hi group. i have been using a crt sony 27 for years and want to bump to a nice flat panel around 50 inches or so. I have been researching and found that the elite 50 inch is a very great plasma tv. I also see how popular the lcds are and how my friends enjoy their lcds. Since i have never owned either of the two, I am trying to figure out which style of tv i will enjoy more. I have read many magazines and websites so i know about room lighting, etc.. I can see the rich detail in the 50 inch Elite but noticed that the picture looks more normal than the brighter Lcds. I looked on my crt at home and noticed that i favor high brightness. even though i appreciate and WANT to buy the elite, i am a little concerned that it won't have the brightness that i may want on some content. I will use the tv for movies, television, pc, games, basically everything. it won't be in a controlled movie environment unless it turn all lights off in my living room to watch a movie in the dark, which isn't that often. knowing what you know, should i get the elite 50 inch or focus my energy to buy a nice 52 inch LCD, like the XBR9 coming in a couple months/

I don't know too much about the XBR9 but going by past Sony pricing, it will be pretty steep above what you would pay for the 50 inch elite.

I'm not an owner of the Pioneer 111FD or 151FD but I have read enough posts and done enough research to speak on its behalf haha. According to some on here, their ISF day mode can reach 40 - 50ftl which should be plenty bright compared to your CRT. I own the Panny 58pz850, currently not calibrated, which doesn't put out near as much light as the the elites ISF day mode and I'm still satisfied with the picture during daytime lighting conditions.

Pioneer

hi group. i have been using a crt sony 27 for years and want to bump to a nice flat panel around 50 inches or so. I have been researching and found that the elite 50 inch is a very great plasma tv. I also see how popular the lcds are and how my friends enjoy their lcds. Since i have never owned either of the two, I am trying to figure out which style of tv i will enjoy more. I have read many magazines and websites so i know about room lighting, etc.. I can see the rich detail in the 50 inch Elite but noticed that the picture looks more normal than the brighter Lcds. I looked on my crt at home and noticed that i favor high brightness. even though i appreciate and WANT to buy the elite, i am a little concerned that it won't have the brightness that i may want on some content. I will use the tv for movies, television, pc, games, basically everything. it won't be in a controlled movie environment unless it turn all lights off in my living room to watch a movie in the dark, which isn't that often. knowing what you know, should i get the elite 50 inch or focus my energy to buy a nice 52 inch LCD, like the XBR9 coming in a couple months/

XBR9? When is that coming out?

XBR9? When is that coming out?

I don't believe it has been officially anounced, but the 40"+ XBR9 sets should be released around the same time Sony starts shipping XBRs each year (September/October).

I don't believe it has been officially anounced, but the 40"+ XBR9 sets should be released around the same time Sony starts shipping XBRs each year (September/October).

Exactly. When you said "a couple months" I thought you meant March. Just remember the way Sony names their TV's, the 9 could be the lowest model and the 11 or 12 could be their top of the line models. So, my advice is this. Whenever your ready to buy a TV just do it. If you wait till later this summer, your then going to hear about the new TV's coming in the Spring. It's a never ending CRAZY cycle. It is this reason why I buy a DAMN TV once a year.

I'd go with the xbr9 it should be around 3000for the 52. Gonna be halogen lit not led so it will be cheaper then the xbr8 and should be a better bang for your buck when all is said and done. Gonna have cool internet features, great color plus 240hrtz which the plasma doesn't have. The black levels might not be as good as the elite but I think the brightness and better whites will more
then make up for it in the end. Also I think release date is may

Kuros do not require watching in the dark. Quite the opposite. I watch with lights on or natural light always. The Elite is the best consumer display available.

I researched plasma vs lcd for about 2 years. The price on the Elites came down into the Samsung/Sony lcd range recently. I, too was concerned about the brightness of the plasma since I have 3 large windows in the family room. I bought the Elite not only due to the price, but it seemed like a lot of people had problems and needed to return their lcd's, where the Pioneer plasmas did not have many negative reviews. I also watch a lot of sports and was concerned about motion blur. Well, I am totally blown away by my Kuro. The picture looks great even in the daylight. The picture is crisp and clear, the colors are vivid and accurate. The screen has a lot less glare and reflection than the RPTV this plasma replaced. I have not done any break-in, I am just watching and enjoying my TV. My RPTV had a logo and the letterbox bars burned in, which also made me nervous about plasma, but so far there is no sign of IR or burn-in. The screen is perfect, no bad pixels that I can see. I am glad I made the choice I did!

Aren't the XBR9s the replacement for the XBR6s and not the 8s?

hi group. i have been using a crt sony 27 for years and want to bump to a nice flat panel around 50 inches or so. I have been researching and found that the elite 50 inch is a very great plasma tv. I also see how popular the lcds are and how my friends enjoy their lcds. Since i have never owned either of the two, I am trying to figure out which style of tv i will enjoy more. I have read many magazines and websites so i know about room lighting, etc.. I can see the rich detail in the 50 inch Elite but noticed that the picture looks more normal than the brighter Lcds. I looked on my crt at home and noticed that i favor high brightness. even though i appreciate and WANT to buy the elite, i am a little concerned that it won't have the brightness that i may want on some content. I will use the tv for movies, television, pc, games, basically everything. it won't be in a controlled movie environment unless it turn all lights off in my living room to watch a movie in the dark, which isn't that often. knowing what you know, should i get the elite 50 inch or focus my energy to buy a nice 52 inch LCD, like the XBR9 coming in a couple months/

And you should be concerned.

This is a bad time to be buying. I bought a 52" LCD 6 months ago and it was because I needed something bigger. I suggest you do the same, buy something that will get you by for now and a good price.

I saw where you could buy a Sammie 52" for very cheap a week ago. Buy LCD it is much more versatile than plasma, IMO plasma is way more flawed than LCD. Then in 5 years or when the TV world improves then get a SED or OLED or whatever the new techs are.

And if you already have a HDTV just wait it out.

Buy LCD it is much more versatile than plasma, IMO plasma is way more flawed than LCD.

And this is based on??? Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing, just curious what you base this on.

Aren't the XBR9s the replacement for the XBR6s and not the 8s?

That is what I thought also. a jacked up xbr6 with 240 hz, but an 8 bit panel, and a few other nice to have expensive things taken off it for cheaper msrp, or more margin in it at least.

And you should be concerned.

This is a bad time to be buying. I bought a 52" LCD 6 months ago and it was because I needed something bigger. I suggest you do the same, buy something that will get you by for now and a good price.

I saw where you could buy a Sammie 52" for very cheap a week ago. Buy LCD it is much more versatile than plasma, IMO plasma is way more flawed than LCD. Then in 5 years or when the TV world improves then get a SED or OLED or whatever the new techs are.

And if you already have a HDTV just wait it out.

I'd go with the xbr9 it should be around 3000for the 52. Gonna be halogen lit not led so it will be cheaper then the xbr8 and should be a better bang for your buck when all is said and done. Gonna have cool internet features, great color plus 240hrtz which the plasma doesn't have. The black levels might not be as good as the elite but I think the brightness and better whites will more
then make up for it in the end. Also I think release date is may

what flaws does plasma have? motion blur,off axis viewing problems,flashlighting issues? oh wait thats LCD

no plasma does not have 240Hz it has 600Hz

what flaws does plasma have? motion blur,off axis viewing problems,flashlighting issues? oh wait thats LCD


Plasma flaws? How about low-color dither, low brightness, IR, green trails, more prone to burn-in, glare, washing out in lit rooms, high power consumption and heat.

Plasma flaws? How about low-color dither, low brightness, IR, green trails, more prone to burn-in, glare, washing out in lit rooms, high power consumption and heat.

You speak exactly like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

You speak exactly like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

I had a pana pz80u and the dithering was too much for me to handle. IR did happen, and i just didn't like not having interpolation. There are cons with LCDs too, but i enjoy my a650 more than the panny. Just my opinion:cool:

You speak exactly like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

You speak exactly like a plasma fanboi who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Here's my dim, washed-out plasma with all the lights on, the windows open, and lots of sun beaming in:




http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/tbird8450/Day1.jpg




http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/tbird8450/Bird.jpg




http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/tbird8450/Day.jpg




http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/tbird8450/Snow2.jpg




Oh yeah, I've never seen IR, green trails or dithering at my viewing distance, either.

It's a fact plasma is dither prone. Same with false contouring. Although pioneer does a great job eliminating it with heavy processing. There is still traces of dither if you really study hard. The best brands do eliminate it well. Plasma rainbow effect is another flaw. Brightness levels, white levels, is much better and more accurate than lcd. The most perfect display is still a crt monitor.

It's a fact plasma is dither prone. Same with false contouring. Although pioneer does a great job eliminating it with heavy processing. There is still traces of dither if you really study hard.
Heavy processing?
the majority of Kuro owners use pure mode. Which has very very litle processing. speak of something you know about.


Plasma rainbow effect is another flaw.
lol. let me guess, you just happen to be in the 1-2% of people whos vision allows them to see these rainbows.lol.



Brightness levels, white levels, is much better and more accurate than lcd. The most perfect display is still a crt monitor.
I know! lets get an LCD and put it torch mode and crank up the backlight and brightness!! lol.
If you had a clue about what top notch plasmas were capable of you would not base your assumptions on a 5 secord best-buy-drive-by.

Cmon chad, TONS of plasmas have reviews by cnet and MANY of them say in the reviews "some false contouring" So what does pioneer do to eliminate it if it's not heavy processing? Is it magic? Or ''pure mode" LOL.. Have a clue..The other modes don't have false contouring either. As far as rainbows who cares if you see it. From your 4feet viewing distance it's probably harder.

.
If you had a clue about what top notch plasmas were capable of you would not base your assumptions on a 5 secord best-buy-drive-by.

I know more about your tv than you ever will :)

...The most perfect display is still a crt monitor.

Not at all. All CRT's have very serious issues with misconvergence and defocussing. No CRT can maintain pixel perfect focus over the entire screen, especially in the sides and corners. And all color CRT's show some easily visible misconvergence (color fringing) somewhere on the screen. All of this holds true for multi-tube projectors as well as direct-view CRT's. These problems don't even exist in either plasmas or LCD's! The only area where CRT's have excelled is in having the blackest blacks and best gray scale. And now the KURO's have largely closed that gap as well. My advice to anyone who wants the very best possible performance is to get a KURO.

The only area where CRT's have excelled is in having the blackest blacks and best gray scale.


You also left out void of any dithering, superior motion, no pixel break up, no clipping whites, no rainbow effect, superior color accuracy, less noise of any tech, no dancing pixels.

If you dumbed down a kuro into a 19inch computer monitor the crt would beat it. A 60in kuro is the closest to having a 60in tube tv. Rear projection crt is like having a movie theater in your house with a film quality look. Sure it won't hang with a kuro for that tube tv look, but in many ways it does things better.

hi group. i have been using a crt sony 27 for years and want to bump to a nice flat panel around 50 inches or so. I have been researching and found that the elite 50 inch is a very great plasma tv. I also see how popular the lcds are and how my friends enjoy their lcds. Since i have never owned either of the two, I am trying to figure out which style of tv i will enjoy more. I have read many magazines and websites so i know about room lighting, etc.. I can see the rich detail in the 50 inch Elite but noticed that the picture looks more normal than the brighter Lcds. I looked on my crt at home and noticed that i favor high brightness. even though i appreciate and WANT to buy the elite, i am a little concerned that it won't have the brightness that i may want on some content. I will use the tv for movies, television, pc, games, basically everything. it won't be in a controlled movie environment unless it turn all lights off in my living room to watch a movie in the dark, which isn't that often. knowing what you know, should i get the elite 50 inch or focus my energy to buy a nice 52 inch LCD, like the XBR9 coming in a couple months/

I would get the pioneer.... To me, you cannot beat a pioneer elite plasma.. I have 2, a 42 inch and a 50 inch. They are incredible TV's, others may not agree, but to me, they are the one to get. Good luck to you.

You also left out void of any dithering, superior motion, no pixel break up, no clipping whites, no rainbow effect, superior color accuracy, less noise of any tech, no dancing pixels..

I have both a 60" KURO and a Sony LCD and I have never observed any of these effects on either one. They are completely negligible on modern displays where they exist at all.

.If you dumbed down a kuro into a 19inch computer monitor the crt would beat it. A 60in kuro is the closest to having a 60in tube tv. Rear projection crt is like having a movie theater in your house with a film quality look. Sure it won't hang with a kuro for that tube tv look, but in many ways it does things better.

I have a high end 20" Nanao/Eizo computer display, and it doesn't even come close to my 24" Samsung LCD monitor. All of the shortcomings of CRT's are painfully obvious in any comparison. Sure, it has great blacks, but it doesn't even begin to make up for the shorcomings of CRT's.

Rear projection is the worst possible technology around today, and most manufacturers have already abandoned it. RPTV's are vastly inferior even to most LCD's today in terms of directionality; there is only a very small "sweet spot" in the center where the image can be viewed clearly. Even slightly to either side, brightness drops off precipitously. Even worse, one must sit very far away, otherwise he sees a bright spot in the center and a very dim picture toward the edges and corners. (At least that would mitigate the effect of the misconvergence and defocussing, which, even at best, are substantial!) The only way to minimize this would be to sit very far back and that defeats the whole purpose of the large picture! In addition, to get 1920 x 1080 resolution with projection CRT's you will need 9" CRT's which are costly. Even a small cheap 32" or 37" 1080p LCD would look better in such applications.

Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against projection TV, but it should be a front projection system. The projectors are very small, and can use huge screens. Of course, you will need a darker room, but it will have none of the disadvantages of RPTV's. Also, with an SXRD, D-ILA or DLP projector, the picture will be brighter than with CRT's and there will be no misconvergence or defocussing, except for what little the projection lens might introduce.

I would get the pioneer.... To me, you cannot beat a pioneer elite plasma.. I have 2, a 42 inch and a 50 inch. They are incredible TV's, others may not agree, but to me, they are the one to get. Good luck to you.

+1. I have just one, a 60" Elite, and I agree!

hi group. i have been using a crt sony 27 for years and want to bump to a nice flat panel around 50 inches or so. I have been researching and found that the elite 50 inch is a very great plasma tv. I also see how popular the lcds are and how my friends enjoy their lcds. Since i have never owned either of the two, I am trying to figure out which style of tv i will enjoy more. I have read many magazines and websites so i know about room lighting, etc.. I can see the rich detail in the 50 inch Elite but noticed that the picture looks more normal than the brighter Lcds. I looked on my crt at home and noticed that i favor high brightness. even though i appreciate and WANT to buy the elite, i am a little concerned that it won't have the brightness that i may want on some content. I will use the tv for movies, television, pc, games, basically everything. it won't be in a controlled movie environment unless it turn all lights off in my living room to watch a movie in the dark, which isn't that often. knowing what you know, should i get the elite 50 inch or focus my energy to buy a nice 52 inch LCD, like the XBR9 coming in a couple months/

From your description of what you are looking for in a display, I would advise you to get the 50" Elite (actually, I would really advise you to get the 60" 141/151 since the prices appear to have dipped into the sub-$4500 range, and most likely even go further below). The plasma will provide you with the closest image to your CRT and can be made very bright with activation of ISFccc with a $25 purchase of ControlCAL from Turbe. If not, I would get the Sony 55" XBR8. I own a 60" Elite 151 and my friend owns a 55" XBR8, both produce an outstanding picture that currently cannot be duplicated by other sets.

As mentioned before, the XBR9 is a rebadged XBR6, not an upgrade of the XBR8. Sony appears to be making a habit of this (not terribly surprising in our current economic woes) such as the 70" XBR7 which has more similarities of the XBR6s than its own smaller sized XBR7s, so do not be fooled into the numbers of the XBR series. Cnet has shown 240 Hz to not reliably produce a better picture than 120 Hz, so there is no reason to pay the extra money for it until (or more accurately, if) it results in improved performance. It's virtually the same argument as the 720p vs 1080p in <40" sets at distances >10' were, it's nothing more than an expensive, marketing ploy. Hope this helps!