Hey, guys:

Not sure if this is the right board for this question (sry if it's not), but long story short, after a lot of detective work (main symptoms: TiVo HD spontaneously reboots and CableCard won't register all channels), TiVo tech support has determined my cable signal is too "hot" for my TiVo HD (100 with 36 dB), and recommended that I have Comcast install an attenuator (and new CableCard) to bring the signal down to "92 or 93."

My hope that this will work: about zilch.

Is TiVo correct? Will the attenuator actually do the trick? Or will I just end up in the Comcast/TiVo/CableCard black hole?

Thanks!

AF

This is a very common complaint about FiOS television service. Attenuation does appear to reduce the problem evident on TiVo HDs, substantially.

More information: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375011

Hey, guys:

Not sure if this is the right board for this question (sry if it's not), but long story short, after a lot of detective work (main symptoms: TiVo HD spontaneously reboots and CableCard won't register all channels), TiVo tech support has determined my cable signal is too "hot" for my TiVo HD (100 with 36 dB), and recommended that I have Comcast install an attenuator (and new CableCard) to bring the signal down to "92 or 93."

My hope that this will work: about zilch.

Is TiVo correct? Will the attenuator actually do the trick? Or will I just end up in the Comcast/TiVo/CableCard black hole?

Thanks!

AF
It certainly is possible to have too much signal.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

My concern is that the actual problem is the cable card configuration. If it is, I just don't have the energy to go through ten tech visits worth of cable card trial-and-error. Which means back to the Comcast DVR, which means Comcast wins. Oh well.

I think it's interesting that the Motorola/Comcast boxes can handle the signal, but TiVo can't. Why wouldn't the TiVo box be engineered to also handle strong cable signals? Seems like a no brainer to me--either you do that, or lose customers. But this is Corporate America, I reckon. :-)

Just try various splitters in there first. A 2-way will drop the signal level ~3.5dB; an unbalanced 3-way or a 4-way - 7dB; an 8-way -- 11dB. After determining what works best, then you can get the attenuator you need.

Thanks. I guess I'll see what happens with Comcast tomorrow, and hope they even know what an attenuator is.

Additional note: I tested the TiVo without the CC installed, and it rebooted three more times. So confirms the signal is the problem...?

This isn't likely a Comcast problem; it is probably a TiVo problem. Most brands of DVR don't typically need attenuation, and they don't typically reboot spontaneously due to the same causes that causes the TiVo reboot.

If you're lucky, the Comcast tech will know TiVo, too, but that's not really their job.

OK. So it's entirely possible that I got two bad refurbed TiVo units?

Possible, yes; but don't discount the fact that the the TiVo, itself, may simply be unsuitable (without remediation on your part/TiVo's part) for your specific circumstance. Remember, cable systems aren't designed for every potential piece of host equipment -- instead, host equipment must be designed for every cable system. As long as the cable system is within spec, the problem is with the TiVo, but it could very well be a fundamental limitation of the TiVo. Follow that link I gave you earlier and you'll see that, essentially, the TiVo is simply too sensitive to too-hot-but-still-within-spec sources.

That makes sense, unfortunately. Too bad, because I thought TiVo and the cable companies had resolved most of their issues/incompatibility, but apparently not.

I should have gone with my gut on this one, which told me to stay away from the TiVo HD and Comcast nightmare.

I can tell you that, at least with Comcast, it is worth the work to get the thing working. The Comcast folks here were really helpful, and eventually got mine working fine.

FiOS, from what I've read, is not quite so good, in that regard, but they also seem to try hard to help out.

I will admit that Comcast has been surprisingly helpful. Several techs actually called back, and I was even transferred to the Comcast/Tivo group, which supports the Tivo-on-Motorola DVR solution, but apparently also helps with standalone TiVo units.

I think the weak link in this scenario will be the techs who are coming out tomorrow. Those guys don't seem to have a clue. If this whole process breaks down, it will start and end with them.

Beyond that, I'll see what happens with the attenuator/new CC, and then see how much patience I have. I'm not sure how much longer I can make my wife watch commercials and cable access....when in a bind...punt.

rebooting with no rf ... seems like a bad tivo box.

So how is your residence wired for coax? Where have you installed an amplifier? Granted, don't know how accurate the Tivo db measurement is, but if its that high, even an inhouse should be able to correct it as it is a plant issue, if you haven't put in an amp. Most should know what they are doing, but you never know.

Hm. I live in a condo (part of a three-unit Philadelphia style house that was converted from rentals three years ago). When I had Comcast install coax, they just ran the line from the box outside, through the external wall and into my office, then split the line (internet/TV). Office is about 12' x 12', and my TV sits right outside my office, in living room. So overall, from the box outside to my TV, there isn't much coax at all. At the time of the install, I don't remember the guy mentioning anything about an amp.

Well, the Comcast tech came out today and tested the line, and said the signal is fine, right at the mid-point of wherever it should be (4.7 out of 10). So apparently the TiVo tech I spoke to had his head firmly planted up his #$%#.

Comcast tech installed a new CC, and after some back-and-forth with Comcast ATS and one forced TiVo reboot, seems to be working (fingers crossed).

Despite the new CC, the second replacement TiVo started rebooting again, so I gave TiVo support hell, and they agreed to send me a NEW TiVo (not refurb).

As I said to the rep: "You can spend eighty extra dollars to keep a customer for life, or you can cancel my account...your choice."

Thanks for the update. Good luck with it all... ;)

I think thats the first i've ever heard of somebody getting too much signal!
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I too have been having a problem with my TiVo—though I thought the problem was actually with the HDMI input on my new Panny G25 plasma: Sometimes, when changing channels, the audio would get distorted (until you changed the channel and changed it back). Or, sometimes, when turning the TV on, I'd get a white, macro-blocked screen. Finally figured it might be a TiVo problem. TiVo support said my cable signal was too strong. And sure enough, when I popped in an attenuator and a cable splitter, those problems seem to have gone away (thus far)...

I'm having a similar problem with Tivo HD and Comcast--TV picture freezes and then goes to a gray screen; eventually Tivo reboots itself, and goes through the same process. Tivo support had me check the signal strength (100) and the signal-to-noise ratio (37-38), and told me this is too strong--the signal strength should be 85-95 and the SNR 31-35. Comcast tech is coming and I guess will check the signal and if too high, install an attenuator. Will report back if that resolves the problem.

The main problem here is that the TiVo units themselves have varying tolerances for signal and it us usually completely different from what technicians are trained to deliver to the equipment. Cable boxes have a spec that is given by the manufacturer and then tightened ever more by the cable company say motorola says +15 to -15 the cable company will try to get +10 to -10 at worst. And f the box doesn't work properly at those levels more often then not its a defective box. I have never once gotten a firm answer as to what TiVo wants in terms if db at the box. Not the signal measurement that can only be read on a TiVo but actual db that can be read by most any cable signal meter.

This guessing game we're left with is like buying a car having it run fine on 87 octane one day and then the next day you find out you need to feed it diesel. But all the while the manufacturer is telling you to ask the gas station attendant what the car needs to run.


It is a blind situation and there really is no way for the tech to firmly solve the issue. What may work on one won't work on another. It is IMHO TiVo's responsibility to provide the signal attenuators and have the consumer try out what works best for the particular unit in question. Unless of course they can provide uniform tolerance specs for their units. Then the cable tech can deliver that signal and be done with it. All the back and forth is frustrating for the customer and the techs all the while TiVo sits back and collects the money. I would suggest like others have said , have the tech verify good signal. Ask him/her what you have in terms of db and snr/mer and go out a buy a few attenuators and test it yourself until you hit the sweet spot.


Best of luck to you

Here's the follow-up: the Comcast tech came and checked the cable signal strength. He said it was "10-11 db", which he said was "on the high side". He said the usual normal range is -8 to +8, and that he set his at home to "7". He then changed the cable attachments at the cable box on the wall of the garage--the cable from the street went to a splitter with one outlet giving more of a signal drop than the other. After the change, the signal strength was down to 5.5, and the SNR was 33 (Tivo had recommended 31-35). After powering up the Tivo, it worked! And it's still working.

The quick reply didn't have enough room to add one other item: After attenuating the cable signal and restoring the Tivo to normal function, I checked the signal strength according to the Tivo's internal meter, and it still listed the signal strength as "100", and the SNR as "37", which are the same numbers as before dropping the signal strength, according to the tech's meter (and restoring the function of the Tivo). So I guess the Tivo may not be very accurate at measuring the signal strength it is getting.