I was listening to Burn on the NIN Blu-ray at a reasonable volume and about 1 minute into the song a synthesizer rips a deep pulse of bass. Of course I had to rewind it and CRANK the volume to hear it again but this time the bass was gone. I can only hear it when I'm right on top of the sub. The amp on the back of the sub was quite hot as well. It only happens above -20dB on my Integra 9.8. Below that level it rocks. My current sub is a Velodyne FSR-15 and has been great on everything up until this. I bought it used about 10 years ago and I think it's time to move it to another room and get something new. I'm curious to know if anyone else has this disc and can try it out on their system at a high volume and let me know if the sound disappears. I spoke to Curt at Velodyne and he said my sub is not capable of handling the high demand of the new audio codecs and this just proves it. So here is my new sub criteria:
1. Budget- $1600-1800
2. Size requirements- none
3. Room size- 1800(current)-3000(new house)^3 ft
4. Primary use- 60% HT/ 40% music
5. Listening habits- not overpowering but I want to notice the same things at high volumes as well as low volumes only louder.
6. Appearance requirements- none (black box is fine)
7. Timeframe- no rush

I did some sifting through the other threads and came up with the following list:
Epik Conquest, HSU ULS-15, Velodyne DD-15, Def. Tech. Supercube Reference and SVS PB13 Ultra.

I realize that some of you may be thinking "Great...another recommendation thread...just what we needed." but if any dealers in my area (Hudson Valley, NY) carried any of these, I would not ask. This a great forum and has been a huge help in my whole upgrade process. I look forward to a knowledgeable and fun discussion. Thanks.

Seems to me that the Epik line has an edge on the competition when considering the price vs performance comparison.

The Conquest and even the Tower have piqued my interest.

Thanks yosh...

anyone else?

The new audio codecs don't require material to be louder, so I am wonder what is meant by "high demand".

The new codecs offer higher resolution and quality.

Well, Epik isn't selling anything right now. Don't know when they will.

Elemental Designs (eD) would be someone I'd call or drop a line to. Tell them what you're trying to do. Look at the MFW15 from AV123. I just ordered one of those. Less than you want to spend. But, for that price range, you could get two or three of them. THAT would kick. SVS was very helpful, even though I didn't buy from them.

i would go for the epik conquest...someone else said they werent selling any right now but i was able to put one in the cart and it didnt say backordered or anything to that degree...but thats definately my first choice...2nd choice would be the SVS PB13 ultra...third would be dual ULS 15's even though they are slightly out of your listed budget...also might wanna look at elemental designs subs as well.

The new audio codecs don't require material to be louder, so I am wonder what is meant by "high demand".

The new codecs offer higher resolution and quality.
I think what he meant was that the 250w amp of the FSR would be pushed past its limit on a more regular basis and at higher volumes will not perform nearly as well as a DD series. I've noticed with the new codecs that my sub is more active and working harder but this concert was its breaking point.
i would go for the epik conquest...someone else said they werent selling any right now but i was able to put one in the cart and it didnt say backordered or anything to that degree...but thats definately my first choice...2nd choice would be the SVS PB13 ultra...third would be dual ULS 15's even though they are slightly out of your listed budget...also might wanna look at elemental designs subs as well.
Initially I was going to go with the Epik conquest but I read a few posts about concerns with their customer support. Any opinions or experience with that? I am of the mindset that there is "no replacement for displacement" but I also know that linear excursion plays a roll as well. That is when I started looking at the SVS PB13 Ultra and reading rave reviews. I don't think I would be disappointed with either of these choices. When we move to our new house I will definately entertain the thought of an additional sub. I will also look into the ED thread.
Thanks for the help guys and keep the comments coming :).

Have listened to NIN's DVD of the Fragility tour and the opening sequence bass on my Tower was ridiculous. So powerful. Just waves of bass pulsing through the room. I highly recommend the Epik products. The SVS PB13 would be my second choice next to the Conquest. For the price, performance, and size aspects the Epik line is extremely hard to beat.

What about Elemental Designs A7-700? I read somewhere that it outperforms even the Epik Conquest simply because it is using two drivers instead of one.

The Conquest is avaliable right now. Depends on where you're living from Chicago, shipping will drive the cost up. If you want great support down the line, great looks (choice of finish) and performance....SVS PB13 Ultra.

If you bought the Velodyne and have had it for ten years...why wouldnt you stick with them? Just seems to me that if I owned something for a long ammount of time and it has work perfectly for me, when it came time to upgrade I'd probably buy the latest version or its newer/bigger brother. Then again I get all exctied when I even type the word Velodyne. Oh...there it is again. :p

If you bought the Velodyne and have had it for ten years...why wouldnt you stick with them? Just seems to me that if I owned something for a long ammount of time and it has work perfectly for me, when it came time to upgrade I'd probably buy the latest version or its newer/bigger brother. Then again I get all exctied when I even type the word Velodyne. Oh...there it is again. :p

It is generally accepted that from the Internet brands you can get similar performance to the top of the line Velodyne for about 1/3 the price. Most of us just prefer to spend less for the same or better performance.

If you bought the Velodyne and have had it for ten years...why wouldnt you stick with them? Just seems to me that if I owned something for a long ammount of time and it has work perfectly for me, when it came time to upgrade I'd probably buy the latest version or its newer/bigger brother. Then again I get all exctied when I even type the word Velodyne. Oh...there it is again. :p

Much has changed in ten years. Ten years ago there were no internet-only brands and Velodyne was king of the hill. It's a different world today.

It is generally accepted that from the Internet brands you can get similar performance to the top of the line Velodyne for about 1/3 the price. Most of us just prefer to spend less for the same or better performance.

Much has changed in ten years. Ten years ago there were no internet-only brands and Velodyne was king of the hill. It's a different world today.

I was thinking the exact same thing guys. After doing some research on the price, it happens to fall out of my range. The only reason I put it on the list was because I wanted to stay brand loyal but if I can get the same or better performance and save $600...there is my answer.
I've also been having second thoughts about the Conquest. Man is that thing big and heavy. Moving it around for proper placement is going to be a PIA. Not that the Pb-13 is much better but it weighs 50 pounds less than the Conquest and performs almost as well from what I've read. They are also offering free shipping and their customer service is excellent too. I may have found my answer. What does everyone think???

Have listened to NIN's DVD of the Fragility tour and the opening sequence bass on my Tower was ridiculous. So powerful. Just waves of bass pulsing through the room. I highly recommend the Epik products. The SVS PB13 would be my second choice next to the Conquest. For the price, performance, and size aspects the Epik line is extremely hard to beat.

Has anyone listened to the Beside you in time Blu-ray? If so please crank the song Burn and see if you can hear what I'm talking about. If you can't hear what I mean then please tell what sub(s) you're using and at what volume. :)

Take a look at 2 F15 from Ascend/Rhythmic. These are similar to the ULS15 and in your price range. The F15 has a Slightly different finish and no wireless option. But if customer service and good value are in your considerations these are nice options. Vandy

Has anyone listened to the Beside you in time Blu-ray? If so please crank the song Burn and see if you can hear what I'm talking about. If you can't hear what I mean then please tell what sub(s) you're using and at what volume. :)

I have this on Blu-ray and specifically remember the note you're talking about (I listened to the song a couple extra times just for that note). Sounds pretty good at reference level (with the subs 7db hot) :D

Running 4 DIY subs using the 12" driver eD uses in their A2-300 (13Kv.2), each in 50L sealed pushed by an EP2500.

I was thinking the exact same thing guys. After doing some research on the price, it happens to fall out of my range. The only reason I put it on the list was because I wanted to stay brand loyal but if I can get the same or better performance and save $600...there is my answer.
I've also been having second thoughts about the Conquest. Man is that thing big and heavy. Moving it around for proper placement is going to be a PIA. Not that the Pb-13 is much better but it weighs 50 pounds less than the Conquest and performs almost as well from what I've read. They are also offering free shipping and their customer service is excellent too. I may have found my answer. What does everyone think???

I have heard from various people that the Conquest isn't so bad to move around, especially on carpet because it has a very smooth finish and should just slide. Besides once you find the right spot for your subwoofer you will never move it. I'm not sure portability is a factor for most, but maybe for you it will be.

Regarding the driver the PB13 Ultra uses a 13" driver and the Conquest uses an 18" giving it considerably more output at 20hz (logarithmically double the output) and even lower it will significantly outperform the PB13 Ultra. This low bass will only be useful for movies and pipe organ so it all depends on how your priorities align. The Conquest has output you can feel down to 10-13hz. Not sure on the PB13 but I'd imagine given the 5" driver size it surrenders it cannot match the Conquest down low.

So you have a few things to consider. The Conquest will ultimately give you the most output of the 2, but you'll have to pay for shipping on the Conquest driving its price slightly above the PB13. Personally I think that it is worth it, and will provide you with the best chance not to get upgrade-itis :D

Either way though both companies make a superb product, I'm just swayed by the extra performance that the Epik product yields which for me is why I ended up choosing Epik in the end.

-Chad

It is generally accepted that from the Internet brands you can get similar performance to the top of the line Velodyne for about 1/3 the price. Most of us just prefer to spend less for the same or better performance.

That is a valid point. I'm very new to the online audio thing. My dad has been in the A/V industry for over 30 years so I'm used to getting stuff through him and getting CRAZY deals on stuff. Also I've been under years of hearing about the science of what companies do to make thier products so never really put much faith in DIY items. On the other hand I definatly know about internet pro audio and motorcycle gear if anyone needs info about that. :p

I've got a Sunfire True Signature sub with a 2700 watt amp that seems to handle anything I throw at it with not sign of running out of steam. I have the NIN Blu Ray and it rocks baby. I love it. I bought it on Audiogon almost new for about a grand.