I currently have a 3.3 with turbo, and I have added an MBM 12 within the past two weeks. The difference is only noticeable on the real deep bass, as it seems the big dog is working more efficiently. I had the MBM shipped for 489.00, and I am within my 30 days. I am debating on upgrading the mbm to the av123 mfw 15 to pair with my 3.3 with turbo. Would this setup be better for an additional two hundred dollars, or am I splitting hairs with the combo that I have.

If you were going to upgrade to a second sub, why not go with another 3.3?

I currently have a 3.3 with turbo, and I have added an MBM 12 within the past two weeks. The difference is only noticeable on the real deep bass, as it seems the big dog is working more efficiently. I had the MBM shipped for 489.00, and I am within my 30 days. I am debating on upgrading the mbm to the av123 mfw 15 to pair with my 3.3 with turbo. Would this setup be better for an additional two hundred dollars, or am I splitting hairs with the combo that I have.

What is currently unsatisfying about your setup? Do you have the MBM located close to your seating position? How did you calibrate it?

Seems like the MBM should have added plenty of additional output if positioned and calibrated properly. Certainly I would expect more based on the many positive user reviews.

If you were going to upgrade to a second sub, why not go with another 3.3?

I just read that the mfw15 is a beast and it would give me more than a second 3.3... Would either the mfw or 3.3 be better than the current plus the mbm?

As MUCHO asked, what does your current setup lack? Take a frequency response reading with and without the MBM. If without the MBM, the 50-100hz or so is lacking, the MBM may be the better way to go. If the response without the MBM is good, perhaps a second sub is the answer for better distibution of the bass and more headroom.

Is don't believe that it is conclusive that the MFW-15 is definitely better than a 3.3 Even if it is marginally better, I still think you would be better off pairing the 3.3's rather than mixing a 3.3 and a MFW-15.

As MUCHO asked, what does your current setup lack? Take a frequency response reading with and without the MBM. If without the MBM, the 50-100hz or so is lacking, the MBM may be the better way to go. If the response without the MBM is good, perhaps a second sub is the answer for better distibution of the bass and more headroom.

Is don't believe that it is conclusive that the MFW-15 is definitely better than a 3.3 Even if it is marginally better, I still think you would be better off pairing the 3.3's rather than mixing a 3.3 and a MFW-15.
A simple FR measurement won't show the effects of the MBM. You can two flat FR's...with and without an MBM and the experiences will be different.

How are things hooked up, crossover settings, placement, room size? And as MUCHO and mojo have asked, what do you feel is lacking?

What is currently unsatisfying about your setup? Do you have the MBM located close to your seating position? How did you calibrate it?

Seems like the MBM should have added plenty of additional output if positioned and calibrated properly. Certainly I would expect more based on the many positive user reviews.

As mucho is suggesting, the MBM ideally should be placed as close to your listening position as possible. Ideally, right behind your sofa or chair and facing directly into the sofa.

It seems you are getting half the benefit of the MBM, the low bass half, but not getting as much as you can out of the MBM in the 50Hz and up region.

As mucho is suggesting, the MBM ideally should be placed as close to your listening position as possible. Ideally, right behind your sofa or chair and facing directly into the sofa.

It seems you are getting half the benefit of the MBM, the low bass half, but not getting as much as you can out of the MBM in the 50Hz and up region.

Yes this sounds correct, it is next to the couch, but can be put behind. It seems as if the MBM 3.3 combo is very strong in the low bass region, it just lacks the upper bass frequencies, even though the flattest I could calculate was
72 for 20 hz,
75 for 30,
77 for 40
80 for 50,
then 82 on up to 200 hz... That was the flattest I could achieve. It seems as if the upper freq should seem louder, but they don;t. -15 mv was where I tuned to these settings. I have to turn it up to -6 to -10 to get any real bass effects. Maybe old reference material was made to sound hot because I had it miscalculated. I just figured with two monster subs, that I would be achieving bass bliss.

Do you feel you are lacking in the "hit in the chest" type bass?

ccarzoo,

When you measured those SPL numbers, did you have both the 3.3, MBM and main speakers all on at the same time? If not, then you probably are having phase cancellations when everything is on.

Have you set the phase correctly? Are they working with each other or against.

The MBM is a 50 Hz up sub.

A simple FR measurement won't show the effects of the MBM. You can two flat FR's...with and without an MBM and the experiences will be different.

How are things hooked up, crossover settings, placement, room size? And as MUCHO and mojo have asked, what do you feel is lacking?

I find this statement interesting. Have you experienced this first hand? I am considering a(n) MBM and I can't quite get what will change. I the FR SPL does not change the energy in the room has not changed, no?

I find this statement interesting. Have you experienced this first hand? I am considering a(n) MBM and I can't quite get what will change. I the FR SPL does not change the energy in the room has not changed, no?
It is easy to demonstrate.

Just using your speakers. Using pink noise, sent the speaker level to some comfortable....lets say 70dB. Sit at your listening position and send a mono source to a single speaker and have a listen. Now, set your listening position to 3 feet from the speaker, send the pink noise and adjust to 70dB, have another listen to the same material. You will find the experience to be different.....the difference being less reflected energy at the listening position.

It is easy to demonstrate.

Just using your speakers. Using pink noise, sent the speaker level to some comfortable....lets say 70dB. Sit at your listening position and send a mono source to a single speaker and have a listen. Now, set your listening position to 3 feet from the speaker, send the pink noise and adjust to 70dB, have another listen to the same material. You will find the experience to be different.....the difference being less reflected energy at the listening position.

I can see your point in that case. In my case I don't have a great placement option for the rear of the room.

I can go to one side of the rear row. I am not sure how that would play out. I was also considering dual MBM's next to my dual ULS-15's per HSU's advise. All in all in a 1700 cubic foot room it is overkill on top of overkill.

Plus it would be quite a display of "back boxes" in the front of the room.

I have pretty good un EQ'd FR in my room but the SVS EQ1 looks interesting. I have REW so I could but it see what it does and return it if it is not worthy. MY ULS's are essentially co located, I could run the ULS's as one sub and the MBM as a second.

With the MBM the same distance from the listener as the ULS, I am not sure how much better it would be over the ULS.

The SVS EQ1 looks like it will be excellent.

ccarzoo,

When you measured those SPL numbers, did you have both the 3.3, MBM and main speakers all on at the same time? If not, then you probably are having phase cancellations when everything is on.


I calculated everything separately and then averaged out the numbers per Peter Marcks request. I did switch the phase on the MBM as it gave the numbers a more balanced approached.

Just for fun:

I then switched the MBM to on, set the 3.3 cross off, and played them together, and it began sounding sloppy.

Solution for temporary:
MBM directly firing into the couch, 3.3 in rear corner of 5000 cubic foot room, and running sub 4-5 decibels hot on the receiver gain and master volume to -6 on the receiver... This achieves what I bought the sub for. Is this too hot? +1 on receiver sub gain, and all speakers, and 9:00 on both 3.3 and MBM...

I calculated everything separately and then averaged out the numbers per Peter Marcks request. I did switch the phase on the MBM as it gave the numbers a more balanced approached.

Just for fun:

I then switched the MBM to on, set the 3.3 cross off, and played them together, and it began sounding sloppy.

Solution for temporary:
MBM directly firing into the couch, 3.3 in rear corner of 5000 cubic foot room, and running sub 4-5 decibels hot on the receiver gain and master volume to -6 on the receiver... This achieves what I bought the sub for. Is this too hot? +1 on receiver sub gain, and all speakers, and 9:00 on both 3.3 and MBM...

I don't know how you calibrated the true sub with the MBM. For the best results here is a thread that explains the proper method: http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=33939&postcount=33.

Bill

Solution for temporary:
MBM directly firing into the couch, 3.3 in rear corner of 5000 cubic foot room, and running sub 4-5 decibels hot on the receiver gain and master volume to -6 on the receiver... This achieves what I bought the sub for. Is this too hot? +1 on receiver sub gain, and all speakers, and 9:00 on both 3.3 and MBM...

I am not sure what you mean by hot. If you start overdriving the subwoofers they will let you know in how they sound so in that respect no, you're not running too hot.

"Hot" around here means that after you have level matched your main speakers to your subwoofer(s) you then turn up the subwoofers. (Typcially at the receiver level.) Each dB you turn up the sub over your mains counts as 1.

I run my subwoofers +4 which means that after level matching my subs to my mains I have turned the subwoofer level at the reciever +4 dB.

How "hot" you run your subwoofers is largely a matter of taste. I like +4 but others would say I run too hot. I used to run even hotter but when watching a movie and a door slamming sounded like a nuclear bomb went off so I backed off a bit. :D

I calculated everything separately and then averaged out the numbers per Peter Marcks request. I did switch the phase on the MBM as it gave the numbers a more balanced approached.

Just for fun:

I then switched the MBM to on, set the 3.3 cross off, and played them together, and it began sounding sloppy.

Solution for temporary:
MBM directly firing into the couch, 3.3 in rear corner of 5000 cubic foot room, and running sub 4-5 decibels hot on the receiver gain and master volume to -6 on the receiver... This achieves what I bought the sub for. Is this too hot? +1 on receiver sub gain, and all speakers, and 9:00 on both 3.3 and MBM...

You can't measure their spl that way as it doesn't account for phase and explains why they played sloppy when you had them all on at the same time.
With out of phase condition, you're inducing cancellations.

I don't know how you calibrated the true sub with the MBM. For the best results here is a thread that explains the proper method: http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=33939&postcount=33.

Bill

Sorry, but that's pretty close to what the original poster of this thread was doing and doesn't account for phase cancellation.

The basic problem is if you put your MBM near field at say 4' and the deep bass sub at 14', you have to deal with 10' of timing difference. You would set your subwoofer distance in your receiver based on the deep sub(adjust till response curve is peaked at and around the crossover frequency), then have to delay the mbm (if the polarity switch doesn't get you there, then you need to look at an external device to adjust distance or phase)to fit the window between your mains and your deep sub. Then you've got the issue that crossovers affecting phase and you need to do some tweeking in subwoofer distance and mbm phase to get it refined.

That's what I did with an MBM and a Velodyne HGS 15. There was a slight sound improvement but not worth the extra gear. Problem with my setup is that the Subwoofer did a pretty decent job with mid bass anyway. Wound up ebaying the MBM. Your 3.3 apparantly doesn't do so well with mid bass so your would likely experience more of an improvement.