Okay, well first off, I just want to say:

I really need some help regarding what HDTV to get, size, resolutions, etc., but I don't know all the details and variables that go into deciding which one to get. I've got a basic understanding of this sort of thing, but I love this forum and CNET because I'm always finding some great, helpful info, in the little time I've browsed here and there. So anyway, to my questions. (There's a lot, hopefully not too many, it's just I'm a bit overwhelmed and would appreciate any help you can give).

I keep hearing people say "Don't get a 1080p TV that isn't 50" or bigger!", because you won't notice the difference, unless your super-close. So is that true? Is it not worth it to get a 1080p TV under 50"? Also, if it isn't worth it, I'll probably go for a 50" or 52". If that's the case, I'm making sure not to spend over $2000 for a TV (I've got to buy speakers and everything I need for surround sound or whatever), so that's an estimate of my price range. (I had originally promised myself not to go over $1000, then it went up to $1500, then I seen the $2000 TVs and I'm like, "Okay, THIS is my limit, no more!" :P).

Oh, and I should mention that this is for an apartment. Is 50"-52" overkill?

Anyway, I wanted to know about gaming next. I'm a huge gamer, so a TV being good for gaming is important to me. But a few things:
-I've read that LCDs are better than Plasmas for gaming, while Plasmas are better for watching movies. Is this correct, or does it vary totally depending on brand, the TV specs itself, etc? Thing is, I love movies as well, and I plan on being a big watcher of Blu-ray. So would LCDs be good for doing both? (I'd probably say I'll do 60% gaming with 360/PS3, 40% Blu-ray via PS3, so pretty close, and that's obviously just a guess).

I also plan on getting some kind of HD-DVR, and I am a sports fan so I guess that could factor in to my decision as well.

But anyway, back to what I was saying about games. A big concern/confusion I have for gaming on an HDTV is this::

Resolution. From what I hear, most games (360/PS3) are native 720p, and not many are natively in 1080p, but are instead upconverted (or whatever it's called) to 1080p, while Blu-ray is 1080p (my big reason for wanting 1080p). But here's where the confusion comes from: if the game is 720p, will it look any worse on a 1080p set (because of the upconversion), or will it look the same, or better, on a 1080p set?

I've also read that game lag is an issue. So does the upconversion process from 720p to 1080p make it lag more? Also, if the set has a 'game mode', will that reduce said lag?

Anyway, assuming I get an LCD over a Plasma, here are some LCD TVs that I've seen recommend by others, and heard some good things about them (in that price range of $2000, if you know any better TVs at that size then please mention them, or any Plasmas that you'd recommend if you think I should rather get a Plasma instead):

-Samsung LN52A650 (I've heard really great things, and this is probably my top choice right now)
-Sony Bravia KDL-46XBR6 (but again, here comes the '1080p under 50"' argument, so Idk if this one is worth it. 6 more inches on a very comparable Samsung sounds better to me)

If I did get a Plasma though, these have caught my eye:

-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ850U
-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U

I've heard these are the best 50" Plasmas at the $2000 price range. Sounds very good to me. Wouldn't know which to get, but CNET preferring the 800u makes me lean towards the 800u. The YouTube feature of the 850u isn't that important to me. But, the THX mode on the 800u seems like a dream for me, considering I wouldn't know what I'm doing in the settings, and wouldn't want to pay for a professional calibrator. So this is pretty important to me. But, on the other hand, I hear that the 850u provides much more tweaking possibilites for better calibration overall, but like I said, I wouldn't want to pay for a pro calibrator, so if someone has good calibration settings on here or CNET or something, then I guess the 850u would be the better option. But Idk. Also, I've seen people say that the '24p' mode flickers or something, but I have no idea what that is.

Also, in the CNET reviews of these, I saw a 'Game' mode option. If this is ideal for gaming, on top of the great preset THX mode for the 800u, then I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to not get the 800u over one of those LCDs (or any others) that I mentioned. But then again, Idk about this stuff much, so maybe you guys can help lead me in the right direction. (Also, would 'THX mode' be best only for movies, or would it work well for TV and other stuff as well?).

Also, another Plasma I seen was the Samsung PN50A650, which seems like a lot of bang for your buck at $500 cheaper than all these other ones. But I'm still liking the 800u a lot. Oh, and I've heard good things about the 85u, which similarly is much cheaper for similar specs (or so I've heard).

But, I've heard about the new Panasonic line-ups coming in a few months. Since that's probably around the time I'd get this new TV, the timing seems perfect. If the prices drop well enough of the 800's and whatnot, then that'd be good for me. But, if any of the new models are around $2000 and better than these current ones, then I suppose I could pick up one of those. Ah, so many things to consider! I just read about the new lines, but prices haven't been given yet (that I've seen). In the 50" range, the V10's 50" is available in May, the G10's is available in March, and the S1's in March as well (the flagship Z1 line is only available in 54"). There's also the 720p line of X1, which also has 50", except I didn't see a date of when that's coming. Would you guys recommend getting a 800u (or any others I mentioned?) or just wait for one of these models? Well, I suppose I should just wait for pricing.

Oh, and one final thing: is this 'Burn-In' or 'Image Retention' issue something I'll have to worry about if I got a Plasma? I've also read of some kind of 'break-in' period for the first 100-150 hours. I've heard that recent Plasmas don't suffer from burn-in, so I think I should be fine with any of these sets if I did decide to buy one of the aforementioned (or any other) Plasmas.

So anyway, it seems to be between a Plasma (the 800u) and a LCD (the a650). Such a tough decision and I'm assuming it basically comes down to the Plasma vs LCD argument which I have no idea which to prefer. Of course, like I said, these are just ones I've read about online, and have seen people recommend, but if you have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them (and would be very thankful for!).

Lastly, I realize that this is a long post with probably many questions you've heard before, but I really would appreciate any help you guys could give. It's sites like this that help people less tech-savvy (i.e. me) enjoy the benefits of HDTV.

Edit: Lol, I didn't realize just how long this post was, I'll trim it down to more of a bullet-points kind of questions thing if you want.

I wouldn't consider 50" in an apartment overkill at all (people have 50+ in their bedrooms).
How far are you sitting from the set?
You'll probably notice the benefits of 1080p if you sit closer than 10ft on a 50".
The displays you listed for plasma and lcd are currently the best bang for the buck, although the kuro 5020 has dropped to 2200 recently, so you might want to consider that if you can stretch it.
There is never a perfect time to buy a new tv. The tech moves fast and top tier items don't get deep discounts on events like blackfriday/christmas etc. The best thing to do is just narrow down what you want and shop for the best current deal. Its easy to see pricing trends if you use something like pricespider. If you wait for the right time you'll end up waiting forever.

Go look at them and see which one looks best to your eyes. And 50" is not overkill, just make sure it has enough HDMI and the other inputs you will need. And then we can talk about AVR tuners and speakers!

Mike

I keep hearing people say "Don't get a 1080p TV that isn't 50" or bigger!", because you won't notice the difference, unless your super-close. So is that true? Is it not worth it to get a 1080p TV under 50"?

I've personally never understood the "don't get 1080p unless the set is 50" or more" rule. It seems to be a gross generalization, at best. You really need to consider your own personal circumstances.

Now, ppl will argue over whether or not you can notice a major difference in picture quality between 720p and 1080p on small sets, all else being equal. Fine, go judge that for yourself, and buy accordingly. But I will say that, if you sit close enough to a large enough set, the 'screen door effect' can become quite noticeable on the 720p sets.

In other words, you'll notice the individual pixels, because on a set that's both large and 720p, the individual pixels will be large, and if you're sitting close you'll notice that. And then it will look like you're looking at the picture through a screen door. It's really annoying, and once you notice it, it's very hard to un-notice it. :(

How sensitive you are to that is dependent on the individual. For myself, I notice SDE (screen door effect) on 42" 720p sets at up to about 7 feet. On bigger 720p sets, further away than that.

So, think about how big your viewing space is, and how far away you intend to sit away from your set, and work that into the equation.


Oh, and I should mention that this is for an apartment. Is 50"-52" overkill?

Depends on what your viewing distance is, and what your personal preferences are.

Some ppl like to sit close with a huge set practically shoved up their nose, for the 'immersive' aspect of TV viewing.

Others are horrified by that, because sitting close to a huge set they can then see any and all flaws in the picture, or they just don't enjoy feeling like their retinas are being fried. It's really up to you.

But, if you really want some sort of general average, I did a poll here on preferred viewing distance, and the most popular answers were that ppl liked a viewing distance of anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 times the screen size. So I guess that 2x screen size is average, i.e. if you sit 8 feet away from your set, then a 4 foot screen, i.e. 46" to 50", is about right. But that's just an average... and you might not fit the average in your preference.

And one monkey wrench I'd point out is, again, the 'screen door effect'. It's not so great to sit close to a large-ish 720p set. At a 2x the screen size viewing distance I still notice SDE on a 720p set, so I'd sit further back from those. But, that's me.


-Samsung LN52A650 (I've heard really great things, and this is probably my top choice right now)
-Sony Bravia KDL-46XBR6 (but again, here comes the '1080p under 50"' argument, so Idk if this one is worth it. 6 more inches on a very comparable Samsung sounds better to me)
-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ850U
-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U

That's a good short list. If you can stretch your budget a little, the Pioneer 5020FD 50" plasma is a really stellar set, and on sale at Best Buy for $2199. Definitely worth a look, even if the price is a little beyond what you think you can pay. A lot of TV reviewers use Pioneers as their 'reference' or 'benchmark', i.e. the standard by which all other sets are judged. That's about the best endorsement you can get.

That said, I myself am a bit more of an LCD guy (I like LCD's strengths of sharpness and brightness, though plasma has its strengths too), and would probably be looking more at the Samsung A650 on your list, which I'm very familiar with and like a lot.

The XBR6 is also a very good set, but I found the picture quality on it to be about the same as the Samsung, and the XBR costs more, if we're talking the same size of TV set.

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Thanks for the great responses guys!

I wouldn't consider 50" in an apartment overkill at all (people have 50+ in their bedrooms).
How far are you sitting from the set?
You'll probably notice the benefits of 1080p if you sit closer than 10ft on a 50".
The displays you listed for plasma and lcd are currently the best bang for the buck, although the kuro 5020 has dropped to 2200 recently, so you might want to consider that if you can stretch it.
There is never a perfect time to buy a new tv. The tech moves fast and top tier items don't get deep discounts on events like blackfriday/christmas etc. The best thing to do is just narrow down what you want and shop for the best current deal. Its easy to see pricing trends if you use something like pricespider. If you wait for the right time you'll end up waiting forever.

Alright cool.

Well the thing is, I haven't moved into my apartment yet (that's partially why I'm waiting), so the 'waiting' thing really isn't too big of a deal for me atm. The new line of Pannys should come out right around the right time for me, so I don't have a problem waiting for them. Thing is, I don't know the prices on them yet so I'm just going to have to wait it out to see what I think about them. But thanks for the advice. After looking at models like the Kuro Elite and hearing all the rave about them, I'm extremely jealous and know I'm going to have some sort of buyer's remorse after purchasing a different set lol. I should try and see if I can persuade my roommate into splitting the cost with me, haha. :p

As for the 5020, I wasn't aware it was such a bargain! After looking into it more, it might persuade me to go for it, but Idk. I'm wondering how it compares to the 800u. (If the 5020 is better and worth that extra $200, I'd definitely bite on that price).

Oh and as far as my distance, I'd say 8' or so, somewhere around there. But as I said, I haven't moved yet, so that may vary.

Go look at them and see which one looks best to your eyes. And 50" is not overkill, just make sure it has enough HDMI and the other inputs you will need. And then we can talk about AVR tuners and speakers!

Mike

Yeah, well, I plan on having HDMI for:

-PS3
-360 Elite
-DirecTV HD-DVR (haven't got this yet)

Wouldn't know what else I'd need one for. But the thing is, I'm going to be getting speakers and all that stuff for a 5.1 set or something, but wouldn't I have the HDMI cables hooked up to the receiver? (I wouldn't know, I don't know anything hardly about surround sound yet, and that's just what I'm pretty positive I've read).

I've personally never understood the "don't get 1080p unless the set is 50" or more" rule. It seems to be a gross generalization, at best. You really need to consider your own personal circumstances.

Now, ppl will argue over whether or not you can notice a major difference in picture quality between 720p and 1080p on small sets, all else being equal. Fine, go judge that for yourself, and buy accordingly. But I will say that, if you sit close enough to a large enough set, the 'screen door effect' can become quite noticeable on the 720p sets.

In other words, you'll notice the individual pixels, because on a set that's both large and 720p, the individual pixels will be large, and if you're sitting close you'll notice that. And then it will look like you're looking at the picture through a screen door. It's really annoying, and once you notice it, it's very hard to un-notice it. :(

How sensitive you are to that is dependent on the individual. For myself, I notice SDE (screen door effect) on 42" 720p sets at up to about 7 feet. On bigger 720p sets, further away than that.

So, think about how big your viewing space is, and how far away you intend to sit away from your set, and work that into the equation.

Yeah, that's helpful because I had heard about the SDE but I never really knew exactly what it was. But hmm, ic, yeah, I'm most likely going to get a 1080p set, they seem to be worth it, but like I said earlier, there's still just ONE thing keeping me apprehensive about 1080p. Like, for gaming (or HD cable or satellite I guess as well), since most games are in native 720p, then would they look worse (due to the upconversion) on a 1080p set? I ask this because I seen in some article that said if you have a 1080p set and it is upconverting a 720p source, such as a game or something, then you're more than likely to notice 'motion artifacts' (not positive exactly what this is). I don't want to really sacrifice the PQ of games, so Idk. Though I'm fairly positive I want 1080p for Blu-ray. Or is the whole upconverting process from 720p to 1080p negligible and I won't notice?


Depends on what your viewing distance is, and what your personal preferences are.

Some ppl like to sit close with a huge set practically shoved up their nose, for the 'immersive' aspect of TV viewing.

Others are horrified by that, because sitting close to a huge set they can then see any and all flaws in the picture, or they just don't enjoy feeling like their retinas are being fried. It's really up to you.

But, if you really want some sort of general average, I did a poll here on preferred viewing distance, and the most popular answers were that ppl liked a viewing distance of anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 times the screen size. So I guess that 2x screen size is average, i.e. if you sit 8 feet away from your set, then a 4 foot screen, i.e. 46" to 50", is about right. But that's just an average... and you might not fit the average in your preference.

And one monkey wrench I'd point out is, again, the 'screen door effect'. It's not so great to sit close to a large-ish 720p set. At a 2x the screen size viewing distance I still notice SDE on a 720p set, so I'd sit further back from those. But, that's me.

Ic, ic. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to sit like 4' or 5' from a 50-52" screen. Like I said, probably around 8', so yeah, right around that average you said.


That's a good short list. If you can stretch your budget a little, the Pioneer 5020FD 50" plasma is a really stellar set, and on sale at Best Buy for $2199. Definitely worth a look, even if the price is a little beyond what you think you can pay. A lot of TV reviewers use Pioneers as their 'reference' or 'benchmark', i.e. the standard by which all other sets are judged. That's about the best endorsement you can get.

That said, I myself am a bit more of an LCD guy (I like LCD's strengths of sharpness and brightness, though plasma has its strengths too), and would probably be looking more at the Samsung A650 on your list, which I'm very familiar with and like a lot.
.

Yeah, I just noticed the Kuro on Amazon for that price. I hope the price doesn't jack back up by the time I decide to buy a set, because if I don't go for one of the new Panny's this year then I'm probably going to be going for one of the few I mentioned, or the 5020 you guys mentioned.

My list seems to be narrowed down to these now:

-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U (I think I'd rather just go for this than the 850u if I chose one of these, I just like the sound of the THX mode, another reason I'm really anticipating the new line as well, in addition to the other additions).

-Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD (I'm glad you guys pointed this out because I'm really liking the sound of this one. If it really is better than the Panny by a decent to good amount and for only $200 more, then I'd probably put this at the forefront of my list).

-Samsung LN52A650 (Seems to be my top pick for LCDs. I do game a lot which I keep hearing LCDs are better for, but I also do watch a lot of sports and movies, and will definitely be a big Blu-ray watcher. So even though I would consider myself more of a 'gamer' than a 'film buff', it just seems like the amount of stuff I've heard Plasmas have the advantage in, that I'd probably go that route. But my mind isn't fully made up yet, I'm still weighing my options).

Also like I said, the new '09 Panny's sound mighty-enticing from what I've seen, so I'm definitely looking closely at them too. I'm hoping some of the few shortcomings that the 800u has (such as the 24p flicker), gets fixed and then I'd probably be 100% on getting one of them (providing they're not too out of my budget), not sure which yet, going to have to research each model more.

the benefits of having 1080p for bluray will outweigh any negative effects the tv might have on upscaling a game from 720p to 1080p.
most scalers are decent these days so i'd say the impact on your gaming will be negligible.

Wouldn't know what else I'd need one for. But the thing is, I'm going to be getting speakers and all that stuff for a 5.1 set or something, but wouldn't I have the HDMI cables hooked up to the receiver? (I wouldn't know, I don't know anything hardly about surround sound yet, and that's just what I'm pretty positive I've read).

If you want a receiver that will do the job and nothing more, I would suggest budgeting about $400, and yes you would have to hook up the HDMI to the receiver and then to the TV for at least the blu-ray. You can get the onkyo 6100 HTIB which has a receiver, speakers and sub of decent quality that meets all cuddent suround requirements for about $6-700. buying good speakers separate of a receiver you'll be spending at least $1k, i'd suggest looking at HSU, they're a forum sponsor and I've heard they're stuff and really enjoyed it. Polk and klipsch are also have good stuff at reasonable proces and are fairly popular.


Yeah, that's helpful because I had heard about the SDE but I never really knew exactly what it was. But hmm, ic, yeah, I'm most likely going to get a 1080p set, they seem to be worth it, but like I said earlier, there's still just ONE thing keeping me apprehensive about 1080p. Like, for gaming (or HD cable or satellite I guess as well), since most games are in native 720p, then would they look worse (due to the upconversion) on a 1080p set? I ask this because I seen in some article that said if you have a 1080p set and it is upconverting a 720p source, such as a game or something, then you're more than likely to notice 'motion artifacts' (not positive exactly what this is). I don't want to really sacrifice the PQ of games, so Idk. Though I'm fairly positive I want 1080p for Blu-ray. Or is the whole upconverting process from 720p to 1080p negligible and I won't notice?

720p stuff still looks good on 1080 sets. Upconverting from SD is where most sets really suffer, but at the price point you're lokoing it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Yeah, I just noticed the Kuro on Amazon for that price. I hope the price doesn't jack back up by the time I decide to buy a set, because if I don't go for one of the new Panny's this year then I'm probably going to be going for one of the few I mentioned, or the 5020 you guys mentioned.

My list seems to be narrowed down to these now:

-Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U (I think I'd rather just go for this than the 850u if I chose one of these, I just like the sound of the THX mode, another reason I'm really anticipating the new line as well, in addition to the other additions).

-Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD (I'm glad you guys pointed this out because I'm really liking the sound of this one. If it really is better than the Panny by a decent to good amount and for only $200 more, then I'd probably put this at the forefront of my list).

-Samsung LN52A650 (Seems to be my top pick for LCDs. I do game a lot which I keep hearing LCDs are better for, but I also do watch a lot of sports and movies, and will definitely be a big Blu-ray watcher. So even though I would consider myself more of a 'gamer' than a 'film buff', it just seems like the amount of stuff I've heard Plasmas have the advantage in, that I'd probably go that route. But my mind isn't fully made up yet, I'm still weighing my options).

Also like I said, the new '09 Panny's sound mighty-enticing from what I've seen, so I'm definitely looking closely at them too. I'm hoping some of the few shortcomings that the 800u has (such as the 24p flicker), gets fixed and then I'd probably be 100% on getting one of them (providing they're not too out of my budget), not sure which yet, going to have to research each model more.

I would suggest previewing all the sets, since LCD vs plasma is something that differs from viewer to viewer. I personally notice alot of motion blur and hate the smoothing effects that 120hz monitors use, think they look fake. IIRC, the Sammy has a pretty substantial input lag which could sway your decision since you game alot. I've heard there's a trick like plugging into a specific HDMI input and using a certain picture mode that minimizes it though.

As far as the kuro vs the 800U, the 800U is more tweakable than the kuro, and the THX setting is supposedly almost perfect out of the box. I don't remember if it's the base kuro or the elite, but i've heard that certain model pioneers exhibit significant input lag, due mostly to the magic the image processors work on it.

I think your best bet would be the 800U, but all of those sets are fine choices.