I just purchased 2 Fantom 113 and love them but I can't help but wonder if I can get even better bass and I like the different modes on the velodyne sms1. My question is will a velodyne SMS1 work with my 2 f133 and how does it hook up? I am running totally balanced and I have the 2 F113 linked together as master and slave. Would I just take the input out of the preamp and inject the sms1 there and once I control the master f113 the slave will follow?

That configuration should work fine. You will get better bass and the modes come in very handy. They are fully customizable.

Suggestion: Don't expect great results from the auto-eq. The auto-eq doesn't truly act as a parametric eq.

Yep, it will work fine, better in fact than the built in ARO.

Great looking HT Jason. Two JLs in that space must be stunning.

To say that the SMS-1 will improve upon performance over the ARO is purely subjective and should be treated as such.

What would be most relevant to you at this stage is identifying exactly what you're unhappy with in performance. Once determined, you can effectively impliment a solution.

The SMS-1 will use the same profile for both subs based on ONE microphone sample from ONE room position. The JLs would be better served as each as a master and letting each ARO determine the best response relative to it's individual position in the room. Liken it to two SMS-1 units.

If they are joined and colocated or at least at the same distance from the listeing position they would bascially be treated as one anyway. The ARO is essentially a single band EQ to assist in taming a bad peak. The SMS-1 will have MUCH more flexibility if they are close in phase.

. The ARO is essentially a single band EQ to assist in taming a bad peak.

Really? What's that all about. Never heard that before. That's the entire function of the ARO?

Great looking HT Jason. Two JLs in that space must be stunning.

To say that the SMS-1 will improve upon performance over the ARO is purely subjective and should be treated as such.

What would be most relevant to you at this stage is identifying exactly what you're unhappy with in performance. Once determined, you can effectively impliment a solution.

The SMS-1 will use the same profile for both subs based on ONE microphone sample from ONE room position. The JLs would be better served as each as a master and letting each ARO determine the best response relative to it's individual position in the room. Liken it to two SMS-1 units.

The limitation of the ARO is that it is a single band parametric EQ while the SMS-1 has 8 bands. The ARO is a completely automatic but blind operation while the SMS-1 is (or should be) used manually and interactively.

My suggestion is to use the ARO on each JL first and then use the SMS-1 on the pair. And be sure you use the manual mode on the SMS-1 as the auto mode is handicapped.

Kal

Really? What's that all about. Never heard that before. That's the entire function of the ARO?

Yep, many are misunderstanding the capabilities of the ARO. It is not a do it all EQ. Many rooms have one peak that is the worst, the ARO will tame that.

YES, as Kal mentioned, the manual mode on SMS allows you to really fine tune things. You can even stack filters if necessary.

So the Only function the ARO performs is single band peQ tuning to resonant room peaks and nothing else??

So the Only function the ARO performs is single band peQ tuning to resonant room peaks and nothing else??Only? That's not too shabby.

I believe it is slightly more complex than that. A typical peq applies the same slope to both sides of the eq point. ARO can have different slopes on each side.

I believe it is slightly more complex than that. A typical peq applies the same slope to both sides of the eq point. ARO can have different slopes on each side.

Possibly, but one band of correction.

I believe it is slightly more complex than that. A typical peq applies the same slope to both sides of the eq point. ARO can have different slopes on each side.

Really? What's that all about. Never heard that before. That's the entire function of the ARO?
There's sarcasm in that question for those that didn't get it. Sorry.........

Exactly my point. Plus the notch, wide or narrow, whether the ARO system is capable i don't know. It would seem to me that applying a single SMS to more than one sub in different locations has it's benefits and drawbacks which would be relevant to room and not just the amount or type of correction available, so i'll stand by my statement that it would be a subjective statement. There's other factors to consider.

Hey, how's about saving the $$$ on the SMS, get a third F113 and smoothe the response throughout the entire room naturally while extending low freq response and increasing output???

Hey, how's about saving the $$$ on the SMS, get a third F113 and smoothe the response throughout the entire room naturally while extending low freq response and increasing output???

How would a third f113 extend the frequency response? The response is what it is. Adding multiples isn't going to change the response extension. As far as savings go, you're saving $600 to put toward anoter $3000 or so? Dosn't sound like much savings.

To extend the frequency response, you need a sub that plays deeper. That isn't an f113.

How would a third f113 extend the frequency response? The response is what it is. Adding multiples isn't going to change the response extension. As far as savings go, you're saving $600 to put toward anoter $3000 or so? Dosn't sound like much savings.

To extend the frequency response, you need a sub that plays deeper. That isn't an f113.

Really? So if one JL is 95db at 16hz, which isn't considered much, what would 2 be, or even three. Hey lets throw room gain in there and how bout the sealed alignment that shows 88db at 10hz....What happens when you multiply that by three? Yes...audible low freqency is extended. You've forgotten the last flame war on sealed vs ported already???

The f113 is heavily internally eq'd for a flat response to just below 20hz, then is low filtered for a sharp rolloff below that. It doesn't follow the natural gradual 2nd order acoustic rolloff of a typical sealed sub. It's eq'd and filtered response resembles more that of a ported sub tuned in the low 20hz range.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113-new.html

You can put as many f113 in a room as you want and you'll get a lot of output overall, but don't expect useable response to 10hz. It simply isn't designed for it. Take note of the low bass distortion levels when higher than 105db sweeps are utilized.

A better sealed choice for response to 10 hz would be something unfiltered like a Submersive or perhaps an eD A7s or an HSU ULS-15.

Really? What's that all about. Never heard that before. That's the entire function of the ARO?
There's sarcasm in that question for those that didn't get it. Sorry.........

Exactly my point. Plus the notch, wide or narrow, whether the ARO system is capable i don't know. It would seem to me that applying a single SMS to more than one sub in different locations has it's benefits and drawbacks which would be relevant to room and not just the amount or type of correction available, so i'll stand by my statement that it would be a subjective statement. There's other factors to consider.

Hey, how's about saving the $$$ on the SMS, get a third F113 and smoothe the response throughout the entire room naturally while extending low freq response and increasing output???

Sarcasm doesn't always carry through written word well.

The ARO is an transparent automatic operation. While I'm sure it's effective, there is still value in having an SMS-1. As Kal said, let ARO do its duty individually and then use SMS-1 to fine tune the rest of the bands. And with the SMS-1, you can verify for yourself the frequency response at each of your seating positions, and give you a more complete picture of what your final result is. With the 8 bands of PEQ, the flexibility of its adjustments allows nearly anybody to get good results for their given situation provided you have some time and drive to experiement a bit. As well, it might even help you find a better placement of the two subs itself since you can use it as a objective measurement tool (without resorting to using a RTA software with a computer)

The f113 is heavily internally eq'd for a flat response to just below 20hz, then is low filtered for a sharp rolloff below that. It doesn't follow the natural gradual 2nd order acoustic rolloff of a typical sealed sub. It's eq'd and filtered response resembles more that of a ported sub tuned in the low 20hz range.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113-new.html

You can put as many f113 in a room as you want and you'll get a lot of output overall, but don't expect useable response to 10hz. It simply isn't designed for it. Take note of the low bass distortion levels when higher than 105db sweeps are utilized.

Sorry Mike, i have to disagree with you on your last statement. It simply isn't accurate. Adding distortion plots doesn't sway away from the point, and the audibility of distortion in the lower octaves is debatable in all camps discussing it lately. While the JL does have some sort of high pass, it's far from sharp when there's ANY response at 10hz, let alone over 80db. The OP has no idea where his room is lacking and neither does anyone posting replies to his post. Without seeing his measured in room response could we possibly say employing an SMS will improve it?
Because we can tune 8 bands of eQ? That justifies a $600 investment for sub control that's parallel for both units in different places in the room? How can 1 SMS unit control room modes excited at different locations by the individual subs? It can't...but the individual ARO can....and these room modes are probobly the most annoying truth in LF reproduction.

The new key to smooth in room response is multiple sealed subs, three or more....embrace it..it is your friend. And for those of us that can do dual bass arrays i challenge anyone to post a smoother in room response graph than one produced by these latest creations.

Sorry Mike, i have to disagree with you on your last statement. It simply isn't accurate. Adding distortion plots doesn't sway away from the point, and the audibility of distortion in the lower octaves is debatable in all camps discussing it lately. While the JL does have some sort of high pass, it's far from sharp when there's ANY response at 10hz, let alone over 80db. The OP has no idea where his room is lacking and neither does anyone posting replies to his post. Without seeing his measured in room response could we possibly say employing an SMS will improve it?
Because we can tune 8 bands of eQ? That justifies a $600 investment for sub control that's parallel for both units in different places in the room? How can 1 SMS unit control room modes excited at different locations by the individual subs? It can't...but the individual ARO can....and these room modes are probobly the most annoying truth in LF reproduction.

The new key to smooth in room response is multiple sealed subs, three or more....embrace it..it is your friend. And for those of us that can do dual bass arrays i challenge anyone to post a smoother in room response graph than one produced by these latest creations.deleted

Sorry Mike, i have to disagree with you on your last statement. It simply isn't accurate. Adding distortion plots doesn't sway away from the point, and the audibility of distortion in the lower octaves is debatable in all camps discussing it lately. While the JL does have some sort of high pass, it's far from sharp when there's ANY response at 10hz, let alone over 80db. The OP has no idea where his room is lacking and neither does anyone posting replies to his post. Without seeing his measured in room response could we possibly say employing an SMS will improve it?
Because we can tune 8 bands of eQ? That justifies a $600 investment for sub control that's parallel for both units in different places in the room? How can 1 SMS unit control room modes excited at different locations by the individual subs? It can't...but the individual ARO can....and these room modes are probobly the most annoying truth in LF reproduction.

The new key to smooth in room response is multiple sealed subs, three or more....embrace it..it is your friend. And for those of us that can do dual bass arrays i challenge anyone to post a smoother in room response graph than one produced by these latest creations.multiple subs are the key to great bass in all places...however your idea about ELF is a terrific waste of money in a futile attempt to reach 10 Hz...you are only looking at spl output but the real thing that matters is BANDWIDTH in this instance...

I'll state for the record that the f113 is a remarkable piece of sonic engineering but the FR is what it is...a rolloff of 24 dB/octave is'nt exactly conducive to ELF, regardless of the strength of the driver...an enclosure this small simply has limitations...

Now you could spend i guess $12k on four of them but in regards to 10 Hz performance it would be the most hideous waste of money ever recorded...88 dB @ 10 Hz is meaningless without distortion %...let's say add three more and get to 100 dB at the same level of distortion, which looks to be well over 30% at any sweep level...what about the portion of the bandwidth above the knee?...it increases by 12 dB as well...no matter what you try you are still down too far [24 dB] at 10 Hz to affect the sound signature...you are simply adding headroom...now you could shelf/cut the bandwidth above the knee by the requisite amount to flatten the response a little but we are talking about 10 Hz here, not 16 and there's a huge difference imo...and there goes your headroom when you make the attempt...

Ilkka's distortion plot for 105 dB goes down to 16 Hz and no lower...even the 90 dB sweep [i think Ilkka starts here] shows well over 30% THD at what "looks" like 10 Hz...we can deduce that THD will be quite high at anything approaching 10 Hz and this 30%+ THD will remain at 100 dB of output, which is about the level where 10 Hz starts making an impact.

If you look at the THD sweeps you will see the hotspot in the excursion profile because of the equalization used to lower f3...looks like around 20 Hz...it is not hard to figure why THD at 20 Hz is actually higher than at 10 for the higher sweep levels...the f113 will come closest to xmax at that [20 Hz]frequency so any frequencies below it must be attenuated as not to cause the driver to self-destruct, hence the highpass filtering.

All you can do is cut headroom because the sub's low frequencies can't be further lifted below it's eq'd f3

This subwoofer solution fights itself chiefly because of it's size and it's highpass protection, with 16-20 Hz on up it's preferred area of operation...both the enclosure and the filtering are acting against excursion, the very thing you need PLENTY of to reach 10 Hz...you apply massive power to fight both and you get power compression, which overheats the coil, damages the FR and raises THD...forget it...for 10 Hz you need multiple-driver/multiple subwoofers without highpass filtering...there's no other way around it...and because of manufacturer concern for WAF, driver/product reliability/longevity you simply won't get that off the shelf in a store...you have to build it yourself...the f113 is'nt designed for such extension, even for the smallest of rooms.

A subwoofer such as this would'nt even BE a choice for going after ELF...not even close...this is less about THD than it is about sound signature and bandwidth.

[QUOTE=kramskoi;15620127]multiple subs are the key to great bass in all places...however your idea about ELF is a terrific waste of money in a futile attempt to reach 10 Hz...you are only looking at spl output but the real thing that matters is BANDWIDTH in this instance...]

Thanks for the lengthy reply....but the post wasn't about an attempt to reach 10Hz, but the advantages of multiple subs and the fact that for multiple sealed units, the audible low freq output is extended while also smoothing in room response. I understand your statements completely in regards to ULF output and how it's attained. I've built dual sealed 18's to get it. What i don't neccesarelly agree with is the importance of harmonic distortion in this range and the human ear's ability to detect it. Lots of blind tests performed in this area with unconclusive results. Now what's your position on adding an SMS-1 to improve in performance upon two f113s where the lack of performance has not been identified?
That's what got us here in the first place.

Sorry Mike, i have to disagree with you on your last statement. It simply isn't accurate. Adding distortion plots doesn't sway away from the point, and the audibility of distortion in the lower octaves is debatable in all camps discussing it lately. While the JL does have some sort of high pass, it's far from sharp when there's ANY response at 10hz, let alone over 80db.
As a rebuttle to this, I'll let kramskoi's statement stand since I agree with just about all of it. A fine sub the JLf113 is, but that doesn't make it an ultra-low frequency device.

The OP has no idea where his room is lacking and neither does anyone posting replies to his post. Without seeing his measured in room response could we possibly say employing an SMS will improve it?
Because we can tune 8 bands of eQ? That justifies a $600 investment for sub control that's parallel for both units in different places in the room? How can 1 SMS unit control room modes excited at different locations by the individual subs? It can't...but the individual ARO can....and these room modes are probobly the most annoying truth in LF reproduction.

The new key to smooth in room response is multiple sealed subs, three or more....embrace it..it is your friend. And for those of us that can do dual bass arrays i challenge anyone to post a smoother in room response graph than one produced by these latest creations.

Multiple subs are a key toward smooth response, but the design of the subs (ported vs sealed) is not the point. Why would you assume that sealed subs will give a smoother response without knowing what sort of room they would be used in? Also, what kind of sealed sub are you talking about: One with a flattened and filterd response like the Fathoms or one with a natural 2nd order rolloff and no low filter like a Submersive or even a sealed 13Ultra. They are not all the same and depending on the room, one type can work better than another. Hint: It's going to be the unfiltered ones that are better suited to get you to 10hz.

As far as whether an SMS-1 is worth what it costs, one should consider that it is the only self-contained eq/sub controller that can do what it does by remote control while viewing it in real time on your TV. It's far more than mearly an 8 band equalizer. It's truly parametric. It allows for choosing crossovers with a resolution as fine as 1hz at a time and gives you complete control of their slopes. It gives you total control over a low filter if you choose to emply one. After the subs are properly eq'd, the remote-controlled fully customizable preset modes and sub volume control come in very handy for adjusting the bass to what sort of material you are listening to.

It is a rare room that cannot benefit from some eq in the bass range. Some need it more than other, but almost all can be improved upon. In my opinion, since you hear what is the summed product of all of the multiple subs playing in the room, it is advantagious to eq all together rather than individually.

BTW, not that it really matters but generally the SMS can be had around $400 new and of course less used.

Maybe Velodyne will get their act together and release and SMS-2 that can handle two discreet outputs.

[QUOTE=kramskoi;15620127]multiple subs are the key to great bass in all places...however your idea about ELF is a terrific waste of money in a futile attempt to reach 10 Hz...you are only looking at spl output but the real thing that matters is BANDWIDTH in this instance...]

Thanks for the lengthy reply....but the post wasn't about an attempt to reach 10Hz, but the advantages of multiple subs and the fact that for multiple sealed units, the audible low freq output is extended while also smoothing in room response. I understand your statements completely in regards to ULF output and how it's attained. I've built dual sealed 18's to get it. What i don't neccesarelly agree with is the importance of harmonic distortion in this range and the human ear's ability to detect it. Lots of blind tests performed in this area with unconclusive results. Now what's your position on adding an SMS-1 to improve in performance upon two f113s where the lack of performance has not been identified?
That's what got us here in the first place.this will depend on the ceiling height, room size/shape, and how "live" the room is...ceramic tile, wood flooring, no drapes and minimal furniture will cause one much more trouble in smoothing the response...with 8 bands and two separate subs to move around this should'nt be as much a problem, given the myriad of adjustments available with the SMS-1 through phase, PEQ and crossover slope...one thing to note [at the risk of nitpicking] about Ilkka's measurements regarding potential improvement in VLF is the 15 Hz subsonic filter that, IIRC can't be defeated in the SMS-1...you can set it to 6 dB/ octave but this will make the rolloff ~30 dB/octave instead of just 24...beyond this, the SMS-1 has enough resolution to solve modal issues in most rooms...otherwise, hardware like Behringer DEQ and Bassis offer more flexibility.

I would personally opt for a Behringer/REW solution and the Bassis...but without using a f113 as the transducer of choice...just my cup of tea.;)

As a rebuttle to this, I'll let kramskoi's statement stand since I agree with just about all of it. A fine sub the JLf113 is, but that doesn't make it an ultra-low frequency device.



Multiple subs are a key toward smooth response, but the design of the subs (ported vs sealed) is not the point. Why would you assume that sealed subs will give a smoother response without knowing what sort of room they would be used in? Also, what kind of sealed sub are you talking about: One with a flattened and filterd response like the Fathoms or one with a natural 2nd order rolloff and no low filter like a Submersive or even a sealed 13Ultra. They are not all the same and depending on the room, one type can work better than another. Hint: It's going to be the unfiltered ones that are better suited to get you to 10hz.

As far as whether an SMS-1 is worth what it costs, one should consider that it is the only self-contained eq/sub controller that can do what it does by remote control while viewing it in real time on your TV. It's far more than mearly an 8 band equalizer. It's truly parametric. It allows for choosing crossovers with a resolution as fine as 1hz at a time and gives you complete control of their slopes. It gives you total control over a low filter if you choose to emply one. After the subs are properly eq'd, the remote-controlled fully customizable preset modes and sub volume control come in very handy for adjusting the bass to what sort of material you are listening to.

It is a rare room that cannot benefit from some eq in the bass range. Some need it more than other, but almost all can be improved upon. In my opinion, since you hear what is the summed product of all of the multiple subs playing in the room, it is advantagious to eq all together rather than individually.

You're still not addressing the issue, but you've moved away from the generalized one line suppositions, so it's a start. Whenever you're ready to commit a direct answer to the question??

What question was that?

What question was that?

From Post #19

The OP has no idea where his room is lacking and neither does anyone posting replies to his post. Without seeing his measured in room response could we possibly say employing an SMS will improve it?

Yes or No? That's all...that was the OPs question as i understood it.

I do enjoy arguing with you, so please don't take offense BTW! LOL

No offense taken! :) If any of my local friends were audio geeks like myself, I wouldn't have to hang out here debating on this forum. I do because I enjoy it.

I agree that you need to diagnose first before you can treat. REW can do the trick for the diagnosis part.

What I do believe, though, is that it is rare to find a room in which the bass response can't be improved with some eq, be it SMS, Behringer, eD, Antiinode, etc.

BTW, not that it really matters but generally the SMS can be had around $400 new and of course less used.

Maybe Velodyne will get their act together and release and SMS-2 that can handle two discreet outputs.


Now why in the heck do you have to limit the SMS-2 to only two discreet outputs....? 4 would be a more meaningful # and have far more flexibility....

Now why in the heck do you have to limit the SMS-2 to only two discreet outputs....? 4 would be a more meaningful # and have far more flexibility....

I would hope they wouldn't but at least it would be a 100% increase over what they have now.:)

OK, make it an SMS-4.

Now why in the heck do you have to limit the SMS-2 to only two discreet outputs....? 4 would be a more meaningful # and have far more flexibility....

that would come with the SMS-4 :D

sorry, couldn't resist hitting the bad joke.

crap edit: was too slow with my joke. joe beat me to it (at least i wasn't the only one who thought about it)

I could give a dump what cha call it.... just bring it.... :)

I mean seriously, its not like we're stretching it on processing power, how much is a couple of Quad Cores these days.... I would imagine that would more then cover it.. :)

Now why in the heck do you have to limit the SMS-2 to only two discreet outputs....? 4 would be a more meaningful # and have far more flexibility....

The discrete outputs aren't all that beneficial unless you can control each outputs EQ individually. Since the sms-1 only handles one EQ setting at a time just use a Y-splitter to add more outputs.

I just purchased 2 Fantom 113 and love them but I can't help but wonder if I can get even better bass and I like the different modes on the velodyne sms1. My question is will a velodyne SMS1 work with my 2 f133 and how does it hook up? I am running totally balanced and I have the 2 F113 linked together as master and slave. Would I just take the input out of the preamp and inject the sms1 there and once I control the master f113 the slave will follow?

Not to take this off topic but here it is. I have a single Fathom F113 in my Theater. My Room is 15 X 22 x 9ft ceilings. I mainly use it for movies. The single fathom does a good job alone. It shakes my seating area a little and I can feel the room vibrating on explosive scenes. My question is would adding a second F113 shake the room and seats more and give me more of a punch in the gut?

ProgrammerGeek could you test a scene in a movie and tell me if there is a big difference between one Fathom and two Fathoms being used. One scene would be on Dark Knight when Batman test firing a device on a wire to duplicate the bullet. Thanks in advance.

Not to take this off topic but here it is. I have a single Fathom F113 in my Theater. My Room is 15 X 22 x 9ft ceilings. I mainly use it for movies. The single fathom does a good job alone. It shakes my seating area a little and I can feel the room vibrating on explosive scenes. My question is would adding a second F113 shake the room and seats more and give me more of a punch in the gut?

ProgrammerGeek could you test a scene in a movie and tell me if there is a big difference between one Fathom and two Fathoms being used. One scene would be on Dark Knight when Batman test firing a device on a wire to duplicate the bullet. Thanks in advance.

Yep! 6db more of gut kicks....plus lower audible extension and an overall smoother bass response throughout the room.

Yep! 6db more of gut kicks....plus lower audible extension and an overall smoother bass response throughout the room.
You would get 6dB more of capability if the subs were co-located.....and if they were colocated, you would not get the smoother bass response throughout the room.

If the system is calibrated properly, you may not experience any more "shaking" than you do now.

What ProgrammerGeek experiences in his room may not be what is experienced in kutlow's room. You need to take some measurements to see where you are lacking. Often times just moving the sub a few feet will make a big difference.

You would get 6dB more of capability if the subs were co-located.....and if they were colocated, you would not get the smoother bass response throughout the room.

If the system is calibrated properly, you may not experience any more "shaking" than you do now.

What ProgrammerGeek experiences in his room may not be what is experienced in kutlow's room. You need to take some measurements to see where you are lacking. Often times just moving the sub a few feet will make a big difference.

I would not stack them but could place side by side in between the center and the RF speaker. So would I be wasting my hard earned money? Would help if someone has two and could do a simple test.

I would not stack them but could place side by side in between the center and the RF speaker. So would I be wasting my hard earned money? Would help if someone has two and could do a simple test.
That would still be co-locating. Like I posted above....rooms and setups are different, having someone compare in their room will not be beneficial to your situation.

That would still be co-locating. Like I posted above....rooms and setups are different, having someone compare in their room will not be beneficial to your situation.

what I was referring to is that I understand that if you stack 2 F113'S that you would get 6 db more. If you place lets say one in between the center and RF and one between the center and LF you would get 3 db more. What I am looking for is pressure I guess to move my sitting area and shake it more. In the chest feel. I do not own a sms-1 or any other measuring tools.

I hope you understand what I am up against.

what I was referring to is that I understand that if you stack 2 F113'S that you would get 6 db more. If you place lets say one in between the center and RF and one between the center and LF you would get 3 db more. What I am looking for is pressure I guess to move my sitting area and shake it more. In the chest feel. I do not own a sms-1 or any other measuring tools.

I hope you understand what I am up against.
Sorry, I get a better picture now. Yes, you are right, the system would be capable of 3dB more. Remember though, that is in general terms. All rooms are different.

No one can tell you what you will experience in your room. There are just too many variables. Without measurements, you do not know what you really have or don't have.

Do you have an SPL meter?

No I dont. Bad part is these subs arnt cheap enough to just buy one and try it out. I would loose big money trying to resell. Darn....

The discrete outputs aren't all that beneficial unless you can control each outputs EQ individually. Since the sms-1 only handles one EQ setting at a time just use a Y-splitter to add more outputs.

No really.

It already has 3 or 4 summed outputs so no Y is necessary.

All you need is one EQ but the ability to set phase/distance on each output is all that is needed.

No I dont. Bad part is these subs arnt cheap enough to just buy one and try it out. I would loose big money trying to resell. Darn....
Spend the $40 on a meter and get a better understanding of what is going on in your room.

Have you tried your sub in different locations in the room?

Spend the $40 on a meter and get a better understanding of what is going on in your room.

Have you tried your sub in different locations in the room?

Do you have a link to the meter? Thanks....Newbee here...:)

Do you have a link to the meter? Thanks....Newbee here...:)
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kw=Sound-Level%20Meter&origkw=Sound-Level%20Meter

Is your system calibrated? Speakers and sub level matched? What does your system consist of?

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kw=Sound-Level%20Meter&origkw=Sound-Level%20Meter

Is your system calibrated? Speakers and sub level matched? What does your system consist of?

I ran the Audessey set up

2 RF-83 Floorstanders http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83-home-theater-system.aspx
1 RC-64 Center
4 RS-62 Surrounds (2 for surround back and 2 for side surround)
1 JL Audio F113 Subwoofer
1 Dennon 4308ci AVR
1 Pioneer 51FD Blueray Player
1 JVC RS-20 projector
Dalite 1.3 gain 55 x 132 (2.40) aspect ration screen
1- Panamorph UH480 Anamorphic lens

Great stuff.

It would be good to double check the Audessey setup with a meter.

To get more rumble, you could simply turn the level up on the sub.

Don't mean to ask a stupid question but the SMS1 manual doesn't elaborate on this at all. What does the "Q" setting do exactly and how does it effect the eq process? Maybe someone can explain this to me in Layman's terms.. :) as proper eq'ing is a fairly new experience to me. I understand the goal and I understand the basic adjustments but the "Q" adjustment is not very clear to me.

Don't mean to ask a stupid question but the SMS1 manual doesn't elaborate on this at all. What does the "Q" setting do exactly and how does it effect the eq process? Maybe someone can explain this to me in Layman's terms.. :) as proper eq'ing is a fairly new experience to me. I understand the goal and I understand the basic adjustments but the "Q" adjustment is not very clear to me.

Try this guide:http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf

Works for me.

Bye