Anyone else have this problem?

I have both a Moto 6412 HDMI DVR and a Cablecard connected to the same set. My wife and I both like the simplicity of the card and I like the fact I can better diagnose where any problems lie when there are service issues. We subscribe to Comcast Digital Classic w/HD.

I must have had 30 cards replaced over the 3.5 years I've had the set. It's always the same thing. You see tearing across the screen on certain channels, sometimes hear a pop or two and then the process has begun. Depending on how long I let it go before calling for replacement, I can lose anywhere from a channel or two to dozens.

Techs are usually pretty good about replacement and the better ones always come prepared with a few cards pre-authorized so initialization is much quicker. The bad ones either have only one card and it doesn't even fire up the internal fan in my set or have to wait on the phone queue for an eternity to plug in the numbers and get authorized.

Through the years Comcast has said it is the Motorola cards..Motorola says it is a Comcast issue. I tend to believe the latter.

If I didn't live in the People's Republic of Gaithersburg, Md., I'd already have FIOS and said goodbye to Comcast from Hell.

Many people prefer to believe the worst about their cable company, because they're the folks who they're sending checks to. However, that vitriol doesn't really rationalize the assumption that the fault rests there. Rather, in the case of CableCARDs, there is a strong argument that the technology, itself, is very prone to failure. Had the FCC allowed more time for an implementation of separable security to come about, then perhaps we'd be enjoying the benefits of such an implementation now, instead of being stuck with the sucky implementation that cable companies were forced to have ready five years ago.

FiOS has problems with CableCARDs as well. The grass is always greener...

Bicker 1,

Understand and agree for the most part.

My beef is mainly in the implementation. Bottom line, all a one-way cablecard really has to do is decrypt scrambled channels. What is so hard about that? The problems seems to lie in other areas of software programming which to my mind have nothing to do with Cable card usage but everything to do with Comcast's (or any other provider's) other peculiar proprietary interests. I've had Comcast tech supervisors at the head end pretty much tell me the same thing. How many series of Cablecards have come down the pike since initial implementation and they still keep failing miserably? It only has to perform one rather simple function.

And yes, the grass is Always greener...:p

I have an LG HDTV with a cable card and have never had a problem in over two years. I am with Time Warner in Nebraska.

And that's exactly my point about Comcast.

Not saying there aren't Time Warner (or other vendor) customers out there with similar issues as mine. I'm sure there are. But Comcast seems to be in a category all its own in my experience.

Of course some could say the only constant in all of this hassle is my set and perhaps it has a problem. If it does, I don't have the slightest idea what could be happening internally to make all of the channels present after installation of a new card begin to disappear over time. My small set fan always runs when a card is present so I doubt it's a heat issue.

What is so hard about that? "If you have to ask, then you can't afford it."

Based on the reality which is readily apparent, in a variety of discussion forums about a variety of MSOs, you can see that the answer is that it is hard. Go forward what that understanding, and discard that notion that it is, in any way, easy.

And that's exactly my point about Comcast. Not saying there aren't Time Warner (or other vendor) customers out there with similar issues as mine. I'm sure there are. But Comcast seems to be in a category all its own in my experience.How many years have you had Time Warner Cable service?

I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

Heh, everyone thinks their cable/sat company is the worst.

But Comcast seems to be in a category all its own in my experience.


And Los Angeles seems to be the smoggiest city in my experience. Never mind that I've never been to Beijing or Mexico City or Sao Paulo or...

Bicker,

As I stand ready to be educated on subjects about which I claim no expertise, it might behoove those who feel the need to post to try and do so in a more congenial manner. Exactly where does my offense lie? Complaining at all? Singling out Comcast specifically? Not understanding the failings of the technology?

I'm not saying......I'm just saying.

I would say over 30 cards in less than 3.5 years is a bit much....but not the end of the world.

Tulpa,

I wasn't aware I had made my remarks into a contest over whose provider is worst. If I gave that impression then 'my bad'. If someone out there with another CC has had more than 30 cards in the same time period... then 'mea culpa', I'll confess my latest brazen conceit to Father O'Malley next Friday. :rolleyes:

I like the fact I can better diagnose where any problems lie when there are service issues.
Apparently, there may be a flaw in your logic. :D

Exactly where does my offense lie? ... Singling out Comcast specifically? Not understanding the failings of the technology?Yes. You set the tone for the thread here: "Through the years Comcast has said it is the Motorola cards..Motorola says it is a Comcast issue. I tend to believe the latter." So having raised the question of whether it was a Motorola issue or a Comcast issue, discussion of that question became relevant to the thread.

Bicker,

Aptly named...you chose well. So are you defending Comcast or just feel like picking a fight over nothing? So the technology is not well implemented and that explains the 30 or more cards...fine.

Ratman,

Your names say it all. I'm sure I'm not the first to make that claim around here. The only flaw in my logic of late was posting anything to this forum. I get nothing but burrs up peoples as*es instead of any kind of helpful discussion. Thanks for all of the kind words. I like give & take as much as the next guy but 56 years come tomorrow has taught me a thing or two about life and precious time. I see now why I've never posted on this forum before. 2 more for my ignore list.

You all have a nice day.

So are you defending Comcast or just feel like picking a fight over nothing?Rather, I'm keeping the discussion balanced. I couldn't care less about Comcast, or AT&T, or Time Warner, or American Airlines, or Disney, or Verizon, or Viacom, or Dell, or Microsoft, etc.

So the technology is not well implemented and that explains the 30 or more cards...fine.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Bicker, Aptly named...you chose well. ...Ratman, Your names say it all. I'm sure I'm not the first to make that claim around here.You do realize that, even in this back-handed manner, calling people names doesn't add to your credibility. Please just accept people as they are, accept that people are going to disagree with you, and interact with them on an issues-based level, instead of stooping to school playground-type rhetoric. Thanks.

The only flaw in my logic of late was posting anything to this forum. I get nothing but burrs up peoples as*es instead of any kind of helpful discussion.You seem to imply that the only way discussion could be "helpful" would be to support your weakly-supported ranting. Nothing could be further from the truth. The most helpful people can be is to provide information, knowledge and insights to folks who don't full understand the reality of the situation -- in other words, to impart to you things that you do not already know or think.

You all have a nice day.Good tidings to you, as well.

Wow... very sensitive. Get over it old fella. ;)

Bicker,

A fine post. It's my Birthday today so I felt like starting afresh and attempting a rethink.

Perhaps I misread your earlier replies but I still do not understand the attitude given. I'm fairly confident that your posts were meant to educate me on the prevailing problem of Cablecard failure. What puzzles me is what exactly in my replies gave you the impression that this was not acceptable to me or gave me a problem other than the following...

If all a Cablecard has to do is decrypt, I wondered what could be the problem...e.g. what's so hard about that? Obviously I haven't researched the sources you mentioned or I wouldn't have posted in the first place...or at the least would have posted differently. I still would like to know what is so hard about simple decryption and in fact suspect (as previously posted) that the software complexity has more to do with other proprietary interests of the providers. I would gladly be proven wrong in this suspicion.

I believe any thread related misunderstanding from my perspective started with your comment to me about Time Warner service which still remains a puzzle as a reply to my previous posts. Even the quoted reference fails to illuminate. Or is just a general shot across the bow?... (hence the Bicker reference later on). Reread my post on this and please explain. I wasn't claiming any special status or knowledge in one one way or the other and was in fact allowing for the possibility that others have had a similar or worse experience than mine even with a different provider. If, in fact, no one with Time Warner (or any other provider) has had anything near what I had experienced, then that would simply help to reinforce my suspicions against Comcast. So your rolled eyes sarcasm yet remains a mystery. Sorry to be so dense.

Your reference to name calling and school yard rhetoric is amusing considering the mildness of my sarcasm and the totality of circumstances and the entire thread thus far (and hopefully nearing it's conclusion :)). On re-read it is nothing but a bad comedy of misunderstandings and clouded reactions. However, if true offense was taken I certainly apologize to anyone offended.

I will endeavor to give the proper research to the topic so any future postings on my part will be less apt to go awry.

Thanks for your time.

And apologies to Ratman. I am getting crusty in my old age. :)

Perhaps I misread your earlier replies but I still do not understand the attitude given.I think the first mistake is to assume it is 'attitude' rather that simply information and insight.

I'm fairly confident that your posts were meant to educate me on the prevailing problem of Cablecard failure. What puzzles me is what exactly in my replies gave you the impression that this was not acceptable to me or gave me a problem other than the following...I believe it was when you assumed I was "picking a fight", and used my and Ratman's handlesas fodder for back-handed personal attacks. Until then, I believe we were having a substance-based discussion, with suitable and appropriate responses in kind to the points being made.

If all a Cablecard has to do is decrypt, I wondered what could be the problem...e.g. what's so hard about that?First: Why assume that decryption is easy? Could you design a card, that does the necessary decryption, based on the specifications set forth in the standards?

Second, why assume that that is all the CableCARD does?

I still would like to know what is so hard about simple decryption and in fact suspect (as previously posted) that the software complexity has more to do with other proprietary interests of the providers. I would gladly be proven wrong in this suspicion. Be more explicit about your suspicion. I don't think trafficking in innuendo helps anyone.

Remember that the specification is public. The testing protocol, and test results are public. The certification process is accredited.

I believe any thread related misunderstanding from my perspective started with your comment to me about Time Warner service which still remains a puzzle as a reply to my previous posts. Well, let us be fair to you, then: What served as your foundation for the insinuation you made that "... Comcast seems to be in a category all its own in my experience". What experience, specifically, are you talking about, that prompted you to assume that Comcast was unique in this regard, i.e., worth of special note?

2 more for my ignore list.Care to comment?

After 30 cards... has anyone suspected that the TV (tuner or physical interface) may not be "playing nice" with the cablecard? May not be Comcast's or Motorola's issue.

And we know that that is one of the aspects of the technology itself. Head over to the Verizon forums, and you'll see that there is what one might consider an innate incompatibility between FiOS television service and CableCARDs in TiVos. Because FiOS' signal tends to run a bit hot, many TiVo HD owners are required to employ attenuation to get their TiVos to work reliably with FiOS television service. That shows just how sensitive this technology is to environment factors.

Clark asked, "What is so hard about that?" I suppose we should provide a direct answer: Even though we're talking about digital data, television transmission and reception, whether it is over-the-air or through a cable coax, are essentially analog activities, i.e., they exist in the real, physical world, and therefore it are subject to the laws of physics. There are myriad factors that cause problems with the transmission and reception of RF, regardless of what that RF carries, and indeed, in some ways, when the RF is carrying digital data, it is even less able to withstand problems introduced into it.

The best way of seeing this is to go to a fringe over-the-air television reception area, where you get a very snowy image on an analog channel. Well switch that channel to digital and you don't get a snowy image anymore -- you get nothing. With an analog signal the result is almost unwatcheable, while with a digital signal the result absolutely unwatchable.

And CableCARD is a digital device. It receives a digital signal, carrying information about what this customer is and is not allowed to receive, tune-in, and decrypt. If you really want to know what is so hard about what CableCARD does, you need to learn all about the nature of the transmission of digital data over a very-much analog RF carrier.

Ratman.

I considered that but have been told by many techs that this is an ongoing issue with sets in general. I'm certain if there were any suspicion of my sets culpability I would have heard from Comcast long before this. I've had all manner and level of techs out here and in phone communication and none have even hinted at the set itself. It would in fact be difficult to know what exactly could be going on when all channels are present and accounted for at each new card insertion. As I said my set has a fan dedicated to Cablecard use and it always runs when powered on. They seem to hint at bandwidth issues as the most likely culprit as the channels do tend to occur in 2 distinct places in my mixed digital line-up of SD and HD. But my equipment and all lines, cables, splitters, etc. have been thoroughly tested and or replaced/upgraded by Comcast or myself through the years.

Bicker 1,

Another fine post at #15 and rather than head down another path of misunderstanding with yet another ill worded post I will leave it alone and simply express my appreciation for your attention and civility.

Post #17 is more along the lines of what I was seeking in the first place despite the effects my early posts might have wrought. Many thanks.

I do have question for you both however---

How do you get that many posts in that period of time respectively? I see Ratman goes back aways like myself but Bicker...since Mid '06?

I type fast.

Many use Cablecards... most have intermittent problems.
You have encountered an unacceptable amount of problems. Is it the Motorola Cablecard, your TV or a combo of both? Comcast doesn't know or care. Bottom line is, you are not happy and it's probably not a Comcast problem.

IMHO, use a cable box or get a new TV. If your profile is up to date, you don't even have a "HD" capable TV (not meant to be condescending).

As for my # of posts... I try to be the devil's advocate and provide practical suggestions without trying to prove that I'm a technical guru. The number of posts mean absolutely nothing. Just another old fart that has been interested in audio/video. :)

Profile? You mean the one you can see by clicking on the username here at AVS (which I haven't updated in years :o) or the one listing my equipment in my Sig link ( much more current)? My set receives everything up to 1080i. And I do use a box. I use it for the DVR as well as the guide and also to see when there is a problem if it is strictly a line issue or something else.

In your sig... (Zenith Z42 ED Plasma).
That set has a native resolution of 852x480P. Although it "accepts" up to 1080i, it cannot display anything but 480p.

I know you have a DVR, that was stated in the opening post. I meant an additional cable box (in lieu of Cablecard).

Oh, I know my set's specs. I sit at the appropriate distance for viewing plus I've lost track of how many people including numerous techs have commented favorably on the PQ standing a lot closer than I sit. Also that set passes every HQV test on the disc. The bonus is I calibrate it myself. One day perhaps a larger Kuro but I'm very happy with what I have...audio and video. There's always better out there but you know the saying...

..."Have all that you want but want what you have."

And I do.

Also I have other boxes in the house for other sets but use the card simply because the set has great sound and it's much simpler to run than with the HT. Even with macros my wife is somewhat tech averse. A pickle, I know, but I sense a common one around here. Besides the Moto DVR box still gets plenty of use for recordings and Guide reference.

Thanks for the suggestions though. If it is my set somehow causing this or contributing in any way a new set should cure things. Only thing is I would still want Cablecard :D...silly me. I think Pio is the only major manufacturer still offering it.