(*sigh* I had this post all drafted with a couple of links included, but the "you can't include links until you have 3 posts" anti-spammer feature won't let me include those links. Doing my best for a work-around below.)

We have had a Panasonic DVR-E85H for several years (it was actually sent as a replacement to an earlier Panasonic model when their authorized service center was unable to fix a problem).

We have digital cable with a box, no HD (not interested). We want to be able to record and watch when we want, and also to burn to a disc.

Yesterday, the Panasonic "locked up" with the "please wait" message showing. After searching here (in particular the thread: {can't link, thread title is "panasonic DMR E85H crashed"}) I have concluded that we most likely have the capacitor problem described there.

We don't really want to pay $130 to panasonic to fix this several year old machine, nor are we comfortable trying to do it ourselves. We thought that maybe it's time to simply get a new unit (have not been happy with Panasonic anyway, for a variety of reasons). But after searching, I'm surprised to find the complete LACK of anything comparable on the market.

The only real option I have found is the Philips DVDR3576H for $850 - well out of our price range. This thread {can't link; thread on club.cdfreaks.com title is "DMR-E85H Hangs on PLEASE WAIT"} mentions the "Philips 3576" available at Sam's Club for $248 as an option (not sure if this is the same unit as the $850 one above or a lesser model), but I certainly can't find it at the Sam's Club website.

I guess my question is, IS there anything on the market that is comparable to the e85H? Has TIVO/Direct TV/cable-company-supplied DVR's pushed these out of the market? The only affordable units I find record directly to disc, but don't include a hard drive. The HD units I find, such as what we could get through comcast, don't allow us to burn to a disc. Do we have any options, other than trying to fix the panny?

Thanks for your wisdom and insight. :)

Click #1 in my signature for lots of organized info on the Philips 3576 and its clone the Magnavox 2160.

In the long table there, Section 8. Sellers and Support give some links to sellers, incl. Walmart online for the 3576 at $298, and the Mag for $249 (when it gets back in stock).

Thanks for those links. It looks like these are pretty impossible to find in stock, but at least I know what to look for.

Do you know if the Philips model has TV Guide On Screen? I downloaded the manual and don't see anything about it, so I'm guessing not. We have gotten spoiled with that with the panasonic (when the data download actually works, anyway, which has been unreliable since we switched to a digital cable box). I would hate to lose that feature. :eek::(

Sorry, no TVG in either unit. :(

*sigh* that bites. :( I guess we should at least make an attempt to get the panny fixed.

Thanks for your quick replies, I appreciate your help.

*sigh* that bites. :( I guess we should at least make an attempt to get the panny fixed.

Thanks for your quick replies, I appreciate your help.Keep in mind that analog TVGOS may not be available much longer. As I posted in another thread:

TVGOS was formerly distributed using the analog PBS feed, available on both OTA and cable. That is going away soon, if it hasn't already.

Macrovision (formerly Gemstar) reached an agreement with CBS to distribute TVGOS information with their digital broadcast. This information is now available in many markets (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos). In theory, TVs and DVD recorders with QAM tuners should be able to receive this information on the cable company's CBS HD feed, once upgraded with a newer version of the TVGOS software.

This may not always work in practice, depending on what the cable company does with the source CBS HD feed. For best (reliable) results, some users may need to connect an off-air antenna to continue receiving TVGOS information.

For those older analog devices without ATSC or QAM tuners, some cable companies may also install equipment to take the digital TVGOS feed, convert it to analog, and distribute it with an analog channel on their system. I haven't heard much about this and I wouldn't depend on it.

Looking forward, to get TVGOS on cable, you likely need a product with a ATSC or QAM tuner. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any DVD recorders that have (a) a hard drive, (b) QAM tuner for cable, and (c) TVGuide.

Has TIVO/Direct TV/cable-company-supplied DVR's pushed these out of the market?

Uh... yeah. About four years ago. The only people who thought TVGOS DVD/HDD recorders were a better deal were the dedicated and/or obsessive people on this forum:D, plus a few ordinary consumers like yourself. To the vast unwashed, TVGOS was not perceived as "easier", it was perceived as yet another annoying VCR+ variation that still involved tedious setup and coordination with their cable box, use of an IR transmitter, and other nonsense. In consumer video, the market for the middle ground dried up years ago, and TVGOS is a "middle ground" feature: it isn't "idiot proof" enough to justify its cost, and it isn't the "cheapest possible option" for the frugal. TVGOS survives now primarily because new ATSC televisions need some method to tell us what the hell is playing on all those ATSC subchannels not listed in the newspaper guides. The type of DVD/HDD recorder necessary to make full use of TVGOS is utterly dead at retail and no longer available: your EH-85 was the last (and best-designed) machine to include the feature.


Do we have any options, other than trying to fix the panny?

No, and fixing the Panny is no guarantee the feature will operate in six months or even six days. Recorder-based TVGOS is an obsolete analog signal, which the powers-that-be have virtually no interest in maintaining: since it isn't a distinct money-maker for cable, its a very low priority, and they want you to rent their own PVRs anyway. The Panasonic $130 flat-fee is very reasonable, and your model is worth that repair cost for many reasons other than the now-waning TVGOS feature. Getting it fixed is really your best option. The analog TVGOS disappearing act is unpredictable and varies widely region to region: you could get another years use of the feature, or it could be gone in a matter of weeks.

Enjoy your repaired recorder as long as you can, then when TVGOS goes dark in your area do what a lot of others do: upgrade your cable box to PVR. The recording cable box functions more-or-less like TVGOS, except you would need to manually copy anything you want to keep in real-time to your EH-85. It isn't nearly as convenient and efficient as having the recording and guide functions built into your Panasonic, but you do gain one or two benefits, such as the ability to record two shows on different channels simultaneously and not having to worry about the cable company screwing with the guide data. Not a big silver lining, to be sure, and you do pay extra for it, but it beats setting separate manual timers on cable box and DVD recorder once the TVGOS is gone.

Thank you both for your replies and the info about TVGOS. I didn't realize that it might be going away, but that's good to know so that we can factor that into our equation.

From the thread I read here about fixing the capacitor on the e85h, it seems like it should be fairly doable (assuming that IS in fact the problem, which I think it is, since our symptoms are exactly what is described). I think I might see if I can find a local electronics shop, bring them a print-out of the relevant post in that thread, and see if they can do it. I'm almost tempted to try it myself, but the need to solder (sp?) snaps me out of it. :rolleyes:

Uh... yeah. About four years ago. The only people who thought TVGOS DVD/HDD recorders were a better deal were the dedicated and/or obsessive people on this forum:D, plus a few ordinary consumers like yourself. To the vast unwashed, TVGOS was not perceived as "easier", it was perceived as yet another annoying VCR+ variation that still involved tedious setup and coordination with their cable box, use of an IR transmitter, and other nonsense.

Heh... well, we always wondered why we would ever want to pay for TIVO service, or a monthly fee to the cable company, when we could get basically the same function from a unit that we OWNED, and on top of that, be able to burn discs. I suppose that even if the panny never recoooperates, we have gotten our money's worth out of it. Had we been paying the $10+/mo fee to comcast for the years we've owned it, it would have added up to more than it cost, and we wouldn't have had the disc burning option.

I hafta say TVGOS didn't factor a bit in my original decision to get a DMR-E85 (June 2004), but once I got the machine up and running, I found the feature pretty handy. So much so that I've missed it since shutting it down last fall in anticipation of the now-postponed switch to all digital. I just naturally expected that with the end of analog broadcasts TVGOS on the E85 was toast. But then I'm strictly, defiantly, and proudly OTA (dangit, I'm an American--I have a God-given right to free TV!), so relying on the generosity of a cable company was never an option.

In the last couple years, I used TVGOS mostly as a handy way to check a day or two ahead and see if the shows I normally watch were on and when, or to find programs that might interest me. Then I'd set the record timer manually, which I found more reliable than setting the timer events via TVGOS. Sure it was wonderfully easy to click on the TVGOS listing and say "record this"--until I sat down to watch the show and found.....nothing. Some of the failures were undoubtedly operator error where I inadvertently did something to hose up the scheduled event. I certainly got jacked up by the odd glitch where timer events set before going on or off DST wouldn't work.

Fortunately, the local PBS (or is it CBS?) station here in the trackless wilds of rural I-o-way did a great job of keeping the TVGOS data flowing; very rarely did I ever pull up the grid without seeing a full 7 days' worth of programming. But it was a happy side benefit of using the E85, not the reason I got the machine.

BTW, if Panasonic still offers the $135 flat fee repair deal when my E85 tanks, even though I have other HDD recorders, I will flip the green to revive the Panny for its good PQ, ease of use, incredibly handy FR recording mode, and my warm, fuzzy attachment to the thing.

We have had a Panasonic DVR-E85H for several years <snip>....
Yesterday, the Panasonic "locked up" with the "please wait" message showing.

What are the odds this happening to 2 E85s on same night? Mine (while turned off) exhibited the "Please Wait" message for a bit last night and at some point went back off. Later I turned it on and started transfering a satellite VOD movie over. All seemed to be working fine. I went to bed.

This morning E85 is totally dead as in no sign of power. Have tried some recommendations in another thread but as yet no luck. Tried different cords and checked fuse, which looks fine. It's just weird as this thing has been rock solid for years.

Wonder if any other E85 owners had similar issues last night.

An HDD recorder to use with a digital cable box? I'd say a Panny EH67, but since you don't really want a Panny, a Canadian Pioneer would be great.

You won't find anything nowadays with TVGOS, though.

... well, we always wondered why we would ever want to pay for TIVO service, or a monthly fee to the cable company, when we could get basically the same function from a unit that we OWNED, and on top of that, be able to burn discs...

Beautifully put, Scrappy. I don't understand why the general public doesn't "get" this concept. I wish we could wake them up to smell the coffee this bad economy is brewing. Too bad one of the last things people are willing to cut back on is TV bills.

Beautifully put, Scrappy. I don't understand why the general public doesn't "get" this concept. I wish we could wake them up to smell the coffee this bad economy is brewing. Too bad one of the last things people are willing to cut back on is TV bills.I don't think one can really understand the value of a modern DVR until they've spent time with one.

DVD recorders with hard drives now support functions like pause, instant replay, and "chase play." These were standard features on DVRs released back in 1999. These represent just a few of a dozen (or more) essential features on a modern DVR. Spend a few months with a dual-tuner DVR like the TivoHD and you would probably find it rather difficult to go back to a DVD Recorder.

As far as cost, they are not as expensive as they used to be. Several years ago, a high-definition TiVo cost $799 plus a subscription. Now the dual-tuner TivoHD goes for $199 at Sears and you have the option of a single, upfront subscription payment with no future fees.

If you are serious about cutting your monthly bill, drop cable and get yourself a set-top antenna, a DTVPal DVR or TivoHD, and a subscription to Netflix.

You could get one of those used Toshiba's that have a DVD burner (but no editing capablilties) and come with free basic TiVo.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-RS-TX20-Recorder-Series2-Digital/dp/B000646MZW

If you're going to spend that much though, you might as well get the HD model, in case you ever want to upgrade your TV.

Beautifully put, Scrappy. I don't understand why the general public doesn't "get" this concept. I wish we could wake them up to smell the coffee this bad economy is brewing.The concept you are missing is that the general public has been buying HD-TVs these past years -- a trend that will continue since that's all you can get any more. Most people that spend the big money to buy a big HD-TV want to watch HD, not SD which means they want to time-shift in HD not SD. That leaves DVDR's which are all SD out in the cold with the growing HD crowd.

As for TiVo HD, you really can't compare it to a DVD recorder. Aside from the guide-based dual-tuner DVR functionality, the broadband capabilities (including NetFlix streaming) and home network functionality make it more of a media center and put it in a class by itself.

Good point. Any time you point the finger and say, "They don't 'get' it," you really should step back and think about whether it is you doesn't actually 'get' it. The general public values what it values. Hanging on on high-tech discussion forums sometimes gives us a warped sense of what the general sense of things actually is.

I've been reading all of these replies with great interest, although much of the techie stuff you guys are talking about is over my head. LOL! Glad to have stimulated a lively discussion, though.

If I may interject with another very novice question: is it true (as I think it used to be) that a TIVO machine and service would require the ability to plug into a phone jack? There is no phone jack accessible in the vicinity of our tv, so I have always beleived that to be a show-stopper with TIVO.

We have decided to contact Panasonic tomorrow and verify the $130 repair option, and try that. After that, I guess our alternative would be to get Comcast's dvr, and just lose the ability to burn discs (unless we get a separate unit for that).

is it true (as I think it used to be) that a TIVO machine and service would require the ability to plug into a phone jack?These days, the best method of connecting your TiVo to the TiVo service is via the Internet. I have my TiVo connected to my home network (one wirelessly), and never have to think about them.

Well, I do understand that people want to use their HDTV's to their full potential. If you're spending $2000 on a nice TV its a hard pill to swallow when watching analog cable, for instance. I'll admit that. I was pleasantly surprised, however, to see that my new Magnavox H2160MW9 DVDR records HD shows over digital QAM at a PQ that comes pretty darn close to commercial DVD's.

I guess if you're using TivoHD, you probably have already made the jump to Blu Ray as well, though, huh? I have not. For some reason, I'm perfectly happy with regular DVD's upscaling to my TV's 1080p native resolution. But, again, we could have the same discussion on how Blu Ray players have dropped down toward the $200 mark and I'd say what about the cost difference between buying Blu Ray movies vs. DVD movies? It's the ongoing costs that concern me much more than the upfront cost. Remember when cable companies used to try to charge you $5/month to rent their cable modem for high speed internet service? I was one of the first ones to go out looking to buy my own. Don't get me started on people who lease cars...I've probably hijacked this thread already as it is (sorry about that). ;)

bfdtv wrote:

Now the dual-tuner TivoHD goes for $199 at Sears and you have the option of a single, upfront subscription payment with no future fees.

What is the single, upfront subscription payment of a dual-tuner TivoHD? I can't believe the normal rate is $12.95/month. I could buy a new DVDR every year and a half for that much...pretty soon I'd have a DVDR in every room of the house with a TV.

Well, I do understand that people want to use their HDTV's to their full potential. If you're spending $2000 on a nice TV its a hard pill to swallow when watching analog cable, for instance. I'll admit that. I was pleasantly surprised, however, to see that my new Magnavox H2160MW9 DVDR records HD shows over digital QAM at a PQ that comes pretty darn close to commercial DVD's.

I guess if you're using TivoHD, you probably have already made the jump to Blu Ray as well, though, huh? I have not. For some reason, I'm perfectly happy with regular DVD's upscaling to my TV's 1080p native resolution. But, again, we could have the same discussion on how Blu Ray players have dropped down toward the $200 mark and I'd say what about the cost difference between buying Blu Ray movies vs. DVD movies? It's the ongoing costs that concern me much more than the upfront cost. Remember when cable companies used to try to charge you $5/month to rent their cable modem for high speed internet service? I was one of the first ones to go out looking to buy my own. Don't get me started on people who lease cars...I've probably hijacked this thread already as it is (sorry about that). ;)

bfdtv wrote:

Now the dual-tuner TivoHD goes for $199 at Sears and you have the option of a single, upfront subscription payment with no future fees.

What is the single, upfront subscription payment of a dual-tuner TivoHD? I can't believe the normal rate is $12.95/month. I could buy a new DVDR every year and a half for that much...pretty soon I'd have a DVDR in every room of the house with a TV.

Yeah, you'd have a lot of Tivo's without any functionality. Ha.

At least Tivo allows you to one-time purchase the Hardware, unlike Cable Co's which charge: $10/month for DVR and $10/month for DVR service) Though, even with Tivo on a cable system you will have to pay an additional $2/month for a one-way cable card. For some unfathomable reason, most people find it easier to swallow indefinite monthly fees for hardware, rather than a single significant up front cost. Maybe one of the contributing reasons we are in this economic mess - people not appreciating the time value of money (plus corrupt and inept politicians and corporate greed)

It's the tried and true - give away the razor for free and sell them the blades for a fortune business model. Unfortunately - this razor costs $199 :eek:

TiVo lifetime service is $399 if you're a new customer, $299 if you already have a TiVo subscription. "Lifetime" is the lifetime of the TiVo, of course, not you. (You'd be amazed at how many people get that wrong.)

These days, the best method of connecting your TiVo to the TiVo service is via the Internet. I have my TiVo connected to my home network (one wirelessly), and never have to think about them.

That would be great, except our internet is DSL so that requires a phone line, anyway. I would be OK with wireless, but my dh is pretty old-school and very hesitant to have anything in our house that might transmit sensitive information (e.g., making purchases over the internet, etc) "wireless", for fear that it might be possible to intercept the signal. I think it would take some convincing for him to accept a wireless solution. :rolleyes:

You could always use a wireless phone jack(~$69). It plugs into the wall and also a phone jack. It then transmits wirelessly to a receiver that you would have near your Tivo. You then run a simple phone cord from the wireless receiver to your Tivo. Since the Tivo is just sending guide info it's not like your network or private info will be in the air.

BTW if you like TVGOS you'll like Tivo even more. It goes out 2 weeks and is more complete IMO. Just do as I did, think of the Tivo as a $580 fee free HD recorder. For archiving you'll still need a cheap line input DVDR or better yet connect to your PC via a wire or wirelessly.

If you can do without the guide and HD then I'd probably get the Maggy 2160.

Not to beat a dead horse, but we sometimes need to back off and admit our perspectives, while compelling to us here at AVS, can be at odds with the larger population. That includes my own obsession with making a DVD of practically everything I've ever seen;), and the kneejerk obsession some of you have that buying a standalone recorder with TVGOS somehow stops you from getting screwed by high cable fees: it does if you're satisfied with bare-bones service or OTA offerings, but the cost savings is minimal or actually irrelevant if you're a TV-addicted family that opts for the whole shebang.

Some of you also forget that people hardly ever apply "common sense" to consumer electronics, and their perception of "value" is not all dollars and cents. Again, if you are satisfied with basic boxless cable, or free OTA programming, a standalone DVD/HDD machine is ideal and TVGOS adds a convenience feature. But most people who buy into cable want premium channels, and premium channels require the decoder box. The minute you start futzing with a separate decoder, standalone recorders become way less convenient and the TVGOS only helps a little, and then only if you happened to buy a late-model Panasonic with a TVGOS that actually worked reliably (it was useless on Pioneers and spotty on Toshibas).

A large flat-panel display offers blatantly obvious value for the money spent: the big screen. Consumers will finance these or hock something to buy them without a second thought. Recorders? Not so much. A TVGOS-equipped Panasonic cost about $400 when last available. Your average cable subscriber is not going to view a $400 wad of cash upfront as all that better a value than renting the integrated decoder/PVR. The PVR rental does not tie up their credit cards, does not accumulate interest, and if it wears out the cable company replaces it free. If you are already spending upwards of $80 monthly for Premium cable for two rooms and internet service, an extra $10 for the PVR goes unnoticed in the final tab. The only real advantage to the separate recorder is DVD-burning ability, but the mass market has decisively rejected that feature as insignificant. Integrated one-click HD timeshifting? Absolutely, they'll sign a lifetime monthly contract for that. Hit or miss DVD burning that operates more like a computer than a VCR? Their answer is "no thanks".

Value is in the eye of the beholder. In my section of New York, the only remotely decent internet provider is the cable company, so I'm on the hook for that. I have a large multi-generational family, so we need three decoder connections for three different viewing rooms spread across two apartments/floors. Everyone wants HBO and Showtime. The monthly tab runs $109 before adding a PVR. I already have the sticker shock of $109 monthly billing, having it go to $121 at this point doesn't faze me if it means I don't have to do all the recording in my house to satisfy the timeshifters (none of whom wants a DVD anyway). My situation is extreme because the bill covers a two family house, but the average tab for my friends from Pittsburgh to Phoenix to LA is reported as $50 more-or-less, much more if they also get their net connection via cable. The $10 PVR fee doesn't mean much to them either if it provides no-brainer timeshifting.

That is the reality of the USA marketplace. A huge percentage of us opt for expensive cable/satellite + internet packages, and will work two jobs if necessary to pay the tab. We are not using "free" OTA or the $20 "cable for grandma" deals: if we were, standalone recorders and TVGOS would be huge hits. They aren't: they're dead in the water. If you love your DVD/HDD recorder, especially if its an EH-series Panny, fix it when it breaks and/or buy backup machines when you can afford it. They are going going gone from North America: Panasonic bailed last year, Pioneer is circling the drain, and Phillips is pulling the plug on its two units this coming summer. No amount of bemoaning the "clueless public" will change this. And if we're honest with ourselves, most of the threads here are NOT "happy happy joy joy my DVD/HDD recorder has worked flawlessly for five years": the typical thread is more along the lines of "awww, F@*K, my precious Panasonic/Toshiba/Pioneer croaked on me a month after its warranty expired, how can I fix it myself for less than $300?" Don't think consumers are unaware of these atrocious durability stories: there's plenty of publicity about that. A $400 recorder is arguably a great value if you appreciate its features, having to spend $130-300 to repair it 18 months after purchase makes it w-a-y less attractive. Only us die-hards with the DVD archiving bug will put up with that hassle and expense.

That would be great, except our internet is DSL so that requires a phone line, anyway. I would be OK with wireless, but my dh is pretty old-school and very hesitant to have anything in our house that might transmit sensitive information (e.g., making purchases over the internet, etc) "wireless", for fear that it might be possible to intercept the signal. I think it would take some convincing for him to accept a wireless solution. :rolleyes:You can just use the wireless for the TiVo, and therefore no sensitive information whatsoever travels through the air. TiVo will not force you to use the wireless capability in your router for anything other than supporting the TiVo program guide.

The concept you are missing is that the general public has been buying HD-TVs these past years -- a trend that will continue since that's all you can get any more. Most people that spend the big money to buy a big HD-TV want to watch HD, not SD which means they want to time-shift in HD not SD. That leaves DVDR's which are all SD out in the cold with the growing HD crowd.

As for TiVo HD, you really can't compare it to a DVD recorder. Aside from the guide-based dual-tuner DVR functionality, the broadband capabilities (including NetFlix streaming) and home network functionality make it more of a media center and put it in a class by itself.

The big things I don't like about TIVO are a)monitoring and reselling info about my viewing habits (I'm strictly OTA no cable) b)the broadcast flag that they could use to expire or prevent recording programs despite the Supreme Court Betamax decision that I'm allowed to record and time shift.

As great as the TIVO interface and features (as much as I like my Panny TVGOS - it has shortcomings) those two facts have prevented me from buying a TIVO and paying the lifetime upfront subscription. The amount of work and maintenance involved in a myth tv / sage tv setup has made me unenthusiastic about going that direction.

Although this particular thread is Panasonic-oriented, it should be noted that Pioneer officially killed its Canadian DVD/HDD recorders this week. They will not be restocking Future Shop, etc, with the existing x60 series and there will be no 2009 "x70" series. They are gone, kaput. So if any Panny owners were considering a 2008 Pioneer for a backup deck, now would be the time to scrounge one up before they completely disappear or prices skyrocket ala the EH-55. With Pioneer gone, Magnavox 2160 gone, the Sony 780 selling out, and the Phillips 3576 on life support, we have zero sources of new backup machines to accompany our assorted "vintage" DVD/HDD recorders. I really hate using my computers for this kind of thing, so I hope the burners in my recorders hold up at least another year :(.

The big things I don't like about TIVO are a)monitoring and reselling info about my viewing habits (I'm strictly OTA no cable) b)the broadcast flag that they could use to expire or prevent recording programs despite the Supreme Court Betamax decision that I'm allowed to record and time shift.

As great as the TIVO interface and features (as much as I like my Panny TVGOS - it has shortcomings) those two facts have prevented me from buying a TIVO and paying the lifetime upfront subscription. The amount of work and maintenance involved in a myth tv / sage tv setup has made me unenthusiastic about going that direction.If you have not read it recently, you might want to check out the TiVo HD reference post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11126048#post11126048) to get the latest information. Here are just 2 items from the FAQ that show your issues are not issues at all.

46. Does the TivoHD observe copy protection flags, such as the broadcast flag?

The TiVo ignores all flags on OTA channels, including the broadcast flag.

The TiVo ignores all flags except for the CCI bit used by some cable companies on digital cable channels (typically premium movie channels).

There are no restrictions on recording local or cable channels. The only restrictions on digital cable channels relate to the ability to transfer recordings from channels flagged with the CCI=0x02 (copy one generation) bit.You'll never have problems with the unit incorrectly responding to false copy-protection flags. In addition you can transfer any OTA recorded broadcast (in HD) to your PC for remote archival storage or to burn to disk -- in SD/5.1 or HD/5.1 if you desire.
49. Does TiVo report my viewing habits?

The short answer is yes. By default, the programs you record and the commercials you skip are reported anonymously to TiVo.

Privacy status with a TiVo is opt-out, opt-neutral, or opt-in. The default status for every customer is "opt neutral" unless they call to change it. With opt-neutral, the programs you record and the commercials you skip get reported anonymously to TiVo during the nightly service connection. This information is aggregated for tens of thousands of users, and then sold to advertisers so they can see what programs TiVo users are watching and what commercials are most effective (get skipped the most/least). All this information is reported anonymously so there is never any link to you or your DVR.

If you decide to "opt-in," then the DVR reports the same information to TiVo, except it is linked to your DVR and your contact information. If you call TiVo and "opt-out", no information on recorded programs and skipped commercials is reported. Go read the TiVO HD FAQ I referenced above. After you do, you'll be on your way to Sears to pick one up. I added a TiVo HD to my equipment rack and ended up pulling the plug on my Panasonic EH85.

If you have not read it recently, you might want to check out the TiVo HD reference post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11126048#post11126048) to get the latest information. Here are just 2 items from the FAQ that show your issues are not issues at all.

You'll never have problems with the unit incorrectly responding to false copy-protection flags. In addition you can transfer any OTA recorded broadcast (in HD) to your PC for remote archival storage or to burn to disk -- in SD/5.1 or HD/5.1 if you desire.
Go read the TiVO HD FAQ I referenced above. After you do, you'll be on your way to Sears to pick one up. I added a TiVo HD to my equipment rack and ended up pulling the plug on my Panasonic EH85.

Ah, did not know they had changed their stance. And there were those issues a couple of years back with the flag getting set on I think it was some Fox programs. You may have just cost me a sizable chunk o' cash:-)

After you do, you'll be on your way to Sears to pick one up.I wish. The Sears' around here don't have any.

You may have just cost me a sizable chunk o' cash:-)It only stings for a minute. Get it at Sears for $200. Lifetime is $400. Once you hook it up to your network and load the TiVo desktop to your PC you'll never look back.

The Tivo HD was advertised in last Sundays flyer for $199. It said in-store only, not on-line. It was out of stock at my local Sears (they basically keep zero inventory to save costs). Anyway they ordered it to my store and it came a few days later.

Good to know. Thanks.

Sony DVR's still working fine and picking up all guide info here, although it supposedly isn't for a lot of people right now, so I'm kinda debating if I should just pick up the TiVo now or wait.

If your Sony is still working I'd probably stick with that for now. HD is HD and the Tivo isn't probably going to look any better than your Sony DVR. True Tivo has some cool features, great guide, record only new programs, automatically record your favorite actors/subjects etc. etc. originally if the Pal would have been reliable I'd probably have one of those instead. As it turned out I'm glad I got the Tivo and have quickly become spoiled on it's reliability and features. Today I had 13:eek: items in my "to do list" and tomorrow I have 10 followed by 8 on Thursday. Many are just talk shows where Tivo picked up a favorite actor or subject matter and automatically set the recording for me. Then there's the season pass recordings where Tivo only records new showings no matter what time they're on. Many times I see both red lights on, meaning both tuners are recording, this is also a very handy feature not found on our DVDRs.
I also setup things like Nightly Business Report and BBC world news, both from PBS. I have them setup to keep recording the next day over the previous days show. That way if I want to watch todays show it's always there waiting for me. Since it's always recording 2 live TV buffers I figure it might as well record something I'm interested in.

I have them setup to keep recording the next day over the previous days show. That way if I want to watch todays show it's always there waiting for me.How did you do that? Is there a specific setting other than telling it to only keep 1 "episode".

How did you do that? Is there a specific setting other than telling it to only keep 1 "episode".That's it.

If you set a news program as keep one, the news for current day will always replace the news from the previous day.

Each day, my TiVo records news from CNNHD, market news from CNBCHD, and regional sports news from CSNDCHD, replacing the recordings from the day before. On most days, I don't have time to watch the news, but when I want it, it's always there.

Bfdtv is correct and I suppose one could say it's not actually recording over the previous days because all it does is put the previous days in the deleted folder(where you could watch it until it's finally deleted when it needs the space). Your favorite local daily news would also be a good program to record in this way. I figure as long as the Tivo is recording all the time it might as well be something I might actually watch. Just set them up low priority so if space is needed by a favorite show it will record over it.
With a Tivo there is no excuse to ever say, nothing is on TV:D

With a Tivo there is no excuse to ever say, nothing is on TV:DThe only real issue people have with it is the $600 up-front cost for a box with lifetime service. I find it interesting that many people won't bite on the TiVo HD because of that, but they are willing to buy 2 SD-DVD recorders with different remotes at $300 a pop to get 2-tuner functionality. I guess $600 spent as two $300 chunks is not as painful. For anyone headed down that path, the TiVo HD is an affordable alternative.

One reason one person gave recently was that he didn't want anyone knowing what he watched.

If they really do that, I can kinda see his point - although I'm used to it myself and it doesn't bother me that much (just a little - I don't watch anything that's gonna get me in any kind of trouble - there's nothing like that on TV, anyway. I'm actually a lot more disturbed by the government having access to people's library records), because my Dish tuner phones out everyday and tells them that. If I don't let it do that, they charge me $5.00 a month for the 'priviledge'. That's the part that really bugs me.

Even if they're just using it for marketing reasons, I can see someone not being too keen on them charging you a fee, and then selling your info to mailing lists or whatever on top of it. I know it's reality and it's not ever going to change, but for some people it's the principal.

Even if they're just using it for marketing reasons, I can see someone not being too keen on them charging you a fee, and then selling your info to mailing lists or whatever on top of it. I know it's reality and it's not ever going to change, but for some people it's the principal.As noted in Kelson's response:

The default status for every [TiVo] customer is "opt neutral" unless they call to change it. With opt-neutral, the programs you record and the commercials you skip get reported anonymously to TiVo during the nightly service connection. This information is aggregated for tens of thousands of users, and then sold to advertisers so they can see what programs TiVo users are watching and what commercials are most effective (get skipped the most/least). All this information is reported anonymously so there is never any link to you or your DVR.
If this bothers you, you can call TiVo to "opt out" and no information on recorded programs and skipped commercials is reported period.

Cable and satellite companies don't allow you to opt out with their boxes, but TiVo does.

The only real issue people have with it is the $600 up-front cost for a box with lifetime service. I find it interesting that many people won't bite on the TiVo HD because of that ...

That lifetime service is dependent on TiVo staying in business, and in this economy, that seems fairly risky.

That lifetime service is dependent on TiVo staying in business, and in this economy, that seems fairly risky.
And "Lifetime" is the lifetime of the original machine, not the owner.

"Lifetime Service" defined here. (https://www3.tivo.com/buytivo/tivopriceplans/items/plandtls_S00031_ajaxpopup.html)

Limited warranty defined here (https://www3.tivo.com/buytivo/dvrlimitedwarranty.html)... covers original machine or any replacement for the same 1-year period, i.e., not extended if replaced or repaired.

That lifetime service is dependent on TiVo staying in business, and in this economy, that seems fairly risky.Risky?

Excerpt from TiVo's Q4 Earnings Call from March 2nd: (http://seekingalpha.com/article/123687-tivo-inc-q4-2009-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1)Thomas Rogers, CEO:

Good afternoon everyone. Fiscal 2009 was an impressive year for Tivo as it marked the most financially successful year in the history of the company. We recorded our first adjusted EBITDA and net income positive year and would have done so even without the EchoStar litigation proceeds.

In fact, we recorded our sixth straight quarter of adjusted EBITDA profitability and ended the year with a strong balance sheet of over $200 million in cash, no debt and improved cash flow. Certainly this is an enviable position to be in considering the current economic environment. More importantly, these results were achieved while maintaining our clear focus on advancing our long term growth drivers and future prospects.

Quickly touching on the economy for a moment, there is no doubt that all facets of consumer spending have been adversely affected by the lingering recession, including the consumer electronic industry, and we're not sure when the environment's going to improve.

Despite this gloomy backdrop though, our business strategy coupled with the recent steps to reduce our cost structure have proven effective. As of year end, the company is on a solid financial footing to help it weather the storm and further our many strategic growth initiatives.

This past year, we also successfully protected our intellectual property. Our litigation with EchoStar has entered the final enforcement stage. We have won this case and received nearly $105 million in initial damages from EchoStar's infringement of our time warp patent, and we believe they continue to infringe our patent and violate the injunction issued by the District Court requiring them to disable the DVR functionality in their infringing models...

...

Additionally, we continue to work on our new Direct TV HD DVR. The new HD DVR will include many popular Tivo broadband features and will be immediately accessible to Direct TV's entire national customer base on day one of the launch. We have a very successful history with Direct TV and those subscribers are some of our most loyal customers.

And "Lifetime" is the lifetime of the original machine, not the owner.

"Lifetime Service" defined here. (https://www3.tivo.com/buytivo/tivopriceplans/items/plandtls_S00031_ajaxpopup.html)Does any other DVD manufacturer guarantee the product for the lifetime of the owner? I would like to see a DVD recorder with that guarantee. ;)

TiVo will move lifetime service to a replacement of the same make and model even after the warranty expires.

The only real issue people have with it is the $600 up-front cost for a box with lifetime service. I find it interesting that many people won't bite on the TiVo HD because of that, but they are willing to buy 2 SD-DVD recorders with different remotes at $300 a pop to get 2-tuner functionality. I guess $600 spent as two $300 chunks is not as painful. For anyone headed down that path, the TiVo HD is an affordable alternative.

Maybe some of the resistance is not the actual dollar amount, but the fact that you're parting with the money in exchange for a promise from TiVO to provide service for an indefinite period. You buy two DVDRs, they're tangible hardware that sits on a shelf, you own them, you have total control over what you do with them. Same reason why some of us resist music downloads (aside from DRM and low bit-rate sound-quality issues) and want to buy the CD.

One reason one person gave recently was that he didn't want anyone knowing what he watched. <snip!> Even if they're just using it for marketing reasons, I can see someone not being too keen on them charging you a fee, and then selling your info to mailing lists or whatever on top of it. I know it's reality and it's not ever going to change, but for some people it's the principal.

I hadn't thought about that angle. And I'm kinda paranoid like Gene Hackman in "Enemy of the State" look careless.....