It looks like I am going to have the opportunity to get a new display after receiving a credit from the warranty company for a bad panel on my Sony 52XBR3. The store that I bought from does not carry Pioneer so my first replacement choice is not an option.

I'm looking at the 58PZ850U and would like to know if this is the next best thing? I've done a short demo with TDK on Blu and thought it looked pretty good but had a tad bit of additional grain that the Kuro Elite did not have and seemed to slightly crush the blacks. I only took a few minutes to make some minor PQ adjustments so I'm sure it could look better but I wanted to ask here?

This will either cost me $0 out of pocket or at worst about $600-$800. I've looked at the Samy 950 and did not like the AMP mode or the washed out colors from off axis viewing angles. The Kuro Elite is obviously the best but I thought the 850 looked damn good and wanted some recommendations from the experts. This will probably be my only HT display for the next 5 years or so and I want to chose wisely! Advise please:o

It looks like I am going to have the opportunity to get a new display after receiving a credit from the warranty company for a bad panel on my Sony 52XBR3. The store that I bought from does not carry Pioneer so my first replacement choice is not an option.

I'm looking at the 58PZ850U and would like to know if this is the next best thing? I've done a short demo with TDK on Blu and thought it looked pretty good but had a tad bit of additional grain that the Kuro Elite did not have and seemed to slightly crush the blacks. I only took a few minutes to make some minor PQ adjustments so I'm sure it could look better but I wanted to ask here?

This will either cost me $0 out of pocket or at worst about $600-$800. I've looked at the Samy 950 and did not like the AMP mode or the washed out colors from off axis viewing angles. The Kuro Elite is obviously the best but I thought the 850 looked damn good and wanted some recommendations from the experts. This will probably be my only HT display for the next 5 years or so and I want to chose wisely! Advise please:o

As far Plasma goes, the Panny 850 is considered the next best thing to the Pioneers.

It looks like I am going to have the opportunity to get a new display after receiving a credit from the warranty company for a bad panel on my Sony 52XBR3. The store that I bought from does not carry Pioneer so my first replacement choice is not an option.

I'm looking at the 58PZ850U and would like to know if this is the next best thing? I've done a short demo with TDK on Blu and thought it looked pretty good but had a tad bit of additional grain that the Kuro Elite did not have and seemed to slightly crush the blacks. I only took a few minutes to make some minor PQ adjustments so I'm sure it could look better but I wanted to ask here?

This will either cost me $0 out of pocket or at worst about $600-$800. I've looked at the Samy 950 and did not like the AMP mode or the washed out colors from off axis viewing angles. The Kuro Elite is obviously the best but I thought the 850 looked damn good and wanted some recommendations from the experts. This will probably be my only HT display for the next 5 years or so and I want to chose wisely! Advise please:o

No doubt the 151FD is the best display right now. I'm an owner of the 58PZ850 and have absolutely no regrets with it. Its a great display and always impresses guests that come over. There is some great information in the 850U thread dealing with Service menu / user settings to get the best out of your display, you should take a look.

If your still not sold on the 850 side by side to the Elite, I think the 6020's dropped temporarily. Still will cost you more than the 850U but its up to you.

Even if you want a 6020, I would get the 58PZ850 simply to use the store credit. Unless you are debating selling the store credit to someone somehow?

Even if you want a 6020, I would get the 58PZ850 simply to use the store credit. Unless you are debating selling the store credit to someone somehow?

No, I was looking at the 6020 and Pro-111fd a few weeks back and actually bought a 111 but returned it before I even opened it so I could wait and deal with this warranty stuff.

I just want to make sure I shouldn't be considering another display but from what I've read the 850 falls just behind the 6020. After the flashlight and cloud issues I've had with my XBR3 and reading the same complaints about the XBR6 and many of the Sammy's I'm leaning away from LCD.

So, assuming I'm not required to use the warranty credit on the same brand (Sony) should I be looking at any others aside from Pany?

.. Panasonic th-65pz850u. :)

Ok, I've got the approval and am getting ready to pull the trigger. Anyone else care to weigh in with thoughts or other things I should consider?

the th58pz850 should make a very nice display for you. go for it.

That is a nice upgrade, the Panasonic will smoke your old sony ;) Good thing you bought the warranty.

I thought the drawback to the 850s vs. the 800s was their lack of THX color--has that been addressed somehow? Or is calibration capable of making the picture good enough as makes no difference, IE, is the THX mode only a bandaid for poor factory calibration?

Cnet seems to think the 800U has better Picture Quality than the 850U

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-50pz800u/4505-6482_7-32886472.html?tag=mncol;lst

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-50pz850u/4505-6482_7-32896587.html?tag=mncol;lst

Both reviews touch on the "flicker" issue in the 24P viewing mode with these 2008 Panasonic flagship lines.
I own a PZ46800U and do not see this flicker issue that apparently is seen when watching Blu Ray content with the Blu Ray output set at 24P (24frames per second) and the PZ800U's 24P mode set at 48HZ. Setting the mode at 60 HZ. eliminates the flicker.
People complain of a slight flickering in very bright scenes (outdoor skyscapes etc...). I have not seen it on my 800U (in either 24P 48 hz, or 24P 60 hz), but others complain....

Just thought I should make you aware of this flicker "flaw" in the 800U and 850U. Panasonic has acknowledged the flaw and has no immediate plans to try and fix it with firmware or hardware replacement.

Panasonic has addressed this issue in the new 2009 lineup due out in March.

Here is a thread for 800U owners http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1007175

IF your store where you have credit is Best Buy, they have a Pioneer Kuros 5020 on sale for $2199 with 36 no interest financing....

I would endorse the PZ800U myself, I own the 46" model and love it.
especially now that many retailers are slashing prices to get rid of the 2008 models (there will be no more 800U or 850U models, they are being replaced by a whole new set of model lines for 2009).
Good luck, and yes Plasma rules over LCD.

In order:

Pioneer
Panasonic
Sony
Samsung

No doubt the 151FD is the best display right now. I'm an owner of the 58PZ850 and have absolutely no regrets with it. Its a great display and always impresses guests that come over. There is some great information in the 850U thread dealing with Service menu / user settings to get the best out of your display, you should take a look.

If your still not sold on the 850 side by side to the Elite, I think the 6020's dropped temporarily. Still will cost you more than the 850U but its up to you.

lazi0ne,
do you see any flicker using Blu Ray at 24P 48hz on your 850U?
Some people make a big deal out of this and others (like myself) don't seem to notice it at all...

As far Plasma goes, the Panny 850 is considered the next best thing to the Pioneers.


Wow, we agree! :)

Definitely get the 850U. I was thinking about the 800, but I like to be able to play with the extra settings and customize the TV how I like it. I didn't think I'd like the Vieracast, but I now LOVE IT

Priced at $2800 today at my local Best Buy. I paid $3500 for it 2 1/2 months ago at Best Buy. Salesman said only a 30 day price guarantee.

I owned Sony Bravia 52". I have always liked Sony. The picture looked fabulous at first, going from a 36" CRT. I then started to have issues already discussed on this board.

I enjoy the Kuro and I don't have any issues other than the changing of channels is slower than the Sony.

Cnet seems to think the 800U has better Picture Quality than the 850U

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-50pz800u/4505-6482_7-32886472.html?tag=mncol;lst

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-50pz850u/4505-6482_7-32896587.html?tag=mncol;lst

Both reviews touch on the "flicker" issue in the 24P viewing mode with these 2008 Panasonic flagship lines.
I own a PZ46800U and do not see this flicker issue that apparently is seen when watching Blu Ray content with the Blu Ray output set at 24P (24frames per second) and the PZ800U's 24P mode set at 48HZ. Setting the mode at 60 HZ. eliminates the flicker.
People complain of a slight flickering in very bright scenes (outdoor skyscapes etc...). I have not seen it on my 800U (in either 24P 48 hz, or 24P 60 hz), but others complain....

Just thought I should make you aware of this flicker "flaw" in the 800U and 850U. Panasonic has acknowledged the flaw and has no immediate plans to try and fix it with firmware or hardware replacement.

Panasonic has addressed this issue in the new 2009 lineup due out in March.

Here is a thread for 800U owners http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1007175

IF your store where you have credit is Best Buy, they have a Pioneer Kuros 5020 on sale for $2199 with 36 no interest financing....

I would endorse the PZ800U myself, I own the 46" model and love it.
especially now that many retailers are slashing prices to get rid of the 2008 models (there will be no more 800U or 850U models, they are being replaced by a whole new set of model lines for 2009).
Good luck, and yes Plasma rules over LCD.

Interesting, I was under the impression that the 850 had superior black levels. I have no plans to connect the TV to the internet so if that is the main cost difference between the 800 and 850 models and PQ is even I may reconsider.

The credit is with Anderson's TV and they don't carry Pioneer.

Priced at $2800 today at my local Best Buy. I paid $3500 for it 2 1/2 months ago at Best Buy. Salesman said only a 30 day price guarantee.

I owned Sony Bravia 52". I have always liked Sony. The picture looked fabulous at first, going from a 36" CRT. I then started to have issues already discussed on this board.

I enjoy the Kuro and I don't have any issues other than the changing of channels is slower than the Sony.

Thats about what I paid for the 58" 850U

Interesting, I was under the impression that the 850 had superior black levels. I have no plans to connect the TV to the internet so if that is the main cost difference between the 800 and 850 models and PQ is even I may reconsider.

The credit is with Anderson's TV and they don't carry Pioneer.


If you like to play with your settings get the 850U. If you don't, then get the 800U.

"The 850U does have a wider color gamut compared with the 800U, and in place of the THX mode there's a picture mode the company calls "Studio Reference." This model also features the ability to fine-tune the color temperature and a host of other picture parameters like gamma, courtesy of a "Pro Setting" picture menu that's only available when you select the "Custom" picture mode. Otherwise the feature set is basically identical to that of the TH-50PZ800U."

"The Panasonic TH-50PZ850U can produce a superb picture, anchored by some of the deepest blacks we've seen, and while we do complain about its color accuracy compared with the HD standard, its color is still better than many high-end HDTVs on the market.

"As we mentioned above, the TH-50PZ850U offers a Studio Reference mode that, as expected, turned out to deliver the most-accurate out-of-the-box picture. We ended up calibrating the set's grayscale in Custom mode, however, since it was the only one that allowed any tweaking of white balance. In the end we were able to improve color temperature and color accuracy a bit, although most of our other settings were similar to studio reference. Check out our full picture settings for details. "

"Black level: The Panasonic TH-50PZ850U exhibited the one of the deepest shades of black we've ever witnessed on any display. The letterbox bars above and below the film, along with shadows and blackness in dark scenes, such as when Vincent and Jerome go out in the middle of the night to watch the rockets lift off, appeared inky and true. Compared with the other displays in the room, only the Pioneer mustered a deeper shade of black, and just barely; the 850U was even the tiniest bit deeper than the 800U, although there's no way we could have differentiated if the displays weren't side-by-side; and of course the two Samsung displays were lighter. Shadow detail, such as the edge of Vincent's hair, the folds in Jerome's jacket, and the details around their silhouettes against the night sky, looked natural, with the appropriately shallow rise from black to lighter shadows.

Whatever model you chose, you will be very happy

Keep in mind with any high-end display that a pro calibration is pretty much necessary to realize a display's true potential and to see all the colors accurately.
So a lot of apparent deficiencies in color accuracy, etc... mentioned in many reviews are criticisms of the factory default settings. Many of these deficiencies are resolved with accurate calibration, though of course inferior products have inherent problems that cannot be resolved.
Either of these Panasonics 800U or 850U will produce astoundingly excellent picture quality after a calibration.

True the 850 has more options in the User settings menus to tweak the picture than the 800U, which can be considered a "plus" for many. Though keep in mind that using your naked eye to adjust these settings will not equal a calibration with a colorimeter hooked up to a PC which can analyze and graph the effects of any changes to the settings.
A pro-calibrator will access the service menu on either model, and be able to adjust either the 800U 0r 850U to produce a picture far superior to any settings that can be done via the User menu.

Owners of the 800U (on the 800U owner's thread here on AVS) who have had a pro calibration, report dramatic improvements over the already excellent picture quality.
Go to this link to understand the mechanics of calibration. It is a DIY guide for the brave DIY'ers among us, but otherwise an excellent primer on the subject and necessity of calibration. http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
I believe it is recommended to do a calibration after the first 100-200 hours, so the plasma has time to break itself in.
I guess the bottom line is that a calibration is needed to have your display accurately reproduce color, and after calibration is done you would seldom if ever go to the Picture menu to adjust anything. That is just my humble opinion.

Like mentioned in an earlier reply, you will be happy with either the 800U or the 850U.
Good luck

By the way both models come with a very nice stand that swivels about 10 degrees in either direction. It is very elegant and very stable.
Just thought I would throw that out there in case you were considering whether or not to mount it on a wall or place it on a piece of furniture.

Thanks for all the feedback, I think the 850 will be what I want. When I had my 52XBR3 I was constantly messing with the gamma, w/b, and other settings. I found settings from cnet and folks here and was messing with it a lot (and enjoyed doing it). I would like to get a pro out to calibrate but I think I will break it in first then try robbyrockets settings and see how I like them.

As far as the stand it will be in my garage after I pull the TV out of the box. I had my 52 sony mounted and will do the same with this. I like the look of a mounted TV and would have no where to put my center chanel otherwise.

and yes, I have corrected the overly inward angle of my mains since this pic

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/iamjackspictures/My_HT.jpg

It looks like I am going to have the opportunity to get a new display after receiving a credit from the warranty company for a bad panel on my Sony 52XBR3. The store that I bought from does not carry Pioneer so my first replacement choice is not an option.

I'm looking at the 58PZ850U and would like to know if this is the next best thing? I've done a short demo with TDK on Blu and thought it looked pretty good but had a tad bit of additional grain that the Kuro Elite did not have and seemed to slightly crush the blacks. I only took a few minutes to make some minor PQ adjustments so I'm sure it could look better but I wanted to ask here?

This will either cost me $0 out of pocket or at worst about $600-$800. I've looked at the Samy 950 and did not like the AMP mode or the washed out colors from off axis viewing angles. The Kuro Elite is obviously the best but I thought the 850 looked damn good and wanted some recommendations from the experts. This will probably be my only HT display for the next 5 years or so and I want to chose wisely! Advise please:o


I spent several hours comparing the 50" 2008 Pioneer LX509 KURO to the 50" Panny 50PZ850A (Australia), side by side.

I had walked to the store to order a KURO, but ordered a 850A.
The short answer - if money is no object - buy the Panny - yes, really !!

The long answer;
The Panny is pretty much the same in most areas, providing you adjust the factory default sharpness to 0 (zero). With the sharpness on '50', it just looks crap against the KURO.

Blackness - the KURO is 2-3% darker (all measurements using my 'eye-ometer').

Detail - KURO 3% better on one pinstripe, Panny is 10% better on the detail of Oprah's knitted jumper. Kuro 1-2% better on Dr Phill's guest's hair. Bugger all in it. But a think the Panny was 1% better overall.

Channel Change time - the KURO is woeful, eg 5-10secs. Panny, 2-3 secs.

Blu-ray player audio pass through - KURO, not a all !!, Panny, stereo only.

But the big difference is jitter, judder, shake - call it what you will. On 1080i HDTV, the KURO looked ok, until I watched the 850A for a while. With Panny's 'intelligent frame creation' on (could be Aus and EU models only ?...) the Panny just smokes the KURO. You really would not believe how crap 25fps (and 24fps for that matter) looks until you have doubled the frame rate - smoooth as silk. The frame doubler is best turned of during the cricket, as the ball can get 'lost' as it flies across the screen. I have now owned the the PZ850A for a month now, and generally leave the frame doubler on - the scrolling credits are just sooo smooth.

But, my mate bought a LX509 KURO at the same time, and he is happy with it, and I understand that it uses less power than the Panny.

Only gripe (minor) - fan noise. In the dead of night, with the volume down to close to zero, there is a detectable dull roar, and can be heard from my lounge 4metres away. You cannot hear the fans any other time.

Both these sets completely blow the rest of the field away. My brother bought a SONY Bravia 3 months ago, and I just cannot believe how crap it looks - and he paid more than I did for my panny !!

Buy either the KURO or the PZ850 - you will be satisfied.

Just curious why no one has suggested waiting for the new 2009 V10 displays

Just curious why no one has suggested waiting for the new 2009 V10 displays

Not an option, not only will they certainly cost more but if I have to come home to this 24" RCA CRT POS much longer I'm going to need depression meds. Since they took my Sony 52XBR3 for "repair" I've been stuck with this and I have little patience as it is.

I own a 850u, but I still prefer 5020 Kuro. (No offense to 800U/850U owners).

Too bad. I just love the deep deep black level of Kuro, even only 3% better than 850u.

I came from CRT RPTV. that's why.