I'm sick of my Panasonic EZ17 locking up, and sick if it being picky about which DVD's it will read. I have ordered a Magnavox 2106.

Has anyone tried both, and if so, do you have any thoughts?

I'm sick of my Panasonic EZ17 locking up, and sick if it being picky about which DVD's it will read. I have ordered a Magnavox 2106.

Has anyone tried both, and if so, do you have any thoughts?

I own four EZ17 models and one EZ28 model. The EZ28 model and two EZ17 models are enslaved to TCM. One EZ17 is setup cable-ready and one EZ17 is setup OTA. Running the "TCM" machines in tandem to equalize recording demands and using the "midnight bug" and "no daily/weekly scheduling" workarounds, these machines usually perform in a satisfactory manner. Yes, there are occasional lockups requiring use of the various reset methods. The most annoying problem is the "scheduled recording pause/record/freeze at 00:00:00" that requires pressing the reset button.

For important TCM programming I often schedule two machines to record the same material.

In the mix of machines used for tandem and/or redundant recording are my three hard drive machines, a Philips 3575, a Magnavox 2160 and a Magnavox 2080. The 3575 and 2160 are enslaved to TCM and the 2080 is setup cable-ready. The Magnavox 2160 has much faster high-speed dubs than the 3575 or 2080. The hard drive machines provide easy editing. (See Wajo's sticky thread for front and end cut advice not found in the owners manual.) When scheduling recordings that will later be dubbed to DVD one may need to plan recordings with a view to utilizing the high-speed dubbing feature.

There are trade-offs when transitioning from Panasonic models to Philips/Magnavox HDD/DVD models. There is no Flexible Recording. I use the SP (two hours), SPP (2.5 hours) and LP (three hours) speeds to maintain good picture quality. Yes, the Panasonic LP speed gives four hour recording at good picture quality, but the Philips/Magnavox models need to be limited to three hour recording to maintain similar picture quality. The Philips/Magnavox HDD/DVD models provide much more convenience/flexibility than the Panasonic EZ models, and at a more reasonable cost. The Philips/Magnavox may seem awkward at first, but the operating procedures will become easier with experience.

Diga,

I am fan of Pan DVRs too, have an E85 and EZ-27. E85 is headed to Panasonic for $130 surgery (needs more than a capacitor fix). I still think E85 was well ahead of its time, with true TV Guide controlled programming, fast dubbing, it was awsome, great fun while it lasted. With TVGOS (analog) in question, it will never be same again, alas.

Now the questions for the future digital plans:

1) I plan to hook EZ27 to ES85 using component and hopefully using timers program 'both simultaneasly' as both read the same remote code. So As EZ will record to -RW E85 will record to HD, both OTA. You have any suggestion for better setup?

2) I just turned lucky enough to get my hands on what might be the last "off shelf" Brand new Philips 3576 unit at Wmart, and have a Mag 2080 too. Now that 2160 are available, should I rather get 2160 instead of 3576. What is bothering me is that after the digital change over, 3576 wont set the auto-time. Do you think it is a non issue and 3576s keep the clock time well without much drift?

3) Why should I rather not opt of DTVPal DVR instead of 3576/2160 ?

Thanks

2) I just turned lucky enough to get my hands on what might be the last "off shelf" Brand new Philips 3576 unit at Wmart, and have a Mag 2080 too. Now that 2160 are available, should I rather get 2160 instead of 3576. What is bothering me is that after the digital change over, 3576 wont set the auto-time. Do you think it is a non issue and 3576s keep the clock time well without much drift?
The clock in my 3575's run pretty well, losing only a few sec/month or so.

Since you're on an antenna, either would be good tuner wise, but the 2160 seems a little better than the 3576... I just got mine recently and haven't played with it like my 3575's but they operate about the same, so really no need.

The High-Speed Dub (HSD) is about twice as fast as the 3576, which is something just recently "discovered" and tested.

The autostart recording is an easier version of Pause Live TV, and it can be copied to the HDD, unlike the PLTV.

The auto clock could be important if you're an auto-clock fan.

Menu appearance on screen is better in the 2160 with its darker contrasting colors.

Having 2 S-Video inputs could be a big advantage to multiple device users.

Probably some other diff. that might be important to some but breakfast is served! :D

P.S. If you keep the 3576 and get a 2160 too, you'll have the "dynamic duo"... can operate side-by-side with nearly identical ops., and then can use each others discs with "Make Recording Compatible" set to ON.

Now the questions for the future digital plans:

1) I plan to hook EZ27 to ES85 using component and hopefully using timers program 'both simultaneasly' as both read the same remote code. So As EZ will record to -RW E85 will record to HD, both OTA. You have any suggestion for better setup?

3) Why should I rather not opt of DTVPal DVR instead of 3576/2160 ?You have another option with the E-85. Purchase a Channel Master CM-7000 digital converter box ($60) and hook it to the E-85 via S-Video and use the IR blaster of the E-85 to control the CM-7000. This will give you a fully functional E-85 with ATSC tuner. You lose the TVGOS guide functionality and have to program the E-85 VCR style, which makes it the same as all current DVD recorders with ATSC tuners. The recorded picture quality is excellent (as viewed on a 50" 1080p plasma). It has a quirk in that the E-85 needs to be left on during a multi-event recording session otherwise the IR blaster does not reliably change the channel. As long as you do that it has been perfectly reliable. Actually, since the E-85 no longer needs to be in standby to download TVGOS data and the HDD spins down after inactivity, you never really have to turn it off. I usually leave mine on during the week.

As far as the Pal DVR, the glimmer of a cheap dual-tuner HD DVR has severely faded. Most people who have followed the thread in the other forum could not in good conscience recommend the purchase of the Pal DVR in the face of the widely reported reboot/lockup issues and Dish's ratwheel of customer service. It's going to take some time before they get it straightened out -- that is unless they pull it off the market first.

I plan to hook EZ27 to ES85 using component and hopefully using timers program 'both simultaneasly' as both read the same remote code. So As EZ will record to -RW E85 will record to HD, both OTA. You have any suggestion for better setup?

The EZ27 should be a workable digital OTA tuner for the DMR-E85H. I assume you mean to connect the EZ27 to the 85 through the "composite" connections as there are no “component” inputs on the 85. Since both machines respond to either remote this may be somewhat of an operational problem unless one machine is covered while the other is programmed or receiving operational commands.

In your situation I would change the control code for one machine and its remote and label them accordingly. The machine code may be changed in the Setup Menu (see DMR-E85H Operating Instructions, page 13) and following that the remote code may be changed by holding down the corresponding number button and the ENTER button at the same time for several seconds.

The attached photo shows labeled remotes and machines in my home office. From the top, a DMR-ES15 connected to a Zenith DTT901 CECB for OTA use (and use as a “player” for occasional dubbing), a DMR-EZ17 connected OTA (and use as a “recorder” for occasional dubbing), a Magnavox 2160 enslaved to a TCM RF pass through from a Philips 3575 in the next room, a DMR-EZ28 enslaved to a TCM RF pass through from the 2160, and a DMR-EZ17 connected Comcast cable-ready. (The 3575 in the next room is connected to a Comcast Motorola DTC700 digital cable box always tuned to TCM.)

As I swap machines in and out of service I may not always swap the remotes, as seen with the gray DMR-ES35V remote in use with the EZ17 connected OTA. I see that I need to reset the clocks on the machines.

The clock in my 3575's run pretty well, losing only a few sec/month or so.



Probably some other diff. that might be important to some but breakfast is served! :D
.
Thanks, hope you enjoyed your pancakes ;)

That is good to know, so clock is not a big issue on autoupdate.

So the plus++es. Firewire --> HDD is nice, so is nice PHILIPS nameplate and little more polished look.

Not sure how much of a PQ fanatic you are but when I tried using my EZ-27s tuner to feed a older ES series Panny (via S-video) I got a noticeably better picture using a CM-7000 instead. Recording directly on the EZ-27 I got good picture but for whatever reason feeding the tuner signal out and recording it on my ES series didn't look so hot. Similar picture as using the composite out on the CM, not the clarity as S-video on the CM box.
Also I can't remember but are you sure the EZ-27 outputs when in timer recording mode? I know the older ES series need to be powered up during scheduled recordings to output. If you weren't around to power up your EZ your E-85 may not record and since a scheduled event will NOT start unless the EZ is powered down(unlike the ES's) you couldn't just leave it on either:confused:

Thanks, hope you enjoyed your pancakes ;)

That is good to know, so clock is not a big issue on autoupdate.

So the plus++es. Firewire --> HDD is nice, so is nice PHILIPS nameplate and little more polished look.
Actually, the pic of the Mag 2160 doesn't do it justice... it's a much prettier machine than my 3575's! A tad thinner than the 3575/3576 and much "sleeker" or more "polished" looking.

Also, both have 4-pin firewire input, so no diff. there.

Also I can't remember but are you sure the EZ-27 outputs when in timer recording mode? I know the older ES series need to be powered up during scheduled recordings to output.

My EZ17 and EZ28 models power up during a scheduled recording. It is only necessary to turn the TV on and choose the correct TV input, in my case composite or component, to view the material being recorded.

Actually, the pic of the Mag 2160 doesn't do it justice... it's a much prettier machine than my 3575's! A tad thinner than the 3575/3576 and much "sleeker" or more "polished" looking.

Wajo, I also find the Magnavox to be stylish, and the Philips to be, well . . .

Of the five machines in the photo the one ES15 and two EZ17 models see little use. The Magnavox 2160 and the EZ28 are part of my TCM tandem recording setup. The two EZ17 models and the Philips 3575 in the next room are the other part of my TCM tandem recording setup.

Wajo, I also find the Magnavox to be stylish, and the Philips to be, well . . .
Yea, I've really got to find a better pic or take one myself!

My EZ17 and EZ28 models power up during a scheduled recording. It is only necessary to turn the TV on and choose the correct TV input, in my case composite or component, to view the material being recorded.

Thanks for clarifying, it's been a while since I've had a EZ-x7. Personally I prefer the ES series that just has a little red icon when it's doing a scheduled recording. When I had a EZ in the bedroom it was annoying having the display come on and advance during the night. Personal preference I suppose. I knew the display came on but wasn't sure if the line outputs became active.

Actually, the pic of the Mag 2160 doesn't do it justice... it's a much prettier machine than my 3575's!Now that you finally have one, you can see what I was talking about when I used to say the same thing about the 3575H/H2080. Much nicer-looking without that angular and glossy reflective thing going.

Looked a lot better sitting in my rack alongside everything else.

Yea, I've really got to find a better pic or take one myself!

Here is a photo showing my recording center (bedroom). From the top, a Westinghouse widescreen LCD (an "HD [un] Ready" model purchased in 2005), a Magnavox 2080 (seen recording a pan and scan version of The Sand Pebbles from cable-ready MoviePlex), an EZ17 (recording I Remember Mama from TCM), another EZ17 dedicated to TCM, the Philips 3575 dedicated to TCM, and the Comcast Motorola DTC700 digital cable box.

I don't usually record pan and scan movies but my only other copy of The Sand Pebbles is a dubbed to DVD widescreen version shown by AMC on 9/10/99, shortly after AMC dumped hosts Bob Dorian and Nick Clooney and started to show commercials between the movies.

Now that you finally have one, you can see what I was talking about when I used to say the same thing about the 3575H/H2080. Much nicer-looking without that angular and glossy reflective thing going.

Looked a lot better sitting in my rack alongside everything else.
Yea, it's not even a contest as to which looks better... the 2160 by far!

You do have to see it in person to appreciate it's sleek, modern design.

Has anyone done any “pixel peeping” to see how the Magnavox compares with the Panasonic regarding picture quality?

From reading the postings, some people say Panny has slightly better PQ. Those with the Mag/Philips units say it is as good or almost as good as the Panny.

I think about getting another DVD recorder with a digital tuner before they’re all gone. I typically record in the 2hr SP mode with my Pannys and really like the PQ. I like the idea of a hard drive, but I also would like to have the best possible PQ.

From those who have used both machines, is there any real or perceived difference in PQ?

From those who have used both machines, is there any real or perceived difference in PQ?Yes - I thought the Panny was noticably better, especially with HD material (I'm talking about mainly from their internal, digital tuners). Much sharper and more detail.

How big is your TV, and what type is it?

Has anyone done any “pixel peeping” to see how the Magnavox compares with the Panasonic regarding picture quality?

From reading the postings, some people say Panny has slightly better PQ. Those with the Mag/Philips units say it is as good or almost as good as the Panny.

I think about getting another DVD recorder with a digital tuner before they’re all gone. I typically record in the 2hr SP mode with my Pannys and really like the PQ. I like the idea of a hard drive, but I also would like to have the best possible PQ.

From those who have used both machines, is there any real or perceived difference in PQ?
I cna only offer what I have written in the Sticky thread on RECORDED PQ.

"The Philips CODEC (Coder-Decoder) for RECORDING

I seldom use my three 3575's just for watching normal TV... they're RECORDERS and that's what I use them for. I watch live TV on my large-screen LCD HDTVs, which have more-expensive (better) tuners and video processing, filtering and DISPLAY circuitry than my "economical" (cheap) 3575's

In Nov 2007, I posted about the great PQ I was seeing even at longer RECORD modes from my downrezzed digital HD channels and wondered if Philips had developed a "different algorithm" for MPEG-2 encoding or something. Shortly thereafter, my question was answered when I read a magazine article about who's doing what with DVD chips, part of which reads:

"The gap between them [Zoran/ESS and LSI/Philips] could widen further, as LSI Logic...continues to hone its encoding skills, while Philips is adding to its new MPEG-2 codec optimized hardware blocks for running new picture improvement algorithms such as adaptive picture sharpness detection and de-blocking artifacts removal."

The benefits of this new codec show up primarily in RECORDING fast-motion sports and movies, like James Bond flicks on digital HD channels... I've been able to use the longer rec modes, and I've never seen the macroblocking, tiling, stuttering or jagged lines that some report with other DVDRs."

Yea, it's not even a contest as to which looks better... the 2160 by far!

You do have to see it in person to appreciate it's sleek, modern design.

I have an older photo of the 2160 taken from a higher angle. I could post it but it might cause a stir as there is a Thompson surge protector in the foreground. That surge protector is viewed by many as politically incorrect.

I have an older photo of the 2160 taken from a higher angle. I could post it but it might cause a stir as there is a Thompson surge protector in the foreground. That surge protector is viewed by many as politically incorrect.
I tried some flash pics but they had bright spots and didn't look good. Don't think I can get a good shot... I'd like to put it in a couple of help files in the Sticky... may have to attempt later... I put a note, at least, describing what I see.

If you've already got a good shot that does it justice, if you posted it in the Sticky thread, I could easily link to it for those who care what their machine looks like.

Yes - I thought the Panny was noticably better, especially with HD material (I'm talking about mainly from their internal, digital tuners). Much sharper and more detail.

How big is your TV, and what type is it?


My HDTV is an “old” 720p, 42” Sony.

Earlier programs that were recorded with the 6hr speed on an ES20 used to look OK when displayed on a 27” CRT TV. But they don’t look acceptable with the 42” screen.

I don’t want to end up recording & keeping stuff that looks good on 42” and then upgrade to something larger and find out the programs do not look as good as they used to.

I mainly time shift from Comcast using the EZ17’s QAM tuner & DVD-RAM. Most programs are one or two hours in length so this works out just fine. If I decide to keep a program I edit out the commercials on a PC. An HDD recorder is not necessary for editing, but would be nice for increased storage.

Well, I wouldn't expect the Maggy's PQ to be any better. So you'd have to decide if the slight hit in PQ would be worth the HDD.

I think jjeff has said that the EZ-28 has slightly better PQ than the EZ-17 - at least among the ones he's tried.

I sure would expect the Maggy to be better than the Panny on the EP6 or probably even LP when the Maggys set to SP. If the Maggy is like the Philips 3575 I think the 2.5 hr mode is where the resolution drops from full d1 to half d1.
Other than the early dropping of resolution my biggest complaint with the Philips was the contrast ratio problems I had. The darks were just to dark and lost definition on my TV.
Being very picky I'd say the EZ-28's tuner was slightly better than the EZ-17s. The line input recordings were the same. The reliability of the EZ-17/27's were another story, stick with a 28 in that case.

"The gap between them [Zoran/ESS and LSI/Philips] could widen further, as LSI Logic...continues to hone its encoding skills, while Philips is adding to its new MPEG-2 codec optimized hardware blocks for running new picture improvement algorithms such as adaptive picture sharpness detection and de-blocking artifacts removal."


It sounds like the LSI & Philips chips are the ones to beat. But I wonder which one was ahead in 2008.

It sounds like the LSI & Philips chips are the ones to beat. But I wonder which one was ahead in 2008.
The article writer didn't get ionto that, only that both were apparently better than Zoran and ESS in 2008.

I sure would expect the Maggy to be better than the Panny on the EP6 or probably even LP when the Maggys set to SP. If the Maggy is like the Philips 3575 I think the 2.5 hr mode is where the resolution drops from full d1 to half d1.
Other than the early dropping of resolution my biggest complaint with the Philips was the contrast ratio problems I had. The darks were just to dark and lost definition on my TV.
Being very picky I'd say the EZ-28's tuner was slightly better than the EZ-17s. The line input recordings were the same. The reliability of the EZ-17/27's were another story, stick with a 28 in that case.

In the following post I provide photos of typical DMR-EZ17 and DMR-EZ28 tuners and Digital PCBs found in my machines:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15248074#post15248074

After studying these and other photos of my EZ machines I came to the conclusion that the 2007 and 2008 tuners have the same basic part number but may have had minor "running changes" during production as indicated by the last character in the part number.

The main difference between my DMR-EZ17 and DMR-EZ28 models is the Digital PCB. The EZ17 models have a LSI Logic CPU and the EZ28 has a Magnum CPU.

My experience is that my DMR-EZ28 is a more reliable performer than my DMR-EZ17 models.

Assessing picture quality is often difficult due to a number of conditions that may not have anything to do with a particular machine's performance. I have two DMR-EZ17 models that receive their composite video signals split from the single composite output of a Comcast Motorola DTC700 digital cable box. These EZ17s are connected to the AV1 and AV2 composite inputs on my Westinghouse LCD HD "ready" TV. I observed that the EZ17 connected to AV1 always provides a clear sharp picture while the EZ17 connected to AV2 provides a "softer" picture. I swapped the connections between the EZ17s and also connected a Zenith DTT901 to those composite inputs for comparison. I found that whatever signal source is connected to the Westinghouse AV1 input provides a clear sharp picture and whatever signal source is connected to AV2 provides a "soft" picture. Sample recordings of the same program material were made and played on another EZ machine in the next room through a different TV. There was no perceptible picture quality difference between the recordings. The Westinghouse TV's AV1 or AV2 inputs, or perhaps some difference in the cables, accounts for the differences between a sharp clear picture and a "soft" picture. (One of those Westinghouse composite inputs is hard to reach so I have not actually swapped out all the cables.)

With my Philips/Magnavox HDD/DVD machines I have also observed minor differences in picture quality. Due to my setups I am unable to make head-to-head comparisons between these machines. My Philips 3575 was manufactured in April 2007 and "renewed" some time before I purchased it in March 2008. My Magnavox 2080 was manufactured in July 2007 and "refurbished" some time before I purchased it in December 2008. My Magnavox 2160 was manufactured in August 2008 and purchased new in December 2008.