Paradigm's new Sub 12, and Sub 15 have my interest... I can't wait to put an ear near one.
Dual 850w amplifiers (one per voicecoil) is each model is pretty damn cool IMO.

Sub 12 $1999
Sub 15 $2799

The optional Perfect Bass Kit is $299, but can control more than one sub.

Enjoy!

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/474/screenshot3zq3.jpg


http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3734/screenshot4yr2.th.jpg (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot4yr2.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6114/screenshot5xd0.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot5xd0.jpg) http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5245/screenshot6ji0.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot6ji0.jpg) http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2299/screenshot7zz9.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot7zz9.jpg)


http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6707/screenshot8hg2.jpg

I would love to see a test bench of the new 15.

I would have to rewire my house for one of those. I'm a Paradigm fan and most of my speakers and my current subwoofer are Paradigm but that is just too much juice for 1 sub. Rather run multiple smaller subs rather than have to rewire my house.

now i have to choose between the sub 15 and the svs13 ultra.

now i have to choose between the sub 15 and the svs13 ultra.

If your main use is HT, the PB13 will beat the SUB 15 easily. I'm not sure about music, but they should be close, an edge for the PB13.

If your main use is HT, the PB13 will beat the SUB 15 easily. I'm not sure about music, but they should be close, an edge for the PB13.you cant beat the price of the svs. but i think the more musical the speaker system is, it will sound better with movies. plus most movies have music.

you cant beat the price of the svs. but i think the more musical the speaker system is, it will sound better with movies. plus most movies have music.

That is true to some degree, but for HT use, the subwoofer's main focus is output. You want the sub to have lots of output to shake your room.

If your main use is HT, the PB13 will beat the SUB 15 easily. I'm not sure about music, but they should be close, an edge for the PB13.

I love how you can say such an opinion as fact when the sub has not been released yet and you have not heard it. Right now price is all that can be compared

I was just going to make a thread about these to get opinions. Since they are so new I imagine not too many have made it to the wild yet.

The good news is Paradigm has finally arrived into the "self calibrating subwoofer world". Only about 2 years too late. :)

I would compare the 15 incher to the J L Audio F113, based on price.

I love how you can say such an opinion as fact when the sub has not been released yet and you have not heard it. Right now price is all that can be compared

It is 100% that the SUB 15 will have less output than the PB13. I don't think there is any sealed commercial subwoofer than can exceed the output of a PB13. Also, this is not even Paradigm's flagship sub.

For sake of comparison, Paradigm's Servo v2 (15''), Paradigm's second best sub, only outputted 99dB at 20Hz, 104dB at 30Hz, and 102dB at 50Hz at 2M away ground plane. The PB13, outputted 108dB at 20Hz, 112dB at 31Hz, and 116dB at 50hz. This is equivalent to more than 3 Servo v2s. Do you think the SUB 15 have any chance of beating the PB13?

The test would be interesting we are talking a lot of power and more cone area but
the pb-13 is a hard sub to beat price,performance and size.

It is 100% that the SUB 15 will have less output than the PB13. I don't think there is any sealed commercial subwoofer than can exceed the output of a PB13. Also, this is not even Paradigm's flagship sub.

For sake of comparison, Paradigm's Servo v2 (15''), Paradigm's second best sub, only outputted 99dB at 20Hz, 104dB at 30Hz, and 102dB at 50Hz at 2M away ground plane. The PB13, outputted 108dB at 20Hz, 112dB at 31Hz, and 116dB at 50hz. This is equivalent to more than 3 Servo v2s. Do you think the SUB 15 have any chance of beating the PB13?
is it all about the output?what about the sound quality?

I was proving my point that the PB13 is guaranteed to have more output than the SUB 15.

Sound quality should be better, I don't know if it'll be better than the PB13, I'm just speculating. The Servo v2's sound quality was not on par with the PB13.

I'm really interested in the distortion figures for these subs.

Has anyone heard any of these yet?

What if the Sub 15 and the PB13 were the same price? Which would you prefer then?

I love how you can say such an opinion as fact when the sub has not been released yet and you have not heard it. Right now price is all that can be compared

He already answered your question, but if you had an Ultra, or ever heard one, you would know :cool:

What if the Sub 15 and the PB13 were the same price? Which would you prefer then?

I have a love hate relationship with my Ultra, I love the output, but the size... good lord. My primary use is HT, so the Ultra, no hesitation.

The new Sub12 and Sub15 will be JL Audio f112 and f113 competition. The JL's capable of displacing slightly more air.

The new Paradigm subs are suilt like tanks,I saw the Sub12 at my local Paradigm/JL dealer.

I may buy the Sub 15 and Sub 12 and stack thembesides my f113's and f112's.

Real nice subs.

For pure output the SVS Ultra and new Plus will displace more air,where the SVS takes ouver is in output from 30Hz down to tune.No surprises here,anyone who understands a bit how a sealed fares versus a ported will make an easy deduction here. :rolleyes:

my question is two sub 12's or one sub 15 ? my listening area is about 17 long 13 wide 8 high . paradigm 100's cc 690 adp 590 anthem mca 50 avm 50. my great room total is about 40 long 25 wide 8 high , with the listening room in that space , 50 50 ht music . i was told doing a 5.1 i would be better with two subs instead of a single sub . the cost of doing a 7.1 system would be more , amps speakers ect... input please ? want to do it right first time . putting wire in walls soon. thanks in advance .

I'd go with two Sub-12's, you'll get a little more output(depending on where you place them-phase, etc.) and smoother response, I like having two subs, I use one for lower frequncies, and the other set on a higher crossover frequncy to fill in mid bass, sounds great. But of course you don't have to do that. MO

What if the Sub 15 and the PB13 were the same price? Which would you prefer then?Sub 15 (neeed looks too)

Sub 15 (neeed looks too)


why?

why?
a great speaker should also be a nice peice of furniture.

a great speaker should also be a nice peice of furniture.My sub is my end table. It supports my cigar humidor and ash tray. Of course, with some demo material, those have to be relocated or they move on their own. :cool:

Whats the MSRP on these in CAD

(or did the OP post in CAD?)

thanx

How does the perfect bass kit compare with the SVS AS- EQ1? Does it handle 2 subs?

Thanks in advance

Rick

a great speaker should also be a nice peice of furniture.


sorry for the confusion... by 'why' i meant why would you choose the sub15 over the pb13. (solely on looks?)

sorry for the confusion... by 'why' i meant why would you choose the sub15 over the pb13. (solely on looks?)nope
1. the size
2. the looks
3. for a practical application there are plenty of subs at this level, and one could choose any of them and be satisified.
4. i like to keep all of the speaker in the same family
5. Paradigm/Anthem is a great company

This is the debate that i'm having with myself. I'm going to get 100's, 20's for surrounds, and 690 center, but i'm still really on the fence about the sub. I was thinking either a PB13 or the new v5 Sub 15.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts they would like to share about how these two subs compare with one another?

- Which produces more sound?
- Which produces better quality sound?
- How would they compare against one another?
- Is the price difference between the two justified?

I've heard the PB13 and it seems like a great sub to me, but I haven't heard the new Sub15. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

wow no one has heard a sub 12 , 15 , yet ? bert

svs is not really all about SPL here......

3 little facts:

SVS: Underhung - Linear: yes
JL Audio: Overhung - Linear: no
Paradigm: Overhung - Linear: no

is it all about the output?what about the sound quality?

People get hung up on certain brands around here. If it isn't SVS/Monoprice/BJC/Oppo etc then it's not loud enough/too expensive/ripoff/snake oil/etc

You'll get used to it.

Heard the sub-12 yesterday. Needless to say, I want one. Maybe even the sub-15(didn't hear it). I stood 10 ft away and my pant legs were moving, my jacket was vibrating and the sound was room filling deep bass. Not much more I can say other than you have to listen to one of these to appreciate.

Have the Sub12 in my store, took a couple of days to fully break in. Man does it play deep, loud, and very clean.

We had a Servo 15 in our theatre room, but that was sold months ago. We were forced to move the DSP3400 over there and my ears got used to it and I forget of really clean bass sounded like.

At first the sub12 seemed like it was a big drop off in output, that was until 2 days after initial setup the sub came alive.

Listening to the opening sequence of Quantum of Solace was bone shaking. BUT you could distinctly hear every detail in the bass. The rapid fire gunshots very fluid and the Sub12 caught each and every shot. The same cannot be said for the DSP3400 which was more like a muddy bass sequence.

Sub12 is an absolute winner.

People get hung up on certain brands around here. If it isn't SVS/Monoprice/BJC/Oppo etc then it's not loud enough/too expensive/ripoff/snake oil/etc

You'll get used to it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I never bash any of those products, but people cling to them like they are automatically better than everything else available. Like a cult.

Back on topic. The weird thing about the sub12 is...the driver is deceivingly small...it simply looks like a 10" woofer. But since the surround is 1.5" thick it makes the actual woofer look much smaller.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I never bash any of those products, but people cling to them like they are automatically better than everything else available. Like a cult.


I'm a Paradigm guy thru and thru owning a PS1000, PW2200 and a Servo15.
I've had various Monitor series and various Studio series in the last 15+ years.

I "cling" to those speakers and recommend them to anybody who'll listen.
Almost like a cult to me....pretty bad eh?:rolleyes:

Its obvious you haven't heard a SVS sub let alone the PB13 Ultra.
But I'll tell you, you go to someones house that owns one and if its properly setup, you wont wonder anymore why they have the following they have. For under $2G Cdn, I cant see anything else that comes close.

I took a chance and picked up the sub 12 unheard last week, as I just couldn't pass up an unbelievable deal. I went to my local dealer to audition the DSP-3400 and walked out with the sub 12. This sub is very accurate and pounds with authority in my small room. This was my expression when I first fired it up :eek::D:eek:. I will try to give a more detailed review once it gets broke in and I have a few more quality hours under my belt.

I am interested in the sub 12. But two other subs are on my short list...the axiom EP500 and the svs ultra 13. They are within a few hundred dollars of each other. The axiom and the svs are really well rated but the perfect bass kit is tempting. I have heard the sub 12 and it is impressive. The axiom is really well rated and the cheapest of the three. The svs has great output but does not have room correction. I am looking for a clean, tight sounding sub for HT and music but it has to have good punch. Is the svs overkill? Would a sub 12 be "better" because of the room correction? Just go cheaper with the well rated axiom and be done with it?

Any thoughts?

I am interested in the sub 12. But two other subs are on my short list...the axiom EP500 and the svs ultra 13. They are within a few hundred dollars of each other. The axiom and the svs are really well rated but the perfect bass kit is tempting. I have heard the sub 12 and it is impressive. The axiom is really well rated and the cheapest of the three. The svs has great output but does not have room correction. I am looking for a clean, tight sounding sub for HT and music but it has to have good punch. Is the svs overkill? Would a sub 12 be "better" because of the room correction? Just go cheaper with the well rate axiom and be done with it?

Any thoughts?

The 13Ultra will outperform the other subs you are considering it every way. It will play louder, deeper, and have lower distortion. It's really not even close. It's also is considerably larger than the other two.

Have the Sub12 in my store, took a couple of days to fully break in. Man does it play deep, loud, and very clean.

We had a Servo 15 in our theatre room, but that was sold months ago. We were forced to move the DSP3400 over there and my ears got used to it and I forget of really clean bass sounded like.

At first the sub12 seemed like it was a big drop off in output, that was until 2 days after initial setup the sub came alive.

Listening to the opening sequence of Quantum of Solace was bone shaking. BUT you could distinctly hear every detail in the bass. The rapid fire gunshots very fluid and the Sub12 caught each and every shot. The same cannot be said for the DSP3400 which was more like a muddy bass sequence.

Sub12 is an absolute winner.

My dealer recommended a DSP 3200 to go with my v4 Studio 40's and CC 590. It sounds like I should consider the Sub 12.

The 13Ultra will outperform the other subs you are considering it every way. It will play louder, deeper, and have lower distortion. It's really not even close. It's also is considerably larger than the other two.

The perfect bass kit really does make a difference and even if you go with the SVS you should look at their room correction add on or something like the Velodyne sms1. I wonder how many people with a svs and no room correction love how loud it gets but are really just listening to a big 40 hz bump thinking its great.

Paradigm's Sub 12 and Sub 15 with the Perfect Bass Kit is only eclipsed by the Signature Sub 25... And maybe a JL Audio G213 IMO.

I am interested in the sub 12. But two other subs are on my short list...the axiom EP500 and the svs ultra 13. They are within a few hundred dollars of each other. The axiom and the svs are really well rated but the perfect bass kit is tempting. I have heard the sub 12 and it is impressive. The axiom is really well rated and the cheapest of the three. The svs has great output but does not have room correction. I am looking for a clean, tight sounding sub for HT and music but it has to have good punch. Is the svs overkill? Would a sub 12 be "better" because of the room correction? Just go cheaper with the well rate axiom and be done with it?

Any thoughts?

The Sub 12 is great, and even better with the Perfect Bass Kit. In a small to medium sized room, I think you'll be very impressed with the Sub 12's performance.;)

mojomike,

I gather you've heard the above mentioned subs all in the same setup, well, I certainly hope so anyway.:eek::rolleyes:

The Sub 12 is great, and even better with the Perfect Bass Kit. In a small to medium sized room, I think you'll be very impressed with the Sub 12's performance.;)

mojomike,

I gather you've heard the above mentioned subs all in the same setup, well, I certainly hope so anyway.:eek::rolleyes:

Nope. I've only heard the PB13 out of all those, but I'd wager any amount that it will play louder, deeper and with less distortion than the Sub 12 or the Axiom 500. I am not saying it will automatically be preferred by everyone. That's a matter of taste and individual conditions. I'm simply saying that it will objectively outperform the others in depth, output, and distortion levels.

What about the sub 25? from the reviews i have read it is a Fathom Killer, and if you had 2 it would beat the gotham is that true?

I have to wait untill the new SVS PB16 comes out to make a decision on a sub. The sub 15 i hve to go and hear this weekend

Nope. I've only heard the PB13 out of all those, but I'd wager any amount that it will play louder, deeper and with less distortion than the Sub 12 or the Axiom 500. I am not saying it will automatically be preferred by everyone. That's a matter of taste and individual conditions. I'm simply saying that it will objectively outperform the others in depth, output, and distortion levels.

That sounds more reasonable.:) I was just a little surprised when I saw "outperform in every way" in your first post, especially considering you haven't even heard the other two subs.:eek:

Kenshin-himura,

Update us with your impressions of the Sub 15...;)

amazing that not more people have these subs...I would have thought they would have been a hot topic?

amazing that not more people have these subs...I would have thought they would have been a hot topic?
My impression is that you can get comparable sound quality for less money. This does not mean subs are not great, quite the opposite. Just if you are not ready to spend so much money for Paradigm, you can still get very good Velodyne sub (someone suggested Optimum 10) for ~30% less in $ terms. I did not perform personal comparison though, and, if anyone can jump in with Paradigm Sub 12 vs Velodyne Optimum 10 comparison, I'd appreciate.

I think the SUB 12 will kick the Optimum 10 so far away you need a telescope to see it.

I had a Servo 15 some years ago and when I bought my new system in January I picked up the Sub 15 to go along with the Studio 100 fronts, CC-690 center and Studio 20 rears. I like the sound of the Sub 15 a lot and I have not, as yet, balanced it out. I was reluctant to buy, for $400, the PBK and I'm looking at other options, like the AntiMode, but I will one day balance it out. As is it is still pretty nice. I live in an apartment so my volume options are limited and since I just signed another years lease it will be at least a year before I can move to a home where I can crank it up the way I'd like.

If pure volume is what you're looking for there maybe better options but if sound quality is your goal the Sub 12/15/25 subs are right up there with the best.


Brian

Can anyone comment on what the Sub12 would be like compared to the SVS PC-12 Plus or PB-12 Plus? I am a huge Paradigm fan, but I'm having a hell of a time choosing a sub, especially due to the cost of the new Paradigm subs.

Thanks,

Mark

Hello Everyone

I have not been here in a while i love the new subs from paradigm, especially the sub 25. I still have not purchased a sub as of yet, I am waiting to hear the PB16 Ultra and I will be hearing the sub 25 this weekend. The only bad thing about the sub 25 it does not come in black oak veneer only piano blk.

I have not seen any reviews for the sub 15, if anyone knows a link please pass it on. Just got back from a vacation spent most of my sub money savings.

I wonder if 2 sub15 or 2 sub 25 would out perform a submersive? Any thoughts

Saw a review of a studio 100v5 system that includes the sub 15 in their review at : "http://hometheaterreview.com/paradigm-studio-100-51-speaker-system-reviewed/"

I am more interested in reviews of the sub 12 if anyone knows of any, please post.

The SVS PB12 plus is probably more of a competitor for the sub 12. It is less expensive but does not have a room correction option. (They do have a single frequency PEQ which might help though). Two different philosophies...paradigm is getting their output with amplification (1700 W sustained) in a small package while SVS is getting their output with a larger size and considerably less amplification. I am wondering how they would compete with each other?

Any reviews out for both SUB 12 and 15? I just purshased a set of Studio 60's and CC690 center, I'm looking for a sub that would fit well with that kit!

I just picked up my second Sub 12 this afternoon!:D Can't wait to get her fired up! Sadly, I need another sub cable and a y-adaptor before I can hook it up, and I guess I'm at least a week out before I can receive these items from Monoprice.:( I'll give an update once I get everything connected and properly calibrated/eq'd.

Any reviews out for both SUB 12 and 15?I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.

I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.


Nice Kal, thanks for the heads up, can't wait for it to show up in my mailbox...

I would assume that they included the PBK "Perfect Bass Kit" along with that for you to add into your review, a mini ARC version for subs only...

I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.

Great! I look forward to it. When does that issue hit shelves?

Nice Kal, thanks for the heads up, can't wait for it to show up in my mailbox...

I would assume that they included the PBK "Perfect Bass Kit" along with that for you to add into your review, a mini ARC version for subs only...Mais, oui.

I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.

Hi, Kal

You cannot give us any info? January is a long time from now.

Any reviews out for both SUB 12 and 15?

Home Entertainment Magazine review:

http://www.hemagazine.com/Paradigm_SUB_12_Review

;)

Nice... I guess he likes it.

Thanks for the link.

I finally got my dual Sub 12 combo up and running this morning. WOW!!! I can't believe I went this long without a dual sub setup. What was I thinking???:rolleyes: Anyone who is debating a second sub, trust me, it's well worth the investment. My listening experience has gone from very impressive, to downright bone chilling. Ironman on BR easily equalled my previous best bass experience of The Dark Knight in IMAX. Transformers and Live Free Or Die Hard were also very impressive. Not to sound too gushy, but I'm left wanting no more.

The Sub 12 really is something very special...:D

congrats man

I finally got my dual Sub 12 combo up and running this morning. WOW!!! I can't believe I went this long without a dual sub setup. What was I thinking???:rolleyes: Anyone who is debating a second sub, trust me, it's well worth the investment. My listening experience has gone from very impressive, to downright bone chilling. Ironman on BR easily equalled my previous best bass experience of The Dark Knight in IMAX. Transformers and Live Free Or Die Hard were also very impressive. Not to sound too gushy, but I'm left wanting no more.

The Sub 12 really is something very special...:Dnice i was going to do a dual sub 15 mabey a dual sub 12 will do the trick

nice i was going to do a dual sub 15 mabey a dual sub 12 will do the trick

Maybe... I guess it depends on the size of your room. How big is your space?

For reference, my room is ~12x11x7.5, so quite small. I think if you get over that 2000 cubic foot range, a dual Sub 15 setup might be worth some extra consideration. I'm a bit of a bass head though...

I finally got my dual Sub 12 combo up and running this morning. WOW!!! I can't believe I went this long without a dual sub setup. What was I thinking???:rolleyes: Anyone who is debating a second sub, trust me, it's well worth the investment. My listening experience has gone from very impressive, to downright bone chilling. Ironman on BR easily equalled my previous best bass experience of The Dark Knight in IMAX. Transformers and Live Free Or Die Hard were also very impressive. Not to sound too gushy, but I'm left wanting no more.

The Sub 12 really is something very special...:D

Awesome BRAC!! Congrats on your second SUB 12!! So you are saying I need to get another SUB 25 then??? ;)

Hey BRAC,

Did you ever own a Paradigm Servo 15A/V2/Signature Servo? I am wondering how the SUB 12 compares specifically to the Servo 15A? I own a Servo 15A in a second system, it sounds awesome, but I am looking for something smaller that has the same amount of output. Do you think a SUB 12 could keep up with the Servo 15 in terms of output?

Thanks,
s

BTW, I WANT PICS! lol.

Awesome BRAC!! Congrats on your second SUB 12!! So you are saying I need to get another SUB 25 then??? ;)

Hey BRAC,

Did you ever own a Paradigm Servo 15A/V2/Signature Servo? I am wondering how the SUB 12 compares specifically to the Servo 15A? I own a Servo 15A in a second system, it sounds awesome, but I am looking for something smaller that has the same amount of output. Do you think a SUB 12 could keep up with the Servo 15 in terms of output?

Thanks,
s

BTW, I WANT PICS! lol.


I'm interested in a Servo 15v1 and SUB12 comparison as well. Currently I have the Servo 15 and love it, but I'm looking at the new SUB12.

Thanks,

Mark

Awesome BRAC!! Congrats on your second SUB 12!! So you are saying I need to get another SUB 25 then??? ;)

Hey BRAC,

Did you ever own a Paradigm Servo 15A/V2/Signature Servo? I am wondering how the SUB 12 compares specifically to the Servo 15A? I own a Servo 15A in a second system, it sounds awesome, but I am looking for something smaller that has the same amount of output. Do you think a SUB 12 could keep up with the Servo 15 in terms of output?

Thanks,
s

BTW, I WANT PICS! lol.

2 Sub 25's would be cracy.:eek: I HIGHLY recommend dual subs if you can manage it. My dual Sub 12's sound much more full and effortless. The extra headroom makes a big difference. The subs are hardly working, but yet I'm still getting huge spl.

I haven't heard the most recent Servo's, but I remember reading that the new Sub ** models can dig deeper and have higher output than the previous Servo designs. I can't confirm either way.

How's the Sub 25 been treating you?:)

To start, this is the first time I have reviewed a product before.

I have had a number of Paradigm systems from 4@Titan (V2) speakers and a PW 2500 sub. Then I upgraded to Studio 100 (v2), CC (v2), ADP (v2), and Servo 15 v1 about 5 years ago. Last winter we had a flood in our basement and the full set of speakers got written off. Because it took a couple of months to get all the work done, the V4 / servo were discontinued, so I was one of the first to get V5. They replaced my set with Studio 100 (V5), CC 590 (V5) which I paid the extra $$ and got the CC 690 (V5), ADP 590 (V5) and Sub 15.

If I had to quantify the improvement in sound, I would say it’s now twice as good as my old system. Even before I had the speakers broken in, my first reaction was WOW and if I don’t listen to the for a while I still say WOW how great they sound. I am running a Yamaha RX Z1, which is a little bit low in power to push the Studio V2, but now I find that the V5 the mid range to be not a sluggish and the high range to be clear. I would have rated the Studio 100 V2 as a great speaker. And I would say the Studio 100 V5 as excellent. The studio 100 V5 is such a great speaker I can’t see where they can improve. They are clear, great mid and has a great sound stage.

Now for the Servo 15 to Sub 15 comparison.

To start, the first sub I bought was a paradigm PW 2500. This was a good sub for movie lots of boom, a little slow but not the best for music. So I upgraded to a Servo 15 V1. This sub (servo 15) in my opinion did not have the room shaking boom during movies as the pw 2500 but product bass a lot more accurately. With the sub 15, you get all the room shaking boom with an accurately sounding bass. I know it’s not fare to compare the servo 15 V1 to the sub 15 because the servo 15 only had 400 RMS power vs the sub 15 has a 1700 RMS power rating with Ultra Class D power amps. If someone has the Servo 15 V1 and has the money the sub 15 is a great upgrade.

For the center if anyone is thinking of buying the CC 590, I thing for the extra $$ the CC 690 is a much better center. You get 2 more bass/mid drivers for not much more money.

The new Paradigm studio V5 line is a great series. The drivers that are now in the Studio V5 were the drivers they used in their signature series a couple a years ago for a lot less money from when they were in the signature series. If I was in the market, I would still choose the studio series because they have great value.

How do I connect two subs to the AV receiver? Do I need a "Y" splitter or something?

Also, should the two subs be the same make and model? I have an old Paradigm (9 years) and I want to hook it up to a Sub 12 (when I get permission and cash!!).

Will fine tuning be difficult with 2 subs?

I like to get the Bass Kit but will this work with the old sub?

How do I connect two subs to the AV receiver? Do I need a "Y" splitter or something?Yes.
Will fine tuning be difficult with 2 subs?
I like to get the Bass Kit but will this work with the old sub?The PBK will not work with the old sub.

Can anyone post pictures of their Sub-15 sub's ?

Regards,

How much watts of power does the Sub 12 require ?

Does it need a separate power outlet or can it be safely plugged into a decent Monster Power Center?

I checked the Paradigm web sites and their online brochures, but couldn't find this info.

Thanks.

How much watts of power does the Sub 12 require ?

Does it need a separate power outlet or can it be safely plugged into a decent Monster Power Center?

I checked the Paradigm web sites and their online brochures, but couldn't find this info.

Thanks.its always better to have dedicated for the subs. the sub 12 will work in any available outlet.

its always better to have dedicated for the subs. the sub 12 will work in any available outlet.

Why is that? I have my dual Sub 12's plugged into the same Monster Power Center as my Denon 3808, and all of my other gear, running to a single 15 amp circuit. I have yet to experience and problems at all with this setup. In fact, I haven't even managed to light up the 12 amp indicator light on my Monster Power Center, and I was hitting peaks of ~110-115db while watching Cloverfield this evening.:eek::D

Why is that? I have my dual Sub 12's plugged into the same Monster Power Center as my Denon 3808, and all of my other gear, running to a single 15 amp circuit. I have yet to experience and problems at all with this setup. In fact, I haven't even managed to light up the 12 amp indicator light on my Monster Power Center, and I was hitting peaks of ~110-115db while watching Cloverfield this evening.:eek::Devery setup is different. i tend to over kill my personal setups. if i do dual sub 15's each 15 will be ao a different phase. the same if i do 2 A5 Amps.

Well, it is getting close to decision time for me. In the next two weeks I have to decide between the Sub12 or the Sub 15.

Original plan was simple...sub12, then I was toying with the idea of a Sub15...but after reading a few posts about dual subs, I am now thinking dual sub 12. One now, and another down the road.

I have been without a subwoofer for 4.5 years now since I sold my old and dearly missed PW2200. I lived in an apartment then and I simply couldn't use it.

Then moved to a townhouse and thought about getting a sub, but I new it would have caused problems.

Now that I am in a detached house, it is sub time.

I am also thinking of getting the gloss black finish. Any thoughts on that?

I can't wait to feel real bass at home again. It's tough working at a store all day and feeling decent bass (store is not great accoustically), and not having it when you get home.

Cloverfield, Transformers, Star Trek, POTC...haven't watched any of these with anyting but decent tower speaker bass.

From what I understand the gloss black looks great, but by nature is also reflective, which can be less than ideal if you use a projector setup or if it reflects into your eyes or onto your TV. I think it also costs extra.

I have a single SUB12 in a small HT room (8X10) in a condo, if I can help you with any information let me know.

Mark

I don't know what I never thought about reflection in my HT room. I do use a FP (not currently as my basement is being demolished and rebuilt for my HT), but that makes very much sense. I guess it will be flat black...or rosenut...damn now I feel like a woman talking about colour and how it will match in with its surroundings.

Mark, how do you like the Sub 12?

I don't know what I never thought about reflection in my HT room. I do use a FP (not currently as my basement is being demolished and rebuilt for my HT), but that makes very much sense. I guess it will be flat black...or rosenut...damn now I feel like a woman talking about colour and how it will match in with its surroundings.

Mark, how do you like the Sub 12?

I really, really like it.

I also had an opportunity to try my SUB12 in a fairly large room before I moved into my condo. I was able also to compare it to a Paradigm Servo 15v1, SVS PC-12 Plus, and a Paradigm Ultracube. About 3/4 way down the page you will find my detailed thoughts and pictures posted in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1183879

It outperformed every other sub handily in the large room (its more expensive, though), and in my new, tiny HT room, I've got the gain around 1/4 and it is plenty loud. It provided the hit-you-in-the-chest visceral feeling that the other subs all lacked, and is the most crisp/tight sounding sub I have ever heard. It also provided me with bass sounds I've never heard before in music. It just sounds exactly how I would want it to. I think Paradigm really hit a home run with these. I don't have the PBK-1 yet, but I will be getting it soon, and it should make it even better. It has a nice small footprint too, which is nice.

Mine is matte black, because the rest of my speakers are, any other veneer is more expensive, and I use front projection so I don't want any reflections coming off the piano black near my screen.

I would think the SUB15 just has crazy output based on what I am getting from the SUB12 compared to the older Servo 15v1. They do have the same amps though (which I believe is actually 2 separate amps). Dual SUB12's would be spectacular, and the PBK-1 can handle dual sub equalization just fine (it's a derivative of the infamous Anthem room correction software).

Anyways let me know if you have any other questions I can help with. I think you will love this sub (or the 15).

Mark

I finally pulled the trigger on the sub 12. Haven't had much time to try it out alot. Just the test tone sounded awesome and demonstrated some creaking in my room. Pretty wicked.

I have a question for any owners. When it turns on, there is a slight popping sound and when it turns off, there is a slightly smaller amount of popping. Is this normal? Are any others getting this? I would have thought for something with audiophile quality, it would not do this. I have a $300 JBL sub in my family room that turns on and off completely silently. Any thoughts?

Thanks

I finally pulled the trigger on the sub 12. Haven't had much time to try it out alot. Just the test tone sounded awesome and demonstrated some creaking in my room. Pretty wicked.

I have a question for any owners. When it turns on, there is a slight popping sound and when it turns off, there is a slightly smaller amount of popping. Is this normal? Are any others getting this? I would have thought for something with audiophile quality, it would not do this. I have a $300 JBL sub in my family room that turns on and off completely silently. Any thoughts?

Thanks


Congrats on the purchase - you're going to love it.

I haven't noticed that on my Sub12, but I can check for you later tonigtht when I watch a movie. I bet I will hear some sort of small noise when it turns on though.

With other subs, I have noticed they make a faint "pop" turning on, and they thump when turning off, but from my experience that depends on the receiver. With our Servo 15 sub, an old Denon receiver and an Onkyo 906 receiver did that, but my Pioneer SC-05 does not. In 10 years it had absolutely no effect on the sub, I really doubt anything is wrong if yours is doing that too, but I will pay attention to what my SUB12 does and report back.

Mark

I really, really like it.

I also had an opportunity to try my SUB12 in a fairly large room before I moved into my condo. I was able also to compare it to a Paradigm Servo 15v1, SVS PC-12 Plus, and a Paradigm Ultracube. About 3/4 way down the page you will find my detailed thoughts and pictures posted in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1183879

It outperformed every other sub handily in the large room (its more expensive, though), and in my new, tiny HT room, I've got the gain around 1/4 and it is plenty loud. It provided the hit-you-in-the-chest visceral feeling that the other subs all lacked, and is the most crisp/tight sounding sub I have ever heard. It also provided me with bass sounds I've never heard before in music. It just sounds exactly how I would want it to. I think Paradigm really hit a home run with these. I don't have the PBK-1 yet, but I will be getting it soon, and it should make it even better. It has a nice small footprint too, which is nice.

Mine is matte black, because the rest of my speakers are, any other veneer is more expensive, and I use front projection so I don't want any reflections coming off the piano black near my screen.

I would think the SUB15 just has crazy output based on what I am getting from the SUB12 compared to the older Servo 15v1. They do have the same amps though (which I believe is actually 2 separate amps). Dual SUB12's would be spectacular, and the PBK-1 can handle dual sub equalization just fine (it's a derivative of the infamous Anthem room correction software).

Anyways let me know if you have any other questions I can help with. I think you will love this sub (or the 15).

Mark

I am lusting after the Sub 12 as well. My DSP 3200 was posted on the Canuck Audio mart last night so once it sells I will get a Rosenut Sub 12. Thanks for the good information

I finally got my dual Sub 12 combo up and running this morning. WOW!!! I can't believe I went this long without a dual sub setup. What was I thinking???:rolleyes: Anyone who is debating a second sub, trust me, it's well worth the investment. My listening experience has gone from very impressive, to downright bone chilling. Ironman on BR easily equalled my previous best bass experience of The Dark Knight in IMAX. Transformers and Live Free Or Die Hard were also very impressive. Not to sound too gushy, but I'm left wanting no more.

The Sub 12 really is something very special...:D

Brac,

Did you get the PBK with your subs, and if so did you set them both up with it? I've had my Sub12 for about a month now and I just did the setup tonight with the PBK. I don't know if it's just my room or not, but the setup sucked all of the good stuff from my sub. I started with the first shootout scene in Live Free or Die Hard and it sucked, you could feel a bit of bass but couldn't hear much. Then I tried The Hulk, Courtyard scene and it sucked huge.

The sub sounded great initially so I erased the setup. I'm ordering another Sub12 tomorrow after reading how many people recommend a dual setup, and because I'm bass hungry. How did you place your subs?

I almost forgot, PBK-1 for sale - $225 CDN.

Well, I've had a slight change of heart. I have decided to go for the Sub15 instead. Primarily due to that fact that ever since I purchase my original PW2200 ten years ago (and sold it and been without a sub for 5 years) I always wanted to purchase the Servo 15. So I am going to do right by myself this time and get the sub that I REALLY want, and the Sub15 in a nice Rosenut finish will be in place in about 3 weeks.

The next 3 weeks are going to be very long.

Had a chance to set up the sub correctly and run it through its paces. It truly is something amazing. First calibrated using PBK and then through Audyssey multi xt. Kung Fu Panda on BR was great. Deep extension and clear punch. No muddy bass here. Also ran Flight of the Phoenix on BR. The scene with the sand storm was amazing. It was room rattling, tight, loud and punchy bass. Fantastic. I bet a sub 15 would be felt rather than heard because of its low frequency extension but the sub 12 is really no slouch. I am really happy.

On the music side, I'll just say that you can HEAR every note with this sub. There is absolutely no muddiness.

BRAC, could you describe more about your dual sub 12 setup and what you noticed. Curious about a dual sub setup myself.

Brac,

Did you get the PBK with your subs, and if so did you set them both up with it? I've had my Sub12 for about a month now and I just did the setup tonight with the PBK. I don't know if it's just my room or not, but the setup sucked all of the good stuff from my sub. I started with the first shootout scene in Live Free or Die Hard and it sucked, you could feel a bit of bass but couldn't hear much. Then I tried The Hulk, Courtyard scene and it sucked huge.

The sub sounded great initially so I erased the setup. I'm ordering another Sub12 tomorrow after reading how many people recommend a dual setup, and because I'm bass hungry. How did you place your subs?

I almost forgot, PBK-1 for sale - $225 CDN.

Sorry to hear that... I did indeed setup my dual Sub 12's with the PBK-1 kit and it did help in my situation. I won't say it was night and day, because I was already making use of the MultEQ XT in my 3808, but it seemed to tighten things up a bit more. I tried to run my system with just the PBK eq and the bass sounded great, but I lost that "transparency" between channels that Audyssey does so well. So, basically I just kept the calculated PBK curves uploaded in each sub, then I eq'd the whole system with MultEQ XT. The results are excellent...

It could be that you are just not adjusted to a flat response. If you are getting huge peaks at certain frequencies it will certainly give you the impression of more bass, but the sub may in fact be revealing itself where it shouldn't be, due to poor room acoustics. I would suggest leaving the eq in the loop for awhile longer just to see if you can adjust. Another suggestion I have with regards to HT, and possibly music, is to run your sub a little HOT. I run my subs 2db HOT for movies. Most AVSers seem to be running their subs 2-3db HOT for movies, and some prefer even higher than that. An spl meter is essential for this process.

Btw, I used the exact same eq configuration on my single Sub 12, before adding my second, and that was my preferred setup when running the single unit as well.

Had a chance to set up the sub correctly and run it through its paces. It truly is something amazing. First calibrated using PBK and then through Audyssey multi xt. Kung Fu Panda on BR was great. Deep extension and clear punch. No muddy bass here. Also ran Flight of the Phoenix on BR. The scene with the sand storm was amazing. It was room rattling, tight, loud and punchy bass. Fantastic. I bet a sub 15 would be felt rather than heard because of its low frequency extension but the sub 12 is really no slouch. I am really happy.

On the music side, I'll just say that you can HEAR every note with this sub. There is absolutely no muddiness.

BRAC, could you describe more about your dual sub 12 setup and what you noticed. Curious about a dual sub setup myself.
More effortless, more open/full, less restrained, bigger sweet spot...

The benefits of extra headroom are HUGE imo. I think when a single sub isn't working so hard to fill a space, it will sound more clean and controlled when you add a second.

Sorry to hear that... I did indeed setup my dual Sub 12's with the PBK-1 kit and it did help in my situation. I won't say it was night and day, because I was already making use of the MultEQ XT in my 3808, but it seemed to tighten things up a bit more. I tried to run my system with just the PBK eq and the bass sounded great, but I lost that "transparency" between channels that Audyssey does so well. So, basically I just kept the calculated PBK curves uploaded in each sub, then I eq'd the whole system with MultEQ XT. The results are excellent...

It could be that you are just not adjusted to a flat response. If you are getting huge peaks at certain frequencies it will certainly give you the impression of more bass, but the sub may in fact be revealing itself where it shouldn't be, due to poor room acoustics. I would suggest leaving the eq in the loop for awhile longer just to see if you can adjust. Another suggestion I have with regards to HT, and possibly music, is to run your sub a little HOT. I run my subs 2db HOT for movies. Most AVSers seem to be running their subs 2-3db HOT for movies, and some prefer even higher than that. An spl meter is essential for this process.

Btw, I used the exact same eq configuration on my single Sub 12, before adding my second, and that was my preferred setup when running the single unit as well.

Thanks BRAC.

I think I figured out my problem. I did the MultEQ XT setup a couple of weeks ago and my receiver set the sub output to zero. I set it back to plus 12 and got my bass back.:D I ordered some Studio 100v5 and a 690cc/v5 yesterday so once I get those I'll have to do the EQ setup again.

Should I do the speaker setup first or the sub first?

Thanks BRAC.

I think I figured out my problem. I did the MultEQ XT setup a couple of weeks ago and my receiver set the sub output to zero. I set it back to plus 12 and got my bass back.:D I ordered some Studio 100v5 and a 690cc/v5 yesterday so once I get those I'll have to do the EQ setup again.

Should I do the speaker setup first or the sub first?

Sub first...

Hi guys quick question on my sub setup...right now I have a Def Tech Supercube 1 and getting a Sub12 sometime this week. Could the Supercube 1 be used in a dual sub setup with the Sub12 ? Would it sound "off" since they're two different brands and one's a 10" and the other one a 12" ? By the way, the rest of the setup is: Studio 60 v5's, ADP590 v5's, Studio 20 v5's, and a Studio CC v2 center (690 coming within the month), Pioneer Elite SC-05 receiver.

Dealer coming saturday with SUB 12 and PBK, also bringing (2) Revel C52's. I'll have (3) C52's for L C R on an overhead shelf and Revel M20 rears with MC12. For just 2 channel, the SUB 12 with front C52's mated to Parasound JC1's and JC2. Room is 10' x 9' and should be amazing.

Dealer coming saturday with SUB 12 and PBK, also bringing (2) Revel C52's. I'll have (3) C52's for L C R on an overhead shelf and Revel M20 rears with MC12. For just 2 channel, the SUB 12 with front C52's mated to Parasound JC1's and JC2. Room is 10' x 9' and should be amazing.take some pics

I can send easily with private email. Send me a PM and i'll be glad to.

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).2 sub 12's for a flatter response.

Flatter response can be easily acheived with the PBK. So is there any additional advantage to two subs over one?

Flatter response can be easily acheived with the PBK. So is there any additional advantage to two subs over one?it would further increase with 2.

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).


What is your room size?

Initial room size will be 11x18x9 and open to a staircase and a hallway.

But when the basement is finished then it will be in a 12x22x8 open to slightly open to another area.

I always wanted to own a Servo 15, and it just seems like I am giving up some bottom end if I don't go with the Sub15.

Where are the Sub15 pictures ? Come on people, don't be shy...:)

Regards,

I have a Servo 15 V2 I think and it did have a little extra low end than the Sub 12 as GammaCurve can attest to since it was his sub 12 we pitted against mine:D Mine is adjusted with Anthem Room Correction but the PBK is equally adept at fixing the LFE.
John

I wonder how the Servo LAM compares to the Sub15. It's still available so I wonder where it falls in the line up.

Regards,

I have a Servo 15 V2 I think and it did have a little extra low end than the Sub 12 as GammaCurve can attest to since it was his sub 12 we pitted against mine:D Mine is adjusted with Anthem Room Correction but the PBK is equally adept at fixing the LFE.
John

Was the difference in bottom end noticeable to the extent that it would make you purchase a 15 over a 12.

I think I am leaning towards a 12 this week, and then when the basement is comeplete some time in 2010, add a second sub 12. I understand the improvement in flatter response, a slight increase in dB.

But does any of that undermine the ability of IN ROOM low frequency extension that the Sub15 may have over the Sub12?

A 12" driver will move less air, and therfore only have less low end output compared to a 15" driver... of coarse this also depends on room size, If your HT is in a closet you should have no trouble getting good room gain down low... what I mean is if your room is small you can get plenty of good performance with a 12, but if its medium then go for a bigger driver, more excursion/power to dig deep. I have had subs that hit the mid to low teens but have grown to appreciate better performing drivers in the normal hearing range roughly around 20hz, a touch lower is nice, but not all that big a deal to me.. good output down to 17hz is more then plenty for me, with better mid and upper bass precision, punch and clarity IMO.


What is your room size...?


If you really want low output go with the bigger driver... add a second later down the road for better in room balance...

A 12" driver will move less air, and therfore only have less low end output compared to a 15" driver... of coarse this also depends on room size, If your HT is in a closet you should have no trouble getting good room gain down low... what I mean is if your room is small you can get plenty of good performance with a 12, but if its medium then go for a bigger driver, more excursion/power to dig deep. I have had subs that hit the mid to low teens but have grown to appreciate better performing drivers in the normal hearing range roughly around 20hz, a touch lower is nice, but not all that big a deal to me.. good output down to 17hz is more then plenty for me, with better mid and upper bass precision, punch and clarity IMO.


What is your room size...?


If you really want low output go with the bigger driver... add a second later down the road for better in room balance...

Initial room size will be 11x18x9 and open to a staircase and a hallway.

But when the basement is finished then it will be in a 12x22x8 open to slightly open to another area.

Initial room size will be 11x18x9 and open to a staircase and a hallway.

But when the basement is finished then it will be in a 12x22x8 open to slightly open to another area.

1782^3 in the first room and 2112^3 for the second... hardly a difference between the 2. You should be including all the open areas to these dimensions, but I can tell you that I have a F112 in my bedroom which is the same size as your smaller room which would basically equal the Sub12 and its stupid output, I don't feel the need to add a second even though I can't. You should get lots of low end room gain boosted performance which will be more then adequate IMO...

The 15 may get you a bit more rumble below 20hz, but not necessary IMO. I would go withy a 12 and add a 12 if you really feel compelled later down the line. Paradigms subs are sounding pretty competant, They deffinately upped the performance mark on their new lines of subs, and will likely easily perform on par with the JL's.

Room size is everything - it has taken me 3 x 18" + 1 - 15" in my great room (HUGE-MUNGOUS) to get the same performance from my single 12" in that small bedroom.

Was the difference in bottom end noticeable to the extent that it would make you purchase a 15 over a 12.

I think I am leaning towards a 12 this week, and then when the basement is comeplete some time in 2010, add a second sub 12. I understand the improvement in flatter response, a slight increase in dB.

But does any of that undermine the ability of IN ROOM low frequency extension that the Sub15 may have over the Sub12?

When we tried the two subs in my room, the servo 15 did go lower. My room is 14' x 25' and gammacurve's is 14 x 18. In my room and in his, there was a noticeable bottom end diff. Again, his had PBK and mine ARC. We tested many BDs and both of our impressions were the same. Is it worth the price, well that is a hard question to answer. No concern about $, go for it but your tastes will also affect your decision. I live in Mississauga and if you wanted to hear a test of the servo I could arrange a time for you to hear it or FEEL it with EQ on. It does make a lot of diff having the PBK or ARC correct the sub.
PM me if interested.
John

The title says it all. Would you go for a sub12 now, knowing that in a year you are going to add a 2nd sub12, Or would you go for a single sub 15 now, and no second sub later.

Getting my new sub next wednesday and am having a tough decision on this one. The Sub15 does stretch the wallet a little more all at once and I am thinking the better performance will come with 2 sub 12s.

Little help or advise (and two sub15s is unfortunately not an answer).


My understanding of multiple subs for our sized rooms is to improve freq. response. With PBK, this is unlikely to be an issue. Either the sub 12 or 15 will move air and PBK will fix freq resp. for multiple positions in your room.
John

My understanding of multiple subs for our sized rooms is to improve freq. response. With PBK, this is unlikely to be an issue. Either the sub 12 or 15 will move air and PBK will fix freq resp. for multiple positions in your room.
Johnmatjet has a 14 x 18 room using 2 sub 25's, i think he plans to add 1 sub 2. would that be overkill?or would that just improve the freq. response that much more?

Depends how hot he likes to listen, but it def will aid in evening out his in room response.... he should look at getting something like the DCX 2496 to taylor his bass response at the LP... the arrival times get messed up with different positioning... ask me, I know all about having subs scattered all over my room in different locations and distances.... I though it was good bass before, until I added the DCX to tweak each sub separately. Now things are absolutely amazing :) 4 subs 16kws of power behind them...

If he doesn't address the different distances which it sounds like he is going to add a sub just behind his seating location that will probably need to add delay so they all hit at the same time at the same place, he will have a muddied mess. blurring the bass instead of just adding to it and also adjusting the crossover for that rear placement sub, because of the different wavelengths they will not perform properly together... the rear sub being closer will need a lower low pass compared to the 2 that are placed right next to the mains if thats how he has them...

Depends how hot he likes to listen, but it def will aid in evening out his in room response.... he should look at getting something like the DCX 2496 to taylor his bass response at the LP... the arrival times get messed up with different positioning... ask me, I know all about having subs scattered all over my room in different locations and distances.... I though it was good bass before, until I added the DCX to tweak each sub separately. Now things are absolutely amazing :) 4 subs 16kws of power behind them...

If he doesn't address the different distances which it sounds like he is going to add a sub just behind his seating location that will probably need to add delay so they all hit at the same time at the same place, he will have a muddied mess. blurring the bass instead of just adding to it and also adjusting the crossover for that rear placement sub, because of the different wavelengths they will not perform properly together... the rear sub being closer will need a lower low pass compared to the 2 that are placed right next to the mains if thats how he has them...

Thank you for the advice!
Won't my processor Speaker distance set up accomodate for the different distances of the subs?
I figured the Paradigm Perfect Bass Kit would take care of the EQ.
I looked at DCX 2496 information, it looks like a time consuming, fairly complex project.

matjet,

IMHO, I think the freq response will be taken care of with PBK. For that size room it is hard to believe another sub is needed perhaps desired but not necessary. I was at the Paradigm factory home theater which is a huge room equipped with four sub 25s. I asked why they used four and the answer was, to smooth out freq that this room made difficult to tame and not to increase SPL.
John

When we tried the two subs in my room, the servo 15 did go lower. My room is 14' x 25' and gammacurve's is 14 x 18. In my room and in his, there was a noticeable bottom end diff. Again, his had PBK and mine ARC. We tested many BDs and both of our impressions were the same. Is it worth the price, well that is a hard question to answer. No concern about $, go for it but your tastes will also affect your decision. I live in Mississauga and if you wanted to hear a test of the servo I could arrange a time for you to hear it or FEEL it with EQ on. It does make a lot of diff having the PBK or ARC correct the sub.
PM me if interested.
John

What I am taking away from this is that I don't have a huge space to fill with bass, in either my family room, or the soon to be completed basement.

I guess my last question to you, John, is (in your opinion) was the lower extension noticeable to the point that when you switched back to the sub 12,
it took some enjoyment away. Or was the difference minor?

I forget that I have DIY subs and your subs have variable phasing, just make sure that is setup for the proper time alignment.... How do you run PBK for multiple subs as a whole.... ?

My understanding of multiple subs for our sized rooms is to improve freq. response. With PBK, this is unlikely to be an issue. Either the sub 12 or 15 will move air and PBK will fix freq resp. for multiple positions in your room.
John

I agree with your assessment of improved frequency response, but I have personally observed greater overall benefits by going duals. My room is open on one back corner leading upstairs and to the laundry area, but it would still be less than 2000 cubic feet of total area. At first I had one PBK'd Sub 12, and now dual PBK'd Sub 12's, imho the difference is very significant. See my post at the top of this page for a brief description of my personal impressions...

What I am taking away from this is that I don't have a huge space to fill with bass, in either my family room, or the soon to be completed basement.

I guess my last question to you, John, is (in your opinion) was the lower extension noticeable to the point that when you switched back to the sub 12,
it took some enjoyment away. Or was the difference minor?

I was used to my servo 15 so I was spoiled. The sub 12 sounds great in my friends theatre and he is very pleased. He was considering the sub 15 but cost was the final determiner. The diff is not a game breaker.
John

matjet,

IMHO, I think the freq response will be taken care of with PBK. For that size room it is hard to believe another sub is needed perhaps desired but not necessary. I was at the Paradigm factory home theater which is a huge room equipped with four sub 25s. I asked why they used four and the answer was, to smooth out freq that this room made difficult to tame and not to increase SPL.
John

You are correct, I don't really need to add more subs. The two Sub 25's provide excellent bass and impact, but I have the subs turned up a few db higher than the front speakers in order to achieve really good impact. I would like to attain even greater visceral/physical impact without pushing the subs. I think this can be accomplished by adding the Sub 2 in the back of the room (near the seating). I would use PBK to manage EQ and my processor speaker distance settings to manage distance/timing (along with phase dial adjustment on the Sub 2 to match the phase of the two sub 25's). I only use the subs for H.T., not for music.

Is this over kill? Of course it is over kill. Will it effectively improve bass and visceral impact without overwhelming the rest of my system with bass? I think it could work very nicely. However, any suggestions/advice are appreciated.

I have to agree thats how i want my set up two sub 25's in the front and a sub 2 in the back of the room. that would be a kiiler set up.

Just hope it would not be over kill because of how good the sub 25's are. What are you main speakers?

I have to agree thats how i want my set up two sub 25's in the front and a sub 2 in the back of the room. that would be a kiiler set up.

Just hope it would not be over kill because of how good the sub 25's are. What are you main speakers?

My right and left front speakers are B&W 802D. My equipment is listed in a recent Paradigm Sig 25 thread post.

Sub 12 has been ordered. I had a listen today at my store and decided that the extra savings for the Sub12 over the Sub15 can go towards Christmas and I can get the seccond Sub12 next year if needed.

Thanks for all the advice and I will post some pics and results/opinions when it is all setup and broken in.

I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.
Kal, nice review of the Sub 15. Thanks for the heads up to be on the lookout for the January Stereophile.

I have a review of the Sub 15 which will appear in MITR in the January Stereophile.

Looking forward to the review.

Any chance of reviewing the Sub 25 and perhaps the Signature S8?

Thanks,

Rod

Looking forward to the review.

Any chance of reviewing the Sub 25 and perhaps the Signature S8?

Thanks,

RodNot me. I couldn't move the Sub 15 without help.

Not me. I couldn't move the Sub 15 without help.

:D understandable. Both my Servo 15s and my Sub 25 are quite the handful.

Kal, can you comment on how it compares with its baby brother, the SUB 12?

Kal, can you comment on how it compares with its baby brother, the SUB 12?Cannot since I have not used the Sub 12. Your guess is as good as mine.

Well my Sub 12 finally arrived and is comfortably sitting on my family room floor waiting to be connected.

To anybody that is thinking about buying either the Sub12 or 15, do yourself a favor and consider a finish other than the black ash. I picked the rosenut and it is simply gorgeous.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/burnerp3h/sub12_2.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/burnerp3h/sub12_3.jpg

I'll give it a few days to allow the sub to break in as I know from having one in the store, it needed some time to really open up. I will post my thoughts then.

What ya got against black ash Sub 12's???:mad: Just kidding...;):D

Congrats man... Looks great... Looking forward to your impressions.

Hey Brac, how long after having your first Sub12, did you get your second one? I read a number of your posts and that helped me make the decision (along with Christmas budgetting) to start off with the Sub12 and add a second later on (this year) instead of simply going for the Sub15.

With regards to finish, I saw how amazing the rosenut finish was on the pair of Studio 10s and 60s were and due to the colour of the my brick fireplace, it was a no brainer. To be honest, it is the first speaker I have ever purchased that has not be black ash.

Hey Brac, how long after having your first Sub12, did you get your second one? I read a number of your posts and that helped me make the decision (along with Christmas budgetting) to start off with the Sub12 and add a second later on (this year) instead of simply going for the Sub15.

With regards to finish, I saw how amazing the rosenut finish was on the pair of Studio 10s and 60s were and due to the colour of the my brick fireplace, it was a no brainer. To be honest, it is the first speaker I have ever purchased that has not be black ash.

Hmmm, I think it was like ~3-4 months. Great choice, two Sub 12's over one Sub 15 is a very wise decision imho.

Btw, the rosenut really does look great. I have my dual black ash Sub 12's paired with my new cherry 5.0 Sig's and I'm really digging the mix. I'm thinking everything in cherry would just be too much.

My plan is an overhaul of my entire speaker system to Studio Series. Right now I am using 3 DIY front speakers which will be replaced by Studio 60s and wither a Studio Esprit, or CC690. Haven't exactly decided surrounds yet.

But after reading some of your info Brac, it made it relatively easy to decide to use two Sub12s in the end.

Well my Sub 12 finally arrived and is comfortably sitting on my family room floor waiting to be connected.

To anybody that is thinking about buying either the Sub12 or 15, do yourself a favor and consider a finish other than the black ash. I picked the rosenut and it is simply gorgeous.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/burnerp3h/sub12_2.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/burnerp3h/sub12_3.jpg

I'll give it a few days to allow the sub to break in as I know from having one in the store, it needed some time to really open up. I will post my thoughts then.nice:D

You have a very nice sub. This sub is going to be my next purchase once the basement is finished.

My plan is an overhaul of my entire speaker system to Studio Series. Right now I am using 3 DIY front speakers which will be replaced by Studio 60s and wither a Studio Esprit, or CC690. Haven't exactly decided surrounds yet.

But after reading some of your info Brac, it made it relatively easy to decide to use two Sub12s in the end.

For the center do yourself a favour and go with the 690...i just got that with the Sub12 and it's a monster of a center that kicks serious booty ! I already have the 60's in the front and if you're wondering on the surrounds, I have the 590's and they also kick serious you know what. You can check it all out in my gallery at bluray.com. I'm the same gates that posted there in the sub section about the Sub12 the other day.

You have a very nice sub. This sub is going to be my next purchase once the basement is finished.

Have you sold your dsp yet? I haven't checked CAM lately, sold the last one I had left and picked up the Sub 15 today. So far it's really good, I'll try out the pbk this weekend. Does anyone have any idea how long the break in period is?

For the center do yourself a favour and go with the 690...i just got that with the Sub12 and it's a monster of a center that kicks serious booty ! I already have the 60's in the front and if you're wondering on the surrounds, I have the 590's and they also kick serious you know what. You can check it all out in my gallery at bluray.com. I'm the same gates that posted there in the sub section about the Sub12 the other day.

Which surrounds did you have before the 590's. I have the 390's and can't decide whether to upgrade to the 590's. Is there a big difference than what you had before?

I had no hits on the DSP so I'm still holding on to it for now.

I had no hits on the DSP so I'm still holding on to it for now.

Did you go listen to the sub 12 yet? The biggest difference I've noticed so far are the parts of movies where the 3200 just doesn't go low enough. Movies sound alot different now, I'm hearing things I didn't know were there. Hopefully I'll have time to try the pbk tomorrow. When you get the Sub 12 you won't be disappointed.

Weird 23, how does your Sub15 sound with music ?

Regards,

Which surrounds did you have before the 590's. I have the 390's and can't decide whether to upgrade to the 590's. Is there a big difference than what you had before?

I can't talk to the 390's vs 590's. I had 190's which were about 6 or 7 years old. For that change, there was a huge difference.

I can't talk to the 390's vs 590's. I had 190's which were about 6 or 7 years old. For that change, there was a huge difference.have you compared directs to the ADP's?

have you compared directs to the ADP's?

No because I have my ADP's to the side and Studio 20's as rears. I didn't want all direct firing for my 7.2 setup.

No because I have my ADP's to the side and Studio 20's as rears. I didn't want all direct firing for my 7.2 setup.

Gates:
I just bought a pair of the ADP-590's. It will be awhile before I can hang 'em, but I do own a pair of the Studio 20's v.4. Could you tell me how the two compare, sound quality (overall). Yea, I know...it's kinda apples to oranges, the direct vs. "hybrid" dipole. The 590's sure have a LOT of speakers to it !;)

Gates:
I just bought a pair of the ADP-590's. It will be awhile before I can hang 'em, but I do own a pair of the Studio 20's v.4. Could you tell me how the two compare, sound quality (overall). Yea, I know...it's kinda apples to oranges, the direct vs. "hybrid" dipole. The 590's sure have a LOT of speakers to it !;)

Well I have 20 v5's for the rears and the only way I can describe the difference is that with the ADP's you don't always know where the sound is coming from. It throws the sound ahead and behind, but one thing I did hear from them is more bottom end than my old 190's. As for the 20's, I have them in the rears so they compliment the ADP's very well. But the sound quality is outstanding in either choice.

Well I have 20 v5's for the rears and the only way I can describe the difference is that with the ADP's you don't always know where the sound is coming from. It throws the sound ahead and behind, but one thing I did hear from them is more bottom end than my old 190's. As for the 20's, I have them in the rears so they compliment the ADP's very well. But the sound quality is outstanding in either choice.

Thanks for the reply. I will look forward to listening to them. I think I will hang them at 6' and cross @ ~70 or 80 Hz.

Weird 23, how does your Sub15 sound with music ?

Regards,

I ran the pbk last night and it really tightened up the bass. I still can't believe how well it blends with the mains. Right now I'm using studio 20 v5 and would like to upgrade to the 60's or 100's. The bass is deep and well controled, with movies I'm able to hear bass notes that my other subs would just not play. With music isn't not just one note bass and not boomy at all. Are you planning on getting a new sub? The Sub 15 is the best sub I've heard or owned. One day I would like to have another one, dual Sub 15's would be killer.

The Paradigm Sub 12 looks like a winner in every way (welllll...price and amps are a little high), but I like the footprint and the reported quality.
Question, please...a lot of you are going with two subs. Would you think that I could effectively use my Definitive Technology 2004 series "towers" w/ their 10" side-firing subwoofers in the front (L+R) and then place the Sub 12 in the back and get what you describe as a relatively "flat" response in the room? My room is 18'x10'x 7.5'ceiling.

Thanks for advice on this.

Did you go listen to the sub 12 yet? The biggest difference I've noticed so far are the parts of movies where the 3200 just doesn't go low enough. Movies sound alot different now, I'm hearing things I didn't know were there. Hopefully I'll have time to try the pbk tomorrow. When you get the Sub 12 you won't be disappointed.

Your killing me....LOL I haven't been to listen to one and I don't know if I want to after reading your posts. I had an agreement with the wife that if my bonus was over a certain amount, then a portion of the funds would be diverted towards a sub upgrade. Unfortunately, my bonus fell short so I'll keep going with the 3200. However, last night I picked up a Western Digital Live media player at Best Buy so I have satisfied my upgrade bug for the time being.

Are you planning on getting a new sub?

I've been thinking about it. I used to own dual MFW-15 subwoofers. But they were boomy as hell. Even with acoustic treatment and bass traps, bass for music sounded sloppy and muddy no matter how well positioned the subwoofers were.

So my next sub is going to be sealed, no question about it. I'm seriously considering the Sub15. BTW, how did the Sub15 sound before using the pbk ?

Regards,

I've been thinking about it. I used to own dual MFW-15 subwoofers. But they were boomy as hell. Even with acoustic treatment and bass traps, bass for music sounded sloppy and muddy no matter how well positioned the subwoofers were.




Can't dissagree with you on the love for sealed subs, but have you ever measured your in room response with REW. Boomy is a trait of having peaky mid bass...

My 4 sealed subs in my great room were incredibly boomy - powerful as hell and the kick in the chest was amazing, but it overpowered dialog and wasn't balanced.

Yesterday, we painstakingly measured and adjusted response, adjusted phase, xover, distance, and EQ for each. This is the end result measurement with NO ARC (room Correction) in my D2v enabled before I do a new room correction sweep.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/LMS/subsEqd.jpg

Did you EQ those MFW-15's. Did you ever take sweeps with REW like this one to see your room interaction and response..?

Can't dissagree with you on the love for sealed subs, but have you ever measured your in room response with REW. Boomy is a trait of having peaky mid bass...

My 4 sealed subs in my great room were incredibly boomy - powerful as hell and the kick in the chest was amazing, but it overpowered dialog and wasn't balanced.



Did you EQ those MFW-15's. Did you ever take sweeps with REW like this one to see your room interaction and response..?

Guess not....

Can't dissagree with you on the love for sealed subs, but have you ever measured your in room response with REW. Boomy is a trait of having peaky mid bass...

Guess not....

I used the Velodyne SMS-1 at the time. I hit a flat response but the boom remained. I know all the arguments in favor for and against the SMS-1 so I won't even bother defending the unit (I didn't like it, so I sold it). As I mentioned before, I added 4 GIK Tri-traps from floor to ceiling in the front two corners and the bass still sounded muddy. It reduced the decay times but bass still wasn't sounding tight...enough.

So one can chalk up these results in one of two ways; either assume the LF ringing was so severe that 4 Tri-traps couldn't nail it to sufficient levels or assume the sub, by design, added it's own ringing. If a sub is a relatively high Q design then by definition it will ring. If the cabinet is not well designed, it can 'ring' too. Clearly, in my opinion, this is/was a design issue, not necessarily a room issue and I know my fair share of room acoustics around here.

However, I recently added in a measly Jamo D6 THX Ultra sub in my room and guess what ? Bass sounded far more articulate and immediate in the exact same location.

I can imagine the Sub12/15 will sound even better.

Regards,

Well I'm glad to hear that you went to all lengths to try to address the boomy issue and still came up short on what would be a less then stellar product then... glad you could come back and clarify... I have a SMS-1 and there is nothing wrong with those units for a single sub in a room or possibly a pair depending on the circumstances. More then that - there are far better products to handle multiple subs... DCX-2496 worked everything for me perfectly...

I won't argue with you - I think the Sub 12 or 15 will easily sound better IMO...
I still think you can work out a DIY and get something for far cheaper regardless of your location, but no question it sounds like the Digms will have what you need in terms of clarity and punch.... :) good luck

Can't dissagree with you on the love for sealed subs, but have you ever measured your in room response with REW. Boomy is a trait of having peaky mid bass...

My 4 sealed subs in my great room were incredibly boomy - powerful as hell and the kick in the chest was amazing, but it overpowered dialog and wasn't balanced.

Yesterday, we painstakingly measured and adjusted response, adjusted phase, xover, distance, and EQ for each. This is the end result measurement with NO ARC (room Correction) in my D2v enabled before I do a new room correction sweep.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/LMS/subsEqd.jpg

Did you EQ those MFW-15's. Did you ever take sweeps with REW like this one to see your room interaction and response..?

Could you tell me about the benifits of using REW and is it user friendly? I've used the pbk and planning on getting some corner traps sometime this year. How would REW help me?

Could you tell me about the benifits of using REW and is it user friendly? I've used the pbk and planning on getting some corner traps sometime this year. How would REW help me?REW is a really dandy measurement system and it will design compensatory filter curves. The former is informative but the latter requires suitable hardware for their implementation. Unless you have a programmable EQ for that, your only use would be the former.

REW is a really dandy measurement system and it will design compensatory filter curves. The former is informative but the latter requires suitable hardware for their implementation. Unless you have a programmable EQ for that, your only use would be the former.
How would these measurements help me? I don't have a programmable eq, I'm using the mcacc from the elite sc 07 and the pbk. I don't really know anything about other programs beyond audessy and what I own. Thanks

How would these measurements help me? I don't have a programmable eq, I'm using the mcacc from the elite sc 07 and the pbk. I don't really know anything about other programs beyond audessy and what I own. ThanksDunno. In general, it will tell you a lot about what your system is doing in your room. What you can do with this information is up to you. Without additional hardware, it will, at most, confirm what MCACC/Audyssey is doing or motivate you to rerun them to get it better. Mebbe it will motivate you to try and see the effects of acoustical treatments.

Dunno. In general, it will tell you a lot about what your system is doing in your room. What you can do with this information is up to you. Without additional hardware, it will, at most, confirm what MCACC/Audyssey is doing or motivate you to rerun them to get it better. Mebbe it will motivate you to try and see the effects of acoustical treatments.
So would it show me which fq's I need to tame? Sometime this year I plan to add some room treatments, would REW be good to use before adding them? At some point in time I would like to add another Sub 15, would that benifit much or just be a diminshing return? What are your thoughts on the Sub 15? My room is 17 x 25 x 8.

I still think you can work out a DIY and get something for far cheaper regardless of your location, but no question it sounds like the Digms will have what you need in terms of clarity and punch.... good luck

I don't disagree. If I did go the DIY route it would have to be an IB, nothing else will work for me. Unfortunately it won't work in my current living conditions so my next best option would be a smaller sealed (acoustic suspension) design.

Not quite as articulate and real as an IB but much better than the MFW-15, in my opinion.

FYI, I realize that the SMS-1 works for many people, not to suggest that it's garbage or anything. But it's effectiveness would be greater when using analysis tools that show a finer frequency response, like REW, rather than depending on the core display of the SMS-1 (very course).

Although, in my opinion, even if I had reached theoretically the best results I could have attained with the SMS-1, I still don't think the end result would have sufficed. But that is neither here nor there....anymore. :)

Regards,

So would it show me which fq's I need to tame? Sometime this year I plan to add some room treatments, would REW be good to use before adding them? Yes.

At some point in time I would like to add another Sub 15, would that benifit much or just be a diminshing return? What are your thoughts on the Sub 15? My room is 17 x 25 x 8.???

Sounds like a case of alzhei......or downing a full bottle of Scotch within 2-3 minutes. Can do wonders for ones mental faculties...but I think weird 23 simply wanted to know how a second Sub 15 would perform in his size room.

Regards,

Sounds like a case of alzhei......or downing a full bottle of Scotch within 2-3 minutes. Can do wonders for ones mental faculties...but I think weird 23 simply wanted to know how a second Sub 15 would perform in his size room.

Regards,I know. Too many variables, including the people involved, to offer a useful answer.

Yes.

???

Sorry about not explaining myself properly, that last post was very late and I was getting too tired to think straight. I read your review of the Sub 15 this afternoon and that answered my question. Great review, keep up the good work.

Sorry about not explaining myself properly, that last post was very late and I was getting too tired to think straight. I read your review of the Sub 15 this afternoon and that answered my question. Great review, keep up the good work.

Can you shoot me a link to that Sub 15 review? I can't seem to track it down...:o Thanks.

Its not available online yet, you have to subscribe to the magazine...

Or you can buy it off the shelf.... Stereophile magazine - this months issue

Its not available online yet, you have to subscribe to the magazine...

Or you can buy it off the shelf.... Stereophile magazine - this months issueim headed to Barns & noble to check this out review:D

Its not available online yet, you have to subscribe to the magazine...

Or you can buy it off the shelf.... Stereophile magazine - this months issue

Gotcha... Thanks.

Its not available online yet, you have to subscribe to the magazine...

Or you can buy it off the shelf.... Stereophile magazine - this months issue

Gotcha... Thanks.
Kal would be proud.

Would someone please measure how wide the sub 12 is at it's widest point without the side feet. I need it to fit in a tight cabinet (14 3/4), and thought it might fit with out the side rigger feet.

Thanks

It says on their website under specs the widest width with feet....

16"

Would someone please measure how wide the sub 12 is at it's widest point without the side feet. I need it to fit in a tight cabinet (14 3/4), and thought it might fit with out the side rigger feet.

Thanks

It measures 15 7/8 right across the center - not the feet.

Damn, I thought without the feet it would be smaller. That bulge in the middle is larger than I thought.

Thanks!

Its not available online yet, you have to subscribe to the magazine...

Or you can buy it off the shelf.... Stereophile magazine - this months issuegreat review:D according to the review if im using the pbk, i will not need anything else as far a sub EQing:cool:

Hey i found a sub 15 review unless it has been seen already.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/home-theater-speakers/716-paradigm-reference-millenia-system.html?start=3

"The Sub 15 is, by far, the best sounding Sub I have ever had in my listening environment. It is capable of ridiculous output, as are many, but its greatest strength lies in the quality of bass produced. It certainly goes subsonic, because many times bass was only felt when barely or completely inaudible. Even my reference system (two Genesis 15 inch subs, each with 500 watt amps) produces much more sound than guttural feel. I don’t know how to divide the accolades between the PBK-1 optimization/equalization system or the death grip that the Sub-15’s 1,700 watt amp must hold on its 15 inch driver, but it’s scary good. While big subs can easily hit the lower notes, rarely do they maintain firm control over their woofers. Not true with the Sub 15, as this beast never once sounded sloppy. Even at low volumes, quality bass was there when present in a soundtrack and could be felt throughout the house. The words boomy or muddy are unlikely to ever appear when describing the Sub 15. It’s a remarkable and very pleasing experience when the perceived sensation of bass almost invariably exceeds its volume.

With music, the Millenia maintained their virtues on the mids to upper end but even with the massive and ridiculously powerful Sub 15, there was a noticeable gap between mid-bass and below until the Sub 15 kicked in. For music, I changed the crossover frequency to 150 Hz, and after recalibration with the PBK-1, things improved considerably, but I still felt like I was missing the critical snap and punch in this region. Bass and mid-bass were consistently tight, but I found them to be somewhat subdued or constrained for my own personal taste. Stated another way, mid-bass frequencies seemed slightly under-represented. Even though this is a front ported speaker, I’m guessing that the large driver surface area in relation to the Millenia’s comparatively small internal volume poses some serious physical restrictions on what it can deliver on the bottom. Certainly not unlistenable, but less punchy or snappy than I’m used to, particularly when listening to kick-drums or toms.

Finally, these speakers lean toward being slightly bright on the upper end. Not over the top or annoying, but again noticeable when listening to certain female voices. If your intended usage is primarily music, I’d consider other higher ranking members of the Paradigm family or from other manufacturers, where choices abound. While I’m not one to believe or advocate that there are good speakers for music and good ones for movies, I do believe the following. It’s incredibly difficult to design a speaker that occupies minimal space, looks astonishingly well suited as a companion to a flat panel TV, and still sound great. Are these Paradigm’s most musical speakers? Assuredly not. However, style clearly features large into this particular design, so slight detriments to sound quality are largely inevitable. None of these deficiencies were readily apparent when watching movies. However, be prepared to give up a little in musical reproduction if you’re wanting to enjoy the stunning aesthetics of this system. Paradigm does make better sounding and more musical speakers, but few, if any, look so well suited for the intended purpose of the Millenia system. I could easily get off my audiophile high horse and live happily with this system if movie or television watching was my primary utilization."

http://hotfile.com/dl/21726486/c7fb944/Stereophile_2010-01_www.storemags.com.rar.html

here is a link to download the the review on the sub 15. (stereophile)

I don't know if you guys know or not, but there are firmware updates for the PBK-1 and the SUB-12.

Here's the link:

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/downloads.php

I don't know if you guys know or not, but there are firmware updates for the PBK-1 and the SUB-12.

Here's the link:

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/downloads.php

What does the update do?

What does the update do?

I'm not sure. The guy I buy all my equipment through told me about it. I haven't checked into it yet because I'm in the middle of a HT build and I'll have to do my setup again once I'm finished. If you want to wait 2 weeks I'll be able to tell you then.

I'm not sure what's up with Paradigm's site but I purchased the PBK-1 to go with my Sub-25 in December and the software version with that was 1.2.0 which is higher then the website so they do not appear to be posting the correct version to the website. What version was people's PBK-1 at prior to 1.04? Was it 1.03? I'm curious to know if I'm the only one with a much higher version number and whether that's because my unit is so new.

I downloaded my PBK software directly from the website ~7-8 months ago and it is v1.2.0. I also updated both of my Sub 12's upon initial setup. I think the first sub was sometime in July and the second in October. I have no idea what firmware versions they are or how to even check. I guess one of us should contact Paradigm to find out what the current versions are, and maybe get some sort of breakdown of all the different versions. I'd like to know if the latest versions provide any worthwhile improvements. Maybe I should email Paradigm...

EDIT:

Corrected- It's actually v1.2, not v1.02 like I originally posted.

The current version of the PBK software is v1.04, which is available on their site now. You can check the version of your software by clicking the "About" button on the initial screen after launching the program.

Here is the PBK change log:

v1.04:
1. Added support for windows 7.

v1.03:
1. Added support for several new Paradigm subwoofers:
Signature Sub 1
Signature Sub 2
DSP Sub 3100
DSP Sub 3200
DSP Sub 3400
SE Sub
Ultra Cube 10
Ultra Cube 12

2. Minor changes to the error messages to help clarify what is causing the problem.

3. Added a check to ensure the subwoofer that is connected has been upgraded to the minimum required version.

v1.02.0:

1. Various bug fixes for the installation process.

2. Various bug fixes to PBK.

3. Added support for the Seismic 110 subwoofer

4. Uses vista compatible device driver.

v1.1.1:

1. Further improved vista Compatibility. (Errors relating to "Could not find valid microphone, check connection.")

v1.1.0:

1. Fixed bug in the measurement algorithm for low frequencies. If you open a file that was measured with an older version then v1.1.0 then it will automatically correct for the error in the measurements. You will still need to re-upload the calibration data to your subwoofer.

2. Improved Vista compatibility.

3. Various bug fixes.

The current version of the PBK software is v1.04, which is available on their site now. You can check the version of your software by clicking the "About" button on the initial screen after launching the program.

Here is the PBK change log:

v1.04:
1. Added support for windows 7.

v1.03:
1. Added support for several new Paradigm subwoofers:
Signature Sub 1
Signature Sub 2
DSP Sub 3100
DSP Sub 3200
DSP Sub 3400
SE Sub
Ultra Cube 10
Ultra Cube 12

2. Minor changes to the error messages to help clarify what is causing the problem.

3. Added a check to ensure the subwoofer that is connected has been upgraded to the minimum required version.

v1.02.0:

1. Various bug fixes for the installation process.

2. Various bug fixes to PBK.

3. Added support for the Seismic 110 subwoofer

4. Uses vista compatible device driver.

v1.1.1:

1. Further improved vista Compatibility. (Errors relating to "Could not find valid microphone, check connection.")

v1.1.0:

1. Fixed bug in the measurement algorithm for low frequencies. If you open a file that was measured with an older version then v1.1.0 then it will automatically correct for the error in the measurements. You will still need to re-upload the calibration data to your subwoofer.

2. Improved Vista compatibility.

3. Various bug fixes.

Does 1.02.0 = 1.2.0?

Looks like if you are up to at least v1.2.0, you are ok. 1.03 & 1.04 basically only add support for other sub models and Windows 7.

Do you have a breakdown of the individual sub firmware updates? (ie. Sub 12) And, any idea how to check the firmware version?

Btw, thanks for the info!!!

If the sub doesn't have the compatible firmware, the PBK software will inform you. But, you can just download the latest firmware and run it if you wanted to. I can't remember if it tells you what the sub's current firmware version is prior to running, though. I don't know the specifics of what changes the latest sub firmware includes.

If the sub doesn't have the compatible firmware, the PBK software will inform you. But, you can just download the latest firmware and run it if you wanted to. I can't remember if it tells you what the sub's current firmware version is prior to running, though. I don't know the specifics of what changes the latest sub firmware includes.

OK... Thanks.

Btw,

Does v1.02.0 = v1.2.0?

OK... Thanks.

Btw,

Does v1.02.0 = v1.2.0?I'm 99% sure it does.

It would be so easy for me to simply give my review of my new Sub12 in
one word...and the word would be awesome.

But that would take all the fun out of some of the incredible descriptions I have for the sub.

I'll start off with fit and finish. I purchased the Rosenut finish based on how that finish looks on the Studio 10s I have at my store look. I also have a red brick fireplace in the room, and it is a nice match. The build quality is excellent. The finish is stunning and the curved shape make it look significantly more stylish that my old PW2200 (retired 5 years ago).

The size is really nice as well as it is not as big as the Servo15 or the PW2200...but is still weighs a ton and moving it around is a big of a chore. But then again, I also have a NAD M25 power amp the weigh in just under 100 lbs, so that sub was actually easier to move than that.

There is definitely a break in period with this sub. I knew the from the one we use in my store, but right out of the box you can tell it is lacking on the really deep bass.

Now, after two weeks of proud ownership, this thing is awesome. When properly tuned in with both volume, crossover, and phase, it give you a visceral experience when called upon.

I'll start off with the power and impact of the sub. During the dragon fight scene in Harry Potter And the Goblet of Fire, the thuds the dragons tail make hit you very hard in the chest, but doesn't linger around either. The travel that the woofer has is amazing to watch.

Watching the woofer move hyperactively during Cloverfield was astonishing. It has incredible travel, yet maintains tight control. But I think the performance of the Sub12 that astounded me the most was its speed. It is very very fast. I still remember the performance of my PW2200. Lots of boom but slightly sloppy. Not with the Sub12.

Watching a scene from Live Free or Die Hard, Ronin or T3 where they are using heavy machine gun fire, the Sub12 is able to keep up with each shot. It literally can feel like somebody tapping you in the chest with the palm of their hand. I personally found that to be the most impressive.

So my conclusion is that the Sub12 is an amazing piece of equipment and that it has transformed my movie watching great to phenomenal.

Next, adding the second when the basement construction is completed.

It would be so easy for me to simply give my review of my new Sub12 in
one word...and the word would be awesome.

But that would take all the fun out of some of the incredible descriptions I have for the sub.

I'll start off with fit and finish. I purchased the Rosenut finish based on how that finish looks on the Studio 10s I have at my store look. I also have a red brick fireplace in the room, and it is a nice match. The build quality is excellent. The finish is stunning and the curved shape make it look significantly more stylish that my old PW2200 (retired 5 years ago).

The size is really nice as well as it is not as big as the Servo15 or the PW2200...but is still weighs a ton and moving it around is a big of a chore. But then again, I also have a NAD M25 power amp the weigh in just under 100 lbs, so that sub was actually easier to move than that.

There is definitely a break in period with this sub. I knew the from the one we use in my store, but right out of the box you can tell it is lacking on the really deep bass.

Now, after two weeks of proud ownership, this thing is awesome. When properly tuned in with both volume, crossover, and phase, it give you a visceral experience when called upon.

I'll start off with the power and impact of the sub. During the dragon fight scene in Harry Potter And the Goblet of Fire, the thuds the dragons tail make hit you very hard in the chest, but doesn't linger around either. The travel that the woofer has is amazing to watch.

Watching the woofer move hyperactively during Cloverfield was astonishing. It has incredible travel, yet maintains tight control. But I think the performance of the Sub12 that astounded me the most was its speed. It is very very fast. I still remember the performance of my PW2200. Lots of boom but slightly sloppy. Not with the Sub12.

Watching a scene from Live Free or Die Hard, Ronin or T3 where they are using heavy machine gun fire, the Sub12 is able to keep up with each shot. It literally can feel like somebody tapping you in the chest with the palm of their hand. I personally found that to be the most impressive.

So my conclusion is that the Sub12 is an amazing piece of equipment and that it has transformed my movie watching great to phenomenal.

Next, adding the second when the basement construction is completed.nice, do you plan to add a second sub 12? did you use the pbk-1?

It would be so easy for me to simply give my review of my new Sub12 in
one word...and the word would be awesome.

But that would take all the fun out of some of the incredible descriptions I have for the sub.

I'll start off with fit and finish. I purchased the Rosenut finish based on how that finish looks on the Studio 10s I have at my store look. I also have a red brick fireplace in the room, and it is a nice match. The build quality is excellent. The finish is stunning and the curved shape make it look significantly more stylish that my old PW2200 (retired 5 years ago).

The size is really nice as well as it is not as big as the Servo15 or the PW2200...but is still weighs a ton and moving it around is a big of a chore. But then again, I also have a NAD M25 power amp the weigh in just under 100 lbs, so that sub was actually easier to move than that.

There is definitely a break in period with this sub. I knew the from the one we use in my store, but right out of the box you can tell it is lacking on the really deep bass.

Now, after two weeks of proud ownership, this thing is awesome. When properly tuned in with both volume, crossover, and phase, it give you a visceral experience when called upon.

I'll start off with the power and impact of the sub. During the dragon fight scene in Harry Potter And the Goblet of Fire, the thuds the dragons tail make hit you very hard in the chest, but doesn't linger around either. The travel that the woofer has is amazing to watch.

Watching the woofer move hyperactively during Cloverfield was astonishing. It has incredible travel, yet maintains tight control. But I think the performance of the Sub12 that astounded me the most was its speed. It is very very fast. I still remember the performance of my PW2200. Lots of boom but slightly sloppy. Not with the Sub12.

Watching a scene from Live Free or Die Hard, Ronin or T3 where they are using heavy machine gun fire, the Sub12 is able to keep up with each shot. It literally can feel like somebody tapping you in the chest with the palm of their hand. I personally found that to be the most impressive.

So my conclusion is that the Sub12 is an amazing piece of equipment and that it has transformed my movie watching great to phenomenal.

Next, adding the second when the basement construction is completed.

Congrats! Glad you are enjoying it. I'm very happy with my duals.:D

Btw,

Just curious, where do you have it placed within your setup? And, what kind of setting did you end up with for your phase? I haven't experimented as much as I would have liked with my phase settings. It's a little tricky when you are flying solo.;) I have both of mine set to 0 in their current locations, just to the inside of my left and right fronts. Thoughts?

I'd like to see some updated pics of your setup?:)

Hi everyone, I'm considering buying a Sub 12 in the near future. Thanks for posting all the info on this sub.

Are you guys running PBK and then Audyssey (or whatever room correction your processor has) both before and after your sub's break in period? Does the PBK measurement curve change much after break in?

Thanks,

Pile

It would be so easy for me to simply give my review of my new Sub12 in
one word...and the word would be awesome.

But that would take all the fun out of some of the incredible descriptions I have for the sub.

I'll start off with fit and finish. I purchased the Rosenut finish based on how that finish looks on the Studio 10s I have at my store look. I also have a red brick fireplace in the room, and it is a nice match. The build quality is excellent. The finish is stunning and the curved shape make it look significantly more stylish that my old PW2200 (retired 5 years ago).

The size is really nice as well as it is not as big as the Servo15 or the PW2200...but is still weighs a ton and moving it around is a big of a chore. But then again, I also have a NAD M25 power amp the weigh in just under 100 lbs, so that sub was actually easier to move than that.

There is definitely a break in period with this sub. I knew the from the one we use in my store, but right out of the box you can tell it is lacking on the really deep bass.

Now, after two weeks of proud ownership, this thing is awesome. When properly tuned in with both volume, crossover, and phase, it give you a visceral experience when called upon.

I'll start off with the power and impact of the sub. During the dragon fight scene in Harry Potter And the Goblet of Fire, the thuds the dragons tail make hit you very hard in the chest, but doesn't linger around either. The travel that the woofer has is amazing to watch.

Watching the woofer move hyperactively during Cloverfield was astonishing. It has incredible travel, yet maintains tight control. But I think the performance of the Sub12 that astounded me the most was its speed. It is very very fast. I still remember the performance of my PW2200. Lots of boom but slightly sloppy. Not with the Sub12.

Watching a scene from Live Free or Die Hard, Ronin or T3 where they are using heavy machine gun fire, the Sub12 is able to keep up with each shot. It literally can feel like somebody tapping you in the chest with the palm of their hand. I personally found that to be the most impressive.

So my conclusion is that the Sub12 is an amazing piece of equipment and that it has transformed my movie watching great to phenomenal.

Next, adding the second when the basement construction is completed.

Thanks for the great review. I am still lusting after one of these but for now I am making due with my DSP 3200.

Upgraded to the SUB-12 recently with PBK and it sounded just right without break-in - 10'x9' mini bijou.

Upgraded to the SUB-12 recently with PBK and it sounded just right without break-in - 10'x9' mini bijou.any pictures:)

Yes but don't know how to do it. If you send me a PM, i'll send to your private email. Until i put in the SUB 12 with PBK, i never had the correct bass. Out went the SVS PB12 Ultra, also replaced the Revel C30 with the C52 and replaced MK rears with Revel M22's. A few changes and now a fairly small room with great sound and a large soundfield. Throughout the years you read articles in the mags on how to set up a home theater - everyone thinks you need a large room. Truth is, a tiny bedroom can have awesome sound with good gear and when done the right way.

Whats a good movie to give the sub 12 a work out?

Terminator Salvation has a ton of bass :)

Terminator Salvation has a ton of bass :)

+1
X-men(any of them)

Terminator Salvation was utterly stupendous for bass. I had to get up at the Harvester scene and make some adjustments as it was too overwhelming.

I have yet to PBK my sub and doing a frequency sweep (200hz to 20hz) there are some serious peaks and valleys around 80hz and 40hz that need to be smoothed out.

I'll tell ya, this sub astounds me all the time. And when I watched TS I was again shocked at how good the sub can be. Can't wait till next year when the second will be added.

Terminator Salvation was utterly stupendous for bass. I had to get up at the Harvester scene and make some adjustments as it was too overwhelming.

I have yet to PBK my sub and doing a frequency sweep (200hz to 20hz) there are some serious peaks and valleys around 80hz and 40hz that need to be smoothed out.

I'll tell ya, this sub astounds me all the time. And when I watched TS I was again shocked at how good the sub can be. Can't wait till next year when the second will be added.how long does it take to run the pbk? please post some before and after impressions.

I'm a Sub25 owner but the process is the same. It only takes about 5 minutes, if that to do the calibration. It took me longer to setup the mic and stand and reposition for the multiple tests then it took the software actually to perform the tests.

For me the difference was night and day. I ran the Sub25 for a few weeks without the PBK because they were on back order when I placed the order. During those few weeks I honestly thought I made a mistake in getting the Sub25 because it was just to powerful and to loud. My Lexicon MC-12BV5EQ could not even tame this thing with it's own EQ. The sub volume was set as low as it could go in the Lex without actually being off and I set my bass peak limiters to 75db, again as low as they could go and this thing was still one the verge of tearing my apartment apart. It was scary. Once I did the PBK calibration and then re-ran my Lex EQ, it was like I had a completely different sub. I was able to raise the peak limiters up to 90db to match my 2 Servo 15s and the volume in the Lex was able to be raised to the same level as the 2 Servos. The sound was incredibly solid, only loud when it was supposed to be and frequency dips were silky smooth. I was almost speachless at the change this little calibration package made.

Hey everyone. After reading all your positive comments about the Sub 12 I went to my local Paradigm dealer last weekend with the intention of buying one. I wound up buying their demo model Sub 15 for what I regarded as a pretty decent price. So far I love this thing. I'm going to be rewatching allot of blurays to hear what I've been missing. I'm very impressed with the performance so far.

Being a demo I know its been on the floor for a while but not too long since this model just came out last year. Anybody have any ideas when serial number 10000 was produced (mine's numbered just above 10000)? If you recently bought a Sub 15 approximately what SN did you get? I'm just curious how old my Sub 15 might be.

Hey everyone. After reading all your positive comments about the Sub 12 I went to my local Paradigm dealer last weekend with the intention of buying one. I wound up buying their demo model Sub 15 for what I regarded as a pretty decent price. So far I love this thing. I'm going to be rewatching allot of blurays to hear what I've been missing. I'm very impressed with the performance so far.

Being a demo I know its been on the floor for a while but not too long since this model just came out last year. Anybody have any ideas when serial number 10000 was produced (mine's numbered just above 10000)? If you recently bought a Sub 15 approximately what SN did you get? I'm just curious how old my Sub 15 might be.
enjoy post some pics

I have a Paradigm Servo 15. Considering getting a sub 12 or sub 15. Anybody make the same transition? Any feedback as far as was it comparable performance, better, worse?

I have a Paradigm Servo 15. Considering getting a sub 12 or sub 15. Anybody make the same transition? Any feedback as far as was it comparable performance, better, worse?


I did but I could not make an A/B comparison because I'd parted with the Servo 15 a few years earlier. Still, my subjective opinion is that the new Sub 15 is better than the 2001 vintage Servo 15 and that's saying a lot because the Servo 15 was no slouch...


Brian

I did but I could not make an A/B comparison because I'd parted with the Servo 15 a few years earlier. Still, my subjective opinion is that the new Sub 15 is better than the 2001 vintage Servo 15 and that's saying a lot because the Servo 15 was no slouch...


Brianthat cant good for paradigm's sub 25 sales

I have a Paradigm Servo 15. Considering getting a sub 12 or sub 15. Anybody make the same transition? Any feedback as far as was it comparable performance, better, worse?
http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_40/#

http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_40/#


Thank you for the link. Exactly what I was looking for :)

In the thread for the sub25, a poster stated that the sub25 outperformed the seaton Submerssive. This is a huge accomplishment, especially for a single 15. I wonder how the sub15 would stack up...

In the thread for the sub25, a poster stated that the sub25 outperformed the seaton Submerssive. This is a huge accomplishment, especially for a single 15. I wonder how the sub15 would stack up...

Hi There,

I also stated that there was no winner, because the submersive was just as awesome as the sub25, but it seemed that the sub 25 played cleaner, tighter and easier than the submersive from what i saw and heard.

The only way to really tell would be a side by side comparison. But for a sub with one driver versus two it is an accomplishment. The rooms where different for each sub that i heard them in and they both went really loud.

Still really impressive! I know the Sub25 cost twice as much as the submersive, but it is still an accomplishment

Ok, considering the Sub 12, Sub 15 of SVS ultra 13. I tried doing a search on this thread and couldn't really see any comparison with the SVS ultra 13. Anybody heard both one of the new Paradigm sub12/15 versus the SVS ultra 13? I currently have the Servo 15 and have an itch for an upgrade :)

here is a review from Kal Rubison on the sub 15

http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_40/#

here is a review from Kal Rubison on the sub 15

http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_40/#good review only one?

WOuld it really take two Sub 15's to match the output and extension of the Sub 25?

WOuld it really take two Sub 15's to match the output and extension of the Sub 25?

Well, one Sub 15 would likely fall a "little" short. So, yes...

WOuld it really take two Sub 15's to match the output and extension of the Sub 25?yep

But were forgetting on a 240 volt line is where the sub25 is suppose to excel and get the full benefit of 3000watts and a peak 7500watts.

Maybe that is where you will need 2 sub 15's to go up against one sub 25. I have listend to the sub 25 but only on the 120volt line.

But were forgetting on a 240 volt line is where the sub25 is suppose to excel and get the full benefit of 3000watts and a peak 7500watts.

Maybe that is where you will need 2 sub 15's to go up against one sub 25. I have listend to the sub 25 but only on the 120volt line.that will be a nice test 2 sub 15's vs. 1 Sub 25

But were forgetting on a 240 volt line is where the sub25 is suppose to excel and get the full benefit of 3000watts and a peak 7500watts.

Maybe that is where you will need 2 sub 15's to go up against one sub 25. I have listend to the sub 25 but only on the 120volt line.

Mostly marketing fluff imho. What could possibly be gained by this? Seriously?

according to paradigm better performance. you can only fluff so much people are not that stupid especially if there is not a difference you return the sub they lose a sale. It would be really dumb i t hink if they did that.

Mostly marketing fluff imho. What could possibly be gained by this? Seriously?too bad none of the reviews were able to back a forth between 240v and 120v. if its not fluf, then it will be a big thumbs up for paradigm

according to paradigm better performance. you can only fluff so much people are not that stupid especially if there is not a difference you return the sub they lose a sale. It would be really dumb i t hink if they did that.

Yes ok, like Paradigm would never exaggerate to get sales... And the Sub 2 is the best subwoofer in the world too. How could they possibly know that???

we all know everyone gives extra props for their stuff read what nick from anthem said in thesub25 thread.

How much fluff can one really give you know what i mean. because they can easily be proven wrong

we all know everyone gives extra props for their stuff read what nick from anthem said in thesub25 thread.

How much fluff can one really give you know what i mean. because they can easily be proven wrong

Well, I guess we'll find out if an unbiased third party ever does a comparison of the 120 vs 240. Until then it's all just speculation. I will be shocked if the difference amounts to much at all...

if that will happen that would be great. did you read what nick said how they got 9hz? if not paradigm sub 25 thread

So I just ordered the Sub15. Should be to my dealer by Monday. Looking forward to listening to the new toy.:)

So I got the my new Sub 15 last night. A little smaller physically then my Servo15 but actually heavier. I played some bass heavy music for an hour just to get it to break in a little bit and then started doing some more serious listening. Much like the Sub12 I auditioned (didn't have the sub15 for demo), the SUB15 is buttery. Hard to describe so that is the best term I can come up with. It is smooth and quick. So far DADDY LIKEY!!!! :)

So I got the my new Sub 15 last night. A little smaller physically then my Servo15 but actually heavier. I played some bass heavy music for an hour just to get it to break in a little bit and then started doing some more serious listening. Much like the Sub12 I auditioned (didn't have the sub15 for demo), the SUB15 is buttery. Hard to describe so that is the best term I can come up with. It is smooth and quick. So far DADDY LIKEY!!!! :)cool, hopefully this weekend i will be able to do A/B test between the sub 25 and sub 15.

post some pics:D

cool, hopefully this weekend i will be able to do A/B test between the sub 25 and sub 15.

post some pics:D

My dealer doesn't carry the Signature line (only up to the Studio line) or else I am sure I would have auditioned the Sub 25 just for fun. The Sub 25 is more then I am willing to spend so it was never in consideration.

anyone here compare the sub 12/15 with the rythmik 12 or 15 subs?

cool, hopefully this weekend i will be able to do A/B test between the sub 25 and sub 15.

post some pics:D
How r u going to go about doing the test?

How r u going to go about doing the test?


I took it as an informal audition...not a true test such as a "double blind" test.

I have a sale pending on my DSP3200. Now I get to buy that Sub 12 I have been lusting after !!!

I have a sale pending on my DSP3200. Now I get to buy that Sub 12 I have been lusting after !!!

Congrats. I am sure you will love the new sub.

Now I get to buy that Sub 12 I have been lusting after !!!

Maybe you can get into the same program Tiger Woods just "graduated" from.:rolleyes:

Hi all,

Congrats to all the sub 12 owners out there...it is an amazing little sub!

I have had my sub 12 for a few months now. It was PBK'd first and then I ran audyssey using the denon4310. I have paradigm studio 60's, CC690 and axiom qs8's to round out the system.

This is where I think I can definitely tell what pbk did. In two channel listening with CD's running pure direct - no sub, the studio 60's (which are great speakers) emphasize some base frequencies. Go into stereo mode and introduce the sub and the emphasized bass notes are gone. You just get smooth articulate bass from the sub 12. Audyssey equalizes the studio 60's and flattens out their response. Also the cross-over gets bumped up to 80 Hz.

So I know that many of you know this but the room can really have a huge impact on the sound. So when comparing subs, you really have to keep that in mind. One sub might have more impact than another just based on placement in the room.

The movie that really made me smile with the sub 12 was hurt locker. There is a scene near the beginning where the bomb is triggered by the guy on a cell phone that just rattled the place (no resonances in the HT though). My wife said glasses were shaking (12 feet vertically and 40 feet horizontally from the sub 12). OH YEAH! The amazing thing is that I could continue to turn it up and the sub 12 would continue to produce. Just phenomenal! Another part in the movie is where they are pinned down by a sniper in the desert and one of them hops on the 50 mm gun on the humv. Tight tight bass! You could feel every shot.

Other movies that had really good LFE (not throughout the whole movie but definitely good parts)
Flight of the pheonix (plane crash scene...this is my preferred demo)
Chronicles of Riddick (lots of bass through out)
Max Payne (near the end where he slowly leans back with the shot gun)
9 (the animated feature) - (when the robot factory explodes)

Hi all,

Congrats to all the sub 12 owners out there...it is an amazing little sub!

I have had my sub 12 for a few months now. It was PBK'd first and then I ran audyssey using the denon4310. I have paradigm studio 60's, CC690 and axiom qs8's to round out the system.

This is where I think I can definitely tell what pbk did. In two channel listening with CD's running pure direct - no sub, the studio 60's (which are great speakers) emphasize some base frequencies. Go into stereo mode and introduce the sub and the emphasized bass notes are gone. You just get smooth articulate bass from the sub 12. Audyssey equalizes the studio 60's and flattens out their response. Also the cross-over gets bumped up to 80 Hz.

So I know that many of you know this but the room can really have a huge impact on the sound. So when comparing subs, you really have to keep that in mind. One sub might have more impact than another just based on placement in the room.

The movie that really made me smile with the sub 12 was hurt locker. There is a scene near the beginning where the bomb is triggered by the guy on a cell phone that just rattled the place (no resonances in the HT though). My wife said glasses were shaking (12 feet vertically and 40 feet horizontally from the sub 12). OH YEAH! The amazing thing is that I could continue to turn it up and the sub 12 would continue to produce. Just phenomenal! Another part in the movie is where they are pinned down by a sniper in the desert and one of them hops on the 50 mm gun on the humv. Tight tight bass! You could feel every shot.

Other movies that had really good LFE (not throughout the whole movie but definitely good parts)
Flight of the pheonix (plane crash scene...this is my preferred demo)
Chronicles of Riddick (lots of bass through out)
Max Payne (near the end where he slowly leans back with the shot gun)
9 (the animated feature) - (when the robot factory explodes)

Check out Terminator Salvation... Last night I took the grills off my dual Sub 12's during the 7 Eleven scene just for fun. The excursion on display was a sight to behold.:eek: Very impressive!:D

Sub 12's are the cats ass. Do any of you owners out there have your sub12 on a subdude or gramma?

What are some of the best cables to eliminate noise from my paradigm sub. I currently have the Monster M series 850, but am just wondering what others experiences with other cables have been. I heard AudioQuest is good, but not all expensive cables are the best as everyone knows. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks

Noise is not a problem solved by spending money. It can only be resolved by diagnosis and cure. Find the reason for and source of the noise.

Noise is not a problem solved by spending money. It can only be resolved by diagnosis and cure. Find the reason for and source of the noise.

But don't all subs transmit some kind of hum or slight noise?

But don't all subs transmit some kind of hum or slight noise?No. Only cheap ones or defective ones. In addition, poorly set up systems may have hum/noise that is only revealed by the sub as the other speakers may lack the bass extension. I have 4 subs (2 Paradigms in one system and one other sub in each of the other two systems). None make any significant noise except for the signals they get.

Most of the time the main cause of noise with subs is 50/60 cycle hum caused by the sub being powered by a different outlet than the amp/AVR. I would suggest trying to plug the sub into the same outlet as the amp/AVR and to do so without using an extension cord (may have to move sub closer to amp/AVR). If the noise goes away it would tend to confirm that as the problem. If the noise does not go away then there maybe something wrong with the sub.


Brian

Sub 12's are the cats ass. Do any of you owners out there have your sub12 on a subdude or gramma?

Anyone?

Anyone?

No...

A SoCal dealer told me the Sub 12 is more musical than the Sub 15, based on his own listening experience and the one he is considering purchasing for himself. If the dealer's assessment is true, I could only guess that the smaller diameter of the Sub 12 allows it to have a much lower Qtc and hence achieve better damping. This may also explain why the Sub 1 & Sub 2 have small drivers as well.

Has anyone listened to both Sub 12 and 15? What were your conclusions? No one in this area carries both so I can't do direct comparisons.

A SoCal dealer told me the Sub 12 is more musical than the Sub 15, based on his own listening experience and the one he is considering purchasing for himself. If the dealer's assessment is true, I could only guess that the smaller diameter of the Sub 12 allows it to have a much lower Qtc and hence achieve better damping. This may also explain why the Sub 1 & Sub 2 have small drivers as well.

Has anyone listened to both Sub 12 and 15? What were your conclusions? No one in this area carries both so I can't do direct comparisons.

Could be true... What is your main use, HT or music? Sub 15 for sure if it's HT.