So I think I've narrowed my choices down to either the VTF-2 or the PB12-NSD. Which do you guys think is the better sub? It will be used 95% movies/TV and 5% music/games. I have a 21'x13'x8' room with hardwood floors. And the sub will probably be sitting in the rear of the listening position. So what do you think? I was really considering one of the Outlaw subs because of the sale, but it looks like they are all sold out.

Any thoughts?

Smokey - They are both terrific units. Picking one or the other for you is not going to be easy.

From your place, you could drive to SVS and pick up an NSD, and possibly audition one there.

With my schedule that's really not an option. I guess I just need to make a choice and stick with it.

I have had the VTF-2 MK III, but I recently sold it to a friend. It is an excellent sub and extended down to 14.5 Hz in my room in maximum extension mode. I also liked the maximum output mode for music. Last week I watched The Dark Knight Blu-Ray in my friend's home theater. I continue to be impressed with this subwoofer even though I now have dual av123 MFW-15 subs.

With the current sale on the VTF-2.3, I would rather save the $100 and go with Hsu.

I would love to save $100, but it looks like it's only $50 the regualr price. Which is still a good deal.

I was comparing the HSU to the SVS price.

With its 4th generation driver and a new cylinder, the PC-12 NSD would be my first choice. Don't know if you can accommodate the cylinder.

When you click on Order for the Outlaw LFM-1 EX you will see that Outlaw is taking reservations for the LFM-1 EX at the sale price of $519 delivered. There will be a wait of about 45 days for the EX. I wouldn't let that stop me. The EX is very much like the HSU 3.3 which sells for $730 delivered.

By waiting the 45 days you save yourself about $210 (comparing the EX to the HSU 3.3).

With its 4th generation driver and a new cylinder, the PC-12 NSD would be my first choice. Don't know if you can accommodate the cylinder.

The PB12-NSD now uses the same driver as the PC12-NSD they just haven't updated the site.

Can someone explain some speaker terminology to me please? I'm still a little new to this. On the Outlaw website, it states this about the LFM-1 EX sub, "Now, you can achieve output to 16 Hz in large listening rooms without emptying your wallet."
So why does it only get down to 16 hz in larger rooms? What could I expect in a 21'x13'x8' room?

Can someone explain some speaker terminology to me please? I'm still a little new to this. On the Outlaw website, it states this about the LFM-1 EX sub, "Now, you can achieve output to 16 Hz in large listening rooms without emptying your wallet."
So why does it only get down to 16 hz in larger rooms? What could I expect in a 21'x13'x8' room?

Your room is a medium-to-large sized room. 16 Hz in a room your size at the sale price is a very good deal. Outlaw is trying to convey that the EX is potent enough to deliver useable sound down to 16 Hz in rooms even larger than yours.

Really don't understand your question. If you want extension to 10 Hz just be prepared to spend at least $1,000.

Your room is certainly a "larger" room. 16 Hz in a room your size at the sale price is a very good deal.

Really don't understand your question. If you want extension to 10 Hz just be prepared to spend at least $1,000.

Can you state your question more clearly?

Well the statement says it will go down to 16hz in larger rooms. So with that said, what will it go down to in smaller rooms? Is it saying you must have a large room in order to get down to the lower frequency's? I just don't understand the technicals of speakers I guess.

Well the statement says it will go down to 16hz in larger rooms. So with that said, what will it go down to in smaller rooms? Is it saying you must have a large room in order to get down to the lower frequency's? I just don't understand the technicals of speakers I guess.

The statement that has you puzzled is simply stating that the EX has the extension and output to reproduce 16 Hz in a given (large) room.

Lesser models in the Outlaw line-up can't go as deep or as loud in the same room.

As the subs get smaller and less expensive reproducing 16 Hz becomes harder and harder.

You are looking at it kind of backwards.

The last thing you should take from the statement is that it won't go as deep in a smaller room.

If you look at the HSU website, they rank their subs by room size. The bigger the sub the larger the room.

There are quite a few people on this forum whose rooms run into the thousands of cubic feet. So Outlaw is saying that their top-of-the-line EX can do 16 Hz in room of at least several thousand cubic feet.

The EX would satisfy many people with rooms as large as >4,000 cubic feet.

Hope this helps. Please remember the sale is over in about another 24 hours.

So I think I've narrowed my choices down to either the VTF-2 or the PB12-NSD. Which do you guys think is the better sub? It will be used 95% movies/TV and 5% music/games. I have a 21'x13'x8' room with hardwood floors. And the sub will probably be sitting in the rear of the listening position. So what do you think? I was really considering one of the Outlaw subs because of the sale, but it looks like they are all sold out.

I just got the new PB12-NSD, and it is FANTISTIC! Best sub I've ever heard period.. Be prepared to spackle some walls when your done, :D

The PB12-NSD now uses the same driver as the PC12-NSD they just haven't updated the site.

Correct - the PC12-NSD and PB12-NSD both use the latest aluminum cone version of the NSD woofer.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to ~17 Hz, and will extend to ~16 Hz anechoic before roll-off. Expect 15 Hz solid in-room.

I just got the PB12-NSD a couple of weeks ago and I'm extremely happy with it. I'm just curious regarding the new aluminum woofer it has. It looks great and I love the laser-etched logo, but are there sound quality improvements over the previous one or is it strictly cosmetic?

Correct - the PC12-NSD and PB12-NSD both use the latest aluminum cone version of the NSD woofer.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to ~17 Hz, and will extend to ~16 Hz anechoic before roll-off. Expect 15 Hz solid in-room.
Just curious, if I put the PC12-NSD Sub in the best spot in my room, then switched it out for a PB12-NSD in the best spot in the room, then if I were blindfolded, would I be able to distinguish one Sub from the other? If so, which one would sound the best? My usage is 100% Home Theater in a very large room and I'm not looking to bring the walls down, but just want to get some "sweet" bass effects for Blu-Ray movies.

Appreciate the help.

Just curious, if I put the PC12-NSD Sub in the best spot in my room, then switched it out for a PB12-NSD in the best spot in the room, then if I were blindfolded, would I be able to distinguish one Sub from the other? If so, which one would sound the best? My usage is 100% Home Theater in a very large room and I'm not looking to bring the walls down, but just want to get some "sweet" bass effects for Blu-Ray movies.

Appreciate the help.

Provided they were both calibrated to the same level and placed in the same room location, I doubt you could tell them apart. They use the same amp, woofer, and port - and also have almost the same internal enclosure volume and tuning frequency.

If you place them in different room locations, all bets are off of course, as even two identical subwoofers will sound completely different if placed in different room locations.

Provided they were both calibrated to the same level and placed in the same room location, I doubt you could tell them apart. They use the same amp, woofer, and port - and also have almost the same internal enclosure volume and tuning frequency.

If you place them in different room locations, all bets are off of course, as even two identical subwoofers will sound completely different if placed in different room locations.
OK, so the only "effective" differences between the 2 Subs are form factor & price. (And that's why SV Sound offers 2 different styles of the same Model). Do I have that right?

Thanks!

OK, so the only "effective" differences between the 2 Subs are form factor & price. (And that's why SV Sound offers 2 different styles of the same Model). Do I have that right?

Thanks!

Essentially, yes - correct. There are minor differences in the data sets between the PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD, but they fall into the 'measureable but not audible' category.