Opinions? My Great room is 30' x 18' x (14' H) and also open to a loft.

hsu VTF-3 MK3 (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html)
ed A7S - 450 (http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=640)

Which (of these) single sub wins in this comparison? Really don't have the space for matched dual subs.

neither is going to do much good in a room that size. if you can't build your own, i'd go for the eD or wait till their ported version comes out.

i currently have two ufw-12's and one VTF3-HO. my room is approx. 3500 cubic feet and my bass is nice, but not enough.

Really don't have the space for matched dual subs.

You don't have the space in a room that size for dual subs?:eek:
Please elaborate.:)

I believe the VTF-3 MK3 is made up to rooms of 6000 cubic feet.

The A7S-450 will have a very substantial output advantage. In your room you can use all of the output you can get.

You don't have the space in a room that size for dual subs?:eek:
Please elaborate.:)


HA! I really don't have anywhere to "hide" a second one. This is a "Great" room with both living room and dining room furniture. I suppose I could rearrange things... but would prefer not to.

The A7S-450 will have a very substantial output advantage. In your room you can use all of the output you can get.

I'm really not looking to implode my chest... :D ... I'm currently using a 14 year old Velodyne F 1200 B, that according to the guys at Velodyne... was designed for "light weight music in a very small room". I definately notice a significant difference whether it's on or off. I know it can be better though.

I'm really not looking to implode my chest... :D ... I'm currently using a 14 year old Velodyne F 1200 B, that according to the guys at Velodyne... was designed for "light weight music in a very small room". I definately notice a significant difference whether it's on or off. I know it can be better though.

Actually the A7s-450 will have more overall output, but clean output only above 35hz or so(audible clean bass without any sound besides the recording)...

I have both the A7s-450 and the HSU 3.3...
The 3.3 is to my taste more musical than the A7s(with better transients), the 3.3 is also cleaner, and better sounding. Only in mid bass output the A7s-450 distinguishes itself from the HSU 3.3. In that midbass department the A7s is a killer sub.

Actually the A7s-450 will have more output, but clean output only above 35hz or so...

I have both the A7s-450 and the HSU 3.3...
The 3.3 is to my taste more musical than the A7s, the 3.3 is also cleaner a better sounding. Only in mid bass output the A7s-450 distinguishes itself from the HSU 3.3.

Cool... you have both. So given the size of my room, and the fact that I will be using it mostly for movies...... and my front speakers are Definitive Technology BP10 (bipolar) with an advertised Frequency Response of 20 Hz - 28 kHz.... which of these 2 would you recommend?

I'm really not looking to implode my chest... :D ... I'm currently using a 14 year old Velodyne F 1200 B, that according to the guys at Velodyne... was designed for "light weight music in a very small room". I definately notice a significant difference whether it's on or off. I know it can be better though.

Both the Hsu 3.3 and A7S-450 should be a big step up in output from the Velodyne. I'd personally prefer the A7S, but both subs have a reputation of being great performers.

Cool... you have both. So given the size of my room, and the fact that I will be using it mostly for movies...... and my front speakers are Definitive Technology BP10 (bipolar) with an advertised Frequency Response of 20 Hz - 28 kHz.... which of these 2 would you recommend?

Considering the finish, size, and the bass each provide....The 3.3 is an all around better sub.

May be there's something wrong with cacihome's a7s if he says vtf3 has better SQ. megasat16 puts it on par with pb13 in SQ here in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15137541&postcount=5130). So is vtf3 a better sounding sub than pb13? And mfw-15, that a7s has also been said to equal in sq by elockett, and has been ranked higher by craigsub? I never hear any extra sounds or distortion from my a7s, only the signal.

May be there's something wrong with cacihome's a7s if he says vtf3 has better SQ. megasat16 puts it on par with pb13 in SQ here in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15137541&postcount=5130). So is vtf3 a better sounding sub than pb13? And I never hear any extra sounds or distortion from my a7s only the signal.
IMO, disregarding output, the VTF-3.3 and PB13U sound very similar, each having advantages in certain areas.

Those that like the eD, may like the mid-bass performance....and why they give it the edge. Myself, I would be more interested in transient response and upper bass performance.

Are u guys comparing the A7S 450 with the eQ.2?

I have the HSu 3.3 but on paper, the A7 has the edge in output. A room that size, I would recomend the A7. BTW, Craigs list is not bible folks and should only be used as a reference. Just because one is a point or two above another, doesn't make that one a lesser sub. Most, may find it very difficult to tell the difference between many on the list...remember customer service, finish, quality of components and build.

I have the HSu 3.3 but on paper, the A7 has the edge in output. A room that size, I would recomend the A7. BTW, Craigs list is not bible folks and should only be used as a reference. Just because one is a point or two above another, doesn't make that one a lesser sub. Most, may find it very difficult to tell the difference between many on the list...remember customer service, finish, quality of components and build.

Other posts show that your point is well taken. People who have listened to the J L Audio F113 and the Velodyne DD-18 in the same room report little difference, yet the DD-18 doesn't get much respect. Craig Chase measured the DD-18 7 db less at 20 Hz, but the difference in the 25-63 Hz average is only 3.5 db different. Also worth noting that these are ground plane measurements that do not reflect room gain.

The differences are at the bubble. When pushed to the limit and asked to reproduce <20 Hz material, that's where the differences lie.

Considering the finish, size, and the bass each provide....The 3.3 is an all around better sub.

cacihome.. is one more easily adjusted than the other? Reading between the lines... are you saying that the ed A7S - 450 has a bad finish, or just inferior to the 3.3?

What finish do you have?
Did you upgrade the amp to 1300?


Does the A7S really weigh 149 lbs????:eek:

IMO, disregarding output, the VTF-3.3 and PB13U sound very similar, each having advantages in certain areas.

Those that like the eD, may like the mid-bass performance....and why they give it the edge. Myself, I would be more interested in transient response and upper bass performance.

Any experience with the Definitive Technology Super Cube 1 (http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Subwoofers&productid=SuperCube%20I). They brag about their transient response.

I've had the DT BP 10s for over 10 years and love them.

No experience with that sub at all....sorry.

Although they didn't test the ed A7S - 450... they gave a very favorable review of the 3.3:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2316/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers-velodyne-dls-5000r-page12.html (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2316/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers-velodyne-dls-5000r-page12.html)

Those that like the eD, may like the mid-bass performance....and why they give it the edge. Myself, I would be more interested in transient response and upper bass performance.

Absolutely. One mans salt is another mans pepper. Sound reproduction is just like our "taste buds" we all will vary on what we find preferable. The amount of systems that friends have raved about yet I found wanting are too numerous.

I have even gone through the placement, setup and level adjustments to help them find a better balance, yet many still prefer the way they originally had them sounding. Its their "money" and their "ears" so who am I too disagree.

Ddavidson

Absolutely. One mans salt is another mans pepper. Sound reproduction is just like our "taste buds" we all will vary on what we find preferable. The amount of systems that friends have raved about yet I found wanting are too numerous.

I have even gone through the placement, setup and level adjustments to help them find a better balance, yet many still prefer the way they originally had them sounding. Its their "money" and their "ears" so who am I too disagree.

Ddavidson

Bummer for me is that the A7S - 450 and 3.3 each cannot be test driven in my house/room. Can't even "see" them in person since they are factory direct. I have reservations ordering and getting into the whole "sending it back" and paying shipping charges etc... that's why I'm trying to get as much info as possible before pulling the trigger. I can always buy the velodyne locally and take it back if not satisfied... not the case with either the A7S - 450 and 3.3. :(

cacihome.. is one more easily adjusted than the other? Reading between the lines... are you saying that the ed A7S - 450 has a bad finish, or just inferior to the 3.3?

What finish do you have?
Did you upgrade the amp to 1300?


Does the A7S really weigh 149 lbs????:eek:

Okay let me put this straight...

My A7s-450 is fine...It does not have air leaking from the driver, nor it does have any problem at all with the vc rubbing nothing...It plays very loud at midbass levels.Period.)It had air leaking, but I glued it...HAHAH
But that is the thing precisely, it does not have any insulation/polyfill/fiberglass whatever you want to call it...The midbass feels very very strong...more like a car's bass...As a result of this, it seems to give the sub itself a little "boxxy sound"...Im not complaining, just telling the differences.
Maybe people that say that it feels "tighter" are talking about its midbass performance which is just more solid or "dry"...
The 3.3 on the other hand, when played under its operational levels, sound very clear and without pipe/tube/box resonance...More like a musical sub...(You know what I mean)

Honestly, the finish on the matte finish on the Ed is bad.
It is the worst subwoofer finish I have had in my house.
The new 3.3 finish is very good...
The 3.3 is more musical than the A7s, in transient response, upperbass response,etc...Only when pushed past its limits the 3.3 exhibits audible sounds...(pipe/port resonance I think...)

Hope this help to clarify my thoughts on both subs folks...

Any experience with the Definitive Technology Super Cube 1 (http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Subwoofers&productid=SuperCube%20I). They brag about their transient response.

I've had the DT BP 10s for over 10 years and love them.

This guy has tested hundreds of subwoofers. This is what he said about the Supercube I.

"The Supercube I subwoofer could deliver about 109 db SPL between 50-63 Hz, but response fell 18 db per octave below 50 Hz, and distortion limited the maximum SPL at 40 Hz to 100 db. Although the crossover dial is labeled as 40 to 150 Hz, true acoustical response was limited to 58 to 119 Hz."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/1222003153710.pdf

Being distortion limited to 100 db at 40 Hz doesn't compare to the HSU 3.3.

I wouldn't want a subwoofer whose maximum output was down by 18 db at 25 Hz.

You may want to look at a list of many of the subs tested by Tom Nousaine. The Def Tech Supercube I is on the list at number 82. Scroll down until you find it.

http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm

Bummer for me is that the A7S - 450 and 3.3 each cannot be test driven in my house/room. Can't even "see" them in person since they are factory direct. I have reservations ordering and getting into the whole "sending it back" and paying shipping charges etc... that's why I'm trying to get as much info as possible before pulling the trigger. I can always buy the velodyne locally and take it back if not satisfied... not the case with either the A7S - 450 and 3.3. :(
Doesn't change the fact that given a chance to compare ..... your opinion may be the polar opposite.

Comparing brands certainly is the one negative for ID direct sales. However for 99.99% of the popular ID brands the price/performance ratio puts the easy to listen to "retail brands" well behind the 8 ball. :o

Trick is to make friends on forums and find someone close to you that might be nice enough to invite you over. :)

Ddavidson

Honestly, the finish on the matte finish on the Ed is bad.
It is the worst subwoofer finish I have had in my house.
The matte finish is the worst you've had? You're not confusing it with Odye finish?

Okay let me put this straight...

My A7s-450 is fine...It does not have air leaking from the driver, nor it does have any problem at all with the vc rubbing nothing...It plays very loud at midbass levels.Period.)It had air leaking, but I glued it...HAHAH
But that is the thing precisely, it does not have any insulation/polyfill/fiberglass whatever you want to call it...The midbass feels very very strong...more like a car's bass...As a result of this, it seems to give the sub itself a little "boxxy sound"...Im not complaining, just telling the differences.
The 3.3 on the other hand, when played under its operational levels, sound very clear and without pipe/tube/box resonance...More like a musical sub...(You know what I mean)

Honestly, the finish on the matte finish on the Ed is bad.
It is the worst subwoofer finish I have had in my house.
The new 3.3 finish is very good...
The 3.3 is more musical than the A7s, in transient response, upperbass response,etc...Only when pushed past its limits the 3.3 exhibits audible sounds...(pipe/port resonance I think...)

Hope this help to clarify my thoughts on both subs folks...

Getting really close to pulling the trigger on the 3.3. Just got off the phone with those guys. It's another $80 to extend the electronics warranty out to a full 5 years. The sub will be mostly hidden behind a sofa... but am now having a hard time justifying the extra $170 for the veneer. :eek: This will peek out a bit and I have brazilian cherry hardwood floors... the Rosenut might look really nice.

The matte finish is the worst you've had? You're not confusing it with Odye finish?

Well...Yeah, the first A7-450 that I got that was damaged was with the regular finish...That for sure was the worst I have seen...

Then I ordered the A7s-450 with LT1300watt amp, for someone that ask previously, with matte finish... The matte finish is an upgrade definately, but it is very far from the 3.3 finish and even farther from my ULS finish...:D

Well...Yeah, the first A7-450 that I got that was damaged was on the regular finish...That for sure was the worst I have seen...

Then I ordered the A7s-450 with LT1300watt amp, for someone that ask previously, with matte finish... The matte finish is an upgrade definately, but it is very far from the 3.3 finish and even farther from my ULS finish...:D

What finish do you have on your uls-15?
Do you have pictures?

Getting really close to pulling the trigger on the 3.3. Just got off the phone with those guys. It's another $80 to extend the electronics warranty out to a full 5 years. The sub will be mostly hidden behind a sofa... but am now having a hard time justifying the extra $170 for the veneer. :eek: This will peek out a bit and I have brazilian cherry hardwood floors... the Rosenut might look really nice.

The new finish on HSU subs is as good as I have seen.The rosenut finish looks exactly the same as Monitor Audio uses as its speakers on its webpage:D.

What finish do you have on your uls-15?
Do you have pictures?

Sorry...
In this computer... no. In my camera...yes. I have the regular black paint...(HSU matte finish).

Well... I ordered the 3.3 yesterday. Went with the satin black finish... couldn't justify the extra $170 for the veneer. Supposed to be here on Tuesday... will post back my opinions after setup and calibration....... and a few intense movies. :D

:DWell... I ordered the 3.3 yesterday. Went with the satin black finish... couldn't justify the extra $170 for the veneer. Supposed to be here on Tuesday... will post back my opinions after setup and calibration....... and a few intense movies. :D

Cool!. I am sure you will like how it sounds.
The finish is very good...(the same that has my ULS)
Let me know...

:D

Cool!. I am sure you will like how it sounds.
The finish is very good...(the same that has my ULS)
Let me know...

You know... I think the 2 deciding factors were the apparent quality and the versatility. Perhaps other vented subs come with plugs... dunno... but it's pretty cool that you have the option with the 3.3 of running it sealed or vented.

I'm sure they BOTH would perform to my satisfaction....

cacihome... I want to thank you personally for taking the time to share your personal experiences with the 2 subs that I narrowed it down to.

You know... I think the 2 deciding factors were the apparent quality and the versatility. Perhaps other vented subs come with plugs... dunno... but it's pretty cool that you have the option with the 3.3 of running it sealed or vented.

I'm sure they BOTH would perform to my satisfaction....

cacihome... I want to thank you personally for taking the time to share your personal experiences with the 2 subs that I narrowed it down to.


Wow...cool.
Sure no problem.
Thank me if you like it...hahahahah


Ehhh, One thing the 3.3 should not be played sealed...It has two ports.
Each one provides different tuning configurations...One gives you more extension(with 1 port blocked and with switch in the 16hz setting), the other more output(with the opposite)...

Wow...cool.
Sure no problem.
Thank me if you like it...hahahahah


Ehhh, One thing the 3.3 cannot be played vented...It has two ports.
Each one provides different tuning configurations...

Well... I guess what I meant was that it is more versatile where you have control over plugging one port or leaving them both open. After talking with hsu... they say for maximum output... leave both plugs out.

You can run the 3.3 sealed, it just does not have a eq setting for it.

You can run the 3.3 sealed, it just does not have a eq setting for it.

Yep. But It wouldn't make much sense...

And sorry i meant that the 3.3 cannot be played sealed, not vented as I posted...silly mistake...:D

After talking to the guy at hsu... he commented that if BOTH ports were plugged, it probably wouldn't sound very good. At first, I thought these ports were allowed to BOTH be plugged. I have a huge room... so will probably leave the BOTH open.

I've got two 3.3's running in MO and two MBM's running with the mains on LFE. I have toyed with the idea of going with another set of subs and dumping the HSU's but when I play Gung Fu Panda, the sckoosh scene and hit 107 db at my seat I change my mind. My room is over 6000 cu feet and I don't think that I could find another set of subs that could deliver that.

Bill

I have had a VTF-3.3 Turbo for 5 months and love it. My listening room is sonically challenging, it is 25 x 25 x 9.5 and has a wide hall at the rear of the room, which opens into a longer hall, dining room, and living room, which are cavernous. Nevertheless, my 3.3 Turbo in a nearfield location has provided thrilling results, mostly on BD movies but I have used it for music, too. Although I can't contribute anything substantive about the A7S-450, it would have to be very good indeed to be better than the 3.3 Turbo has been in my setup.

neither is going to do much good in a room that size. if you can't build your own, i'd go for the eD or wait till their ported version comes out.

i currently have two ufw-12's and one VTF3-HO. my room is approx. 3500 cubic feet and my bass is nice, but not enough.

I guess to each his own... but I received the 3.3 today, ran Audyssey and am very impressed with the performance (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15668925&postcount=10493)... the sub is frickin' HUGE, and beautiful!

Nice.

Nice.

Special thanks to you cacihome! LOVE the sub!

One funny story... after watching the Dark Knight all the way through... I went into the hall bathroom and found a candle (including the decorative glass hurricane it was sitting in) laying in the sink! :eek: It was sitting on a very smooth glass shelf above the sink... luckily nothing was broken... but it cracked me up! :p

Special thanks to you cacihome! LOVE the sub!

One funny story... after watching the Dark Knight all the way through... I went into the hall bathroom and found a candle (including the decorative glass hurricane it was sitting in) laying in the sink! :eek: It was sitting on a very smooth glass shelf above the sink... luckily nothing was broken... but it cracked me up! :p
:D Congratulations. Honestly you would have been happy with any id subwoofer in your price range. Glad your enjoying your 3.3.:D How do you have it setup in your huge room?:eek: Did you calibrate it with a spl meter or did u do it by ear; although if you didn't calibrate with a spl meter its ok as long as your happy with the sound. :D

:D Congratulations. Honestly you would have been happy with any id subwoofer in your price range. Glad your enjoying your 3.3.:D How do you have it setup in your huge room?:eek: Did you calibrate it with a spl meter or did u do it by ear; although if you didn't calibrate with a spl meter its ok as long as your happy with the sound. :D

I'm powering it with a new Onkyo TX-SR706 that I am still getting to know. I have the sub sitting in the corner about 7 feet left of the TV and about 14 feet from the normal listening position. I ran Audyssey to set the 5.1 speaker distances and dbs, but tweaked the speaker Hz as follows:
Fronts (Definitive Technology BP 10s): 60 Hz
Center: 80 Hz
Rears: 80 Hz
Sub: 120 Hz
Set Double Bass to OFF

I have the sub running at about 11:00......... it all just sounds INCREDIBLE!