Looking into buying a Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD and wondering how long it should last with no maintenance or repair.

Is there something inherent about plasma sets that don't last as long as LCD or other technologies?

Thanks!
Kevin

No one knows the really long term reliability of these products since they haven't been around that long but the shorter term (5-6 years) reliability between LCD, Plasma, and CRT has been similar according to data of thousands of users collected by Consumer Reports.

I'm sure that you can find plenty of anecdotal evidence to the contrary and these people never fail to respond to any mention of Consumer Reports.:rolleyes:

Better than an older DLP though? My brothers 3 year old Samsung DLP set went into the shop and needed a new bulb and new control panel which he isn't spending money on and just getting a new one that he wants to last. Thats why I am asking. I'm assuming/hoping these newer technologies have improved since than. Also, there is no bulb replacement every coupel years or anything like that with Plasma, right?

My 5 year old Philips Plasma is still going strong. When not in use I turn it off completely, it is not left on stand by mode.

You hear manufacturer's "accelerated aging" claims of 60,000, then 100,000 hours for the panels before they go dim. I would take those with a grain of salt, like Epson's famous ink-fading claims of 27 years.

Most of the older plasmas are Fujitsus and Pioneers. The Pioneer owners have had a few problems with power supplies, which sounds about right. Power supply problems are more serviceable than a dim panel, and are a more likely failure mode in any aging electronic device.

I would expect a new plasma set to last until it is obsolete. Certainly there will be early failures, but the vast majority will be still working many years from now.

Better than an older DLP though? My brothers 3 year old Samsung DLP set went into the shop and needed a new bulb and new control panel which he isn't spending money on and just getting a new one that he wants to last. Thats why I am asking. I'm assuming/hoping these newer technologies have improved since than. Also, there is no bulb replacement every coupel years or anything like that with Plasma, right?

DLP had a terrible track record for reliability and it makes sense when you consider how they work. I don't expect any of the other display technologies to have those type of issues.

I don't care about "Obsolete"...what my brother is talking about (its for him) is the kind of life our grandparents TV had growing up...like the set my grandma had for like 15 years and was still kicking just fine....

I know what you mean about the reliability of the old TVs. I have a Sony 30" CRT that I bought in the 90s and it is still going strong. I just bought my first plasma last week and I'm still breaking mine in. I hope it will give me just as many years as the CRT. It seems to me that electronics just don't last like they use to. I have a walkman and cd player that are almost a decade old and they still work. I have a couple of mp3 players purchased recently from different manufacturers that died after a year.

Yeah sometimes I think we get caught up so much in the technology that we forget about the reliability. Many have gotten used to computer style purchasing where it's "obsolete" in a couple years and I think this is a bad message to send to manufacturers where they can build a set that will only last a couple years as long as its the latest and greatest in terms of tech.

My Mom was using her 1971 Quasar until a year ago. Finally gave out (the tuner, and power supply).

My Mom was using her 1971 Quasar until a year ago. Finally gave out (the tuner, and power supply).

Now that's what I'm talking about! lol. We had a Quasar growing up ( I am 36). I think it was a radio shack brand? or maybe a panasonic brand? I forget, but it lasted a LONG time with no problems.

I've got a Panny ED nearing 5 years old, an LG nearing 3 years and another Panasonic just over a year and none of them have missed a beat. There is nothing inherent in plasma technology that makes it any more reliable/unreliable than any other tv....overall they are rated on par with lcd and above rear/front projection as far as reliability goes. The more simple an electronic component is the more reliable they tend to be...any time you have something as complex as a modern HDTV you have more potential for things going wrong. Just the way it is. ;)

My Mom was using her 1971 Quasar until a year ago. Finally gave out (the tuner, and power supply).


only 29 years of shelf life??? Geez,they really did not make them to last back then,did they??;)

Samsung Plasma going strong coming up on 7 years! Still looks good, not a newer 1080p unit, but still looks good. I have it in my home office on the wall.

Also have a Samsung LCD past 3 years, great TV too, although did have a power supply fail in the first year, they replaced it, but the Plasma hasn't been touched.

only 29 years of shelf life??? Geez,they really did not make them to last back then,did they??;)Back then, "they" were us, as in U-S-A.

"Quasar" was kind of like the Motorola "Kuro" of its day.

My friend still has his first generation Panasonic Plasma. He paid like 8 grand for it when it first came out. No problems at all. This is still working like a charm.

You hear manufacturer's "accelerated aging" claims of 60,000, then 100,000 hours for the panels before they go dim. I would take those with a grain of salt, like Epson's famous ink-fading claims of 27 years.

Most of the older plasmas are Fujitsus and Pioneers. The Pioneer owners have had a few problems with power supplies, which sounds about right. Power supply problems are more serviceable than a dim panel, and are a more likely failure mode in any aging electronic device.

If you look at the lower number, 60,000 hours, that's more than 20 years of life based on 8 hours of watching every single day. (I'm just talking about dimming of the TV here. Other problems may arise, such as the power supply issues already mentioned).

Even if you assume that number is doubled for marketing purposes, that's still 10 years of use based on 8 hours of watching every day. I don't know what your viewing habits are like, but I certainly don't put 8 hours on my TV every day, so in theory it should last even longer.

I don't know of any reason to think a plasma TV won't last as long as an LCD TV. By the time you need a new one (not want) you will probably be looking at some technology that's either just now coming onto the scene (OLED for example) or something that hasn't showed up yet at all.

My friend still has a 2001 Panasonic plasma. Good as new. No IR/burn-in.

All the ones i've seen are expected to last 100,000 hours, which is like 10 years non stop running - how much truth there is i couldnt say, But i think they will last you as long as you treat them well.
http://www.imagehunt.info/nytrolic/pixel4.JPG
http://www.imagehunt.info/nytrolic/pixel3.JPG

As a side note, Are Mack warranties any good?

If you look at the lower number, 60,000 hours, that's more than 20 years of life based on 8 hours of watching every single day. (I'm just talking about dimming of the TV here. Other problems may arise, such as the power supply issues already mentioned).

Even if you assume that number is doubled for marketing purposes, that's still 10 years of use based on 8 hours of watching every day. I don't know what your viewing habits are like, but I certainly don't put 8 hours on my TV every day, so in theory it should last even longer.

I don't know of any reason to think a plasma TV won't last as long as an LCD TV. By the time you need a new one (not want) you will probably be looking at some technology that's either just now coming onto the scene (OLED for example) or something that hasn't showed up yet at all.

I'm interested in the dimming aspect of plasma myself. I own one (PX80) but the lcd bigots that I work with claim that my picture is dimming every hour I watch it. Another question for this thread might be, how long before my plasma starts to dim? I don't really understand what the 60,000 hour claim means. Does it mean it dims after that time or is completely dead at that point?

I believe that's the half-life rating. So if we're assuming that 60,000 hours is an accurate half-life, then the display will be capable of half of its maximum brightness by that point. You can generally compensate for the issue by increasing the proper settings to bump the brightness back up.

You can tell your LCD bigots that their hearing is also degrading every second of every day. Do they expect to be deaf in a few years?

I'm interested in the dimming aspect of plasma myself. I own one (PX80) but the lcd bigots that I work with claim that my picture is dimming every hour I watch it. Another question for this thread might be, how long before my plasma starts to dim? I don't really understand what the 60,000 hour claim means. Does it mean it dims after that time or is completely dead at that point?

The backlight on their LCD is dimming every minute they watch it too. My RPCRT guns are fading, etc, etc. It's how consumable items work, but it's going to take many...many years of use to become significant.

At one point I read a study where they rapid-aged displays a couple years back and the CCFL LCD backlights "dimmed" faster than the plasma over the study. Maybe I'll dig for that.

As a side note, Are Mack warranties any good?

We try to have good products. Some people wont ever be happy but most of the warranty customers are usually satisfied.
you can look at our reseller ratings here
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Mack_Camera_Video_Service_The_Mack_Camera_Store

or other threads about our service here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1075413
and here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1088544

Plus I believe we are the only warranty company that actively participates in AVS Forum.

Thanks

I'm interested in the dimming aspect of plasma myself. I own one (PX80) but the lcd bigots that I work with claim that my picture is dimming every hour I watch it. Another question for this thread might be, how long before my plasma starts to dim? I don't really understand what the 60,000 hour claim means. Does it mean it dims after that time or is completely dead at that point?

I believe that's the half-life rating. So if we're assuming that 60,000 hours is an accurate half-life, then the display will be capable of half of its maximum brightness by that point. You can generally compensate for the issue by increasing the proper settings to bump the brightness back up.

You can tell your LCD bigots that their hearing is also degrading every second of every day. Do they expect to be deaf in a few years?

The backlight on their LCD is dimming every minute they watch it too. My RPCRT guns are fading, etc, etc. It's how consumable items work, but it's going to take many...many years of use to become significant.

At one point I read a study where they rapid-aged displays a couple years back and the CCFL LCD backlights "dimmed" faster than the plasma over the study. Maybe I'll dig for that.

That's correct that the TV life is rated as a "half-life". The 60,000 or 100,000 hour number (or whatever number) manufacturers use is the number of hours they expect the TV can be used before it reaches its half-life. The explanation is also correct. When a TV is new it's capable of producing a certain level of brightness. Every moment the TV is on, the picture becomes gradually dimmer and dimmer until it's only able to produce half the brightness it was originally capable of. It's reached it's half-life at that point and it's now considered to be time to replace it. However, as was also noted, this can be compensated for by adjusting the TV's picture settings appropriately as needed as the TV ages, which will extend the life of the set even longer.

All of this applies to plasmas as well as LCD's, so be sure to point this out to your LCD friends. They're in the exact same boat you're in, except they don't seem to know it. The "helpful and courteous" sales staff at BB (or wherever they bought their LCDs) probably forgot to mention this to them as they were explaining how plasmas will eventually need to be recharged and LCD's will make sure the Sun comes up every day. ;)

Now that's what I'm talking about! lol. We had a Quasar growing up ( I am 36). I think it was a radio shack brand? or maybe a panasonic brand? I forget, but it lasted a LONG time with no problems.
Sorry to tell you but those days are over - electronics now are made to last 5-6-7 years, and thats done on purpose. There was a time that you bought a TV and you knew that thing was going to last you "forever".
But now greed rules - and its not just TVs its all over - I've had good blenders and toaster ovens break after only a couple of years, where back in the day they would last 15-20 years.

We try to have good products. Some people wont ever be happy but most of the warranty customers are usually satisfied.
you can look at our reseller ratings here
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Mack_Camera_Video_Service_The_Mack_Camera_Store

or other threads about our service here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1075413
and here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1088544

Plus I believe we are the only warranty company that actively participates in AVS Forum.

Thanks

Thanks for the response. The fact that you are here on the forums made the decision to get the warranty. If there are any problems, I will come straight to you :) This is for my brothers TV by the way, and he is right in PA, only about 1.5hr from you. It's a Pioneer 5020FD which he bought from East Coast TV's, also in NJ. They are charging him $249 for a 3 year in home warranty, which I told him to talk them down as that seems about $100 too much. He is getting a nice price on the TV though ($1849 which includes a free wall mount and free white-glove delivery).

Also, is the "in-home" service really that? Do they really come to your house and fix it right there, or does it have to be taken away or shipped most of the time?

Thats what we are here for!

Our in home service is really in home. We will send a technician to your house alot of times its a video board or input issue or sound issues which can easily be fixed right by you. If its a screen issue its more then likely going to have to go with the tech back to the service center.

I still use my EDTV Panasonic 2003 model TH-42PA20. No problems, picture still looks great. :)

ps- I will probably replace it with the new G series in the next few months..

You hear manufacturer's "accelerated aging" claims of 60,000, then 100,000 hours for the panels before they go dim. I would take those with a grain of salt, like Epson's famous ink-fading claims of 27 years.

Most of the older plasmas are Fujitsus and Pioneers. The Pioneer owners have had a few problems with power supplies, which sounds about right. Power supply problems are more serviceable than a dim panel, and are a more likely failure mode in any aging electronic device.

Here, "growing dim" simply means reaching 50% of its brightness when brand new. Practically speaking, if you do the math, you will see that this really means that you likely will never reach the point of having a picture that is too dim. I believe that the old CRT sets had a similar dimming over time, and that was never an issue with those sets!

Is decay linear to the amount of brightness selected? Meaning if you reduce brightness by say 30% do you get 30% more time before the set reaches half brightness?

Is decay linear to the amount of brightness selected? Meaning if you reduce brightness by say 30% do you get 30% more time before the set reaches half brightness?

Let me preface this by saying I don't know for sure but I will venture an educated guess. I assume that it would not be linear based on the longevity of things like incandescent or halogen light bulbs (different technologies obviously, but I assume the principles are the same.

When running a halogen bulb at 85% of full brightness, you actually double it's usable life. So by reducing it's usage by 15%, you gain 100% of usable time.

I would assume the same principle applies to Plasma TVs but I am certainly open for correction.

Is decay linear to the amount of brightness selected? Meaning if you reduce brightness by say 30% do you get 30% more time before the set reaches half brightness?

The drop in brightness for a plasma is not linear. The steepest drop in brightness occurs at the earliest stage. This is why plasma TVs are most susceptible to image retention (actually uneven phosphor wear) when plasma TVs are brand new and why they recommend not watching static images, shows with side or top/bottom bars, etc. until after a few hundred hours.

After this initial period, the drop in brightness is very gradual.

As for the whole half-brightness thing, I wouldn't worry about it. My Fujitsu plasma will be 7 yrs old tomorrow (bought on 2/18/02). I've had that TV running for 8 hrs+ virtually every day. It should have somewhere around 20,000 hours on it and, since it's an older plasma, is only rated to 30,000 hours half-life.

Despite this, I don't really notice any drop off in brightness at all. I'm sure it's dimmer than when new, but I can always boost contrast/brightness if needed. This TV has been 100% absolutely flawless for 7 yrs and it's seen it's fair share of abuse. I've played thousands of hours of video games, watched thousands of hours of 2.35:1 AR movies w/ top and bottom bars, etc. and do not notice any burn in. My son threw a solid plastic block at the screen and it didn't break or scratch.

In my experience, my plasma TV has been extremely durable.