I've been in the market for about a year and still haven't bought a plasma. So after lurking here for so long I thought about using forums users to narrow my focus.

Setup will be about 9' viewing distance, no larger than 50". Max budget is $2000. My goal is for this plasma to last at least 15 years. My preferred budget is closer to $1300. I don't need price references, this is just an outline of what seems reasonable to me. I'm aware of the current kuro price drop.

I am stuck in a chicken and egg story, that is which comes first.

Currently I have a 21" trinitron, love the blacks, it is competent, but small for widescreen fare. I have no blue ray, no gamebox. I do have a Netflix roku player, and a recent downgrade to all digital crappy RCN cable service which even on a 21" seems to macroblock and has color bleeding (most basic converter box). For many reasons I'm not interested in upgrading my TV service, so SD playback isn't a priority but apart from DVD it is currently my main fare.

I do dream of a day when I'll get to have a proper 1080 24p input source, and that is the crux of the problem. In showrooms I don't seem to see big panning scenes, so I realistically don't know how important should 24p playback be. I do consider myself susceptible to digital artifacts, I easily detect compression artifacts in motion scenes. I do like ideologically getting the full picture, and overscan especially on 720p models just ruffles me the wrong way. BTW, Criterion should never have compensated on some DVDs for overscan, my opinion. But right there it pushes me to the top of my price comfort level.

So back to the chicken and egg, if I choose a set based on what I currently have, then 24p and even 1080 might be overkill and my price range drops dramatically. But if I have a 15 year outlook, shouldn't I insist on those two features? I'm in NY, could go today to PCrichards and get the Panasonic 46" 800u model well in my comfort zone, but the 24p mode seems to be somewhat reviled.

Lastly, the new Panasonics Neo PDP interest me for their power savings. I read somewhere that though the kuro is rated at 436Watts, average usage in the movie preset drops consumption to about 234watts. Aware of the relation between brightness and power consumption in plasmas, I was just trying to figure out how much more attractive in power consumption those Neo PDPs might be.

Your goal of buying a plasma now that will be current 15 years from now is unrealistic. If you don't like the way current plasmas handle 24fps then how is buying one now going to help? Then you talk about green plasmas but those haven't been released yet. You seem to be all over the place with your thoughts. You either buy what's available now or wait two year, learn more about the technology, then buy something that more closely fits your parameters.

i say get the Pioneer 5020. Just dont expect a TV to last u 15 years anymore. This isnt the 80's.

Your goal of buying a plasma now that will be current 15 years from now is unrealistic.
Just to be clear, I don't expect that in 15 years the set is capable of displaying what is the newest and best of the day, just that I can reasonably expect the set to be still functioning and that the HDMI connection is still relevant even if no longer the the facto tech of the day.

Yes, I'm a bit all over the map, and waiting just seems to mean that my concerns increase vs decrease. 4 years ago I was waiting for SED and for the HD battles to settle. I do think we are moving to a somewhat more established and less cutting edge phase of the High Def rollout and that a longer perspective isn't so foolish anymore. Yes I could wait another year, I have waited plenty so far.

Just to be clear, I don't expect that in 15 years the set is capable of displaying what is the newest and best of the day, just that I can reasonably expect the set to be still functioning and that the HDMI connection is still relevant even if no longer the the facto tech of the day.

Yes, I'm a bit all over the map, and waiting just seems to mean that my concerns increase vs decrease. 4 years ago I was waiting for SED and for the HD battles to settle. I do think we are moving to a somewhat more established and less cutting edge phase of the High Def rollout and that a longer perspective isn't so foolish anymore. Yes I could wait another year, I have waited plenty so far.

15 years is a very long time. Who knows whether HDMI will still be around? Will broadcast TV as we know it still exist? Will movies still be sold on physical media?

If I were you I would change my expectations of how long it will work to 10 years being the really happy goal.
Unfortunate, but I just don't have faith these flat panels will last even that long for the most part.

If I were you I would change my expectations of how long it will work to 10 years being the really happy goal.
Unfortunate, but I just don't have faith these flat panels will last even that long for the most part.


Yea my Goal is my Pioneer 111FD lasts 5 years then ill buy the next best thing.

Yea my Goal is my Pioneer 111FD lasts 5 years then ill buy the next best thing.

A better strategy. I don't think anyone will even want a 111fd 5 years from now as anything more than a back-up

Realistically I'm still not ready to jump on blue ray just yet, I have a whole bunch of laserdiscs sitting idle because I jumped on that tech too fast (and the laserdisc player broke down a year ago), what other 24p content is there? If as forum members say the long term is no good, then maybe I should drop 24p and save the $1000 for another cheap set down the road? But good blacks seem to be tied to the more expensive models too.

yea ive had my sony Rear Projection LCD 42 inch for 5 years now. So I just got the 111FD. The LCD is now a backup. Hopefully it lasts another 5 years of minimal use and well upgrade that one. If Not then well get something else.

The set may be working great in 15 years, but it will most likely be obsolete. Flat panel display is still in the technology growth phase. There are lots of improvements still to come. The media sources are also changing. In 8 years, the 4K media may be widespread and require a 4K set to get the best picture.

I don't think I need the latest, what I value is fidelity to the source material (color, contrast, aspect ratio), not necessarily top of the line resolution. I do have good eye sight but 50" at 9' at 1080 should be pretty hard to find fault with. Because I've been on a 21" crt so long, and no longer want to get in these see-saw expenditures where you gotta have the latest, I would be happy with DVDs for another 15 years, properly displayed (I'm sure DVDs will be on sale for 10 more years, call me an optimist).

I do worry that because I'm susceptible to seeing digital artifacting I'll also start to get bothered by motion judder at 50". 24p was just a fail safe, not a must have, especially since I'm not yet convinced about investing in Blu Ray. At the same time, I'm going to have some fairly compressed or low res source material (DVD, Netflix Roku) for the foreseeable future.

So for color contrast and fidelity to the source aspect ratio, what has a reasonable chance to still satisfy me now? Any recs?

I don't think I need the latest, what I value is fidelity to the source material (color, contrast, aspect ratio), not necessarily top of the line resolution. I do have good eye sight but 50" at 9' at 1080 should be pretty hard to find fault with. Because I've been on a 21" crt so long, and no longer want to get in these see-saw expenditures where you gotta have the latest, I would be happy with DVDs for another 15 years, properly displayed (I'm sure DVDs will be on sale for 10 more years, call me an optimist).

I do worry that because I'm susceptible to seeing digital artifacting I'll also start to get bothered by motion judder at 50". 24p was just a fail safe, not a must have, especially since I'm not yet convinced about investing in Blu Ray. At the same time, I'm going to have some fairly compressed or low res source material (DVD, Netflix Roku) for the foreseeable future.

So for color contrast and fidelity to the source aspect ratio, what has a reasonable chance to still satisfy me now? Any recs?

All new TVs have the same aspect ratio (16:9), so that's not really a factor.

For color fidelity a Pioneer Elite, Panasonic 800u, Samsung, or LG will be best. Unfortunately those sets are either very expensive (Pioneer Elite) or have various drawbacks (800u, Samsung, LG). The Pioneer 5020 doesn't have particularly accurate color points but this isn't necessarily noticeable.

For contrast the Pioneers are unmatched. Nothing else comes close. Panasonic is second best, Samung and LG are about tied at a distant third place.

i say get the Pioneer 5020. Just dont expect a TV to last u 15 years anymore. This isnt the 80's.

If by "last" you mean "a DVD will look the same on day 5500 as it did on day 55" then i don't see why not. Aren't today's panels rated for like 80k+ hours?

All new TVs have the same aspect ratio (16:9), so that's not really a factor.
I was talking more of displays that didn't add any type of overscan, fidelity to the source aspect ratio.

I'm starting to think that considering that I intend to stay invested in DVDs, may want a gamebox, have a roku player, that a no thrill 1080 set might be the better reality check match. In that case, I probably should wait for the Panasonic Neo PDP G series to come out and possibly see how the energy savings and better non-kuro-line blacks pan out.

The G series should be far cheaper than the current kuro discount, right?

Get a Samsung 550 series 50". It will easily surpass your expectations and you'll never regret your purchase. :cool:

I was talking more of displays that didn't add any type of overscan, fidelity to the source aspect ratio.

I'm starting to think that considering that I intend to stay invested in DVDs, may want a gamebox, have a roku player, that a no thrill 1080 set might be the better reality check match. In that case, I probably should wait for the Panasonic Neo PDP G series to come out and possibly see how the energy savings and better non-kuro-line blacks pan out.

The G series should be far cheaper than the current kuro discount, right?

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you and I'm thinking the G10 will be right for me, I'm eager for them to hit the market and get some real-world reports.

If by "last" you mean "a DVD will look the same on day 5500 as it did on day 55" then i don't see why not. Aren't today's panels rated for like 80k+ hours?

They dim and I'd be willing to bet they will not last their rated lifetime.
Heck look at some other specs manufacturers tout and are just bunk.

I was talking more of displays that didn't add any type of overscan, fidelity to the source aspect ratio.

I'm starting to think that considering that I intend to stay invested in DVDs, may want a gamebox, have a roku player, that a no thrill 1080 set might be the better reality check match. In that case, I probably should wait for the Panasonic Neo PDP G series to come out and possibly see how the energy savings and better non-kuro-line blacks pan out.

The G series should be far cheaper than the current kuro discount, right?

I believe that all 1080p sets have a no overscan mode, at least with 1080p/1080i signals. If you have a DVD player that will scale to 1080p/1080i, then overscan will not be an issue.

Get a 50" with 1080p, You will regret if you buy anything smaller or even lower resolution.
http://www.***************/img/io/iy.gif
http://www.***************/img/i0/iy.gif

Just to be clear, I don't expect that in 15 years the set is capable of displaying what is the newest and best of the day, just that I can reasonably expect the set to be still functioning and that the HDMI connection is still relevant even if no longer the the facto tech of the day.

Yes, I'm a bit all over the map, and waiting just seems to mean that my concerns increase vs decrease. 4 years ago I was waiting for SED and for the HD battles to settle. I do think we are moving to a somewhat more established and less cutting edge phase of the High Def rollout and that a longer perspective isn't so foolish anymore. Yes I could wait another year, I have waited plenty so far.

Save your coin, buy the best plasma you can afford, take it home, and enjoy it for as long as you humanly can.

End of story. That is as happy an ending you can expect to get with any tv.

Don't ask for crystal balls about plasma longevity in 15 years. Don't ask about HDMI relevance in 15 years. They'll make adapters and service shops in 15 years. :)

With technology buy for now or face regrets. What display existing now is worth trading your cash for the display to view now.

I read tv's built into contact lenses in 10 years. http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/02/contact-lens-co.html

Will this happen in 10 years? who knows. Will you still like your plasma in 10 years? who knows.

1980's tech grew faster than the 1970's. 1990's tech grew faster than the 1980's. First decade of 21'st century is advancing more than the 1990's. The next decade will be even more advanced than this decade.

Just got back from PCrichards in Manhattan, boy was their setup depressing. They had an HD ESPN channel hooked up via component, probably split from some bad converter box ontop of it. I bet it was component because of the 3 walls, one whole wall of tv displays was missing one of the primary colors. Goodbye orange, hello green! Since I couldn't judge picture quality I had plenty to say about the look of all the bezels and which size could and couldn't mask a really poor signal.

I have to say every plasma maker fails in the bezel department here, the kuro was at least simple and not fussy but the gloss was less than stellar. Some of the Samsungs looked like cheap plastic, but I'm starting to wonder if they forgot to remove the protective film, because at Best Buy it didn't quite look like poorly molded plastic. Though even there I wasn't enthused about the big glowing glass foot, nor the rose tint on the higher end models. I really can't stand the Panasonics's 850 line control bar arcing into the screen like it does, nor the asymmetrical bezel size, nor the backwardly curved side edges in the other lines.

I tried to stand 9' back and took the poor HD ESPN signal as perhaps a sign of what to expect with my non HD even poorer SD tv input. Perhaps 42" is a better fit. Also after swinging at best buy, I was reminded that small bezels really help in not making a tv look so big; although an LCD one of SONY's models at 46" looked more like a 42" one. In any case, this foray just made me think that even at $1000+ most of it looks like crap. I do use my living room for reading and listening to music, so I do consider the off state important.

All in all the Kuro came out on top for aesthetics, but only if I talk plasma. At Best Buy I did notice the dirty white some complain of, but also could really appreciate the blacks in mostly black scenes. Some LCDs did quite well in mixed scenes, but also tended to have an unnatural look, like black hair was more like a painted black blob rather than hair. Wonder what happens when you tone down the dynamic contrast.

Just got back from PCrichards in Manhattan, boy was their setup depressing. They had an HD ESPN channel hooked up via component, probably split from some bad converter box ontop of it. I bet it was component because of the 3 walls, one whole wall of tv displays was missing one of the primary colors. Goodbye orange, hello green! Since I couldn't judge picture quality I had plenty to say about the look of all the bezels and which size could and couldn't mask a really poor signal.

I have to say every plasma maker fails in the bezel department here, the kuro was at least simple and not fussy but the gloss was less than stellar. Some of the Samsungs looked like cheap plastic, but I'm starting to wonder if they forgot to remove the protective film, because at Best Buy it didn't quite look like poorly molded plastic. Though even there I wasn't enthused about the big glowing glass foot, nor the rose tint on the higher end models. I really can't stand the Panasonics's 850 line control bar arcing into the screen like it does, nor the asymmetrical bezel size, nor the backwardly curved side edges in the other lines.

I tried to stand 9' back and took the poor HD ESPN signal as perhaps a sign of what to expect with my non HD even poorer SD tv input. Perhaps 42" is a better fit. Also after swinging at best buy, I was reminded that small bezels really help in not making a tv look so big; although an LCD one of SONY's models at 46" looked more like a 42" one. In any case, this foray just made me think that even at $1000+ most of it looks like crap. I do use my living room for reading and listening to music, so I do consider the off state important.

All in all the Kuro came out on top for aesthetics, but only if I talk plasma. At Best Buy I did notice the dirty white some complain of, but also could really appreciate the blacks in mostly black scenes. Some LCDs did quite well in mixed scenes, but also tended to have an unnatural look, like black hair was more like a painted black blob rather than hair. Wonder what happens when you tone down the dynamic contrast.

Stores really aren't great places to judge TVs. In general a good plasma will look better than an LCD for lower quality signals (due to stronger core picture quality elements like black levels, motion resolution and viewing angle), though of course there are exceptions.

One of the biggest issues with LCD is that they have very poor viewing angles. That means that unless you sit straight on in front of the TV, the picture quality will suffer quite dramatically. Even sitting a few feet off the side, like at the end of the couch rather than the center, will hurt the quality of the image quite a bit.

I actually think most new TVs look alike when they're off. Glossy black frames are pretty much de riguer. There are some different design elements but they're all relatively subtle. Even Samsungs extremely controversial "touch of color" isn't really that noticeable. I do prefer the more minimal Kuro bezel but I can't imagine making a TV purchase based on such minor aesthetic differences.

I do prefer the more minimal Kuro bezel but I can't imagine making a TV purchase based on such minor aesthetic differences.
It won't stop me from making a purchase, but since they mangled the signal it was all I was left to observe. The size issue though is something that still bothers me and the bezel does play into that. I did a cutout of the kuro dimensions to see how imposing or not it would feel. Its been up on my wall for 2 days and I'm seriously leaning towards 42" especially after seeing the different sizes in person and trying to step back the appropriate distance.

It won't stop me from making a purchase, but since they mangled the signal it was all I was left to observe. The size issue though is something that still bothers me and the bezel does play into that. I did a cutout of the kuro dimensions to see how imposing or not it would feel. Its been up on my wall for 2 days and I'm seriously leaning towards 42" especially after seeing the different sizes in person and trying to step back the appropriate distance.

You will become accustomed to whatever size you get in about 10 minutes.

That's what she said to her girlfriend.

Rereading the first post, I think you are too concerned about overscan. Unlike CRTs, most flat panel TVs have very minimal overscan. On Pioneers, for instance, it's less than 2%. I've seen CRTs with more than 10% overscan, which is horrible.

don't paralyze yourself with analysis - that tends to happen a lot in the tech world - go see what you like, do a little research, and pull the trigger

the opportunity cost of days lost not enjoying your new plasma is not worth the aggravation of waiting years to get that .001% better set...it's like women, no matter what you choose there will be other hot models...

all the best

Sitting 9 feet away from the display, you want at least a 50" screen size!!! I'm just under 7 feet in from of my 50" display. My last HDTV, a 42" 1080i CRT Rear Projection display I paid $1800 I had for 5 years and then sold it for $50. I now have this 1080P 50" Panasonic Plasma, and I plan to have it for at least 5 years. Prices, Screen sizes, Technology is changing so fast. 15 years on a Display these days is unlikely for the simple fact you'll want something better long before that. These aren't the TUBE days, Electronic Tech is steam rolling along at a quick pace. In 5 years time people were buying EDTV 480P Plasma's for the same price as a larger 1080P display NOW or cheaper. In that time the Picture is much better, Burn-In isn't a issue anymore, hell image Retention is Rare. In 5 to 10 years, Displays can be larger, much thinner, cheaper, maybe something even better then Plasma or LCD.

don't paralyze yourself with analysis
Good advice. President's Weekend sales combined with just a month worth of kuro sales remaining worked me up in a frenzy. I haven't been moved this close to a new tv purchase in the last 18 years, so yesterday was actually revealing in terms of what I thought my price points were. I'm finding I rather spend more on vacations and fine dining than on a tv.

I'll consider the kuro for 24p and better blacks if it continues to drop in price down to $1600 shipped and all (unlikely, oh well) and otherwise for something that doesn't have both of those features I'll reset my price point to $800. Aggressive terms, but in the end this is truly what will put me at peace, some might think that enjoying a 21" is insane, but I still do so those are the prices that will finally move me. In this economy it might just happen.

15 years on a Display these days is unlikely for the simple fact you'll want something better long before that

Not necessarily, not everyone can spare 2 grand every 2 years for a new display and if our CRTs can last 15 years there's no reason today's flat panels cant. If the PDP starts dimming you can always adjust the brightness/picture to compensate.

Carlitos you must be the most patient person on this board. Most of the folks on here upgrade all the time. Maybe I don't make enough money to buy toys all the time or maybe it's my depression era grandad rubbbing off on me, and his philosophy of "you bought it to keep it." I tend to plan purchases and keep them a long time. Seems like that philosophy may come back into vogue now. I am still watching an 11 year old Panasonic 36" CRT I bought used, and it works just fine, I just want bigger.

I think a 5020 or a Panny G or V series would be a great purchase. I don't see any reason why a plasma couldn't last 10 to 15 years. I have been reading about plasma for 2 years and am planning to pull the trigger on a panny this summer.

Carlitos you must be the most patient person on this board. Most of the folks on here upgrade all the time. Maybe I don't make enough money to buy toys all the time or maybe it's my depression era grandad rubbbing off on me, and his philosophy of "you bought it to keep it." I tend to plan purchases and keep them a long time. Seems like that philosophy may come back into vogue now. I am still watching an 11 year old Panasonic 36" CRT I bought used, and it works just fine, I just want bigger.

I think a 5020 or a Panny G or V series would be a great purchase. I don't see any reason why a plasma couldn't last 10 to 15 years. .

Agreed. I think they could very well last that long. The thing is, you might not want to keep it that long if the new stuff is worlds better.

I think it's been made pretty clear he DOES want it to keep it that long, though. I'm not gonna buy a G10 this christmas and chuck it before the next presidential election :P

ibanda - You think like me, I guess we were raised in similar environments :D

To be fair, I don't think people who upgrade frequently are frivolous and wasteful. If displays and HT are your hobby and that's what you like to spend your money on, that's cool. But the question is will they last if you choose to keep them for a long time and the answer is pretty much a yes. I don't think anything on today's sets will be obsolete in 10, 15 or even 20 years (hell, we still haven't even managed to convert to digital signals yet!)