Hey Guys

I've already posted this in the screen section but most of the posters there have 1080p projectors.

Cos of uncontrolled lighting in my HT room during the day, my VP4001 is not bright enough to produce a 'wowish' picture during the day with the ambient light coming into the room (of course, at night, it's totally another story:)).

I currently have a 120" DIY WilsonArt laminate with gain of 1.2-1.4. After reading much praise for High Power screens (gain of 2.4-2.8 depending on mount), I'm thinking of replacing my screen with the HP one.

From my research, one of the disadvantages of HP screen is the high brightness makes SDE worse and since I already see very minor SDE from my sitting distance (10-12 feet away), I was wondering if I should stay away from HP screens.

Any 720p PJ owners here using HP screens? Any input?

Thanks

You'll be amazed at what a HP screen can do for you . I have used/seen most every retail screen type out there and a few DIY options but none of them compare to the HP . Yes it is sharper/brighter than most screens so you might see a bit more of the pixel grid but the added 'POP' and sharpness should make you happy (I know I luv it as do many others) . There is no way to get the full 2.8 gain from an HP screen , your head would have to be either in the center of the light path or your eyes looking right through the lens ;) . You should have no problem getting around a 2.0 gain unless your projector is well above the screen . Keep the projector within the screen area (if possible) and you'll get more gain benefit . The HP drops off a reasonable amount of brightness at the sides but unless you have seating off to the sides of the screen that is usually not a concern .

Great screen but it is not for everyone (not all installs can benefit from it) .

- Jason

I have a 720 and a 106 inch Da Lite High Power. The projector is floor mounted on a pedestal in the back of the room about 17 feet from the screen. The primary viewing position is on a sofa about 15 feet from the screen, with the viewing height about 18 inches below the projection path. From this position, I'm seeing the full impact of the screen gain.

I can tell you that there is absolutely no screen door effect from this viewing position. In fact, if I move towards the screen, I don't begin to see any SDE until I'm about 5 feet from the screen. I can't imagine you'd have any problem with SDE from any normal viewing distance.

I'm curious where you read that SDE was an issue with this screen. I bought mine about 5 years ago and researched it very thoroughly. I don't recall reading anything about enhanced SDE.

Fragster,

You might have a problem with a Da-lite HP screen if your PJ is ceiling mounted. The HP reflects light back towards the source so the closer your PJ is to eye level the better with the HP. Also, the shorter throw of the 4001 doesn't help for ceiling mount installations and the HP screen.

The best suggestion I can give you is to call Da-lite and ask for a sample. They will send a 1 foot square sample for free. It should be enough to get an idea if the off axis performance will be enough for your situation and seating locations.

The other solution is to look for gain screens that are angular reflective as compared to the HP which is retro-reflective. Also, if your PJ is table mounted it is still not ideal for the HP because it would be below the screen's height but it would be better than ceiling mounted.

Bob

We use a Da-lite gray higher contrast screen with our 720p projector.

Gray is helpful as it reflects almost no light back into the room.

There is a lot unsaid about your viewing room. Are the walls of a darker and non-reflective material? White reflective walls - like gloss or semi-gloss paint - make the reflection and re-reflection of room light a much more significant image degradation.

Ceiling? Same question - it needs to be darker or at least completely flat and non-reflective.

However there is a threshold of room light - specially since you seem to be describing sunlight during daytime hours - that you simply cannot compensate for.

As you know, ALL room light has a bad effect on a projected screen image and the more light the more visible is the effect and if you add to the light white walls and ceiling that are also reflective material or paint and then, worse, use a bright white screen you won't get near a WOW image.

In our experience with our room, we first tried a white standard screen and were surprised that the screen can be the very worst cause of light reflected back into the room so we switched to Da-lite gray and the daytime result was significantly better PLUS gray almost eliminates the visibility of the top/bottom black bars when the PJ scales widescreen movies to its' native 16:9 resolution.

Sounds like you need to do more to darken the room than to try to compensate for too much light.
Best of Luck

i've sent off for some HP samples - i requested 2 12" samples so i could put them in opposing corners when test the brightness.

one thing ive been having a tough time dealing with is the viewing cone. I've seen lot of posts here that have implied that the viewer needs to be within a 15 degree viewing cone although Dalites website says it's a 30 degree cone. When i used the "All Screen Gain" calculator found in another thread i found that if the cone is only 15 degrees then it simply wont work (its actually below what my current screens gain is). But, if the Dalite data is correct then i will end up with a gain of 1.6 even from the worst seat.

Thanks guys

I'm now waiting on the sample from Da-Lite (customer service does seem very responsive and eager to answer questions so thats a goood sign).

I guess I should have attached this in the original post but anyway, here's my layout. I'm going to lower the shelf mount by 2 feet so the PJ will be below the top of the screen. As u can see, most of the sitting would be directly in front of the screen so hopefully, the cone issue is not that bad.

Should I try to get some black velvet and cover up the ceiling too?


PS: This is a old picture when I was finishing my HT room so the walls are much darker than what it appears in this picture.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5192/dsc00730so1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/dsc00730so1.jpg/1/w320.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img26/dsc00730so1.jpg/1/)

And this is where I'm getting the ambient light coming in during the day ...the other end of my game room is open to below and has 2 large openings. The 2 windows on the other side does have BOC inside of them so the windows do cut out direct sunlight but the ambient light coming in from this side is pretty much hard to contain. I could put them curtains here but my wife doesn't want me to do that as she's prefers having the look of open space.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/730/dsc00964os1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/dsc00964os1.jpg/1/w320.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img205/dsc00964os1.jpg/1/)

Fragster,

Lowering your PJ is not a good solution for the 4001. You would have to use the keystoning and I wouldn't recommend it, you are trading one problem for another. After trying the sample if the HP does not provide enough gain at your angle then I would consider a different screen solution. What is your budget for the screen? firehawk or silverstar immediately come to mind. elite's powergain might be a good choice but I don't have any experience with it to comment.

Bob


Bob

Thanks Bob..since I have a 120" screen right now, I'd like to stick to a similar size......I was quoted approx $500 for a HP 119" pulldown from AVS. So I guess $500 max would be my budget for a 119-120" screen.

Do u have any other recommendations (something with high gain, maybe around 1.8 or so).

Thanks again for the responses, everyone.

Thanks Bob..since I have a 120" screen right now, I'd like to stick to a similar size......I was quoted approx $500 for a HP 119" pulldown from AVS. So I guess $500 max would be my budget for a 119-120" screen.

Do u have any other recommendations (something with high gain, maybe around 1.8 or so).

Thanks again for the responses, everyone.

You are getting good advice from BobL. A High Power screen is a wonderful screen, but you have to be able to set it up correctly. I use a 106" HP with my VP-12S4. I have my 12S4 installed on an adjustable height pedestal. You can see pictures of in in my links. Click on downstairs room.

I don't know what the difference in offset is for the 4001 versus the vp8600, but I have my vp8600 installed at 68" from the floor and my 55x129 HP screen is centered 53" off the floor. That is as low as I could install the pj using only lens shift. The gain is substantial and the cone not all that noticeable to me.

My guess is the Elite powergain 1.8 in a fixed screen. It looks like their silver screen in that size is about $500 and the regular black velour about $800. That is the ~retail price. You can probably find them for less, I'd try AVS and see if they carry them. The silver doesnn't look bad because it still has a small black area outlined by the silver frame. But, IMHO I'd prefer all black unless you want the silver frame so people will think it is a flat panel TV.

At 120" I'd avoid a pulldown screen. ALL non-tensoned pulldown screens develop waves and curls eventually. 106" is usually the max I'd recommend in a pulldown for HT because the larger you go the more prominent the waves become. Some materials like matte white and the HP make it more difficult to notice the waves during viewing material where the gray/ high contrast screens make it easier to notice the waves.

For instance I think the Da-lite High Contrast Matte white 1.1 gain does a nice job but I usually recommend keeping sizes 92" or less with that material.

hope this helps.

Bob

Ps. for Jerry. The 4001 doesn't have lens shift like the S4 or 8600. It has to be above the screen for ceiling mount or below it for table mount.

Bummer....I guess at this point, it might be better for me to maybe curtain up that open area and leave the screen/PJ placement as it is.

Well, I do have the sample on the way so I'll try it....it it's too much of a hassle, I'll probably persuade my wife to curtain up my other wall instead.

Thanks again.

Make sure you tension the HP sample for best results , the weight of the samples is not enough to give you the full effect of the material if you just tape it on your existing screen . Build a small wooden frame for a few bucks and tension the sample over it , or you can wrap it around a stiff board ;) .

* You can use Blue painters tape and it will not leave a residue ;) .

- Jason

Your wife may object to curtains but what about a regular faux wood blind that can be paint matched to the wall aswell as paint matching the case to allow it to blend in when not in use? Check Home Depot they are not that expensive.

I should also add to check out the Focupix tensioned pull down or electric screens from www.htdepot.com they seem to be cheaper priced and offer diffent gains.

I should also add to check out the Focupix tensioned pull down or electric screens from www.htdepot.com they seem to be cheaper priced and offer diffent gains.

He is looking at 120" screens.

He is looking at 120" screens.

Which this 2.0 gain electric screen is 120" viewable:

http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_BriteG_16_9_Electric_Motorized_Screen_103_p/fegb169a-120-wh.htm

Which this 2.0 gain electric screen is 120" viewable:

http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_BriteG_16_9_Electric_Motorized_Screen_103_p/fegb169a-120-wh.htm

The only 120" drop down screen that I would ever even consider would be a DaLite High Power. I would be to concerned with any other screen of that size developing waves. An HP of that size will probably develop waves also, but the HP is good about not showing waves when viewing images.

Thanks for the link, B15nut.

Man, I did read the HTdepot thread and it seems most people are happy with that drop-down except one guy that had some severe hot-spotting. I like how that's offers decent gain and is still a angular reflective screen so I don't have to touch my mount/PJ but after FINALLY reading the entire HP screen thread, it seems to offer the best for screen under $500, with of course, if it works in my case.

Still waiting on the sample.....The best I can do in my case is to drop the PJ by one feet so it will still be just below the top of the screen but I'm not sure how much gain I'm getting in that stance.

Still waiting on the sample.....The best I can do in my case is to drop the PJ by one feet so it will still be just below the top of the screen but I'm not sure how much gain I'm getting in that stance.

Fragster,

Someone put together a spreadsheet to answer precisely your question above. Do a key word search for "All Screen Gain Calculator" on this forum.

Brian

Thanks for the link, B15nut.

Man, I did read the HTdepot thread and it seems most people are happy with that drop-down except one guy that had some severe hot-spotting. I like how that's offers decent gain and is still a angular reflective screen so I don't have to touch my mount/PJ but after FINALLY reading the entire HP screen thread, it seems to offer the best for screen under $500, with of course, if it works in my case.

Still waiting on the sample.....The best I can do in my case is to drop the PJ by one feet so it will still be just below the top of the screen but I'm not sure how much gain I'm getting in that stance.

I can't think of his name right now, but there is a guy on here that has a gain calculator for figuring the gain you would receive using an HP screen. You should have come across his posts in the HP thread.

Added:
Look for posts from FLBoy.

this is the thread about the screen gain calculator

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1041345

Randy

Fragster;
Get the sample. (Just got mine.) Mount it on the present screen. View it. I am willing to bet that if you dont drop the projector down to eye level height you may be disappointed. If you can you will be amazed.

From what you are saying I think ambient light control is where you should head.

I use aluminum foil and dark bed sheets. ;) Check with the wife before installation.

Fragster;
Get the sample. (Just got mine.)

What are your initial impressions based on the sample? Since u didn't really post anything else in that reply, I suspect it was not 'workable' in your scenario ;)?

Got my sample today (took DaLite 5 days to get it to me so that's very good).

Initial impression (sorry for the bad pics..these are in auto mode with flash off and free-standing) ....sample (1 sq foot) is mounted towards the bottom half of the screen on the right hand side...

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9408/eyelevelqe5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/eyelevelqe5.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img261/eyelevelqe5.jpg/1/)

Pretty bad huh cos u can't really tell the difference (actually the sample looks worse). Keep in mind I haven't moved my PJ yet..it's still mounted slightly higher than the top of the screen.

For some reason, I decided to stand up on the sofa and OH MY GOD!!!! The HP SAMPLE CAME ALIVE!!!! This **** is taken with me slightly below the mounted PJ...
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4632/onefeetbelowpjdi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/onefeetbelowpjdi7.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img24/onefeetbelowpjdi7.jpg/1/)

And this is with me standing basically right next to the PJ (so all the light is reflected back right here)....
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7779/atpjheightoe2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/atpjheightoe2.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img10/atpjheightoe2.jpg/1/)


So now this weekend, I'm going to take down my mount and see how low I get my PJ to get the optimum effect of the HP sample. Only prob is my PJ doesn't have lenshift and I refrain from using keystone so it may not work for me but I tell ya, if you meet the mount requirements for the HP screen, it's definitely the way to go!!!!!

Later peeps.

Yes, the HP is a great screen to pair with a projector like the 12S4 if you can set it up properly.

I remember making a screen by spraying rustolium aluminum onto gator board and it had those exact same results.....but while it really made the image "pop" in also brought out the weaknesses my projector had at that time such as grayer blacks....I do remember shadow detail was unreal though....
hows your backs in the reflective viewing cone? I do realize my DIY screen was not the same as HP

^ After some further testing last night, the added brightness does kill the black levels a little bit and I realize the cone is VERY narrow....unless I'm sitting in the dead center of the screen, I'm not really benefitting from the HP screen.

I think I'm actually going to pass on this and stick to my DIY which offers better black levels and a constant brightness across the entire sitting distance. The HP screen just has too many requirements to make it a perfect screen. In my case, I tend to sit right next to my HTPC rack so I use the wireless mouse on the sofa arm rest. From that position, I'm well out of the cone and the HP sample looks washed out.

Bummer.

^ After some further testing last night, the added brightness does kill the black levels a little bit and I realize the cone is VERY narrow....unless I'm sitting in the dead center of the screen, I'm not really benefitting from the HP screen.

I think I'm actually going to pass on this and stick to my DIY which offers better black levels and a constant brightness across the entire sitting distance. The HP screen just has too many requirements to make it a perfect screen. In my case, I tend to sit right next to my HTPC rack so I use the wireless mouse on the sofa arm rest. From that position, I'm well out of the cone and the HP sample looks washed out.

Bummer.

What you are viewing is deceptive. The viewing cone is not as small as you think. When you sit three or four feet to the side of the 12" x 12" sample it is just about like sitting three or four feet to the side of your full screen if your whole screen was a high power. I think many people see a sample and think,"wow the viewing cone is tiny.", when it is not what they think it is.

^ Yeah I agree. I have my projector mounted about 4 feet over the couch and the screen is plenty bright, if it was any brighter it would be too much. The HP screen is really terrific, no visible screen texture, extremely bright and clear. It really brings out the best in my projector.

Just wanted to add that I tested samples of the High Power and Cinema Vision against my Graywolf screen. (Sharp XV-Z3000 Projector). Both were noticably brighter, with the cinema vision the brightest at my seating position (~30deg. viewing angle, maybe slightly more). The BIG difference is in screen structure. Graywolf and Cinema Vision show about the same structure, High Power showed none.

Another big difference, ambient light. The graywolf worked the best, by a good margin.

I'd really like to try the High Power at the full screen size, the 8"X8" sample was just a little too difficult to judge for a final decision. In the end, I think I may just stick with the Graywolf and put up with the screen structure (which can be BAD on some pans).

Just wanted to add that I tested samples of the High Power and Cinema Vision against my Graywolf screen. (Sharp XV-Z3000 Projector). Both were noticably brighter, with the cinema vision the brightest at my seating position (~30deg. viewing angle, maybe slightly more). The BIG difference is in screen structure. Graywolf and Cinema Vision show about the same structure, High Power showed none.

Another big difference, ambient light. The graywolf worked the best, by a good margin.

I'd really like to try the High Power at the full screen size, the 8"X8" sample was just a little too difficult to judge for a final decision. In the end, I think I may just stick with the Graywolf and put up with the screen structure (which can be BAD on some pans).

You know, I have read a ton of posts where a poster has gone from some other type of screen to a high power, but I can not recall more than a couple of posts where some one went from a high power to another screen. The high power is a good screen if you want to go big with current projectors.

I used to have an InFocus X1 - a 480 not a 720. It was a bit dim so I ordered a pull down HP screen. Yesterday I got my new Mitsubishi HC1600 a 720.

First of all the HP screen is tremendous product. If you read the projector reviews you will read a lot about one projector that can produce 400 lumens versus another that might produce 450. Replace the screen with an HP and the dimmer one will pump out 1000 lumens without compromising color temperature. This is a difference you can see at once. The reason projectors are hard to sell in box box electronics stores is brightness. They simply look dim next to plasmas or Rear Projectors. The Da-Lite HP solves that problem. My new projector is too bright to watch with the the bulb in Standard mode.

The keystone issue for DLP projectors is a non-issue. It is easy to get a perfectly rectilinear image by tilting the projector and screen. If you can't figure this out, maybe you don't deserve a Home Theater.

The real issue is viewing room seating. Retroflective screens are appropriate for chairs near the projector. If you watch from a sofa this won't work.

My advice - sell the sofa.

The real issue is viewing room seating. Retroflective screens are appropriate for chairs near the projector. If you watch from a sofa this won't work.

My advice - sell the sofa.

I find that the HP is fine for out-of-cone viewing with low lighting or lights out. The HiPower drops to just below 1.0 gain and stays there from about 20 to 90 deg off axis.

Daytime, of course, the best seat in the house is next to the lens.

Jonathan

I used to have an InFocus X1 - a 480 not a 720. It was a bit dim so I ordered a pull down HP screen. Yesterday I got my new Mitsubishi HC1600 a 720.

First of all the HP screen is tremendous product. If you read the projector reviews you will read a lot about one projector that can produce 400 lumens versus another that might produce 450. Replace the screen with an HP and the dimmer one will pump out 1000 lumens without compromising color temperature. This is a difference you can see at once. The reason projectors are hard to sell in box box electronics stores is brightness. They simply look dim next to plasmas or Rear Projectors. The Da-Lite HP solves that problem. My new projector is too bright to watch with the the bulb in Standard mode.

The keystone issue for DLP projectors is a non-issue. It is easy to get a perfectly rectilinear image by tilting the projector and screen. If you can't figure this out, maybe you don't deserve a Home Theater.

The real issue is viewing room seating. Retroflective screens are appropriate for chairs near the projector. If you watch from a sofa this won't work.

My advice - sell the sofa.

That does not make any sense. What is the difference between low shelf mounting behind a row of seats vs low shelf mounting behind a couch? I have a projector mounted behind a couch. Here is a picture with the projector lowered:http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/Downstairs%20room/IMG_2845.jpg
Here is a picture with the projector raised: http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/Downstairs%20room/IMG_2842.jpg
I installed air springs in the tube so that the projector and shelf (weighs 40 pounds) can be raised using two fingers.

I'm suprised I got disagreement on my nostrum - sell the sofa. I remember reading a series of posts by Trig a couple years ago complete with diagrams and test swatches. High gain screens focus the light in a narrow cone which means those sitting off axis get less light. Those sitting at the ends of the sofa (assuming the projector is over the center of the sofa) will get less light. Those sitting near the center of that sofa will get more light.

With a HP screen four individual seats in two rows will each have optimum light. Four seats on a sofa will only be optimum for the center seats.

I'm suprised I got disagreement on my nostrum - sell the sofa. I remember reading a series of posts by Trig a couple years ago complete with diagrams and test swatches. High gain screens focus the light in a narrow cone which means those sitting off axis get less light. Those sitting at the ends of the sofa (assuming the projector is over the center of the sofa) will get less light. Those sitting near the center of that sofa will get more light.

With a HP screen four individual seats in two rows will each have optimum light. Four seats on a sofa will only be optimum for the center seats.

As you can see from my pictures, my projector is centered over my sofa. Do you own an HP? Have you ever seen an HP? I own a 106" HP and I have a couch that seats four. I can't tell a drop off in image brightness no matter where I sit on my couch. The image is bright and punchy even if I sit on the other couch. Viewing a small swatch is not the same thing as viewing a full screen. People place a 12" x 12" sample of HP on their screen. Then they sit four or five feet to the side of it and remark how it is not as bright as when they sit right in front of it. To be able to sit five feet to either side of a 106" (diag.) screen you would need to have a room that is at least 20 feet wide.

I've lived with an HP screen for years. It looks great from both ends of the sofa, as well as the center. It even looks great from totally off axis - I mean WAY off axis, 6 feet to the side of the screen and one foot in front of it (which is where my bathroom is ;) ).
The brightness drops significantly off to the side, but the image is still very even and watchable, and unless you go back and forth to compare, your eyes adjust and it looks plenty bright. No one has ever complained about poor black levels or screen door, either with my old AE900 or my new AE3000. I've read many criticisms of the Hi Power over the years, mostly from people who have never seen one, and never from anyone who has lived with one.
A sample swatch gives you no idea of what it looks like, and is probably worse than useless.

I've lived with an HP screen for years. It looks great from both ends of the sofa, as well as the center. It even looks great from totally off axis - I mean WAY off axis, 6 feet to the side of the screen and one foot in front of it (which is where my bathroom is ;) ).
The brightness drops significantly off to the side, but the image is still very even and watchable, and unless you go back and forth to compare, your eyes adjust and it looks plenty bright. No one has ever complained about poor black levels or screen door, either with my old AE900 or my new AE3000. I've read many criticisms of the Hi Power over the years, mostly from people who have never seen one, and never from anyone who has lived with one.
A sample swatch gives you no idea of what it looks like, and is probably worse than useless.

Good post and it is what I have been trying to tell people. You have people on here telling people not to buy a High Power and they have never even seen a High Power. I have read posts where guys have gone through 3, 4 and 5 different types of screens before trying a High Power and deciding that is the screen for them.

I know of some guys that use a High Power that do not need the 2.8 gain. They set it up so that their projector is near the top of their screen. The gain is reduced, but it still gives them some gain and they still get the benefit of a screen that is less likely to develop waves and a screen that does not show any texture. The 106" HP works great with my 12S4. I would think anybody that wanted to project a 120"+ screen would consider an HP screen if they could set it up properly in their room. It would give them a bright image and probably allow them to use their projector in economy mode. Giving them less noise, heat and longer bulb life.

You're sitting 10-12 feet from a 120" screen :eek:

You're sitting 10-12 feet from a 120" screen :eek:

Try reading the post before commenting. :rolleyes:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/Downstairs%20room/IMG_2842.jpg

That Marantz is screaming "Steal me". Get curtains!!

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/Downstairs%20room/IMG_2842.jpg

That Marantz is screaming "Steal me". Get curtains!!

I live out in the country. Nobody walks by that window other than my family. My wife is a stay at home mother and we have a security system. Also the projector only sticks up in the window when in use. Dog, security system and gun are for anybody that does come around and insurance is for back up.:)
Only one road two miles long into the area that I live and they have to drive right by several houses. Odds are pretty good that the person would be seen coming or going.

The two windows are pretty big, 6'-0" x 12'-6". We do not like what it would look like with curtains.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/Downstairs%20room/P1000506.jpg

Maybe, you have already seen this review, but Just in case, here it is

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773065

^ Yeah......that's exactly how I started on my quest for the HP screen. Only thing is I don't think I can move my VP4001 to the optimal position without using keystone. I've seen what the HP is capable off with the sample (well, whatever I could from that small piece) but it DOES seem the projector has to be mounted in a optimal position to benefit from the tremendous gain (the HP being angular reflective).

The other bad thing would be my VP4001 is surely not the world's quietest PJ and if I mount it beneath the top of the screen and closer to my head, the fan noise would drive me insane.

Though in fairness to the HP, I'm actually going to take down the PJ this weekend and really see if this is possible or not.

Here's a question for u guys...

If I mount the PJ underneath the top of the screen (maybe by one feet) but its still sitting approx 4 feet above my head, would I still benefit from some gain (compared to the 1.2 I get from my current DIY screen)?

Thanks again to everyone for the responses!

^ Yeah......that's exactly how I started on my quest for the HP screen. Only thing is I don't think I can move my VP4001 to the optimal position without using keystone. I've seen what the HP is capable off with the sample (well, whatever I could from that small piece) but it DOES seem the projector has to be mounted in a optimal position to benefit from the tremendous gain (the HP being angular reflective).

The other bad thing would be my VP4001 is surely not the world's quietest PJ and if I mount it beneath the top of the screen and closer to my head, the fan noise would drive me insane.

Though in fairness to the HP, I'm actually going to take down the PJ this weekend and really see if this is possible or not.

Here's a question for u guys...

If I mount the PJ underneath the top of the screen (maybe by one feet) but its still sitting approx 4 feet above my head, would I still benefit from some gain (compared to the 1.2 I get from my current DIY screen)?

Thanks again to everyone for the responses!

Yes. Send a PM to "thegamepimp" he has an HP screen and if I remember correctly he has his Sharp 12000 MK II set just below the top of his screen.

I have an older da-lite retroreflective glass beaded screen that is the mobile version. Picked it up for $5 dollars and boy is it great! I have a 100" High Power coming but it seems da-lite is out of stock? Or something its been on order for over a month. Anyone know of a good place that stocks in Canada?

Yes. Send a PM to "thegamepimp" he has an HP screen and if I remember correctly he has his Sharp 12000 MK II set just below the top of his screen.

Will do. Thanks!!!

Yes my 12k mkII is just within the top of my HP screen which leaves me with around a 2.0 gain (from the 2.8 max) so the benefit is there . Here is the install ...

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/8_05_08_008.jpg


I used to have a projector mounted right up at the ceiling in this same install and the gain benefit was around a 1.4 (still better than my matte white 1.0 da-lite) . So even though the 12k has slightly less D65/6500K lumens than the previous projector I am still looking at a brighter image with the 12k due to mounting position . The previous projector (Mits HC3000u) was mounted about 2' higher than the 12k .

- Jason

Yes my 12k mkII is just within the top of my HP screen which leaves me with around a 2.0 gain (from the 2.8 max) so the benefit is there . Here is the install ...

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/8_05_08_008.jpg


I used to have a projector mounted right up at the ceiling in this same install and the gain benefit was around a 1.4 (still better than my matte white 1.0 da-lite) . So even though the 12k has slightly less D65/6500K lumens than the previous projector I am still looking at a brighter image with the 12k due to mounting position . The previous projector (Mits HC3000u) was mounted about 2' higher than the 12k .

- Jason

Hi Jason. Have not seen any posts from you in a while. I sure am glad a lot of people got rid of their high end 720p projectors. Many people got rid of them because they wanted a larger screen. That and cheap 1080p projectors dropped the bottom out of the market for the high end 720p projectors. A HP screen solves the problem for screen size. Allowed us to get great projectors at great prices. Have you made any changes to your system? I built a sub for my upstairs room. A Shiva-X in a 6.35CF ported box driven by a Nady XA-1100 amp.

People seem to get excited on this forum thread and lose their composure. I have been attacked for stating the obvious - the closer you are to axis of projection with a retroflective screen, the brighter it will be. This can't be controversial.

I said that the center seats on a sofa will be optimum for brightness. That means that the distal seats will be less optimum. I didn't say that that the picture would be garbage at the end of the sofa. Indeed a Da-Lite Hi-Power off axis is still probably brighter than most other screens on axis.

One nasty poster asked if I had ever even seen a HP.

I have had my HP screen for about two years. Before that I conducted a series of little screen experiments. I had a lot of swatches. I painted cardbord with Rost-o-leum. I played with paint formulas. Once I ordered five gallons of retroflective outdoor emergency sign paint. This is the paint used for cross walks. It is filled with glass beads to reflect back automobile head lights. It has a very high "gain" but the glass beads are about the size of the little lumps in tapioca pudding. This paint probably makes good signs but it made a really terrible projection screen - you could see the individual glass beads.

Personally I think brightness is perhaps the most important characteristic of a good projector/screen system. The reviewers are all mad over black level but brightness seems more import to me. I like retroflective.

[QUOTE=mjg100;15805064]What you are viewing is deceptive. The viewing cone is not as small as you think. When you sit three or four feet to the side of the 12" x 12" sample it is just about like sitting three or four feet to the side of your full screen if your whole screen was a high power. I think many people see a sample and think,"wow the viewing cone is tiny.", when it is not what they think it is.[/QUOTE

I agree I have a highpower and you can get 4 people side by side and still get again of 1.8. there is a curve of the gain vs. angle from Tryg on the high power forum.

The reviewers are all mad over black level but brightness seems more import to me. I like retroflective.

I noticed that too with the sample. But the decrease in black levels is not that much but the overall brightness and 'plasma' look u get in return definitely offsets that by a huge margin. I only hope that I can drop down my PJ within reasonable amount from the ceiling and still get a nice rectangle picture without having to use keystone. My VP4001 doesn't have lenshift either so this is my only concern. Come Saturday, I'll find out whether I can fit the HP in my environment or not ...wish me luck:D.

People seem to get excited on this forum thread and lose their composure. I have been attacked for stating the obvious - the closer you are to axis of projection with a retroflective screen, the brighter it will be. This can't be controversial.

I said that the center seats on a sofa will be optimum for brightness. That means that the distal seats will be less optimum. I didn't say that that the picture would be garbage at the end of the sofa. Indeed a Da-Lite Hi-Power off axis is still probably brighter than most other screens on axis.

One nasty poster asked if I had ever even seen a HP.

I have had my HP screen for about two years. Before that I conducted a series of little screen experiments. I had a lot of swatches. I painted cardbord with Rost-o-leum. I played with paint formulas. Once I ordered five gallons of retroflective outdoor emergency sign paint. This is the paint used for cross walks. It is filled with glass beads to reflect back automobile head lights. It has a very high "gain" but the glass beads are about the size of the little lumps in tapioca pudding. This paint probably makes good signs but it made a really terrible projection screen - you could see the individual glass beads.

Personally I think brightness is perhaps the most important characteristic of a good projector/screen system. The reviewers are all mad over black level but brightness seems more import to me. I like retroflective.

My main problem with your post had to do with this remark:

"The real issue is viewing room seating. Retroflective screens are appropriate for chairs near the projector. If you watch from a sofa this won't work.

My advice - sell the sofa."

Basically you are telling people if they own a sofa then an HP will not work for them and that is completely false. It is so false that it sounded like you have never seen an HP screen. There are a huge amount of HT systems here on AVS that use HP screens and couches. Both examples shown in this thread use couches. Often times the unit is on a low shelf and the couch is close to the back wall. Other times I have seen a pedestal placed right behind the couch. Both of these are nearly perfect set-ups for the HP. From your description you would think that the HP is only good for a theater, two seats wide and that is not true.

I have a 90" long couch. That is about the normal size. My viewing distance from a 106" screen is 11'-6". If I sit at either end of the couch I am within a viewing cone of 20 degrees. a Dalite HP screen has a 30 degree viewing angle so there is no huge drop off in brightness. The math proves you wrong. Also please show me where I was nasty in any response to you?

Hi Jason. Have not seen any posts from you in a while. I sure am glad a lot of people got rid of their high end 720p projectors. Many people got rid of them because they wanted a larger screen. That and cheap 1080p projectors dropped the bottom out of the market for the high end 720p projectors. A HP screen solves the problem for screen size. Allowed us to get great projectors at great prices. Have you made any changes to your system? I built a sub for my upstairs room. A Shiva-X in a 6.35CF ported box driven by a Nady XA-1100 amp.

Yep , 1080p marketing did it's job and made for many happy high end 720p PJ owners ;) .

Nothing new in the main HT system recently , we picked up a 50" Panasonic plasma a couple weeks back but that's about it for new electronics additions . The Shiva's are nice subs , I bet it pounds :D .

^ After some further testing last night, the added brightness does kill the black levels

I went from a da-lite hccv(1.1 gain) to a draper m2500(2.0 gain) based on screen samples and it ended up being a big mistake. I was trying to compensate for the weak light output of my marantz vp12s4. The image was obviously brighter but the elevated black levels(as you observed) were intolerable, even in high contrast mode. Watching AvP:Requiem with this setup was straight up painful...the low apl scenes had a hazy glow to them. I ended up selling both the projector and screen.

I really hope your experience is opposite to that of mine and that the benefits of the hp work to your advantage. I look forward to reading your impressions once the screen is installed.