Thanks.

The way I look at it is that, by the time you can notice any change in brightness visually, you probably won't be using the set any more. A 20% drop in brightness isn't something you would easily notice or say "this is so dark, I can't make it out".

At a more reasonable (but still overkill, imo) 4 hours per day, every day, you'd hit that 20,000 hour mark in almost 14 years.

I really don't think it's a concern.

FWIW the 5020FD can be had now around 2300 delivered. I guess the only people that can answer that are those that have compared them side-by-side. To me; the 5020 with the better PiP options, glowing reviews & top rated, usually a reference HDTV, owners that say they've never seen a better PQ, better with motion and flickering, I guess it was worth it since I just forked over the bucks for one. It better be. :eek: :D

FYI:

A forum sponsor offers it below $1900 tax-free and shipped.

James

someone reported best buy has the Elite 111 at under $3k right now at BB, plus they have 36 month financing interest free if trying to justify it.

"Best HDTV ever", per CNET"

Well, I am not sure how close the XBR4 is to the XBR6 but from what I have heard they are pretty close.

owned the XBR4 and there is simply no comparison between the two in my opionion.
I replaced my XBR4 with a 5080 (8th Gen 720p kuro) and the the 5080 was a large step up in picture quality.

And the 5020 is a noticable step up from the 5080 in my opinion. The blacks on the 5020 are simply unbeatable.

I just replaced my XBR5 for a Panny 850U. Honestly, the difference was was night and day.

someone reported best buy has the Elite 111 at under $3k right now at BB, plus they have 36 month financing interest free if trying to justify it.

"Best HDTV ever", per CNET"

That's not for the "elite". It's for the 5020 I believe

That's not for the "elite". It's for the 5020 I believe

The Elites are going for under 3k at a popular B&M.

Well, I am not sure how close the XBR4 is to the XBR6 but from what I have heard they are pretty close.

owned the XBR4 and there is simply no comparison between the two in my opionion.
I replaced my XBR4 with a 5080 (8th Gen 720p kuro) and the the 5080 was a large step up in picture quality.

And the 5020 is a noticable step up from the 5080 in my opinion. The blacks on the 5020 are simply unbeatable.

I just bought a 5020 that will be replacing my 46XBR4. I hope I am blown away. I only watch tv in the dark, so the black level was pretty frustrating. I had considered a Sammy 650 LCD, but my neighbors isn't a whole lot better at night. This will be my first plasma. I was going to wait for the new Panasonics, but it seemed that the main improvement would be brightness levels. Since I am a vampire and my house is full of 20 watt bulbs, I didn't think I would need it. Power consumption means nothing to me either. My new Kuro will be available for pickup thursday, so its gonna be a long couple days......

I just bought a 5020 that will be replacing my 46XBR4. I hope I am blown away. I only watch tv in the dark, so the black level was pretty frustrating. I had considered a Sammy 650 LCD, but my neighbors isn't a whole lot better at night. This will be my first plasma. I was going to wait for the new Panasonics, but it seemed that the main improvement would be brightness levels. Since I am a vampire and my house is full of 20 watt bulbs, I didn't think I would need it. Power consumption means nothing to me either. My new Kuro will be available for pickup thursday, so its gonna be a long couple days......

Blown away is an understatement :)

The Elites are close to 50% off retail atm at Magnolia.

The Elites are close to 50% off retail atm at Magnolia.

That better not include the 141s. :mad:

I just bought a 5020 that will be replacing my 46XBR4. I hope I am blown away. I only watch tv in the dark, so the black level was pretty frustrating. I had considered a Sammy 650 LCD, but my neighbors isn't a whole lot better at night. This will be my first plasma. I was going to wait for the new Panasonics, but it seemed that the main improvement would be brightness levels. Since I am a vampire and my house is full of 20 watt bulbs, I didn't think I would need it. Power consumption means nothing to me either. My new Kuro will be available for pickup thursday, so its gonna be a long couple days......

Yea, you are going to be blown away. Once you go Pioneer (or plasma) you won't go back to LCD.

Make sure you post your thoughts when you get it hooked up.

Once you go Pioneer (or plasma) you won't go back to LCD.

Don't you think that's a little sensational?:rolleyes:

Don't you think that's a little sensational?:rolleyes:

Yes, I do think that Pioneer's are sensational

You are completly right Auditor, The Kuros are sensational!!

My local BB has the 111 for $2799 and the 5020 for $2199- sale ends Saturday

My local BB has the 111 for $2799 and the 5020 for $2199- sale ends Saturday

Yep. Awesome prices! I've got to keep myself from getting the 111 for another room. ;)

You are completly right Auditor, The Kuros are sensational!!

What is so sensational? When I saw a Kuro all I saw was a dim dithery display with weak dirty whites. I wasn't impressed. The only thing not weak was the price.

FYI:

A forum sponsor offers it below $1900 tax-free and shipped.

James

Who? If you mean plasma concepts dot com, yeah, I heard about that elsewhere, so I got totally screwed. It's actually 1996 now (IF they actually have it). So what it amounts to is I ended up paying 300 freakin' bucks for a DVD player I didn't even need. :mad: Nothing new. The day after I buy ANYTHING, it either drops in price or I find it elsewhere LOADS cheaper. Waiting doesn't matter, it's still the next day after. I checked prices on this mofo for SIX freakin' months too before I ordered. It's already been shipped too, so I can't to jack about it. Makes me SICK.

EDIT: BUT, if I really like it, I'm not going to complain....not much at least. 300 bucks is a lot. Maybe I can unload the Blu-Ray player.

someone reported best buy has the Elite 111 at under $3k right now at BB, plus they have 36 month financing interest free if trying to justify it.

"Best HDTV ever", per CNET"
Maybe B&M but not their website, they're 4500 right now online. Actually, they're not online, it says "In store only".

That's not for the "elite". It's for the 5020 I believe
The 5020 is 2200 at BB, but you have to pay $70 shipping plus tax, which is a fortune here.

The way I look at it is that, by the time you can notice any change in brightness visually, you probably won't be using the set any more. A 20% drop in brightness isn't something you would easily notice or say "this is so dark, I can't make it out".

At a more reasonable (but still overkill, imo) 4 hours per day, every day, you'd hit that 20,000 hour mark in almost 14 years.

I really don't think it's a concern.
Why do you use a 20k hour mark?

FYI:

A forum sponsor offers it below $1900 tax-free and shipped.

James

No such thing as "tax free" in the US. It simply means that you, not the retailer, assume responsibility for paying the appropriate taxes due at the delivery address.

Any online retailer that implies you don't have to pay taxes on your purchase is either crooked or incompetent. Not paying the taxes is illegal.

Sorry for interrupting the discussion, just wanted to set that straight.

No such thing as "tax free" in the US. It simply means that you, not the retailer, assume responsibility for paying the appropriate taxes due at the delivery address.

Any online retailer that implies you don't have to pay taxes on your purchase is either crooked or incompetent. Not paying the taxes is illegal.

Sorry for interrupting the discussion, just wanted to set that straight.

He wasn't saying that the retailer said it was tax free - however your are not charged tax at the time of purchase.

Whether or not your state wants to legally track down every online purchase made and attempt to charge you sales tax is another matter entirely.

The 5020 is 2200 at BB, but you have to pay $70 shipping plus tax, which is a fortune here.

Well I was just called my guy and he said he'd sell me the 50" 5020 for 1900.00! I don't even need a damn TV. So of course, I'm trying to quickly sell my Samsung LCD in the bedroom to buy this TV. I just bought a 58" Panny for the living room.

AM I CRAZY???? AHHHHHHHH

What is so sensational? When I saw a Kuro all I saw was a dim dithery display with weak dirty whites. I wasn't impressed. The only thing not weak was the price.

It probably has the best overall picture of the Plasmas. However, that's not enought for me to give up all hopes and dreams for future technology.

What is so sensational? When I saw a Kuro all I saw was a dim dithery display with weak dirty whites. I wasn't impressed. The only thing not weak was the price.

What model # Kuro? Where did you see it? What was the source?

I've seen my share of them in BB and the like, and always thought that they looked poor there. At home, or at a store better suited to viewing a quality TV, the results are ENTIRELY different.

Well I was just called my guy and he said he'd sell me the 50" 5020 for 1900.00! I don't even need a damn TV. So of course, I'm trying to quickly sell my Samsung LCD in the bedroom to buy this TV. I just bought a 58" Panny for the living room.

AM I CRAZY???? AHHHHHHHH

Nope, not crazy - this most recent round of price cuts pushed me over the edge as I have been looking for a TV for my fiancee. I got my hands on a 111FD for what a 5020 would have cost me just a week ago from an authorized dealer - I had to ask him 3 times to double check that he was quoting the 111's price and not the 5020's. I just hope this isn't an indicator of bad things to come for Pioneer...but for the time being the biggest thing I have to worry about is fighting the urge to get a Kuro for myself!

Very cool for your girl man!
Hell of a deal too!

What is so sensational? When I saw a Kuro all I saw was a dim dithery display with weak dirty whites. I wasn't impressed. The only thing not weak was the price.

lots to learn you have.
overbrightened backlights and torch mode settings is not what you guage a display by.

you ae obviously a "best buy drive by" videophile.

lots to learn you have.
overbrightened backlights and torch mode settings is not what you guage a display by.

you are obviously a "best buy drive by" videophile.


LOL... So true.

Dear God, give me a break. If anyone went by what a TV looks like at Best Buy, we would never buy a TV. NEVER.

What model # Kuro? Where did you see it? What was the source?

I've seen my share of them in BB and the like, and always thought that they looked poor there. At home, or at a store better suited to viewing a quality TV, the results are ENTIRELY different.


YEP! And that is still an understatement. Put the Kuro in a normal environment and you will be blown away.

lots to learn you have.
overbrightened backlights and torch mode settings is not what you guage a display by.

you ae obviously a "best buy drive by" videophile.

Not overbrightned backlights. Just a setting that won't wash out if someone lights a candle 50 ft away.

I never set a TV with full power backlights or phony "dynamic contrast" settings. But man for a TV that everyone is mental over I expected more. Plasmas need to be a bit brighter, have nice pure crisp whites, not burn-in with static images (like in games) and get rid of that awful dither. When they do that I would consider one.

Not overbrightned backlights. Just a setting that won't wash out if someone lights a candle 50 ft away.

I never set a TV with full power backlights or phony "dynamic contrast" settings. But man for a TV that everyone is mental over I expected more. Plasmas need to be a bit brighter, have nice pure crisp whites, not burn-in with static images (like in games) and get rid of that awful dither. When they do that I would consider one.

So you found the Kuro to be too dim even in your home setting?

I'm not sure what "dither" you're talking about though - I've seen 8G and 9G Elites and non-Elites being fed pristine material, and I've never seen any kind of "dithering". In fact, the picture was incredibly clean compared to most of their LCD counterparts. I'd take anything shown at a chain B&M store on any display (irregardless of technology) with a huge grain of salt since there's a myriad of things that may be (and probably are) set improperly that would render any apples-to-apples comparison of display technology limitations useless.

So you found the Kuro to be too dim even in your home setting?

I'm not sure what "dither" you're talking about though - I've seen 8G and 9G Elites and non-Elites being fed pristine material, and I've never seen any kind of "dithering". In fact, the picture was incredibly clean compared to most of their LCD counterparts. I'd take anything shown at a chain B&M store on any display (irregardless of technology) with a huge grain of salt since there's a myriad of things that may be (and probably are) set improperly that would render any apples-to-apples comparison of display technology limitations useless.

Don't worry, he just makes this stuff up as he goes along.

Well I listened to you guys. I cancelled my order at crutchfield and I am just waiting for a refund. I hope the sale at one of the sponsors of the site is still on when I get the refund back.

So about this 150 hour break in. Can you do that over time in between watching stuff? How bright will it be in a dark room, is there anything to cover it with? (It will be in my room and I planned on running the break in at night if not all day).

Do you guys recommend those backlight things?

Very cool for your girl man!
Hell of a deal too!

Thanks, it was a graduation present - she wanted to take her old Samsung 4661 LCD, but I told her there was no way I was going to watch movies on that thing and that she needed a nice TV. So I am partially looking out for me too :D

Well I listened to you guys. I cancelled my order at crutchfield and I am just waiting for a refund. I hope the sale at one of the sponsors of the site is still on when I get the refund back.

So about this 150 hour break in. Can you do that over time in between watching stuff? How bright will it be in a dark room, is there anything to cover it with? (It will be in my room and I planned on running the break in at night if not all day).

Do you guys recommend those backlight things?

Yes, you can watch TV while your doing the break in. My buddy has a Kuro Elite and never ever did break in and had no issues with his TV. I did a 100 breakin with my Panny. I either ran it all night (it was in the living room) or all day while I was at work. I would run it during the day while your at work if that's possible.

Well I listened to you guys. I cancelled my order at crutchfield and I am just waiting for a refund. I hope the sale at one of the sponsors of the site is still on when I get the refund back.

So about this 150 hour break in. Can you do that over time in between watching stuff? How bright will it be in a dark room, is there anything to cover it with? (It will be in my room and I planned on running the break in at night if not all day).

Do you guys recommend those backlight things?

I never actually did a break in. I was careful what I watch for the fist 150 hours or so. I didn't game or let static images stay on the screen for long. If you're worried about it watch the TV in "movie mode" for the first 150 hours or so or just do the break-in.

Just my luck - I'm taxiing in to Detroit international on the way to see my fiancee and R+L calls me and says they have a TV they want to deliver today! I won't be home until Tuesday so now I have to wait all weekend to play with my new toy. But I only ordered the TV 2 days ago...talk about quick!!

Do you guys recommend those backlight things?

:confused:

Well, my 5020 is up and running, and it absolutely KILLS my XBR4. I'm gonna have to go back and start watching movies again to see the differences. The black levels along with motion handling were a drastic and obvious improvement over the Sony. Being an LCD guy for a couple years, I can honestly say that I have no problem with whites whatsoever. Very brilliant and bright. The first disc I played was the Planet Earth 'Mountains' disc that starts off on a snowy mountain in the daytime. Awesome set.:) The great thing is that I paid about 500 less for this set than I did the 46XBR4.

Hey guys,

I just ordered the Kuro :D

I cancelled my order with crutchfield after it shipped. I'm just waiting for my refund.

I bought the Kuro from Plasma Concepts. I could have went with 6Ave for 50 dollars less but they have had shady service lately so I'd rather go with someone I can trust.

Thanks for the help guys wish me luck. I hope I love this TV. It is a big purchase for me :D

This might be the wrong place to ask something like this. But I'll need to buy some extra hdmi cables to go with my new set. "Cheap Cables" ie 5-10 dollar cables are as good as those "Premium Cables" right? Most of it is marketing to get you to pay more for the same digital cable?

Yeah, you're fine. For the most part, they are all the same. Only differences I have seen have been build. Some are stiffer are than others, which can raise some issues depending on your application.

Monoprice has two different guages. Do not get the thicker cables for average runs. They are way too stiff, and completely unneccessary for the shorter runs. Make sure you get the "High speed transmission" cables, which they all basically are anyway.

Not overbrightned backlights. Just a setting that won't wash out if someone lights a candle 50 ft away.

I never set a TV with full power backlights or phony "dynamic contrast" settings. But man for a TV that everyone is mental over I expected more. Plasmas need to be a bit brighter, have nice pure crisp whites, not burn-in with static images (like in games) and get rid of that awful dither. When they do that I would consider one.

I'm convinced people that say these things have never owned a Pioneer.

I'm convinced people that say these things have never owned a Pioneer.

That is why we unbiased scientific reviews/comparisons. As consumers we can't not afford to buy all the top plasmas and LCD's and bring them into our homes (even though we know deep inside we really favor a specific brand) and conduct credible comparison.

if you like your picture overly bright, washed out, and your blacks to look dark blue buy the xbr6. You think that 3-d effect is cinematic? enjor your cartoon looking 3-d effects. if you want your tv to look accurate buy the pioneer. the pioneer is the most accurate tv out there. that's fact. whether you like it or not is up to you

"I'm not sure what "dither" you're talking about though "

Don't worry, he just makes this stuff up as he goes along.

Yep just made it all up.

And so did all of these people as well. Looks like it must be mass hysteria to anyone other than a rabid plasma fan.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050664&highlight=dithering

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036526

No one in either of those threads complained about a Pioneer specifically.

I'm 6.5ft from my 111FD, and there is absolutely zero noticeable dithering from that distance, even on a completely black screen. And yes, properly calibrating your brightness will minimize the effect, but again, it's not at all an issue from a reasonable distance.

That is why we unbiased scientific reviews/comparisons. As consumers we can't not afford to buy all the top plasmas and LCD's and bring them into our homes (even though we know deep inside we really favor a specific brand) and conduct credible comparison.

Ironic that you're such a fan of "unbiased scientific reviews" yet you purposely misquote prices and specs in order to push your own agenda.

I saw the Kuro and Sony today in bestbuy and noticed few things :-
a) Kuro looked lot better than Sony in displaying images
b) Sony was a lot brighter than Kuro may be sony's brightness was turned all the way up .
c) Sony was reflecting little glare compared to Kuro.
d) Kuro only had basic menu's to tweak the pics (no settings for color temps) . Sony had tons of tweak options.
e) Not sure weather to get extended warranty for Kuro or Sony.
f) Are Kuro's pretty reliable compared to Sony.
g) Kuro has 72 Mhz compared to 120 for Sony not sure if that will make such a big difference.

There is only $400 difference between Sony and Kuro . I am not a picture perfectionist just want a nice tv which I can enjoy for couple of years.

How is Kuro compared to Sony when watching regular non hd tv. Can anyone name good internet retailer to buy the tv's from and easy to return .

Does anyone has Kuro and Sony and post their experiences with these tv's

I can't tell which of these are statements and which are questions. You should probably edit it and put the ? where they belong. As it is, I can only "comment" on a few things:


a) Kuro looked lot better than Sony in displaying images
b) Sony was a lot brighter than Kuro may be sony's brightness was turned all the way up.
The Kuro has several viewing "Modes" that change color temp and also brightness/contrast levels. (Standard, Movie, Game, Performance, Dynamic, Optimum).


d) Kuro only had basic menu's to tweak the pics (no settings for color temps) . Sony had tons of tweak options.
See "b".


g) Kuro has 72 Mhz compared to 120 for Sony not sure if that will make such a big difference.
Just FYI, that's "72hz", not "72Mhz". There are at least 2 schools of thought on that highly debatable area. Some say the 120hz sets look "artificial". Some say they like the affect. That's something you have to compare between the two, and be sure you're comparing them with the right content and settings. There's some refresh info on this page: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974732


There is only $400 difference between Sony and Kuro . I am not a picture perfectionist just want a nice tv which I can enjoy for couple of years.
You don't say which "Sony" you're talking about (XBR6?). The XBR6's are good, but the Kuros are always ranked at the top of tests. I stopped checking prices a while back after I got mine (5020FD), so I don't know which is $400 more. Even if it's the Kuro, I'd still get it, but that's just me. LCD's look like TV's. Kuro's look 3D and realistic to me, like you're looking through a window at whatever you're viewing and not a TV.


How is Kuro compared to Sony when watching regular non hd tv.
(A question? ;)) It depends on how good the signal is. I noticed on mine, it's the sharpest, cleanest most detailed PQ I have ever seen, on HD. The problem with these "better PQ" sets with those characteristics, is they will amplify any imperfections in the signal. I haven't seen any SD on a Sony so I can't personally compare the two. Since more and more channels are in HD, and soon they will all be HD, SD is becoming less and less of an issue.

You need to go somewhere that has both sets, where you can have full access to the remotes, familiarize yourself with both sets' full range of settings so you'll know what to adjust and when for the best PQ, be sure they have the exact same signal feed, then compare them. Don't forget about "viewing fatigue". Many times people will temporarily gravitate to a TV with a brighter picture. Personally, I won't, I prefer realism. Over a period of hours those brighter pictures start to lose their appeal and realism. Watching the Kuro, I find myself forgetting I'm watching a TV set.

I never even saw a Kuro before I bought mine. It was enough for me to see all the review sites giving it top marks, as well as users at forums saying it was the best PQ they've ever seen. I knew at worst, at the least, I'd be getting "a great TV". Now I can understand why all have been saying what they have been saying.

Hey guys,

I just ordered the Kuro :D

I cancelled my order with crutchfield after it shipped. I'm just waiting for my refund.

I bought the Kuro from Plasma Concepts. I could have went with 6Ave for 50 dollars less but they have had shady service lately so I'd rather go with someone I can trust.

Thanks for the help guys wish me luck. I hope I love this TV. It is a big purchase for me :D

You made the right choice!! I had a XBR/5, which was the flagship Sony and better than the XBR/6, before I bought the Elite and the Pio just blows it away. End of discussion!! Last time I ever own an LCD as my main viewing source. Enjoy your tv!!:D

This might be the wrong place to ask something like this. But I'll need to buy some extra hdmi cables to go with my new set. "Cheap Cables" ie 5-10 dollar cables are as good as those "Premium Cables" right? Most of it is marketing to get you to pay more for the same digital cable?

Yes, don't go the Monster route and get ripped off. Those cables are fine. I like Radio Shack's cables.

I edited my responses :-
I saw the Kuro and Sony today in bestbuy and noticed few things :-
a) Kuro looked lot better than Sony in displaying images . Is this because Sony's brightness was turned all the way up ?
b) Kuro looked much darker in displaying the same signal Sony was displaying . May be it was setup different that Sony.
c) Sony was reflecting little glare compared to Kuro. May be Sony KDL-52W4100 has better antiglare than Kuro.
d) Kuro only had basic menu's to tweak the pics (no settings for color temps) . Sony had tons of tweak options why is that ?
e) Not sure weather to get extended warranty for Kuro or Sony. Is the worth getting the extended warranty for Kuro .
g) Kuro has 72 hz compared to 120 for Sony not sure if that will make such a big difference.

There is only $400 difference between Sony 52W4100 and Kuro . I am not a picture perfectionist just want a nice tv which I can enjoy for couple of years.

How is Kuro compared to Sony when watching regular non hd tv on Cabelvision ?

Does anyone has Kuro and Sony 52W4100 and post their experiences with these tv's