We're in the process of building a new home theater at my parents house. Prior to this everything was in the basement which had the unfortunate limitation of a 9 ft ceiling. Since my step dad is on his way to retiring and find himself with a lot more free time on his hands he's started going through my collection of Blu Rays and HD DVD's.

I asked him if he was interested in building a home cinema and here I am. He already has a dedicated music room which I helped him put together with some ideas from people on this board.

So here's the plan:

-Largest screen possible.

Room dimensions are approximately (35' x 25' x 16') It's separate from the main house with only a hallway between them. This was originally a "guest house" and has a closet, bathroom, and a small kitchen area which is in addition to the dimensions I posted.

-Seating for about 20 people.

I'm not sure if it's possible or how we should go about this. I've been speaking with the contractor but while he has experience with HT builds he hasn't done anything of this magnitude.

-Ease of use

My step dad doesn't know how to work a computer and he won't use the room at all if it's too complex. We had a crestron control system in his Motorhome and even that was an ordeal. I can set things up easily enough but we're going to need automatic masking without him having to mess around too much.

-Reference quality sound

He's more impressed by sound quality than ultimate video quality.

Any ideas, suggestions, or whatever else comes to mind would be a great help. Budget is not an issue at the moment but at the same time he spends a lot of time upgrading speakers and components when something "new" comes around.

Thanks

My suggestion is to contract with someone who understands room design/acoustics (many have been noted on this forum) and at least let them design the room and then if you and/or your dad are handy, you could do the build out!!

Have fun.

That is alot of cubic feet. I think coldmachine was putting together something as large or even larger...he seemed to have narrowed down the speaker choice to various pro-oriented brands, and from what I remember was leaning towards Genelec. Maybe he'll chime in.

Out of my price range and I haven't heard them, but I have been intrigued with the high-SPL pro monitors mentioned in reviews here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14909748#post14909748

the auto stuff is the hard part. for video playback, there is nothing easier or better than kaleidescape. bar none. however they do not have Blu Ray playback. nor really does anybody else. as well, the issue there is that the automated screen masking is a challenge as there is not a standardized way to do that. K does, but they program all that into the back end.

the three sides of the room are

1. AV reproduction. you have loads of options there, so it is really going to be dictated by the size of screen and cubic volume of the room. And as CM stated, they are intrinsically linked.

2. Control/automation. crestron or amx are just fine. usability has nothing to do with them. it has EVERYTHING (and then some) to do with the programmer who designs the touch panel and the background automation. biggest challenge is that most of them are far more impressed with their own cleverness than really truly making things easier.
3. Media Playback. it sounds like you need server based playback where possible. really easy, really slick, and everything at your fingertips.

I would say that you need to visit a few very well outfitted shops first to start getting a feel for things. Look at Kaleidescape, look at D-box, etc. once you have an idea of what you want in the room, then you can do the balancing act of room-needs/wants-budget. It is one thing to say budget is no options, but in this case, you ould easily spend 100K on proj and screen, then 50K on sound, then another 30K on control, 15K on acoustics, and 50K or more on decor/seating. and then construction could easily be another 50k. then for media playback, 30-40 k is easy. so without doing anything more than pulling rough numbers out of my posterior orifice, we are at 335K. THis is a number that could seriously freak some people out... unless they knew what they were getting into.

When i USED TO work for K (i no longer work there) i saw a guy freak over the cost of a K... then he played with it for 20 mins and dropped double on the config that he HAD TO have.

So all i am saying is make sure that you and your Step dad take a good long look at the toys that can be had. it can severaly affect what people feel is justified to spend.

Also, make sure that a dedicated "theatre" is what he wants. i have seen some great rooms that were a theatre with a "sports bar" in the back. lots of options out there.

I assume you have already been to the Dedicated home theater forum here. A LOT of good info there and good people to help too.

A room that size... I think just equipment / projection / seating for 20 alone will put you close to $75K to $100K (likely more) and we haven't even started pricing the build out..

I guess I can elaborate. I'm currently looking at options as far as dedicated HT design. I've contacted a few local people but I think it may be a little above their heads. A friend in Naples FL. is giving me a few contacts who he worked with. Room acoustics are paramount to achieving a great home theater.

Budget, he was not intending to spend 50k on this, think much higher. While I think a 50k setup will definitely blow most people away, I don't think 50k will even get a projector that can do what we're looking for. (Possibly the new Lumis but not sure about at this screen size)

So how big is possible in a room of this size? I'd like to go massive (hey, they all say bigger is better!) and absolutely with a 2.35 aspect screen and masking.

As for shopping around? Been there done that :)! I demoed an awesome HT with D-box and we both loved it. Maybe not something that you'd use for every movie, but definitely a cool feature to add on.

I haven't seen much of Kaleidescope, I have read a little about them, and I've seen it set up in a friends house, but I'm not sure where to demo a unit like this, and I'm not sure if it's worth it or not?

Thanks for replies so far! Hopefully once the snow melts we'll have things well under way.

According to maps.google.com, it is only 125 miles from Naples to Miami, so check out Peter. Some great theaters by him on this forum. Go for one of his favorite screens the SMX with speakers behind the screen, so you can go for a wall to wall screen. Let's say 6 meters wide, that would leave 2 feet on each side for the masking. This dictates a nice DCI machine, the 1500 without the contrastmods might do it, otherwise look into Wolfgang Mayer's thread on his 7 meter screen for the next step up, the Barco 2000 beamer. You might even get a 7 meter wide screen in, aswell, as that equals 23 feet.

Edit: Oops, it is your friend, and not you/your parents that is located in Florida (snow reference?) STill check out the thread in the f=86 section I mentioned.

Thanks for the plug Donald. Well if CokeandBeer is in Naples with his family I might be able to show them what a great sounding multichannel Levinson/Dynaudio system can be when integrated into a professionally designed space. As good as the theater you visited is I doubt that you experienced anything near what was accomplished at Helene and Prometheus. PM if interested in a demo.

regards

You're welcome Peter, however if they really love their big screen, you won't be able to sell 'em on those mods of yours;-). Does SMX sell its 4-way masking screens in BIG sizes, such as 6 to 7 meters wide?

Really Donald? How do you know?

http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/IMG_0609.jpg :D, :D

Those definitly have not had most of their light cut off befor it hits the polarizers;-).

I guess I can elaborate. I'm currently looking at options as far as dedicated HT design. I've contacted a few local people but I think it may be a little above their heads. A friend in Naples FL. is giving me a few contacts who he worked with. Room acoustics are paramount to achieving a great home theater.

Budget, he was not intending to spend 50k on this, think much higher. While I think a 50k setup will definitely blow most people away, I don't think 50k will even get a projector that can do what we're looking for. (Possibly the new Lumis but not sure about at this screen size)

So how big is possible in a room of this size? I'd like to go massive (hey, they all say bigger is better!) and absolutely with a 2.35 aspect screen and masking.

As for shopping around? Been there done that :)! I demoed an awesome HT with D-box and we both loved it. Maybe not something that you'd use for every movie, but definitely a cool feature to add on.

I haven't seen much of Kaleidescope, I have read a little about them, and I've seen it set up in a friends house, but I'm not sure where to demo a unit like this, and I'm not sure if it's worth it or not?

Thanks for replies so far! Hopefully once the snow melts we'll have things well under way.

Want to save a ton on keeping from having to repeatedly change out speakers and other gear to keep stepping up? Get the room done right.

If you can get past the sticker shock, and keep them on the pragmatic rather than "because we can" end of their capabilities, I would highly recommend talking with Keith Yates Design Group.

I would also contact Dennis Erskine's well proven operation and see what "fits" best. Contrasting these two with a few turnkey integrators (like Peter) should allow for a much more informed decision. Decisions such as maximizing screen size have to be balanced with planning of the room and seating. Keep focus on the total experience and end result rather than individual components, and you will keep the stress level down in making decisions. That's not to say don't search out top performing components, but rather make sure they are the top performing components which are appropriate for your use (said by a guy who's bills are paid by designing loudspeakers and subwoofers! :o)

I would also contact Dennis Erskine's well proven operation and see what "fits" best.

I approve of this message! :) Even at the very early stage my project is on, Dennis has been a major source of help! Very excited about him designing my room.

Sean

Contrasting these two with a few turnkey integrators (like Peter) should allow for a much more informed decision.

Since when are you an expert on my services Mark? I prefer not to be pigeonholed thank you. I use Steve Haas of SH acoustics (http://www.vimeo.com/2831155) for the serious acoustical design, which is only matched by Keith Yates, Steve is used by many HT designers including Theo.

Yet for all of the acousticians expertise the room design and visual experience have to take precedence, there is no hocus pocus in making a 35 by 25 by 16 foot room sound great. The proof is in the pudding, the proof is in the pudding, the proof is in the pudding.

With the right speakers and a rotary subwoofer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU_AwPoI9zs&feature=channel_page)it is a far simple task that you guys are making it out to be.

C&B has been invited to audition the latest moons under no obligation whatsoever, there he will hear and see a system perhaps EXACTLY like what I would use in his space with some of the exact same acoustical treatments, sightlines, risers etc. with the exact same projector selected by the top two videophiles in the forum and handpicked by an A list Film Director whose initials are SS. Particularly fitting for a 24'4" wide 2.40 cinemascope screen I must say, and also the same projector used in both east and west coast Directors guilds on screens of similar size. Except here they are rec 709 mastering reference superkontrast units.

C&B and his dad will have a chance to experience MAXIMUM cantilevering d-box platforms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F96v2_SbH-k&feature=channel_page), an "intriguing" projector screen combination that converts 2d into 3d (http://www.vimeo.com/2996064), Dynaudio far field fronts/near field surrounds driven by Mark levinson behind a wall to wall acoustically transparent masked screen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoBcLC-1HM&feature=channel_page) , the rotary subwoofer (indispensible for his room unless he wants to stack 30 subwoofers) the most unreal multichannel superaudio cd surround sound via Esoteric front ends with a mercurial dynamic soundstage that fills every nook and cranny of the 31x16x14 room unrestrained. The new Pioneer elite blue ray player, the new tact audio mark III with mc LPCM , possibly a Dolby Movie server playing 7.1 uncompressed, the axonix blue ray server. Then at the end of the day they can compare projectors to the finest high brightness high contrast HT projector of the moment, the titan Reference (whose presentation is still ahead of the Lumis until sim2 can engage the sharp unmask function).;)

Where else could they see that? Particularly if C&B is often in these woods.

Anybody opposed for him and his to try it out please raise their hands. Mark? Sierra Alpha? Thank you, I thought so.

I say let the man listen and experience. If he is not totally epiphanised and paradigm shifted out of his own expectations by the moments then let him continue his merry way looking at prepackaged "fits every budget" solutions and or themed theater designers. Jack of all trades master of none. There is a reason the moons of saturn are discussed in this forum and not the HT Builds forum.

But please stop making a mountain out of the simplest possible room acoustics possible.;)

Since when are you an expert on my services Mark? I prefer not to be pigeonholed thank you.

Peter, I took Marks comment to be complimentary.

Peter, I took Marks comment to be complimentary.

Oh. Maybe? Thanks Mark, I had a similar reaction when Pat Riley called me a salesman. I had to go lay down for two hours.

I do not consider myself an integrator, an integrator goes to cedia learns and applies learned knowledge when plying his trade, you will find most of my art is often generally untried, a few years ahead of cedia, controversially high risk, or propietary. The integrator imitates the creator. The integrator does what the acoustician tells him without second guessing, the creator has a vision and invites the acoustician to challenge his own preconceptions and work around the creators vision. The Integrator has no bigger obligation than providing professionalism, the creator vests a litlle bit of his own existence into the end product.

It is really not that difficult to create extraordinarily musical surround sound these days particularly in a room with those dimensions. You have to design the coolest possible space first with incredible well placed seating, lighting, walkways, with the biggest freakin screen possible THEN YOU OPTIMIZE and compromise. ;)

Anybody opposed for him and his to try it out please raise their hands. Mark? Sierra Alpha? Thank you, I thought so.



Peter,

I don't recall mentioning you at all in my post above.

Sean

Hi Peter,

At least coldmachine understood my reference. To think how you might have blown up if I didn't recommend talking with you! :rolleyes:

Chill out a little... enjoy a dance or two. ;)

Since when are you an expert on my services Mark? I prefer not to be pigeonholed thank you. I use Steve Haas of SH acoustics (http://www.vimeo.com/2831155) for the serious acoustical design, which is only matched by Keith Yates, Steve is used by many HT designers including Theo.


Peter, I took Marks comment to be complimentary.

Oh. Maybe? Thanks Mark, I had a similar reaction when Pat Riley called me a salesman. I had to go lay down for two hours.

I do not consider myself an integrator, an integrator goes to cedia learns and applies learned knowledge when plying his trade, you will find most of my art is often generally untried, a few years ahead of cedia, controversially high risk, or propietary. The integrator imitates the creator. The integrator does what the acoustician tells him without second guessing, the creator has a vision and invites the acoustician to challenge his own preconceptions and work around the creators vision. The Integrator has no bigger obligation than providing professionalism, the creator vests a litlle bit of his own existence into the end product.

A statement/correction of what you provide would have been welcomed. Your rant about the term "integrator" is entirely focused on a limited connotative definition of the term rather than what was actually said. I should have noted that Dennis Erskine also has a full team to integrate and turnkey a complete room, not just act as designer/consultant.

My quick post (sorry, I've been busy) specifically used the term "turnkey integrator" to encompass those providing a start to finish solution covering the build out through the control system. If we were savvy to the construction world, we'd call you a design/build contractor, with the definition fitting regardless of your projects being the most boring of designs or at the most bloody of edges/extremes.

In the end your message was not much different than mine, although you are engrossed in the methods and means. Focusing too much on any one aspect and forgetting another misses the point that we watch/listen to the system in a room and not a component in isolation.

Really Donald? How do you know?

http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/IMG_0609.jpg :D, :D

Wow Peter, I imagined your head even bigger given your comments in this thread. Your arrogance is certainly no way to woo a potential customer no matter how talented you are.

Wow Peter, I imagined your head even bigger given your comments in this thread. Your arrogance is certainly no way to woo a potential customer no matter how talented you are.


You think TJ?

But I am such a sweetheart in person...:D:D:D

http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/cineramax2009.jpg


Found this picture which is germain to the discussion

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/h-speaker-array.jpg