When the affiliates stop transmitting the analog signals, will they still broadcast a 4:3 digital signal? For example, when Oprah is being shown in HD, will those with non-HD sets be required to watch a signal that has letterboxing (or, worse, borders on all four sides or a distorted picture) or will there be a 4:3 digital signal ala DirecTV that allows the viewer the choice of which to watch? For that mattter, will DirecTV continue to offer the 4:3 signals?

By the way, can anyone explain why on my conventional sets I sometimes get a distorted picture when on an HD channel while other times I get letterbox and still other times borders on all four sides? Thanks.

unless they have the equipment to record and playbback hd programming oprah, ellen, sienfeld, etc will still be in sd 4:3

unless they have the equipment to record and playbback hd programming oprah, ellen, sienfeld, etc will still be in sd 4:3

If the stations are broadcasting these shows in HD (or for that matter CSI, House, etc. that are broadcast in HD), will the affiliates still broadcast a digital 4:3 picture for those that do not have HD sets?

If the stations are broadcasting these shows in HD (or for that matter CSI, House, etc. that in HD), will the affiliates still broadcast a digital 4:3 picture for those that do not have HD sets?
No. Unless the station has a SD 4:3 sub-channel simulcast of the HD channel (and this is a bad idea), no. In principle, the network and stations should be passing on a AFD code, but who knows how well that will work. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description.

No. Unless the station has a SD 4:3 sub-channel simulcast of the HD channel (and this is a bad idea), no. In principle, the network and stations should be passing on a AFD code, but who knows how well that will work. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description.

So for those that keep their analog sets with a converter box, they will be receiving either distorted pictures, letterboxed pictures, or pictures with borders on all four sides? If so, this should be emphasized to those who plan on just getting a converter box. Perhps that would edge more of a conversion to HDTV for those on the edge.

Most, if not all, converter boxes have aspect controls on them, so you can choose between letterboxed and cropped pictures (as well as some settings that will distort the picture) allowing the viewer to find whichever setting they like the most.

So for those that keep their analog sets with a converter box, they will be receiving either distorted pictures, letterboxed pictures, or pictures with borders on all four sides? If so, this should be emphasized to those who plan on just getting a converter box. Perhps that would edge more of a conversion to HDTV for those on the edge.

In your converter box menu, there's an option called Aspect Ratio. There you can set the output so the picture with bars on the side fill the screen, instead of the small picture with bars on four sides.

I haven't seen a converter box, but I would think the auto setup would have an option about TV screen type.

It won't be broadcast in 4:3, unless you have cable/satellite, because cable/sat will continue broadcasting as it does now. With Digital OTA, it is user defined how the picture appears.

Most converters have a zoom button on the remote that toggles between letterbox, full or cropped.

Dish and Directv typically crop the 16:9 hd signal and downconvert for their SD customers.

In your converter box menu, there's an option called Aspect Ratio. There you can set the output so the picture with bars on the side fill the screen, instead of the small picture with bars on four sides.

I haven't seen a converter box, but I would think the auto setup would have an option about TV screen type.

It won't be broadcast in 4:3, unless you have cable/satellite, because cable/sat will continue broadcasting as it does now. With Digital OTA, it is user defined how the picture appears.

So for most people that still have analog sets, they will probably be receiving distorted pictures because I don't think most of this demographic is going to want to see black bars on their picture.

So for most people that still have analog sets, they will probably be receiving distorted pictures because I don't think most of this demographic is going to want to see black bars on their picture.

It won't be distorted. There are three options: Letterbox(bars on top and bottom :(), Squeeze(distorted picture :(:() and Zoom/Crop(full screen 4:3 picture, no bars, no distortion-BEST choice :D)

If you're using the Crop/Zoom setting, there is no distortion or black bars, just a beautiful 4:3 picture. That's the reason why the networks have moved their bugs on the HD channels, so they will still be visible on 4:3 TVs.

No. Unless the station has a SD 4:3 sub-channel simulcast of the HD channel (and this is a bad idea), no. In principle, the network and stations should be passing on a AFD code, but who knows how well that will work. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description.

In principle != In Reality

It won't be distorted. There are three options: Letterbox(bars on top and bottom :(), Squeeze(distorted picture :(:() and Zoom/Crop(full screen 4:3 picture, no bars, no distortion-BEST choice :D)

And some units, such as the Zenith/Insignia, remember different settings on different channels, so you don't have to hit the aspect ratio button every time you change from one kind of channel to another.

...will DirecTV continue to offer the 4:3 signals?It's up to the local stations, but in nearly all cases, D* will take the 16:9 channel and "center cut" it to 4:3 for distribution to SD customers. They are already doing this.

It's up to the local stations, but in nearly all cases, D* will take the 16:9 channel and "center cut" it to 4:3 for distribution to SD customers. They are already doing this.

Which means that we'll have to live with sports and other television programming that has graphics and composition designed for a 13" analog television for at least another 4-5 years.:(

Football works pretty well when you have the line of scrimmage at about 1/3 of the way from one side of the screen and the secondary at 1/3 from the other side of the screen. Shooting for 4:3 protection usually means that the line of scrimmage is in the dead center of the screen and any coverage of the back field usually is a quick zoom when the ball is thrown.

HDnet's early coverage of baseball, hockey, and the occasional Boise State football game shows just how big of a difference proper composition for a 16:9 screen can make. When you expect that your viewing audience has larger, higher resolution screens you can have distance shots that are closer to the experience of actually sitting in the stands at a live sporting event. With a high resolution, large screen audience you also can use smaller, higher resolution, less obstructive graphics.

Then again, some prefer the Fox Sports style of quick zooms, quick cuts, shaky camera work, and huge, obtrusive computer graphics of Rock 'em, Sock 'em Robots. As for me, I'd rather just watch the damned game.:mad:

It won't be distorted. There are three options: Letterbox(bars on top and bottom :(), Squeeze(distorted picture :(:() and Zoom/Crop(full screen 4:3 picture, no bars, no distortion-BEST choice :D)

If you're using the Crop/Zoom setting, there is no distortion or black bars, just a beautiful 4:3 picture. That's the reason why the networks have moved their bugs on the HD channels, so they will still be visible on 4:3 TVs.

hopefully they will also start doing that for all important parts of the image, putting them in the safe 4:3 zone

when a person or location is identified in text the crop/zoom will chop some off if not positioned correctly.

using an analog set for display does indeed look real nice with a crop/zoom picture.

I find that I enjoy the picture better on my SD set when I select the letterbox option for shows broadcast in HD and full screen (zoom) for shows broadcast in SD. I enjoy seeing the extra width and don't mind the bars at the top and bottom.

I'll probably get an HDTV in November and then I'll probably start complaining about the shows still being broadcast in SD.

Which means that we'll have to live with sports and other television programming that has graphics and composition designed for a 13" analog television for at least another 4-5 years.:(Probably longer.

...some prefer the Fox Sports style of quick zooms, quick cuts, shaky camera work, and huge, obtrusive computer graphics of Rock 'em, Sock 'em RobotsThis, more than anything else, has caused me to watch less and less TV. After a while, the constant obnoxious sound effects, quick zooms/cuts and constant camera motion are just plain annoying. Throw in animated lower screen promos for upcoming shows and some talking heads that won't STFU, and it's enough to make me reach for the remote's OFF switch.

I find that I enjoy the picture better on my SD set when I select the letterbox option for shows broadcast in HD and full screen (zoom) for shows broadcast in SD. I enjoy seeing the extra width and don't mind the bars at the top and bottom.

I'll probably get an HDTV in November and then I'll probably start complaining about the shows still being broadcast in SD.

I don't know why you have zoom in parenthesis. You must have just meant full screen?

It's up to the local stations, but in nearly all cases, D* will take the 16:9 channel and "center cut" it to 4:3 for distribution to SD customers. They are already doing this.

So that is DirecTV altering the picture and not a dedicated feed from the affiliates for network TV or from distributors such as CNN?

So that is DirecTV altering the picture and not a dedicated feed from the affiliates for network TV or from distributors such as CNN?

Affiliates. The transition only affects OTA broadcast TV. Directv isn't "altering" anything. They're passing a downconversion of the digital/HD channel because analog channels will no longer exist OTA in 14 days.

It won't be distorted. There are three options: Letterbox(bars on top and bottom :(), Squeeze(distorted picture :(:() and Zoom/Crop(full screen 4:3 picture, no bars, no distortion-BEST choice :D)


Presumably Squeeze would be useful for the very small number of people with 16:9 SD displays (early 840x480 plasmas for instance?) as it is a 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic output which is the ideal format to feed these displays in?

But as others have stated - the only way of automatically delivering a good picture on 4:3 displays from a 16:9 HD broadcast is to use AFDs on transmission and have receivers that correctly interpret them. The AFDs tell the converter box which portion of the 16:9 HD signal contains "Active" picture elements (or if you like which bits of the picture don't have picture). Thus 16:9 active content can be converted one way (and in multiple ways if you also signal the shoot/protect ratio) and 4:3 active content in another.

We've had AFDs on the UK 16:9 SD platform for about 10 years now - with the BBC using it extensively. It allows 4:3 displays to correctly mirror what the BBC does to SD content on analogue platforms (in fact AFDs are used to create the analogue feeds as well).

The best AFD receivers do the following for 4:3 displays :

1. 16:9 (16F16) broadcast shot 16:9 safe is output as 16:9 letterbox (16L12) (This is mainly movies and some arts stuff)

2. 16:9 (16F16) broadcast shot 14:9 safe is output as 14:9 letterbox (14L12) (This is the vast majority of output - drama, news, comedy, entertainment, documentary)

3. 16:9 (16F16) broadcast shot 4:3 safe is output as 4:3 full-screen (12F12) (Sport only - and a mistake in the original AFD spec means some receivers output this as 14:9 letterbox)

4. 4:3 (12F12) content broadcast pillarboxed in 16:9 frame (12P16) is output as 4:3 full-screen (12F12)

Presumably Squeeze would be useful for the very small number of people with 16:9 SD displays (early 840x480 plasmas for instance?) as it is a 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic output which is the ideal format to feed these displays in?

It's also useful for recording on a DVD recorder or even a VCR. On playback, the image can be stretched by either the player or the display to restore the original 16:9 aspect ratio.

It's also useful for recording on a DVD recorder or even a VCR. On playback, the image can be stretched by either the player or the display to restore the original 16:9 aspect ratio.
Yep - absolutely - and presumably also an older Tivo!

Affiliates. The transition only affects OTA broadcast TV. Directv isn't "altering" anything. They're passing a downconversion of the digital/HD channel because analog channels will no longer exist OTA in 14 days.

So nothing is changed as far as DirecTV is concerned? DirecTV has not been trasmitting analog feeds digitally in the past (e.g., CNN does not have an analog feed that DirecTV has been distributing); it has always been just downcoverting the HD stream?

So nothing is changed as far as DirecTV is concerned? DirecTV has not been trasmitting analog feeds digitally in the past (e.g., CNN does not have an analog feed that DirecTV has been distributing); it has always been just downcoverting the HD stream?

No. Directv is transmitting a SD digital feed of CNN and all other standard definition channels. AFAIK, satellite does not use any analog feeds, as they're an all digital distribution. But they are two different feeds for SD and HD. If you can look at CNN HD vs. regular CNN, you'll notice that the graphic layout is different, especially on election type coverage where the HD channel uses the 16:9 aspect ratio for extra graphics. Think of ESPN HD and the sidebars on SportsCenter.

Only broadcast TV uses a single feed, because the analog feeds of over the air broadcast channels will end on 2/17/09, the new transition date 6/12/09 or another date to be determined by a particular affiliate.

Downconverting HD feeds is a relatively new thing. Before recently, most "cable" channels didn't even have HD simulcasts, so there was nothing to downconvert to begin with. Usually it is the other way, the SD feed is UPconverted for the HD channel, either with sidebars or horizontal stretching(BAD:mad::().

Presumably Squeeze would be useful for the very small number of people with 16:9 SD displays (early 840x480 plasmas for instance?) as it is a 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic output which is the ideal format to feed these displays in?

My HDTV (Pioneer plasma) outputs through composite(video+L+R) a squeezed picture from HD channels. Before I had a cable DVR, I tried this out with OTA HDTV signals on a VCR. It looked like crap, due to the VCR. But I could see something like this working with a generic hard drive recording device(media center computer, older Tivo, DVD-R/RW). Then it would be like an anamorphic widescreen DVD, just "unsquash" the picture for a full screen 16:9.

My HDTV (Pioneer plasma) outputs through composite(video+L+R) a squeezed picture from HD channels. Before I had a cable DVR, I tried this out with OTA HDTV signals on a VCR. It looked like crap, due to the VCR. But I could see something like this working with a generic hard drive recording device(media center computer, older Tivo, DVD-R/RW). Then it would be like an anamorphic widescreen DVD, just "unsquash" the picture for a full screen 16:9.

Yep - though it is helpful if you think about this not as a "squished" picture - just as a 16:9 FHA analogue picture with different angular resolution! That's how SD 16:9 broadcasting works in the UK - though we have near-universal RGB SD interconnects, so no composite or s-video quality loss caused by chroma subcarrier/carrier issues, and allowing most digital OTA/satellite/cable set-top boxes to feed DVD recorders and Tivos with RGB quality.

That said - these days in the UK it is pretty easy to buy a low-cost dual-tuner digital OTA PVR (either standalone or integrated into a DVD Recorder) that correctly copes with the 16:9 FHA format.

Also Vista Media Center TV Pack and Win 7 Media Center has very good support for digital OTA and digital satellite FTA broadcasts with cheap DVB-S/DVB-T tuner cards (I picked up a Pinnacle tuner with dual DVB-T and dual-DVB-S tuners for £30 - around US$50? This allows me to record two simultaneous OTA digital broadcasts and two simultaneous satellite broadcasts in 16:9 FHA - and the two DVB-S tuners also give me BBC HD and ITV HD on satellite)

When the affiliates stop transmitting the analog signals, will they still broadcast a 4:3 digital signal? For example, when Oprah is being shown in HD, will those with non-HD sets be required to watch a signal that has letterboxing (or, worse, borders on all four sides or a distorted picture) or will there be a 4:3 digital signal ala DirecTV that allows the viewer the choice of which to watch? For that mattter, will DirecTV continue to offer the 4:3 signals?

By the way, can anyone explain why on my conventional sets I sometimes get a distorted picture when on an HD channel while other times I get letterbox and still other times borders on all four sides? Thanks.
This is exactly why that Feb. 17th date should've been left alone. Some channels like NBC only have an HD channel for now because they don't see a need to have an SD digital version of that channel yet since their analog station is still available. If you have an SDTV, use the analog station for now. Once DTV conversion occurs and all stations have switched to digital, I'm sure there will be BOTH an SD and HD digital channel available. Some stations refuse to have both SD and HD DTV until their analog stations is shut off.

I'm sure there will be BOTH an SD and HD digital channel available. Some stations refuse to have both SD and HD DTV until their analog stations is shut off.
Really?
How sure?
All stations will provide a multicast/simulcast of 1080i and 480i for non-HD capable viewers??
Are these facts or are you just stating an opinion/assumption?

Once DTV conversion occurs and all stations have switched to digital, I'm sure there will be BOTH an SD and HD digital channel available. Some stations refuse to have both SD and HD DTV until their analog stations is shut off.
No, they won't add a 4:3 sub-channel simulcast of the HD channel. There are a few stations that still do that, but not many. It would be a waste of bandwidth and degrade the HD picture quality. The AFD is supposed to take care of switching between 4:3 framing and 16:9 letterboxing, although I expect it to work as well as 5.1 sound, CC, and station guide info did at the start. And a number of stations still don't have 5.1 sound or get their CC right. But, what else is new? Besides, the simulcast SD sub-channel generates no additional revenue. The push is to use SD sub-channels for stuff like RTN, This TV, where they can charge for commercials.