Well, I just had my 50" Kuro 5020FD delivered yesterday along with a replacement 58" Panny 850U. I also have a 40" Samsung LCD (Left TV in pic)

I truly believe (regardless what anyone says) The Panny and the Kuro are the 2 best TV's money can buy.

I popped in Baraka, Dark Knight and a couple other BD's. I compared both TV's on SD and HD.

The Kuro was on standard mode and the Panny on Studio Reference mode.

Here are my initial impressions.

Kuro's standard mode really surprised me. Actually I was shocked how bright and crisp "standard mode" is. On my panny or any other of my TV's I've owned, standard mode tends to be very dull. But man, it's looks fantastic on the Kuro. Biggest surprise.

There is just something about the Pioneer. You cant understand it until you own one. It's honestly like owning a Ferrari. You just feel as if everything is put together correctly. (I'm actually proud to be an owner of one. Sounds weird I know). Remote is nice, menu options are great and WOW, the speakers on the TV are CRAZY! TV sounds amazing.

On certain scenes of DK, and Baraka, I was kinda shocked how close the Panny actually was to the Kuro. But, overall, YES, the Kuro has a better picture with Blu Ray movies and HD/SD TV.

I do NOT hear any buzz from the Kuro unless I stick my ear directly on the TV in the back. So, in my mind I have Zero buzz. Same holds true with the Panny.

Picture:
Pioneer 10
Panny 8.5

I originally bought the Panny (a month ago) because I wasn't sure I would like Plasma's (I was a huge LCD guy). So, If I had to do it all over again, I would of bought a 60" Pioneer Elite, and a 50" Panny (or at these prices, I would of bought a non elite for the bedroom).

Both TV's are razor sharp (Kuro a bit sharper). crisp, detailed, and handle well lit rooms with NO problems.

Black levels....Yes, the Kuro has better blacks. Need I say more? :)

My GF who knows zero about TV's, nor cares to much about picture quality walked into the bedroom and seriously freaked. She seemed more happy than me.

If anyone is on the fence about buying a Pioneer (especially at these prices) and is unsure if they should spend the money, I'd say yes its worth it.

The panny is a fantastic TV. If you don't have the money for a Pioneer, you will still be extremely happy and surprised with the TV. If it wasn't for the Pioneer in my home, I would of thought the Panny was the best TV made.

So, The Kuro would be a Ferrari and the Panny a BMW. BMW's are great cars, but if you had the money, the Ferrari is so much better.


Let the discussion begin!

Thanks for your comparisons; they seem in line with most I've seen, as well as my own impressions (although not side-by-side like you had the opportunity to do, at least in a proper setup).

I have a 5010, and will be taking delivery of a 151 this week (or next). I am convinced that the people who claim that the picture difference between a Kuro and anything else is negligible either 1) never saw one properly set up, 2) couldn't afford one, and are trying to convince themselves that the difference isn't that great, or 3) just hate plasma for whatever reason.

I convinced my parents to pick up a Panasonic 42px80u last week, and they're very happy. However, they even know that the picture of my 5010 is much better than theirs. For them, though, the price difference was the factor, and since they were coming from a 25 year old console TV, the step to the Panasonic was huge.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if you're in the market for a flat panel, and can afford it, don't even think twice about picking up a Kuro. If the price makes you balk, then get a Panasonic and be happy with it, but do yourself a favor and try not to make comparisons with a Kuro after the fact.

Thanks for your comparisons; they seem in line with most I've seen, as well as my own impressions (although not side-by-side like you had the opportunity to do, at least in a proper setup).

I have a 5010, and will be taking delivery of a 151 this week (or next). I am convinced that the people who claim that the picture difference between a Kuro and anything else is negligible either 1) never saw one properly set up, 2) couldn't afford one, and are trying to convince themselves that the difference isn't that great, or 3) just hate plasma for whatever reason.

I convinced my parents to pick up a Panasonic 42px80u last week, and they're very happy. However, they even know that the picture of my 5010 is much better than theirs. For them, though, the price difference was the factor, and since they were coming from a 25 year old console TV, the step to the Panasonic was huge.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if you're in the market for a flat panel, and can afford it, don't even think twice about picking up a Kuro. If the price makes you balk, then get a Panasonic and be happy with it, but do yourself a favor and try not to make comparisons with a Kuro after the fact.

Exactly!

May I ask why "Standard"?
Seems you have few better options or at least one for accuracy, no?

May I ask why "Standard"?
Seems you have few better options or at least one for accuracy, no?

I am so new to the TV, I went with what my buddy told me to try. On the Panny, I knew what settings I liked the best on custom mode, but for an initial test, I didn't want to tweak either TV. The more familiar I become with the Kuro, the more I will be able to understand what mode/settings are the best.

Oh....yeah, you're going to have some fun when you start to dial in the Kuro. :)
D-Nice's settings are a great starting point to work with.

Thanks for the small first hand write-up....seems everyone likes both the 850 and kuro.
'09 should be an even better year for plasma....good times!
Enjoy your toys!

Oh....yeah, you're going to have some fun when you start to dial in the Kuro. :)
D-Nice's settings are a great starting point to work with.

Thanks for the small first hand write-up....seems everyone likes both the 850 and kuro.
'09 should be an even better year for plasma....good times!
Enjoy your toys!

I cant wait to really start adjusting the set. To bad it's not the Elite. Knowing myself, I'm sure I will be buying the next big Kuro Elite when it comes out. (Sooner or later I have to quit buying TV's once a year) :)

I'm watching the screen actors guild awards right now and I have to say The Panny is holdings it own. I can't decide which TV looks better. Kinda surprised.

Edit:
Going to give the slight notch to the Panny.

Edit again:

My girl thinks the Kuro looks a bit crisper, if that makes sense. She thinks the Panny is definitely neck and neck with it. So, for now, it's almost a tie with maybe the edge going to the Kuro. but it's soooo hard to tell!

Bottom line, The panny is a great tv.

I'm watching the screen actors guild awards right now and I have to say The Panny is holdings it own. I can't decide which TV looks better. Kinda surprised.

Edit:
Going to give the slight notch to the Panny.

Edit again:

My girl thinks the Kuro looks a bit crisper, if that makes sense. She thinks the Panny is definitely neck and neck with it. So, for now, it's almost a tie with maybe the edge going to the Kuro. but it's soooo hard to tell!

Bottom line, The panny is a great tv.


I don't think I would use cable for comparison as far PQ is concerned. While it does play a significant role, in that it allows you see to each one handles a poor signal, it is widely known that the Pioneers (the Elites anyway), are typically viewed in Pure mode, which has no processing to the signal whatsoever. Also, the NE's are lacking in the NR features.

Pop in a letterboxed BD, and let us know your impressions between the two.

I am so new to the TV, I went with what my buddy told me to try. On the Panny, I knew what settings I liked the best on custom mode, but for an initial test, I didn't want to tweak either TV. The more familiar I become with the Kuro, the more I will be able to understand what mode/settings are the best.

Get out of standard mode immediatly and get into Movie.

Put in D-Nices reference settings;

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 38
Brightness: -1
Color: -4
Tint: R1
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 2

Last edited by D-Nice; 07-28-08 at 02:50 PM




Turn the sharpness up as much as you want (your preference)

also, you can turn the contrast up to 40 if you like (but I wouldn't go higher than 40 personally)

please do this and then report back if you see an improvement.:D

-Chad

At the risk of offending certain..umm.."fans" of the technology.....how does the Samsung lcd compare to the two plasmas?

Looking forward to your reviews and comparisons once the sets are both properly calibrated. Don't be afraid to include the Samsung LCD in the comparisons as well. ;)

He has said a few times in the recent past that he was a big LCD guy and the Sammy lcd isn't in the same league as either the 850 nor 5020 in his opinion.

He has said a few times in the recent past that he was a big LCD guy and the Sammy lcd isn't in the same league as either the 850 nor 5020 in his opinion.

He had a XBR 5 also. It took me years to convince him to buy a plasma. :D

He was such a die-hard LCD fan that I'm really surprised he took the chance on a plasma.

He's going to bring the 5020 over to my house for the superbowl to compare the 5020 to my 8G Elite. I just want to see if they black levels are that noticeable. I'm hoping and praying it's not a big difference because I want to hold out for the 10G's later this year, but the 9G's are so damn cheap that it's really hard to pass up.

Nice effort, but its not a scientific comparison, meaning the elimination of all possible bias.

Nice effort, but its not a scientific comparison, meaning the elimination of all possible bias.

He never said it was. He's expressing his opinion based on his eyes. Take it for what it's worth.

Nice effort, but its not a scientific comparison, meaning the elimination of all possible bias.

Umm, those comparisons are out there already, and anyone who's read those articles know which set measures better "scientifically".

Well, I just had my 50" Kuro 5020FD delivered yesterday along with a replacement 58" Panny 850U. I also have a 40" Samsung LCD (Left TV in pic)

I truly believe (regardless what anyone says) The Panny and the Kuro are the 2 best TV's money can buy.

I popped in Baraka, Dark Knight and a couple other BD's. I compared both TV's on SD and HD.

The Kuro was on standard mode and the Panny on Studio Reference mode.

Here are my initial impressions.

Kuro's standard mode really surprised me. Actually I was shocked how bright and crisp "standard mode" is. On my panny or any other of my TV's I've owned, standard mode tends to be very dull. But man, it's looks fantastic on the Kuro. Biggest surprise.

There is just something about the Pioneer. You cant understand it until you own one. It's honestly like owning a Ferrari. You just feel as if everything is put together correctly. (I'm actually proud to be an owner of one. Sounds weird I know). Remote is nice, menu options are great and WOW, the speakers on the TV are CRAZY! TV sounds amazing.

On certain scenes of DK, and Baraka, I was kinda shocked how close the Panny actually was to the Kuro. But, overall, YES, the Kuro has a better picture with Blu Ray movies and HD/SD TV.

I do NOT hear any buzz from the Kuro unless I stick my ear directly on the TV in the back. So, in my mind I have Zero buzz. Same holds true with the Panny.

Picture:
Pioneer 10
Panny 8.5

I originally bought the Panny (a month ago) because I wasn't sure I would like Plasma's (I was a huge LCD guy). So, If I had to do it all over again, I would of bought a 60" Pioneer Elite, and a 50" Panny (or at these prices, I would of bought a non elite for the bedroom).

Both TV's are razor sharp (Kuro a bit sharper). crisp, detailed, and handle well lit rooms with NO problems.

Black levels....Yes, the Kuro has better blacks. Need I say more? :)

My GF who knows zero about TV's, nor cares to much about picture quality walked into the bedroom and seriously freaked. She seemed more happy than me.

If anyone is on the fence about buying a Pioneer (especially at these prices) and is unsure if they should spend the money, I'd say yes its worth it.

The panny is a fantastic TV. If you don't have the money for a Pioneer, you will still be extremely happy and surprised with the TV. If it wasn't for the Pioneer in my home, I would of thought the Panny was the best TV made.

So, The Kuro would be a Ferrari and the Panny a BMW. BMW's are great cars, but if you had the money, the Ferrari is so much better.


Let the discussion begin!

Thanks for the quick impressions! I should have my 58PZ850 this week and am coming from a 52XBR3. Very excited and I got it for $499 after a store credit for my faulty Sony so I am happy. The store I got mine from doesn't carry Pioneer or I would have a 151 all the way but I am very impressed with the 850 after watching some scenes from Dark Knight and The Island.

I guess my only question for you is I see 3 nice TV's but where the hell are your HT speakers?:p

Well, I just had my 50" Kuro 5020FD delivered yesterday along with a replacement 58" Panny 850U. I also have a 40" Samsung LCD (Left TV in pic)

I truly believe (regardless what anyone says) The Panny and the Kuro are the 2 best TV's money can buy.

I popped in Baraka, Dark Knight and a couple other BD's. I compared both TV's on SD and HD.

The Kuro was on standard mode and the Panny on Studio Reference mode.

Here are my initial impressions.

Kuro's standard mode really surprised me. Actually I was shocked how bright and crisp "standard mode" is. On my panny or any other of my TV's I've owned, standard mode tends to be very dull. But man, it's looks fantastic on the Kuro. Biggest surprise.

There is just something about the Pioneer. You cant understand it until you own one. It's honestly like owning a Ferrari. You just feel as if everything is put together correctly. (I'm actually proud to be an owner of one. Sounds weird I know). Remote is nice, menu options are great and WOW, the speakers on the TV are CRAZY! TV sounds amazing.

On certain scenes of DK, and Baraka, I was kinda shocked how close the Panny actually was to the Kuro. But, overall, YES, the Kuro has a better picture with Blu Ray movies and HD/SD TV.

I do NOT hear any buzz from the Kuro unless I stick my ear directly on the TV in the back. So, in my mind I have Zero buzz. Same holds true with the Panny.

Picture:
Pioneer 10
Panny 8.5

I originally bought the Panny (a month ago) because I wasn't sure I would like Plasma's (I was a huge LCD guy). So, If I had to do it all over again, I would of bought a 60" Pioneer Elite, and a 50" Panny (or at these prices, I would of bought a non elite for the bedroom).

Both TV's are razor sharp (Kuro a bit sharper). crisp, detailed, and handle well lit rooms with NO problems.

Black levels....Yes, the Kuro has better blacks. Need I say more? :)

My GF who knows zero about TV's, nor cares to much about picture quality walked into the bedroom and seriously freaked. She seemed more happy than me.

If anyone is on the fence about buying a Pioneer (especially at these prices) and is unsure if they should spend the money, I'd say yes its worth it.

The panny is a fantastic TV. If you don't have the money for a Pioneer, you will still be extremely happy and surprised with the TV. If it wasn't for the Pioneer in my home, I would of thought the Panny was the best TV made.

So, The Kuro would be a Ferrari and the Panny a BMW. BMW's are great cars, but if you had the money, the Ferrari is so much better.


Let the discussion begin!

Which "deal" on the Pioneer did you take advantage of, I have seen several on here. I have had a Panny for 2 years now and have loved it but it's time to upgrade. I'd like the Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD, but it's a little pricey for me. I'm looking more at the Panny 50 800U. I've heard it's more easily calibrated than the 850. I do like the 850's capability of playing video in the card slot, which the 800U lacks. The 800U is a little hard to find now, but I'm in no rush. For the money I would save over the 111FD, I could buy a HD camcorder and a Canon XSI DSLR. If you can't list the source of the Pioneer in your post, send me a Private Message with the info, if you could.

Thanks, and enjoy your new toy.

He had a XBR 5 also. It took me years to convince him to buy a plasma. :D

He was such a die-hard LCD fan that I'm really surprised he took the chance on a plasma.

He's going to bring the 5020 over to my house for the superbowl to compare the 5020 to my 8G Elite. I just want to see if they black levels are that noticeable. I'm hoping and praying it's not a big difference because I want to hold out for the 10G's later this year, but the 9G's are so damn cheap that it's really hard to pass up.

Please post your impressions of this either here or somewhere, I like hearing first hand accounts of 8g's vs 9g's. I too would like to be able to see a 5020 next to my 1150 but that wont happen this year. :(

I don't think I would use cable for comparison as far PQ is concerned. While it does play a significant role, in that it allows you see to each one handles a poor signal, it is widely known that the Pioneers (the Elites anyway), are typically viewed in Pure mode, which has no processing to the signal whatsoever. Also, the NE's are lacking in the NR features.

Pop in a letterboxed BD, and let us know your impressions between the two.


Well, I think using cable for comparisons is actually quite helpful to people who want to know the answer to that. I did pop in several blu Ray movies on both TV's. Already talked about that. Everyone has to remember, I just got the Pioneer, so I really haven't had time to play with it.

At the risk of offending certain..umm.."fans" of the technology.....how does the Samsung lcd compare to the two plasmas?

Well, I didn't want to use the Sammy for a couple of reasons. I'm in the process of trying to sell the TV, and it is an older Model Sammy LN40665F. But honestly? That TV pic was very nice. There were many times that TV looked better than my Sony XBR5. Blacks at times looked better on that TV.

He has said a few times in the recent past that he was a big LCD guy and the Sammy lcd isn't in the same league as either the 850 nor 5020 in his opinion.


Yes. I use to own the Sammy 71F then the 81F but I returned it for the XBR5. And I owned LCD's even before those. As far as the xbr8 or 950, I didn't take me long to know that I wasn't impressed with either TV. XBR8 is a better TV than the 950, but does NOT warrant the price. Pound for Pound they simply can't match the Pio.

But I didn'twant to turn this into a thread about LCD vs PLamsa. I just wanted to give an impressoin between the PIO and the Panny. Not many people get the chance to own both TV's at the same time, So I feel its my obligation to the board to help people out.

Nice effort, but its not a scientific comparison, meaning the elimination of all possible bias.


I wasn't trying to do a scientific comparsion. I leave that up to the experts who did pick the Kuro. This was suppose to be a comparision between 2 top plasma's. It's that simple. And who's being bias?

Thanks for the quick impressions! I should have my 58PZ850 this week and am coming from a 52XBR3. Very excited and I got it for $499 after a store credit for my faulty Sony so I am happy. The store I got mine from doesn't carry Pioneer or I would have a 151 all the way but I am very impressed with the 850 after watching some scenes from Dark Knight and The Island.

I guess my only question for you is I see 3 nice TV's but where the hell are your HT speakers?:p

You are going to LOVE the Panny. You will be very shocked how much better the pic is than your XBR3. It honestly blew away my XBR5. You will freak out how good it looks. As far as my HT speakers/setup, I sold it all. We were suppose to move back to the city to a new place and I was going to buy and BRAND NEW equipment. Well, 2 days before we sold, the deal fell through on our place. I don't want to buy new equipment until I move back downtown and know what my environmont will be like in our new place. (Totally SUCKS) But we will put the place back on the market come spring.

Which "deal" on the Pioneer did you take advantage of, I have seen several on here. I have had a Panny for 2 years now and have loved it but it's time to upgrade. I'd like the Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD, but it's a little pricey for me. I'm looking more at the Panny 50 800U. I've heard it's more easily calibrated than the 850. I do like the 850's capability of playing video in the card slot, which the 800U lacks. The 800U is a little hard to find now, but I'm in no rush. For the money I would save over the 111FD, I could buy a HD camcorder and a Canon XSI DSLR. If you can't list the source of the Pioneer in your post, send me a Private Message with the info, if you could.

Thanks, and enjoy your new toy.


I got the Pioneer 50" 5020 for 1900.00 bucks with free delivery. To good of a deal to pass up on.

I also got the 58" for 2700.00 bucks. I love the 850 because I love to be able to play with the settings. I didn't think I'd like the Viera cast, but I actually love it. I basically got the 850U cheaper than they were asking for the 800 at the time, so it was a no brainer.

How is image retention between the Panasonic and Pioneer? Or is IR even there?

How is image retention between the Panasonic and Pioneer? Or is IR even there?


Nope. none on either TV.

Hi all

just picked up a pioneer 5020fd PLASMA ...JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT TO SET THE SETTINGS AT FOR THE RUN IN TIME OF 100-200 HOURS??????
THANKS

^^ Go to the master burn in thread or hit up the 9g non elite thread and use DNice's setting.

You are going to LOVE the Panny. You will be very shocked how much better the pic is than your XBR3. It honestly blew away my XBR5. You will freak out how good it looks. As far as my HT speakers/setup, I sold it all. We were suppose to move back to the city to a new place and I was going to buy and BRAND NEW equipment. Well, 2 days before we sold, the deal fell through on our place. I don't want to buy new equipment until I move back downtown and know what my environmont will be like in our new place. (Totally SUCKS) But we will put the place back on the market come spring.

what a drag, I bet you are really missing the 5.1 or 7.1. BTW - what is your viewing distance with the 850 and what settings do you prefer? I will be @ about 8-9'.

Nice effort, but its not a scientific comparison, meaning the elimination of all possible bias.

You posted something about this in another thread - if you think that any reviewer can be truly unbiased, you are wrong. Numbers don't ever tell the whole story either, so there's no such thing as a perfectly objective and complete review. I for one appreciate the OP's intent in offering up a comparison of two good displays for others who may be on the fence. It's not common for someone to have these in a normal home viewing environment and set up properly - i.e. not on the wall under harsh lights with messed up settings in BB.

Not many people get the chance to own both TV's at the same time, So I feel its my obligation to the board to help people out.

Take your time buylongterm (oh the irony with that user name....), I have actually been looking at those two sets (well the 58pz800 but close enough) and have been entertaining a few ideas (get either the 58pz800 or a 5020 Kuro, or wait for the 58s1 NEO PDP in the fall) this comparison topic will be a big help in my decision. Keep up the good work. :cool:

If only the 6020 would drop in price to a reasonable level.....

what a drag, I bet you are really missing the 5.1 or 7.1. BTW - what is your viewing distance with the 850 and what settings do you prefer? I will be @ about 8-9'.

We are almost 8 feet away. Trust me, even if it were closer, definitely get the 58". When it replaced my 52" inch XBR5, I was like this baby is a beast. Well, I'm now use it the 58". I went into custom mode and tweaked my tv to my liking. I'd give you the settings but I haven't set up the replacement set up with them yet. (still breaking in the TV)

BTW, I tried CNET's settings, and honestly, was not impressed with them at all.

You posted something about this in another thread - if you think that any reviewer can be truly unbiased, you are wrong. Numbers don't ever tell the whole story either, so there's no such thing as a perfectly objective and complete review. I for one appreciate the OP's intent in offering up a comparison of two good displays for others who may be on the fence. It's not common for someone to have these in a normal home viewing environment and set up properly - i.e. not on the wall under harsh lights with messed up settings in BB.


Exactly. Most people just want to know the basic stuff when comparing 2 TV's. That's all I was attempting to do. As the days go on, and I tweak both TV's and get tot know the Kuro, I will be able to talk more in depth about each one. Thats why threads like this are good.

Exactly. Most people just want to know the basic stuff when comparing 2 TV's. That's all I was attempting to do. As the days go on, and I tweak both TV's and get tot know the Kuro, I will be able to talk more in depth about each one. Thats why threads like this are good.

Well, the majority of us find your observations very helpful and informative as very few will ever have the opportunity to have those sets side by side in an actual living type environment. Keep up the good work. :)

the non elite can be had under $2,000 and the elite can be had under $3,000 for those wondering, the price drop has started. op Dial in d-nice settings i think its movie mode chad provided it. Also try comparing solid source like dvds/blu rays

It's nice to get an (honest) opinion from a user who has the TVs at home for comparison. Definately a good break from users going back and fourth about displays based on professional reviews!

For anyone undecided between the 58PZ850 and 5020 (58" vs 50")... Here's my quick story:

I was undecided between the size of the 58PZ850 and the superior PQ of the 5020. Long story short - I chose the Panny. I sit about 8-10ft away and the picture looks outstanding. Sure the 5020 PQ might be a little better, but for the size of the 58PZ850 and PQ, I couldn't beat the value! Everyone who visits comments on how great the set is and loves how they feel "immersed". For those of you undecided now, price points are different and may yeild different decisions. But if anyone is still in the same situation as I was, I would be glad to answer any questions.

It's nice to get an (honest) opinion from a user who has the TVs at home for comparison. Definately a good break from users going back and fourth about displays based on professional reviews!

For anyone undecided between the 58PZ850 and 5020 (58" vs 50")... Here's my quick story:

I was undecided between the size of the 58PZ850 and the superior PQ of the 5020. Long story short - I chose the Panny. I sit about 8-10ft away and the picture looks outstanding. Sure the 5020 PQ might be a little better, but for the size of the 58PZ850 and PQ, I couldn't beat the value! Everyone who visits comments on how great the set is and loves how they feel "immersed". For those of you undecided now, price points are different and may yeild different decisions. But if anyone is still in the same situation as I was, I would be glad to answer any questions.

Exactly! somewhere down the line, people have forgotten what this site is suppose to do. HELP EACH OTHER OUT.

Congrats on your 850! I love that TV!

Peace,

BLT

the non elite can be had under $2,000 and the elite can be had under $3,000 for those wondering, the price drop has started. op Dial in d-nice settings i think its movie mode chad provided it. Also try comparing solid source like dvds/blu rays

I just put in D-Nice"s settings. I will keep everyone updated.


Christian

Take your time buylongterm (oh the irony with that user name....), I have actually been looking at those two sets (well the 58pz800 but close enough) and have been entertaining a few ideas (get either the 58pz800 or a 5020 Kuro, or wait for the 58s1 NEO PDP in the fall) this comparison topic will be a big help in my decision. Keep up the good work. :cool:

If only the 6020 would drop in price to a reasonable level.....


LOL. I know. For a guy who buys TV's once a year, the name doesn't fit. :)

The nickname had a lot to do with my investment philosophy years ago. I guess you can throw that out the window as well!!! :)

Hehe, I'm sort of glad I have size restrictions in my current situation which really prevented getting anything larger than a 50" - certainly makes the decision alot easier.

If I had the room for something in the 58" - 60" range it definitely would have been alot harder deciding on what size and what brand to pull the trigger on last week.

My GF who knows zero about TV's, nor cares to much about picture quality walked into the bedroom and seriously freaked. She seemed more happy than me.


You sure she didn't freak because there were like 5 TVs in the bedroom?

hey buylongterm -

"They call me The Dude" ... (Start every post that way :)

Thanks for sharing - real world feedback is TANTAMOUNT in my opinion over a lab environment. I appreciate it.

I'm a recent convert as well - was convinced that LCD was the way ... until I bought the little plasmas that could. It all started with replacing a 37" Tosh LCD in the bedroom. I was looking to get a 40+" Sony LCD (I have a KDL-52XBR3 in the family room) and price drove me to a Panny 42PZ80 model. Long story short I am as impressed with the Panny plaz as I am with the 52" Sony (it's actually better - I just can't admit to it for the price difference ;) ). The 42" Panny even grew into a 46A" model. Don't get me wrong - the Sony LCD is perfect for its environment (bright room in day-light, main TV).

I'm setting up a media room in the basement. I really, REALLY want the 10G Pio, but wanted to ping you on the following. If all things are equal ... meaning that the [delta] PQ of the Panny and PIo models remain the same - would you do the 65" Panny over the 60" Pioneer?

Is the Pio that good?

Congrats again "Dude" ... your thoughts are appreciated!
V

First off...Fantastic comparison thread. I love the FIRST HAND same room comparo.

I thought I would relay a message from a Panny rep that was doing some training on these models. The VERY first thing he told the group was "WE ARE NOT PIONEER!" He went on to relay this message. “We concede to the BEST plasma display company in picture quality. How ever we believe we have the BEST PRICE TO PERFORMANCE product if you do not have the money for the Pioneer sets.” (Which is the case for MOST consumers.) After the training he talked a bit about the future relationship between Panasonic and Pioneer. (Very interesting)

I thought this to be interesting coming from a REP as EVERY rep believes they have the BEST product. Every one who SELLS these displays KNOWS that the Pio's are the best bar none. If a sales person tells you other wise there is OBVIOUSLY some sort of incentive to sell something else...($). How ever getting an opportunity to do a real world viewing comparison should not be taken for granted.

I applaud your great post and insight on this discussion.

Qustion: If you are watching the same source (cable, blu-ray ect.) how are the panels connected for same time viewing?

...and the elite can be had under $3,000 for those wondering, the price drop has started.

Not on the 151FD it hasn't. Not from anything I've seen. Nor do I expect it to any time soon (sadly).

[QUOTE=zx9eric;15663052]First off...Fantastic comparison thread. I love the FIRST HAND same room comparo.

I thought I would relay a message from a Panny rep that was doing some training on these models. The VERY first thing he told the group was "WE ARE NOT PIONEER!" He went on to relay this message. “We concede to the BEST plasma display company in picture quality. How ever we believe we have the BEST PRICE TO PERFORMANCE product if you do not have the money for the Pioneer sets.” (Which is the case for MOST consumers.) After the training he talked a bit about the future relationship between Panasonic and Pioneer. (Very interesting)

You have touched on a point I was hoping someone would address. My impression of the partnership with Pioneer is just what the Panny rep discussed, namely value at price point. Although Pioneer is winning the "best picture" battle, they are losing the war. Panny is crushing them in sales and more importantly in profit. Thanks primarily to Panasonic(and Vizio)more people tried a plasma display, after a few generations of sets. It's still an uphill battle with the average consumer to overcome some of the early problems of plasma sets and some of the stigma remains, even after the problems have been resolved. IMO, Pioneer realizes that they have to offer a broader range of sets. Their niche in the videophile market is being challenged and they have no real "entry" level market share to fall back on.

I just wonder if the new Pioneer sets with Panny panels will continue to press the limits, or level out in performance.

Not on the 151FD it hasn't. Not from anything I've seen. Nor do I expect it to any time soon (sadly).

He wasn't talking about the 151, that's a 60 inch display. It was the 111-FD.

[QUOTE=zx9eric;15663052]First off...Fantastic comparison thread. I love the FIRST HAND same room comparo.

I thought I would relay a message from a Panny rep that was doing some training on these models. The VERY first thing he told the group was "WE ARE NOT PIONEER!" He went on to relay this message. “We concede to the BEST plasma display company in picture quality. How ever we believe we have the BEST PRICE TO PERFORMANCE product if you do not have the money for the Pioneer sets.” (Which is the case for MOST consumers.) After the training he talked a bit about the future relationship between Panasonic and Pioneer. (Very interesting)

You have touched on a point I was hoping someone would address. My impression of the partnership with Pioneer is just what the Panny rep discussed, namely value at price point. Although Pioneer is winning the "best picture" battle, they are losing the war. Panny is crushing them in sales and more importantly in profit. Thanks primarily to Panasonic(and Vizio)more people tried a plasma display, after a few generations of sets. It's still an uphill battle with the average consumer to overcome some of the early problems of plasma sets and some of the stigma remains, even after the problems have been resolved. IMO, Pioneer realizes that they have to offer a broader range of sets. Their niche in the videophile market is being challenged and they have no real "entry" level market share to fall back on.

I just wonder if the new Pioneer sets with Panny panels will continue to press the limits, or level out in performance.First of all (please don't take this the wrong way) you can simply hit the "quote" button underneath the post you want to quote and then type your response underneath.;)

Having said that, I know there are some people here predicting doom and gloom once Panasonic starts making panels for Pioneer, but I am not one of them. First of all, Panasonic makes fine panels in their own right...but Pioneer has stated that the panels will be made to their specs (not Panasonics) and some secrets they will share and others they will not. I take this to mean that while Pioneer is taking advantage of Panasonics superior and more efficient manufacturing plants....it is NOT a merger between the companies and Pioneer will likely have it's own employees on hand during part of the process if not all of it. I think both companies will benefit from this cooperation....Panasonic will gain some technology while Pioneer will be able to lower costs and divert money to R&D that was previously spent on expensive manufacturing facilities.

[QUOTE=speedking;15663515]First of all (please don't take this the wrong way) you can simply hit the "quote" button underneath the post you want to quote and then type your response underneath.

Having said that, I know there are some people here predicting doom and gloom once Panasonic starts making panels for Pioneer, but I am not one of them. First of all, Panasonic makes fine panels in their own right...but Pioneer has stated that the panels will be made to their specs (not Panasonics) and some secrets they will share and others they will not. I take this to mean that while Pioneer is taking advantage of Panasonics superior and more efficient manufacturing plants....it is NOT a merger between the companies and Pioneer will likely have it's own employees on hand during part of the process if not all of it. I think both companies will benefit from this cooperation....Panasonic will gain some technology while Pioneer will be able to lower costs and divert money to R&D that was previously spent on expensive manufacturing facilities.


It's not uncommon for companies in Japan to have partnerships like this one. Sony has been making sensors for Nikon for awhile. JVC and Hitachi have been suppliers for a lot of companies. While Pioneer might provide specs to Panasonic, I can't envison a Pioneer employee working on these panels or even being involved in the manufacturing process. While Pioneer would like the public to think Panasonic has little impact in the production, they will. I think that is a good thing, not a negative. That's where the Japanese show their wisdom. They don't fear a collaboration, they embrace it. I don't see a Progresso and Campbells Soup think tank in the near future. I don't think McDonalds and Burger King are working on the ultimate burger together.

I am curious to see if this cost reduction results in lower prices for Pioneer Plasmas, or the introduction of an entry level model, or as you mentioned, more money for R&D. This will be interesting to watch.

vmaxxer i would take a 60" elite pioneer over a 65" panasonic. Quality over size, after all its not a 65" vs a 30" its a 65 vs 60.

ps 5" is quite alot to make a diffrence i just care more about Picture quality

hey buylongterm -

"They call me The Dude" ... (Start every post that way :)

Thanks for sharing - real world feedback is TANTAMOUNT in my opinion over a lab environment. I appreciate it.

I'm a recent convert as well - was convinced that LCD was the way ... until I bought the little plasmas that could. It all started with replacing a 37" Tosh LCD in the bedroom. I was looking to get a 40+" Sony LCD (I have a KDL-52XBR3 in the family room) and price drove me to a Panny 42PZ80 model. Long story short I am as impressed with the Panny plaz as I am with the 52" Sony (it's actually better - I just can't admit to it for the price difference ;) ). The 42" Panny even grew into a 46A" model. Don't get me wrong - the Sony LCD is perfect for its environment (bright room in day-light, main TV).

I'm setting up a media room in the basement. I really, REALLY want the 10G Pio, but wanted to ping you on the following. If all things are equal ... meaning that the [delta] PQ of the Panny and PIo models remain the same - would you do the 65" Panny over the 60" Pioneer?

Is the Pio that good?

Congrats again "Dude" ... your thoughts are appreciated!
V

vmaxxer i would take a 60" elite pioneer over a 65" panasonic. Quality over size, after all its not a 65" vs a 30" its a 65 vs 60.

ps 5" is quite alot to make a diffrence i just care more about Picture quality

At a lower price point I'd have a harder time deciding between a 111fd vs. a 58PZ850. Still a quality vs. quantity argument but 8" is no small difference.

I went from a 56" set to a 50" 111FD, and I must admit, the difference was larger than I'd anticipated. Once I'd gotten the Kuro onto the TV stand and saw how it looked downright miniscule compared to what it replaced, I began to worry bigtime.

However, the superior quality of the Kuro more than makes up for the size difference. My seats are 3 feet closer to the TV now, and while I still miss the extra real estate that the bigger TV afforded, I wouldn't hesitate for a fraction of a second to do it all over again.

like i said yeah 8" is some diffrence enough to think about it twice but quality is more imporant to me. btw did you end up getting a pioneer ?

At a lower price point I'd have a harder time deciding between a 111fd vs. a 58PZ850. Still a quality vs. quantity argument but 8" is no small difference.

like i said yeah 8" is some diffrence enough to think about it twice but quality is more imporant to me. btw did you end up getting a pioneer ?
Look again :)
I went from a 56" set to a 50" 111FD

uminchu i asked general kenobi

Look again :)

like i said yeah 8" is some diffrence enough to think about it twice but quality is more imporant to me. btw did you end up getting a pioneer ?

No, I got the 58PZ850 but it hasn't come in yet... should be this week. I had a Sony 52XBR3 that I purchased an extended warranty on with a small chain in Nor Cal. They were going to replace my TV (which had a few flashlights and clouds) with a 52XBR6 but I opted for a store credit which I used for the 850.

The store I have the credit with does not carry Pioneer or I would have gotten the 6020 no doubt but after spending some time messing with the settings and watching scenes from Dark Knight and The Island I was pretty happy with what I saw from the 850. I also spent some time looking at the Samsung 950 but I didn't care for the AMP thing and the off axis angles and blooming were intolerable.

Only update I have so far is as the days go on, I am more impressed with the 5020. Such a fantastic display. It really sucks the TV is in my bedroom and my Panny is bigger bigger. We spend most of our time watching movies in the living room. I am tempted to put the 50" Kuro in the Living room and put the 58" in my bedroom so I can start fully enjoying the set. Coming this weekend, I will be testing more Blu Ray movies. I will also be bringing my Kuro over to Cubbiechris's house (along with my PS3) and we will be testing pic quality between his 8G elite and my 9G 5020. We both have similiar BD disks, so it should be fun! (we might even video tape it)


One thing I do know for certain. There isn't an LCD currently on the market that matches either one of these TV's.

Only update I have so far is as the days go on, I am more impressed with the 5020. Such a fantastic display. It really sucks the TV is in my bedroom and my Panny is bigger bigger. We spend most of our time watching movies in the living room. I am tempted to put the 50" Kuro in the Living room and put the 58" in my bedroom so I can start fully enjoying the set. Coming this weekend, I will be testing more Blu Ray movies. I will also be bringing my Kuro over to Cubbiechris's house (along with my PS3) and we will be testing pic quality between his 8G elite and my 9G 5020. We both have similiar BD disks, so it should be fun! (we might even video tape it)


One thing I do know for certain. There isn't an LCD currently on the market that matches either one of these TV's.

Thanks for the update, looking forward to additional impressions. If you happen to have AVPR on Blu I'd be interested to know if the blacks look crushed on either display. I'd also like to know if you think the 5020 has less grain in the picture or if each display resolves grain from source material equally.

This isn't helping my decision :confused: Well it is helping, but it isn't helping my wallet. :D

Would you say that the 5020 Kuro is worth getting over a 58pz800? Both of those are in my price range, I might be able to stretch it to include the 6020 but I would have to sell a few organs to do it. :eek:

I plan on sitting 6-8 feet from the screen, and I currently have a 42px75 Panasonic where the new set would go. I could actually move a 50 inch set a bit closer thanks to a lack of SDE, but I would probably leave the 58inch where the current 42inch is. I don't want to have the upgrade bug for another few years. (it came way too quick with the 42inch) the 5020 is the cheapest option of the ones I am considering which is nice, but I am worried that it will shrink on me like the 42inch did. (my previous set before the 42inch was a 28inch widescreen Sanyo HDCRT) I can get the 58pz800 for a few hundred more over the 5020, or I can go all out on a 6020 at the cost of my left lung. :D

I'm still leaning toward the 58pz800 though.

This isn't helping my decision :confused: Well it is helping, but it isn't helping my wallet. :D

Would you say that the 5020 Kuro is worth getting over a 58pz800? Both of those are in my price range, I might be able to stretch it to include the 6020 but I would have to sell a few organs to do it. :eek:

I plan on sitting 6-8 feet from the screen, and I currently have a 42px75 Panasonic where the new set would go. I could actually move a 50 inch set a bit closer thanks to a lack of SDE, but I would probably leave the 58inch where the current 42inch is. I don't want to have the upgrade bug for another few years. (it came way too quick with the 42inch) the 5020 is the cheapest option of the ones I am considering which is nice, but I am worried that it will shrink on me like the 42inch did. (my previous set before the 42inch was a 28inch widescreen Sanyo HDCRT) I can get the 58pz800 for a few hundred more over the 5020, or I can go all out on a 6020 at the cost of my left lung. :D

I'm still leaning toward the 58pz800 though.

Tough tough choice.

Knowing what I know and if money were an issue, I always say I'd take a bigger TV over a smaller one as long as it was almost as good. The Panny is a notch below the Kuro from what I've seen. I love the TV. That's the main reason I bought the 58". I promise you, you will kick yourself for not getting the bigger TV. I sit 7-8 feet away and the 58 is perfect. When I first bought the 58 and replaced my 52" LCD, I was like WHOLY CRAP the 58" is huge. But guess what? It doesn't seem so big anymore. :) You will get use to it.

But, It's almost a double edge sword. You will kick yourself for not getting the bigger TV and you will kick yourself for not getting a Kuro. I would try my hardest to get the 6020. That way you will have the best of both worlds. Hope that makes sense.

Remember when paying for the Kuro, I believe your not only paying for better pic quality, but our paying for a better remote, a nicer menu, and the sense the kuro is a ROCK solid TV.

If you could sell a few organs, Yesthe 6020 is worth EVERY PENNY. That is a promise. It will EXCEED every single expectation you have and then some.

If you can, go rent the Blu Ray disk The Wild. Take it to a store and have them play it on the Panny. That movie sold me on the Panny. It might help make your decision a bit easier.

Any questions, please let me know!

Chris

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

It does NOT take a rocket scientist or scientific data to see the difference in picture quality. My GF immediately saw the difference and she can barely turn a TV on for Christ sake.

My mind was never influenced with the Kuro. Ever. That is a promise. Again, unless someone own a Kuro in their home, they will never know the difference.

I honestly feel people say stuff like that because they don't own one or are pissed they didn't buy one in the first place. THAT IS A FACT. Now, I would never ever criticize someone purchase. If your happy with what you own, all the power to you.

I think I can give an honest opinion since I've had many LCD's in my home and I now own the Kuro and the Panny. I am NOT sold on any company. If Samsung or Sony made the best TV right now, I'd own one. That is a fact as well.

My mind was never influenced with the Kuro.

If you post in the AVS forum, I believe anyone can be influenced by the Kuro enthusiasts. It just like seeing a Pepsi commericial over and over, your mind will subconsciously be influenced by it. Now that's not saying that the Kuro isn't a better plasma. However, the goal of any comparsion should start out being as unbiased as possible, those comparison usually produce the best and most helpful results.

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

And again, this review isn't about scientific data. A lot of people are on the fence when buying these 2 TV's. I leave the scientific data to the experts (who always pick the Kuro).

And from the positive PM's I'm getting, it really seems to be helping a lot of people out.

If you post in the AVS forum, I believe anyone can be influenced by the Kuro enthusiasts. It just like seeing a Pepsi commericial over and over, your mind will subconsciously be influenced by it. Now that's not saying that the Kuro isn't a better plasma. However, the goal of any comparsion should start out being as unbiased as possible, those comparison usually produce the best and most helpful results.

Is it completely unbiased. I promise you. In fact, there was a part of me hoping the Panny was a better TV. The reason there are Kuro Enthusiasts, is because once you own one, you are blown away by the TV. I've seen hundreds of thousands of Pepsi commericials and Diet Coke still taste better than me. I've seen thousands of commercials telling me that the tripple whopper with cheese is the best burger in the world, yet I wouldn't eat one.

Hell, if you can't beat them, join them. :)

If you post in the AVS forum, I believe anyone can be influenced by the Kuro enthusiasts. It just like seeing a Pepsi commericial over and over, your mind will subconsciously be influenced by it. Now that's not saying that the Kuro isn't a better plasma. However, the goal of any comparsion should start out being as unbiased as possible, those comparison usually produce the best and most helpful results.

And while my good friend Cubbiechris bought the Kuro last year, I bought a Sony XBR5. I wasn't influenced by him or the board. Heck, I was tired of all the damn Kuro talk. Everytime I looked at a review, I would pray the Kuro was taken down. But, I've finally come to my senses and realized it's the best TV right now in every shape or form.

And why can't I create a thread to compare two TV's? Quit making it more than that. I feel privileged that I have both TV's in my home. If someone where in my position, I would hope they would do the same.

Your just mad the thread is about a KURO and not about a Samsung 950.

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

What's your problem? You've already come in and given your opinion on this, spewing the same nonsense about unbiased scientific comparisons. We've got it, Auditor55 opinion has been noted but the rest of us that value this thread and the information buylongterm is providing would appreciate it if you went back under your bridge.

What's your problem? You've already come in and given your opinion on this, spewing the same nonsense about unbiased scientific comparisons. We've got it, Auditor55 opinion has been noted but the rest of us that value this thread and the information buylongterm is providing would appreciate it if you went back under your bridge.


Amen. The guy has beaten his dead horse silly.

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

What I said on the other thread: "Some people (my wife for one) wouldn't be able to see or appreciate the difference between a Kuro or a Vizio or Westinghouse, but they (she) would be able to appreciate the size differences."

While it's true that she has not had Kuro enthusiasts ‘influencing’ her experience, it goes way beyond that. Her eyes and her mind just don’t go there. Mine does. I have two advanced degrees in the Visual Arts and so I’m oriented that way. I understand color, detail brilliance, etc., where she looks at an image and sees a sad or happy face. It’s just different.

Her ‘ignorance’ is truly her bliss as she does not see the dead pixel nor the banding or the green shadows. WOW… to be there! But I do. We do. We strive for the perfection that WE are conscious of.

As humans, we can not help but be influenced by our environment. We have difficulty remaining un-biased by brand name or hype. We are creatures that are swayed by peer pressure. These are gross generalizations that are not true for all.

Many of us don’t really get dragged in by hype. Some actually go the other way intentionally to protest it. I see it, hear it, read it and do my best to ignore it when evaluating what is in front of me.

One has to wonder about general consensus. If EVERY SINGLE A/V magazine says that the ClearAudio phono cartridge is the best that money can buy… well… that may mean something. If all the major A/V mags say that the Kuro is the cream of the crop… well, that may mean something as well.

I may buy the Panny 65” 850u because I don’t feel the difference between it and the Kuro 151FD is worth the loss in real estate, but I’ll do it believing from what I’ve seen and personally witnessed that I just might not be owning the very best image-producing device out there.

But that’s my choice and I can live with that.

Cheers

shane

What I said on the other thread: "Some people (my wife for one) wouldn't be able to see or appreciate the difference between a Kuro or a Vizio or Westinghouse, but they (she) would be able to appreciate the size differences."

While it's true that she has not had Kuro enthusiasts ‘influencing’ her experience, it goes way beyond that. Her eyes and her mind just don’t go there. Mine does. I have two advanced degrees in the Visual Arts and so I’m oriented that way. I understand color, detail brilliance, etc., where she looks at an image and sees a sad or happy face. It’s just different.

Her ‘ignorance’ is truly her bliss as she does not see the dead pixel nor the banding or the green shadows. WOW… to be there! But I do. We do. We strive for the perfection that WE are conscious of.

As humans, we can not help but be influenced by our environment. We have difficulty remaining un-biased by brand name or hype. We are creatures that are swayed by peer pressure. These are gross generalizations that are not true for all.

Many of us don’t really get dragged in by hype. Some actually go the other way intentionally to protest it. I see it, hear it, read it and do my best to ignore it when evaluating what is in front of me.

One has to wonder about general consensus. If EVERY SINGLE A/V magazine says that the ClearAudio phono cartridge is the best that money can buy… well… that may mean something. If all the major A/V mags say that the Kuro is the cream of the crop… well, that may mean something as well.

I may buy the Panny 65” 850u because I don’t feel the difference between it and the Kuro 151FD is worth the loss in real estate, but I’ll do it believing from what I’ve seen and personally witnessed that I just might not be owning the very best image-producing device out there.

But that’s my choice and I can live with that.

Cheers

shane

WOW, now that is a well thought out/written post! Very nice!

WOW, now that is a well thought out/written post! Very nice!

Aw, shucks...:o

Interesting to have these two almost identical discussions in different forums. They should be merged, or we'll just keep linking between them.:D

shane

Amen. The guy has beaten his dead horse silly.

I plan posting some suggested "proper" methods for scientifically comparing displays from a true video expert and not from a magazine hack.

And while my good friend Cubbiechris bought the Kuro last year, I bought a Sony XBR5. I wasn't influenced by him or the board. Heck, I was tired of all the damn Kuro talk. Everytime I looked at a review, I would pray the Kuro was taken down. But, I've finally come to my senses and realized it's the best TV right now in every shape or form.

And why can't I create a thread to compare two TV's? Quit making it more than that. I feel privileged that I have both TV's in my home. If someone where in my position, I would hope they would do the same.

Your just mad the thread is about a KURO and not about a Samsung 950.

Not really, I'm not in love with any display.

Anyway, I don't know if you checked out TweakTV site. But some had a question about Pioneer vs. Panny and here's an excerpt of what was said.

"This is a really important topic and we appreciate you bringing it up. Please read this piece by Kevin Miller on the 20 series when you http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/pioneer-pdp-6020fd-calibration.html . With that said a properly calibrated 20 series is not as good as an Elite. The 800 series is superior to the 20 series. However, the 11 series Panasonic Commericial panels are better than both. In fact, a properly calibrated Panasonic 11 series (UK series) competes with the Pioneer Elite's."

Please give me your opinion.

Not really, I'm not in love with any display.

Anyway, I don't know if you checked out TweakTV site. But some had a question about Pioneer vs. Panny and here's an excerpt of what was said.

"This is a really important topic and we appreciate you bringing it up. Please read this piece by Kevin Miller on the 20 series when you http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/pioneer-pdp-6020fd-calibration.html . With that said a properly calibrated 20 series is not as good as an Elite. The 800 series is superior to the 20 series. However, the 11 series Panasonic Commericial panels are better than both. In fact, a properly calibrated Panasonic 11 series (UK series) competes with the Pioneer Elite's."

Please give me your opinion.

So, what's your point? I think you are taking my thread the wrong way. If anything, I'm stating that the Panny is a fantastic display especially for the money. There were times during DK where I'd almost call it a draw. I am basically saying its almost neck and neck. This thread was not made to be I LOVE A KURO thread. If anything, you've turn this thread into a Kuro bashing thread. Just comparing the 2 TV's that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Since your not in the market for a Kuro or a Panny, I'm surprised you are even posting.

And we all know you LOVE Samsung. :)

What I said on the other thread: "Some people (my wife for one) wouldn't be able to see or appreciate the difference between a Kuro or a Vizio or Westinghouse, but they (she) would be able to appreciate the size differences."

While it's true that she has not had Kuro enthusiasts ‘influencing’ her experience, it goes way beyond that. Her eyes and her mind just don’t go there. Mine does. I have two advanced degrees in the Visual Arts and so I’m oriented that way. I understand color, detail brilliance, etc., where she looks at an image and sees a sad or happy face. It’s just different.

Her ‘ignorance’ is truly her bliss as she does not see the dead pixel nor the banding or the green shadows. WOW… to be there! But I do. We do. We strive for the perfection that WE are conscious of.

As humans, we can not help but be influenced by our environment. We have difficulty remaining un-biased by brand name or hype. We are creatures that are swayed by peer pressure. These are gross generalizations that are not true for all.

Many of us don’t really get dragged in by hype. Some actually go the other way intentionally to protest it. I see it, hear it, read it and do my best to ignore it when evaluating what is in front of me.

One has to wonder about general consensus. If EVERY SINGLE A/V magazine says that the ClearAudio phono cartridge is the best that money can buy… well… that may mean something. If all the major A/V mags say that the Kuro is the cream of the crop… well, that may mean something as well.

I may buy the Panny 65” 850u because I don’t feel the difference between it and the Kuro 151FD is worth the loss in real estate, but I’ll do it believing from what I’ve seen and personally witnessed that I just might not be owning the very best image-producing device out there.

But that’s my choice and I can live with that.

Cheers

shane

Good post! The size of the screen has a dramatic effect on your viewing pleasure. You also have to keep in mind that the Panny is not that far from the Pioneer in picture quality. I certainly would concede the blacks on the Kuro are better than anything on the planet, but the Panny is the next best thing, and certainly not a "distant" second. If I had the monetary resources and the space, I'd pony up for the 103 inch Panny and it only has a meager 5,000 to 1 contrast rating, but the "atmosphere" that size of a display would have on your viewing would be incredible.

When I watch HD on my Panny Plasma, I don't look for the flaws. If you do that, you will always find something on any display. I don't understand how some of the biggest critics ever survived the CRT years. Talk about screen reflection and light affecting the picture. I remember in the 80's when my Mitsubishi(40 inch)rear projection set and my Laser Disc movies were the envy of my friends. I've seen a lot of sweeping changes over the years and we are in a golden age of electronics right now. The money you can now get a 58 inch Panny for used to be what you would pay for a rear projection set of dubious quality.

Not really, I'm not in love with any display.

Anyway, I don't know if you checked out TweakTV site. But some had a question about Pioneer vs. Panny and here's an excerpt of what was said.

"This is a really important topic and we appreciate you bringing it up. Please read this piece by Kevin Miller on the 20 series when you http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/pioneer-pdp-6020fd-calibration.html . With that said a properly calibrated 20 series is not as good as an Elite. The 800 series is superior to the 20 series. However, the 11 series Panasonic Commericial panels are better than both. In fact, a properly calibrated Panasonic 11 series (UK series) competes with the Pioneer Elite's."

Please give me your opinion.

Dude, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can no longer keep quiet on this. Why do you insist on hijacking this thread? It was started by the OP as a direct, non-scientific (his opinion only, based on his viewing environment and habits) comparison between two highly sought-after displays; the Panasonic 58pz850u and the Pioneer 5020. He's made no secret that this is his opinion only, on these two displays only. It's a valuable thread, because there are many people that are considering these two sets head to head, and it's nice to hear the opinion of someone who has both in his home.

So why are you bringing up a comparison between displays that aren't even part of the discussion in this thread? What's your point with that (actually, don't answer that; we all know your point)?

If you think that every single thread on here has to have scientific validity when products are compared, I suggest you take some time to look at the other threads. Very few of the comparisons come anywhere close to a scientifically-valid, controlled test.

Don't insist on invalidating this comparison because it doesn't hold up to your own standards. If you must, why don't you devise your own test, adhering to accepted strict standards of unbiased comparison, and present your results in a new thread. Some of us would LOVE to see that (seriously). However, this thread makes no pretense about what it's about, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

It gets extremely tiresome when people just get on a thread and p*** all over it because it's not exactly what they want to discuss, or presents an opinion or viewpoint contrary to your own.

Not really, I'm not in love with any display.

Anyway, I don't know if you checked out TweakTV site. But some had a question about Pioneer vs. Panny and here's an excerpt of what was said.

"This is a really important topic and we appreciate you bringing it up. Please read this piece by Kevin Miller on the 20 series when you http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/pioneer-pdp-6020fd-calibration.html . With that said a properly calibrated 20 series is not as good as an Elite. The 800 series is superior to the 20 series. However, the 11 series Panasonic Commericial panels are better than both. In fact, a properly calibrated Panasonic 11 series (UK series) competes with the Pioneer Elite's."

Please give me your opinion.Please explain to me how by your standards, the source of this quote is suddenly credible. You have stated time and again that if a publication (in this case TweakTV) is supported by corporate partners and/or advertising for products that it reviews, then its columnists can be nothing more than "hacks". Yet you often quote articles that rate Kuro displays as something less than best in class as support for your own views. Are they only credible if you get to cherry pick the POV?

You can't have it both ways, you're going to have to choose one side or the other.

I for one find it refreshing to break away from the professional reviews. While I do appreciate them for what they are I gravitate more towards impressions from the guy next-door in plain English simply based on what he sees, especially in a situation like this where both displays are owned. It's not like he's pulling the whole "based on what I've read and seen I bought it and it's the best" bit. I would expect that many AVS members would appreciate both types of reviews as a way to balance the information they are getting by varying the source type.

Again just my 2¢ but thank you buylongterm for sharing the info with us.

Do you have pictures of the sets in action you could share?

I never thought I would be able to justify purchasing a Kuro, but the price on the 50" has fallen so fast it is only a few hundred more than the top of the line Samsung and Panasonics. Still, for a couple hundred more than the Kuro I could get a 58pz800u or Samsung 58a650 with the $200 NFL Gift Cert they are doing until the end of the month. The 58" would be more of a pain to move though, and I would have to buy a new tv stand. I have been chasing black level for the past couple years, going from cheap lcd to plasmas like Samsung, Panasonic, and Vizio. I was even considering waiting for the new NEO Pannys, but if they aren't even going to be close in black level to the current Kuros, I don't think I can wait any longer. I have seen Kuros in the store plenty of times hooked up to Blu-ray, and every time the black level just blew me away. Can I assume I will be completely blown away when I get this home and watch Blu-ray in the dark? The best black level I have personally owned so far would be the Panasonic 50px80u, but even that on dark movies with a lot of dark scenes is not all that impressive.

I plan posting some suggested "proper" methods for scientifically comparing displays from a true video expert and not from a magazine hack.


That's fine, ON YOUR OWN THREAD, not this one. It's hard to believe that a guy with over 6,000 posts on here can't grasp the concept of a comparison that has nothing to do with numbers, just visual comparisons.





Rain Man is not a fictional character, he posts on AVS.

Unless you do an unbiased scientific comparison, there's very little value to this.

There are specific guidelines for doing such as a comparison. AVS forum comparisons are really not that good because 9 times out ten the mind has be predisposed to believe the Kuro is better, no matter what, therefore bias cannot be eliminated or controlled.

Someone commented that they girl friend or wife could not see a huge difference between the Panasonic and the 5020. Well, that's because her mind have not been influenced to believe the other way. In that case, she's an objective impartial observer.

Folks,

This guy is just trying to hijack yet another thread. He made the exact opposite claim to his above quote when he was pushing an LCD item. Here is what he posted then.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15666326&highlight=#post15666326


"I don't need any numbers, the thing speaks for itself, there are people choosing top flight LCD's over plasmas. I know you may not believe it but its true."

And on this post he tells the person to "trust your own eyes", something he is arguing against the OP of this thread doing. Just put him on your ignore list.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15623723&highlight=#post15623723

"The A860 is a great TV. Great blacks, true whites, thinner, lighter and more energy efficient than other display. Trust you own eyes and pockets of course."

Do you have pictures of the sets in action you could share?

I never thought I would be able to justify purchasing a Kuro, but the price on the 50" has fallen so fast it is only a few hundred more than the top of the line Samsung and Panasonics. Still, for a couple hundred more than the Kuro I could get a 58pz800u or Samsung 58a650 with the $200 NFL Gift Cert they are doing until the end of the month. The 58" would be more of a pain to move though, and I would have to buy a new tv stand. I have been chasing black level for the past couple years, going from cheap lcd to plasmas like Samsung, Panasonic, and Vizio. I was even considering waiting for the new NEO Pannys, but if they aren't even going to be close in black level to the current Kuros, I don't think I can wait any longer. I have seen Kuros in the store plenty of times hooked up to Blu-ray, and every time the black level just blew me away. Can I assume I will be completely blown away when I get this home and watch Blu-ray in the dark? The best black level I have personally owned so far would be the Panasonic 50px80u, but even that on dark movies with a lot of dark scenes is not all that impressive.

That is my goal this weekend. To take tons of pictures and possibly some video. I've been so busy this week, I haven't had time to play with either TV. I promise there will be more to come in the next few days.

I promise when you get the Kuro home you will get chills. I got them with the Panny and I got them with the Kuro. Take everything you've seen in the store and throw it out the window. When that Kuro gets in your home, the first thing you will say is it's worth EVERY penny and you'd probably say if you had to pay even more, you would.

We need to get this thread back on course.

Chris.
You rock.
This is a great thread and most who have contributed have added positively to it.

I look forward to more of your observations as the panels put on more hours!

Thanks to all. As usual, the best AVS threads make these visits worthwhile.:D

cheers

shane

I for one find it refreshing to break away from the professional reviews. While I do appreciate them for what they are I gravitate more towards impressions from the guy next-door in plain English simply based on what he sees, especially in a situation like this where both displays are owned. It's not like he's pulling the whole "based on what I've read and seen I bought it and it's the best" bit. I would expect that many AVS members would appreciate both types of reviews as a way to balance the information they are getting by varying the source type.

Again just my 2¢ but thank you buylongterm for sharing the info with us.

Thank you. That's all I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to push anything down peoples throats. If someone is on the fence with these 2 TV's (and only these 2 TV's), then this thread is for them. It's only 1 of many different comparisons people can use.

Chris.
You rock.
This is a great thread and most who have contributed have added positively to it.

I look forward to more of your observations as the panels put on more hours!

Thanks to all. As usual, the best AVS threads make these visits worthwhile.:D

cheers

shane

Thank you! Pictures and video to come!

I wear an aluminum helmet so that the Kuros can't influence my thoughts.

That is my goal this weekend. To take tons of pictures and possibly some video. I've been so busy this week, I haven't had time to play with either TV. I promise there will be more to come in the next few days.

I promise when you get the Kuro home you will get chills. I got them with the Panny and I got them with the Kuro. Take everything you've seen in the store and throw it out the window. When that Kuro gets in your home, the first thing you will say is it's worth EVERY penny and you'd probably say if you had to pay even more, you would.

We need to get this thread back on course.

I'll give Jack Bauer a call and get rid of the hijacker on this thread. I just want to say how cool it is for you do this comparison. My next plasma will probably be another Panny, BUT, you certainly make a compelling case for the Kuro.

One thing I gotta say is that you certainly have more "gonads" than I do. NO way I would ever move my Panny to another location for a test. I realize that you don't have it hooked up to a big system right now, but still.......whew. If it's snowing like crazy and cold are you still going to do it? You live in Illinois right? Make sure you warm that puppy up gradually.

I for one find it refreshing to break away from the professional reviews. While I do appreciate them for what they are I gravitate more towards impressions from the guy next-door in plain English simply based on what he sees, especially in a situation like this where both displays are owned. It's not like he's pulling the whole "based on what I've read and seen I bought it and it's the best" bit. I would expect that many AVS members would appreciate both types of reviews as a way to balance the information they are getting by varying the source type.

Again just my 2¢ but thank you buylongterm for sharing the info with us.+1

I value in home, side by side comparisons as much or more than reviews. I have a 50" screen that feels as though it's shrunk, and I'm considering upgrading to a 58" Panny, Sammy, or 60" Kuro. This thread is of great personal interest to me, and I appreciate the OP putting out there.

I'll give Jack Bauer a call and get rid of the hijacker on this thread. I just want to say how cool it is for you do this comparison. My next plasma will probably be another Panny, BUT, you certainly make a compelling case for the Kuro.

One thing I gotta say is that you certainly have more "gonads" than I do. NO way I would ever move my Panny to another location for a test. I realize that you don't have it hooked up to a big system right now, but still.......whew. If it's snowing like crazy and cold are you still going to do it? You live in Illinois right? Make sure you warm that puppy up gradually.

Boy your not kidding! What am I thinking? Somehow I'm going to regret doing this, but it's the price I pay for a little bit of research! CubbieChris has been wondering how the 9G stacks up with his 8G elite. Story is true, we are crazy. We've been kicked out out of several electronic stores. Yes, I live in the Chicagoland area! I believe its going to be in the 30's this weekend! (No more 20 below zero I hope) I am going to measure the TV when I get home to see if it fits in the hummer standing up. I will make sure the hummer is warmed up with plenty of padding.

WISH ME LUCK! I'm doing this for everyone and my love for HD! :)

When I watch HD on my Panny Plasma, I don't look for the flaws. If you do that, you will always find something on any display.


At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I actually don't find that to be the case with the 9G Kuro when fed a clean, HD source.

I am wired to look for flaws. I wish that that were not the case (I'd have saved myself a lot of money over the years), but sadly, it's my reality.

We've all heard it, "Watching my TV is like looking through a window!" Sure it is. I have always been able to zero in on imperfections, inaccuracy, and an overall electronic and/or artificial quality inherent to every TV set I've ever owned or ever viewed. Until recently, I've never seen a true "window effect" from a television. My 111FD changed that for me. It's the first set I've seen that is capable of a true flaw-free picture (it's current pre-calibration state notwithstanding) to my eyes, and that's no small feet. As much as I love and enjoy the biggest picture that I can afford/tolerate, I'll personally take that extra level of quality over a larger screen under most conditions.

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I actually don't find that to be the case with the 9G Kuro when fed a clean, HD source.

I am wired to look for flaws. I wish that that were not the case (I'd have saved myself a lot of money over the years), but sadly, it's my reality.

We've all heard it, "Watching my TV is like looking through a window!" Sure it is. I have always been able to zero in on imperfections, inaccuracy, and an overall electronic and/or artificial quality inherent to every TV set I've ever owned or ever viewed. Until recently, I've never seen a true "window effect" from a television. My 111FD changed that for me. It's the first set I've seen that is capable of a true flaw-free picture (it's current pre-calibration state notwithstanding) to my eyes, and that's no small feet. As much as I love and enjoy the biggest picture that I can afford/tolerate, I'll personally take that extra level of quality over a larger screen under most conditions.

There is nothing wrong with being a "homer", it shows your passion and interest in the hobby(more like a lifestyle). I just don't let it consume me to the point where it ruins my viewing experience. It wasn't always like that, as I was a perfectionist for years. Now if I had an unlimited budget....things would be different. But I also plan on an upgrade in my portfolio of electronics(DSLR, HD camcorder, etc)and can't invest too heavily in one area.

Boy your not kidding! What am I thinking? Somehow I'm going to regret doing this, but it's the price I pay for a little bit of research! CubbieChris has been wondering how the 9G stacks up with his 8G elite. Story is true, we are crazy. We've been kicked out out of several electronic stores. Yes, I live in the Chicagoland area! I believe its going to be in the 30's this weekend! (No more 20 below zero I hope) I am going to measure the TV when I get home to see if it fits in the hummer standing up. I will make sure the hummer is warmed up with plenty of padding.

WISH ME LUCK! I'm doing this for everyone and my love for HD! :)

Let the force be with you!!

Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?

Let the force be with you!!

The force and a whole lotta luck!

[QUOTE=buylongterm;15678898]Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?[/QUOTe

No, unless it's underwritten by the mob. Hey, it's Chicago right.

Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?I am no authority on these things, but I'd guess that you would at least need a rider for the TV.

[QUOTE=buylongterm;15678898]Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?[/QUOTe

No, unless it's underwritten by the mob. Hey, it's Chicago right.

LOL!!! I didn't think so, but I thought I'd ask.

Definitely looking forward to the results this weekend...just be careful with the sets! :D

Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?

It'll just give you a reason to buy the Elite. :D

It'll just give you a reason to buy the Elite. :D


LOL, spoken like a true friend. If he falls on your property, he can sue and you can split the insurance proceeds. That way you can both upgrade.

LOL, spoken like a true friend. If he falls on your property, he can sue and you can split the insurance proceeds. That way you can both upgrade.

That's the Chicago way!

buylongterm -

This is one of the better posts out there. Thanks for posting! I am following this closely. I am in the market for a 58"+ plasma and have been considering the Pioneer, Panasonic, and Samsung (in that order).

Buylongterm,
So far this is the best thread I've read on the two tvs.
I've been debating the 50pz850U to the 5020 for awhile now.
I think my situation is much like yours.
I have a well light room with several floor to ceiling windows facing south. Nice lighting. The TV would be placed on the west wall. No sun sets in this room. I would watch broadcast TV, DVDs and Blueray when I buy one. Will set up suround sound later. Just out from the box with some small tweeks which one would you buy for my situation and viewing? Cost is very close now based on price grabber.
Thanks for your input.

Speaking of bringing the Kuro to CubbieChris's house, If I drop the TV and break it, will home owners insurance cover it?

Jusy don't lay it down flat. Keep it propped upright at all times. Good luck, and great idea for a shootout!

I am extremely late to the party, but I wanted to chime in.

Re: Auditors constant bickering, I highly suggest that he is ignored if he continues, as the end result will be the closing of this thread, which would be a shame, as has already been mentioned, is truly appreciated, myself included.

As far as scientific comparisons, those have been beaten to death, and we all know what the measurements are (which are considered a hack).

So, let's just move on, and enjoy the thread for what it is, a fun comparison amongst friends.

:)

general im glad you got a plasma panny over an lcd even if its a samsung, to my book lcd fails to deliver what plasma does, and lcd only seems to show the flaws.

No, I got the 58PZ850 but it hasn't come in yet... should be this week. I had a Sony 52XBR3 that I purchased an extended warranty on with a small chain in Nor Cal. They were going to replace my TV (which had a few flashlights and clouds) with a 52XBR6 but I opted for a store credit which I used for the 850.

The store I have the credit with does not carry Pioneer or I would have gotten the 6020 no doubt but after spending some time messing with the settings and watching scenes from Dark Knight and The Island I was pretty happy with what I saw from the 850. I also spent some time looking at the Samsung 950 but I didn't care for the AMP thing and the off axis angles and blooming were intolerable.

Pendragoon remember me i have the 42px75u as well, get the pioneer even if its non elite theirs a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUge(how many more u's u need?:D) diffrence.

This isn't helping my decision :confused: Well it is helping, but it isn't helping my wallet. :D

Would you say that the 5020 Kuro is worth getting over a 58pz800? Both of those are in my price range, I might be able to stretch it to include the 6020 but I would have to sell a few organs to do it. :eek:

I plan on sitting 6-8 feet from the screen, and I currently have a 42px75 Panasonic where the new set would go. I could actually move a 50 inch set a bit closer thanks to a lack of SDE, but I would probably leave the 58inch where the current 42inch is. I don't want to have the upgrade bug for another few years. (it came way too quick with the 42inch) the 5020 is the cheapest option of the ones I am considering which is nice, but I am worried that it will shrink on me like the 42inch did. (my previous set before the 42inch was a 28inch widescreen Sanyo HDCRT) I can get the 58pz800 for a few hundred more over the 5020, or I can go all out on a 6020 at the cost of my left lung. :D

I'm still leaning toward the 58pz800 though.

stindawg pictures will NOT justify as even a pro can take pictures even with a 1k camera, and you wont see what your EYES see from a pioneer.

Get it at home try it out if it doesnt suit you then no other tv will as this is best picture quality from a pioneer.

Do you have pictures of the sets in action you could share?

I never thought I would be able to justify purchasing a Kuro, but the price on the 50" has fallen so fast it is only a few hundred more than the top of the line Samsung and Panasonics. Still, for a couple hundred more than the Kuro I could get a 58pz800u or Samsung 58a650 with the $200 NFL Gift Cert they are doing until the end of the month. The 58" would be more of a pain to move though, and I would have to buy a new tv stand. I have been chasing black level for the past couple years, going from cheap lcd to plasmas like Samsung, Panasonic, and Vizio. I was even considering waiting for the new NEO Pannys, but if they aren't even going to be close in black level to the current Kuros, I don't think I can wait any longer. I have seen Kuros in the store plenty of times hooked up to Blu-ray, and every time the black level just blew me away. Can I assume I will be completely blown away when I get this home and watch Blu-ray in the dark? The best black level I have personally owned so far would be the Panasonic 50px80u, but even that on dark movies with a lot of dark scenes is not all that impressive.

Pendragoon remember me i have the 42px75u as well, get the pioneer even if its non elite theirs a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUge(how many more u's u need?:D) diffrence.


I remember, but this time, I'm not buying a holdover display, I'm looking for a keeper, and size right now is my main reason for the upgrade bug, which is why I am looking at 58inch displays. Sure the 5020 may be better than the 58pz800, but it is also 8 inches smaller (and about $500 cheaper....), however, if the 6020 was under 3k, it would be there in the running as well.

I honestly feel that if I get the 5020, I'll be wanting to get a bigger set in less than a year, where as with the 58pz800, it will take longer thanks to the size of the display. (harder to justify the upgrade thanks to the size factor) PQ may be important, but size matters, just ask all the Sony XEL-1 owners if the PQ makes up for the size. :D

Recent studies conducted in a variety of female age groups have revealed that more inches is good.

Recent studies conducted in a variety of female age groups have revealed that more inches is good.

Well I guess yours is more than adequate

recent studies conducted in a variety of female age groups have revealed that more inches is good.


lol!!!!

I remember, but this time, I'm not buying a holdover display, I'm looking for a keeper, and size right now is my main reason for the upgrade bug, which is why I am looking at 58inch displays. Sure the 5020 may be better than the 58pz800, but it is also 8 inches smaller (and about $500 cheaper....), however, if the 6020 was under 3k, it would be there in the running as well.

I honestly feel that if I get the 5020, I'll be wanting to get a bigger set in less than a year, where as with the 58pz800, it will take longer thanks to the size of the display. (harder to justify the upgrade thanks to the size factor) PQ may be important, but size matters, just ask all the Sony XEL-1 owners if the PQ makes up for the size. :D

I hate to break it to you, but it doesn't matter how big it is, you'll always want bigger. I went from a 50", 52", and now to a 60", all in less than a year. I've had the 60" for about 5 months now I think, and I am already considering selling it for a FP setup, since it is a controlled light enviornment.

Point is, get what you want, not because of size, but because of initial interest.

I hate to break it to you, but it doesn't matter how big it is, you'll always want bigger. I went from a 50", 52", and now to a 60", all in less than a year. I've had the 60" for about 5 months now I think, and I am already considering selling it for a FP setup, since it is a controlled light enviornment.

Point is, get what you want, not because of size, but because of initial interest.

Another good point, good thing I don't have a room that I could do a front projector setup, so that won't be a consideration. It just makes my choice that much harder, will I just want something bigger in a few months? Do I just get a 50inch now and upgrade again later when the bug comes back? Do I go ahead and skip a 50inch strait to the 58inch and risk the bug again? (this time leaving only the 65 inch size after that) With the 58inch I was hoping that the large upgrade in size would help with that so I didn't get the bug all that quickly and it would be harder to justify the upgrade, but by the sound of it, that won't matter one bit. :(

I hate to break it to you, but it doesn't matter how big it is, you'll always want bigger. I went from a 50", 52", and now to a 60", all in less than a year. I've had the 60" for about 5 months now I think, and I am already considering selling it for a FP setup, since it is a controlled light enviornment.

Point is, get what you want, not because of size, but because of initial interest.

You sound just like me! No matter how big of a TV you have, you will always want bigger. When I bought the 58" Panny to replace my 52" LCD, I thought WOW, that Panny is huge. Well, after a couple of days, it looks small. :)

I actually looked at the 65PZ850 but I'll start with the 58. I'm sure it was just the settings that I couldn't get to look right but for some reason the 58PZ850 seemed to render blacks much better than the 65. I tested them both with Dark Knight but the 58 was at Best Buy/Magnolia and the 65 was at Andersons. I adjusted the settings and probably spent about 20 minutes with each.

D-nice explained why a smaller screen 50" vs 60" looked more black or in this case a 58" vs 65" you are correct the smaller one has more blacks

Recent studies conducted in a variety of female age groups have revealed that more inches is good.You must've been watching those late night infomercials.

Recent studies conducted in a variety of female age groups have revealed that more inches is good.

If it ever gets to the point where 52 inches isn't enough for some female, it's time to change girlfriends. Maybe they should call you "Obi Wand" Kenobi.

I hate to break it to you, but it doesn't matter how big it is, you'll always want bigger. I went from a 50", 52", and now to a 60", all in less than a year. I've had the 60" for about 5 months now I think, and I am already considering selling it for a FP setup, since it is a controlled light enviornment.

Point is, get what you want, not because of size, but because of initial interest.

Not to drift off topic, but I've never seen a front projection unit that didn't have the "washed out" color look. I've even seen Runco units that didn't have a vibrant color presentation. I'm not one that likes the "cinema" effect, I want real colors.

BuyLongTerm, I currently own a Sony 46XBR/5, that looks fantastic. I've been thinking about switching to one of these plasma's, especially since my friend has both of them in his home also. Does the Panny and the Kuro really blow the Sony out of the water in your opinion? From looking at my set, then going to my friends house.(He's got the 110 Kuro and the Panny 80U), Ofcourse the blacks are better on his, but the colors and PQ, it's hard to tell, unless I have my tv side to side. What do you think?

I just ditched my 46XBR4 for a 5020 and couldn't be happier. Big step up in my opinion.

xtremefit....you'll gain black level, smooth motion, 4" of screen, guessing ~5x the contrast and better overall IQ.
If it is within your means, go for it.

The 4" of screen is pretty noticeable too.:)

BuyLongTerm, I currently own a Sony 46XBR/5, that looks fantastic. I've been thinking about switching to one of these plasma's, especially since my friend has both of them in his home also. Does the Panny and the Kuro really blow the Sony out of the water in your opinion? From looking at my set, then going to my friends house.(He's got the 110 Kuro and the Panny 80U), Ofcourse the blacks are better on his, but the colors and PQ, it's hard to tell, unless I have my tv side to side. What do you think?

It depends on your viewing in enviornment. In a darken enviornment the plasmas are probably going to beat the XRB4, but in moderate to brightly lit room the LCD is going to trump both of them.

Also, you get deeper black with the plasma for a filmlike preseentation, but you're not going get "true" whites and plasma screens are going to be dimmer.

BuyLongTerm, I currently own a Sony 46XBR/5, that looks fantastic. I've been thinking about switching to one of these plasma's, especially since my friend has both of them in his home also. Does the Panny and the Kuro really blow the Sony out of the water in your opinion? From looking at my set, then going to my friends house.(He's got the 110 Kuro and the Panny 80U), Ofcourse the blacks are better on his, but the colors and PQ, it's hard to tell, unless I have my tv side to side. What do you think?

It depends on your viewing in enviornment. In a darken enviornment the plasmas are probably going to beat the XRB4, but in moderate to brightly lit room the LCD is going to trump both of them.

Also, you get deeper black with the plasma for a filmlike preseentation, but you're not going get "true" whites and plasma screens are going to be dimmer.

whatever you do xtremefit, don't listen to this post.
Its bull.

I have owned both and the claims made on that guys post are incorrect.

The XBR4 (same as XBR5) is nowhere near the Tv that a kuro is.

The XBR4, will look slightly better with a large amount of sunlight hitting the panel.
But 99.9% of the time you will not have direct sunlight hitting the panel.

Both TV's will be affected badly by direct sunlight.

the XBR4 will absorb the sunlight like a sponge and spread it throughout the entirety of the panel. which destroys the blacks and makes colors look hazy and stinky. This is why the samsungs use a glossy panel instead of a matte like the XBR4. But the XBR4 will maintain brightness during this because it has a backilight.

The Kuro will reflect off the sunlight and wash out with direct sunlight hitting it. Also the phosphors will reflect.

Neither will look good in direct sunlight.

As for that guys statement about whites, it is also wrong.

Plasma are capable of displaying a totally accurate white.

that guy is getting color confused with ability to go brighter than needed.


Take it from someone who has owned both not someone who has no experience with these TV's

BuyLongTerm, I currently own a Sony 46XBR/5, that looks fantastic. I've been thinking about switching to one of these plasma's, especially since my friend has both of them in his home also. Does the Panny and the Kuro really blow the Sony out of the water in your opinion? From looking at my set, then going to my friends house.(He's got the 110 Kuro and the Panny 80U), Ofcourse the blacks are better on his, but the colors and PQ, it's hard to tell, unless I have my tv side to side. What do you think?

In all honesty, Yes. HUGE difference. I absolutely LOVED (or thought I did), the XBR5. But taking a chance, I bought the Panny to replace it. It was the first time I think I got goosebumps watching TV. Rent the BD disk "The Wild". Watch it on the Panny or Kuro. It absolutely sold me on Plasma's. Movie is OK but wait to you see the 3D picture quality. You will be in awe. I re watched about 30 BD disks and it honestly was like seeing HD for the very first time. I think the colors are more RICH and WARMER than the Sony. Everyone has to remember, that I still love a TV that pops. Most plasma guys would probably hate my settings. But, I can tell you that the Panny and the KURO pop. You can make it look like an LCD picture, but it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better.

I'll give Jack Bauer a call and get rid of the hijacker on this thread. I just want to say how cool it is for you do this comparison. My next plasma will probably be another Panny, BUT, you certainly make a compelling case for the Kuro.

One thing I gotta say is that you certainly have more "gonads" than I do. NO way I would ever move my Panny to another location for a test. I realize that you don't have it hooked up to a big system right now, but still.......whew. If it's snowing like crazy and cold are you still going to do it? You live in Illinois right? Make sure you warm that puppy up gradually.

I know I haven't fully dialed in the Kuro, but honestly, I just watch Planet Earth on both TV's and to be honest, I think as of now the Panny has a warmer, richer picture than the Kuro. It hard to explain. Don't get me wrong. The kuro picture is incredible, but it's almost like its flat? So hard to explain.

It depends on your viewing in enviornment. In a darken enviornment the plasmas are probably going to beat the XRB4, but in moderate to brightly lit room the LCD is going to trump both of them.

Also, you get deeper black with the plasma for a filmlike preseentation, but you're not going get "true" whites and plasma screens are going to be dimmer.

You seriously have to be kidding. There simply is NO comparison in any lighting. The Panny TRUMPS the Sony. I love Sony TV's. I'm not bashing them, but their isn't anything the Sony does that's better.

whatever you do xtremefit, don't listen to this post.
Its bull.

I have owned both and the claims made on that guys post are incorrect.

The XBR4 (same as XBR5) is nowhere near the Tv that a kuro is.

The XBR4, will look slightly better with a large amount of sunlight hitting the panel.
But 99.9% of the time you will not have direct sunlight hitting the panel.

Both TV's will be affected badly by direct sunlight.

the XBR4 will absorb the sunlight like a sponge and spread it throughout the entirety of the panel. which destroys the blacks and makes colors look hazy and stinky. This is why the samsungs use a glossy panel instead of a matte like the XBR4. But the XBR4 will maintain brightness during this because it has a backilight.

The Kuro will reflect off the sunlight and wash out with direct sunlight hitting it. Also the phosphors will reflect.

Neither will look good in direct sunlight.

As for that guys statement about whites, it is also wrong.

Plasma are capable of displaying a totally accurate white.

that guy is getting color confused with ability to go brighter than needed.


Take it from someone who has owned both not someone who has no experience with these TV's

Completely agree. Listen to him. He knows what's he's talking about and I always respect his posts.

xtremefit listen to everyone EXCEPT auditor55 his post is not entirely true, really if ANY tv gets hit by light NO TV will look fine, just remember our CRT TUBES were more reflective, anyways get the plasma try it out first hand expereince if you dont like it then move on.

I was blown away in a SD movie "hanecook" or something that has skin tones (the late night show in HD is amamzing as well.

Try the pioneer first or heck even a panny plasma over an lcd.

I know I haven't fully dialed in the Kuro, but honestly, I just watch Planet Earth on both TV's and to be honest, I think as of now the Panny has a warmer, richer picture than the Kuro. It hard to explain. Don't get me wrong. The kuro picture is incredible, but it's almost like its flat? So hard to explain.

what settings are you using on the kuro for the comparison?

Alright everybody, play nice now.:rolleyes:Anyhow, thanks for all the reply's. I went to the store yesterday with my friend and played around with both tv's. I think I'm going to end up selling my XBR/5 for one of these two plasma'a. Here's my question, what's the deal with the Studio Ref. Mode on the Panny? Ofcourse, that's going to be my movie mode, but when I watch my sports, I would like to use the custom mode for that like I do on my XBR/5. I've been reading that 'custom' doesn't give you the same picture quality as Studio Ref. no matter how much you calibrate. Is this true? Other than that, these are really two great sets.

xtremefit listen to everyone EXCEPT auditor55 his post is not entirely true, really if ANY tv gets hit by light NO TV will look fine, just remember our CRT TUBES were more reflective, anyways get the plasma try it out first hand expereince if you dont like it then move on.

I was blown away in a SD movie "hanecook" or something that has skin tones (the late night show in HD is amamzing as well.

Try the pioneer first or heck even a panny plasma over an lcd.

Everyone knows that LCD's does better in lit conditions. The Kuro nor Panny are not some miracle plasmas, they're no different in that regard from other plasmas, so please stop it.

You seriously have to be kidding. There simply is NO comparison in any lighting. The Panny TRUMPS the Sony. I love Sony TV's. I'm not bashing them, but their isn't anything the Sony does that's better.

I have a simple question for you, if the Panny's were such great performers in brightly lit rooms, why is Panasonic on working introducing brighter plasmas to the market?

Because the masses for whatever reason(maybe the same as why so many watch crap like American Idol) want more brightness than is both:
1. Wanted for critical viewing.
2. Needed.

I have a simple question for you, if the Panny's were such great performers in brightly lit rooms, why is Panasonic on working introducing brighter plasmas to the market?

Because brightness sells TVs in the big-box stores. Duh.

Everyone knows that LCD's does better in lit conditions. The Kuro nor Panny are not some miracle plasmas, they're no different in that regard from other plasmas, so please stop it.

Better in extremely bright conditions? Probably. In reasonable light that doesn't involve direct bright light on your set? Not necessarily.

Because the masses for whatever reason(maybe the same as why so many watch crap like American Idol) want more brightness than is both:
1. Wanted for critical viewing.
2. Needed.

Which means, if their plasmas were already bright enough, even for fans of American Idol, they would not need to introduce new technology to make them brighter.

I just said that for whatever reason the masses(joe and sue 6 packs) want more.....try reading first.

Sorry for OT BLT.

Better in extremely bright conditions? Probably. In reasonable light that doesn't involve direct bright light on your set? Not necessarily.

When I say brightly lit, such as a room with the lights well enough that one could do other task.

I was at Magnolias, they had a Pioneer 141 display in a moderately lit room, it still looked very good, but I'm sure it would have looked much better in a darken room. There is simply not a good reason to buy such a display like that if you're not going to watch it a dark room.

I just said that for whatever reason the masses(joe and sue 6 packs) want more.....try reading first.

Sorry for OT BLT.

Same thing.

Who doesn't watch movies or late night tv in the relative dark?
Same thing? I read and then responded, you obviously just respond.

When I say brightly lit, such as a room with the lights well enough that one could do other task.

I was at Magnolias, they had a Pioneer 141 display in a moderately lit room, it still looked very good, but I'm sure it would have looked much better in a darken room. There is simply not a good reason to buy such a display like that if you're not going to watch it a dark room.

LCDs look much better in a darkened room as well, as will ANY tv. And FWIW, my PRO-111FD is more than bright enough with every light on and my windows open in the livingroom.

Everyone knows that LCD's does better in lit conditions. The Kuro nor Panny are not some miracle plasmas, they're no different in that regard from other plasmas, so please stop it.

Auditor answer me this.

If Plasma performs so poorly in bright, "real-world" conditions, then when perusing the plasma forums why is it that NO plasma owners, new, converts from LCD, or experienced owners, complain that the glare is awful or the picture is washed out? Nine times out of ten new owners are nothing but satisfied with their picture quality. Occasionally people do show up saying they can see phosphor trails, or that they received a unit with stuck or dead pixels. But I have yet to see anyone complain that their PQ diminished when the unit was placed in their living room.

Both technologies have their downfalls, but that is not one for plasma.

Auditor answer me this.

If Plasma performs so poorly in bright, "real-world" conditions, then when perusing the plasma forums why is it that NO plasma owners, new, converts from LCD, or experienced owners, complain that the glare is awful or the picture is washed out?

Usually, folks that convert from LCD to Plasma is usually because of better black level performance, better off axis viewing and motion issues.

Also, I never said Plasma perform poorly in bright rooms, I even mentioned how good the Pioneer 141 looked even a lit condition. However, I did say LCD peforms better. Especially a top teir LCD like the XBR's and A series Samsungs.

Nine times out of ten new owners are nothing but satisfied with their picture quality. Occasionally people do show up saying they can see phosphor trails, or that they received a unit with stuck or dead pixels. But I have yet to see anyone complain that their PQ diminished when the unit was placed in their living room.

There are many, including knowledgeable AVS forum members, that choose LCD over plasma, if you don't believe me go to the LCD forums. I don't see a mass exodus of folks from the LCD forum going over to plasma, some are, but not in the numbers you seem to believe.

Both technologies have their downfalls, but that is not one for plasma

LCDs look much better in a darkened room as well, as will ANY tv. And FWIW, my PRO-111FD is more than bright enough with every light on and my windows open in the livingroom.

That's probably true, but In my opinion, plasma looks better than LCD in dark.

I actually prefer the overall picture of plasma because I love movies and tend to like my screen kind of dim for that kind of content.

Also, I never said Plasma perform poorly in bright rooms, I even mentioned how good the Pioneer 141 looked even a lit condition. However, I did say LCD peforms better.

Better is a subjective term as extra brightness is not always desireable. My Samsung was professionally calibrated and I was left with the option of opening or closing the iris at my leisure. With it open, the picture became MUCH brighter. I used it for a while but found that even when the room was brightly lit that I prefered it closed.

To my eyes, too much brightness creates an artificial, electronic look that gives away the fact that I'm looking at a television instead of a realistic, immersive picture. If I had bright sunlight pointed straight at the set, that would be a different story. But if that was my normal viewing environment, I wouldn't be looking at high-end plasmas or LCDs.

Usually, folks that convert from LCD to Plasma is usually because of better black level performance, better off axis viewing and motion issues.

How about the new FP owners that chose plasmas? I don't see them complaining about poor PQ in their home environments, even those with bright rooms.

How about the new FP owners that chose plasmas? I don't see them complaining about poor PQ in their home environments, even those with bright rooms.

I have a 58PZ850U that sun shines directly on in the daytime. For this, I use the standard mode because it puts outs the most light without disorted colors. It STILL looks good to me. Will an LCD perform a little better under this condition - yes maybe, but as soon as the sun shifts, the Plasma looks outstanding in a way an LCD can not approach, imo.

btw - I have converted friends that have xbrs and a650s with this baby... and then again, I still have friends who prefer the look of an LCD. It's always up to the users preference.

Can somebody answer my question please. Once again, we've gone off-topic with the Plasma vs. LCD. This thread is about the Panny and the Kuro, which I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these two, but I need more info, if we can stop the bickering that has nothing to do with this thread.

I would ask in the 850 owners thread....get a direct quick answer.

Can somebody answer my question please. Once again, we've gone off-topic with the Plasma vs. LCD. This thread is about the Panny and the Kuro, which I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these two, but I need more info, if we can stop the bickering that has nothing to do with this thread.

Is your questions regarding the studio ref mode? If so, its very comparable to the 800's THX mode. It looks outstanding in a light controlled room but may be a bit dark for someones liking. I personally like the custom mode better, gives some more light output and you have the pro options to adjust the picture more. Is one better than the other? Thats up to the user... Most calibrators prefer the custom mode for the extra options.

When I say brightly lit, such as a room with the lights well enough that one could do other task.

I was at Magnolias, they had a Pioneer 141 display in a moderately lit room, it still looked very good, but I'm sure it would have looked much better in a darken room. There is simply not a good reason to buy such a display like that if you're not going to watch it a dark room.

hogwashness.

I never watch my Tv in a dark room.
I hate the dark.

I like to have one or two lamps on at all times.

And I sit on the couch doing paperwork with the lights on all the time while watching my kuro.

Is your questions regarding the studio ref mode? If so, its very comparable to the 800's THX mode. It looks outstanding in a light controlled room but may be a bit dark for someones liking. I personally like the custom mode better, gives some more light output and you have the pro options to adjust the picture more. Is one better than the other? Thats up to the user... Most calibrators prefer the custom mode for the extra options.

Thank you!

BuyLongTerm, have you done anymore comparisons between the sets?

I've been on the fence on which Plasma to buy, the Panny 850 or the Pioneer 5020. But after reading this forum there's no question in my mind, I'm going to purchase the Pioneer 5020 this week. Does anyone know where I can get the best deal?? Also, I was thinking about purchasing a VSX-03TXH AV receiver and BPD 51FD BlueRay--any thoughts or comments.. Thank you.

I've been on the fence on which Plasma to buy, the Panny 850 or the Pioneer 5020. But after reading this forum there's no question in my mind, I'm going to purchase the Pioneer 5020 this week. Does anyone know where I can get the best deal?? Also, I was thinking about purchasing a VSX-03TXH AV receiver and BPD 51FD BlueRay--any thoughts or comments.. Thank you.

Roman O has the best deal that I see. Just go to the home page here and look under the featured ads on the left. If you want to go local, Sixth Avenue Electronics will have the best deal at the stores, but I would look at Roman O first. He's got an excellent rep.

I've been on the fence on which Plasma to buy, the Panny 850 or the Pioneer 5020. But after reading this forum there's no question in my mind, I'm going to purchase the Pioneer 5020 this week. Does anyone know where I can get the best deal?? Also, I was thinking about purchasing a VSX-03TXH AV receiver and BPD 51FD BlueRay--any thoughts or comments.. Thank you.

What's your seating distance? The 5020 will give you better blacks and a "subjectively" better picture, but you will be losing 8 inches of the Panasonic and the more dramatic movie expirence that a larger screen will give you.

I've been on the fence on which Plasma to buy, the Panny 850 or the Pioneer 5020. But after reading this forum there's no question in my mind, I'm going to purchase the Pioneer 5020 this week. Does anyone know where I can get the best deal?? Also, I was thinking about purchasing a VSX-03TXH AV receiver and BPD 51FD BlueRay--any thoughts or comments.. Thank you.

Personally, I feel that the price of the 03 is unwarranted, and I would consider the SC-05 in Pioneers AVR array. If that were out of reach, I would look at the 1018, or the 1019 which will be released shortly.

Again, if it were up to me, I would wait, and go for the SC-05, the ICE amp are a significant improvement over the 03.

What's your seating distance? The 5020 will give you better blacks and a "subjectively" better picture, but you will be losing 8 inches of the Panasonic and the more dramatic movie expirence that a larger screen will give you.

I would have to agree with your assessment regarding size v.s. quality. IMO, the PQ between the two is extremely distinguishable, and only you can decide which best suits you.

I've been on the fence on which Plasma to buy, the Panny 850 or the Pioneer 5020. But after reading this forum there's no question in my mind, I'm going to purchase the Pioneer 5020 this week. Does anyone know where I can get the best deal?? Also, I was thinking about purchasing a VSX-03TXH AV receiver and BPD 51FD BlueRay--any thoughts or comments.. Thank you.

6ave.com has the current lowest price anywhere.

Thank you for the response. My room is 12X22 with the seating area 10 feet. What do you mean by "but you will be losing 8 inches of the Panasonic and the more dramatic movie expirence that a larger screen will give you."

Thank you for the response. My room is 12X22 with the seating area 10 feet. What do you mean by "but you will be losing 8 inches of the Panasonic and the more dramatic movie expirence that a larger screen will give you."

With a larger set you're just going to be more emersed in the picture, more like being at the movies instead watching a TV. Eight inches in my opinion is a dramatic size difference.

I myself have thought about getting 5020 or 58pz800u, or keeping my current 50px60u while hoping and dreaming for great news about SED:D

By getting a 5020 I would get much better plasma than what I currently own, however I won't get any increase in dramatic cinematic expirience by going with the set the same size that I currently have. I sit at about 9 feet, a 50 inch set is cool at that distance and fits better in with the decor of the room, however I have never been happy with the size of the screen from a cinematic perspective. Its more like watching TV than being at the cinema.

With a larger set you're just going to be more emersed in the picture, more like being at the movies instead watching a TV. Eight inches in my opinion is a dramatic size difference.

I myself have thought about getting 5020 or 58pz800u, or keeping my current 50px60u while hoping and dreaming for great news about SED:D

By getting a 5020 I would get much better plasma than what I currently own, however I won't get any increase in dramatic cinematic expirience by going with the set the same size that I currently have. I sit at about 9 feet, a 50 inch set is cool at that distance and fits better in with the decor of the room, however I have never been happy with the size of the screen from a cinematic perspective. Its more like watching TV than being at the cinema.

I tend to agree. Since I know the picture quality between both TV's is not that far off, I would tend to want the bigger TV.

By getting a 5020 I would get much better plasma than what I currently own, however I won't get any increase in dramatic cinematic expirience by going with the set the same size that I currently have. I sit at about 9 feet, a 50 inch set is cool at that distance and fits better in with the decor of the room, however I have never been happy with the size of the screen from a cinematic perspective. Its more like watching TV than being at the cinema.

Move closer. Many of us grew up where a 25" set was king and it really wasn't that long ago that a 32" set was big.

I'm pretty happy with my 50" at a distance of 6.5'. If you can adjust your seating to be closer than 10 feet, I'd personally start to opt for quality over size.

I'm pretty happy with my 50" at a distance of 6.5'. If you can adjust your seating to be closer than 10 feet, I'd personally start to opt for quality over size.

That's a good distance.

Move closer. Many of us grew up where a 25" set was king and it really wasn't that long ago that a 32" set was big.

I suppose you could compensate by moving closer to the screen.

I have a question, was the 48HZ issues that the 800u allegedly had been resolved with the 850U?

I have a question, was the 48HZ issues that the 800u allegedly had been resolved with the 850U?

No, it will still flicker.

Hyundai - Genesis - Car of the year 2009, compared with BMW 5 serise, faster in 0-100, bigger rooms and trunk and cheaper. Do BMW guys make wrong decision? Is BMW 5 overestmated? I think BMW makes valuable products under good reputation. Like BMW, Pioneer do in PDP, I think.

We know that the market share of Pioneer PDP is always lower than Panny and Sammy and the price of Pio PDP is always higher than those. However, Pioneer PDP excel others in quality of picture including blacker black, motion processing and liquid colors.

If you don't care motion processing(such as flickering in 24P mode) and black level(which affects production of deep colors), you can get more inches. However, it's true that you give up the chance to get the king of PDP. Is there little diffrences between Pio and Panny? But the little differences denote the power and technology of Pionner PDP. Pioneer leads the tech of PDP and others follow Pio, not exceed yet. In addition, if you need more inches with IMO, there are many choices such as samsung pn58a550, Visio 55inch plasma and 58pz800u. PQ of Samsung pn58a550 is not bad compared with panny 58pz800u and cheaper!!

New to this forum, though I have been following the discussions for a while. I am trying to decide between the Panny 85u, 850u and the Kuro 5020, all 50 inches. I really appreciate this thread as it emulates the way in which I would be using the product.

I know the Kuro is consistently regarded as the best, but wanted to determine what I was losing in going with one of the Panasonics and saving a few bucks.

I went to the local best buy, the only real option around here, and looked at a Kuro and the two panasonics (50" 85u and a 58" 850u). The Kuro looked great especially the clarity, though a little dull on the skin tones. The panasonics looked a little brighter and seemed to pop more, but I noticed a ton of what looked like pixelation on the screen. I realize that this is likely due to the way it was setup, but both panasonics did that and none of the other TVs did with the same signal. Because of this, I feel like I am not getting a fair comparison of what the Panasonic can do.


I know the panasonic seems to be considered the best non-Pioneer plasma on this forum, but from what I saw at the store, it looked like a piece of junk. Is this pixelation normal, or should I find another store to check out?

New to this forum, though I have been following the discussions for a while. I am trying to decide between the Panny 85u, 850u and the Kuro 5020, all 50 inches. I really appreciate this thread as it emulates the way in which I would be using the product.

I know the Kuro is consistently regarded as the best, but wanted to determine what I was losing in going with one of the Panasonics and saving a few bucks.

I went to the local best buy, the only real option around here, and looked at a Kuro and the two panasonics (50" 85u and a 58" 850u). The Kuro looked great especially the clarity, though a little dull on the skin tones. The panasonics looked a little brighter and seemed to pop more, but I noticed a ton of what looked like pixelation on the screen. I realize that this is likely due to the way it was setup, but both panasonics did that and none of the other TVs did with the same signal. Because of this, I feel like I am not getting a fair comparison of what the Panasonic can do.


I know the panasonic seems to be considered the best non-Pioneer plasma on this forum, but from what I saw at the store, it looked like a piece of junk. Is this pixelation normal, or should I find another store to check out?

Do not compare plasmas by what you see in those stores, its just to hard to do. What we do know about the Kuro vs the Panny is that the Kuro has deeper blacks. The Panny has better color accuracy.

Personally, If I was set on purchasing a 50 inch, it would be the Kuro.

The 80 and 85 are known to have excessive noise in all picture modes except Cinema. I thought the 800 and 850 did not suffer from this.

Does anybody know what changes Panny's new 'V' series coming out this spring is going to have? You guys think it's worth waiting for? I can get the 850U dirt cheap.

Get out of standard mode immediatly and get into Movie.

Put in D-Nices reference settings;

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 38
Brightness: -1
Color: -4
Tint: R1
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 2

Last edited by D-Nice; 07-28-08 at 02:50 PM




Turn the sharpness up as much as you want (your preference)

also, you can turn the contrast up to 40 if you like (but I wouldn't go higher than 40 personally)

please do this and then report back if you see an improvement.:D

-Chad

Are these the best setting for everything (std def tv, high def TV including sports broadcasts, movies, etc, and also regular DVD & Blu ray) or just the best setting for BD movies?

Those are the reccomended best setings for a dim to dark room for critical viewing.

Those are the reccomended best setings for a dim to dark room for critical viewing.

Regardless of the source material?

Does anybody know what changes Panny's new 'V' series coming out this spring is going to have? You guys think it's worth waiting for? I can get the 850U dirt cheap.

Here is about all that is known about them so far:

"The VIERA V10 series are slim, 2-inch thin plasma HDTVs with built-in tuners. The V10 series offer such cutting edge innovations as Digital Cinema Color(TM) which helps to deliver all movie-essential colors, full THX Display certification, and the VIERA CAST web menu with Amazon Video on Demand services. The Neo PDP design of the V10 series features 1080p resolution; deeper blacks, improved native contrast ratio of 40,000:1; Full-Time 1080 TV lines of motion resolution; an Infinite Black panel; 600Hz Sub-field Drive; VIERA Link, and VIERA Image Viewer for playing back digital still images and AVCHD videos recorded on SD Memory Cards. The V10 series is available in a 65-inch class (64.8" measured diagonally), 58-inch class (58" measured diagonally), 54-inch class (54" measured diagonally), and a 50-inch class (49.9" measured diagonally) screen size. The 50-inch model with one-sheet-of-glass design will be available in May 2009 and the remaining models will be available in the summer of 2009."






"This new Viera series plasma will be introduced in June of 2009. The TC-P50V10 will have a slim 2" depth. It will contain a new color system that we are interested in testing dubbed "Digital Cinema Color." This new feature is designed to provide "movie-essential" colors. Not sure what that means but we'll see. Once calibrated to D6500 the TV should provide that color information free of charge, without a new color system But who know? Maybe it's an unforeseen improvement.
The TC-P50V10 also contains the Viera Cast menu system which allows video rental from Amazon through online connection. The new NEO plasma display design features 1080p resolution, deeper blacks and 40:000:1 stated contrast ratio. It also has the new 600Hz sub-field drive presumably for fast processing especially during video game playback.
"Some of these new features we just wont know about until we test them." states Robert Wiley editor for CEAG. "We know that manufacturers are notorious for overstating contrast ratio because it can be easily measured. But with some of the other features it just remains to be seen how effective they are until we can thoroughly test the TV."




Key Features



65" Neo PDP Screen
1080p Resolution
Digital Cinema Color
THX(R) Certified Display
VIERA CAST(TM)
VIERA Image Viewer(TM) with AVCHD Playback
VIERA Link(TM)
600Hz Sub-field Drive
24P Cinematic Playback
4 HDMI inputs
Contrast Ratio: Native 40,000:1
Infinite Black Panel
August 2009 Release"

Regardless of the source material?

thats a tuffy.

Source material can change everything.

I would suggest using those settings as a baseline.

Then adjust to your preference.
Thats the best way to do it.

Personally, I got out of movie mode when playing games.
Game or performance mode worked pretty well for me. I don't really care about standards or accuracy when it comes to animation or games.

thats a tuffy.

Source material can change everything.

I would suggest using those settings as a baseline.

Then adjust to your preference.
Thats the best way to do it.

Personally, I got out of movie mode when playing games.
Game or performance mode worked pretty well for me. I don't really care about standards or accuracy when it comes to animation or games.

I'm curious about sports though, football and hockey in particular. Is there a sports mode that it should be changed into, instead of movie mode?

As far as price on the 5020, I found a couple places cheaper than 6th ave. Buydig being the cheapest and Abes of Maine being 2nd cheapest. Both with free shipping and no tax.

As a side note, what is the reliability reputation of these Pioneers? My brother bought a samsung DLP TV about 3 years ago and had nothing but problems. That's why I am inquiring because he is looking for a new set now thats reliable and maintenance free. With plasma after the break in there is no bulb changing or anything, right?

Also, should the picture of this Kuro be alot better than his older DLP set was?

I had this posted in the plasma section before I found this thread, can anyone please help me decide which one to choose?.....

5020 VS TH58PZ800U for computer monitor, + tv

Please help me decide......... I am using this as a pc monitor (I know all about IR, no problem if you play it smart) and a bedroom TV for movies. Question is which tv is the better deal, and work better for me? When watching movies I sit back 11'. I am stuck on getting a pioneer 5020 or a panny 58" 800U. Price wise the 58" 800u is $400 more, but is bigger. I have tried a sammy and vizio 50" plasma, so I know the size is no problem. I just can't pick one tv over the other. I have been trying to decide for over a week. I watch movies in complete darkness and I have shades on the windows so THX mode on the panny is fine, and I don't like over bright tv's anyway. No LCD's! As I have tried a few and can't stand the flashlighting effect I see in the blacks in the corners. Help please............Thanks.

I see the 5020 has a feature called clear text or text enhancement, do you think this would make using it as a pc monitor better than the panny?

As a side note, what is the reliability reputation of these Pioneers? My brother bought a samsung DLP TV about 3 years ago and had nothing but problems. That's why I am inquiring because he is looking for a new set now thats reliable and maintenance free. With plasma after the break in there is no bulb changing or anything, right?

Also, should the picture of this Kuro be alot better than his older DLP set was?

hello. pioneer is arguably the best commercially available tv on the market. unfortunately they are stopping the production of plasma tv's. not to worry as the tv's purchased now will still have a valid warranty and replacement parts for 7 years from date of purchase. the picture quality will be much improved over dlp but is a subjective measurement as to what "better" is. plasma has no bulb that needs to be replaced, ever. hope this helps.

Hey guys, I finally went with the Elite 111FD. After a long agonizing decision, I had to accept the fact that the Pio has the superior picture. I gave the Panny every chance. I played with the settings for days. It's in my living room and it blows my XBR5 away. Hey Dennis, you want to chime in here.:)

Fellas,
Only joined today.. However, I spent three weeks looking/researching all the recommended screens, but in particular, the Panasonics. I was keen on the Pioneer 4280, but thought it would be better to get an up-to-date(Full HD 1080p etc etc) screen. The Pans just look a bit on the tacky side, whilst the Pioneer oozes class in every way. After comparing(PQ) them side by side, there was only one winner. All I needed to do now, was to locate one of them which was going to prove difficult but achievable nevertheless.

It says a lot that Pioneers of yesteryear are still being compared with the Pans of today. I was willing at the weekend to go all the way from London to Bournemouth to get a 4280, but manage to pick up an ex-display from Currys in Kingston. All I can say is that this is a totally AWESOME screen. I urge anyone out there looking to buy a new 42" television to get the Pioneer 4280xd. There are still a few available, most likely it will be ex display but as long as they are in good condition, do not hesitate.

I got one(ex display) on Saturday at the Currys in Kingston. They had it wall mounted safely out of reach from prying hands and fingers. I believe they have one more left. I know that a few of the Currys' branches in South London may still have one or two. I can't say for the other regions. But you can rest assured that none of your friends will be able to go out and buy the same tv as you. Unless of course they opt to go for the 50 / 60" screen.

Thanks Kimbo. You aren't the real Kimbo Slice, are you? :)

It depends on your viewing in enviornment. In a darken enviornment the plasmas are probably going to beat the XRB4, but in moderate to brightly lit room the LCD is going to trump both of them.

Also, you get deeper black with the plasma for a filmlike preseentation, but you're not going get "true" whites and plasma screens are going to be dimmer.

Sniping again, I see.