I have a friend also very interested in the Sub15. But he is also looking at the B&W DB1 sub as well. Anyone know how capable the DB1 is vs the Sub15 ? Also sealed, it has dual 12 inch woofers but it only has +- 15 mm of linear excursion per woofer and a 1000 watt Ice amp, if I'm not mistaken.

I have a friend also very interested in the Sub15. But he is also looking at the B&W DB1 sub as well. Anyone know how capable the DB1 is vs the Sub15 ? Also sealed, it has dual 12 inch woofers but it only has +- 15 mm of linear excursion per woofer and a 1000 watt Ice amp, if I'm not mistaken.

Well... When I think of B&W, subs don't really come to mind. You can see how little play their subs get on the forum. That said, I'm not too familiar with the DB1.

Still, I think the Sub 15 would be the safe selection.

I think most people know already this but the biggest relying factor on sub output and quality is the room and max spl levels rely on the room gain.

I haven't yet measured max spl level I can get with my SUB 25 in the basement, but I will tell you that with my old Paradigm Servo 15 upstairs in my living room (which is not small and has lots of openings) I have measured and can get over 120 db of clean bass output and the ultra low frequencies that you can feel (<20Hz) are not a problem with that old dog. ;)

The point is of course, your room is the most important factor.

happy to hear that 2 sub12 should outperforme a 15...cause im getting a second sub12 pretty soon and the PBK....CANT wait to hear that!..cause FYI the sub12 is the best sub i ever had yet in all terms...digging..playing loud yes and ...OH yes accuracy and thightness and fastness!!... i like it cause i listen to a lot of music!...and for movies it goes even lower then the seismic12 i had before!...love it and 2 of them should make my world!!...:D

Maybe in output, but not extension.

Maybe in output, but not extension.

Don't forget the biggest advantage that duals provide. The ability to even out LF response is far more important than any minor difference in output or extension, imo.

Just ordered 2 sub 12's in rosenut.
Looking forward to hearing these PBK'd in my
medium room. Might keep my BPS-400 with them.
Should be a nice step up from dual pw-2200's though.
I have lots of dB, just want some more punch.

Just ordered 2 sub 12's in rosenut.
Looking forward to hearing these PBK'd in my
medium room. Might keep my BPS-400 with them.
Should be a nice step up from dual pw-2200's though.
I have lots of dB, just want some more punch.

Now that is a great christmas present !!

Yeah, should be awesome. Right now I'm enjoying 1050 watts of 12" LFE effects, so the 2000 plus watts should be a nice upgrade. Would have loved dual sub 15's, but considering I'm replacing the whole system in phases, the budget had to be capped on subs. I am really hoping the pbk and ARC software will help too.
I auditioned a single sub 12 in a comparable, albeit sealed room, and it was stunning. I'm a real bass freak, and 1 would likely be enough. I'm a firm believer in at least 2 subs though, and I didn't want to step down below the sub 12 quality-wise.
When I build the HT room in the basement, I will likely get a flagship sub to top off the system. The room will be almost 30 ft long.

I see some comments on the bass quality of the paradigm subs as compared to the submersive. Has anyone had a chance to compare the bass quality vs rythmik? Just curious.

i'm planning on buying the 100's, cc-690, ADP-590's, 20's and was figuring a single Sub 15 would suffice in my 24'x29' basement. my seperates are Marantz AV7005/MM7025?MM7055.

you got me scared now thinking i'm gonna need more bass than the Sub 15 will provide.....:(

This is the exact set-up I have except I have 2 sub-12's. My room is also way smaller, somewhere around 14x20x7.5. In this room a single sub-12 was ok, but one at each end of the room is insane at -10. I have a Denon 4810ci and a NAD-275-BEE if that means anything. Tomorrow I will be adding a set of Studio 10's for the HEIGHT speakers and finish my 9.2 system. If I were you I would plan on 2 subs. Just my opinion of course.

I think most people know already this but the biggest relying factor on sub output and quality is the room and max spl levels rely on the room gain.

I haven't yet measured max spl level I can get with my SUB 25 in the basement, but I will tell you that with my old Paradigm Servo 15 upstairs in my living room (which is not small and has lots of openings) I have measured and can get over 120 db of clean bass output and the ultra low frequencies that you can feel (<20Hz) are not a problem with that old dog. ;)

The point is of course, your room is the most important factor.
+1 room is more important than anything else. :)

Yeah, should be awesome. Right now I'm enjoying 1050 watts of 12" LFE effects, so the 2000 plus watts should be a nice upgrade. Would have loved dual sub 15's, but considering I'm replacing the whole system in phases, the budget had to be capped on subs. I am really hoping the pbk and ARC software will help too.
I auditioned a single sub 12 in a comparable, albeit sealed room, and it was stunning. I'm a real bass freak, and 1 would likely be enough. I'm a firm believer in at least 2 subs though, and I didn't want to step down below the sub 12 quality-wise.
When I build the HT room in the basement, I will likely get a flagship sub to top off the system. The room will be almost 30 ft long.

same here. your setup sounds sick!

This is the exact set-up I have except I have 2 sub-12's. My room is also way smaller, somewhere around 14x20x7.5. In this room a single sub-12 was ok, but one at each end of the room is insane at -10. I have a Denon 4810ci and a NAD-275-BEE if that means anything. Tomorrow I will be adding a set of Studio 10's for the HEIGHT speakers and finish my 9.2 system. If I were you I would plan on 2 subs. Just my opinion of course.

i think i'll plan on 2. start with 1 and see what happens. i was planning on the Sub 15.

I assume you own a camaro?
Nice car, modded one this summer.
I'm getting a little nervous about my sub 12 choice. It will be considerably better than my current set-up, but geez, you guys are going to go deaf listening that loud. My system can do 110 dB, but it's not something I do more than a few times a year. My family does not enjoy it that loud, 120dB is so much louder!!!
I can't imagine working the 15 to distortion!!! It has to be set quite loud at moderate speaker levels. In order to get my BPS400 to cry uncle, the gain has to be past 1/2 way. Then, the sound is not balanced though. The bass is too loud for the overall system. I turn it down so when the speakers are about to blow, the sub is about the same.
What dB does this occur at?

I assume you own a camaro?
Nice car, modded one this summer.
I'm getting a little nervous about my sub 12 choice. It will be considerably better than my current set-up, but geez, you guys are going to go deaf listening that loud. My system can do 110 dB, but it's not something I do more than a few times a year. My family does not enjoy it that loud, 120dB is so much louder!!!
I can't imagine working the 15 to distortion!!! It has to be set quite loud at moderate speaker levels. In order to get my BPS400 to cry uncle, the gain has to be past 1/2 way. Then, the sound is not balanced though. The bass is too loud for the overall system. I turn it down so when the speakers are about to blow, the sub is about the same.
What dB does this occur at?

I'm not sure if you're saying the sub12's will be enough or too much but either way, you will enjoy them. They're amazing. I'll tell you what they are not, and that is fun to move around the room looking for the sweet spot. I ended up with one at each end just off to the left (front and back) and even though I can't get my PBK to work, they are still awesome.

I'm not sure if you're saying the sub12's will be enough or too much but either way, you will enjoy them. They're amazing. I'll tell you what they are not, and that is fun to move around the room looking for the sweet spot. I ended up with one at each end just off to the left (front and back) and even though I can't get my PBK to work, they are still awesome.

Just that most feel the 15 is better by an appreciable margin.
I'm sure they will impress. Gotta get a good reference set of movies and music set aside for when they arrive. Then, evaluate again once broken in.

Yeah, should be awesome. Right now I'm enjoying 1050 watts of 12" LFE effects, so the 2000 plus watts should be a nice upgrade. Would have loved dual sub 15's, but considering I'm replacing the whole system in phases, the budget had to be capped on subs. I am really hoping the pbk and ARC software will help too.
I auditioned a single sub 12 in a comparable, albeit sealed room, and it was stunning. I'm a real bass freak, and 1 would likely be enough. I'm a firm believer in at least 2 subs though, and I didn't want to step down below the sub 12 quality-wise.
When I build the HT room in the basement, I will likely get a flagship sub to top off the system. The room will be almost 30 ft long.

I have one Sub 12 to go with my v4 Studio 40's and CC590. My great room is 12X24X8 with an opening to the dining area and a half wall next to the kitchen. This sub is awesome both with music and movies. I got myself a PBK for xmas and the improvement was very noticeable. Just finished watching the U2 Live at the Rose Bowl bluray and I was blown away. You won't be disappointed !!

I have one Sub 12 to go with my v4 Studio 40's and CC590. My great room is 12X24X8 with an opening to the dining area and a half wall next to the kitchen. This sub is awesome both with music and movies. I got myself a PBK for xmas and the improvement was very noticeable. Just finished watching the U2 Live at the Rose Bowl bluray and I was blown away. You won't be disappointed !!

Great to hear. Has any body taken any measurements with these subs in their room yet?

So after a ton of reading, these 2 sub 12's will be close to the same output as a single ref 25. That's exciting. Read 27 pages of the 25 thread so far.
Just listed my current stuff and already sold 2speakers and a sub. Might keep the bps-150's to help the studio 100's. The 150's are a real nice tight sub, but so wimpy compared to the new stuff in terms of output. Keep them for a year or two, then get 2 more of something new and exciting from PD.

Where did you read that? 2 Sub 12s are equal to a Sub 25?

Where did you read that? 2 Sub 12s are equal to a Sub 25?

Close. Given all the talk of the benefits of multiple subs, and the fact that dual sub 12's have a 12% power advantage, 22% cone area advantage, but give up 33% enclosure volume. I'd say they easily outperform the sub 15, and are likely slightly outgunned by the 25. Price wise , it fits.
Just wish that they would have given the Sub 1 more power. Might have coughed up for the 6 8" drivers. Love the sound of multiple 8's.

No new owners yet?
I won't have my PW-2200's left by the time the new 12's arrive by the looks of it. If I do, I'm going to try some direct comparisons with ARC on the 2200's, and then pbk/ARC on the 12's. Been watching a lot lately, and 110dB can be had on most movies. That's plenty for me, just hope I can keep the 110, and add a bunch of impact. Like I said earlier, going from 1050 watts total LFE to 3800! Could see an 8dB increase.

No measurements? I hope my dealer is open to changes.
I'm thinking about changing to dual sub 15's. I'll wait to hear the dual 12's first. Just was hoping that somebody would post up some room dB results with these.
My real goal was impact in the mid-bass. The really low stuff is cool, but rattling the house gets old. I just want gunshots and blasts to be visceral.
The single sub 12 I heard at General Audio was pretty punchy to me. Most of you guys are saying that the sub15 is better at that though.
Any other dealers in Calgary? They didn't have a 15 on hand to demo.

Just that most feel the 15 is better by an appreciable margin.
I'm sure they will impress. Gotta get a good reference set of movies and music set aside for when they arrive. Then, evaluate again once broken in.

Fully agreed. I just upgraded from my single Sub12 to a Sub15. Originally I was going to go with duals, but timing of my ability and space to do that is going to take longer than I desire. And since I have a large (very open at the rear) listening space, the Sub12 wasn't cutting it for this long time bass junkie.

So I upgraded to the Sub15, and I can say without blinking and eye, it has a tremendous amount more output, especially at the lower frequencies. I really feel the bass a lot more now than before. And the Sub15 is still equally fast.

So when the basement gets finished (in 2030 :rolleyes:) I will probably still go duals, but it will be with dual Sub15s.

No new owners yet?
I won't have my PW-2200's left by the time the new 12's arrive by the looks of it. If I do, I'm going to try some direct comparisons with ARC on the 2200's, and then pbk/ARC on the 12's. Been watching a lot lately, and 110dB can be had on most movies. That's plenty for me, just hope I can keep the 110, and add a bunch of impact. Like I said earlier, going from 1050 watts total LFE to 3800! Could see an 8dB increase.

I used to own a single PW2200, and loved it to death. What I can tell you is that it always had amazing output. Move the hairs on your arms type output, but was sloppy. The 12 will have the same type of output (in the exact same room) as the 2200, but will be radically faster and shine in the bass detail category. Duals will be outstanding.

I was also debating between these two subs. However, the blowout paradigm subwoofer prices at 6ave.com were too good to pass up so I just ordered a pair of the sub 12s. Should be getting them next week - can't wait!

I was also debating between these two subs. However, the blowout paradigm subwoofer prices at 6ave.com were too good to pass up so I just ordered a pair of the sub 12s. Should be getting them next week - can't wait!

Geez, I paid almost double that! These are the ones that only ship within a certain radius right?
Smoking deal, congrats. They must have good stock.

I used to own a single PW2200, and loved it to death. What I can tell you is that it always had amazing output. Move the hairs on your arms type output, but was sloppy. The 12 will have the same type of output (in the exact same room) as the 2200, but will be radically faster and shine in the bass detail category. Duals will be outstanding.

Yeah, it slowed down music pretty bad. It was awesome for HT. In my relatively small room, it was pretty good with a pair. Never heard them complain. The dual 12's need to sound better by a good margin. I have no doubt about their output being at least equal. The transient response has to be really good so I can blend them for music. The current sub blends so nice, if the duals can match the blend, I won't get anything else done!

I was also debating between these two subs. However, the blowout paradigm subwoofer prices at 6ave.com were too good to pass up so I just ordered a pair of the sub 12s. Should be getting them next week - can't wait!

I have a single Sub 12 that I bought 3 months ago and it is amazing. Two of these bad boys will really rock.

Geez, I paid almost double that! These are the ones that only ship within a certain radius right?
Smoking deal, congrats. They must have good stock.

As far as I know, they will ship anywhere. The subs are being sent by UPS and should be here on Monday. I've ordered a full set of paradigm studio v5 speakers from them at 40-45% off msrp and the speakers were shipped by freight delivery.

I have a single Sub 12 that I bought 3 months ago and it is amazing. Two of these bad boys will really rock.

I really hope so. My space is around 4000 cub. ft so I thought 2 would be necessary. I never really listen that loud since I'm afraid of waking the kids, but it's nice to know that I can. Either way, it should be an upgrade from my 5 yr old entry svs sub.

I really hope so. My space is around 4000 cub. ft so I thought 2 would be necessary. I never really listen that loud since I'm afraid of waking the kids, but it's nice to know that I can. Either way, it should be an upgrade from my 5 yr old entry svs sub.

You should be OK with dual Sub 12s. My great room is roughly 2500 ^3 ft with a 12 foot halfwall separating it from the kitchen and the remainder being open to the dining room. The single Sub 12 does an excellent job of filling the space with deep buttery smooth bass.

You should be OK with dual Sub 12s. My great room is roughly 2500 ^3 ft with a 12 foot halfwall separating it from the kitchen and the remainder being open to the dining room. The single Sub 12 does an excellent job of filling the space with deep buttery smooth bass.

That is a decent sized room to fill up with just one sub. Does it ever whimper or bottom-out? I had my pw220 hit it's limits a few times before I got another one to spread the load. It sounded like a clak, and was nasty. Do the new subs have any kind of soft-limiters on them?

As far as I know, they will ship anywhere. The subs are being sent by UPS and should be here on Monday. I've ordered a full set of paradigm studio v5 speakers from them at 40-45% off msrp and the speakers were shipped by freight delivery.

Just to completely clarify, 6AVE is no longer, I repeat, is no longer an authorized dealer. They were cut off in Sept for breaking Paradigms dealer rules for Internet sales. This is straight from my Paradigm rep himself after I directly asked him. So any purchases made with this company hold no warranty, despite any information from 6AVE to the contrary.

By all means take advantage of the deals if you want, but know that you are NOT buying from an authorized dealer and anything purchased from them does not have one day of warranty.

There is no arguing this point, I am an authorized dealer for Paradigm, and my information comes directly from Paradigm.

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That is a decent sized room to fill up with just one sub. Does it ever whimper or bottom-out? I had my pw220 hit it's limits a few times before I got another one to spread the load. It sounded like a clak, and was nasty. Do the new subs have any kind of soft-limiters on them?

The single Sub 12 does not fall short for me. There is no whimpering or bottoming. :)

Just to completely clarify, 6AVE is no longer, I repeat, is no longer an authorized dealer. They were cut off in Sept for breaking Paradigms dealer rules for Internet sales. This is straight from my Paradigm rep himself after I directly asked him. So any purchases made with this company hold no warranty, despite any information from 6AVE to the contrary.

By all means take advantage of the deals if you want, but know that you are NOT buying from an authorized dealer and anything purchased from them does not have one day of warranty.

There is no arguing this point, I am an authorized dealer for Paradigm, and my information comes directly from Paradigm.


that's not true...... i buy a studio 100 V5 at 6's after opening it i notice one of the midrange has a dent ... i call the paradigm ref... they ask me to email the receipt.... after a week of waiting... i receive the midrange replacement... they will honor the warranty as long as you have the original or copy of the receipt... thanks ... hope this help....

Well, I got my sub 12s today and spent the afternoon setting them up. After gain matching them and running them through Audyssey XT, I listened to some of my favorite music and demoed some movie scenes and music blu rays (Avatar, Kung Fu Panda, The Dark Knight, Inception, John Mayer, Killers). Coming from a 5 year old SVS pb12-isd, these are a huge step up. While I don't have any fancy graphs or waterfalls to show you all, they clearly sound different. From the first test tone that audyssey ran, I could tell there was a different character to the sound. Music sounds so much tighter, clearer with less boominess and overhang. Movies have deep deep bass that fills my 4000 cu ft. room with ease. Because everything sounds so much tighter, I was able to increase the subwoofer setting on my pre pro +3 decibels. If I ran my svs hot, it was good with movies but I always thought it was too boomy with music. Anyway, I'm going to buy the perfect bass kit soon and it should only make things better. This is very cliche', but this is one of the only upgrades my wife can actually notice a difference. I demoed some jl audio fathoms and these seem on par with them. I'm very pleased!

Well, I got my sub 12s today and spent the afternoon setting them up. After gain matching them and running them through Audyssey XT, I listened to some of my favorite music and demoed some movie scenes and music blu rays (Avatar, Kung Fu Panda, The Dark Knight, Inception, John Mayer, Killers). Coming from a 5 year old SVS pb12-isd, these are a huge step up. While I don't have any fancy graphs or waterfalls to show you all, they clearly sound different. From the first test tone that audyssey ran, I could tell there was a different character to the sound. Music sounds so much tighter, clearer with less boominess and overhang. Movies have deep deep bass that fills my 4000 cu ft. room with ease. Because everything sounds so much tighter, I was able to increase the subwoofer setting on my pre pro +3 decibels. If I ran my svs hot, it was good with movies but I always thought it was too boomy with music. Anyway, I'm going to buy the perfect bass kit soon and it should only make things better. This is very cliche', but this is one of the only upgrades my wife can actually notice a difference. I demoed some jl audio fathoms and these seem on par with them. I'm very pleased!

I am very happy for you....have one sub12 right now and planning on a second one..im glad you posted your impression...only one right now is impressing me!...could you tell me cause im a lazy ass...how much is 4000cu ft...in the right terms..you know....10'x10'x10'...lol..thx.

I am very happy for you....have one sub12 right now and planning on a second one..im glad you posted your impression...only one right now is impressing me!...could you tell me cause im a lazy ass...how much is 4000cu ft...in the right terms..you know....10'x10'x10'...lol..thx.

10x10x10 would be ~1000^3....;)

I am very happy for you....have one sub12 right now and planning on a second one..im glad you posted your impression...only one right now is impressing me!...could you tell me cause im a lazy ass...how much is 4000cu ft...in the right terms..you know....10'x10'x10'...lol..thx.

For reference, my room is 17'x27'x9'. I usually listen to movies between -15 to -12 and there is plenty of bass for me.

10x10x10 would be ~1000^3....;)

Got it lol...

For reference, my room is 17'x27'x9'. I usually listen to movies between -15 to -12 and there is plenty of bass for me.

thx...enjoy those lil beast now....:)

This is very cliche', but this is one of the only upgrades my wife can actually notice a difference.

LOL when I bought my Sub 12 my wife commented on the difference she noticed after only 5 minutes into one of the kids favourite movies...and that was fresh out of the box with no PBK. !! She also commented right away when I hooked up my new Studio 40's and played a track from one of her CDs.

Well, I got my sub 12s today and spent the afternoon setting them up. After gain matching them and running them through Audyssey XT, I listened to some of my favorite music and demoed some movie scenes and music blu rays (Avatar, Kung Fu Panda, The Dark Knight, Inception, John Mayer, Killers). Coming from a 5 year old SVS pb12-isd, these are a huge step up. While I don't have any fancy graphs or waterfalls to show you all, they clearly sound different. From the first test tone that audyssey ran, I could tell there was a different character to the sound. Music sounds so much tighter, clearer with less boominess and overhang. Movies have deep deep bass that fills my 4000 cu ft. room with ease. Because everything sounds so much tighter, I was able to increase the subwoofer setting on my pre pro +3 decibels. If I ran my svs hot, it was good with movies but I always thought it was too boomy with music. Anyway, I'm going to buy the perfect bass kit soon and it should only make things better. This is very cliche', but this is one of the only upgrades my wife can actually notice a difference. I demoed some jl audio fathoms and these seem on par with them. I'm very pleased!

Excellent. Glad they impress you in that relatively large room.
You got them for a steal too. You paid close to what ID companies are selling their similar subs for.

Got the message at home my subs are in. Getting them the day after I get back. If I didn't have this stuff to come home to, I might not want to leave Maui. It is just way too perfect on the beach here. Nobody is in a hurry.
We truly are on Island time!:D:cool:

So whats going on here buddy.....

How are the new toys...? Post up some pics....

A week tomorrow and I'll display some rose nut madness. Can't wait to see how these blend with my well-powered studio 100's. They are quite impressive speakers in the bass department with 300w on tap, but these sub 12's should bring some real presence and slam to music. Obviously, for HT, they have high expectations to transform the experience.

A week tomorrow and I'll display some rose nut madness. Can't wait to see how these blend with my well-powered studio 100's. They are quite impressive speakers in the bass department with 300w on tap, but these sub 12's should bring some real presence and slam to music. Obviously, for HT, they have high expectations to transform the experience.

You are going to love those Sub 12s. And the rosenut finish is very easy on the eyes !

You are going to love those Sub 12s. And the rosenut finish is very easy on the eyes !

I have a Sub-12 coming Monday from my local dealer after a bad experience with 6ave. I'll post photo's after I'm set up.....just added Studio 60's and CC-590 yesterday.
I have a question though........my family room opens at one end, up two steps to the kitchen and then on to the dining room. That's a ton of open air. For those who have done it, would PBK calibration adjust sub performance to be equal of that in an enclosed room?

IFor those who have done it, would PBK calibration adjust sub performance to be equal of that in an enclosed room?

Nope. PBK does not increase output, it adjusts sound quality

Hey all. I currently have a setup consisting of SE1 fronts (thinking of going to the SE3 and expanding to a 7.1 setup), a SE Center, and Atom v.6 for surrounds. My current sub with this setup is the SE Sub. I am wondering if a Sub 12 would be overkill for my system. I am happy with the sound quality of the SE Sub, but am thinking I could use more lower end punch to get that visceral HT experience, but I don't want to be completely out of whack with the rest of the setup. Any thoughts?

Nope. PBK does not increase output, it adjusts sound quality

Well I like that answer........I want the best sound quality I can get. The system is loud enough, I just want it to be accurate and as good as it can be. To be honest, I know I'm losing something in acoustics in a three walled room....but I don't know what it is I'm losing. Is it accuracy, oomph from the sub, dynamics? So, the PBK calibration may be a good choice. The problem is the price. If my dealer was smart he'd rent the PBK thing out to clients.....Paradigm would probably have him killed.

Well I like that answer........I want the best sound quality I can get. The system is loud enough, I just want it to be accurate and as good as it can be. To be honest, I know I'm losing something in acoustics in a three walled room....but I don't know what it is I'm losing. Is it accuracy, oomph from the sub, dynamics? So, the PBK calibration may be a good choice. The problem is the price. If my dealer was smart he'd rent the PBK thing out to clients.....Paradigm would probably have him killed.

If you're patient you can always look for a PBK on Audiogon or the Canuck Audio Mart. I picked one up in December for 50% of what I was quoted when I bought my sub. It makes a big difference though so you won't be disappointed with the results.

Well I like that answer........I want the best sound quality I can get. The system is loud enough, I just want it to be accurate and as good as it can be. To be honest, I know I'm losing something in acoustics in a three walled room....but I don't know what it is I'm losing. Is it accuracy, oomph from the sub, dynamics? So, the PBK calibration may be a good choice. The problem is the price. If my dealer was smart he'd rent the PBK thing out to clients.....Paradigm would probably have him killed.

Because bass sound travels everywhere and in all directions equally, your open space will cause the bass to have less tactile feel in your room. So you won't get as much kick when that loud explosions are played. The sub has to work harder to fill that open space

What the PBK does is even out the sound quality where you are sitting. Bass travels in waves and there are parts of the room where the waves are stronger (just like the sea waves are strong when it crashes around). With the PBK, you can use it to measure where the frequencies are uneven where you are sitting, and the software will equalize the sound so you get an accurate sense of tonality. So with it, a very low bass note will not drown out a slight higher pitch bass note, you'll hear both notes at the right level. That means you'll hear every bass note more clearly

Bascally the PBK adjusts the sound so what you are hearing is what you are supposed to hear. It's not going to cure any acoustically problems, it just does its best to give you the best sound possible for your particular room. Of course, if you have a room that has good acoustics, PBK will be able to even get better results for you.

I'm kind of simplifying things, but basically it's like having an audio engineer come in a tweak the frequency controls of the system with very high precision.

I have a Sub-12 coming Monday from my local dealer after a bad experience with 6ave. I'll post photo's after I'm set up.....just added Studio 60's and CC-590 yesterday.
I have a question though........my family room opens at one end, up two steps to the kitchen and then on to the dining room. That's a ton of open air. For those who have done it, would PBK calibration adjust sub performance to be equal of that in an enclosed room?

Any updates? Hopefully you are too busy using it!!!!!
3 more sleeps until I get my pair. Gonna be a great week-end.

Hey all. I currently have a setup consisting of SE1 fronts (thinking of going to the SE3 and expanding to a 7.1 setup), a SE Center, and Atom v.6 for surrounds. My current sub with this setup is the SE Sub. I am wondering if a Sub 12 would be overkill for my system. I am happy with the sound quality of the SE Sub, but am thinking I could use more lower end punch to get that visceral HT experience, but I don't want to be completely out of whack with the rest of the setup. Any thoughts?

I don't think it would be out of whack, just a whole bunch better. Just set your crossover at 80hz, or 100 if it's available on your receiver.
The sub 12 will be a huge step in performance. The SE sub is very nice looking, but isn't built in the same league as the the studio subs. It sounds like it's just what you want.

Any updates? Hopefully you are too busy using it!!!!!
3 more sleeps until I get my pair. Gonna be a great week-end.

Yeah Uno, thanks. I got the sub on Monday and had a buddy of mine come over and help me set-up. He's a Paradigm owner as well (Sig's and Servo sub-big system). We spent some time listening, moving the sub, listening, moving....he has enlightened me as to how the bass should really sound.
The big difference in the step up to the Studio's from the Monitor's is the soundstage. Now I know what people mean when they discuss that. I do hear things I didn't hear before and dialogue is sooo much better. The bass is cleaner, tighter, and less 'boomy' than the DSP-3400 I had. Part of that though is that the Sub-12 is now more away from the corner of the room than the 3400 was. I wasn't using the 3400 correctly.
Last night was the first night I had to just sit and take this system for a spin. I watched 'Night and Day' the Cruise/Diaz movie. Nice balance of dialogue and action to compare and enjoy. I tweaked the sub volume just a hair but all in all I am very, very happy. I can't imagine a system with TWO sub-12's......just awesome. The Sub-12 is a pitbull-love it.....and expect it to sound better after break-in.
I will post picture next week because I would like more comments about my three walled room. I'm sure many people have the same room acoustic challenge I have and I want to squeeze as much good sound as I can out of this arrangement. I'd love to get my hands on a used PBK to calibrate this sub.
The Rosenut finish is just beautiful-I was a coat of paint shy of getting the Cherry.

Can't sleep, too damn excited!
Could also be the red-eye from Maui I guess. 2 hours of "moderate" turbulence keeps a guy from sleeping.
Subs will be here around 1pm, post pics and first impressions around supper time I suppose.

Well, the pics are crap, I'll take more later. I was in a hurry, wanted to crank it up!!
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/9bells/IMG_9490.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/9bells/IMG_9491.jpg

The subs are ridiculous. The blend on music with the 100's is amazing, and for HT they absolutely dominate the room, without any rattles. I'm going to get the guys to e-mail me the graphs, they were shocked at how good they were.
The placement has a little gain at 20hz, but almost perfectly flat to 200.
Watching Fifth Element right now, sounds great. There is no bloat, no slowing, and the bass has buttery layers to it and crazy headroom in my little 1700ft3 room.
More later...

Well, the pics are crap, I'll take more later. I was in a hurry, wanted to crank it up!!
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/9bells/IMG_9490.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/9bells/IMG_9491.jpg

The subs are ridiculous. The blend on music with the 100's is amazing, and for HT they absolutely dominate the room, without any rattles. I'm going to get the guys to e-mail me the graphs, they were shocked at how good they were.
The placement has a little gain at 20hz, but almost perfectly flat to 200.
Watching Fifth Element right now, sounds great. There is no bloat, no slowing, and the bass has buttery layers to it and crazy headroom in my little 1700ft3 room.
More later...

Congrats on the Sub 12s. Just wait until they are broken in - you'll be amazed.

Broken in? I have hundreds of hours on my Sub 12 and it sounds no different than day 1 - always just right. The Sub 12 replaced a SVS PB12 Ultra - can't beat the PBK.

Yeah, PBK is a great tool. Real easy to do, and the subs sound great.
The sense of slam is impressive. Seems like I just have killer speakers on music, and for HT the bass fills the room.
The break-in I think is pretty short on a simple 1 driver deal like this. Watched Titan AE right after Dark Knight, and I turned the gain down a hair from 1/2 way. Seems fine now.
Upped the x-over to 100hz, seems like a better setting. The Eagles DVD didn't give the center any trouble with the higher x-over.
Had them running all day since 1:15, so 11 hours.
The HT is really tactile, with the bass rolling through the floor. When the frequency varies, the floor shakes in seemingly different spots. Kinda cool.
We upgraded to 10 lb underlay when we built, and there is 9" of spray foam under the floor, so it isn't the same rattling tactile feel as it was when I had the system years ago on a main floor hardwood surface with open joists over the laundry room. That got annoying, where this is quite different.

Uno, quick question: what do you notice by changing the crossover to 100hz?

is there a sonic benifit to placing the subs like this (the abive pics)? i also plan on 2 Sub 12's but figured i'd just place them a few feet apart. i was so into the placement of the rest of the speakers when designing my basement, i never thought much about the sub.

is there a sonic benifit to placing the subs like this (the abive pics)? i also plan on 2 Sub 12's but figured i'd just place them a few feet apart. i was so into the placement of the rest of the speakers when designing my basement, i never thought much about the sub.

If you place the subs together, they act like one sub and you get the most output, but if you place them apart, they act like two subs and you get a more even output quality through the room. Because bass waves are very large, there are often areas where the bass is weaker throughout the room, and having a second sub fills in those voids. Quite often, people will place subs at opposite ends or corners of a room to get the best bass quality

If you place the subs together, they act like one sub and you get the most output, but if you place them apart, they act like two subs and you get a more even output quality through the room. Because bass waves are very large, there are often areas where the bass is weaker throughout the room, and having a second sub fills in those voids. Quite often, people will place subs at opposite ends or corners of a room to get the best bass quality

i would like the better quality but in a 29'x25'x9' room, would it be better to keep them together? i'm going 7.1 with 100's, 690, ADP590 and 20's with twin Sub 12's. the entire roon is packed with insulation, soundboard and drywall.

what do you think?

i would like the better quality but in a 29'x25'x9' room, would it be better to keep them together? i'm going 7.1 with 100's, 690, ADP590 and 20's with twin Sub 12's. the entire roon is packed with insulation, soundboard and drywall.

what do you think?


It's trial end error, but I would bet that you will get better response with one at each end of your room.

I Have a DSP3200 and a DSP3400 that i would like to trade in for a sub 12!!! Do you all think that would be a big step up ????? And what price do ya think i should get for my 2 Subs USA $$$$$

i would like the better quality but in a 29'x25'x9' room, would it be better to keep them together? i'm going 7.1 with 100's, 690, ADP590 and 20's with twin Sub 12's. the entire roon is packed with insulation, soundboard and drywall.

what do you think?

It's trial end error, but I would bet that you will get better response with one at each end of your room.

I agree, it's trial and error. The difference in output may be a couple of dB more when you co-locate them as opposed to keeping them apart, so it's not a big difference. It depends on how hard you run them. But the difference in sound quality can be quite noticeable when you keep them apart.

Here is one setup guide that offers some suggestions, and how-to

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/multiple-subwoofer-setup-calibration-1

thanks for the info and the link fellas.......i think i'll re-route 1 of my XLR cables tonight!

Broken in? I have hundreds of hours on my Sub 12 and it sounds no different than day 1 - always just right. The Sub 12 replaced a SVS PB12 Ultra - can't beat the PBK.

Both the DSP 3200 I purchased in the fall of '09 and the Sub 12 I purchased last fall seemed to open up, compared to their performance right out of the box, after 4 weeks or so. It was almost like listening to an entirely differently sub. After PBKing the Sub 12 it again seemed to be an entirely different sub.

I Have a DSP3200 and a DSP3400 that i would like to trade in for a sub 12!!! Do you all think that would be a big step up ????? And what price do ya think i should get for my 2 Subs USA $$$$$

I just traded in the 3400 for the Sub-12. Just do it. Take what you can get in a trade in and don't look back.
Set it up, and then pop in the BluRay 'Let Me In', and feel that opening bass drive in the first 2 minutes of the movie.
It's a great sequence to use to play with sub settings and placement.

I just traded in the 3400 for the Sub-12. Just do it. Take what you can get in a trade in and don't look back.
Set it up, and then pop in the BluRay 'Let Me In', and feel that opening bass drive in the first 2 minutes of the movie.
It's a great sequence to use to play with sub settings and placement.

So keep the 3200?

So keep the 3200?

Sorry I was a little fast with my reply. I was by his shop today he told me 1100 with my trade in of the 3200 and 3400

Sorry I was a little fast with my reply. I was by his shop today he told me 1100 with my trade in of the 3200 and 3400

That's a good deal. Now, you can also afford the PBK-1 to calibrate your new Sub-12, and then let me borrow it for counseling you in your time of crisis. We ALL go through this, and then it's-should I move the sub three inches toward the corner so it sounds thousands of dollars better than what I bought it for??
Just trying to help.

Oh, by the way.....I'm CytoM on my other computer. And that computer isn't at work, and if it was I would only use it on my breaks or at lunch. I swear.....

That's a good deal. Now, you can also afford the PBK-1 to calibrate your new Sub-12, and then let me borrow it for counseling you in your time of crisis. We ALL go through this, and then it's-should I move the sub three inches toward the corner so it sounds thousands of dollars better than what I bought it for??
Just trying to help.

I alleardy have the PBK-1 so if you would like to i can let you use it you would just have:D:cool::p to come get it

I think you got a GREAT deal on your trade in. Good for you......
Let us know how the PBK works for you.

I think you got a GREAT deal on your trade in. Good for you......
Let us know how the PBK works for you.

Loved what it did for the 2 dsp subs

:mad:Paradigm....
Anyway, crossing the subs over higher really brought the mid-bass up a notch.
The sub is superior to the studio 100 in producing bass in the 15-150hz area to my ears.
So, yesterday, RH sub fires up with a load thud, very loud. LH one fires up as usual with a barely audible clack. Walk away and the RH sub does the thud loud again,. Hmm. Gotta make breky for the little one so I continue walking away.
2 mins later another loud thud. Run upstairs, unplug it. Plug it back in. It comes on after about 30 seconds(music is playing already) with the regular clack.
Phone dealer. They will call back when somebody is available.
I also discover that the dealer ran PBK with the x-over at 80hz, and phase at 90. Sub worked the rest of the day admirably.
Basically all dials at 12. I was there when they did it, and heard the one guy tell the guy at the subs to set x-over at max, and phase at 0. Guy on the phone at the dealer says it doesn't matter when the USB is in. Ok, don't know, but the graph went well above 80hz, so maybe.
Anyway, go to fire it up today, the loud thud goes on and off again, then the sub dies. No nothing.
I am unduly impatient with this kind of thing as I am an instructor during the day,and fabricator the rest of the time. Both ends of my day rely 100% on being able to display exceptional skill, and customer service at the highest level.
Needless to say I'm not happy, and the dealer is in no rush to even call me back. Gonna be calling again, as it is completely dead. Tried new cables, everything I can think of.
Seems I was unlucky enough to find another lemon sub from PD.
At least I bought 2. Not sure if I should call Paradigm at all, judging from the sub2 thread.

Looking for advice on selecting the proper sub(s) for my system. Currently I have Studio 100's v5 and CC 690 v5 driven Parasound amps and an old Velodyne F1500. My room is approximately 5300 ft^3 with a opening to the upstairs and a 9 1/2 foot ceiling. So the question is to go with 1 Sub 15, 2 Sub 12's or 2 Sub 15's or ???? The budget will allow for the single 15 or possibly the dual 12's right now. The dual 15's would have to come one at a time. The thing I don't know is whether the single 15 or dual 12's can adequately fill that space and I can just stop there. How does one match a sub system to the volume of the room? My heart says more is better :), I would just like to be able justify it in my mind and pocket book. Oh yeah, I like to turn it up loud every now and then....

that's a huge space to fill but I would start with 1 Sub15, with the option of adding another at a later date. I always buy the most bass extension I can get first, and then add N subs to fill the output need. If you start with 2 sub12, you may meet your output needs but you can't add more bass extension after. You are then stuck with the less deep bass of the sub12

:mad:Paradigm....
Anyway, crossing the subs over higher really brought the mid-bass up a notch.
The sub is superior to the studio 100 in producing bass in the 15-150hz area to my ears.
So, yesterday, RH sub fires up with a load thud, very loud. LH one fires up as usual with a barely audible clack. Walk away and the RH sub does the thud loud again,. Hmm. Gotta make breky for the little one so I continue walking away.
2 mins later another loud thud. Run upstairs, unplug it. Plug it back in. It comes on after about 30 seconds(music is playing already) with the regular clack.
Phone dealer. They will call back when somebody is available.
I also discover that the dealer ran PBK with the x-over at 80hz, and phase at 90. Sub worked the rest of the day admirably.
Basically all dials at 12. I was there when they did it, and heard the one guy tell the guy at the subs to set x-over at max, and phase at 0. Guy on the phone at the dealer says it doesn't matter when the USB is in. Ok, don't know, but the graph went well above 80hz, so maybe.
Anyway, go to fire it up today, the loud thud goes on and off again, then the sub dies. No nothing.
I am unduly impatient with this kind of thing as I am an instructor during the day,and fabricator the rest of the time. Both ends of my day rely 100% on being able to display exceptional skill, and customer service at the highest level.
Needless to say I'm not happy, and the dealer is in no rush to even call me back. Gonna be calling again, as it is completely dead. Tried new cables, everything I can think of.
Seems I was unlucky enough to find another lemon sub from PD.
At least I bought 2. Not sure if I should call Paradigm at all, judging from the sub2 thread.


That sucks. I had to replace an amp in one of mine. My dealer was awesome though. I brought him the amp and had a new one the next day. What a pain in the ass taking it out.

I would call Paradigm if your dealer doesn't get right back to you.

That sucks. I had to replace an amp in one of mine. My dealer was awesome though. I brought him the amp and had a new one the next day. What a pain in the ass taking it out.

I would call Paradigm if your dealer doesn't get right back to you.

They got the amp on order. Don't rightly know when it will arrive though.
I voluntold them to switch it out here at the house. Trying not to think about it much. Got lots to do these days. The little one keeps me occupied every other minute.

Anybody have a Sub 15 and PBK around Calgary?
I'd love to host a test where we put both in the same spot in my room, both PBK'd, and do some testing. It would serve to show what the extra $900 gets you in terms of output.
I'm cranking up just the single 12, and it is quite impressive. I would say that it is superior to the PW2200 in output, as well as the obvious SQ.
Gonna get some test tones onto the IPod sometime soon and do some tests on response and output.

that's a huge space to fill but I would start with 1 Sub15, with the option of adding another at a later date. I always buy the most bass extension I can get first, and then add N subs to fill the output need. If you start with 2 sub12, you may meet your output needs but you can't add more bass extension after. You are then stuck with the less deep bass of the sub12
I purchased a SUB 15 and used the PBK over the weekend and I love it. Still might do two someday, but right now it was a huge improvement over my Velodyne that was long in the tooth.

The replacement amp is still nowhere in sight for my sub.
I keep abusing the snot out of this sub, and I can't get it to bottom or wimper.
The gain is only at the halfway point, but the AVR sunlit level is 0, and the pioneer is at +4. It really punches up there, and seems to have no trouble going higher for peaks.
Been playing with the x-over and have settled at 80. It seems to give more output for music in that critical 30-80 range than the 150 setting did.
Surprisingly I found Natalie Merchant's Ophelia disc, and Annie Lennox's Diva to have some very clean and heavy bass scores, with more dynamic range than the newer stuff. I suspect this range is what allowed the sub and speakers combined to play so loud. It's more like a burst in a movie, than the almost constant bass of the likes of Daft Punk.
I am not real happy that getting an amp across 4 provinces with no border issues, takes longer than my Emotiva did.
I am also going to move the Emotiva down so I can see the front. I was watching the other day, and I didn't see any warning colours indicating clipping, but It was pretty tough to enjoy the music where my head was to do so!
When I get the second one back I'll do some test tones and plot a graph of my in room response. I would wager that the under 20hz is seeing some gain also.
Watching unstoppable last night at a reasonable volume was causing the bedroom windows next to the TV room to hummm, but I really didn't notice a bunch of audible bass in the soundtrack. Great movie. So damn tense that it felt like 20 mins had gone by when it was over.

I am borrowing a Sub12 until I can get a Sub 2. This is my first Sub for my HT so I am not sure exactly what to expect but I can say that I am not really that impressed. Now, it may be the placement, it may be the room, it could be anything. I had 2 subs in my car 10 years ago. One 12" and one 15" and I remember being able to really feel and hear them (Believe it or not, I didn't listen to any rap, hip hop, etc... I listen to mostly Metal, Classic Rock and some newer rock). I don't have a PBK but I did use ARC. I didn't screenshot my results because I was running out of time but I can tell you that because this is a temp sub I am not playing with positions and moving it around the room. I have limited placement options especially when I get the Sub 2. Because of the size of my TV and speakers, I don't have much room to put it in the front. The Sub 12 fit but it's close to the wall on the left side with about 10 - 12 inches behind it. I can't put it on the right side because I have a bathroom there and it will block the door. I am toying with putting it inbetween the corner I have where my couch ends and my futon ends right by an end table.

I am borrowing a Sub12 until I can get a Sub 2. This is my first Sub for my HT so I am not sure exactly what to expect but I can say that I am not really that impressed. Now, it may be the placement, it may be the room, it could be anything. I had 2 subs in my car 10 years ago. One 12" and one 15" and I remember being able to really feel and hear them (Believe it or not, I didn't listen to any rap, hip hop, etc... I listen to mostly Metal, Classic Rock and some newer rock). I don't have a PBK but I did use ARC. I didn't screenshot my results because I was running out of time but I can tell you that because this is a temp sub I am not playing with positions and moving it around the room. I have limited placement options especially when I get the Sub 2. Because of the size of my TV and speakers, I don't have much room to put it in the front. The Sub 12 fit but it's close to the wall on the left side with about 10 - 12 inches behind it. I can't put it on the right side because I have a bathroom there and it will block the door. I am toying with putting it inbetween the corner I have where my couch ends and my futon ends right by an end table.

Comparing a single 12" in a room to the performance of a 12" and a 15" inside a car will be very dissapointing indeed.
I would say that the sub is an excellent performer, but in a large room 2 is for sure a must. The Sub 2 should be considerably louder and lower.
I would wager 6-10dB louder across the frequency range as a minimum.
It has over double the power, and 4.5 times the surface area radiating into the room. I assume the excursion numbers are close, but that is still a huge difference. It had better be for the price. I do assume however that a better discount is to be had on the Sub 2 than the 12 though.
It would be interesting to see how 4 sub 12's would do, as it would be cheaper. Maybe 4 sub 15's is a better comparison. That would take up a bunch of real estate though. It sounds like that was the major motivator of your purchase. Hope the Sub 2 gets to you soon.

Comparing a single 12" in a room to the performance of a 12" and a 15" inside a car will be very dissapointing indeed.
I would say that the sub is an excellent performer, but in a large room 2 is for sure a must. The Sub 2 should be considerably louder and lower.
I would wager 6-10dB louder across the frequency range as a minimum.
It has over double the power, and 4.5 times the surface area radiating into the room. I assume the excursion numbers are close, but that is still a huge difference. It had better be for the price. I do assume however that a better discount is to be had on the Sub 2 than the 12 though.
It would be interesting to see how 4 sub 12's would do, as it would be cheaper. Maybe 4 sub 15's is a better comparison. That would take up a bunch of real estate though. It sounds like that was the major motivator of your purchase. Hope the Sub 2 gets to you soon.


I agree you can't compare so that is why I am not sure what to expect. I can tell you thought that when I had the subs in the car I wasn't running 100s of watts. I actually had a smaller Rockford 30wpc amp that was just right for what I was looking for and needed.

I wish I had more room to work with but I don't. I could put one in the front of the room on the left and one of the right of the room after the door of the bathroom which would be like 7 - 8 feet closer to the couch. I could also put one in the back corner left but the back corner right is open to the entry way of my house. My goal (and not in this house) is to have the Sub 2 and maybe a second Sub 2 when I have a bigger room that is more sealed and has better acoustics. I have been toying with just getting a Sub 25. I think 2 Sub 25s would be just a little more than 1 Sub 2 with the pricing I got. Man, if they would only make a Sub 3 with 6 - 12" woofers or if I was handy enough to actually build something like I saw in one of the other threads with dual opposing 18"s. I have a hard enough time changing my oil!!!!!

I agree you can't compare so that is why I am not sure what to expect. I can tell you thought that when I had the subs in the car I wasn't running 100s of watts. I actually had a smaller Rockford 30wpc amp that was just right for what I was looking for and needed.

I wish I had more room to work with but I don't. I could put one in the front of the room on the left and one of the right of the room after the door of the bathroom which would be like 7 - 8 feet closer to the couch. I could also put one in the back corner left but the back corner right is open to the entry way of my house. My goal (and not in this house) is to have the Sub 2 and maybe a second Sub 2 when I have a bigger room that is more sealed and has better acoustics. I have been toying with just getting a Sub 25. I think 2 Sub 25s would be just a little more than 1 Sub 2 with the pricing I got. Man, if they would only make a Sub 3 with 6 - 12" woofers or if I was handy enough to actually build something like I saw in one of the other threads with dual opposing 18"s. I have a hard enough time changing my oil!!!!!

2 sub 2's should have good response even in a larger room. I just have not seen any tests of any of the Paradigm subs according to the new CEA methods. Hopefully soon. If you wanted dual opposing 18's, look into Funky Waves. Pretty sure he could build you something smaller with duals, and his finishes are beautiful.

Just got my Sub 12, and love it. PBK'd it, and love it even more. Just wondering if i want someone to look at the graph to see if there is room for improvement or if it is perfect, where can i post that? Also, how do i post that??

Thanks

Just got my Sub 12, and love it. PBK'd it, and love it even more. Just wondering if i want someone to look at the graph to see if there is room for improvement or if it is perfect, where can i post that? Also, how do i post that??

Thanks

Take a screenshot of the graph.
Host the screenshot on the Internet. I use http://www.imageshack.us/
Copy/paste the link imageshack provides onto your post in this thread.

Dealer finally came to get the sub. Hopefully have it back tomorrow.
Then crank on it again...:D

Hello, i recently got a Sub 12 with the Perfect bass kit. I ran the PBK, and everything went fine. However, i dont notice much bass at all. My last sub was a velodyne 10" with like ALOT less power and it seemed better. Can anyone help me out? As an example, i was watching U-571, and the scene near the end with all the explosion under water, i wasnt impressed at all. Actually very upset. There seemed to be no bass.

In case it matters, i did use my Yamaha's YPAO system after the PBK was done. I dont know if that effected anything. I can post the PBK diagram, but i dont know how to.

Any help is appreciated,

Thanks

The first time I used it I noticed the same thing almost no bass at my seat but lots about 5' out from the screen so I moved my sub to the other side of my center ran PBK again and it sounds awesome now. I have not run it in my second theater room/showroom yet might take awhile I have 4 Sub12's in there.

Hey Tooley, thanks. Quick question, on the back of the sub or subs as it seems, what notch do you have the gain set to and what do you have it to on your receiver?

The room with 1 Sub 12 it is just past 12 o'clock and receiver is 0
The room with 4 front subs are are about 11 o'clock and the rears are about 9 o'clock receiver 0 all sub are set at 75 db from my seat ( sweet spot).

Has anyone in here compared a sub 12 or 15 to a ULS-15? Is it fair to say the output on the ULS is equal to either one of these subs?

Has anyone in here compared a sub 12 or 15 to a ULS-15? Is it fair to say the output on the ULS is equal to either one of these subs?

I would wager that the ULS fits somewhere in between output wise. The Sub 15 has a larger cabinet and more power...

so my Studio 100's, 690 and ADP590's are being delivered Friday. i plan on Studio 10's or 20's in the rears for my 25x29x9 basement. i was planing on saving for twin Sub 12's or maybe even twin Sub 15's if possible. but while browsing on Audiogon/Videogon is see Rosenut twin Servo 15a's for sale.

i'm wondering about the matching up to my V5 Studio setup and the Rosenut matchup.........any thoughts or personal experience?

and i believe i read on page 3 that the PBK will not work on anything earlier that the Sub ** series.......correct?

so my Studio 100's, 690 and ADP590's are being delivered Friday. i plan on Studio 10's or 20's in the rears for my 25x29x9 basement. i was planing on saving for twin Sub 12's or maybe even twin Sub 15's if possible. but while browsing on Audiogon/Videogon is see Rosenut twin Servo 15a's for sale.

i'm wondering about the matching up to my V5 Studio setup and the Rosenut matchup.........any thoughts or personal experience?

and i believe i read on page 3 that the PBK will not work on anything earlier that the Sub ** series.......correct?

I own the Sub 15 and previously owned the Servo 15. The Servo 15 is a fine sub but keep in mind those are likely 5+ years old. I also feel like the newer Sub 15 digs deeper and is a better overall sub. Just my 2 cents.

so my Studio 100's, 690 and ADP590's are being delivered Friday. i plan on Studio 10's or 20's in the rears for my 25x29x9 basement. i was planing on saving for twin Sub 12's or maybe even twin Sub 15's if possible. but while browsing on Audiogon/Videogon is see Rosenut twin Servo 15a's for sale.

i'm wondering about the matching up to my V5 Studio setup and the Rosenut matchup.........any thoughts or personal experience?

and i believe i read on page 3 that the PBK will not work on anything earlier that the Sub ** series.......correct?

I own 2 Servo 15a's myself as well as a Sub 25 and the Servos are fine subs indeed, they definitely hold their own. You are correct, you can not use PBK on the Servo's.

thanks for the input, hope to here some more.

i figured a dual Sub 15 or a Sub 25 setup would be better, but i was curious about any benefit to dual Sub 12's vs dual Servo 15a's.........i guess it's coming down to price for me. wife went nuts when i bought the 100's, 690 and 590's. then when i told her 2 subs and 2 rears were needed, i thought we were headed for divorce court! lol....

2 Servo cons are, i like the PBK option with the newer setup and i think he has the Servos priced high........only Sub 15 or 12 con is price! :(

so my Studio 100's, 690 and ADP590's are being delivered Friday. i plan on Studio 10's or 20's in the rears for my 25x29x9 basement. i was planing on saving for twin Sub 12's or maybe even twin Sub 15's if possible. but while browsing on Audiogon/Videogon is see Rosenut twin Servo 15a's for sale.

i'm wondering about the matching up to my V5 Studio setup and the Rosenut matchup.........any thoughts or personal experience?

and i believe i read on page 3 that the PBK will not work on anything earlier that the Sub ** series.......correct?
My listening area is about the same size as yours. I have the 100's, 690 as well with a Sub 15 (just added), but went for the 60's on the rear surrounds. My listening area is in the middle of the five speakers and the sound is absolutely killer. I play about 80 percent music now because it sounds so good and I am rediscovering my collection. The price between the 60's and the 20's on stands was too close to just not upgrade. I first battled 590s versus 20's in the rear, once I decided direct radiating for DVD-A and SACD, I started to think hard about the 60's. They stand pretty tall and balance very nicely with the 100's up front. I am glad I did it and won't be wishing I had. I do plan on adding 590's for side surrounds when my bank account recovers.

thanks for the input, hope to here some more.

i figured a dual Sub 15 or a Sub 25 setup would be better, but i was curious about any benefit to dual Sub 12's vs dual Servo 15a's.........i guess it's coming down to price for me. wife went nuts when i bought the 100's, 690 and 590's. then when i told her 2 subs and 2 rears were needed, i thought we were headed for divorce court! lol....

2 Servo cons are, i like the PBK option with the newer setup and i think he has the Servos priced high........only Sub 15 or 12 con is price! :(
In addition to the 590's for the sides, I plan on adding one more Sub 15. The first one, PBK's was a huge improvement over my old Velodyne F1500. Tight, deep and seamless. I would go for 1 Sub 15 and add the second later. I figure this is an investment I plan on keeping for years to come, might as well do it right. I am just glad a didn't listen to the S-8's and family to start with.

In addition to the 590's for the sides, I plan on adding one more Sub 15. The first one, PBK's was a huge improvement over my old Velodyne F1500. Tight, deep and seamless. I would go for 1 Sub 15 and add the second later. I figure this is an investment I plan on keeping for years to come, might as well do it right. I am just glad a didn't listen to the S-8's and family to start with.

i'm with ya there! once i heard the 100's, that was it for me.....thank god they didn't have the Sigs. sad thing is i went to listen to the B&W 6xx series. before it was all done, i couldn't settle for less than the 100's!

well, i really like your idea about 1 Sub 15 at a time. i'm not against used either so long as they are prestine. so if anyone here has a Rosenut Sub 15 (or 2) for sale, please pm me!

Yes, this is probably pitiful to those of you that follow subwoofers carefully. I am "back in the game" of sub hunting and when I left off, I was tracking the Paradigm Seismic 12. It spec'd out as a very nice performer...so is it gone now? Then there is the Sub 12 ? How would it compare in performance? So is the Seismic 12 being marketed under the Studio/Reference series?
Thanks for any advice...so many models. I tend to prefer the "sealed" subs.

Yes, this is probably pitiful to those of you that follow subwoofers carefully. I am "back in the game" of sub hunting and when I left off, I was tracking the Paradigm Seismic 12. It spec'd out as a very nice performer...so is it gone now? Then there is the Sub 12 ? How would it compare in performance? So is the Seismic 12 being marketed under the Studio/Reference series?
Thanks for any advice...so many models. I tend to prefer the "sealed" subs.

Seismic 12 is discontinued. Sub 12/15 are the current Studio subs.
The Sub 12 should outperform the Seismic.

Seismic 12 is discontinued. Sub 12/15 are current the Studio subs.
The Sub 12 should outperform the Seismic.

Any idea of the m.s.r.p. on the Paradigm Sub 12 ? Just trying to get an idea.

$1900ish in Canada if you have a good relationship with your dealer you will get a way better price my 2 cost me $1583taxes in each.

Any idea of the m.s.r.p. on the Paradigm Sub 12 ? Just trying to get an idea.

Canadian MSRP is $2400 now. I think getting a 20-25% off discount is attainable

MSRP is $2400 now. I think getting a 20-25% off discount is attainable

i have 1 local dealer, and he won't do ANY discount on ANYTHING Paradigm. i keep searching for some great used equipment.......:rolleyes:

Yes, this is probably pitiful to those of you that follow subwoofers carefully. I am "back in the game" of sub hunting and when I left off, I was tracking the Paradigm Seismic 12. It spec'd out as a very nice performer...so is it gone now? Then there is the Sub 12 ? How would it compare in performance? So is the Seismic 12 being marketed under the Studio/Reference series?
Thanks for any advice...so many models. I tend to prefer the "sealed" subs.

just an fyi if you had your heart set on the Seismic 12, there's a NIB for sale in the classified thread of this site and i think there's one on AudioGon too.

Thanks for the info, guys, on the Sub 12, and possibilities on a Seismic 12. Sooooo, is it pretty much consensus that the "newer" Sub 12 is a superior product to the Seismic series? I'll just go Sub 12 if that is the case...apparently I can get it for just under $2K from what you guys are saying (my U.S. dealer usually gets me around 15% off on Paradigm). Right about now, I think the Canadian and U.S. $ have been running about even.

MSRP is $2400 now. I think getting a 20-25% off discount is attainable

I agree. A discount of 20-25% should be no problem.

apparently I can get it for just under $2K from what you guys are saying (my U.S. dealer usually gets me around 15% off on Paradigm). Right about now, I think the Canadian and U.S. $ have been running about even.

Actually the MSRP in USA is lower than Canada, I believe the Sub 12 is between $2000-2100 MSRP if I recall. Yes, we pay for in Canada for products that are made in our own country :(

Bradfords lists the Sub 12 for $2199 and the Sub 15 for $2999

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Anyone know how much piano black adds to the standard finish MSRP?

I thought I saw the Sub 12 on sale at th Avenue Electronics for $1200. However I just looked again and they are not available. Not sure if they are out of stock or they are not selling them anymore.

Bradfords lists the Sub 12 for $2199 and the Sub 15 for $2999

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Anyone know how much piano black adds to the standard finish MSRP?Sub12 in Piano Black is $2299.
Sub15 in PB is $3199.

Sub 2 in piano black $10,000

Is a sub2 really worth so much money? There are so many other sub solutions that I am sure could provide much better performance for that type of money.

I pay $7950 taxes in when I buy them I have 2 in one of my show rooms and it would be very hard to beat the performance I get from them.

i know this is not the thread for it but i just want to make this comment, i really dont think one sub 2 can out perform let's say 12 Epik empires at $8400, 8 ULS-15s at $8K or even 4 submersives at $9600 so i am guessing its a aesthetics thing when it comes to the sub2.

i know this is not the thread for it but i just want to make this comment, i really dont think one sub 2 can out perform let's say 12 Epik empires at $8400, 8 ULS-15s at $8K or even 4 submersives at $9600 so i am guessing its a aesthetics thing when it comes to the sub2.

Most people who are looking at the Sub 2 don't want to have 4-12 subs scattered about their room, the point of the Sub 2 is to have great sound with a lot of output in a small single box package.

The SUB 2 is a luxury item, not something from the 99¢ menu. Admit you want one.;)

:o you got me mb, i want one......rather i want 2 :eek:

Most people who are looking at the Sub 2 don't want to have 4-12 subs scattered about their room, the point of the Sub 2 is to have great sound with a lot of output in a small single box package.

i understand this fully but i have always agreed with Warpdrv on this one, when he says it is just ridiculously overpriced. He probably gets 3 times the performance with his beasts. it would definitely be good to hear all these great subs in one room at the same time.

Ordered four sub 12s in black piano gloss finish today. They will be shipped with boat, but I am also waiting for my Theta CB III HD to arrive which also seems to take a while so I guess patience is what I need right now...

Ordered four sub 12s in black piano gloss finish today. They will be shipped with boat, but I am also waiting for my Theta CB III HD to arrive which also seems to take a while so I guess patience is what I need right now...

Only four...everybody knows 5 is better :p

Only four...everybody knows 5 is better :p

I already have two subs, so the total will be 6 :D

I already have two subs, so the total will be 6 :D

Oh no...6 is one too many :)

Just kidding of course. Sounds like you are going to have a killer set-up...especially in the bass department.

Ladies and Gents,
I just got my SUB15 on Friday... WOW! First of all, let me just say Paradigm is a company on top of it's game. I was quoted a mid-April delivery due to the SUB15 being on backorder... It arrived almost 3 weeks early, and was PERFECT. The wood grain and the match to my Rosenut 100's and 690 is very, very close. Fit and finish is outstanding. They clearly take a lot of pride in their work.

This thing is a beast! Of course I got PBK with it as my room is somewhat challenging, and I knew I'd need it. I placed it in the same place as my old Definitive PF15 so I'd have something to compare it to. After a first run with PBK to get accustomed to it, I ran it a 2nd time "for real". The unequalized response curve shows a large bump between 22hz - 35hz and then a pretty big dip at 55hz, 85hz and 115hz. The final result, after applying the PBK EQ is a very slight bump at 22hz then dead flat to about 150hz. The PBK readout doesn't show below 20hz, but there is clearly strong output below 20.

I auditioned it Friday with some music first, and thought is was a little muddy sounding and not very well defined. I wasn't too worried at that point because I still had to fine tune it with the crossover and phase controls. I also thought I may see improvement as it breaks in. After several hours of letting it play, it started to show big improvements. I watched Transformers II: Revenge of the Fallen yesterday afternoon after about 12 hours total of music both Friday and Saturday morning.

I can't even describe how I felt watching that movie - one I've seen at least half a dozen times on my system. There were points in the movie where I just laughed out loud, where I was hearing and FEELING low-frequency information I've never heard or FELT before. One scene, is in the beginning where where the Autobot "Sideswipe" somersaults over the Audi R8 Decepticon before splitting it down the middle. There was very strong audible low bass output, but there was also output I've never FELT before. It was vibrating my chest. There are several scenes like this throughout the movie that sounded and felt the same way. It was, in a word, mindblowing! At the end of the movie I was giddy, but completely drained. The SUB15 made it feel like I was watching this movie for the very first time.

The SUB15 is the real deal. I couldn't be happier! :D

Ladies and Gents,
I just got my SUB15 on Friday... WOW! First of all, let me just say Paradigm is a company on top of it's game. I was quoted a mid-April delivery due to the SUB15 being on backorder... It arrived almost 3 weeks early, and was PERFECT. The wood grain and the match to my Rosenut 100's and 690 is very, very close. Fit and finish is outstanding. They clearly take a lot of pride in their work.

This thing is a beast! Of course I got PBK with it as my room is somewhat challenging, and I knew I'd need it. I placed it in the same place as my old Definitive PF15 so I'd have something to compare it to. After a first run with PBK to get accustomed to it, I ran it a 2nd time "for real". The unequalized response curve shows a large bump between 22hz - 35hz and then a pretty big dip at 55hz, 85hz and 115hz. The final result, after applying the PBK EQ is a very slight bump at 22hz then dead flat to about 150hz. The PBK readout doesn't show below 20hz, but there is clearly strong output below 20.

I auditioned it Friday with some music first, and thought is was a little muddy sounding and not very well defined. I wasn't too worried at that point because I still had to fine tune it with the crossover and phase controls. I also thought I may see improvement as it breaks in. After several hours of letting it play, it started to show big improvements. I watched Transformers II: Revenge of the Fallen yesterday afternoon after about 12 hours total of music both Friday and Saturday morning.

I can't even describe how I felt watching that movie - one I've seen at least half a dozen times on my system. There were points in the movie where I just laughed out loud, where I was hearing and FEELING low-frequency information I've never heard or FELT before. One scene, is in the beginning where where the Autobot "Sideswipe" somersaults over the Audi R8 Decepticon before splitting it down the middle. There was very strong audible low bass output, but there was also output I've never FELT before. It was vibrating my chest. There are several scenes like this throughout the movie that sounded and felt the same way. It was, in a word, mindblowing! At the end of the movie I was giddy, but completely drained. The SUB15 made it feel like I was watching this movie for the very first time.

The SUB15 is the real deal. I couldn't be happier! :D

i'm so jealous.......:o

OK, major Sub Envy !:o

Thanks for the kind responses. It is a truly amazing sub.

Whats a decent price for a Sub 12 / 15 new ?

Would anyone have used Rosenut Sub 15 ?

Subs for Home Theater use should be BLACK!!!

Subs for Home Theater use should be BLACK!!!

Blk is Borrring...

Blk is Borrring...

Well then, spray paint it bright orange. I guess you want it to "stand out.":rolleyes:

Armando, you are correct sir ! For a dedicated home theater, black is wonderful (next best thing to in-wall or behind-the-screen). A FLAT black may be "boring" but it is less conspicuous even that "piano black." Ya want your theater room to be the least distracting as possible. If you have a nice living room and have a flat screen on the wall of a well-decorated room, hey, then I can see a fine rosenut finish on those floor-standing speakers. I have that as well as the dedicated theater room and each has its place.

Whats a decent price for a Sub 12 / 15 new ?
And what would be the going rate for a used one

a BIG thanks to Weird 23 (Studio 100's. CC690 and ADP590's) and SimpleTheater (Studio 10's)......... although my Salamander TV Stand won't be shipped until Monday, i have the main 7 speakers in my 7.2 configuration installed and the Marantz system powered! i simply ran Audessey in the Marantz and let Alice in Wonderland play while i was working on wiring the rack. once in awhile i'd walk back into the main finshed area where the movie was playing and i'd find myself stopping and listening to the movie........all i can say is WOW!

now if i could find a great price on a new or used Sub 15 or two..........

Whats a decent price for a Sub 12 / 15 new ?
And what would be the going rate for a used one

You should be able to get 20-25% off of MSRP pretty easily.
Used units usually are listed at a few hundred off the above price.

When I bought my Sub 12 I went new because the price was only a few hundred more than the used ones on CAM. Plus with a new unit you get a warranty.

You should be able to get 20-25% off of MSRP pretty easily.
Used units usually are listed at a few hundred off the above price.

When I bought my Sub 12 I went new because the price was only a few hundred more than the used ones on CAM. Plus with a new unit you get a warranty.

i have 4 dealers around me and NONE will give ANY discount period. if you can get that much of a discount you should buy out your dealers stock and resell them!

i was at one dealer and witnessed a new Signature package being purchased. it was over $20k and the dealer gave him NOTHING off even after the guy threatened to go elsewhere.

so don't bank on any discounts. i have been watching out for Rosenut Sub 15's or Sub 12's but haven't found anything used or demo'd.

a BIG thanks to Weird 23 (Studio 100's. CC690 and ADP590's) and SimpleTheater (Studio 10's)......... although my Salamander TV Stand won't be shipped until Monday, i have the main 7 speakers in my 7.2 configuration installed and the Marantz system powered! i simply ran Audessey in the Marantz and let Alice in Wonderland play while i was working on wiring the rack. once in awhile i'd walk back into the main finshed area where the movie was playing and i'd find myself stopping and listening to the movie........all i can say is WOW!

now if i could find a great price on a new or used Sub 15 or two..........

I glad your enjoying them and thank you. If everything goes according to plan I should be ordering a Sub 1 in a couple of weeks, let me know if your interested in my Sub 15.

Most of paradigm stuff should be available at 30% + off list.

I glad your enjoying them and thank you. If everything goes according to plan I should be ordering a Sub 1 in a couple of weeks, let me know if your interested in my Sub 15.

if it too is rosenut and the price is right.......absolutely!

Most of paradigm stuff should be available at 30% + off list.

you find me Sub 12 or Sub 15 in Rosenut brand new for 30% off and i'll buy 2! sorry, but i disagree.......

Most of paradigm stuff should be available at 30% + off list.Maybe from a dealer that's going (or wants to go) out of buisness.

Oh Well!!! PM is always an option

You should be able to get 20-25% off of MSRP pretty easily.
Used units usually are listed at a few hundred off the above price.

When I bought my Sub 12 I went new because the price was only a few hundred more than the used ones on CAM. Plus with a new unit you get a warranty.

a guy with a sub 15 1yr old in ottawa asking $2200, but i think thats a little much. NO ?

$1900ish in Canada if you have a good relationship with your dealer you will get a way better price my 2 cost me $1583taxes in each.

You bought 2 12 for this ?
Where did you buy ?

You bought 2 12 for this ?
Where did you buy ?

$1583 taxes included EACH

Actually the MSRP in USA is lower than Canada, I believe the Sub 12 is between $2000-2100 MSRP if I recall. Yes, we pay for in Canada for products that are made in our own country :(

WE get ****ed for everything in this Country !!! :confused:

$1583 taxes included EACH

what store did you get it from ?

[QUOTE="motogp34"]

what store did you get it from ?[/QUOTE

W A V

Whitby Audio Video

Whitby Audio Video

just down the street from me, LOL

Go in see what price they will give you.
I get good deals because I buy $50-$100,000 a year off them I build custom theater rooms and have dealt strictly with them for over 10 years now for all the gear.

WE get ****ed for everything in this Country !!! :confused:
K-I-S-S ed ?:D

When I was shopping for speakers the Paradigm dealer was the only one that would not give a discount off of MSRP.

Coming from dual Sub 12's, sorry to say, but it would be absolutely ridiculous to pay anywhere near the current retail IMHO. Only if you can get one lightly used for about half off would I recommend the Sub 12, or any of the Sub XX series for that matter. Much better performance can be had for a fraction of the cost. Go online...

i'm about ready to ignore some of the negative and concentrate on the positive post about audiophileliquidators! :rolleyes:

$2100 for a new Sub 15 and $1600 for a new Sub 12.....

i'm about ready to ignore some of the negative and concentrate on the positive post about audiophileliquidators! :rolleyes:

$2100 for a new Sub 15 and $1600 for a new Sub 12.....

That's a good price, go for the 15.

i have 4 dealers around me and NONE will give ANY discount period. if you can get that much of a discount you should buy out your dealers stock and resell them!

i was at one dealer and witnessed a new Signature package being purchased. it was over $20k and the dealer gave him NOTHING off even after the guy threatened to go elsewhere.

so don't bank on any discounts. i have been watching out for Rosenut Sub 15's or Sub 12's but haven't found anything used or demo'd.

I got a 25% discount on my Sub 12 over the phone. Dealer ordered it and I picked it up a few days later. A friend of mine bought a Signature system a few months back and also received a 20+ % discount. Maybe it's time to relocate :)

$2200 Can. for used Sub 15, good price / No ???

$2200 Can. for used Sub 15, good price / No ???

You can get a new one for 2500-2600.

I tell my clients to always buy new most important reason Full Warenty.

You can get a new one for 2500-2600.

whats a good price for a used one ?

whats a good price for a used one ?

No good price for used because you don't know how abused they have been.

whats a good price for a used one ?

The 1800-1900 range would be a good price for a used Sub 15. But as you probably already know you don't get a warranty, you may have to settle for a colour, and you don't really know what you're buying. A sub can take alot of abuse and never show it. For the extra $500 bucks go get a new one. Another option is to get a demo unit from a dealer. This way you'll save some $$$ but still get a warranty.

My dealer near me quoted $2799 + Tax
Too much for me

I buy new and used all the time depending on the price
But never had any issues with used stuff...

Maybe i`ll wait and see about getting one in the U.S.

I tell my clients to always buy new most important reason Full Warenty.

Not every Tom/Dick/Harry has the money all the time to buy NEW

Not every Tom/Dick/Harry has the money all the time to buy NEW

I know Tom, and he does have the money to buy NEW all the time. Tom not only buys NEW, but he buys the best and is always cutting-edge on AV stuff. His wife and kids are also better looking than ours. Now Dick...well Dick doesn't have...well, doesn't have the money to buy NEW, so he goes to yard sales on Saturday morning, and sometimes he gets "some pretty good stuff," and then there is Harry, who has the money to buy NEW, but is a cheap SOB, and buys low-end AV items from Sears.:cool:
I hope that clarifies things.

I know Tom, and he does have the money to buy NEW all the time. Tom not only buys NEW, but he buys the best and is always cutting-edge on AV stuff. His wife and kids are also better looking than ours. Now Dick...well Dick doesn't have...well, doesn't have the money to buy NEW, so he goes to yard sales on Saturday morning, and sometimes he gets "some pretty good stuff," and then there is Harry, who has the money to buy NEW, but is a cheap SOB, and buys low-end AV items from Sears.:cool:
I hope that clarifies things.

AND i don't really give a **** what you think ! :rolleyes:

Not every Tom/Dick/Harry has the money all the time to buy NEW

No they don't but that's why the save and get it when they have enough instead of pressing there luck with used.

My dealer near me quoted $2799 + Tax
Too much for me

I buy new and used all the time depending on the price
But never had any issues with used stuff...

Maybe i`ll wait and see about getting one in the U.S.

Does this dealer have a demo unit they would be willing to sell?

No they don't but that's why the save and get it when they have enough instead of pressing there luck with used.

I buy new and used stuff, and never had any problems.
I don't think their is anything wrong with used items, why not save the hit the other buyer took, its just as good as a new item. Most people who are buying hi-end items take care of their stuff. Pay-pal offers good protection.
I don't think people who buy used, should be looked down on ?

Does this dealer have a demo unit they would be willing to sell?

I have only been to 1 place, but never asked.
I`ll just keep my eye open, 1 will come along...

I buy new and used stuff, and never had any problems.
I don't think their is anything wrong with used items, why not save the hit the other buyer took, its just as good as a new item. Most people who are buying hi-end items take care of their stuff. Pay-pal offers good protection.
I don't think people who buy used, should be looked down on ?

No one is looking down on people that buy used nothing wrong with that just when you are buying high end gear save and buy new. Most people that buy high end are the ones that are hard on their gear we have more top line stuff returned then mid line due to blown woofers and tweeters.

I buy new and used stuff, and never had any problems.
I don't think their is anything wrong with used items, why not save the hit the other buyer took, its just as good as a new item. Most people who are buying hi-end items take care of their stuff. Pay-pal offers good protection.
I don't think people who buy used, should be looked down on ?

Nobody looks down on those who are trying to save money. I bought my v4 Studio 40's and CC590 as demo units from a reputable dealer. The discount was about 33% off of the list price. I went with a new Sub 12 because I wanted Rosenut. If you can find a reputable dealer, demo gear is the way to go because it more than likely wasn't severely abused and you still get a full warranty. The only downside is you may have settle for a colour.

Nobody looks down on those who are trying to save money. I bought my v4 Studio 40's and CC590 as demo units from a reputable dealer. The discount was about 33% off of the list price. I went with a new Sub 12 because I wanted Rosenut. If you can find a reputable dealer, demo gear is the way to go because it more than likely wasn't severely abused and you still get a full warranty. The only downside is you may have settle for a colour.

I`am also looking for Rosenut 15.
What dealer did you deal with ?

I`am also looking for Rosenut 15.
What dealer did you deal with ?

Sent you a PM

I know it varies dealer to dealer but my dealer gives me 25% off across the board. If I buy several things at once and place a larger order he gives me 30%+. I have been a loyal customer for over 10 years so he treats me well. Though I recenlty sold most of my Paradigm speakers to go with in wall Thiel speakers, I kept the Sub 15 because it rocks :)

Would you buy 2 week old Sub 15 for $2100 USD. It comes with a full warranty.
It was bought buy a customer who changed his mind about the color and got a different Sub 15.
I was thinking of getting a Sub 12 but this Sub 15 with full 3 year warranty is making it hard for me to pass up.

Would you buy 2 week old Sub 15 for $2100 USD. It comes with a full warranty.
It was bought buy a customer who changed his mind about the color and got a different Sub 15.
I was thinking of getting a Sub 12 but this Sub 15 with full 3 year warranty is making it hard for me to pass up.

Yes that is a pretty good deal.

My dealer near me quoted $2799 + Tax
Too much for me

I buy new and used all the time depending on the price
But never had any issues with used stuff...

Maybe i`ll wait and see about getting one in the U.S.


For those kinds of prices for that thing, you guys are all outta your mind...

Head over to Funky Waves "in Canadia" and get an 18.0...
2 x the output and way better SQ...
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_18_0

For those kinds of prices for that thing, you guys are all outta your mind...

Head over to Funky Waves "in Canadia" and get an 18.0...
2 x the output and way better SQ...
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_18_0

Thanks for confirming we are out of our minds....my wife agrees with you 100%:p

Thanks for confirming we are out of our minds....my wife agrees with you 100%:p

She'll be far less intimidated by your thoughts of a single sub when you show her my XLERATOR thread.... that was no cheap date, but it was cheaper then a pair of Sub 2's...

For those kinds of prices for that thing, you guys are all outta your mind...

Head over to Funky Waves "in Canadia" and get an 18.0...
2 x the output and way better SQ...
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_18_0

same price of a sub 15, but not much reviews on it ?

same price of a sub 15, but not much reviews on it ?

PM coming your way...

Sub 15 will be my most expensive speaker. My equipment rack is located far away.
Should I plug Sub 15 in a surge protected outlet or am I better off having just regular outlet and buy a surge protector. Can anyone recommend a surge protector that they have used with Sub 15 without any issues.

I have my 2 Servo 15a's plugged into a power conditioner and a voltage regulator and do not notice any reduced capability vs plugging them into the wall. I like the piece of mind of having them protected whenever possible. One Servo 15 is plugged into a Furman SPR-20 voltage regulator/surge protector while the other is plugged into a Furman IT-Reference power conditioner. The Furman's are definitely not strictly used for the subs as all of my gear plugs into either one or the other with the exception of my 3rd sub, a Sub-25. That sits too far away from the Furmans so it plugs into the wall.

If I want to feel pure bass - one sub 15 or two sub 12's

Room size is approx 210 sq m

I enjoy a mix of home theatre as well as music. Want the punch in movies and the purity in music (apologies not very good at all the right terms).

Hello everyone. I'm a new Paradigm owner and long-time lurker. I have a set of Studio 60's and a 490, and I've slowly been building my system. I recently ordered a Sub 12, which I received yesterday. When I did, my local dealer (San Diego) offered my the PBK for $99, and I believe he said that Paradigm was running a special. At that price, I snapped up the deal and didn't question my dealer. Anyway, for those of you who are interested in the PBK, but who have not purchased it due to its price, I'd thought I'd let you know that it might be worth an inquiry into your dealer to see if you can get the same deal. Many of the posters on this thread have nice things to say about the PBK. After running it last night, I would agree. It works well.

Hello everyone. I'm a new Paradigm owner and long-time lurker. I have a set of Studio 60's and a 490, and I've slowly been building my system. I recently ordered a Sub 12, which I received yesterday. When I did, my local dealer (San Diego) offered my the PBK for $99, and I believe he said that Paradigm was running a special. At that price, I snapped up the deal and didn't question my dealer. Anyway, for those of you who are interested in the PBK, but who have not purchased it due to its price, I'd thought I'd let you know that it might be worth an inquiry into your dealer to see if you can get the same deal. Many of the posters on this thread have nice things to say about the PBK. After running it last night, I would agree. It works well.

Here in Canada the PBK has been $99 for about 8 months now we offer it to our clients for $69 with the purchase of a sub and set of speakers.

Here in Canada the PBK has been $99 for about 8 months now we offer it to our clients for $69 with the purchase of a sub and set of speakers.

They certainly did drop the price. Back in October when I bought my Sub 12, the dealer quoted me $275.00. I ended up buying one used on CAM for 150.00.

The PBK manual says that "PBK can be used with up to four Paradigm Reference subwoofers". I am not sure if I understand why. If I run PBK on one sub at the time I cannot understand why I couldn´t do that on more than four subs. In my setup I plan to have six Paradigm subs so my question is how can I run PBK for all of them? I don´t want to buy a 2nd PBK kit. I already have the microphone and the software on my computer. Anyone knows?

Hello everyone. I'm a new Paradigm owner and long-time lurker. I have a set of Studio 60's and a 490, and I've slowly been building my system. I recently ordered a Sub 12, which I received yesterday. When I did, my local dealer (San Diego) offered my the PBK for $99, and I believe he said that Paradigm was running a special. At that price, I snapped up the deal and didn't question my dealer. Anyway, for those of you who are interested in the PBK, but who have not purchased it due to its price, I'd thought I'd let you know that it might be worth an inquiry into your dealer to see if you can get the same deal. Many of the posters on this thread have nice things to say about the PBK. After running it last night, I would agree. It works well.

Hi sjedi, was wondering which dealer in San Diego have you been dealing with?

I've been dealing with Dynamic Sound Systems in Carlsbad. They've been great. When I was shopping for speakers, I also visited another Paradigm dealer in town, and was disappointed. Send me a pm if you want details.

The PBK manual says that "PBK can be used with up to four Paradigm Reference subwoofers". I am not sure if I understand why. If I run PBK on one sub at the time I cannot understand why I couldn´t do that on more than four subs. In my setup I plan to have six Paradigm subs so my question is how can I run PBK for all of them? I don´t want to buy a 2nd PBK kit. I already have the microphone and the software on my computer. Anyone knows?

Paradigm has updated PBK to a limit of 99 subwoofers. Make sure you update the PBK software AFTER you install from the CD included with the PBK.
If you need to tune more than 99 subwoofers; uninstall and reinstall the PBK software on your PC (or use a different PC).

Just ordered a Sub12 in piano black + PBK to go with the rest of my new Paradigms.

The plan is to buy a second one later this year, and hopefully they will be enough to fill my relatively small family room of 11x14x8 that has a big opening to kitchen-dinning room-living room-foyer (Around 30x22x15).

Was originally contemplating the Sub1, but the price I was quoted was just too much, so dual Sub12's are a better deal for me at the moment.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Was originally contemplating the Sub1, but the price I was quoted was just too much, so dual Sub12's are a better deal for me at the moment.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Smart move!

The dual Sub 12's should be at least equal in output. That said, the added benefit of being able to place them in different areas of your space far outweighs any minor differences in output anyway.

Well I've had my Sub 12 since March of 2009, no problems untill the other day it started a clicking noise when a bass note hit. Took to dealer and we self diagnosed it as the voice coil went out. It's being sent to Paradigm this week, hope warranty covers it.

I'll get my SUB15 next monday.......

Regards

Wolf

Finally received my sub12 no 5 & 6. Maybe want to add two sub15 in the rear corners later, but I am pretty happy with my setup now. The sub12s are awesome for both music and movies. My line sources are very, very transparent and dynamic, but the sub12s are definately up to the task.

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=56984.0;attach=257547;image

Finally received my sub12 no 5 & 6. Maybe want to add two sub15 in the rear corners later, but I am pretty happy with my setup now. The sub12s are awesome for both music and movies. My line sources are very, very transparent and dynamic, but the sub12s are definately up to the task.



Very nice setup.
Very impressive that would sound so smooth and clean.

Very nice setup.
Very impressive that would sound so smooth and clean.

Yes, it does. I have run PBK on all of them and four of them got a very nice, linear curve, the remaining two were ´almost´ on target.

The bass is ultra-clean, dynamic and defined because of less distiortion and stress on each sub.

Yes, it does. I have run PBK on all of them and four of them got a very nice, linear curve, the remaining two were ´almost´ on target.

The bass is ultra-clean, dynamic and defined because of less distiortion and stress on each sub.

PBK can be used to measure multiple subs? Or are you saying you measured one at a time?

PBK can be used to measure multiple subs? Or are you saying you measured one at a time?

One at a time. (only option)

I PBK'd my Sub 12 a few months ago and I love it. At really DEEP low ends I get a funny rattle like noise that i traced to the silver foot pods on the sub. I can replicate the noise if I try to move the foot pod back and forth. Anyone else have this issue?
Mike

Tighten the screws of the feet.....

Perhaps you can put a dab of glue on the screw to keep it from loosening...

Finally received my sub12 no 5 & 6. Maybe want to add two sub15 in the rear corners later, but I am pretty happy with my setup now. The sub12s are awesome for both music and movies. My line sources are very, very transparent and dynamic, but the sub12s are definately up to the task.

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=56984.0;attach=257547;image

Very nice setup. I have never seen so many subs before, very cool. How are you getting the signal to so many subs? I have seen and used a y splitter but that obviously only deals with 2, you have 6 :D Do you worry about signal degradation while splitting to so many?

Rod

Here is link to my Sub 12 PBK chart....I am extremely happy with the performance of this thing ! The bass is deep, tight, and best of all the sub simply disappears into the room.

Very nice setup. I have never seen so many subs before, very cool. How are you getting the signal to so many subs? I have seen and used a y splitter but that obviously only deals with 2, you have 6 :D Do you worry about signal degradation while splitting to so many?

Rod

I have 3 sub outputs from a Theta Casablanca SSP. So each of these outputs are splitted only once.

I have 3 sub outputs from a Theta Casablanca SSP. So each of these outputs are splitted only once.

May I know what speakers are those?

May I know what speakers are those?

http://www.adytonaudio.no/

So far, only sold in Europe.

I have 3 sub outputs from a Theta Casablanca SSP. So each of these outputs are splitted only once.

Thanks.

So why did you decide on the Sub 12 and not say 6 Sub 15's, 6 Sub 25's, 6 Sub 1's or the extreme 6 Sub 2's :)? I'm just curious what it was about the Sub 12 that you liked for your implementation.

Thanks.

So why did you decide on the Sub 12 and not say 6 Sub 15's, 6 Sub 25's, 6 Sub 1's or the extreme 6 Sub 2's :)? I'm just curious what it was about the Sub 12 that you liked for your implementation.

Space. The subs are below center channel and the other models are too tall.

my room is 17/22/9
should i get 2 sub 12`s or 2 sub 15`s

my room is 17/22/9
should i get 2 sub 12`s or 2 sub 15`s

2 15s. More is better. I have six sub 12s in a room like yours and plan to get two more... Because of reduced load on each sub the bass is ultra clean and tight!

2 15s. More is better. I have six sub 12s in a room like yours and plan to get two more... Because of reduced load on each sub the bass is ultra clean and tight!

How does the DD+ compare to the Sub 12 /15 ?

It seems that the power switch on the back of my sub 12 is broken. What is the quickest and easiest and CHEAPEST way to go about fixing this? Does anyone know how much Paradigm would charge to fix this? Is it possible for me to do it myself?

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks

It seems that the power switch on the back of my sub 12 is broken. What is the quickest and easiest and CHEAPEST way to go about fixing this? Does anyone know how much Paradigm would charge to fix this? Is it possible for me to do it myself?

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks

Should be under warranty.

does it matter if it was my fault, kind of?

does it matter if it was my fault, kind of?

No I sent a Monitor 7 back for a client that he put an drill through fixed no questions asked an it was over a year out of warranty Paradigm takes care of it's dealers that they have a good relationship with bring it to your dealer and see what they say.

That might be a problem as my dealer is over 1hr and a half away that i bought it from, but i am literally 15 minutes away from Paradigm headquarters.

UPDATE!

I took the Sub 12 directly to Paradigm and they fixed it no problem. Under warranty and everything!!! it took about 3 weeks, but i cant really complain. It broke because of my stupidity, but they still fiixed it at no charge. Top notch customer service!!

Actually ended up buying a second Sub 12 as well!! Waiting for it to arrive. Can't wait 2 weeks.

I have Seymour AV AT screen. My LCR and sub 15 and behind the screen.
The room size is 25x16x9.
LCR's are Paradigm Studio 100's
Read/surrounds are Triads Bronze speakers
Receiver is Anthem MRX 700
Amp is Anthem MCA 30 and it is powering the LCR speakers.
My room is not fully enclosed and there are 2 large openings on one side of the room.

I have not run PBK yet. I did run ARC. I got feedback from ARC gurus in the Anthem MRX forum that my charts looked good.
However I am not hearing much BASS.
Here are my sub settings.
Volume level is 40%
Phase is 0
Cutt off is 170/bypass

Sub is placed between the center and right channel.
The driver of the sub is facing the center channel. I was told that the sub woofer should not face the screen.

Someone suggested that perhaps the subwoofer is out of phase with the LCR's so I have played around with various phase settings but it has not made a difference.

I will pick up PBK in near future and run the ARC setup after running PBK.

In the meantime let me know if you have any suggestions for me.


Thanks

Out of curiosity, why is your sub facing your center and not projecting out into the room like you LCR speakers? I would turn the voume to 50% and run the PBK. Can you borrow a kit from your Dealer until you get one of your own? If you still aren't getting proper bass you could try moving the sub to a corner and then re-run PBK.

Without PBK your options are still sub placement and volume adjustment, try experimenting with both. Also double check your crossover settings in your receiver, it's possible you may have something set wrong and for example you may be sending the low ferquencies to your Studio 100's or there is something like a db percentage offset for the LFE set, typically this would be something you would come across when using 5.1 analog and not HDMI/Toslink/Coax but it doesn't hurt to check. Also make sure you don't have any night time listening modes activated, those will kill the bass.

I have Seymour AV AT screen. My LCR and sub 15 and behind the screen.
The room size is 25x16x9.
LCR's are Paradigm Studio 100's
Read/surrounds are Triads Bronze speakers
Receiver is Anthem MRX 700
Amp is Anthem MCA 30 and it is powering the LCR speakers.
My room is not fully enclosed and there are 2 large openings on one side of the room.

I have not run PBK yet. I did run ARC. I got feedback from ARC gurus in the Anthem MRX forum that my charts looked good.
However I am not hearing much BASS.
Here are my sub settings.
Volume level is 40%
Phase is 0
Cutt off is 170/bypass

Sub is placed between the center and right channel.
The driver of the sub is facing the center channel. I was told that the sub woofer should not face the screen.

Someone suggested that perhaps the subwoofer is out of phase with the LCR's so I have played around with various phase settings but it has not made a difference.

I will pick up PBK in near future and run the ARC setup after running PBK.

In the meantime let me know if you have any suggestions for me.


Thanks

It sounds like a placement issue. Put the sub in your main listening position, then move around the room to find the spot with the best bass response. Once you find that spot, put the sub there, facing the listening position.

Here are the charts created by ARC as well as targets.
I have reached out to my dealer to see if I can borrow or buy PBK.
I had someone provide me with layout of my speakers in the home theater. He told me not to point my sub driver at the screen.
I will try to move the sub around and also use PBK in near future.

Thanks



I have Seymour AV AT screen. My LCR and sub 15 and behind the screen.
The room size is 25x16x9.
LCR's are Paradigm Studio 100's
Read/surrounds are Triads Bronze speakers
Receiver is Anthem MRX 700
Amp is Anthem MCA 30 and it is powering the LCR speakers.
My room is not fully enclosed and there are 2 large openings on one side of the room.

I have not run PBK yet. I did run ARC. I got feedback from ARC gurus in the Anthem MRX forum that my charts looked good.
However I am not hearing much BASS.
Here are my sub settings.
Volume level is 40%
Phase is 0
Cutt off is 170/bypass

Sub is placed between the center and right channel.
The driver of the sub is facing the center channel. I was told that the sub woofer should not face the screen.

Someone suggested that perhaps the subwoofer is out of phase with the LCR's so I have played around with various phase settings but it has not made a difference.

I will pick up PBK in near future and run the ARC setup after running PBK.

In the meantime let me know if you have any suggestions for me.


Thanks

Here are the charts created by ARC as well as targets.
I have reached out to my dealer to see if I can borrow or buy PBK.
I had someone provide me with layout of my speakers in the home theater. He told me not to point my sub driver at the screen.
I will try to move the sub around and also use PBK in near future.

Thanks

Definately a placement issue. You have plenty of low-end energy from your L/R fronts, in fact ARC significantly reduced the amount of bass from them, so it's not your room.

Try turning off ARC, and turning off your sub and see if the bass impact improves. If it does, you'll quickly confirm your sub in in the wrong place... much easier than moving the sub around. Once confirmed, the best way to place a sub is the way I described above.

Keep us posted...

The perfect bass kit really does make a difference and even if you go with the SVS you should look at their room correction add on or something like the Velodyne sms1. I wonder how many people with a svs and no room correction love how loud it gets but are really just listening to a big 40 hz bump thinking its great.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/216/7nTnr.png

Hi guys,

I currently have a SUB 15 at home as a demo from my local dealer. I am very impressed and would love to replace my current sub. If I can make a decision by Tuesday my dealer will let me keep the demo at home until my new sub comes in.

The only thing holding me up at this point is the great variance in published retail prices around the net. What is the current MSRP of the SUB 15? My dealer is asking $3200 but the on the net the published price ranges anywhere from $2800-$3200 with most sites stating $3000. That extra $200 in savings would definitely be helpful for the bass kit as my aging Rotel RSP-1068 does not have any room correction features (still sounds great though).

Also, do you SUB 15 owners still think it's the best value for a ~$3k subwoofer for home theater? Or should I add one or two more to my short list.

Kind Regards,
Bryan

Does that price include the PBK? You should be able to get 10-15% off list price, which should be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500-$2700 for the sub plus the PBK.

Hi guys,

I currently have a SUB 15 at home as a demo from my local dealer. I am very impressed and would love to replace my current sub. If I can make a decision by Tuesday my dealer will let me keep the demo at home until my new sub comes in.

The only thing holding me up at this point is the great variance in published retail prices around the net. What is the current MSRP of the SUB 15? My dealer is asking $3200 but the on the net the published price ranges anywhere from $2800-$3200 with most sites stating $3000. That extra $200 in savings would definitely be helpful for the bass kit as my aging Rotel RSP-1068 does not have any room correction features (still sounds great though).

Also, do you SUB 15 owners still think it's the best value for a ~$3k subwoofer for home theater? Or should I add one or two more to my short list.

Kind Regards,
Bryan

Personally I would get 2 sub 12's
Aprox 7 out of 10 installs we do are 2 12's.
PBK is now under $100 now you should be able to get the sub 15 for around $2500 if your dealer wants your business. That's what I get it for my clients for. 2 Sub 12's for $3500 or 2 15's for $4800ish

Personally I would get 2 sub 12's
Aprox 7 out of 10 installs we do are 2 12's.
PBK is now under $100 now you should be able to get the sub 15 for around $2500 if your dealer wants your business. That's what I get it for my clients for. 2 Sub 12's for $3500 or 2 15's for $4800ish

Personally I would get 2 sub 12's
Aprox 7 out of 10 installs we do are 2 12's.
PBK is now under $100 now you should be able to get the sub 15 for around $2500 if your dealer wants your business. That's what I get it for my clients for. 2 Sub 12's for $3500 or 2 15's for $4800ish

Thanks for the info guys, my dealer's price of $3,200 does not include the PBK. I have not tried to wheel and deal with him at all yet, $3200 is his list price. His offer without me countering is I can demo the sub until Tuesday, if I like it he would work out a deal on the demo unit or I could order a new one for $3200. I don't want the demo unit, I prefer new.

When you say the PBK price is under $100, is that list price or street price? If it's still list $300 I can't see my dealer getting anywhere close to that. If that's the case, where would I find it for $100?

I would buy this sub in a heartbeat at $2500. I am doubting my dealer will budge $700 though (nearly 22% off)

And when you say your clients, do you still make a nice profit on the subs at $2500? I know my dealer does need to make a profit to stay in business.

Cheers!

Thanks for the info guys, my dealer's price of $3,200 does not include the PBK. I have not tried to wheel and deal with him at all yet, $3200 is his list price. His offer without me countering is I can demo the sub until Tuesday, if I like it he would work out a deal on the demo unit or I could order a new one for $3200. I don't want the demo unit, I prefer new.

When you say the PBK price is under $100, is that list price or street price? If it's still list $300 I can't see my dealer getting anywhere close to that. If that's the case, where would I find it for $100?

I would buy this sub in a heartbeat at $2500. I am doubting my dealer will budge $700 though (nearly 22% off)

And when you say your clients, do you still make a nice profit on the subs at $2500? I know my dealer does need to make a profit to stay in business.

Cheers!

PBK list price is now $99, I think. And yes, there is still a healthy profit for your dealer at $2500 for the sub, but it would be rare to get that price. I would think $2700-2800 would be fair.

PBK list price is now $99, I think. And yes, there is still a healthy profit for your dealer at $2500 for the sub, but it would be rare to get that price. I would think $2700-2800 would be fair.

Well I've done some calling around and noone within 200 miles will talk anything but suggested retail price over the phone. Of the places I talked to the PBK ranged in price from $99-$199. The SUB 15 is unanimously quoted at $3199 though (I guess there was a recent price hike). Hopefully my dealer will help me out a little.

So to answer my own initial question, the current MSRP of the SUB 15 is $3199.

Thanks for all your input

Well I've done some calling around and noone within 200 miles will talk anything but suggested retail price over the phone. Of the places I talked to the PBK ranged in price from $99-$199. The SUB 15 is unanimously quoted at $3199 though (I guess there was a recent price hike). Hopefully my dealer will help me out a little.

So to answer my own initial question, the current MSRP of the SUB 15 is $3199.

Thanks for all your input

Is this a US price?

Is this a US price?

Yes, this is the US price. I am unsure what the Canadian price is now after the price increase.

Hey Guys, i have 2 Sub 12s. What is the best way of setting them up in the room? Right now i have them both sitting in the front facing me, between the center and each left and right speaker, but i feel i can get more out of them.

Thanks

Hey Guys, i have 2 Sub 12s. What is the best way of setting them up in the room? Right now i have them both sitting in the front facing me, between the center and each left and right speaker, but i feel i can get more out of them.

Thanks

Have you PBKed them that's how I have mine setup in our showroom the sound great.

Yes, this is the US price. I am unsure what the Canadian price is now after the price increase.

I am thinking of trading in my 2 subs DSP3400&2400 deeler told me for a price 1600 for sub 12 2350 for sub 15 with my trade in deel good ?

I am thinking of trading in my 2 subs DSP3400&2400 deeler told me for a price 1600 for sub 12 2350 for sub 15 with my trade in deel good ?

Not a good deal here in Canada my price for Sub12 at my local dealer is $1800 so you are only getting $200 for your 2 subs

Not a good deal here in Canada my price for Sub12 at my local dealer is $1800 so you are only getting $200 for your 2 subs

Any one in the US ???

I PBK'd my friends new Sub 15 yesterday. The weird part is when the chart came up it had the sub listed as a Sub 12. I did a Quick Measure and the same thing happened - it showed up as a Sub 12 in the status window. When I did my Sub 12 it was correctly identified on the chart. The software measured fine and there was a noticeable difference after applying the correction so the process itself worked fine. I know the internals are the same but I would expect the software to correctly identify the sub. Has anyone else pbk'd a Sub 15 and noticed this? I can't remember seeing a chart posted for a Sub 15.

I PBK'd my friends new Sub 15 yesterday. The weird part is when the chart came up it had the sub listed as a Sub 12. I did a Quick Measure and the same thing happened - it showed up as a Sub 12 in the status window. When I did my Sub 12 it was correctly identified on the chart. The software measured fine and there was a noticeable difference after applying the correction so the process itself worked fine. I know the internals are the same but I would expect the software to correctly identify the sub. Has anyone else pbk'd a Sub 15 and noticed this? I can't remember seeing a chart posted for a Sub 15.

From what i know i should come up as the Sub 15. if i rember it came up some were in the MRX tweeking page

From what i know i should come up as the Sub 15. if i rember it came up some were in the MRX tweeking page

When i did my 3400 and 3200 both came up in PBK

I'm upgrading everything. I'm going with Studio 60s, 10s and CC-590 for the "5" part but haven't decided on ".1" just yet. My salesman suggested the Studio Sub 12 for, among other reasons, the PBK feature. The OCD/anal retentive/completist in me likes the idea of a complete matching set, especially given how great the Sub 12 sounds and how beautiful (!) it is. But when I could save about $1,000 with a Hsu ULS-15, which some might say is a better sub, the cheapskate in me starts to fret.

I want to support a local business, especially since there just aren't that many left, and would happily pay a premium in order to do so but when the price difference would cover much of my trip to Mexico this June it's a tough decision.

The Integra 50.3 has everything I'm looking for, but I see that the 70.3 has the Audyssey Sub EQ HT option. So now I'm thinking I could go with the Hsu and let the Audyssey do what the PBK would have done. This leads to my question: Is the end result of the Audyssey Sub EQ HT comparable to the PBK?

Currently I'm in a place that's too small for dual or ported subs. Would the answer to this question change if another sub was added in the future?

Sorry to be so long winded. I appreciate any advice.

I'm upgrading everything. I'm going with Studio 60s, 10s and CC-590 for the "5" part but haven't decided on ".1" just yet. My salesman suggested the Studio Sub 12 for, among other reasons, the PBK feature. The OCD/anal retentive/completist in me likes the idea of a complete matching set, especially given how great the Sub 12 sounds and how beautiful (!) it is. But when I could save about $1,000 with a Hsu ULS-15, which some might say is a better sub, the cheapskate in me starts to fret.

I want to support a local business, especially since there just aren't that many left, and would happily pay a premium in order to do so but when the price difference would cover much of my trip to Mexico this June it's a tough decision.

The Integra 50.3 has everything I'm looking for, but I see that the 70.3 has the Audyssey Sub EQ HT option. So now I'm thinking I could go with the Hsu and let the Audyssey do what the PBK would have done. This leads to my question: Is the end result of the Audyssey Sub EQ HT comparable to the PBK?

Currently I'm in a place that's too small for dual or ported subs. Would the answer to this question change if another sub was added in the future?

Sorry to be so long winded. I appreciate any advice.

Yes, I would say Audyssey SubEQ is extremely comparable to PBK. The main adv to PBK is that it will show you the before and after (albeit heavily smoothed) result. SubEQ is designed to support dual subs so you're good there.

I was considering the Sub12 myself for a LONG time and auditioned it a couple of times, but I ended up with the SB13, which has been perfect for my medium room. The only "pro" I could come up with is that the Sub12 would match my Studio's Rosenut finish perfectly and that I would be supporting a Canadian company. I wouldn't hesitate to choose the ULS or any of the sealed Rythmiks over the Sub12. The Sub12 is a nice sub but it doesn't peg the value for $ meter as well as those others unless you really need the PBK.