I have created a room that I want to use to listen to music but also will be viewing TV and movies in a 2.1 setup and am looking for a subwoofer recommendation.

I have an old Carver Amp and B&W preamp with 5.1 surround capable but I will only be using the front speakers which are KEF IQ3. I am looking for a compact subwoofer to fit into the bookcase under the TV.

Dimensions of the bookcase opening is 21"w x 15.5"h x 16"d

I want the most amount of bass without it sounding like it is bottoming out or like one of those rattling trunk cars where it sounds like the thing is going to fall apart. I love deep bass but hate it to sound cheap. Not sure of the correct term to use here to describe what I'm talking about. "Tight" ??? What does that mean anyway?

I have been lurking on several forums trying to learn but wanted to run this by you guys. I have posted a couple of pics of the room.

I could also place a subwoofer between the two chairs if that would be a better placement option and allow for a bigger sub if that matters.

I am open to used, in fact, prefer it if it has been broken in properly. Budget it open. Not crazy money but less than $1000 and if possible, nearer $500 but dont want to sacrifice quality for a crappy cheap sounding sub.

Thanks in advance....
-Murph'

A cheap sounding sub is usually one that is being pushed past it's limits. Also cheap ported subs can sound "boomy" which might be what you're referring to. Sealed subs are often classified as "tight" or "musical" when compared to ported subs, but high quality ported subs can be just as much so.

Rattling cars have nothing to do with the quality of the subwoofer inside the car, but rather everything to do with loosely mounted license plates. You may run into the same issue with all the crap (used endearingly) on your shelves. Low frequencies in that room will undoubtedly cause something to rattle.

A perfect sub for that small space would be the SB12-Plus. It is sealed and highly regarded around here and would fit completely within the confines of your space.

http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

Another lower-cost possibility might be to place an LFM-1 Compact on it's side as it is down firing and down ported.

http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html

A third higher-cost possibility if it would fit (it's a 1/4" too tall and would stick out an inch or two) would be the Rythmik F12-SE. I have the 15" version of this sub and it is completely wonderful.

http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.html

Most other subs will have issues with performing in confined places. Although I'm sure there are other solutions to be had.

Placing the sub between your chairs would open up a world of possibilities (which may be a bad thing). Also, since you mentioned cars, don't expect a home sub to produce anywhere near the SPL of a car sub (a car is a much, much smaller space to fill with sound). Just throwing that out there. Your room is very small though, so you shouldn't have any issues producing lots of quality bass with the above mentioned subs.

Sub placement will be somewhat dependant on the capabilities of the B&W pre amp and selectable crossover frequencies in the setup menu if available. Behind the left side chair in the corner would work for an 80hz xover point. For music and casual HT, the Rythmik F12 http://rythmikaudio.com/F12.html would be the best price vs performance option.

Milkfat....You are dead on....

Thanks for those suggestions. It appears you understand my situation perfectly.

I have to laugh at the comment about all the crap. I have been renovating this old house for about a year and those bookshelves have been a convenient place to store "crap" while the floors were being done finally last week so it wont be that junked up when the project is done....I digress...

What about the Sunfire subs? The size is nice and small but it is still hard for me to believe that such a small sub can move that much air to sound GREAT without sounding stressed. I have nothing to base that on, just hard to believe....

Any suggestions about placing a sub between the chairs. Would that affect the sound stage negatively?

I am open to delving deeper into this project if it is worth it. I really want to have the best possible (within reason) sound in this room. Any suggestions are appreciated including different speakers altogether. I could always use the KEFs in another room. Will keep the Carver amp and B&K preamp though along with the sonos which will feed 25k mp3s via a Peachtree Audio Decco which I use as a DAC from my computer which anchors the sonos system for the rest of the house. (just to explain the entire project)

Thanks again for the sub suggestions.

When I initiated my own quest for the perfect subwoofer I ran across Sunfire which enthralled me with the wattage of their units. It quickly became clear that all that power is necessary just to overcome the inefficiency of a small enclosure. They are still great subwoofers from what I've read, but you pay a premium for the compact enclosure. Also sound-quality seems to suffer with smaller enclosures for various reasons. My 15-inch Rythmik is "only" 370 watts RMS and I'm pretty sure (scientific term) it can hold its own against all but perhaps the Signatures in terms of SPL. I know it will smite all of them in terms of sound-quality... which was the reason I went with Rythmik over all the other options.

You would have to research how a Sunfire would react when placed inside a bookshelf. It has two opposing drivers that would be firing either into the sides of the shelf or one forward and one straight back. I don't have enough knowledge to tell you if that's a good idea or not. The subs I listed would all not be affected by being placed inside a shelf. Velodyne and Totem would be other options you could look at. Definitive Technologies also makes small subs, but they have multiple drivers that would cause the same concerns as Sunfire.

It seems around here that subs can be classified as being best for either "home theater" or "music listening." Home theater meaning higher SPL; music listening meaning higher audio-quality. I'm not sure about others here, but I watch some movies that aren't all about explosions. Some movies even have prominent music throughout... so I went ahead and threw all my beans in the "music listening" can. Luckily they aren't discrete categories and my musical sub is also awesome for heavy LFE films.

As mayhem stated as long as you are crossing the sub at 80hz or lower you shouldn't have an issue with placing the sub between your seats. A 60hz crossover would be even better if your bookshelf speakers can handle it.

As for speakers... you'll get better information by posting in the Speakers forum. I personally went with Ascend Acoustics' Sierra-1 mains... they are awesome pants. They are rear ported which would cause issues in your shelves, but Ascend offers a product called the Q-Plug that is designed to make the speakers work in an enclosed space. You can also post in the Ascend Acoustics forum for more info. That's all I'll say about that.

Actually, that's all I'm going to say about everything for now. :)

Great info, thanks for that....

I've admired the Sierra 1's for a while but being rear ported, didnt want to chance it for $900.

I got a pair of KEF IQ3's for $250 which I thought was a pretty good deal considering the new model of the IQ3 is $700. Just a bang for the buck thing...I can always move them to the bedroom later if the right deal comes up.

What do you think about 2 8"ers to pair with the KEFs in the bookcase.

I am considering buying a couple of cheap TSC 8" subs to place in the bookcase under the KEFs. $200 shipped for both and a free 30 day test and The Speaker Company pays for the return shipping if they dont work.

I really dont need bone shattering bass. Like you, I am looking for musicality first then TV listening second, Movies Third.

MY B&K will crossover at 80hz fyi...and has 2 sub outputs.

Just thinking of options....

I could also put a bigger sub between the two charis to use as an end table???

Thanks to both of you guys....

-Murph

Going with TSC is sort of a confusing change after considering those other subs and your stated budget. Again, I don't know how a down-firing subwoofer will perform inside of a shelf. You can find more information about TSC subs in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099516

Yeah, I know that was a curveball....

Budget is relative....Do I have the money? Sure....
Do I want to spend it on a subwoofer.....Not really....

I Liked everything about the Rythmik but the price. I'd like to find one used. I'll probably ebay or audiogon something but just thought that I would demo the TSC subs since they have free return shipping. No harm done?

Here is my first bang for the buck survey:

Sunfire D8 - $399
Definitive Tech Pro Sub 80 - $200
SVS SV12 - $450

Survey says????

For Music i really think sealed is the way to go. You probobly possess some form of basic carpentry skills so i'll throw this at you.
If you built the box yourself as an endtable for between the two chairs, driver and amp and materials would cost about $400 and best commercial offerings of $1k and up in SQ. I've built about a dozen subs in all and haven't looked back yet. I've currently using a dual 10" coffee table and two 18" end tables and if i didn't tell you they were subs, you'd never know it. If you're interested, post in the DIY Speakers/subs forum.