As a 1st time FP/HDTV buyer, I have read sooo many forum comments hoping to educate myself. Thanks to all on this site as it has been VERY informative. I'm undecided about my choices, and hope to get some help here. My viewing distance is aprox. 12 ft. and only for my wife and myself. I'm off axis 20-25 degrees she is dead center. The question I have is whether to pay for a better PQ in a 50" size, or accept a bit less PQ quality and get a 58-60" screen. I'm looking at the Pioneer Pro 111FD, 5020, and 6020. I'm also considering the Pannasonic 800U in 50' and 58" as well as the 850U in 50" and 58". My price search today found the 50" & 58" 850 and the 50" & 58" 800U for . These are all Internet prices. BTW, I have just "noticed" the LG plasmas, but haen't given that barnd any research so far. From what I've read the Kuros get the best PQ reviews with the Pannasonics a "close" 2nd. I understand that both the Pioneer and the Pannasonic sets have either very limited or very extensive adjustments depending on the models. I would consider the adjustments as a plus? I just wonder should I go for the bigger screen size given my viewing distance (which is not going to change) or go for the best PQ? Yes price is a factor. I also, wonder about buying the Pioneer since they are evidently going out of the TV business. How will this impact warranty and post warranty service? Also, since I have waited so long to do this, would it be worth my while to wait on the new 2009 Pannasonic line (Neo-PDP???). I will use this for: SD & HD broadcasts: HBO, sports, network television and BD and DVD movies (Netflix). I would also like to view still photographs, and perhaps connect my laptop or desktop occasionally. Thanks for any shared wisdom and/or experience.

No other PDP comes close to the Pioneer Kuro line of PDPs, Elites give you the most adjustments and best PQ possible, including Pure mode which is only on the Elites, Elites also come with a 2 year warranty "which will be honored by Pioneer", post warranty parts and service will be available since Pioneer is still going to be in business, just not in the PDP market, they are restructuring their business model. The new Neo PDPs from Panny will be real nice "and their top of the line models will be pricey initially", but still not in the Kuro class. If price where not an option I say get a Kuro, you will be glad you did, matter of fact I just ordered a PRO151FD, which will replace my fabulous PRO110FD in m living room, the PRO110FD will be moved to my bedroom, which should keep me happy for the next 5-10 years.

OK. Given your preference for the Pioneer, what would be your opinion to get the Pro111FD @ 50" vs the 6020 @ 60". As I said before, I am sitting 12-13 feet away and due to the layout of our room, I won't be able to sit any closer. Also, the price I saw today for the Pro111FD is for the 6020. I'm unable to see these 2 sets side by side in my market :-(

Sorry for the price quotes. I'm new to the forum, but I'll remember the rule. Let's just say that the 6020 is quite a bit more than what I can buy the Pro111 for.

The 6020 is a fantastic PDP, nothing in Panasonic's or Samsung's lineup comes close, including their up and coming PDP's, you will be happy for many years to come.

The 6020 is a fantastic PDP, nothing in Panasonic's or Samsung's lineup comes close, including their up and coming PDP's, you will be happy for many years to come.

You really should stop saying that.

You really should stop saying that.why is that, every professional reviewer would say the same thing. Nothing against Panny or Sammy PDP's, they are fine PDPs but are in a different class to the Kuros, it is FACT.

OK. Given your preference for the Pioneer, what would be your opinion to get the Pro111FD @ 50" vs the 6020 @ 60". As I said before, I am sitting 12-13 feet away and due to the layout of our room, I won't be able to sit any closer. Also, the price I saw today for the Pro111FD is for the 6020. I'm unable to see these 2 sets side by side in my market :-(


My suggestion would be for the larger 6020 over the 111. That said, the pricing I am seeing puts the 6020 at a $1200-1300 premium to the pro-111fd.. I am comparing the pricing I am seeing at magnolia/BB for the pro-111fd and costco's pricing on the 6020 - both are instore pricing.

If you can afford the price increase, go for the 6020. I would look at the 58" panny if the 6020 is too much. The 58" panny can be had for less money than the pro-111fd. Your seating distance is just too much for a 50" display IMHO and the extra screen size will be worth more than some calibration settings

why is that, every professional reviewer would say the same thing. Nothing against Panny or Sammy PDP's, they are fine PDPs but are in a different class to the Kuros, it is FACT.

Are you aware that one of your so-called "professional" reviewers rated the
800u higher than the 5020?

Also, its kind of bragging a little, don't you think?

when people upgrade, they upgrade for a reason. size, performance, etc. your main priority must be one or the other, so let that make the decision for you. out of the sets you mentioned, in my case, id go for the 6020. i want bigger size foremost, and would be more noticable than advanced tweaking options. not that i dont want that too. thats why im waiting to see what happens wiht the 151 in the near future.

At 12-13' I can not see you satisfied with a 50", I believe you would kick yourself. The next item to worry about is the price. What ever you can afford in this order, the 6020, 850u, then 800u. A lot people put the 800u ahead of the 850u but my research into the 850u owners' thread put them a little more giddy about their purchases than does the 800u owners and there are more adjustments with the 850U than the 800U. As for the 2009's It's too early to tell but I'm banking on the Panny's being better and no more pricey than the current 2008's, but I'm offering no guarantees, but that's what I'm waiting for.

Thanks to all for your replies. Sorry for the delayed response but I had to leave the house with my wife for a while. I'm wishing that I could bring myself to pay the premium for the 6020. However, I am also going to have to buy a BD player, a new AV receiver, a new piece of furniture for all of this and a 5.1 (or some other configuration) speaker set up, and various other peripherals. So, maybe the Panny is the way to go. I've read that the 800U has a pretty good PQ "out of the box" thanks to THX. I read somewhere that the THX setting would satisfy "many" viewers w/o the expense of calibration. Does that mean that the 800U can't be calibrated? Also, I do wonder if the "Viera Cast" feature on the 850 might have some merit as they add more content. Lastly, if I can't justify the cost of the 6020 now, would waiting for the next generation (2009s) of Pannies be worth the wait to get a little better quality in a larger screen?

LabLuvr, if you plan on watching a lot of BLU-RAY movies which currently is the best picture quality available for consumers then a discontinued Pioneer Kuro would be the best option. The Panasonic 800U and 850U series has a flicker problem at 48HZ. If you really like Panasonic and you plan on watching a lot of BLU-RAY's then wait for the Panasonic Z1 or V10 models to come out. Accoridng to the follwoing article Panasonic representative claims the new models fix the flicker problem with 1080P/24 source material like BLU-RAY discs. All of the Pioneer 1080P displays properly handle 1080P/24 with no problems.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10137076-100.html

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=1505092&postcount=675

I do remember reading something about that, but there's only so much a newbie like me can assimilate. I do intend to watch movies quite a bit. As a Netflix subscriber, I enjoy watching movies in the comfort of my home. I currently miss the full theater experience, but public venues have become very costly and the audience isn't very considerate. Right now we have a DVD/SACD player on a Sony CRT with an older Dolby Pro-Logic receiver with 5.0 set up (no sub). Is the 48HZ flicker problem only on Blue Ray discs or is it on DVD as well? I do plan on getting a BD player, in fact I am trying to learn what the benefits are of the "Live" technology. I have a Comcast 6.0 MB Internet connection. Does the flicker issue also affect the online play? From the other posts to this thread it sounds like I really should go with a 58" or bigger screen. The 6020 is so much more than the 58" Pannies! Maybe I should just wait for the new "improved" Pannies. Drat! My wife and I want to do this NOW!

Drat! My wife and I want to do this NOW!

just go get the 58" panny from costco for 500 less than 3000. I am sure you will be more than happy with it

I do remember reading something about that, but there's only so much a newbie like me can assimilate. I do intend to watch movies quite a bit. As a Netflix subscriber, I enjoy watching movies in the comfort of my home. I currently miss the full theater experience, but public venues have become very costly and the audience isn't very considerate. Right now we have a DVD/SACD player on a Sony CRT with an older Dolby Pro-Logic receiver with 5.0 set up (no sub). Is the 48HZ flicker problem only on Blue Ray discs or is it on DVD as well? I do plan on getting a BD player, in fact I am trying to learn what the benefits are of the "Live" technology. I have a Comcast 6.0 MB Internet connection. Does the flicker issue also affect the online play? From the other posts to this thread it sounds like I really should go with a 58" or bigger screen. The 6020 is so much more than the 58" Pannies! Maybe I should just wait for the new "improved" Pannies. Drat! My wife and I want to do this NOW!I say get the 6020 and you and the wife will be glad you did, in regards to the price difference, over the long term of the display it is worth it, it's not like you will go out and buy a new Plasma every year, we are talking hundreds of dollars here, not thousands, heck it's only money:D. the black levels alone will make everything look and feel more three dimensional, objects will just pop of that screen.
I was in the same boat as you before I Purchased the PRO110FD last year, am I glad I did, because now every other PDP just looks the same to me, they are all nice, but not like a KURO, that is the reason I just ordered the PRO151FD, took me about a month of debating, but since we are not going to see anything close to a Kuro anytime soon from Panny or Sammy I took the plunge, did not want to regret it not getting it when they are no longer available, heck more peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for me:D

I don't have a Costco here in Savannah, GA. Atlanta is 4-1/2 hrs. away. That said, we always enjoy a visit to Atlanta, our God daughter is at GA Tech! Is that the 800U or the 850 you're referring to?

I don't have a Costco here in Savannah, GA. Atlanta is 4-1/2 hrs. away. That said, we always enjoy a visit to Atlanta, our God daughter is at GA Tech! Is that the 800U or the 850 you're referring to?


I am not sure what model number it is. Costco has their own model numbers that they use. You can order online... that is an option. If something is wrong with it, Costco seems to do returns with a lot of ease to the customer

Cybertec: I do get the $$$ rational. Hopefully, whatever we buy will be in use for 5-10 years. Heck, our Sony CRT is 15 years old! I figure that if the technology really makes this purchase seem outdated in fewer years than I'd like, we'll move it to our bedroom where we really don't watch much TV, but like having one in there just the same. I asked in an earlier post about the calibration issue. Am I correct in my gathering that neither the Panny 800U or the 6020 can be calibrated? If this is true, should that be a deal breeaker?

Be aware the the Panny 800U is well known for its blu-ray flicker problem. If blu-ray is in your future, then get the 6020.

I chose the 5020 over the 58pz800U since side by side, the Kuro was in another league. The 58" was just $200 more but I would rather have a great 50" than an average 58".

I correct in my gathering that neither the Panny 800U or the 6020 can be calibrated? If this is true, should that be a deal breeaker?

Both sets can be calibrated, the 6020 cannot be calibrated as much as the 151 or 111, but the 5020 & 6020 CAN be calibrated.

I do remember reading something about that, but there's only so much a newbie like me can assimilate. I do intend to watch movies quite a bit. As a Netflix subscriber, I enjoy watching movies in the comfort of my home. I currently miss the full theater experience, but public venues have become very costly and the audience isn't very considerate. Right now we have a DVD/SACD player on a Sony CRT with an older Dolby Pro-Logic receiver with 5.0 set up (no sub). Is the 48HZ flicker problem only on Blue Ray discs or is it on DVD as well? I do plan on getting a BD player, in fact I am trying to learn what the benefits are of the "Live" technology. I have a Comcast 6.0 MB Internet connection. Does the flicker issue also affect the online play? From the other posts to this thread it sounds like I really should go with a 58" or bigger screen. The 6020 is so much more than the 58" Pannies! Maybe I should just wait for the new "improved" Pannies. Drat! My wife and I want to do this NOW!

Most people do not realize the Panasonic 800U and 850U has a flicker problem since they keep the Panasonic at 60HZ. It is only when a 1080p/24 signal is being received and the 48HZ is turned on in the Panasonic menu that the unwatchable flicker issue occurs. Watching BLU-RAY's on the Panasonic still looks good at 60HZ setting but the image has more of a video look. Basically the 48HZ 24p mode is unwatchable do to the flicker problem on the current 800U and 850U. Now on the Pioneer Kuro a 1080p/24 signal is properly refreshed on the screen at 72HZ with no problems. All the Pioneer 1080P's will do a reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD's and other sources that are film based. Refreshing film sources on the screen at 48HZ, 72Hz and higher multiplies of 24 just makes the picture look more natural like film and camera pans are smooth without the judder. Pioneer was ahead of its time being the very first flat panel on the market that properly handles 1080P/24. Every single Pioneer 1080P display every made since 2006 properly handles 1080P/24 signals.

Whatever brand you get just dont get a 50" display.

A 50 incher shrinks really really fast !!!!!!!!!!

I have the 6020, very happy with it, but if I had not purchased the 6020 I would have gotten the 58" Panny (my second choice).
Im sure some will disagree with me but as 60" Kuro owner if I had to pick between the 50" Kuro and the 58" Panny my pick would be the Panny.

You mentioned you dont have a Costco in your area,, Costco will ship to you, just make sure to get "white glove delivery" if you have anything from anyone shipped to you.

Cheers
Davyo

I don't have a Costco here in Savannah, GA. Atlanta is 4-1/2 hrs. away. That said, we always enjoy a visit to Atlanta, our God daughter is at GA Tech! Is that the 800U or the 850 you're referring to?


It is the 800U that Costco has...........

Cybertec: I do get the $$$ rational. Hopefully, whatever we buy will be in use for 5-10 years. Heck, our Sony CRT is 15 years old! I figure that if the technology really makes this purchase seem outdated in fewer years than I'd like, we'll move it to our bedroom where we really don't watch much TV, but like having one in there just the same. I asked in an earlier post about the calibration issue. Am I correct in my gathering that neither the Panny 800U or the 6020 can be calibrated? If this is true, should that be a deal breaker?
both can be calibrated professionally.

Well, now I'm back to confused:( I generally opt for quality over size). Having said that I realize that in a visual issue, size and quality are both extremely important. If I want to do something in the next 1-3 months, it appears as though I need to decide on a couple of things. Do I want to pay more to get the larger screen size and do I want to pay even more to get the quality (Pioneer) I really want. Part of me wants to get the Pro111FD (50") as I know it's a great panel. Also the price is acceptable to me for the quality. I mean under $3K for that quality seems pretty fair. But, if the distance (12-13') I'm dealing with isn't going to allow me to appreciate the quality , then perhaps I should get the bigger panel. It's just hard to pay an extra $800 bucks for the 6020 vs. the Pro111 knowing that the 6020 isn't as good. Given the info about the Pannies' flicker issues, I assume that if I want to move on this soon, and avoid the flicker, I'm going to need to decide on which Pioneer I should buy. HELP!

I don't have a Costco here in Savannah, GA. Atlanta is 4-1/2 hrs. away. That said, we always enjoy a visit to Atlanta, our God daughter is at GA Tech! Is that the 800U or the 850 you're referring to?
800u

Well, now I'm back to confused:( I generally opt for quality over size). Having said that I realize that in a visual issue, size and quality are both extremely important. If I want to do something in the next 1-3 months, it appears as though I need to decide on a couple of things. Do I want to pay more to get the larger screen size and do I want to pay even more to get the quality (Pioneer) I really want. Part of me wants to get the Pro111FD (50") as I know it's a great panel. Also the price is acceptable to me for the quality. I mean under $3K for that quality seems pretty fair. But, if the distance (12-13') I'm dealing with isn't going to allow me to appreciate the quality , then perhaps I should get the bigger panel. It's just hard to pay an extra $800 bucks for the 6020 vs. the Pro111 knowing that the 6020 isn't as good. Given the info about the Pannies' flicker issues, I assume that if I want to move on this soon, and avoid the flicker, I'm going to need to decide on which Pioneer I should buy. HELP!just buy the 6020 and put your mind at ease, you will not be disappointed.

Whatever brand you get just dont get a 50" display.

A 50 incher shrinks really really fast !!!!!!!!!!

I have the 6020, very happy with it, but if I had not purchased the 6020 I would have gotten the 58" Panny (my second choice).
Im sure some will disagree with me but as 60" Kuro owner if I had to pick between the 50" Kuro and the 58" Panny my pick would be the Panny.

You mentioned you dont have a Costco in your area,, Costco will ship to you, just make sure to get "white glove delivery" if you have anything from anyone shipped to you.

Cheers
Davyo

+1

From my own experience, 50" does shrink pretty fast. After the end of the first week, you will wish you bought the larger set.

The current EURO Panasonic 850 sets (I have one), but not the US models, have frame doubling "intelligent frame creation", and the 24P flicker is completely gone. I expect all the new TVs to have this.

Should you still buy a Pioneer ? Read all of this entire thread for the whole range of view points, + and -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1117484

Well, now I'm back to confused:( I generally opt for quality over size). Having said that I realize that in a visual issue, size and quality are both extremely important. If I want to do something in the next 1-3 months, it appears as though I need to decide on a couple of things. Do I want to pay more to get the larger screen size and do I want to pay even more to get the quality (Pioneer) I really want. Part of me wants to get the Pro111FD (50") as I know it's a great panel. Also the price is acceptable to me for the quality. I mean under $3K for that quality seems pretty fair. But, if the distance (12-13') I'm dealing with isn't going to allow me to appreciate the quality , then perhaps I should get the bigger panel. It's just hard to pay an extra $800 bucks for the 6020 vs. the Pro111 knowing that the 6020 isn't as good. Given the info about the Pannies' flicker issues, I assume that if I want to move on this soon, and avoid the flicker, I'm going to need to decide on which Pioneer I should buy. HELP!

If it were me, I would get the 58" panny and not give it a second thought. You need the size more than the quality. Going from a 50 to a 58" or 60" is a HUGE improvement. the 50" will not be anough regardless of the quality, so I wouldn't even consider the pro-111fd. It comes down to the 58" panny or the 60" 6020... is the quality worth about $1500 difference in price for the pioneer? That is the question you need to answer

Once again, I have to express my thanks to all :-) Yes, I'll read the thread Pepster. I'm willing to invest some time to help make a good/wise decision. I have a good deal of respect for Panasonic products as I have used various ones over the years in my professional endeavors. While most people only know them for their consumer products, they have been a serious force with the professional products for years, esp. in CCTV/Video. Having siad that, it's hard to imagine that the following that the Kuros have garnered can be wrong.

At 12' I would not consider a 50" regardless of how amazing a picture it afforded. If you can move your seating closer, then that'd be a different story.

I'm 6.5' from a 50" PRO-111FD and I'm very happy with it, but at nearly double the distance, no way.

If it were me, I would get the 58" panny and not give it a second thought. You need the size more than the quality. Going from a 50 to a 58" or 60" is a HUGE improvement. the 50" will not be anough regardless of the quality, so I wouldn't even consider the pro-111fd. It comes down to the 58" panny or the 60" 6020... is the quality worth about $1500 difference in price for the pioneer? That is the question you need to answer


Agreed, as small as 50" is, picture quality aint guna matter much at the OP's stated seating distance.

The difference between 50" vs 58"/60" is dramatic to say the least.

Cheers
Davyo

So, is this "flicker" problem with the Pannies a deal breaker? Is there a work-around? I do really like to watch movies and although it's just DVD now, it will definitely be Blue Ray once I buy the new panel. So, once again, at a 12-13' distance do I pay alot more for the Pioneer to avoid the flicker or is there a work-around for the current Panny 850 or 800U, or do I wait for the new 2009 Pannies?

Whatever brand you get just dont get a 50" display.

A 50 incher shrinks really really fast !!!!!!!!!!
Davyo

Some can't afford the 4K for the 6020.
I got the 5020 and no, I would not settle for a 58/800U

Is there a work-around?
Yes, buy a Pioneer

Well, I must say this has been very informative. Thanks to you all. I'll have to "sleep on it" now. I just don't want to procrastinate so long and then find out that the Pioneers are all gone. I know some think that they are a risky purchase for service concerns given the financial condition of Pioneer. Others feel that there will be a "gold rush" on them to get one of the last great sets. I'll try to sleep without worrying about it..at least until in the morning:confused: I will check back here then to see if there are any more suggestions. Thanks again ya'll ;)

Dare I wait till the new pannys come to decide between a 50" G10 and a 50" Kuro? Will there be that big of a difference between the two? Or should I snap up a Kuro now before they are all gone?

Well, I must say this has been very informative. Thanks to you all. I'll have to "sleep on it" now. I just don't want to procrastinate so long and then find out that the Pioneers are all gone. I know some think that they are a risky purchase for service concerns given the financial condition of Pioneer. Others feel that there will be a "gold rush" on them to get one of the last great sets. I'll try to sleep without worrying about it..at least until in the morning:confused: I will check back here then to see if there are any more suggestions. Thanks again ya'll ;)Don't forget Pioneer is not the only one in financial trouble, so is Panny, closing of 27 factories and laying off 40,000 people is not good news, they are quite a bit bigger than Pioneer and can absorb such a hit a bit easier, but in regards to quality components from PDPs to AVRs to Audio, Panny is behind Pioneer quite a bit.

Some can't afford the 4K for the 6020.
I got the 5020 and no, I would not settle for a 58/800U


Everyone buys a panel for different reasons, some for picture quality alone, some for size alone.

For myself, size and picture quality are about equal when I take into consideration any panel Im looking at.

As a 6020 owner I have seen the 58" Panny and would not be un-happy to own one at all, the Panny puts out a very nice picture.

Cheers
Davyo

The 58" Panny will look great when you get it home.

I bought a 151 last month, if not I would have been happy with the 58 800/850u.

Also at your distance a 63" Samsung will look very good and still be less than a 6020.

The 58" Panny will look great when you get it home.

I bought a 151 last month, if not I would have been happy with the 58 800/850u.

Also at your distance a 63" Samsung will look very good and still be less than a 6020.

Good point, the 63" Samsung is very nice and deserves to be on the shopping list.

Part of me is a little bummed I didnt get the 63" Sammy instead of the 6020.

Cheers
Davyo

Don't forget Pioneer is not the only one in financial trouble, so is Panny, closing of 27 factories and laying off 40,000 people is not good news, they are quite a bit bigger than Pioneer and can absorb such a hit a bit easier, but in regards to quality components from PDPs to AVRs to Audio, Panny is behind Pioneer quite a bit.There's real cause, very real cause of concern for Pioneer to be still in business in the next 12 months. There's no real cause of concern when it comes to Panasonic.

Also, when you state stuff like "nothing doesn't come close", etc. you should probably define "close". The new Panasonic displays will consume less energy and will have brighter output, these are two advantages over Kuros. Just to make an example.

I'm still debating with myself what to do, currently with a Panasonic TH50PHD8UK. I would probably have gone with a Pioneer 10G, had they become available. They won't arrive, so I'm in doubt. At 60" Pioneer 9G power requirements are kind of heavy for my tastes.

At 60" Pioneer 9G power requirements are kind of heavy for my tastes.
Are you serious? You buy all your electronics based on power consumption?

Besides, the 151 is energy star rated and I believe meets the nazis of cali's rediculous 2011 power limiations

So, is this "flicker" problem with the Pannies a deal breaker? Is there a work-around? I do really like to watch movies and although it's just DVD now, it will definitely be Blue Ray once I buy the new panel. So, once again, at a 12-13' distance do I pay alot more for the Pioneer to avoid the flicker or is there a work-around for the current Panny 850 or 800U, or do I wait for the new 2009 Pannies?

The work around is to watch everything at 60HZ on the Panasonic but doing this takes away the advantage of 1080P/24 signals since 3:2 pulldown is added. :)

To the OP, I just had the exact decision to make (last week), with the same needs/requirements.
I had an amazing sony CRT KD34-955XS, but was time to get a bigger tv (flat panel).

My number 1 requirement is PQ, I wanted at least the same PQ (incl. black levels) or better than my sony, but BIG.
There was no way I was going to upgrade just take a step back on the PQ! No compromise.

IMO, the kuro elite 111fd is just got, is the only one who can deliver this and it has, I am amazed by the picture, awesome TV.
But now, I do find it small, the blueray format still has those damn bars above and below, not to mention the 4:3 SD stuff still out there on cable (i don't like the zoom or stretch option).
So the screen does get small fast (for a 12" room).

Now if I could, and if the price difference between a 111 and 151 is a 1000-1500$ diff, I would make the switch to 151. Over 7 years, its and extra ~200$ a year.
If you can find a deal on the 151 (under 5k), you wont regret it, then again, I was unwilling to compromise PQ, maybe you are, then neither is a bad choice.

So, is this "flicker" problem with the Pannies a deal breaker? Is there a work-around? I do really like to watch movies and although it's just DVD now, it will definitely be Blue Ray once I buy the new panel. So, once again, at a 12-13' distance do I pay alot more for the Pioneer to avoid the flicker or is there a work-around for the current Panny 850 or 800U, or do I wait for the new 2009 Pannies?

Also, you should take into consideration the potential for loud buzzing sound on the 6020. I don't care how good the picture is, buzzing would be a deal breaker for me.

To the OP, I just had the exact decision to make (last week), with the same needs/requirements.
I had an amazing sony CRT KD34-955XS, but was time to get a bigger tv (flat panel).

My number 1 requirement is PQ, I wanted at least the same PQ (incl. black levels) or better than my sony, but BIG.
There was no way I was going to upgrade just take a step back on the PQ! No compromise.

IMO, the kuro elite 111fd is just got, is the only one who can deliver this and it has, I am amazed by the picture, awesome TV.
But now, I do find it small, the blueray format still has those damn bars above and below, not to mention the 4:3 SD stuff still out there on cable (i don't like the zoom or stretch option).
So the screen does get small fast (for a 12" room).

Now if I could, and if the price difference between a 111 and 151 is a 1000-1500$ diff, I would make the switch to 151. Over 7 years, its and extra ~200$ a year.
If you can find a deal on the 151 (under 5k), you wont regret it, then again, I was unwilling to compromise PQ, maybe you are, then neither is a bad choice.

That's a lot of money. Plus, your taking a chance that you're going get customer support from defunct company.

From reading post like this and others, I think its clear that we need to pay more attention to helping others to make size and seating distance choices.

I keep reading people buying 50 inch displays and sitting 12-15 feet away and then afterwards regretting doing so.

Also, you should take into consideration the potential for loud buzzing sound on the 6020. I don't care how good the picture is, buzzing would be a deal breaker for me.

My Panny 50pz80u and Sammy 50a550 were both noticeably louder than my 5020, both idling and with bright content.
Just my personal ownership experience in-home.

My Panny 50pz80u and Sammy 50a550 were both noticeably louder than my 5020, both idling and with bright content.
Just my personal ownership experience in-home.

That's what I'm saying. My current Panny doesn't buzz, it hums if I put my ear right next to it in back. I just can't ignore audible buzzing or loud fan noise from 9 feet away.

Also I understand that buzzing is a bigger problem on the 6020 than other Pioneer displays.

No, my 5020 buzzes less than the Panny and Sammy did.
I can only hear it on the rare occasion that my HVAC, fridge, HD-DVR are all of and whatever I am watching goes silent.
6020 could be louder since it takes more juice.

I agree, at 12-15 feet, people should know that a 50" will most likely be too small.
It's a very important point to make for new FP tv buyers, I really only realized this now, with my new FP up on the wall...

I'm at 10-11 feet, I can live with 50" and would not trade it for a 58" 800U. (I would for a 6020).
If I had 12-15' room, I would have to be looking at a 58"+ TV.

To bad as of today, getting both (top PQ and 60") is not really that affordable yet....

I am purchasing a new flat screen for above my fireplace. Seating distance is 15' to 16' and I was leaning toward a 65" 850 Panasonic due to size. Would the Pioneer 60" Elite be worth the down sizing? Budget is not a consideration.
Thanks,

Ray

Note: I cancelled a front projection system for the neater look of the plasma over the fireplace.

Budget is not a consideration

Lucky you:D

Wow I'm about 11-12 feet away from my 111 and I find the size fine. Largest TVs I've ever owned have been 50's and never felt that they were too small.

I am purchasing a new flat screen for above my fireplace. Seating distance is 15' to 16' and I was leaning toward a 65" 850 Panasonic due to size. Would the Pioneer 60" Elite be worth the down sizing? Budget is not a consideration.
Thanks,

Ray

Note: I cancelled a front projection system for the neater look of the plasma over the fireplace.

I would have a tough time making a decision. I would slightly favor the 5" bigger panny if the money didn't matter. when I was looking, the panny was 1400 more than I paid for my 151.

Yes, I am lucky and I appreciate it; I have worked hard and am grateful for what I have.

I think size may win; at least for now it has a slight edge. I am open to everyone's opinion so please express your thoughts.

I also have a 50" Panasonic 700 in our upstairs computer/TV room. We sit about 8' away and it seems about right...but it could be a bit larger?!

Ray

I'm in th same boat...in screen size. I have a 22x14. I sit 8 feet away from a 14 foot width wall. It is 14" from the kitchen. Is 60 too big?

I'm in th same boat...in screen size. I have a 22x14. I sit 8 feet away from a 14 foot width wall. It is 14" from the kitchen. Is 60 too big?

I would not recommend 60 from 8 feet.

As a 6020 owner I have seen the 58" Panny and would not be un-happy to own one at all, the Panny puts out a very nice picture.

The 58" Panny will look great when you get it home.

I bought a 151 last month, if not I would have been happy with the 58 800/850u.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank davyo and GqMagic for being honest and unlike most other Kuro owners on this forum (e.g. cybertec).

As hard as it is to believe, it isn't always Kuro or nothing. If money is no object, then go for the 60" Kuro Elite. But if you're on a budget, then a 58" Panasonic 800U will be a lot more bang for your buck than a 50" Kuro non-Elite (5020). The reason is simple: 8" more screen. That's a lot!

I was in the same boat as the OP around Xmas time and was deciding between the 58" 800U and the 6020 non-Elite. The 6020 non-Elite was $1500 CDN more than the 800U and I compared them both for a long time. In the end, I couldn't justify the picture quality difference to be worth that much money. And going down 8" to the 5020 wasn't even worth considering because I sit 12' away.

I ended up with the 58" 800U and post-calibration, it looks gorgeous. I haven't looked back or had any second thoughts. Yes, the Pioneer Kuro has better picture, but to me, that difference wasn't worth $1500 CDN.

Thanks....I was leaning toward the 111fd from 8 feet.

I continue to find the opinions and experience shared here to be so very helpful. I hope once I have made my decision that I will be able to share some of my 1st hand experiences with somebody who needs the relevant information. One thing has become pretty clear to me. I am admittedly prone to go for the best quality I can afford in most of my purchases. However, it seems that perhaps like buying a good suit, quality isn't the sole determinator. If it doesn't fit, what's the use? So, I'm now leaning toward the 60" range +/-, with the best PQ I can justify for the money. I may just wait to check out the new Pannies, as this will be a purchase that I hope will satisfy me for at the least 5 years, maybe 7-10. I don't doubt the quality of the 6020 would satisfy me, I just have some concerns about the viability of Pioneer for the service issues.

Well the BEAST PRO151FD just arrived, Ozzy helped me carry it into the living room and we unpacked it " no damage that I can see, looks just fine thank GOD", all he said was WOW, then he asked what is wrong with the one I have now PRO110FD on the wall "which will be replaced by the 151FD", I told him the tiny one will go to the bedroom and the BEAST will hang on the wall in it's place, will hang it on Thursday with pictures to follow soon after. Man this thing dwarfs the 50" PRO110FD.

Well the BEAST PRO151FD just arrived, Ozzy helped me carry it into the living room and we unpacked it " no damage that I can see, looks just fine thank GOD", all he said was WOW, than he asked what is wrong with the one I have now PRO110FD on the wall "which will be replaced by the 151FD", I told him the tiny one will go to the bedroom and the BEAST will hang on the wall in it's place, will hang it on Thursday with pictures to follow soon after. Man this thing dwarfs the 50" PRO110FD.

Congrats, my 151 will arrive in two weeks and then my current Pio 5070 will be relegated to the bedroom.