I would like your opinions as to whether or not the Anti-Mode 8033 would help me. Also, would it be something I would obviously notice in my case. These were taken at my listening position with an analog Rat Shack meter, corrected and at calibrated reference level. Subwoofer HSU 3.3 in maximum output. Listening position 12 feet away.

16hz = 82.5
18hz = 88
20hz = 96.5
22hz = 102.5
25hz = 109
28hz = 110
31.5hz = 114
36hz = 106.5
40hz = 106.5
45hz = 104
50hz = 99.5
56hz = 101.5
63hz = 97.5
71hz = 98.5
80hz = 95.5
89hz = 83.5
100hz = 73

Thanks

Is this with or without a crossover invoked on the receiver or sub? Probably with it on the receiver? Were your speakers "on" too?

Is this with or without a crossover invoked on the receiver or sub?

Sorry, crossover set to 80hz on my receiver

The Anti-node can certainly help to smooth out out your response and take down those peaks, but you're going to need some other kind of help in the lower range of your main speakers assuming the chart reflects the response with them playing as well.

Mike's right....were the speakers playing as well? It doesn't look like it.

Mike's right....were the speakers playing as well? It doesn't look like it.

No, just the HSU. The other speakers were turned off.

It actually seems pretty nice then......if we could all be so lucky.

Like Mike says, the Anti-Mode can smooth things out for you, the response doesn't look bad at all, but an EQ will make a noticeable difference.

Nothing unusual about that so you have few peaks and dips in the room get Behringer BFQ2496 to iron out the peaks and raise the shields I mean raise the level a bit.:D

Nothing unusual about that so you have few peaks and dips in the room get Behringer BFQ2496 to iron out the peaks and raise the shields I mean raise the level a bit.:D

The Behringer is to much like work! The anti-mode is right up my alley :)

Count yourself lucky. In my opinion, you don't need any EQ. Look at my room,. This is with no stand-alone sub, but with two "powered bass/stands" from AV123 (essentially small subs).

It actually seems pretty nice then......if we could all be so lucky.

Like Mike says, the Anti-Mode can smooth things out for you, the response doesn't look bad at all, but an EQ will make a noticeable difference.

Thanks Curtis, I did think the numbers were that nice, but its good to know. Will the Anti-mode allow for raising the dips a bit? Or will some of the dips raise a bit automatically when the peaks smooth out?

Count yourself lucky. In my opinion, you don't need any EQ. Look at my room,. This is with no stand-alone sub, but with two "powered bass/stands" from AV123 (essentially small subs).

WOW! I would hate to ski down those hills :D

The Behringer is to much like work! The anti-mode is right up my alley :)

Oh, sorry to enforce it on you I’d buy more BFQ2496 if I had a few bob more not too bad now that I’ve had hands on time with it. It was pigs ear at first to work around since its design was never intended for home cinema parametric EQ of sub bass speakers, its worked out quite well for the price.

Anyway if the (anti-mode) does the same approach go for it.;)

I’d make lousy door to door salesmen. (Do you what to buy a vacuum cleaner the special of the week is £59.99 but I’m not going to do that).:D

WOW! I would hate to ski down those hills :D

(I’m skiing down the slopes)
Hey you! watch out for peak 45Hz = 110db!

Yikes BANG! Aggghhhh!

:D

Count yourself lucky. In my opinion, you don't need any EQ. Look at my room,. This is with no stand-alone sub, but with two "powered bass/stands" from AV123 (essentially small subs).
That is because the area that is good for speakers/imaging is usually not good for bass.

If you got a sub and placed it in the proper area, you would have better response. Also, it looks like the bass is too hot.

Here is your graph, old-school style, SPL-corrected, Gov. You're measuring at too high an SPL, btw.


**** FIXED ****

Here is your graph, old-school style, SPL-corrected, Gov. You're measuring at too high an SPL, btw.



Gov stated that his numbers were corrected, but the graph is a nice gesture ;).

Gov stated that his numbers were corrected, but the graph is a nice gesture ;).Ooops. :o

/scurries off to regraph


**** FIXED ****


http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/gov 3.3.jpg

That is because the area that is good for speakers/imaging is usually not good for bass.

If you got a sub and placed it in the proper area, you would have better response. Also, it looks like the bass is too hot.

Thanks for the input!

The levels are only turned up about 1/2 way and it does not sound like too much bass.

I'm actually looking for a sub right now for this system. Then I might just run the LRS (bookshelves) with their PBS (mini-sub) as "small" and be done with it. The PBS have crossovers just like normal powered subs and I'm crossing them over right now at 80Hz. They have an internal 31Hz high-pass.

Specs here:
http://**********/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,140/category_id,50/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

You are right, though. I'm stuck with that response with these guys, since I can't move them from their right/left positions.

Ooops. :o

/scurries off to regraph


**** FIXED ****


http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/gov 3.3.jpg


Thanks!! That is awesome! I think that looks pretty good for no EQ.

So basically I have two peaks then. A decent one at 31.5hz and a small one at 56hz.

I am not sure if this will help anyone, but I have always found it interesting and useful. The graph below shows the equal loudness curves. It basically explains that different frequencies will be perceived as louder than others at a given dB level. Or another way of saying it is that you need 95dB at 30Hz to sound as loud as 70dB at 1000Hz sounds.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/c/cd/Isophones.JPG

For a decent explanation, check this link also: Equal Loudness Curve Explanation (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/Sound/eqloud.html)

That one at 56hz is nothing.....very minor.

But bring down that one at 31.5hz with a wide cut and you will be in good shape.

Would be interesting to see what the FR looks like with REW.

Would be interesting to see what the FR looks like with REW.Yeah. I think that it would be more relevant.

That one at 56hz is nothing.....very minor.

But bring down that one at 31.5hz with a wide cut and you will be in good shape.

Would be interesting to see what the FR looks like with REW.

If the OP is only going to bring down the peak at 31.5 Hz wouldn't he be a good candidate for the Ed Eq2?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657

For $100 it would seem that it would have no problem taming that peak.

forgive the noob question please, but why EQ with an appliance over the processor/receiver internal EQ (if present)?

Here are the "max extension-one port plugged" numbers, all else the same as with max output:

16hz = 104.5
18hz = 104
20hz = 101.5
22hz = 101.5
25hz = 106
28hz = 107
31.5hz = 111
36hz = 103
40hz = 104.5
45hz = 101
50hz = 98.5
56hz = 99.5
63hz = 96.5
71hz = 98.5
80hz = 94.5
89hz = 82.5
100hz = 72

This seems flatter I would say. What do you think?

Gov...turn that sub down playing tones like that. Have you smelled anything yet?

Sine waves at high levels will melt the epoxy on the driver.

Play your 50Hz tone and adjust the master volume to 75 or so db and go from there.

forgive the noob question please, but why EQ with an appliance over the processor/receiver internal EQ (if present)?Because, depending upon the appliance, it MAY have more capabilities and options.

Thanks Curtis, I did think the numbers were that nice, but its good to know. Will the Anti-mode allow for raising the dips a bit? Or will some of the dips raise a bit automatically when the peaks smooth out?

You don't actually raise the dips as these are caused by physical attributes of the speaker and room. The goal is to lower the peaks to smooth things out. I agree with the others that most would like to have such a response.

Here are the "max extension-one port plugged" numbers, all else the same as with max output:

16hz = 104.5
18hz = 104
20hz = 101.5
22hz = 101.5
25hz = 106
28hz = 107
31.5hz = 111
36hz = 103
40hz = 104.5
45hz = 101
50hz = 98.5
56hz = 99.5
63hz = 96.5
71hz = 98.5
80hz = 94.5
89hz = 82.5
100hz = 72

This seems flatter I would say. What do you think?


Looks better, but you still have the peak at 31.5 Hz.

This might be all you need at $100.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657&osCsid=97d0d80ab1f410a75158dfeaf0839ed1

Gov...turn that sub down playing tones like that. Have you smelled anything yet?

Sine waves at high levels will melt the epoxy on the driver.

Play your 50Hz tone and adjust the master volume to 75 or so db and go from there.

Do you really think I was playing it that loud!!! LOL!! :D My numbers involved some math and it was actually played at much less SPLS

Looks better, but you still have the peak at 31.5 Hz.

This might be all you need at $100.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657&osCsid=97d0d80ab1f410a75158dfeaf0839ed1

I will look into this. Is it more user friendly to lazy tweakers like me?

I will look into this. Is it more user friendly to lazy tweakers like me?
You still have measure and re-measure after you tweak.

Do you really think I was playing it that loud!!! LOL!! :D My numbers involved some math and it was actually played at much less SPLS
What kind of math?

What kind of math?

I made sure that 0db MV was reference level after I used MCACC set up on my SC-05 receiver. I played each tone at -20db MV. With that reading I then added the proper correction values from the RS SPL meter chart then I added 20db because that would have brought me to 0db MV.

I hope this is right

I made sure that 0db MV was reference level after I used MCACC set up on my SC-05 receiver. I played each tone at -20db MV. With that reading I then added the proper correction values from the RS SPL meter chart then I added 20db because that would have brought me to 0db MV.

I hope this is rightWhy'd you add 20dB? The shape of the curve would be identical.

Why'd you add 20dB? The shape of the curve would be identical.

Only to indicate what the subs max SPL is at reference level

This, of course, assumes no compression of output at reference level. I was looking at those original measurements and was wondering about the output level. I'd think reference level for one VTF 3 mk 3 would be reaching its maximum (and possibly exceeding) output capabilty, with very little head room left. Remember, 6 dB is twice as loud.

This, of course, assumes no compression of output at reference level. I was looking at those original measurements and was wondering about the output level. I'd think reference level for one VTF 3 mk 3 would be reaching its maximum (and possibly exceeding) output capabilty, with very little head room left. Remember, 6 dB is twice as loud.Which is why I thought he was measuring at too high an SPL in the first place, too. But, yeah, I do not think that simply adding 20dB as an extrapolation of what the sub MIGHT be doing at reference level is valid.

Which is why I thought he was measuring at too high an SPL in the first place, too. But, yeah, I do not think that simply adding 20dB as an extrapolation of what the sub MIGHT be doing at reference level is valid.

That makes sense guys, I learn new things everyday in this hobby! I will tell you this. I have watched movies like Iron Man, Transformers, Band of Brothers, Kung Fu Panda etc etc on Blu-ray with the lossless tracks at near reference levels and have not encountered any difficulties with the HSU yet.
I experienced a decent amount of "chuffing" I have got with a song called "Saint-Saens" organ symphony (1st song on HSU demo CD). I was playing it in max extension at about -10db and that 16hz organ pedal note was like a sinewave tone! In max output with both ports open its fine, but I lose a lot of 16hz output.

I will tell you this. I have watched movies like Iron Man, Transformers, Band of Brothers, Kung Fu Panda etc etc on Blu-ray with the lossless tracks at near reference levels and have not encountered any difficulties with the HSU yet.We're not saying that you would have difficulties (necessarily). Only that there would be compression if you measured at such a high level. Which would make the shape of the curve different. You probably have compression when you listen to movies at high SPL. With a complex soundtrack, it's just not something you would really (necessarily) hear relative to listening to that same movie at a lower volume.

What they are saying is adding 20dB to the FR graph is not indicative of what the FR would be if you took a measurement with the volume up by 20dB.

What they are saying is adding 20dB to the FR graph is not indicative of what the FR would be if you took a measurement with the volume up by 20dB.

Curtis, thanks, I understand what they were saying and it makes sense. I forgot about compression factors. Either way, the graph is what it is. It is not a bad FR responce with no EQ I am convinced, however, EQ will help. Will the EQ help interms of headroom gain as well?

Hey, I just bought a used 8033 and its one the way! Again looking at my numbers in MO, would invoking the 15hz-25hz lift option be of any benefit to me?

Hey, I just bought a used 8033 and its one the way! Again looking at my numbers in MO, would invoking the 15hz-25hz lift option be of any benefit to me?
Do some measurements after using the 8033 and see what affect it has. The lift is certainly not going to make your FR any flatter, but you might like what it does.

Hey, I just bought a used 8033 and its one the way! Again looking at my numbers in MO, would invoking the 15hz-25hz lift option be of any benefit to me?

Give the lift a shot but be forewarned, it is a lot of lift. I found it fun for about an hour of demo material and then a bit too much on my dual MFW's.

My 8033 arrived today all safe and sound!! I hooked it up ran a quick calibration (3-point to be exact) and done! Afterwards, I wound up turning up the gain on my 3.3 from 9 o-clock to 10 o'clock now. I think the peaks are tamed now I also tried with the 25hz lift and without. I think I like it engaged best. I will have to run a full MCACC this weekend and get everything dialed in the best it can be.

Here is what Anti-Mode is doing in my room, sorry no graphs I have a single HSU VTF3 MK 3, no ports plugged in maximum output mode. I used sinewaves I burned to a CD off the internet. Just the subwoofer was playing, receiver crossed at 80hz, master volume at -20db (MCACC calibrated). Numbers were taken with a Rat Shack analog SPL meter and corrections were made. Listening position 12 feet away.

EQ off:
16hz = 67db
18hz = 72db
20hz = 79db
22hz = 86db
25hz = 90db
28hz = 92db
31.5hz = 98db
36hz = 87db
40hz = 90db
45hz = 87db
50hz = 83db
56hz = 85db
63hz = 80db
71hz = 81db
80hz = 77db

EQ on:
16hz = 66db
18hz = 72db
20hz = 77db
22hz = 82db
25hz = 78hz
28hz = 79db
31.5hz = 79db
36hz = 79db
40hz = 82db
45hz = 85db
50hz = 82db
56hz = 85db
63hz = 79db
71hz = 77db
80hz = 78db

The only thing I question as to the small peak at 22hz. Is that because the HSU 3.3 is tuned at 22hz?

Lots of input and opinions welcome :D

^^^
One more thing I forgot to say was that the EQ numbers are a 3-position calibration in the listening area. The EQ numbers were taken in the main position.