How well does a C46 play with a (any) subwoofer?
My Manual is stored, so I am not sure of how to hook it up, and if the c46 provides any crossover for a 2 channel system.

(Amps are 501's / Speakers, Sonus Faber Auditors)

Cheers

How well does a C46 play with a (any) subwoofer?
My Manuel is stored, so I am not sure of how to hook it up, and if the c46 provides any crossover for a 2 channel system.

(Amps are 501's / Speakers, Sonus Faber Auditors)

CheersHere's the manual:
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/downloads/product_manuals/c46om03.pdf

Thanks!
After reading the manual, I am still unclear as to can the Mcintosh c46 be hooked up to a subwoofer.
How?

Thanks
Cheers!

Assuming you are using the main outputs from the C46, you can use either outputs 1 or 2 to feed the subwoofer. You will have to use the subwoofer crossover(s) for the adjustment.

King Titus, what sub were you thinking of using? You could just run speaker cable from your amp/s into your sub and then to your speakers.

King Titus, what sub were you thinking of using? You could just run speaker cable from your amp/s into your sub and then to your speakers.

Fathoms or Ascend with Monitors that cut off at 48hz.
I don't really want to drop circa 3k on a Bryston.
But I am concerned with the melding of sub and monitors with out it, for music.
Overlap bass play/ bloat!

I looked at the fathom and it does not have high level inputs, have you looked ant anything that does? Ascend makes subs that have this option.

I looked at the fathom and it does not have high level inputs, have you looked ant anything that does? Ascend makes subs that have this option.

Sorry,
What is a high level input, on a sub?
Ascend is on the short list!

High level inputs are there so you can run your speaker wire from your amp to the sub, select your crossover point, and then run speaker wire from the sub to your speakers.

High level inputs are there so you can run your speaker wire from your amp to the sub, select your crossover point, and then run speaker wire from the sub to your speakers.


Thanks, I did not know that.

Thanks, I did not know that.

For a 2CH setup I would recommend this.

For a 2CH setup I would recommend this.
Just remember that if you follow this advice, you will be restricting your choice of subwoofers substantially.

Just remember that if you follow this advice, you will be restricting your choice of subwoofers substantially.

Thanks for the replies.
I know I need subs for my SF auditors. A little purchase shy!!!.
I stared with Rel, jl ,Ascend.

I am still not sold on the fact, that my on my full range Speakers, Mcintosh LS360, sound better with subs for music. Which is painful, because, I have owned the subs f113's for quite a while now.
I might be the only one, in the free world, who still clicks the subs off sometimes, and thinks it sounds better. (More air) for music but you lose a kick drum, the Emotiva even improved them a little more. I might need to pony up to purchase big amp or even the XPA-2 to just drive my mains an XPA-5 to drive the other 3 speakers.
Then I will have 8k JL coffee tables.

For HT the subs are needed. Not a close call! It Brings the movie to you and though you..

I have owned the subs f113's for quite a while now.
I might be the only one, in the free world, who still clicks the subs off sometimes, and thinks it sounds better.


I think you might be surprised to find out just how many people with good full range speakers turn their subs off for 2 channel listening. I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way by any means but probably a number of different reasons why they would do so. On the other hand, there are also people here with better speakers then you or I have that will swear their two channel music sounds and is measurably better with subs on.

I understand you've had the 113's for some time but I'll bet you've still given some thought to the notion that even after all this time, you still don't have the subs "dialed in" quite right yet. This possibility might be demonstrating itself more noticeably to you during two channel music playback.
IMO, it might be much easier to get by with subs that are dialed-in, shall we say, less then perfect, for movies, then it might be to be able to get by with subs that are dialed-in less then perfect for music and noticed even more-so between particular types of music

From other fairly recent threads/posts of yours, I suspect you already have an idea that what you require is the ability to have a larger number of settings for your subs then you presently have, in order to get them dialed-in to a more varied selection of sources and source materials. This may in fact be what you require to find satisfaction with your speaker/sub combination.

I am still not sold on the fact, that my on my full range Speakers, Mcintosh LS360, sound better with subs for music. Which is painful, because, I have owned the subs f113's for quite a while now.
I might be the only one, in the free world, who still clicks the subs off sometimes, and thinks it sounds better. (More air) for music but you lose a kick drum, the Emotiva even improved them a little more. I might need to pony up to purchase big amp or even the XPA-2 to just drive my mains an XPA-5 to drive the other 3 speakers.
Then I will have 8k JL coffee tables.

Those LS360's can take a load of power, have you looked at running pro audio amps?

I think you might be surprised to find out just how many people with good full range speakers turn their subs off for 2 channel listening. I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way by any means but probably a number of different reasons why they would do so. On the other hand, there are also people here with better speakers then you or I have that will swear their two channel music sounds and is measurably better with subs on.

I understand you've had the 113's for some time but I'll bet you've still given some thought to the notion that even after all this time, you still don't have the subs "dialed in" quite right yet. This possibility might be demonstrating itself more noticeably to you during two channel music playback.
IMO, it might be much easier to get by with subs that are dialed-in, shall we say, less then perfect, for movies, then it might be to be able to get by with subs that are dialed-in less then perfect for music and noticed even more-so between particular types of music

From other fairly recent threads/posts of yours, I suspect you already have an idea that what you require is the ability to have a larger number of settings for your subs then you presently have, in order to get them dialed-in to a more varied selection of sources and source materials. This may in fact be what you require to find satisfaction with your speaker/sub combination.

Agreed!
I am not sure how people survive with a few settings between HT, multi sacd/Blu, and 2 channel music.
But the closer I get it right in 2 channel, the more expensive the kick drum becomes, to my ears.

Those LS360's can take a load of power, have you looked at running pro audio amps?

Ok, here is the LS 360 rub.
I now have the Emotiva XPA-5 driving them 4 ohm's, so 350 watts per.
Do they sound as good as my 501's at high output? Nope!
But it could be my inexpensive AVR, or many other reasons.
So do I add an XPA-2 for the Fronts on a 5.1 system.
or
Give up, buy more expensive amps. Which I have tried to avoid.
Hoping a watt is a watt, when specs are similar.

Emotiva seems to get good feedback so far, besides a couple of complaints. Like any/every product.

The LS360 is a very non-fatiguing speaker, with solid bass.
I personally, preferred them over the XLS360's, which I was about to buy at the time.
It does seem, the more watts the better/more full, the sound gets.

High level inputs are there so you can run your speaker wire from your amp to the sub, select your crossover point, and then run speaker wire from the sub to your speakers.
and why on earth would he want to do that?? good lord, welcome to 1975.




king tuts, please ignore our resident troll dougie. By looking at subs that have high level IO's, you are not only reducing drastically the number of subwoofers that you can choose from, but more importantly, the quality of the subwoofers and how they integrate with the room.

Let the subwoofer do what it is supposed to do best: reproduce low frequency content with available headroom, good low end extension, no distortion, and small group decay.

Let your Processing do the bass management for you, not the sub. Most decent processors allow for several configurations, even in 2 channel music, wherein the subwoofer can still be active if so desired. Features such as "enhanced bass" (or LFE+main, etc) allow for your front mains to play the low frequency content in conjunction with the subwoofer (sometimes called "redundant" bass), which for 90% of the applications actually enhance the overall experience. This is how many of us have ran the setups for years now. If you don't want to engage your subs, then, you simply disable this feature and now you can have your mains do all the work, which many high end systems do ;)

Additionally, you can let either your Processor and/or your subwoofer's EQ system apply the equalization on the subwoofer band, be it via integrated EQ controls such as ARO, SMS-1, etc, or via generic Audyssey, Logic7, etc.

The main thing to try to shoot for is "quality" of the subwoofer, and correct integration with your system.

I have run into a situation, that I need to do first, more soundproofing!
My neighbors/tenants/wife are grumbling.
Time to build the sound vault first, before I my tenants attack.
Then hire a pro, to hit all the home sytems.

My home is 3 stories, block, Bottom floor is HT, and the top floor is still like a trampoline with only 2 subs and a low bass movie.

Give up, buy more expensive amps. Which I have tried to avoid.
Hoping a watt is a watt, when specs are similar.

Pro audio amps are cheap and will give any amount of power that you want.

king tuts, please ignore our resident troll dougie. By looking at subs that have high level IO's, you are not only reducing drastically the number of subwoofers that you can choose from, but more importantly, the quality of the subwoofers and how they integrate with the room.

How so?

Let the subwoofer do what it is supposed to do best: reproduce low frequency content with available headroom, good low end extension, no distortion, and small group decay.

No distortion? Last time I looked most subs were 5-10% THD.

King Titus are you using the C46 or a receiver?

No distortion? Last time I looked most subs were 5-10% THD.

King Titus are you using the C46 or a receiver?
that's exactly the problem Lloyd....you LOOK and google too damn much, and dont know jack! 10% THD?! LOL.. again, welcome to 1990.

please bring your hilarity and lack of comprehension about subwoofer technology over the subwoofer forum so we can all get a good laugh.

that's exactly the problem Lloyd....you LOOK and google too damn much, and dont know jack! 10% THD?! LOL.. again, welcome to 1990.

please bring your hilarity and lack of comprehension about subwoofer technology over the subwoofer forum so we can all get a good laugh.

Please tell me what THD numbers you think subs put out?

King Titus are you using the C46 or a receiver?

The Mcintosh C46= 2 channel system, small monitor speakers (SF) plus (sub to be)

(An AVR runs the HT room)

Please tell me what THD numbers you think subs put out?
like asking "please tell me what horsepower do cars put out"?? are you this retarded?

since you are so good at eating numbers and googling, go for it. Here, I'll get you started. Look at output levels, 90,100db, at 20hz (audible range):

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/lms/TC%20Sounds%20LMS-5400%2018%20sealed%20200L%20thd1.png

* multi-subs and proper location will take sub 5%THD down to single digits.
* THD, is the TOTAL harmonic distortion, and includes IM and transients, so THD represents more than just bad "distortion".

like asking "please tell me what horsepower do cars put out"?? are you this retarded?

since you are so good at eating numbers and googling, go for it. Here, I'll get you started. Look at output levels, 90,100db, at 20hz (audible range):

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/lms/TC%20Sounds%20LMS-5400%2018%20sealed%20200L%20thd1.png

* multi-subs and proper location will take sub 5%THD down to single digits.
* THD, is the TOTAL harmonic distortion, and includes IM and transients, so THD represents more than just bad "distortion".

THX reference level for subs is 115dB at the listening position. Plus, it is easy to find subs that look worse at 20hz THD than the one you picked:

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/shootout5/jl%20audio%20f113%20thd.png

Finally, I am pretty sure that THD does not "include" IMD. If I'm wrong on that, I'd be happy to read any link to the contrary that you can provide.

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/shootout5/jl%20audio%20f113%20thd.png
What do sweeps 1-6 represent?

What do sweeps 1-6 represent?

90dB working up to 115dB.

THX reference level for subs is 115dB at the listening position.
THX is irrelevant in the subwoofer testing world. You are confusing listening position levels, which are completely dependent on room and environment, with these measurements which are ground plane measurements (2M), which is a more universal and standard test. You will be hard pressed to find ANY 2M GP measurements of any sub hitting 115dB my friend.

Plus, it is easy to find subs that look worse at 20hz THD than the one you picked:
yes, the point is with today's subs, there are many options from high THD% sealed subs (as you pointed with teh Fathom), to low % ported options like the PB13-Ultra:
http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/shootout5/svs%20pb13ultra%2015hz%20thd.png



Finally, I am pretty sure that THD does not "include" IMD. If I'm wrong on that, I'd be happy to read any link to the contrary that you can provide.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/971-subwoofer-tests-explained.html#post6984
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/971-subwoofer-tests-explained.html#post6985

includes fundamentals as well, something I forgot ;)

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/971-subwoofer-tests-explained.html#post6984
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/971-subwoofer-tests-explained.html#post6985

includes fundamentals as well, something I forgot ;)


THD is a total of harmonic components, but I still believe IMD is not one of the components.

* multi-subs and proper location will take sub 5%THD down to single digits.

And that is what you consider "distortion less"? Single digits or less then 5% are still a lot higher then THD from the mid/high.

yes, the point is with today's subs, there are many options from high THD% sealed subs (as you pointed with teh Fathom), to low % ported options like the PB13-Ultra:

Turn up the volume and record the THD at listening levels and it will be 5% or greater, the SVS I think had 4% at a high volume but I will have to find that review.