I know it's a life long debate, but I'm going to buy a 52" tv in the near future and I want some feedback about them.

I mainly watch hockey, so motion blur is important, also, the room has 3 window, so it's bright, there's no window directly in front of the tv.

Is a plasma still better for motion blur than 120hz? how bad is the glare in a room with a few window with a plasma screen? Which screen will be bright with great contrast?

I think the plasma is the best, but I'm affraid the glare will lessen the experience.

Do you have any model recommandation?

Damn I hate compromise.

Well if you want a 52" then you can only get LCD. Cause plasma only has a 50". Aside from that you should check out the numerous threads on different makes and models as well as comparison threads. Just do a search and it'll bring up several threads that will help you.

Plasma is better for motion, period. 120hz and motion interpolation are more band aid than solution.

IMHO, whille all sports are so much more enjoyable in HD, I think hockey gains the most benefit. It is SO much easier to follow the action. It may actually be easier still on an LCD because of the motion trail, but I prefer no lag. Some people are sensitive to a green trail from certain plasmas, but I'm not among them.

I have a plasma in a very bright room, southern sun directly at the screen. We have fabric drop down blinds that control the glare without turning the place into a darkroom. The blinds eliminate most of the reflection, but not 100%. It works fine for me, YMMV. Some of Samsung's 120hz displays that I've watched are actually more reflective than my plasma.

Recommendations would depend your seating distances, angles, and budget.

Panasonic and pioneer have pretty good anti-reflective coatings. I can see reflections on my panny 46" but only during very dark scenes in a very well lit room.

You'll want to avoid glossy lcds like the samsung 650 series as they produce a lot of glare- luckily samsung has started to produce matte versions like the 630 series.

LCD blows away plasma in brightly lit rooms.

I have a Panasonic 58PZ850U with sun that shines on it directly during the day. Of course, the contrast isn't the greatest with these conditions, and I do think LCD would prevail for daytime watching. However, I am still happy with my decision to go Plasma. During daytime conditions, I use a different mode with the settings notched up. I don't have a problem not seeing the screen - but I know the PQ isn't at it's best. Most of my TV watching is late afternoon - night anyways, when the Plasma shines.

As for your questions - IMO - motion is better on plasma than 120hz LCDs. You have to ask yourself when most of your TV watching is - then weigh the pros/cons.

Good luck!

LCD blows away plasma in brightly lit rooms.

Eh... lcd is better in brightly lit environments as long as it has a matte screen, which most of the top tier lcds are now using a glossy coating- a mistake in my opinion.
At least with the matte finish you'll avoid glare (but not wash-out).

In a brightly lit room lcds' disadvantage in contrast vs. plasma tends to disappear. So the real question is when will you do your watching. If you will always watch tv in daylight or with all the lights in the room on I think lcd is a fantastic option. If you're like me and do a little of both- lights on and lights off for movies- stick with the plasma.

LCD is akin to holding your hand over the end of a flashlight, in a brightly lit room you won't see any light from the flashlight- but turn the lighs off and that's a different story.

Eh... lcd is better in brightly lit environments as long as it has a matte screen, which most of the top tier lcds are now using a glossy coating- a mistake in my opinion.
At least with the matte finish you'll avoid glare (but not wash-out).

In a brightly lit room lcds' disadvantage in contrast vs. plasma tends to disappear. So the real question is when will you do your watching. If you will always watch tv in daylight or with all the lights in the room on I think lcd is a fantastic option. If you're like me and do a little of both- lights on and lights off for movies- stick with the plasma.

LCD is akin to holding your hand over the end of a flashlight, in a brightly lit room you won't see any light from the flashlight- but turn the lighs off and that's a different story.

I disagree. The great black levels you get from a plasma like the Kuro is greatly diminished when watching it in a brightly lit room. Not so with a top flight LCD. LCD sets are brighter and do better in brightly lit rooms.

I disagree. The great black levels you get from a plasma like the Kuro is greatly diminished when watching it in a brightly lit room.
I agree, if the ambient light is completely uncontrolled.
Not so with a top flight LCD. LCD sets are brighter and do better in brightly lit rooms.
I disagree with this. You can pump the brightness higher than a plasma, and your whites may benefit, depending on other settings. But the blacks will suffer for it and turn to grey, and the rest of the color pallet becomes over saturated. I appreciate and respect that *you* prefer the LCD in torch mode. But truthfully, in this scenario, either tech is a subjective trade-off. To state your preference as universal fact is simply not correct.

The truth is that bright ambient light is not a friend to either tech.

I disagree. The great black levels you get from a plasma like the Kuro is greatly diminished when watching it in a brightly lit room. Not so with a top flight LCD. LCD sets are brighter and do better in brightly lit rooms.

what good are those blacks on an lcd with a glossy panel (namely the samsungs) when the glare and reflections are so bad that you can't see anything but a reflection?

the only way to beat the Samsung glare is to close the blinds, and if your gonna do that then you might as well get a plasma because it will look better in that situation and you can also watch it in the daytime and get an amazing picture.

What is the big obsession with watching TV in a room with every window open and the sunlight banging on the panel??

I think Auditor was referring to overall brightness, not glare.

LCDs will outperform any plasma in a overly bright enviornment. While the blacks on some plasmas will suffer in a bright enviornment, LCDs will shine. There is a catch though, when lighting is controlled, LCDs black levels diminish substantially, while plasmas have a perceived increase in overall contrast.

OP, you noted you were interested in one of the two techs, but you did not mention which models you were looking into. It isn't as simple as "LCD vs Plasma" anymore. It boils down to manufacturer.

I have the Sammy 5084 (soon to be the A650) and I might as well have this thing outside my living room is so bright. Having 4 kids is one of the major reasons I bought a plasma because of the glass screen.

That said, I would get a plasma again in a heartbeat, kids or not. The picture is stunning and when the wife and I finally get to watch tv at night when the kids are sleeping and the room is dark, the pic is the best ive ever seen.

My main concern is the window, I don't want to have to put a curtain in front of the window in the day to watch the tv. Also I'm not sure if I'm going to keep my projector setup, so this tv might be used only when the sun is up and then the projector would take over.

If I can have a do it all tv, it would be nice too.

So far I'm leaning toward the A750, I prefer Plasma, but I'm afraid I'l be disappointed with the glare and brightness.

My budget is around 2000-2500$ I don't want to spend a fortune on a tv right now.

I guess I could also buy a plasma and if I don't like it, return it for something else.

Ok, so you were looking at the A750, and what plasma? At that price range, I am going to go ahead and assume you were considering the Kuro, since it can be had at a ridiculous price atm.

All things considered, if glare is your biggest concern, I would go with the Kuro in this instance. It is an overall better set, and will have less glare than that particular Samsung (or any with the UCP for that matter). If you need the added brightness, then the Samsung may in fact be the better choice for you.

If it were me, I would get the Kuro, it is in fact, that much better than the Samsung.

Guys, I think there is a dedicated thread for any plasma vs. LCD comparisons. Expect a padlock any moment.

Guys, I think there is a dedicated thread for any plasma vs. LCD comparisons. Expect a padlock any moment.

Hence the reason why I asked what models he was comparing.

Read my post a few notches up.

My budget is around 2000-2500$ I don't want to spend a fortune on a tv right now.


if that is your budget and you are looking for a 50", you would be a fool not to get the 5020 kuro.... there isn't an LCD on the market that can compete with pioneer's 9th gen PDPs

My main concern is the window, I don't want to have to put a curtain in front of the window in the day to watch the tv. Also I'm not sure if I'm going to keep my projector setup, so this tv might be used only when the sun is up and then the projector would take over. If I can have a do it all tv, it would be nice too. If the TV will exist solely for daytime viewing in an overly bright room, then you might just want to punt and get a good LCD with a matte screen and live with the lesser picture quality. I'm a fan of the Toshiba LCDs and the 52RV530U looks pretty nice as LCDs go. If i had to get a larger LCD, this would be a leading contender.


So far I'm leaning toward the A750, I prefer Plasma, but I'm afraid I'l be disappointed with the glare and brightness.....I guess I could also buy a plasma and if I don't like it, return it for something else.Some big determining factors include the direction(s) that your windows are facing, the location of the TV in relation to them, and even what city/state you live in (for latitude/sunlight-angle purposes). South facing windows tend to let the most light in mid day, while East or West facing windows aren't as big of a problem. North facing windows are often a non-issue since the sun usually doesn't actually shine on them during most of the year (presuming you're in the USA). You may find that a Plasma can work just fine in your room during the day and then you'll have your do it all TV.

Here's a good glare thread that may help:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769318

if that is your budget and you are looking for a 50", you would be a fool not to get the 5020 kuro.... there isn't an LCD on the market that can compete with pioneer's 9th gen PDPs

He would be a fool only if he doesn't mind dim screens. He has stated that room light is an issue. In this case a good LCD without a glossy screen will beat any plasma hands down. The plasma will grey out to the point where it is almost unwatchable.

An LCD is MUCH brighter than a Kuro. In a dark room the black level on that LCD won't be as good, until you turn down the backlight. Everyone claims that plasma blacks are great. If you turn down an LCD backlight to the point where the whites are as dim as a plasmas whites then the blacks will be pretty much the same.

I think Auditor was referring to overall brightness, not glare.

LCDs will outperform any plasma in a overly bright enviornment. While the blacks on some plasmas will suffer in a bright enviornment, LCDs will shine.

Yes, in an overly bright environment the black levels maintain better for LCD because the phosphors on Plasmas reflect light and turn greyish.
But this is only when they are in a environment with a heavy amount of light.
Not in normal room lighting.

We don't want the OP to believe some when they claim that you have to have a dark room for a plasma. That is complete bull hockey pucks.

The point I was trying to make is that IMO the better blacks you get with a glossy LCD in heavy lighted situations are hindered by heavy reflections that can make the extra black levels useless when you see a reflection of your lamp in the screen.
With my 71F LCD, I could see a clear reflection of any concentrated light source like a lamp or window. Which bothers me much much worse than how a plasma black levels are hurt by heavy light.

Side Note:
I previously said that I am totally happy with the brightness of my Kuro and could care less if future plasmas get super bright like they are going to be getting.
Well, I am going to retract that statement and change my mind on the whole subject.
I am very happy that the newer plasmas (neo's and 10G's) are going to be brighter. That way there can be no more claims that you have to live in a cave to enjoy your plasma, there will be no more confusion between "whiter whites" and "Brighter whites", And Plasma will also appeal more to those that are loooking for that "super bright poppyness".:D .

regardless if all that brightness is needed for a proper picture, It will benefit some. SO its a good thing in my book.

If you turn down an LCD backlight to the point where the whites are as dim as a plasmas whites then the blacks will be pretty much the same.This was already explained to you. When you turn down the backlight you dim all APLs equally. Do you understand how that is not the same as Plasma?

If your MAIN concern is overall Light for daytime and plan on using a projector for night, then I say go for the Samsung A630. This way you have a matte screen void of huge reflections (like you would wit the 750), and you still have 120hz since you mentioned that.

However, if you were to choose 1 for day & night, I say go plasma (I personally like the Panasonic and Pioneers if your budget allows for it).

He would be a fool only if he doesn't mind dim screens. He has stated that room light is an issue. In this case a good LCD without a glossy screen will beat any plasma hands down. The plasma will grey out to the point where it is almost unwatchable.

An LCD is MUCH brighter than a Kuro. In a dark room the black level on that LCD won't be as good, until you turn down the backlight. Everyone claims that plasma blacks are great. If you turn down an LCD backlight to the point where the whites are as dim as a plasmas whites then the blacks will be pretty much the same.

I am sorry, you are wrong

what good are those blacks on an lcd with a glossy panel (namely the samsungs) when the glare and reflections are so bad that you can't see anything but a reflection?

the only way to beat the Samsung glare is to close the blinds, and if your gonna do that then you might as well get a plasma because it will look better in that situation and you can also watch it in the daytime and get an amazing picture.

What is the big obsession with watching TV in a room with every window open and the sunlight banging on the panel??

Last night, I was watching the game and working on legal documents at the same time and I need to have the lights on.

I'm not trying to take anything away from plasma, I own one myself, however not a mighty Kuro like yourself. Anyway a brightly lit room diminishes the some of the superlatives of a fine set like a Kuro much more than its does a LCD. I have seen this over and over again. I've never been a complainer about reflections, I would find away to control relections or just wait until night fall.

If your MAIN concern is overall Light for daytime and plan on using a projector for night, then I say go for the Samsung A630. This way you have a matte screen void of huge reflections (like you would wit the 750), and you still have 120hz since you mentioned that.

However, if you were to choose 1 for day & night, I say go plasma (I personally like the Panasonic and Pioneers if your budget allows for it).


+1

I like my Panasonic plasma, but if I were doing most of my viewing in a bright sunlit room the a630 would be my choice.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't watch a plasma in a bright room and you can't watch an LCD in a dark room.

They just each excel in each of those environments respectively.

Last night, I was watching the game and working on legal documents at the same time and I need to have the lights on.


This is why ISF-Day on the kuros was created.:D

LCD blows away plasma in brightly lit rooms.

way to much sensationalism and to general of a statement in that comment to be taken seriously . Do they typically out perform? yes. Blow them away? no way. :rolleyes:

way to much sensationalism and to general of a statement in that comment to be taken seriously . Do they typically out perform? yes. Blow them away? no way. :rolleyes:

Allow me to take that statement away. I agree, it is too much sensationalism.

I am sorry, you are wrong

+1.

And I own both. As noted, neither LCD or plasma will render blacks with any sense of depth in a well-lit room. It is simply not going to occur.

There's 7 days in a week. For at least five of them, I'm not even getting home til at least 5pm, so daytime/significant sun conditions are not even a concern for nearly 2/3's of the year (Summer months can be difficult til 7ish in many areas). For the other two (Saturday and Sunday), I do not partake in a significant amount of tv viewing before 3 PM (ok, there are some Sundays between October and December!) so I have to be cautious to not over-estimate my "viewing time" there either.

On the whole, the vast majority of MY viewing occurs in the evening. I realize this is not the case for EVERYONE. I'm just attempting to note the importance of soberly analyzing the times you watch television when considering the pluses and minuses of LCD and plasma tv tech.

In my case, this reality made my choice easy. ;)


Good luck,
James

And I own both. As noted, neither LCD or plasma will render blacks with any sense of depth in a well-lit room.

That's true, but won't you agree that LCD will handle brightly lit room conditions better than plasma?

That's true, but won't you agree that LCD will handle brightly lit room conditions better than plasma?

Wasn't this established? I think so. Both technologies have their pros/cons. We have laid out several scenarios for both LCD and Plasma to excel.

To the OP - Have you come any closer to a decision after reading all of our garbled talk?

Wasn't this established? I think so. Both technologies have their pros/cons. We have laid out several scenarios for both LCD and Plasma to excel.

To the OP - Have you come any closer to a decision after reading all of our garbled talk?

Thank you. As an FYI, there are some folks that have a real hard time conceeding any advantage to LCD.

Thank you. As an FYI, there are some folks that have a real hard time conceeding any advantage to LCD.

I'm not sure why, but I love it when someone (though it rarely happens) agrees with you. :)

Thank you. As an FYI, there are some folks that have a real hard time conceeding any advantage to LCD.

I Agree. But I can also say the same about others and plasma :)

But let's put it to rest and see what the OP decided to do.

I'm not sure why, but I love it when someone (though it rarely happens) agrees with you. :)


Not to go off topic, but I wanted know why you chose the Panny 850 over the 6020?

I Agree. But I can also say the same about others and plasma :)

But let's put it to rest and see what the OP decided to do.

Agree.

Not to go off topic, but I wanted know why you chose the Panny 850 over the 6020?

I know this was directed towards BuyLongTerm, but I can also speak on it as I was in the same decision - 6020 or 850U.

One word - VALUE. After tons of research, viewing both, talking to both owners, I concluded (to myself) that the 58PZ850U was the best bang for the buck. I truly wanted the 6020 but at the time, I could not justify the extra 1k. If pricing is more like it is now, It may be a different story. But I'm also impressed with the user community in our official 850 thread. You won't find any unhappy campers and everyone is working towards making this set the best it is.

Oh and I should mentioned I started off my quest looking to price an XBR5 and LN52A650.

Not to go off topic, but I wanted know why you chose the Panny 850 over the 6020?

Because I was a HUGE LCD guy. I just sold my XBR5 and wanted to buy another TV. (something I find myself doing once a year) I convinced myself that I hated plasma's. Since I wasn't really impressed with the new XBR8 (not worth the $$), or any of the new LCD's, my buddy "CubbieChris", said just try a Plasma in your house and I promise you will like it. Since I was still a bit skeptical about Plasma's, I didn't want to take a chance and spend a crap load of money on a Pioneer. And If I did buy a Pioneer, I would of had to of bought the Elite. So, I went with the next best thing which was the 850U. I am still stunned to this day. next year I will be buying the Elite.

I honestly never thought in a million years that I would EVER own a plasma. Boy was I wrong! :)

I know this was directed towards BuyLongTerm, but I can also speak on it as I was in the same decision - 6020 or 850U.

One word - VALUE. After tons of research, viewing both, talking to both owners, I concluded (to myself) that the 58PZ850U was the best bang for the buck. I truly wanted the 6020 but at the time, I could not justify the extra 1k. If pricing is more like it is now, It may be a different story. But I'm also impressed with the user community in our official 850 thread. You won't find any unhappy campers and everyone is working towards making this set the best it is.

Oh and I should mentioned I started off my quest looking to price an XBR5 and LN52A650.

Exactly. I sold my XBR5 for the 850U and honestly there simply is NO comparison.