Genelec is in MA? What models do they have on display there?

I think they have pretty much whatever you want to hear. It is the US HQ for both the pro and home theater divisions.

I could not help but think that they will next come with a Grand Grand Grand Exquisite that has now Diamond woofers, 3dB more output and cost 1.5 times more... I sincerely can understand Coldmachine comment on "Audiophiles" being seen as "Gullible Douchebags"

Nah, it will be the Grand Grand Exqusite Mk2 SE LTD Signature.

Wait, is he serious? :eek:

I don't see the fascination with diamond elements. Sound more like "diamond are exclusive" and "hard as hell", well why not market speakers with that instead of the soundquality.

In the price stratosphere it's not the product anymore, but to sell an idea or a certain feeling. And it's to have and own things others don't. This we should not question at all. It's human nature and only food for endless discussions. But when somebody comes around and tells he has one of these babies in a modern living room with the poorest accoustics and beleaves he's got the best system in the world, because the price tag implies this to him, then it's just fair to say, it's not....not by far.

Personally I take 30K for speakers and the other 230K for an optimized room, with 0,3 sec in decay also as much as possible down below 80Hz :D

I could not help but think that they will next come with a Grand Grand Grand Exquisite that has now Diamond woofers, 3dB more output and cost 1.5 times more... I sincerely can understand Coldmachine comment on "Audiophiles" being seen as "Gullible Douchebags"

At least in this case, the extra money spent presumably has some tangible result in for form of higher power-handling, at least for the upgraded drivers. Too often, the "Gullible Douchebags" spend money on things that may not have any true performance benefit whatsoever.

OT, here is a little video about people's presumption that paying more means getting something in return:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPAjUvvnIc&feature=related
...drag the slider to about the 5 minute mark to see an interesting test

http://www.montanaloudspeakers.com/

What about there speakers they said to sound great and there not 200k.

I don't see the fascination with diamond elements. Sound more like "diamond are exclusive" and "hard as hell", well why not market speakers with that instead of the soundquality.

Well, diamond doesn't ring very much. I'm all for vapor deposited carbon, which is really what it is, but not as a marketing thing. There's no reason that the cones should cost as much as claimed.

One of the things that really drives me nuts is cones with 'high tensile strength'. Well, low tensile strength is kinda what gives cones some self damping. High tensile strength, such as a rope has, isn't terribly useful. If anything, it forces to the cone to undulate more. Rigidity and/or self-damping are much more important.

Now, if someone could make a diamond aerogel, that would be the shiite............

http://www.montanaloudspeakers.com/

What about there speakers they said to sound great and there not 200k.

$200k? Try closer to $400k on the Grand Grand's

Couldn't they have come up with a better adjective than Grand x 2? If someone says it in French, you'd better duck to avoid the drenching.

At least in this case, the extra money spent presumably has some tangible result in for form of higher power-handling, at least for the upgraded drivers. Too often, the "Gullible Douchebags" spend money on things that may not have any true performance benefit whatsoever.


"The internal wiring will be on a level never used before."

Now I know it'll be worth all the additional costs :eek:

Made out of something unique, perhaps gold melted and drawn into wire from the jewelry of former, now bankrupt clients?

Couldn't they have come up with a better adjective than Grand x 2? If someone says it in French, you'd better duck to avoid the drenching.

LOL, if you like that just wait for the next version, and don't forget your rain coat! And bring a PR/Marketing firm!

"The internal wiring will be on a level never used before."

Now I know it'll be worth all the additional costs :eek:

Made out of something unique, perhaps gold melted and drawn into wire from the jewelry of former, now bankrupt clients?

Bigbrother, they already were using gold/silver internal wiring: http://www.kharma.com/cables/kharma_enigma_signature_introduction.php
:D

Bigbrother, they already were using gold/silver internal wiring: http://www.kharma.com/cables/kharma_enigma_signature_introduction.php

That's the old stuff, we're looking for something on a whole nother level.

$200k? Try closer to $400k on the Grand Grand's

:D One has to wonder ...

C'mon Frantz, you know you want 7 of these to complete the getup!

C'mon Frantz, you know you want 7 of these to complete the getup!

:D

Not a Chance!

I had the chance to listen to Kharma Exquisite Mini during the weekend, and that was not a fun experience. Thin sounding, bad focus and just...not good, IMO.

I had the chance to listen to Kharma Exquisite Mini during the weekend, and that was not a fun experience. Thin sounding, bad focus and just...not good, IMO.

But, but..... they say this....... "The Kharma Mini Exquisite is a very energetic speaker." :)

But, but..... they say this....... "The Kharma Mini Exquisite is a very energetic speaker." :)

If I put it on my treadmill will it lost weight for me?

I had the chance to listen to Kharma Exquisite Mini during the weekend, and that was not a fun experience. Thin sounding, bad focus and just...not good, IMO.

C'mon, didn't you happen to notice the cryogenically treated ceramic cable lifters?

C'mon, didn't you happen to notice the cryogenically treated ceramic cable lifters?

They didn't have them in the system, that's why it sounded so bad ;)

I had the chance to listen to Kharma Exquisite Mini during the weekend, and that was not a fun experience. Thin sounding, bad focus and just...not good, IMO.
How do they measure?

http://www.montanaloudspeakers.com/

What about there speakers they said to sound great and there not 200k.
Any speaker company that advertises that it uses Monster cable for its internal wiring is suspect.

Any speaker company that advertises that it uses Monster cable for its internal wiring is suspect.

Why would that be? A little marketing, perhaps, but a lot of speaker engineers would tell you there's absolutely no use in putting anything but regular speaker wire in there. What's really suspect is using very expensive wire.

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_33/26180000-26189999/640x480/26182087.jpg?0

What a setup, very interesting. :eek:

NIN, can you tell us what the components in this system are? Is this the system you heard?

Well, speakers are clearly too far apart for a normal listening position, especially considering the side wall proximity. There's your bad focus right there.

What a setup, very interesting. :eek:

NIN, can you tell us what the components in this system are? Is this the system you heard?



Yes, this is the system I heard. Continium Criterium, Dynavector XV-1S, and Karan electronics.

Why would that be? A little marketing, perhaps, but a lot of speaker engineers would tell you there's absolutely no use in putting anything but regular speaker wire in there. What's really suspect is using very expensive wire.
What is the target audience for a speaker company advertising that it uses Monster cable for its internal wiring - the same as the target audience for Monster cable?

I do not care for most of the gear in that pic. OTOH, the vinyl in that pic, David Gilmour, On An Island, is wonderful.

I agree Ron, that Album is fantastic and should sound amazing on these Kharmas.

This nincompoop has set them up completely wrong and should have his audiophool license revoked. Any noob knows that you should never place ANYTHING between your speakers, much less 2 racks which are even taller than the speakers, or it will absolutely kill and defuse your imaging. I'm sickened by the setup as shown here, a waste of money IMO lack of attention to setup. Not familiar with that gear.

What is the target audience for a speaker company advertising that it uses Monster cable for its internal wiring - the same as the target audience for Monster cable?

Mebbe, but the market for Monster Cable is 10-100 times larger than, say, Nordost or Kimber.

This nincompoop has set them up completely wrong and should have his audiophool license revoked. Any noob knows that you should never place ANYTHING between your speakers, much less 2 racks which are even taller than the speakers, or it will absolutely kill and defuse your imaging. I'm sickened by the setup as shown here, a waste of money IMO lack of attention to setup. Not familiar with that gear.


I don't think it made any real different to the sound. It was really thin and not good, IMO.
Btw, I also have a high rack between my speakers, but I have fantastic focus. I will try to compare when get my equipment away from my speakers. :)

NIN

Being very familiar with the Kharmas and their careful setup, moving them out even a few feet in front of the equipment rack would be very beneficial to allow them to image correctly. That is the major strength of these speakers is to disappear completely. Moving them out 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into the room is even better. Reference my 3.2 setup pics posted above. I cannot imagine a dealer positioning them this way, they should be tarred and feathered, or at least lose their dealer franchise. A joke.

Mebbe, but the market for Monster Cable is 10-100 times larger than, say, Nordost or Kimber.
So is the market for zip cord.

NIN

Being very familiar with the Kharmas and their careful setup, moving them out even a few feet in front of the equipment rack would be very beneficial to allow them to image correctly. That is the major strength of these speakers is to disappear completely. Moving them out 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into the room is even better. Reference my 3.2 setup pics posted above. I cannot imagine a dealer positioning them this way, they should be tarred and feathered, or at least lose their dealer franchise. A joke.


Yes, but probably that had nothing to do with the thin sound.

Maybe, but they have no chance with this setup. This thinness could be caused by diffusion of the imaging caused by the racks or perhaps something else. Did you double check to make sure the speaker cables were wired with correct polarity?

Yes, but probably that had nothing to do with the thin sound.
Can you elaborate on exactly what you mean by thin sound? What magnitude of aberration at what frequency response range would account for thin sound?

Personally i could not care less if a product is marketed as having monster inside.

If anything it tells you that it is well constructed wire. for all monsters hyperbole, they make good solid products. as most speakers do not tell us what is inside (nor do we really care) this is at least an honest statement that tells us that it is not zipcord inside.

So is the market for zip cord.

Are you saying that a Cadillac or Acura is a crappy car because they advertise Bose sound?

Are you saying that a Cadillac or Acura is a crappy car because they advertise Bose sound?
I would say that anyone that thought Cadillac or Acura is a great car because it had a Bose sound system would be out of their mind.

If you made some speakers in your garage, then ran down to Home Depot and picked up some Monster Cable (yes, they carry it) for the internal wiring, and then marketed the speakers on the basis that they used Monster cable, then I would say you were not simply stating a fact but were attempting to deceive me into believing they were great speakers because they used Monster cable, and I would be suspicious of the rest of your claims. But that's just me. Maybe you think that Montana speakers are great speakers because they use Monster cable for their internal wiring. If so, Montana's marketing department has you square in their sights.

Maybe you think that Montana speakers are great speakers because they use Monster cable for their internal wiring. If so, Montana's marketing department has you square in their sights.

Maybe their not trying to do anything by publishing what the wire is, other then staving off a slew of phone calls by people that keep asking 'what wire are you using inside the speaker I'm interested in?"!

Or maybe they just want you to know upfront, that their not wasting a ton of cash by putting Transparent cable or some other exotic cable of silver or gold ala Kharma.

Truthfully I think they're simply saying, Hey, this is Montana, we're down to earth folks so we use decent wire and it'll get the job done fine, don't worry about it. :rolleyes:

Never heard them myself but have been told their drivers were more industructable then the drivers in the Aerial Acoustics, that was one mans opinion and practically my sum knowledge of these speakers. And they ain't exactly ugly either. Wouldn't mind giving em a shot if I had the oppertunity. :)
I wouldn't expect a Grand Exquisite experiance though. Of course they could upgrade that wire and then...who knows what the experiance might be :D

The diamond tweeter transport-guard isn't even removed!:eek: The top-end is going to sound significantly lowered compared to what this speaker is capable of.

The speakers also appear to be too close to the back-wall (proximity to the side walls are a little difficult to tell in this picture).

If the room is as big as it appears to be (based on how far apart the speakers are and the very little toe-in), then these Mini's are going to sound very light around the bass indeed... perhaps explains the proximity to the back-wall, to try and gain some bass reinforcement off the back port.

In any case, do these folk even know anything about Kharma speakers?:confused:


http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_33/26180000-26189999/640x480/26182087.jpg?0

They could be advertising Monster Cable because Monster Cable supplies the cable free to them in tade for mentioning that they use it. The truth is, none of us know for sure exactly why they advertise it, and speculating is sort of pointless...

The amusing part is the extrapolation.. If their marketing is lacking then so should the speaker.. Brilliant!

The amusing part is the extrapolation.. If their marketing is lacking then so should the speaker.. Brilliant!
I didn't say their speakers was crappy or lacking. That was your and Alimentall's brilliant extrapolation. I said if they are advertising their speakers based on Monster internal wiring, then I would be suspect of the rest of their claims. If you feel otherwise, you need not be.

Maybe, but they have no chance with this setup. This thinness could be caused by diffusion of the imaging caused by the racks or perhaps something else. Did you double check to make sure the speaker cables were wired with correct polarity?


No, but I talked to some friends and they said the same thing and they have heard if before.

Cineramax,

There seems to be a bigger brother to the Dynaudio M4+:

Dynaudio/Munro M5
http://www.proaudiodesign.com/pimages/large/201061.jpg

Capable of 130dB but at exceptionally low levels of distortion, this system was designed for the Wu Tang Clan in New York City. The mid-high array is radiused to minimize phase errors and comb filtering at the monitoring position.
http://www.proaudiodesign.com/productinfo.php?ItemID=201061

I am somewhat surprised by the price; usually Dynaudio Professional speakers are much more expensive..Is that a Dynaudio speaker or a design using Dynaudio drivers?

I am somewhat surprised by the price; usually Dynaudio Professional speakers are much more expensive..Is that a Dynaudio speaker or a design using Dynaudio drivers?

I don't know for sure that it is a Dynaudio speaker but I suspect it is because it is presented in the same way on that retailer's website as other clearly Dynaudio speakers. As far as the price, I suspect that is for a single passive unit and without a crossover. By way of comparison, the 5-driver Dynaudio M3 lists for about $4500 each in a passive crossover-less version. So $11,300 for a 10-driver M5 doesn't seem out of line to me, if passive and without crossover.

Just an example of how the pro gear often presents good value as compared to consumer gear, despite what certain consumer dealers (namely, Alimentall) might claim.

Syswei is correct, bot only are these without crossover but without the required amplification.

Andy Munro (http://munro.co.uk/Monitors/M5.htm) makes the larger Dynaudio on steroids units.

These are ideal loudspeakers for a Tact/Boz megachannel extravaganza.:)

What I would need is a rearengement in D'appolito fashion, some under the screen center channels with the tweeters up top and shallow cabinet surrongs also d'appolito.

Syswei is correct, bot only are these without crossover but without the required amplification.

Andy Munro (http://munro.co.uk/Monitors/M5.htm) makes the larger Dynaudio on steroids units.

These are ideal loudspeakers for a Tact/Boz megachannel extravaganza.:)

What I would need is a rearengement in D'appolito fashion, some under the screen center channels with the tweeters up top and shallow cabinet surrongs also d'appolito.

I imagine they could do it. Also listed is an "M6" custom main monitor, no details given, http://www.proaudiodesign.com/searchresults.php?Mfg=Dynaudio%2FMunro&advsearch=1 ...$13k each so possibly the same driver complement as the M5.

Coldmachine has been playing with a pair of M4+, maybe he can chime in....

hey Frantz how are you if you're still in high end music hit me up man i noticed that you're in haiti and i'm haitian live in DR so get in touch with me luckyed4real@yahoo.com
i'm about to buy a MBL system so we can discuss that since you seem to know music.

To borrow the expression...;)

http://www.hifiplaza.co.kr/porc_images/1251277116_p549044771-5.jpg

All of the channels have now been upgraded to diamond midranges and tweeters which puts Kharma on top of any audiophile home theater speaker contender list.

I am requesting full 3D Cad drawings for the whole set from the owner who was very gracious to extending me an invite to the factory to be able to incorporate them into some serious 3d renders for theater coordination drawings.

I just signed up an excellent renderer which in one day did this ( early work in process rough layout):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=172690&stc=1&d=1270999009