Hey guys, Im looking to get a UPS to Handle my projector and possibly my receiver and or PS3. Reason is somewhat frequent power blips and I would just like to have enough time to soft power off in the event of a power outage. Looking to not spend a lot of money....

For 100 bucks, what do you guys think of this:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=770423&CatId=234

You need to buy a UPS that has 2 to 3 times the watts capacity of the total watts that it will need to support. I would buy one UPS for the PJ and one for your other equipment. I have a 1200VA unit that provides 900 watts for my UPS and a 1000VA unit that provides 750 watts for my sat receiver and external drives attached to it.

What you linked to is fine for your PJ but I would not put your receiver on it also.

Ok thanks for the info.

One night I had a few beers and made myself a type of "power inlet" that is intended to be used to feed UPS/Surge protected power to the outlet above where the projector will be hung.(New room build almost done)....

..refer to pics for what i did. Not a bad job considering alcohol was involved...LOL

That being said I suppose I can just feed the projector power through this via a surge strip for the time being. Im anxious to get the PJ mounted and powered on.....I guess I can save a little more $$$ for a UPS that will handle most things.

I have been thinking about adding the UPS for a another reason also, to clean up the power before it gets to the components and PJ?

So for that reason I have been wanting one that not only provides back up power in case of power failure giving me time to shut everything down properly but also adds protection to power fluctuations for every day use.

Something along these (http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=S10) lines

http://www.apcmedia.com/resource/images/500/Front_Left/B94BE0EE-5056-9170-D36CA512E56E1C7E_pr.jpghttp://www.apcmedia.com/resource/images/500/Back/B94F3A92-5056-9170-D3D342F4001C717F_pr.jpg

They retail for double the price you have in your first link but I am sure there is a better deal out there some where.

Plus they wouldn't look that bad on the rack.

Nice find! that would be my ultimate goal as well. Im located in Barrie, i wonder where and how much we could find these for in the GTA?

I'm looking now. :)

This one (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020109&cid=PS.932) at Canada Computers looks interesting.

They have a couple there but they are pretty pricey. But probably worth every penny considering what all of the components and PJ bulb cost.

Here (http://cache-www.belkin.com/support/dl/p74699fc-a_ap30800fc10-blk_manual.pdf) is a link to the PDF owners manual for the Belkin unit. It look's nice and simple and has indicators for load as well as the battery level.

For under $200 CAD this may fit the bill quite well.

Yah, i was looking at the Belkin Pure Av line of stuff. Not sure about the quality but I would be more than willing to spend 200-230ish, as long as Im getting fairly decent quality equipment. However I know thats peanuts in the grand scheme of things when dealing with UPS/Power conditioners etc.

Check out factory direct. I was in the barrie store last week and I'm pretty sure they had this belkin model too. I;m gonna look into it more too.

Yah, i was looking at the Belkin Pure Av line of stuff. Not sure about the quality but I would be more than willing to spend 200-230ish...I have lots of UPSes, for all my computers, but I also have two of the Belkin AP30800-10 in my HT--one Silver in front and one Black in back. Very nice, very quiet, if you look hard enough you can get them for ~$150 maybe.

EDIT! Just learned Belkin has exited UPS business! Still good if you can find them; at least, I would expect Belkin to honor in-warranty and equipment protection promises.

Well now that I have looked into the UPS I decided to investigate my power needs :eek:

AVR - 490 watts
PJ - 290 watts
DVR - 31 watts
Xbox 360 - 186 watts :eek:
Wii - 20 watts
BRP - 30 watts

Therefore I need a minimum of 1000 watts protection (AVR, PJ, DVR, Xbox 360 would be max load)! The Belkin I listed above is only 640 watts. hmmmm

So get 3 of these (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020109&cid=PS.932) for $600 or 1 of these (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020110&cid=PS.932) for $850? Whats the big difference besides the display?

Well now that I have looked into the UPS I decided to investigate my power needs :eek:

AVR - 490 watts
PJ - 290 watts
DVR - 31 watts
Xbox 360 - 186 watts :eek:
Wii - 20 watts
BRP - 30 watts

Therefore I need a minimum of 1000 watts protection (AVR, PJ, DVR, Xbox 360 would be max load)! The Belkin I listed above is only 640 watts. hmmmm

So get 3 of these (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020109&cid=PS.932) for $600 or 1 of these (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020110&cid=PS.932) for $850? Whats the big difference besides the display?

I would not put the PJ on the same UPS with the other equipment.

Just got this heads-up in my email. This is very good!

http://store.audioholics.com/product/717/0/apc-av-h15-1-5kva-h-type-power-conditioner---silver

NICE FIND. I want one.....not a UPS though right just surge/power conditioner?

Thanks for posting that!

Correct, the H10 and H15 are not UPS but they are more than surge and filtering, they also have voltage regulation. They regulate to 120 volts +- 5%, 10% , or 15% depending on the setting.

I wouldn't bother with a UPS on your projector unless:
1) you use it all the time (is your primary viewing display--which I hope it isn't)
2) live in an area where there are lots of power outages :-(
Note: I NEVER use my projector during storms (I don't take undue risk)

I wouldn't bother with a UPS on your AMP/receiver; after all, what in your amp is really going to be damaged if you pull the plug?

I USED to have a UPS on my DVR's, but have since ditched that for an (industrial) power filter/conditioner (long story short, it's something I picked up for free made by a company called ONEAC).

In summary, I'm not high on UPS' and finding out their batteries need to be replaced AFTER you lose power (and needed it). However, I DO think it is essential to have some kind of surge protector on everything BUT my video stuff (including the HDTV), which I feed into the power conditioner.

BTW, Crutchfield is having a huge sale on those same APC power "conditioners"

I wouldn't bother with a UPS on your projector unless:
1) you use it all the time (is your primary viewing display--which I hope it isn't)
2) live in an area where there are lots of power outages :-(
Note: I NEVER use my projector during storms (I don't take undue risk)

I wouldn't bother with a UPS on your AMP/receiver; after all, what in your amp is really going to be damaged if you pull the plug?

I USED to have a UPS on my DVR's, but have since ditched that for an (industrial) power filter/conditioner (long story short, it's something I picked up for free made by a company called ONEAC).

In summary, I'm not high on UPS' and finding out their batteries need to be replaced AFTER you lose power (and needed it). However, I DO think it is essential to have some kind of surge protector on everything BUT my video stuff (including the HDTV), which I feed into the power conditioner.

BTW, Crutchfield is having a huge sale on those same APC power "conditioners"

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

However, those of us who would rather not be interrupted by a power glitch right when something important is on will keep using our UPS.

You are also incorrect in stating that the batteries need to be replaced after you lose power. Whoever told you that must sell Monster Cables.

HOWEVER: Surge protectors MUST be replaced after they protect your equipment from a surge.

ps - was thinking a UPS not really for my receiver, but more for my Ps3....ie. A UPS might give me enough time to save a game ;) I will check out crutchfield...I plan on getting a new car stereo probably from them soon, so maybe I'll double up...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

You are also incorrect in stating that the batteries need to be replaced after you lose power. Whoever told you that must sell Monster Cables.



You mis-understood: I didn't say you have to replace the batts after a power outage, but you never seem to know they're bad until AFTER the power goes out and so does your equipment (because the battery in the UPS was DEAD).

No harm done.

You mis-understood: I didn't say you have to replace the batts after a power outage, but you never seem to know they're bad until AFTER the power goes out and so does your equipment (because the battery in the UPS was DEAD).

No harm done.

Sorry, figured that out later.

3 year replacement schedule. The refills are cheaper than a new unit!

I wouldn't bother with a UPS on your projector unless:
1) you use it all the time (is your primary viewing display--which I hope it isn't)
2) live in an area where there are lots of power outages :-(
Note: I NEVER use my projector during storms (I don't take undue risk)


You don't think a UPS on your projector would mitigate the risk of diminishing the value of the bulb life and at worse damaging your projector? My understanding is that most projector bulbs run very hot while operating and need sufficient time to cool prior to the power turning off...

This subject has been discussed many times here. Just search here on 'UPS' for some good threads on the topic.

On the lamp cooling issue, when power is suddenly lost, it mainly centres on how soon after the power outage you can re-strike the lamp. The cooldown cycle of a projector is mainly to get the lamp to a temperature quickly where it is safe to re-strike it. If it doesn't go through a cooling cycle the lamp will take much longer to get to the temperature where it is safe to re-strike it.

Projectors won't let you re-strike during the cooldown sequence for just this reason. If the power is lost briefly, the projector re-boots it's firmware and is (generally) unaware that the lamp is too hot to re-strike, and will let you power up again right away. Which, if you do, stresses the lamp.

As far as the different types of UPS's, the HT certified sine wave regenerative types are the best. However, I've used inexpensive PC type APC UPS's for years with many different projectors without any problems. I live in the country, where brief power outages are a way of life, and have never had an issue with PC type UPS. All of the digital projectors I've owned have gone through many power outages fed by these UPS's, and I've yet to have a lamp expire before it's rated lifetime.

Jonathan

The cooldown cycle of a projector is mainly to get the lamp to a temperature quickly where it is safe to re-strike it. If it doesn't go through a cooling cycle the lamp will take much longer to get to the temperature where it is safe to re-strike it.Sorry but I think you're wrong. The cooldown cycle of a pj is mainly to get the heat out of there, so that it doesn't damage the delicate components e.g. lcds, filters, colorwheels, etc. especially filters that can be blackened or melted. Yes the time delay also involves keeping the lamp from being re-struck immediately (when the lamp is Hot, it's at its most vulnerable relative to burn-out at restrike) but while the lamp can be replaced relatively easily, the filters/lcds cannot.

Laserfan, yes, I believe you are correct regarding the panels and polarizers exposure to heat from an extinguished lamp not being force cooled. My point was more to indicate that the lamp itself doesn't require the cooldown cycle, and that the point of the cooldown cycle, in relation to lamp longevity, is to get it in the temperature range where it's safe to re-strike it as quickly as possible.

I don't advocate killing the power with no cooldown for the reasons you mention. It's just if you have a power interruption, it's not damaging to the lamp as long as you wait until the lamp cools sufficiently before attempting a re-strike.

Jonathan

...if you have a power interruption, it's not damaging to the lamp as long as you wait until the lamp cools sufficiently before attempting a re-strike.I agree with this. But IMO the main reason & benefit for getting a UPS is not to extend lamp life, as (too) many here seem to think and promote, but rather to protect delicate plastics.

I guess my question should have been if a UPS is necessary to protect the life of the projector whether it's the bulb or the internal parts. Bottom line is it looks as if yes it is a good idea to have it as power backup. Now the next question is will the cheaper computer based UPS work just as well as the more expensive HT based UPS? I would be using it only for the PJ and not the other A/V components...Right now it is hooked up to an inexpensive Monster Power PowerCenter PRO 200 (basically a surge protector).

...will the cheaper computer based UPS work just as well as the more expensive HT based UPS?I would say it's highly likely, inasmuch as when a PF occurs and you are sitting there at the time, your immediate need is just to turn-off the pj and let it cool down (make sure you tell your family to do this if you're not there). So you're turning the pj OFF and not WATCHING IT thru the power failure, where the output of the UPS is possibly not as clean as the high-end UPS and you get visual anomalies e.g. waviness or lines or some such. All it really needs to do is let you execute the shutdown sequence, then run the fan for a few minutes. No need for a perfect sine wave to do that!

Make sure when you get a UPS that you test it by simulating a power failure, making sure it gives you a few minutes at least to find a flashlight and stumble-about or whatever else you might do in a real PF situation. ;)

I agree with this. But IMO the main reason & benefit for getting a UPS is not to extend lamp life, as (too) many here seem to think and promote, but rather to protect delicate plastics.


But my projector, the Panny 900, doesn't run its fan to protect the plastics. The fan generally only runs after I turn off the projector - after the bulb turns off. All the heat from that bulb is rattling around inside, cooking those plastics, until I turn it off - then the projector blows out the heat. The purpose of that fan seems to be only to prepare the bulb for a new strike as soon as possible. So, a UPS probably does not extend the life of the plastics, and extends the life of the bulb only if you strike the bulb too soon after a power outage, as jrwhite explained.

Hmmm, I don't have the Panny, but are you SURE about this, that it doesn't run at all until shutdown? My Mits fan runs silently (at a very low/slow speed) until I turn it off, at which point it goes to full speed, and only then is it noticeable.

I'm pretty sure Laserfan is correct, there must be active cooling during operation. The problem with HT projectors is the quest for quiet often impacts on the longevity of the polarizers and the electronics.

One of the creiteria I use when picking projectors is the cooling design. Cine4home does a great analysis of this in their reviews. I'd rather live with a few db's more noise in exchange for better cooling.

Jonathan

Hmmm, I don't have the Panny, but are you SURE about this, that it doesn't run at all until shutdown? My Mits fan runs silently (at a very low/slow speed) until I turn it off, at which point it goes to full speed, and only then is it noticeable.

Nope, I'm not sure about it. I'll listen closely tonight & report back.

I see now I was operating from three assumptions: 1) The concern about the UPS was to get that blast of fan upon shutdown that we both describe. 2) If the lamp isn't lit, it isn't radiating significant heat. & 3) If I can't hear the fan, it isn't doing anything (much). None of those assumptions are good, but they may still have limited validity, with qualification.

I sure do agree with that post re the importance of ongoing cooling to maintain the plastics. I see that issue most relevant during operation with the lamp lit, but less relevant during a power outage - still relevant even then.

Hi Trick,

You don't have to listen, just put your hand in front of the exhaust port of the projector while it's operating.

This thread has kinda been hijacked to a cooling debate, but, I think this is relevant to the OP's original question.

I've posted many times about how I think cooling is one of the most important aspects of a projector, and how it's been compromised by modern HT pj's in the quest for a more silent unit. If you go back through the polarizer failure posts, there are very few for Epsons, which are relatively loud, compared to Sanyo's and Panasonics, which are somewhat quieter. Now, it's true that Panasonic and Sanyo have probably sold more HT projectors than Epson, but still the failure postings are disproportionate.

My original post here, the one that Laserfan called me out on, was meant to state that the main reason there is a cooldown cycle, with respect to lamp longevity, was to get the lamp to re-strike temperature in a short amount of time. This is why the fans ramp to full speed on shutdown.

A hot, recently extinguished lamp, can potentially do damage to the other components. But, if this is only an occasional incident I don't think that too much damage will be caused, especially compared to inadequate cooling while the unit is operating.

As I replied to Laserfan, I'd never recommend a hard shutdown to anyone as a normal operating procedure.

Back to the UPS topic. Personally, as I live in the Country where short power losses are common, I use a cheap UPS to avoid having to abort watching a TV show because of a 2 second power bump. Out here, the power either goes off for a few seconds to 2 minutes, or, if it goes beyond that it's off for several hours. I have every component in the chain on multiple UPS's. If the power fails, the UPS starts to howl. If that goes on for more than 2 minutes, I know we're in for a long one, and I shutdown the system. If the power comes back within 2 minutes, we've had no viewing interruption and life goes on as normal.

I think that we're all agreeing here.

I think a significant improvement in firmware design on PJ's would be to read the internal temp sensors when the firmware first boots, and if the lamp / enclosure is hot, start a cooldown cycle and prevent a re-strike until it's complete.

Jonathan

I've posted many times about how I think cooling is one of the most important aspects of a projector, and how it's been compromised by modern HT pj's in the quest for a more silent unit. If you go back through the polarizer failure posts, there are very few for Epsons, which are relatively loud, compared to Sanyo's and Panasonics, which are somewhat quieter. Now, it's true that Panasonic and Sanyo have probably sold more HT projectors than Epson, but still the failure postings are disproportionate.I haven't followed such posts as closely as you, but I've noticed also that it appears that some pjs have (for example) glass polarizing filters, while others are some type of plastic material. Might have something then to do with whether a mfr blows harder or not.

I think a significant improvement in firmware design on PJ's would be to read the internal temp sensors when the firmware first boots, and if the lamp / enclosure is hot, start a cooldown cycle and prevent a re-strike until it's complete.Makes sense. I think tho that some mfrs have different ways to deal with this. For example, I'm pretty sure that if my Sony LCD RPTV (which requires a cooldown period as well) has its power removed, and then re-applied, that it still fails to start for some minutes, as if there IS a sensor, or a capacitor-based timer, built-in to prevent a re-strike when hot. Not at all sure about my Mits front pj (and I'm not about to stress-test it)! ;)

BTW I too live in the Country and experience much the same in the way of power failures as you. We also have a lot of "dirty power" situations e.g. brown-outs, so I have surge protectors on every single electronic device, and UPSes on my projectors, and (of course) my Tivos and PCs i.e. any electronics with spinning hard drives.

Can't be too careful. Only problem is w/all this shunt-to-ground surge protection, I can't use anything that communicates via powerline carrier--it all looks like noise to my suppressors and comms are unreliable... :o

Yep. And sure enough, there is air blowing out the Panny 900 during operation and a soft whine of the fan is heard up close.

So, a UPS will provide several advantages with power outages, including helping to prevent degradation of plastic and other components from a temperature spike inside, quicker safe re-strike of the bulb, & maintaining operation without interruption in brief power outages. The more frequent the power outages, the more a UPS is desirable.

I was interested to read that the shape of the wave provided by the UPS may not make too much difference to the projector. Some UPS models can be less expensive than others that way. Any more discussion re particular UPS's, cost, & the waveforms provided?

Hi Trick,

There were quite a few UPS debates in the >3K forums some time ago. The 'AV' class UPS's have filtered sine wave outputs. The 'PC' grade UPS's usually have ( in my experience ) an unfiltered simulated ( stepped ) sine wave output. I've always used APC, as they're the best bang for the buck up here.

It's possible that other brands / models output square waves, however, a high current 60Hz square wave output would make it difficult to pass FCC testing because of RF harmonics, so, that leads me to believe that they all step the output in one way or another.

The other point of debate is full-regenerative vs power loss switch. With full-regenerative, the supply AC is always feeding the battery, and the output of the UPS is always fed by the inverter output of the battery. That way, during a power loss, there are no 'glitches'. The other, more common, type of UPS's feed the supply input to the output until the power drops, then it switches to the inverter circuit from the battery. This causes a few millisecond 'glitch' on the output. In practical terms, this really doesn't matter that much. The power supply in the AV / PC gear has enough filtering to cope with this. If they didn't, then switched type UPS's wouldn't work well for their intended purpose ( giving you time to save your work and shut down your PC in the event of a power failure )

Back to the AV class vs PC class UPS's. All PC's and most AV gear uses switching power supplies these days. By their nature, switching supplies regenerate the the input power and have heavy filtering on the DC output to clean up switching noise. So, stepped vs. pure sine wave isn't really an issue. High end audio gear, that still use linear power supplies, could be affected by stepped sine input as they're not designed to filter this type of noise.

So, if you have the money to spend, an AV class UPS is the best solution. For the rest of us, in my experience, inexpensive PC class UPS's work fine for projector applications.

Laserfan,

Tell me about it! I have 8 UPS's and countless surge suppressors and filters throughout the house, and about 60 X-10 devices controlled by a dedicated PC. Lots of careful circuit routing to make it work 'tolerably' well. Still have to 'do the hokey poky' on a semi-regular basis when a zone fails.

The other 'joy' of UPS's is when the power fails for more than a few minutes in the middle of the night. All 8 of them start howling. At least this forces me to get up, stumble to our dedicated 'hydro phone' ( with the hydro power loss phone number and our account number printed on it ), so I can report it, and possibly have power again for the morning. ( our Country neighbours greatly and unknowingly benefit from this free service ). Ah, the joys of Country living.

Jonathan

So, a UPS will provide several advantages with power outages, including helping to prevent degradation of plastic and other components from a temperature spike inside, quicker safe re-strike of the bulb, & maintaining operation without interruption in brief power outages. The more frequent the power outages, the more a UPS is desirable.You got it, summarized well.

There were quite a few UPS debates...an AV class UPS is the best solution. For the rest of us, in my experience, inexpensive PC class UPS's work fine for projector applications.FWIW I have Belkin AP30800-10s on each of my LCD pjs (one rear and one front) but both of these have other gear on them. Not available any more, they were the very cheapest of the "AV class" UPSes with AVR technology. But given I'd spent $4K on my rear projector (yrs ago) and $2K on my 1080p front pj (last year) then voltage projection for ~$150 each was the least I could do.

BTW I do recall years ago when UPS systems were truly "uninterruptible power supplies" (as jrwhite calls them "full-regenerative") i.e. the AC you got outta them was constant from a bank of always-charging batteries and an inverter. I lost track of the technology, but somewhere along the line the term UPS got applied to these relatively cheap gizmos we buy that don't really work the same way as the original UPS systems did. I guess mfrs decided that switching of a few nanoseconds wasn't enough of an interruption so they could still call these things "uninterruptible" and get away with it! :p

....My original post here, the one that Laserfan called me out on, was meant to state that the main reason there is a cooldown cycle, with respect to lamp longevity, was to get the lamp to re-strike temperature in a short amount of time. This is why the fans ramp to full speed on shutdown.

A hot, recently extinguished lamp, can potentially do damage to the other components. But, if this is only an occasional incident I don't think that too much damage will be caused, especially compared to inadequate cooling while the unit is operating.

As I replied to Laserfan, I'd never recommend a hard shutdown to anyone as a normal operating procedure.

Just wanted to throw this into the mix: although hard shutdowns are considered by many on this forum to be the absolute worst thing you can do, I'm not so sure that's a valid fear. Matter of fact, the only comment I've ever remember seeing on the topic by someone who is actually in a position to know, is from Infocus engineer Bob Williams (now with Planar), who states a hard shutdown is actually better for the lamp:

"The X1 is designed so you can simply power it off without running the fans. The lamp and the parts around it have no trouble handling the heat. The lamp is actually happier cooling off slowly than quickly (as most really hot things are), and it just means that you need to wait a bit longer before you turn it on again.
2-3 minutes is pretty much all you need to wait. The lamp needs to be cool enough to successfully re-strike. Lamp life will be slightly degraded each time it does not strike properly."
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5161831&&#post5161831

What he says supports what you are saying in your 1st paragraph I quoted (about the the primary purpose of the fans to cool the lamp quickly to restrike temp). There's an additional part of Bob's quote (somewhere) where he says you only really need to do a soft power down (which uses the fans) if you plan to turn the projector back on quickly.

Not directed at you (or anyone individually) - but regarding "delicate plastics" being damaged by a hard shutdown, that's really an assumption that I have my doubts about based on the above quote. Granted, that quote was in reference to a specific projector - designs may vary, but the internal components of a projector are subject to heat for a VERY long period of time while viewing - and are designed accordingly. A brief, (probably small) spike of temperature is probably meaningless. It certainly was with the X1/4805. I routinely did a hard shutdown and never had any issues.

IMO, if you live in an area with stable power, there's no compelling reason to get a UPS. Just get a surge protector. If you have one or two power failures during the year while watching your PJ, no big deal. Who knows, maybe your lamp appreciates the occasional gentle cooldown! :D

Hi JeffKB,

Yes, I remember reading the Bob Williams post back when he originally posted it. However, it's difficult for engineering to model or foresee every problem that could develop with product, especially if the material specifications for a part indicate that everything is within tolerance, and testing indicates that no tolerances are being exceeded.

As far as the statement

"The X1 is designed so you can simply power it off without running the fans. The lamp and the parts around it have no trouble handling the heat"

If you look at the numerous X1 / 4805 'light tunnel' problem posts, it seems to indicate that at least that part couldn't handle normal operational temps. When Bob made the statement that the surrounding components would have no trouble handling the additional heat of a non-cooled shutdown, I'm sure his data indicated that the normal operational heat in the unit wouldn't be a problem for that part, and that an additional 'spike' would be no problem. In reality, that was wrong, as proved by the many failures.

In short, heat is bad.

Jonathan

As far as the statement

"The X1 is designed so you can simply power it off without running the fans. The lamp and the parts around it have no trouble handling the heat"

If you look at the numerous X1 / 4805 'light tunnel' problem posts, it seems to indicate that at least that part couldn't handle normal operational temps. When Bob made the statement that the surrounding components would have no trouble handling the additional heat of a non-cooled shutdown, I'm sure his data indicated that the normal operational heat in the unit wouldn't be a problem for that part, and that an additional 'spike' would be no problem. In reality, that was wrong, as proved by the many failures.

In short, heat is bad.


Hi Jonathan,

Yes, it's true, heat is bad, and it's also true the 'light tunnel' problems you refer to are probably caused by long term exposure to heat, but I think it's just that - long term exposure to heat. There's been no correlation to hard shutdowns and that problem. It's just an example of a part failing over time, but it really doesn't show anything in regard to what negative effect (if any) a hard shutdown has.

I have no direct knowledge of how much of a temperature spike occurs after a hard shutdown, or how long it lasts. I've never seen anyone post any hard facts about this info - about any projector. Without that, we're all just guessing at the effect it has. Is it 10 degrees? 2 degrees? Does it last 5 seconds? One minute? Don't know. Does anyone know? It would be interesting to find out. I threw out the Bob Williams post as a possible alternate take on the subject.

Does the spike mean the internal components are subject to a higher temperature for a period of time? Seems logical. The question is, does that really impact their lifespan in a meaningful way? Even more, does it really impact their lifespan if it happens once or twice a year due to a power failure?

Ceiling mounting causes more heat stress than table mounting. Using a projector in a 80 degree room causes more heat stress than using a projector in a cool basement, or air conditioned room. Yet people mount their projector on the ceiling and don't automatically condemn themselves to premature failure. Same with those in hotter rooms. My point is that in the greater scheme of things with heat stress and a projector, an occasional hard shutdown is a blip. Nothing. And I'm not so certain that isn't the case for frequent hard shutdowns either. It's the hundreds and thousands of hours of high temp operation that really are the culprit.

Again, I'm not saying a UPS is a waste of money if you live in an area where there are frequent brown outs. I'm just saying it's not something I would personally bother with if you only occasionally have power failures. Just my opinion. :)

I've never seen anyone post any hard facts about this info - about any projector. Without that, we're all just guessing at the effect it has.No, apart from the "hard facts" you seek with engineering data and statistics and predictions et. al. which yes do NOT exist, there is something called "experience" and another called "common sense" (tempered by technical expertise). These last indicate that heat damages internal components, and there are plenty of posts and pictures here at AVS to demonstrate the negative impact of heat. It is true that an occasional hard-shutdown here and there will not likely cause immediate, noticeable damage to internal components, but just like power surges here & there over time weaken internal components and destroy electronics, the effects of heat are undeniably detrimental to the long-term health of [most every] residential projector design.

Maybe you don't care if your PJ only lasts a few years and then fails or starts to make lousy pictures, but most of the rest of us like to take good care of our expensive equipment, and proper cooling and power protection are important to that. Just my opinion. ;)

Maybe you don't care if your PJ only lasts a few years and then fails or starts to make lousy pictures, but most of the rest of us like to take good care of our expensive equipment, and proper cooling and power protection are important to that. Just my opinion. ;)
Hi Laserfan,

No need to get overly emotional or defensive about your choices. Just trying to have a discussion related to the matter stemming from a comment made by a projector engineer. If the above statement is your takeaway from reading my posts, I don’t think you’ve been reading very carefully. ;)

I have no direct knowledge of how much of a temperature spike occurs after a hard shutdown, or how long it lasts. I've never seen anyone post any hard facts about this info - about any projector. Without that, we're all just guessing at the effect it has. Is it 10 degrees? 2 degrees? Does it last 5 seconds? One minute? Don't know. Does anyone know? It would be interesting to find out. I threw out the Bob Williams post as a possible alternate take on the subject.



I've been getting interested in this question and just might put our remote displaying meat thermometer inside my Panny 900 case this weekend. But maybe not. Somebody ought to. If I do you can be sure I'll report the temps in this thread and might even start a thread under a new title. Oh boy.