Hey guys,

I just got myself a set of Energy RC-30 floor speakers... and i love them!!

I plan to connect them to my Pioneer Elite VSX 84TXI.

Should I bother bi-wring?
If yes, I am using the 2nd zone to power my bedroom (and bathroom in series, not sure why its been done that way but I bought the house that way).
So... can I bi-wire with rear speaker, i am only running 2 floor sepakers for now.


btw, what do you guys think of my RC-30s?

Dave

Bi wiring offers no technical benefit. You are just increasing the amount of wire used. Just buy a thicker (lower gauge) wire and you will get the same results.

I think you are asking about bi-amping, not bi-wiring.

If you are using the surround rear amps for Zone2, then you obviously cannot also use them to bi-amp your speakers.

I think you are asking about bi-amping, not bi-wiring.

If you are using the surround rear amps for Zone2, then you obviously cannot also use them to bi-amp your speakers.

...so can i bi-wire then? is it even worth it?

...so can i bi-wire then? is it even worth it?Sure. You can. Most people here would say that it provides NO benefit other than increasing the amount of wire going to the speaker, which is not really a benefit if your wire is already of sufficient gauge. Still, people continue to bi-wire speakers. And respected manufacturers include bi-wireable terminals and recommend bi-wiring as a means to improve performance. Try it if you'd like. But be very careful and objective with (and even skeptical of) any conclusions you come to. It is difficult to make the comparison correctly, which would be blindly and with the monowired speakers wired with a comparable gauge of wire. And preferably with the ability to A/B quickly.

And respected manufacturers include bi-wireable terminals

Sure. It allows them to seel to both the superstitious and non-superstitious, not just the latter.

and recommend bi-wiring as a means to improve performance.

The respected manufacturers don't.

Sure. It allows them to seel to both the superstitious and non-superstitious, not just the latter.



The respected manufacturers don't.

Actually the terminals are put there for bi-amping (real and useful) but can be used for (the superstitious) bi-wiring.

I noticed a difference once by adding more copper once... But that's because I had a 50' run... originally with 20 gauge wire. :eek: There was a small but audible improvement by going to 14 gauge wire. As anyone will tell you, 20 gauge wire is woefully inadequate at those lengths.

The rule of thumb here is just use 12 gauge and you'll be fine, although you can use thinner stuff for short runs. Now, if you have a somewhat longish run and only have say 16 gauge wire on hand, biwiring will serve to increase the amount of copper going to speakers, but that's all it's doing, nothing else magical.

Bi-amping is a completely different kettle of fish however.


Actually the terminals are put there for bi-amping (real and useful) but can be used for (the superstitious) bi-wiring.
Yeah, but that's not what the other poster said. He said that some manufacturers might recommend bi-wiring. As Bob said, any respectable manufacturer should not recommend bi-wiring.

Actually the terminals are put there for bi-amping (real and useful) but can be used for (the superstitious) bi-wiring.Whether bi-amping is even "real and useful" is certainly arguable. Of course, it would be expected to be more likely to provide a benefit than bi-wiring. And, yes, it is true that, IF passive bi-amping does provide a benefit, that that is probably the primary reason why the dual binding posts are there.

The respected manufacturers don't.Sure they do.

As Bob said, any respectable manufacturer should not recommend bi-wiring.Maybe they shouldn't. But they do. Some very respected companies recommend it. Vandersteen, B&W, KEF, Dali, etc.. I just do not believe that manufacturers recommend bi-wiring their speakers to simply satisfy their "superstitious" customers. Do I bi-wire my bi-wireable speakers? No. But that is not necessarily because I am convinced that it can't make a difference.



It should be pointed out that passive bi-amping is also bi-wiring. ;)

Actually the terminals are put there for bi-amping (real and useful) but can be used for (the superstitious) bi-wiring.I'd readily accept that argument if the entire crossover was removable/bypassable for this.

I'd readily accept that argument if the entire crossover was removable/bypassable for this.Do you still bi-wire your speakers, Kal? ;)

Do you still bi-wire your speakers, Kal? ;)Of course but, then again, I do that only for the benefit of my readers. :p

Of course but, then again, I do that only for the benefit of my readers. :pRiiiiight. ;)

I suspect that almost everyone who owns your speakers (or similar B&Ws), if they're not already passively bi-amping them, is bi-wiring them. Nothing to be ashamed of. :)

Sure they do.

I guess it depends on who's doing the respecting and for what.

To me, a manufacturer that recommends bi-wiring is actually saying, "We don't know how this stuff works."

Riiiiight. ;)

I suspect that almost everyone who owns your speakers (or similar B&Ws), if they're not already passively bi-amping them, is bi-wiring them. Nothing to be ashamed of. :)Actually, I have tried bi-amping and bi-wiring with these and other speakers but have not found any audible reasons to continue to do so. I generally do bi-wire because (1) most of the wires I have are biwire sets and (2) I avoid receiving emails from readers who tell me that a speaker under review would sound better with bi-wiring. :D

(2) I avoid receiving emails from readers who tell me that a speaker under review would sound better with bi-wiring. :D

Or a manufacturer rebuttal?;)

Super string computational super-imposition. . .

I can feel the presence of Jimmy Neutron approaching.

Regards,

Actually, I have tried bi-amping and bi-wiring with these and other speakers but have not found any audible reasons to continue to do so. I generally do bi-wire because (1) most of the wires I have are biwire sets and (2) I avoid receiving emails from readers who tell me that a speaker under review would sound better with bi-wiring. :D

OffT: Kal, I read your review of the B&W 802D's (bi-wired of course to stay on topic). Did you decide to buy them after you reviewed them?

I'm (im)patiently waiting on my 802D's to be delivered.

OnT: Even though I preach against bi-wiring my mains (803D's right now) are actualy bi-wired. :o I had extra wire and banana plugs so it was a cause of use it lose it.

Super string computational super-imposition. . spaghetti?

OffT: Kal, I read your review of the B&W 802D's (bi-wired of course to stay on topic). Did you decide to buy them after you reviewed them?Could not let them go. And they have gotten better with the newer amps.

What I find interesting is that a super high-end mono-block amplifier such as the Electrocompaniet NEMO, includes dual, and what appear to be paralleled, speaker outputs and, based upon the diagram in the sparse connection instructions, the manufacturer simply assumes that the end-user will be using bi-wirable speakers and, indeed, bi-wiring them. Certainly, if they are simply paralleled outputs, it can be connected otherwise, but still, I think that it is interesting that they provide dual outputs specifically to facilitate bi-wiring. Go figure. And, no, I definitely do NOT think that those outputs are meant to be used to drive 2 speakers simultaneously. And, no, before you say it, those outputs do not represent separate outputs off of the 2 separate amps that are bridged within that mono-block amp. As far as I can tell, they are simply paralleled outputs.

http://www.electrocompaniet.com/products/power-amp/nemo.html

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/300electro/index.html


And when do they need these back, Kal? I am really enjoying them. ;)

spaghetti?

Yes sir.

Regards,

To me, a manufacturer that recommends bi-wiring is actually saying, "We don't know how this stuff works."

To me, a manufacturer that recommends and promotes bi-wiring is actually saying "We know precisely how it works and why it's nonsensical but promote it anyway because it's in our best interest to do so".

Regards,

... I still dont know if bi-wiring is possible with rear L/R (2nd zone is already used)... but it's of no use now, i'll just make sure my wire gauge is low enough.


thanks.

Dave

off topic... can anyone recommend a software to copy dvds?


dave

... I still dont know if bi-wiring is possible with rear L/R (2nd zone is already used)... but it's of no use now, i'll just make sure my wire gauge is low enough.


thanks.

Dave

Bi-wiring is ALWAYS possible and you can bi-wire (or multi for that matter) any speaker to a connection. If there aren't two connections (A and B) just hook the 2 wires to the same connection on your receiver for the exact same results. ;) Even if there is an A and B connector it's still just hooked up to the same circuit behind the connector so it make no difference (other than the logistics of hooking up).