When I first got the Benq W5000 I was wondering how could any projector be that much better. It appears that the Planar is indeed.

I will wait to see what comes out in the next couple of months, Infocus, Benq W30000 (interesting with LED) and probably a few others before taking the Planar plunge.

Nice to have the W5000 in the meantime.

By the way, did you ever sample the JVC models.

Thanks

The color performance of the W5000 and the Planar should be about the same. The difference is that the BenQ has to be manually calibrated through the service menu, whereas the Planar Rec. 709 preset is so close to perfect out of the box it is hardly worth the effort. They both have the CCA color calibration system (as does the Samsung) that TI provides.

is there a lens cap available for the planar ? Mine came with a loosely fitting tranparent flimsy lid .

The color performance of the W5000 and the Planar should be about the same. The difference is that the BenQ has to be manually calibrated through the service menu, whereas the Planar Rec. 709 preset is so close to perfect out of the box it is hardly worth the effort. They both have the CCA color calibration system (as does the Samsung) that TI provides.

I know what you're saying, I've seen some of the calibration data for Planars and it does look very similar to the W5000 gamut wise. It might just be that the Planar being brighter makes the colors "seem" better/richer. I could get out my i1, but I'm going to try and just sit back and enjoy it for a while :D


When I first got the Benq W5000 I was wondering how could any projector be that much better. It appears that the Planar is indeed.

"Much" is always a tricky thing. I could really see how some would look at the two and think the extra for the Planar is a total waste of money. It's been said before, but on this forum we really are starting to just pick nits between projectors. It used to be there were truly big differences between models, but today, it's hard to find one that throws a bad picture.

But I think if you've lived with a W5000 and have become aware of it's "limitations" you'll be able to see how the Planar addresses almost all of those.

Oh, and I forgot to mention last night but the Planar is noticeably quieter than the W5000.

I will wait to see what comes out in the next couple of months, Infocus, Benq W30000 (interesting with LED) and probably a few others before taking the Planar plunge.

Yeah, I'm curious about the SP8602 and the W30000 as well. Ever since my IN76 I think I'll have a sweet spot for InFocus, and the SP8602 sounds like a great machine, but my gut tells me it won't match the Planar. Of course it will be a good bit cheaper, so that's something to consider. And the W30000, I'd love to get excited about it, but I just see it being to the W5000/W20000 like the Vivatek is to the Planar, ie basically the same performance (aside from color) but better longevity and no RBE. But I'm not bothered by RBE and lamp longevity doesn't really bother me. And with my experience with BenQ so far, I'm not in a hurry to have another one (if only their support matched up with their PQ).

That's basically my thought process anyway. Sounds like we're in similar positions, the big difference is I don't have faith in my W5000 lasting, plus the open box deal, I just couldn't pass up the Planar.

Nice to have the W5000 in the meantime.

Not a bad place to be at all.

By the way, did you ever sample the JVC models.

I did view an RS2 (technically the Pioneer FPJ1) at a local dealer. I wasn't terribly impressed with it. But I wasn't exactly disappointed either. It goes back to my comments about the 8150, it took me a good two days to start to get a feel for it, so I'm sure the hour or so I looked at the RS2 wasn't enough for me to "know it".

The screen was way too big for the room .

"It might just be that the Planar being brighter makes the colors "seem" better/richer. "

IMO that's true for all pj's.

Just zoom from max to min image size, or hold up a piece of white something starting at your screen and move closer to the pj and watch what happens.

im sure this has been asked before, but the specs say that using the standard lens the throw distance is 1.85 to 2.4. i will be using a 126" diagonal 16:9 screen and want to maximize the brightness as much as possible with a 1.1 gain screen. so my question is this: at 126" and 1.85 would that mean that the pj will need to be roughly 19.5' back from the screen? also, if i were to get the optional short throw lens, then the brightness would increase, correct? and if so, how much are we talking about?

im sure this has been asked before, but the specs say that using the standard lens the throw distance is 1.85 to 2.4. i will be using a 126" diagonal 16:9 screen and want to maximize the brightness as much as possible with a 1.1 gain screen. so my question is this: at 126" and 1.85 would that mean that the pj will need to be roughly 19.5' back from the screen?I'm pretty sure the 1.85 to 2.4 is from screen width, so if your screen is 126" diagonal that is about 110" in width, putting the front of the projector anywhere from just inside 17' back to about 22' back. And for maximum lumens from the projector, about 17' back.
also, if i were to get the optional short throw lens, then the brightness would increase, correct?Probably not. Depends somewhat on which end of the zoom you use for each, but if you use the longest throw of the short throw lens that will likely be dimmer than the shortest throw of the long throw lens. The rule about putting the projector closer for brighter images is just for a single lens where most lenses allow more light through at their short end than at the long end. It doesn't apply between 2 different lenses. In that case you need to look at each, but if 2 lenses each put out about the same lumens at their short end as each other and same for the long end between the lenses, and for each lens the lumens drop as the throw is moved toward the longer end (which is pretty much standard here), then the shortest throw of the long throw lens will be brighter than the longest throw of the short throw lens. I hope that made sense.

--Darin

yes, thank you for the clarification. so with the standard lens then, what kind of brightness dropoff do you think i would get from the 17' mark back to the 22' mark. would it be something like 10% dimmer for the long throw?

yes, thank you for the clarification. so with the standard lens then, what kind of brightness dropoff do you think i would get from the 17' mark back to the 22' mark. would it be something like 10% dimmer for the long throw?I haven't measured it, but I looked at Greg Rogers review for Widescreen Review and with high lamp he measured 612 lumens at the short end of the throw and 547 lumens at the long end (with 27% reduction if he went to low lamp). So, about 10% reduction from the throw range difference, like you said. And with the way human vision works, 10% difference between modes doesn't look like much (probably even hard to tell without seeing them against each other quickly).

I should also mention that Greg's numbers were with a pretty new lamp, so I wouldn't assume those absolute figures, but relative figures may hold. I'm also not sure if Planar changed anything since his review that would have changed these since they seem to get better on/off CR now than he was getting. The 10% is probably a fair figure to use though.

--Darin

is there a lens cap available for the planar ? Mine came with a loosely fitting tranparent flimsy lid .

I take it no-one knows of any real lens cap for the Planar...

While on the subject of comparison with the Benq W5000, having seen both PJs myself, I would add that the Planar has jaw dropping handling of motion. This is something I never knew my own PJ (Optoma HD80) was particularly wanting in either .

Just view Spiderman3, the 1st fight between Spiderman and Peter's best friend Harry (James Franco).

BTW, how much does the Planar 8150 sell for in the States ? I have paid the equivalent of $6,150 including all taxes.

The UK recommended retail price including all taxes is $9,800 (£5,995).

Hi Tausifs,

How did you get the Planar at that price in the UK?

Is the Planar similar to every other PJ when it comes to lamp dimming over time?

What us the rate of this dimming, how noticeable, and how much does it screw up a calibration?

Would you just up the brightness one notch every year or so, or would you need a whole new calibration?

Thanks?

Hi Tausifs,

How did you get the Planar at that price in the UK?

It turned out the online retailer took my order and payment but then emailed me later to say the PD8150 was 'discontinued' :mad:- I take this to mean they were no longer going to stock it. I guess when it seems too good to be true then it probably isn't, as they say.

I will probably go for the cheaper PD8130 now.

Is the Planar similar to every other PJ when it comes to lamp dimming over time?

What us the rate of this dimming, how noticeable, and how much does it screw up a calibration?

Would you just up the brightness one notch every year or so, or would you need a whole new calibration?

Thanks?

thats a good question that i would like to know as well. since the planar only has 2 brightness settings (low and standard) then i don't think it would be possible to up the brightness really other than playing with the picture settings but then you would have to adjust contrast as well. i think it can be done but not sure how much of an affect it will have overall on brightness. hopefully someone with the unit and an aged bulb can chime in.

Dimming is inherent to projector lamps, no projector is immune unless it moves to an entirely different technology (eg the Vivitek with it's LED light sources).

The only thing I can't stand about the Benq is it takes forever to warm up.

Actually looks to be right about the same I think. I got all the commands I need working in my MX880 last night and I watched the macro run today when I fired it up, and the source info box (which AFAIK shows up once it's "warmed up") showed up about a second before my 37 second delay finished in my power up macro.

I take it no-one knows of any real lens cap for the Planar...



Well the lens has threads for a 72mm filter, so if you bought a generic 72mm lens cap like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/111312-REG/General_Brand__72mm_Snap_On_Lens_Cap.html), you might be fine. I suppose it may not work (I haven't tried and the lenses I own are 77mm), but for the money, may be worth the try.

Rick

Well the lens has threads for a 72mm filter, so if you bought a generic 72mm lens cap like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/111312-REG/General_Brand__72mm_Snap_On_Lens_Cap.html), you might be fine. I suppose it may not work (I haven't tried and the lenses I own are 77mm), but for the money, may be worth the try.

Rick

Thank you- nice tip. I will look into it.

It is being offered at a very aggressive price by one of the big European internet shops.

If not for the fact that I can't finance it anyway at this point I would be very tempted.

It is being offered at a very aggressive price by one of the big European internet shops.

If not for the fact that I can't finance it anyway at this point I would be very tempted.

yes , if its the one I'm thinking of , I ordered from them and they then said they had none in stock, claimed it was discontinued, and they canceled my order- only for me to see a few days later that they claim they have stock again. I am skeptical as to whether they have them, something fishy is going on.

Aside from that, the 8150 has been around for some time now. I am surprised that there is no official talk of a successor- if I am not mistaken, the 8150/30 were their first ever full HD PJs ie. their only full HD models. I gather they have exited the display market. I fear they may do the same with their PJ business. It would be a real loss.

You will not see a successor to the 8150 anytime soon, maybe next CEDIA, but not this year. Planar is focused on the Runco line right now and will probably take a trickle down approach with the Planar line over time.

yes , if its the one I'm thinking of , I ordered from them and they then said they had none in stock, claimed it was discontinued, and they canceled my order- only for me to see a few days later that they claim they have stock again. I am skeptical as to whether they have them, something fishy is going on.

Aside from that, the 8150 has been around for some time now. I am surprised that there is no official talk of a successor- if I am not mistaken, the 8150/30 were their first ever full HD PJs ie. their only full HD models. I gather they have exited the display market. I fear they may do the same with their PJ business. It would be a real loss.


Does their name start with "pi"?

Frankly, I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think there's been any significant enough advances in technology to warrant a new model right now. Just look at JVC, all they did this year was slap FI on last years models.

There's some promise out there for major advances in DLP technology, but they're not ready for a 8150-type price point yet. There's been talk of new DMDs, and there's LED illumination, but neither are ready now (LED judging by the Vivitek price/performance). Basically I don't think a new model would really bring anything to the table as of today.

Let's hope Planar is working on a locally lit LED machine, maybe with a new DMD for next CEDIA. Now that would be worth releasing :D

And I think I may well enjoy my Planar more every time I sit down in front of it. I watched the first disc of Torchwood: Children of Earth last night, and man this Planar is gorgeous
:D

Just look at JVC, all they did this year was slap FI on last years models.
I'm not convinced of that yet. Let's wait for final data or even first reviews before judging the JVCs.

I'm not convinced of that yet. Let's wait for final data or even first reviews before judging the JVCs.

The 990 appears to be more, yes, but it doesn't sound like much else changed. Of course if the FI on the JVCs can "solve" their motion issues without creating the "soap opera effect" there will be very little to complain about with them anyway ;)

The 990 appears to be more, yes, but it doesn't sound like much else changed.
May I bring some JVC history back to your mind?

CEDIA 2008: JVC introduces HD350 and HD750 and claims native CR of 15k:1 and 30k:1. Here's proof:

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-16664-CEDIA+2008:+Four+New+Projectors+from+JVC.html
http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/1801-jvc-showcases-new-dla-hd350-dla-hd750-video-projectors-cedia-expo-denver-2008
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/04/jvc-launches-four-new-full-hd-projectors-at-cedia/
http://news.softpedia.com/news/CEDIA-2008-JVC-Unveils-Two-Full-HD-THX-Certified-Projectors-93024.shtml

A few weeks after CEDIA 2008 JVC suddenly ups the specs to 30k:1 and 50k:1, claiming that the older specs hadn't been final yet.

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/DLA-HD350/

So as you can see, last year even the specs advertized at CEDIA were not final yet, but were increased later. Today we have conflicting information about the new HD550/950: The preliminary spec sheet says native CR was not increased. But the press release says otherwise. So I think it's a good idea to keep your mind open for possible spec increases during/after CEDIA, just like it happened last year. I believe HD550/950 are likely to end up with increased native CR specs. I think JVC has simply not decided yet which exact numbers to advertize exactly. Just like in 2008.

Does their name start with "pi"?

yes that's the one, they are based in France.

I have heard that Planar as a brand no longer exists and that the 8130/8150's will be rebadged as Runco models. Anyone else heard this ?

They appear to have been shown as Runco models at CEDIA:

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2009/runco_lightstyle/

Sure looks like it. Thanks. Bummer, that will probably make it more expensive than I am willing to pay.

Sure looks like it. Thanks. Bummer, that will probably make it more expensive than I am willing to pay.

Shouldn't be, it's still the same MSRP- $7K.

Looking at the Runco picture it looks like a flat gun metal black finish, the Planar has a shiny piano black finish. But everything else looks identical.

I picked up a Dealer Demo unit recently and while not totally installed or put though all it's paces I'm very happy with the sharpness and the out of the box colors.

Looking at the Runco picture it looks like a flat gun metal black finish, the Planar has a shiny piano black finish. But everything else looks identical.

It might just be the lighting, the 8150 isn't actually Piano black, it's got a very subtle metallic finish to it. If you get it in the right light you can tell.

atleast runco sounds more "high-end"!!

I got confirmation from my Planar dealer that the 8130 and 8150 are being phased out over the next ~6 months in favor of the Runco-badged LS-3 and LS-5.

I guess it doesn't make sense to have identical models running concurrently, but I was somewhat surprised nonetheless.

Well in the UK you simply cannot buy a Planar PJ any more. They are no longer in production, I was told by the distributor, CSE Custom or if not, no longer being exported to the UK, I suspect the former though. In fact, the distributor for Runco is a different one in the UK, Pulse Marketing which could kind of complicate things so far as warranty follow up- you have the potential of both distributors to pass the buck through lack of direction from Planar who I believe bought Runco.

Pity they never fixed the Australian pricing model. I'm sure Runco won't improve that situation either.

I got confirmation from my Planar dealer that the 8130 and 8150 are being phased out over the next ~6 months in favor of the Runco-badged LS-3 and LS-5.

I guess it doesn't make sense to have identical models running concurrently, but I was somewhat surprised nonetheless.

Will follow up closely for a close out deal if I don't buy the RS20 by then.

They have announced no close out deal. because they are going to sell the same exact machines with aRRunco badge. Same factory yada yada. Your best deal would be a Planar dealer with stock (probably not going tohappen, most dealers order projectors as they need them) or a dealer selling off his\her demo. Most Planar dealers have already done so. But dealers can still order Planars at the same prices as before the brand consolidation.

the runco lightstyle are meant to ship november. the lower model ls3 ie. 8130 equivalent is 5000 bucks. is this the same as the planar 8130 was ? i think the 8150 equivalent ls5 is about 7000.

the runco lightstyle are meant to ship november. the lower model ls3 ie. 8130 equivalent is 5000 bucks. is this the same as the planar 8130 was ? i think the 8150 equivalent ls5 is about 7000.

the runco website rather boldy claims the ls3/5/7 are 'built from the ground up' . well when they were planar they certainly were !

This would indeed be a price lowering from $6000 to $5000 for a Planar 8130 rebranded as a Runco ls3. This would indeed make marketing sense since the 8150 was only $1000 more than an 8130. Silly not to get the better machine for only a $1000 differential at this price level. Now there is some meaningful price separation between the 8130\8150 or ls3\ls5.

too bad there won't be a blowout. that would have been an excellent chance to get an awesome machine for a great price. question now is... should one buy the planar-brand that technically no longer exists, or get the runco.

I don't really see how it would be any different, it's the same machine, same company. Only question is if you care if there's a "Runco" label on it (which is probably more recognized by lay-people).

I agree Stranger. Planar as a company is not going away. It just seems that they want to consolidate the PJs under the Runco branding. Any support will still be there.

And it really makes a great deal of sense IMO. Runco is a brand stores around here carry (they actually have Runco machines on display). Runco is a name people know. Planar isn't. Plus Planar's distribution model was not sufficiently more "lax" than Runco to be beneficial IMO (ie didn't make them significantly easier to get).

As it stands, the only people who are likely to have heard of a Planar projector are those of us who live and breath projectors. I think this could be a good move. You'll now be able to walk into a store and get a great "Runco" projector at a price that's more competitive with the "internet brands", but with the better service buying locally should bring.

the ls pj's use runco's trademarked SuperOnyx DMD, the SuperOnyx trademark are used in their higher end pj's too but what all this means in real life i am not sure, seeing as its TI who make the DMDs. it could all just be marketing spiel. still, good news for US consumers if this means the 8130 has effectively had a price cut, though it seems few went for it given the historical price differential. No doubt there will be more ls3's/8130's sold now though.

Any word on a Planar 1080p 3 chip?

There are Runco three DLP chippers now. There will be no Planar three chipper. The Planar HT line is going away over the next 6 months and the same models are available for the same price in the Runco line with the model numbers LS3 and LS5..

:(

How does the 8150 compare with the Lumis? Is it 80% of the performance for 20% of the price?

Maybe 50% of the performance for 25% of the price in street price terms. Very subjective performace judgements here.

It will be interesting to see if Runco releases any FW updates to the LS3/LS5. I'm guessing they would be able to be loaded to the 8130/6150. I wonder how Runco historically compares to Planar in the frequency of updates to FW with new features.

Mike

Any word on a Planar 1080p 3 chip?

The Runco LS7 is a 720p 3 chip DLP that is the presumed rebadge of the Planar Viper. The LS7 is supposed to ship early December a little over $15k.

Planar purchased Runco from Sam Runco several years ago. The only differences in the HT lines were that the Planar line of two projectors were below the one that was the entry Runco. The two ower planar models are now the twolowest models in the Runcoline. Everything is still the same.

:(

How does the 8150 compare with the Lumis? Is it 80% of the performance for 20% of the price?

I dont think so I think they will have to do a better job with the auto iris and the lens, going back to Marantz has reminded me of the shortcomings of the 8150. Great brightness and colors from the 8150 but I think they have work to do in order to play with the bigger boys such as the lumis

Soon I will get a 8150 for a few days to test it in my place and compare to my Jvc HD750.

The unit is an "old" demo unit so I am not sure if it has the latest firmware applied. But aside from a little more on/off with DB enabled iirc there were no major changes?

If I read the review from Cine4Home correctly the unit is only as bright as my HD750 if I enable Brilliant Color. Does this have any drawbacks like artifacts or color (temp.) problems?

Right. They have started a $1.5 million R$D project designed to beat the $37,000 MSRP LUMIS host at the 8150`s MSRP of $7000. You heard it first here. Sim2 is shaking in their sleek Italian boots. Funfvr makes extremely valid observations about the 8150 and the 11S2 in another recent thread.

Its funny how someones question about how does one $7000 model compare to a $37000 model starts a discussion about their desire to compete with the $37000 model and what they have to do. Of course as funfvr points out in the other thread the optics in the planar are not as good as the optics in the $15000 marantz 11S2. Optics cost money. Lots of good features don`t cost much. Great optics cost and cost and one must be prepared to pay for them.

Right. They have started a $1.5 million R$D project designed to beat the $37,000 MSRP LUMIS host at the 8150`s MSRP of $7000. You heard it first here. Sim2 is shaking in their sleek Italian boots. Funfvr makes extremely valid observations about the 8150 and the 11S2 in another recent thread.

Its funny how someones question about how does one $7000 model compare to a $37000 model starts a discussion about their desire to compete with the $37000 model and what they have to do. Of course as funfvr points out in the other thread the optics in the planar are not as good as the optics in the $15000 marantz 11S2. Optics cost money. Lots of good features don`t cost much. Great optics cost and cost and one must be prepared to pay for them.


what he said :D.... well said Mark....great proj but like anything else has room for improvement but it willl cost-ya

One proud owner of a PD8150 :D, as of yesterday.

One proud owner of a PD8150 :D, as of yesterday.

Congrats, please let us know if you see artifacts such as dimming down or flickering of the image when using the DI. I would be curious to see if they have done any work in further tightening up the iris.

One proud owner of a PD8150 :D, as of yesterday.

Nice. Hope you like it as much as I like mine.

Re: The DI. I'm running the latest FW. I have it on all the time and it has never been an issue for me. Except at first I wasn't positive mine was even engaged! A while back I discovered that if I bring up the small menu of my video processor while watching a movie, I can see the dimming / brightening of the image by watching the menu options. I was surprised how often it was occuring - changing every 10 seconds or so in some cases - but of course the frequency is dependent on the particular film/scene. Never did see it flickering in any way, and its action was always a slow progression so I don't think I'd say it was pumping either.

YMMV.

Mike

Well the lens has threads for a 72mm filter, so if you bought a generic 72mm lens cap like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/111312-REG/General_Brand__72mm_Snap_On_Lens_Cap.html), you might be fine. I suppose it may not work (I haven't tried and the lenses I own are 77mm), but for the money, may be worth the try.

Rick

Rick,

I bought a similar lenscap and it fits just fine. In fact the planar lens lid can still fit over it too.

how does everyone with an 8150 describe sdtv performance. i just went back to a dealer with one on display to see exactly how it looks and thought that sdtv (even through a dvdo edge) looked pretty bad on a 100" screen. bluray was exceptional, but the cable box was very displeasing. now i know many will insist its the box, but i use the same one at home and sdtv looks pretty good on 55". obviously, bigger screen is no comparison but i just thought i'd ask here and see some impressions.

thanks.

IMHO SD TV image quality on the 8150 and a 100 inch screen is like SD on other HD projectors, basically lacking resolution. I did not build a HT to watch SD content. Up-converted DVDs via the Oppo bluray player are acceptable.

how does everyone with an 8150 describe sdtv performance. i just went back to a dealer with one on display to see exactly how it looks and thought that sdtv (even through a dvdo edge) looked pretty bad on a 100" screen. bluray was exceptional, but the cable box was very displeasing. now i know many will insist its the box, but i use the same one at home and sdtv looks pretty good on 55". obviously, bigger screen is no comparison but i just thought i'd ask here and see some impressions.
SD is acceptable on a tiny screen like 55"....At a medium size like 100" it doesn't look so good. At a larger size (160" and larger) it looks simply terrible. If you watch a lot of SD then I recommend staying with small screens (60" and under).

how does everyone with an 8150 describe sdtv performance. i just went back to a dealer with one on display to see exactly how it looks and thought that sdtv (even through a dvdo edge) looked pretty bad on a 100" screen. bluray was exceptional, but the cable box was very displeasing. now i know many will insist its the box, but i use the same one at home and sdtv looks pretty good on 55". obviously, bigger screen is no comparison but i just thought i'd ask here and see some impressions.

thanks.

I think it does a pretty good job, but you have to accept SD for what it is. I think a lot of people expect miracles and that's just not going to happen.

true, i just keep remembering seeing an rs10 and the sd looked great. actually, it was proabably a little more than great. i think that is whats clouding my judgement for the planar. i will be seeing an rs15 next week and hopefully i can look closely at sdtv through a cable box and see how the 2 units compare.

my screen is 126", hence why im a little scared to pull the trigger... seeing that 100" looked pretty crappy. but, im also concerned that most of my dvd collection is sd and will be upconverted through an oppo bd83 player. is the upconversion considerably better and much closer to bluray... or still a ways away?

Depends on the transfer some SD DVD 's look great but some are terrible. Both are far better than SD cable its just awful.

FWIW, good SD, like a good/clean DVD or the somewhat rare clean SD broadcast, looks quite good through my Planar. But it's SD so it's still noticeably softer than Blu-ray.

As far as upconverting I haven't seen the Oppo, but the Planar is at least as good as my Pioneer 51FD.

But from what I can tell it's very hard to tell what to expect for SD reproduction on FP systems based on other people's descriptions. What I mean is I think some people just simply won't be happy with SD on anything bigger than a 27" tube, while others (like me) have accepted SD for what it is and can be reasonably happy.

Final FWIW, I don't think the Planar does anything "wrong" when it comes to SD, though I suppose it's possible that a being a DLP and having the high MFT/ANSI/etc the deficiencies are more apparent than they would be on something softer.

Planar no longer has any 8150s left. A few 8130 remain available.

Final FWIW, I don't think the Planar does anything "wrong" when it comes to SD, though I suppose it's possible that a being a DLP and having the high MFT/ANSI/etc the deficiencies are more apparent than they would be on something softer.

i think maybe you hit the nail on the head. being dlp, perhaps its not as "smooth' or "film-like" (as some call it) as the lcos machines. i do tend to prefer a razor sharp (ie. "digital look") on a pj, but that may come at the expense of making sd look even worse.

Planar no longer has any 8150s left. A few 8130 remain available.

yup, i know... local "planar" dealers already are saying that any ordered units will be shipped as a runco ls-5.


oooh, do i wish so much that there was more light output from this baby. the colors are fantastic and the DI is excellent.

[QUOTE= the colors are fantastic and the DI is excellent.[/QUOTE]

After owning the planar 8150 I can tell you from experience that the colors are indeed very good but the DI is awful and needs work to become more transparent, I ended up having to switch mine off but that defeats the whole purpose.

After owning the planar 8150 I can tell you from experience that the colors are indeed very good but the DI is awful and needs work to become more transparent, I ended up having to switch mine off but that defeats the whole purpose.
You have a defective unit. Either exchange it if it is new or send it in if it is older but still under warranty. When the DI is working as it should it is undetectable except when switching between certain test patterns (like going from a BTB to WTW pattern).

You have a defective unit. Either exchange it if it is new or send it in if it is older but still under warranty. When the DI is working as it should it is undetectable except when switching between certain test patterns (like going from a BTB to WTW pattern).

Bob I purchased the Planar while I was remodeling the theater. The remodel was completely done just a few days before our usual guests were to arrive to spend the weekend with us. I fired up the projector and started watching a movie with my wife, I would notice that in some scenes the image would get dimmer then brighten again, sometimes even having a slight flicker to it, the flicker I attributed to the bulb breaking in. When I would turn off the DI this anamoly would stop. My previous projector was a Marantz 11S2 with the standard lens however since I moved the projector further back and was projecting from the other side of the wall in the theater the standard lens would no longer be sufficient to fill my 10' 2:35 screen while projecting through the Isco III so I decided to give the Planar 8150 a try and I did receive the new version which I confirmed with Planar. As well as noticing the distracting the DI I also noticed that the picture was not as sharp as the Marantz.


Back to my story....... sometimes we don't want to face the awful truth that we might be experiencing is buyers remorse so I tried to put it out of my mind and thought that maybe the projector was still breaking in, after all this was the Planar 8150, NO WAY could this be happening especially after hearing so many great reviews. Well my guests arrived on a Friday and we did our usual thing eating our dinner over good conversation. They did not know that we had remodeled the theater, I said nothing to them about any of it including the fact that I had changed the projector, as far as the husband who is also a home theater enthusiast is concerned I was still using the Marantz.

After seeing the projector they complimented us on a job well done and he especially liked the idea that the projector was now projecting from the other side of the room thus removing the heat from the room, he still could not tell the Marantz had been replaced by the Planar. We sat down and watched a movie, during the movie I could visually see the DI making certain scenes lighter and darker and I was pretty sure it was so apparent that there was no way he wasn't seeing the same thing.


The next morning at breakfast the husband asked what was wrong with the Marantz, I told him because of the new design change and the added cost of a new 11S2 with long throw lens I decided to go with the cheaper option which was the Planar. He said he noticed the DI iris working and that the 11s2 was much sharper and had better ansi contrast.

I called Planar and told them told them my experience and that I must have a bad unit, they said that they doubted I had a bad unit I insisted on talking to another tech and after convincing them that I am no novice a replacment unit was sent out. Well unfortunately I had the same experience and was quite dissapointed, the only way I could get the 8150 to be watchable was to turn off the DI which defeats the whole purpose of having a DI. After talking to others in the industry and other AVS members it seems that one needs to accept the fact that to one degree or another this is the nature of the beast with DI projectors.

The 8150 with the exception of sharpness and DI was a great machine, colors were exceptional, tracking close to D65 right out of the box and the brightness was very nice, easily lighting up my 10' Carada Brilliant white screen, also nice longer throw lens which worked great for me.

In the end I sold Planar 8150 and was fortunate enough to buy a demo Marantz VP15S1 with 140 hrs for $4200 shipped from an authorized dealer, WOW!!! I forgot how sharp the Marantz lenses are and with the long throw lens helping to give the Marantz close to 1000:1 ansi life is good again, the on/off might not be as good as the 8150 with DI but it was too distracting using the DI so I didn't use it anyway.

Sorry for the taking the long way around but I gave two 8150 units a chance and came away pretty dissapointed, I even took my anthem D2 and Lumagen xe out of the chain with no better results.

You have a defective unit. Either exchange it if it is new or send it in if it is older but still under warranty. When the DI is working as it should it is undetectable except when switching between certain test patterns (like going from a BTB to WTW pattern).

Bob. Your statement is incorrect (assuming you are referring to test patterns and you claim it cannot be seen in movies). Planar Engineering has confirmed that there are problems with it in certain scenes:



Here is the response from Engineering.

The flicker in that clip looks normal to me, and is a sign of the aperture changing position slightly during the scene. This change is usually not visible, but can be seen from time to time in scenes with large areas of uniform mid-gray levels such as the room background in this scene. The algorithm keys off of the brightest parts of the image, not the mid-gray levels, so those levels will change slightly whenever the aperture moves. This is an artifact of pretty much all dynamic aperture systems.

Andrew Morgen

Planar Systems


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Nielsen [mailto:petern@bmtmicro.com]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 6:44 AM
To: Andrew Morgen
Subject: Re: PD8150 Repaired


Hi Andrew,


After the repair my PD8150 now has much better black levels. However, I still see problems when DynamicBlack is enabled.

The following zip contains two video clips taken with my Canon G9 camera. The first clip (dynamicblack_on.avi) is taken with DynamicBlack enabled. The problem can clearly be seen between 4...6 seconds into the clip. The whole background pulsates a few times. The second clip (dynamicblack_off.avi) is with DynamicBlack disabled and does not show the problem. Note: the color shifting you see in both videos is caused by my camera and is not visible in real life.

http://www.pmview.com/planar/pd8150_dynamicblack.zip

The clip is from the DVD "13 going on 30", chapter 9 (approx 31 minutes into the movie).

The projector has the factory settings (I have not changed the settings since I got it back from you).

What's your thoughts on this?

Bob I purchased the Planar while I was remodeling the theater. The remodel was completely done just a few days before our usual guests were to arrive to spend the weekend with us. I fired up the projector and started watching a movie with my wife, I would notice that in some scenes the image would get dimmer then brighten again, sometimes even having a slight flicker to it, the flicker I attributed to the bulb breaking in. When I would turn off the DI this anamoly would stop.
Mine does not do that, not even once that I have found in normal viewing.

Bob. Your statement is incorrect. Planar Engineering has confirmed that there are problems with it:
Hmmm..Why is it that I don't have any problems? Nothing...nada.

And your included response does not seem to me to indicate that there is a problem with the DI. The phrases "The flicker in that clip looks normal to me" and "This is an artifact of pretty much all dynamic aperture systems." are not admissions of there being a problem. If you have managed to find one or two scenes where you notice a change in black level, then I am sad for you (and happy for me, as I haven't run into any problem scenes at all :) ). Admittedly, though, I don't spend my time scouring my collection to see if I can find a particular scene where I can trip up the DI.

Funlvr1965, I think that Planar's response indicates a condition that very rarely occurs and is not a common occurrence, as I have not seen the condition that you describe even once, and I would have been one of the most vocal complainers if I were seeing such a problem. If you saw the DI working as often as you indicate, then I am still convinced you had a second defective unit. Or you are MUCH more sensitive to changes in black level than I am.

Bob, do you see the flicker in this video clip:

http://www.pmview.com/planar/pd8150_dynamicblack.zip

The zip contains two video clips taken with my Canon G9 camera. The first clip (dynamicblack_on.avi) is taken with DynamicBlack enabled. The problem can clearly be seen between 4...6 seconds into the clip. The whole background pulsates a few times. The second clip (dynamicblack_off.avi) is with DynamicBlack disabled and does not show the problem. Note: the color shifting you see in both videos is caused by my camera and is not visible in real life.


I only have ~30 hours on my PD8150, so it's not like I've been looking for problems.

I can't use DI, because I see obvious problems with the picture when it's enabled.

The video clip shows the problem I see, and Planar says it's normal... What gives?

Mine does not do that, not even once that I have found in normal viewing.


Hmmm..Why is it that I don't have any problems? Nothing...nada.

And your included response does not seem to me to indicate that there is a problem with the DI. The phrases "The flicker in that clip looks normal to me" and "This is an artifact of pretty much all dynamic aperture systems." are not admissions of there being a problem. If you have managed to find one or two scenes where you notice a change in black level, then I am sad for you (and happy for me, as I haven't run into any problem scenes at all :) ). Admittedly, though, I don't spend my time scouring my collection to see if I can find a particular scene where I can trip up the DI.

Funlvr1965, I think that Planar's response indicates a condition that very rarely occurs and is not a common occurrence, as I have not seen the condition that you describe even once, and I would have been one of the most vocal complainers if I were seeing such a problem. If you saw the DI working as often as you indicate, then I am still convinced you had a second defective unit. Or you are MUCH more sensitive to changes in black level than I am.

Bob I will agree that we have different experiences with this unit, mine was disappointing,hopefully Planar will tighten up the iris some more include better optics in their next design

funlvr1965: I had the dimming issue too, combined with flicker. That was due to a defective iris.

Unfortuantely the new iris does not fully solve the problem with the flicker as the clip I posted clearly shows... The dimming went away though!

funlvr1965: I had the dimming issue too, combined with flicker. That was due to a defective iris.

Unfortuantely the new iris does not fully solve the problem with the flicker as the clip I posted clearly shows... The dimming went away though!

Planar also indicated to me that this was normal to some extent and that I might be sensitive to this issue and I should turn off the DI, not having a DI machine I felt that maybe this was the issue although I was a bit dissapointed. In other regards as I previously stated, for money this projector is hard to beat, maybe Im just too picky.

Peter, I have not watched that particular movie, but I have not seen anything even remotely close to what those clips show. I don't know if the clips are accurately representing your problem, but I am seeing all kinds of problems (color shifting, inaccurate colors, bad shading, some sort of flashing problem), though the clip with DB on is noticeably worse than with it off. I just added "13 Going On 30" to my Netflix Blu-ray queue and will take a look at it for you. I would not have lived with a PJ like that for even one day.

Bob, do you see the flicker in this video clip:

http://www.pmview.com/planar/pd8150_dynamicblack.zip

The zip contains two video clips taken with my Canon G9 camera. The first clip (dynamicblack_on.avi) is taken with DynamicBlack enabled. The problem can clearly be seen between 4...6 seconds into the clip. The whole background pulsates a few times. The second clip (dynamicblack_off.avi) is with DynamicBlack disabled and does not show the problem. Note: the color shifting you see in both videos is caused by my camera and is not visible in real life.


I only have ~30 hours on my PD8150, so it's not like I've been looking for problems.

I can't use DI, because I see obvious problems with the picture when it's enabled.

The video clip shows the problem I see, and Planar says it's normal... What gives?

That scene is atrocious wow!

I still can't believe people actually watch a movie with a DI engaged. I have yet to see one that wasn't obvious.

I think the camera was doing something funky in both those clips, the color balance seemed to change continuously throughout those clips and that's not something that (should be) happens, at least not on mine.

I still can't believe people actually watch a movie with a DI engaged. I have yet to see one that wasn't obvious.
Then you should see my 8150. It does everything right that Peter's clips did wrong. Like I said, I will test out that particular movie at that particular point, but I have yet to see ANYTHING that looks even 1/1000 as bad as those clips look.

stranger89,

You may have missed this disclaimer from his post.

Note: the color shifting you see in both videos is caused by my camera and is not visible in real life.

You may have missed this disclaimer from his post.
Yup, I missed that...:)

The color shifts are so bad that I really can't tell what is caused by the camera and what Peter is actually seeing on screen. Once again, I will wait until the rental comes in and look at the same clip on my system. I don't know what else to do, as I don't see any flashing or black level changes at all on my system with any of the films I have watched to date. I have about 500 hours on my 8150, pretty much all of it watching Blu-ray.

Yup, I missed that...:)

The color shifts are so bad that I really can't tell what is caused by the camera and what Peter is actually seeing on screen. Once again, I will wait until the rental comes in and look at the same clip on my system. I don't know what else to do, as I don't see any flashing or black level changes at all on my system with any of the films I have watched to date. I have about 500 hours on my 8150, pretty much all of it watching Blu-ray.

Maybe you and I should resort to the "Na na na, I can't hear you" at this point. I'm thinking I'm happier ignorant of some things :D

DI in my unit works perfect. I have never noted anything while watching the movies. Only way you can notice some slow change in brightness is with some change in patterns of the gray scale....and you have to look for it very carefully. But I only use gray patterns to calibrate the projector and when calibrating I don't use DI.

Bob what pattern you use to calibrate the sharpness in your projector?

Federico

The color shifts are so bad that I really can't tell what is caused by the camera and what Peter is actually seeing on screen.

Pay attention to the gray background 4...6 seconds into the clip and notice how it flickers.

I have about 500 hours on my 8150, pretty much all of it watching Blu-ray.

My guess is that the problem may be less obvious on Blu-ray. Unfortunately I don't have enough data to back that up, but so far I have not noticed any obvious problems on the few BRs that I own.

I'm currently remodelling the theater, but as soon as I'm done (hopefully in the next 2~3 weeks), I will check the same clip with the Oppo BR-83 that replaces the Denon 955S. Maybe the DVD player also has some impact... That remains to be seen.

Then you should see my 8150. It does everything right that Peter's clips did wrong. Like I said, I will test out that particular movie at that particular point, but I have yet to see ANYTHING that looks even 1/1000 as bad as those clips look.

What's really annoying is that Planar is saying it's normal and that all other units are like this. They say there's nothing wrong with it.

Apparently something is wrong with me :rolleyes:

It would be nice if someone else tested that very same DVD and told me the problem is not there (or is there). At least then I have something to tell Planar. Until then I have to take their word for that it's normal...

Planar also indicated to me that this was normal to some extent and that I might be sensitive to this issue and I should turn off the DI, not having a DI machine I felt that maybe this was the issue although I was a bit dissapointed. In other regards as I previously stated, for money this projector is hard to beat, maybe Im just too picky.

That's what Planar suggested to me too -- until I told them that my projector was making audible noise when DynamicBlack is enabled. That's when they suspected something is not right and wanted the unit in for service.

Neither my original or replacement unit made any audible noise, I just got the DI artifacts. Yea I felt the same way when Planar told me that there was nothing wrong with the machine, "something must be broken with me".

I was watching Public Enemy (Bluray) this weekend on my 8150 and there is a scene where they are checking into a hotel and over their shoulders there was signage on the wall. Some of the lettering on the wall was blinking almost like a back lit poster was being turned on and off. I returned the video to Netflix otherwise I would have shot a video.

The only film that I got distracting artifacts from the DI with the 8150 was The International. Near the end when Owen is grilling the guy in the basement there was some obvious clipping artifacts on Clive's nose that would go away if I turned the DI off. Aside from that, never much of an issue. I saw some slight pumping in Ratatouille, but only briefly. By far one of the least distracting DIs I've used, but not completely transparent.

Shane is looking at the Runco version that is out now. Guess we'll see what he says about the DI from his time with it in the review.

All DIs while have some artifacting. One might not notice them except in extreme cases. There are other films that one can notice some pumping on the Planar. But it is a very good implementation for a DI. In severe instances I would just shut it off. But most of the time its artifacts are not noticeable meaning the pluses outweigh the negatives.

As near as I can tell from all available data, lens that have irises inside them will lose MTF as the iris is stopped down. I know my Samsung does and I suspect the Planar will as well. Obviously, since a DI closes down the iris part of the time, I and others will shortly experiment with ND filters to determine there effect on MTF and on ANSI. The scientific literature concludes that glass ND filters have a MTF of one. My plan is to leave the iris wide open, not use the DI, and for films swing the ND into place. The machine should still be plenty bright using a 1 stop ND which of course will cut the light in half.f

I agree with the comments that no DI is perfect. When the Iris was broken, there was a night and day difference beween using DI or not using it. (When DI was disabled, black levels were so bad that I did not want to use the 8150 without DynamicBlack enabled).

After servicing the unit, the black level without DI improved tremendously. Now DI only offers a marginal improvement in black levels. IMHO the improvement the DI offers is so small that I clearly prefer the marginal loss in black level compared to occational artifacts caused by the DI...

Everything would be fine, but then someone claims that their unit is perfect and does not show any problems with DynamicBlack enabled. Makes you wonder... :confused:

Hi Peter,

Have you heard from my boy Brent lately?

My dealer was supposed to have ordered my Planar 8150 over a month ago but did not, now they don't have any! What am I going to do now. Is the Runco model the exact same projector or is it different. Please help me. I am really looking for a new Planar 8150, someone find me one!

My dealer was supposed to have ordered my Planar 8150 over a month ago but did not, now they don't have any! What am I going to do now. Is the Runco model the exact same projector or is it different. Please help me. I am really looking for a new Planar 8150, someone find me one!

Exact same projector and same list price. Different model/mfg stickers....

i know it has been stated many times before that the only difference between the 8150 and 8130 is contrast (and horizontal lens shift), but im wondering if the differences would really be visible to the eye in a light controlled room.

Exact same projector and same list price. Different model/mfg stickers....
I sure hope it is. My dealer ordered me the Runco LS-5. Does anyone have this model in their theater?

yes, that is the correct model number. the 8130 is the ls-3.

Ok, I watched "13 Going On 30" tonight...not exactly my cup of tea, but for you guys I decided to take one for the team...:)

First of all, the equipment used:

Planar 8150
ISCO III lens
132" wide 2.35:1 High Power screen (though the movie was shot in ~16:9 format, so I didn't use the entire width)
Onkyo PR-866 pre/pro (I only mention it because it was in the video chain)
Oppo BDP 83 Blu-ray player
Blu-ray version of "13 Going On 30"

This was not my idea of fun! I spent the entire time with my family just looking for problems...any kind of problems. I looked for changing black level, brightness compression, flashing screen...ANYTHING that would degrade picture quality. After all of that, I am happy to report that I could not find ANY problem whatsoever with the DI...nothing....nada....not the slightest hint that it was even working. It performed so well that I just had to to turn the DI off just to make sure that it was working....it was....:)

I even went back to the particular scene where Peter had the problem and played it over about a half dozen times....once again...NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.

I don't know what else to tell you. Watching movies this way sucks! I never relaxed and just watched the film because I was too busy looking for artifacts that never showed up. I just hope that I can now forget all of this and start enjoying my projector again. I want to watch movies, not look for problems...;)

I even went back to the particular scene where Peter had the problem and played it over about a half dozen times....once again...NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.

I'm not the least surprised: You used the Blu-ray version. It just proves my theory that the problem is less likely to occur with Blu-ray

To repeat my finding, you MUST use the DVD version of the movie. (Sorry, I thought I made this clear earlier on).

FWIW: Planar says that the condtion for the artifacts to occur is a large area of unform color. This condition is much less likely to occur on Blu-ray thanks to the higher resolution and better color depth this media offers. Consequently the same movies that trigger the DI problem when played back in DVD format may play back completely artifact free in Blu-ray...

So, yes, if you're using Blu-ray the DI artifacts indeed may be non-existent. However, for someone like me with 3 blurays and 1000+ DVDs in the collection, it's very hard to talk about bluray performance since that's not what I normally watch...

Ok, I watched "13 Going On 30" tonight...not exactly my cup of tea, but for you guys I decided to take one for the team...:)

First of all, the equipment used:

Planar 8150
ISCO III lens
132" wide 2.35:1 High Power screen (though the movie was shot in ~16:9 format, so I didn't use the entire width)
Onkyo PR-866 pre/pro (I only mention it because it was in the video chain)
Oppo BDP 83 Blu-ray player
Blu-ray version of "13 Going On 30"

This was not my idea of fun! I spent the entire time with my family just looking for problems...any kind of problems. I looked for changing black level, brightness compression, flashing screen...ANYTHING that would degrade picture quality. After all of that, I am happy to report that I could not find ANY problem whatsoever with the DI...nothing....nada....not the slightest hint that it was even working. It performed so well that I just had to to turn the DI off just to make sure that it was working....it was....:)

I even went back to the particular scene where Peter had the problem and played it over about a half dozen times....once again...NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.

I don't know what else to tell you. Watching movies this way sucks! I never relaxed and just watched the film because I was too busy looking for artifacts that never showed up. I just hope that I can now forget all of this and start enjoying my projector again. I want to watch movies, not look for problems...;)

Ouuch!! Man, are you saying you were able to make it through this movie without any chemically induced assistance? (Alcohol, Zoloft, pain killers, etc..). This is indeed torture...same level as water boarding for sure. We owe you a big one!!!!:D:D:D

To repeat my finding, you MUST use the DVD version of the movie. (Sorry, I thought I made this clear earlier on).
Ok, I will rent the DVD version, but I really don't expect it to make a difference. FWIW: Planar says that the condtion for the artifacts to occur is a large area of unform color. This condition is much less likely to occur on Blu-ray thanks to the higher resolution and better color depth this media offers.
Sorry, but I don't buy your theory. The gray background in the "killer scene" was both large and extremely uniform, just with higher resolution. I have a hard time believing that the difference between the DVD version and the Blu-ray version will be enough to trip up the DI, but we shall see. I think I am chasing ghosts at this point, but I will see this through to the end.
However, for someone like me with 3 blurays and 1000+ DVDs in the collection, it's very hard to talk about bluray performance since that's not what I normally watch...
I own over 1500 DVDs, and you know how many of them I now watch...ZERO. I am not replacing my entire collection with Blu-ray discs...just the ones I really like. I just *rent* Blu-rays continuously from Netflix. At the size screen that I have, DVDs are just totally uninteresting and not something that I want to watch. At this point in the video evolutionary path, I would never shell out for a Planar 8150 just to watch DVDs. I would recommend buying a Panasonic 4000 or Epson 8500 if that is your main interest.

Ouuch!! Man, are you saying you were able to make it through this movie without any chemically induced assistance? (Alcohol, Zoloft, pain killers, etc..). This is indeed torture...same level as water boarding for sure. We owe you a big one!!!!
Yes, it was horrible! I had my wife tie me to the recliner and pin my eyelids open....you know, sort of like in "A Clockwork Orange"....oh, the horror!

ha, well seeing that you have to watch it again now, i want to pass on my sympathies with you. enjoy!!!:D

As near as I can tell from all available data, lens that have irises inside them will lose MTF as the iris is stopped down. I know my Samsung does and I suspect the Planar will as well. Obviously, since a DI closes down the iris part of the time, I and others will shortly experiment with ND filters to determine there effect on MTF and on ANSI.f
The Planar's 'Dynamic black' Iris is not in the lens, it is in the light path between the color wheel and the imaging chip.

Just another Data point on the image issues. Was watching Battle Star Galactica - The Plan on bluray and found a scene where the image was pumping. So I did some experimenting and it turns out the pumping was a function of the Adaptive Contrast being turned on. If I turned it off the image was stable. Any insights on this problem? As I understand the function of Adaptive contrast is that it calculates mean luminance and adjusts contrast.

Maybe I should have know better to leave this feature off as I've done some more reading on the subject in reviews for other projectors. But It really made the blacks black.

Sorry, but I don't buy your theory. The gray background in the "killer scene" was both large and extremely uniform, just with higher resolution. I have a hard time believing that the difference between the DVD version and the Blu-ray version will be enough to trip up the DI.

What seems uniform to the human eye may not necessarily be uniform data. The more resolution the data has, the harder it is to conclude if it's uniform or not. It's possible that the DI logic will not show the same problems on the Blu-ray version

I own over 1500 DVDs, and you know how many of them I now watch...ZERO. I am not replacing my entire collection with Blu-ray discs...just the ones I really like. I just *rent* Blu-rays continuously from Netflix. At the size screen that I have, DVDs are just totally uninteresting and not something that I want to watch. At this point in the video evolutionary path, I would never shell out for a Planar 8150 just to watch DVDs. I would recommend buying a Panasonic 4000 or Epson 8500 if that is your main interest.

Well, I did spend close to $10k on an Schneider Anamorphic lens setup, so downgrading to the Panasonic 4000 sure makes sense :rolleyes:

I probably should upgrade to a Digital Projection Titan HD-250, but after spending $12k on a JVC G15 ten years ago, I did not want to spend that much on a unit that I probably will want to replace within the next 5 years anyway (LED technology sure looks promising)

What seems uniform to the human eye may not necessarily be uniform data. The more resolution the data has, the harder it is to conclude if it's uniform or not. It's possible that the DI logic will not show the same problems on the Blu-ray version
Yup, I understand all of that just fine, and it is with that in mind that I feel the extra data in the Blu-ray version would just serve to confuse the DI, while the "watered down" version on the DVD would be much easier to deal with. But we shall see next week when I get the DVD version from Netflix.
Well, I did spend close to $10k on an Schneider Anamorphic lens setup, so downgrading to the Panasonic 4000 sure makes sense
Ok, gotcha....I have an ISCO III anamorphic lens as well, so I understand why you would want a comparable projector. What I don't understand is why you are still watching DVDs, regardless of how much money you spent on the collection...:confused: The better my playback equipment, the better my sources need to be to appreciate the quality of my system. I am sorry that I (and you) spent countless dollars buying DVDs just to shelve them in favor of Blu-ray, but since I want to experience my home theater at its best, I prefer to watch the finest source material I can get my hands on...call me crazy!
I probably should upgrade to a Digital Projection Titan HD-250, but after spending $12k on a JVC G15 ten years ago, I did not want to spend that much on a unit that I probably will want to replace within the next 5 years anyway (LED technology sure looks promising)
Yup, a reasonably priced next gen LED machine might find its way into my HT if the performance is there, but the 8150 is good enough to last me until my next upgrade.

And I am not familiar with the performance of the Titan HD-250....what does it bring to the table that is missing from the 8150? It is 720p...4000:1 CR....but with lots of lumens. What makes it so special to you?

Just another Data point on the image issues. Was watching Battle Star Galactica - The Plan on bluray and found a scene where the image was pumping. So I did some experimenting and it turns out the pumping was a function of the Adaptive Contrast being turned on. If I turned it off the image was stable. Any insights on this problem? As I understand the function of Adaptive contrast is that it calculates mean luminance and adjusts contrast.

Maybe I should have know better to leave this feature off as I've done some more reading on the subject in reviews for other projectors. But It really made the blacks black.

Hmmm... makes one wonder if funlvr1965 and Peter Nielsen had the Adaptive Contrast turned on and was the cause of the dimming/brightening they saw.

Hmmm... makes one wonder if funlvr1965 and Peter Nielsen had the Adaptive Contrast turned on and was the cause of the dimming/brightening they saw.
I tried AC and didn't like it at all, so it has been turned off since the second day I owned my 8150....just another data point.

What didn't you like about it?

Does it crush blacks and blow out the whites?

What didn't you like about it?

Does it crush blacks and blow out the whites?
To be honest with you, I don't remember exactly, as it was quite a long time ago that I tried it. All I remember was that it created some strange artifacts, so I turned it off and never looked back.

I'll give it another go tonight and let you know what I see...:)

Thanks, Bob.

The 8150 I have on order from AVS is supposed to ship out tomorrow but I may cancel the order. If the Runco LS5 is the same $$$$, I think I'd be better off with a Runco branded pj when it comes time to sell it in a couple of years. Granted, I'll still be taking a bath on the resale but less so due to the Runco name.

Yup, I understand all of that just fine, and it is with that in mind that I feel the extra data in the Blu-ray version would just serve to confuse the DI, while the "watered down" version on the DVD would be much easier to deal with. But we shall see next week when I get the DVD version from Netflix.

You're absolutely right in your thinking. In this case I believe confusing the DI is a good thing. It's the uniform (="watered down") background that is causing the flicker.

Ok, gotcha....I have an ISCO III anamorphic lens as well, so I understand why you would want a comparable projector. What I don't understand is why you are still watching DVDs, regardless of how much money you spent on the collection...

Anything new I buy is Blu-Ray (if available). However, I still have a lot of DVDs that I haven't watched.

I wonder how long it takes until we see a BluRay version of Babylon 5 that is worth paying for...

but since I want to experience my home theater at its best, I prefer to watch the finest source material I can get my hands on...call me crazy!

I agree, but hardly everything is available on BluRay...

Yup, a reasonably priced next gen LED machine might find its way into my HT if the performance is there, but the 8150 is good enough to last me until my next upgrade.

I feel the same. Even without using the DI it's an excellent projector! (I know I should just keep the DI turned off, and I would be totally happy and not whine about it :D What's bugging me is that I'm still not convinced if what I see is 100% normal or not, or if there's still something wrong with my unit...)

And I am not familiar with the performance of the Titan HD-250....what does it bring to the table that is missing from the 8150? It is 720p...4000:1 CR....but with lots of lumens. What makes it so special to you?

Correct. Lots of lumens would be the advantage. Cleary not worth the additional cost since we will probably see very bright LED projectors within the next few years...

Peter

Hmmm... makes one wonder if funlvr1965 and Peter Nielsen had the Adaptive Contrast turned on and was the cause of the dimming/brightening they saw.

Nope. AC off. The guys at Planar don't recommend using it. I asked them why it's there, and their answer was "Some people like it". However, for correct image reproduction it should be disabled...

I should point out that I have sent the video clip to Planar. They have seen it, and they say it "looks normal". I have no problem accepting that, assuming that the same source material causes the same issue on other units too...

I spoke with Jason earlier this morning and inquired about switching my order to the LS5. He said even though MSRP on the 8150 and LS5 are the same, it would cost more due to the higher margin required by Runco.

I decided to go ahead with the 8150. Hopefully, it'll be here by Thursday and I'll be able to post my impressions over the weekend.

I'll get that "13 Going On 30" DVD from Blockbuster if anyone cares to send me a couple of tabs of Zoloft. ;)

Hmmm... makes one wonder if funlvr1965 and Peter Nielsen had the Adaptive Contrast turned on and was the cause of the dimming/brightening they saw.

Nope...AC was turned off, it apppears to provide better blacks but in fact it crushes the blacks as has been observed by others.

I should point out that I have sent the video clip to Planar. They have seen it, and they say it "looks normal". I have no problem accepting that, assuming that the same source material causes the same issue on other units too...

Peter I also sent in a video clip to the planar techs, they also thought it was normal, but they sent me a replacement anyway since after talking to me they realized I was not novice at this. As I said before the replacment showed the same artifacts. Not sure why we have such a division of experiences except to say that maybe after some of the complaints started rolling in about the DI artifacts they went back and made some adjustments.

funlvr1965,

How long ago did you purchase your 8150? I think Bob bought his pretty early in the production run. Mine is likely to be one of the last Planar branded pj's. Jason received them in mid-Dec but I delayed the shipping until just after Christmas.

I'm definitely curious about this artifact and whether or not it will bother me. If it's a rare as most here have said, I think I'll be fine with it.

The Adaptive Contrast is provided by and is in the Gennum chip. Just like all the noise reduction functions. The Gennum chip allows many steps of strength for the adaptive contrast function. The Lumagen Radiance which also uses the Gennum chip for deinterlacing and noise reduction and some other functions provides the user to select what step of Adaptive Contrast to use should te user elect to use aAaptive Contrast and provides a before and after (center portion of the image) to allow the user tojudge its effects. Planar chose not to allow the user to select a step strength defaulting to what I think is about step3 on the Lumagen. When i watch sports,I generally have Adaptive Contrast set to step one on the Lumagen (when I had the 8150 I shut it off on the 8150 and used it at step one on the Radiance). Tome stepone brightens the picture giving the sense that say a basketball wood floor has been washed. Tome it makes a brightly lit sports field or area look a little more realistic.Setting it higher on the Radiance makes things less realistic. Not very scientific but that is what I have found.

Here is a description of Dynamic Black from Bob Williams:
"Here is a summary of the DynamicBlack process in the PD8150 and PD8130.

When turned on, full field contrast levels are boosted approximately 3x. To do this, 3 steps occur for every frame of content:

1. The image is analyzed for brightness content
2. If the image does not use the full range of brightness, the range will be expanded to fit the range of the DMD. This is similar to an auto leveling function of photo editors like Photoshop.
3. An aperture is closed to one of more than 200 possible positions so that the peak brightness matches the original (pre-expanded) image. This means that even though light is being blocked by the aperture, the apparent brightness of the image does not appear to change."
As described Dynamic Black is really a combinantion of Dynamic Black and Dynamic Iris.
In my unit it does exactly as described by Bon Williams.
When I'm adjusting bright level in my unit it doesn't matter to me if I can't see level 18 IRE because I'm adjusting with the Dynamic Black off then when I turn it on I will see level 18 IRE. I don't use adaptive contras nor Brilliant color, they both produce a extrange artifact.

Federico

How long ago did you purchase your 8150? I think Bob bought his pretty early in the production run. Mine is likely to be one of the last Planar branded pj's. Jason received them in mid-Dec but I delayed the shipping until just after Christmas.

FWIW, I purchased Jasons PD8150 review unit. Strangely enough, Jason had not even noticed the iris was defective! If I recall correctly, I got it in May or June 2008.

I'm definitely curious about this artifact and whether or not it will bother me. If it's a rare as most here have said, I think I'll be fine with it.

You can always turn off DynamicBlack. That solves the problem completely ;)

It is not surprising it wasn`t noticed because during calibrations and before and after measuring DIs or DBs as well as adaptive contrasts etc are supposed to be turned of.

FWIW, I purchased Jasons PD8150 review unit. Strangely enough, Jason had not even noticed the iris was defective! If I recall correctly, I got it in May or June 2008.

Yours is definitely one of the earlier units produced. I can't remember if you posted it but is your firmware current?


You can always turn off DynamicBlack. That solves the problem completely ;)

Turning Dynamic Black off defeats one of my main reasons for getting the 8150. Honestly, if I had to do that, I'd rather get a Marantz 15S1. ;)

Tonight I watched the Blu-ray version of Gamer and as an experiment I turned on Brilliant Color and Adaptive Contrast, both of which I normally leave turned off. Even though the blacks and whites were a bit crushed, I thought the overall PQ was outstanding! I compared the same scenes with AC turned off and I found that the blacks and whites are a bit crushed in the encoding, but there was a definite little bit of extra crushing taking place with AC turned on. The difference was very small and all in all with this particular film I preferred having all 3 (DB, BC, and AC) turned on.

This film really is a gauntlet for projectors, though, as it has lots of very dark scenes, lots of very dark scenes with bright elements, lots of extremely bright scenes, lots of very colorful scenes, and lots of fast transitions from very dark to very bright and vice versa. I really expected that the DI would have a hard time and would show some sort of defect here, but to my pleasant surprise it handled this film effortlessly and without any noticeable pumping, brightness compression, "flashing" or any other artifact that I could imagine. It looked simply superb!...:)

Tomorrow I should have the DVD version of 13 Going On 30 here and I will be sure to test out the killer scene thoroughly.

Turning Dynamic Black off defeats one of my main reasons for getting the 8150. Honestly, if I had to do that, I'd rather get a Marantz 15S1. ;)

And this is exactly what I did, I traded the slightly better blacks of the 8150 which I couldnt use anyway (iris turne off) for the sharper minolta optics and approx 1000:1 ansi contrast of the long throw lens. :D

funlvr1965,

How long ago did you purchase your 8150? I think Bob bought his pretty early in the production run. Mine is likely to be one of the last Planar branded pj's. Jason received them in mid-Dec but I delayed the shipping until just after Christmas.

I'm definitely curious about this artifact and whether or not it will bother me. If it's a rare as most here have said, I think I'll be fine with it.

It was sometime in the summer, I want to say around June/July period

It was sometime in the summer, I want to say around June/July period
I think I bought mine around the same time.

I can see funlvr's position on this. I know some are far more sensitive to DI artifacts than others. I can count how many times the DI on the Planar was noticeable for me on one hand, and that's after months of use. But it wasn't completely transparent.

The Marantz projectors had incredible ANSI and there is no denying how sharp they are (though I think the Samsung edges them out here). My issue there was a lack of CMS and gamma options. Contrast can be better on all of the projectors out there so that wasn't as much of a deal breaker though I know I couldn't go back to that level of performance in black now that I've been using an RS35 for awhile.

I'm just glad funlver managed to find something he is happy with and that works in his system. In the end that is the most important thing, regardless of specs and forum hype.

Yours is definitely one of the earlier units produced. I can't remember if you posted it but is your firmware current?

Yes.

I watched chapter 9 of the DVD version 13 Going On 30 tonight with all 3 (DB, AC, and BC) turned on and I saw no flashing whatsoever. I must qualify that statement, though, as I was constantly bothered by the lack of resolution, lack of color depth, the obvious compression artifacts, and video noise to such a degree that it I had a difficult time trying to spot something as "subtle" as flashing. At the size that I watch things, DVD quality is unbearable and I would never consider watching ANY movie in that format.

I also noted that the gray background in the hallway of the killer scene looked far more uniform in the Blu-ray version than it did on the DVD version. The changing colors of the background in Peter's clip, though exacerbated by his movie camera, were indeed present in the source, though to a lesser degree. DVD sucks!!! I played the scene both on my Oppo BDP-83 and on my HTPC with identical results.

If there was any flashing on my Planar, I could not see it. The only time I have seen the DI work is when I switch from a 100% white pattern to a 0% black pattern instantly. When I do that that, I can see the black level change as the DI closes. I have never seen that same effect happen in real world material to date, though I suppose it could happen under extreme conditions.

Peter,

I'm trying to understand your situation. Yesterday you posted a response to my question asking when you purchased your 8150:

FWIW, I purchased Jasons PD8150 review unit. Strangely enough, Jason had not even noticed the iris was defective! If I recall correctly, I got it in May or June 2008.

You can always turn off DynamicBlack. That solves the problem completely


On page 2 of this thread you posted:

No. I have to disable DynamicBlack. If I enable DynamicBlack I see light (brighness) pulsing in certain movie scenes...

FWIW, I come from DLA but I have yet not seen a single rainbow in the 8150. However, the DynamicBlack is completely useless to me. If I turn it on, it will aggrevate me within 1-2 movies!

The effect is very dependent on the source material - I have gotten through select movies without being annoyed at all, but then in some movies the pulsation is so apparent that it almost makes me believe the projector is defective. Turning off DynamicBlack solves the problem.

I do have an early sample of the projector (March 2008), albeit with the latest firmware installed. Maybe my projector needs new hardware updates...?


On page 3 you posted:

Right on the spot! My unit is defective.

I received a replacement from Planar today, and it does not show any of the annoying problems I had with DynamicBlack on my unit.

I talked to Brian @ Planar, and he told me that the most notable improvement they have made to the projectors is tying down cables and connectors better so that they don't come loose in shipping. (He believes this is what's wrong with my early production unit too).
Kris observation about better image might be related to improved factory calibration procedures, according to Brian. He said the optics and electronics is he same and has not undegone any changes.

Do I understand correctly that your original unit was defective and replaced a year later by Planar? And the new unit was working correctly and now it isn't?

Is there more than one way to ship a package by UPS ground?

A couple of months ago I sent my Infocus 7210 by UPS ground to their repair facility in Louisville, Kentucky and it was delivered in 36 hours so I had AVS ship the 8150 by ground thinking 72 hours would be plenty of time to get it here by today but apparently that's not the case.

The UPS site shows my 8150 is scheduled for delivery on Tuesday, January 05, 8 days after they received it. It was picked up from AVS Monday evening, Dec 28 and left Buffalo Tuesday @ 8:12 am and there are no other scans after that.

Kinda sucks, I'm on vacation this week and was looking forward to installing it today and spending some quality time with it over the weekend.

ouch. When I was in Jacksonville, FL, it took two to three days for things ordered from AVS to make it to me shipping UPS ground.

Jax is only 4 hours north. I should of had it shipped to a UPS facility there. I could have driven up and been back before the New Year begins. :D

Jax is only 4 hours north. I should of had it shipped to a UPS facility there. I could have driven up and been back before the New Year begins. :D
According to the UPS website, transit time for ground delivery is four business days from Buffalo to anywhere in Florida. Tuesday, the 5th, makes sense. If it were not for the holiday, you would probably have it by Monday.

I am projecting from 17 feet away on a 128" 2.4:1 StudioTek 130 Stewart screen, room is a dedicated and totally dark . Do you guys think I can get away with the lamp in Economy mode?

you can get away with anything, but it will be very dim imo. some people like it this way, but not me. i want to buy this pj becuase it does so many things right, but its light output has steered me away since i too have a 128" screen. even in high lamp mode, it will be "fine" with a new bulb but too dim after some usage. this is of course, just MY opinion. im sure others here will disagree.

you can get away with anything, but it will be very dim imo. some people like it this way, but not me. i want to buy this pj becuase it does so many things right, but its light output has steered me away since i too have a 128" screen. even in high lamp mode, it will be "fine" with a new bulb but too dim after some usage. this is of course, just MY opinion. im sure others here will disagree.
Anthony,
if your HT is light controlled, the 8150 should be plenty bright on 1.3 gain screen. At std setting for the lamp, I have an increbible amount of light reflected off the screen and I find it a bit distracting...that is why I am asking about the Economy mode. Lamp has 350 hrs on it.

I am projecting from 17 feet away on a 128" 2.4:1 StudioTek 130 Stewart screen, room is a dedicated and totally dark . Do you guys think I can get away with the lamp in Economy mode?

Start out in economy mode and watch a few movies with it. Don't try high mode. See if YOU like it. That is what is important. Some people HAVE to have crazy brightness, but at the end of the day your room is YOUR room and the only thing that matters is how YOU feel about it. If you think it looks bright enough in economy, go with it. People shouldn't look so much to a forum to make up their mind for them. Getting advice on equipment is one thing, making decisions on what is right for your entertainment is silly. At the end of the day the only one that can decide what is right and enjoyable for you, is you.

According to the UPS website, transit time for ground delivery is four business days from Buffalo to anywhere in Florida. Tuesday, the 5th, makes sense. If it were not for the holiday, you would probably have it by Monday.

UPS received it from AVS on Monday the 28th. Wouldn't four business days be the the 4th?

UPS received it from AVS on Monday the 28th. Wouldn't four business days be the the 4th?
Makes sense, but I was going by your remark that it "left Buffalo Tuesday @ 8:12 am" and counting four business days from Tuesday. From my dealings with UPS, my guess is if AVS had sent it out earlier on Monday instead of on Monday evening, it would be scheduled to arrive on the 4th.

I had to wait six days for my RS20 to arrive from AVS, even though I am in the one-day delivery zone from Buffalo. It was because it came on this week one year ago and UPS considered the day after Christmas to be a holiday and that was followed by a weekend. I think UPS also considered Christmas Eve Day to be a holiday.

I guess we can consider it as a lesson learned. ;)

Funny thing is, Jason was willing to ship it mid Dec and extend my return option until Jan 15 but I knew I would be swamped at work and simply wouldn't have the time. Instead of suffering the temptation to have a quick peek everytime I saw the box sitting in my home, I delayed the shipping until the 28th. :o

Hi all, Just joined the growing list of PD8150 owners. Got mine new from Jason here at AVS last month on Dec 02. I also installed a new Carada 118"X50" 2.35:1 BW screen at the same time. The system this replaced was a Optoma HD65 projector and a 110" 16x9 Da-Lite HP screen. Took a little while to appreciate the picture because it looked quite a bit different, (better dark scene performance, no more rainbows, etc) but when I did, I'm glad I made the upgrades. Big improvement over my old system! Really like the impact the larger screen provides when watching a scope movie. Thanks everyone for all the great and usefull info that led me to this purchase.

UPS received it from AVS on Monday the 28th. Wouldn't four business days be the the 4th?

I had several deliveries coming in during that time and noticed an oddity: It looks like both FedEx and UPS treated the 31st as a non-business day.

I had two regular deliveries that normally *always* arrive in 2 days. Shipped on Tuesday, but arrived next Monday. Thursday 31st definitely was not a "regular" delivery day although it probably should be. (It looks like they did no ground deliveries on the 31st, but next day, 2nd day, etc was delivered like normally).

Hi all, Just joined the growing list of PD8150 owners. Got mine new from Jason here at AVS last month on Dec 02. I also installed a new Carada 118"X50" 2.35:1 BW screen at the same time. The system this replaced was a Optoma HD65 projector and a 110" 16x9 Da-Lite HP screen. Took a little while to appreciate the picture because it looked quite a bit different, (better dark scene performance, no more rainbows, etc) but when I did, I'm glad I made the upgrades. Big improvement over my old system! Really like the impact the larger screen provides when watching a scope movie. Thanks everyone for all the great and usefull info that led me to this purchase.
TSB49,
are you using an anamorphic lens, or doing the zooming thing?

Can't really do the zoom thing since the lens shift is allen wrench operated.

ha. how about a motorized allen wrench?;)

I don`t think its an Allen wrench. The wrench has a different head than an Allen, doesn`t it?

shumi_9

I am not using an anamorphic lens. Per the installation/operation manual, I installed the projector on the ceiling about 18' 4'' from the front of the lens to the top of the screen. When I zoom back and forth from 1.78 to 2.35 ratios I do not re-adjust the lens mechanical offset. After zooming there will be a black bar that is above the picture. In the OSD menu under advanced, fine sync, vertical position, that bar can be eliminated by shifting the picture up. You now have a full picture (no bars) on a 2.35:1 screen just by using the zoom ring and the remote for the vertical repositioning. The one thing that is necessary for this to work is to feed the projector a 1080p signal, and select native in the menu. If you don't you won't be able to shift the picture up enough to get rid of the black bar. The allen wrench is a 5mm ball socket end wrench. The ball socket is not really required. It just allows you to reach the adjusting screw on a angle if required.

I don`t think its an Allen wrench. The wrench has a different head than an Allen, doesn`t it?

haha yup, good call mark. allen "key".

Anthony:

Maybe you should consider the sony as well since it apparently has a little more ansi than the jvc, better on/off than the dlps, and a working FI.

I'd prefer a nice recent DLP with a working FI but there are none out there. I'm leaning towards the Sony myself for the above reasons.

I don`t think its an Allen wrench. The wrench has a different head than an Allen, doesn`t it?

It's just an allen/hex "key" with the ball type end on it. Instead of the standard strait end.

shumi_9

I am not using an anamorphic lens. Per the installation/operation manual, I installed the projector on the ceiling about 18' 4'' from the front of the lens to the top of the screen. When I zoom back and forth from 1.78 to 2.35 ratios I do not re-adjust the lens mechanical offset. After zooming there will be a black bar that is above the picture. In the OSD menu under advanced, fine sync, vertical position, that bar can be eliminated by shifting the picture up. You now have a full picture (no bars) on a 2.35:1 screen just by using the zoom ring and the remote for the vertical repositioning. The one thing that is necessary for this to work is to feed the projector a 1080p signal, and select native in the menu. If you don't you won't be able to shift the picture up enough to get rid of the black bar. The allen wrench is a 5mm ball socket end wrench. The ball socket is not really required. It just allows you to reach the adjusting screw on a angle if required.

Nicely done indeed...enjoy!

Anthony:

Maybe you should consider the sony as well since it apparently has a little more ansi than the jvc, better on/off than the dlps, and a working FI.

I'd prefer a nice recent DLP with a working FI but there are none out there. I'm leaning towards the Sony myself for the above reasons.

i did look into the sony as well but again, calibrated light output was more or less like the planar. under 600 lumens, and seeing that i have a 128" AT screen, i really need all the brightness i can get. the optoma is the only other pj that has the lumens, pop and blacks that would make it a winner. unfortunately, im uneasy with its past track record on reliability and the iris is a mixed bag. many here say its awesome, but some reviews did say otherwise so it may be dependant on the individual. i think the rs35 is my best bet at this time.

A Planar pj was finally delivered to my office today. I happened to be outside when the UPS truck pulled up and cheerfully greeted the driver. I watched with anticipation as he unloaded a large box with the Planar name emblazoned on it's sides. I happily signed for it and thanked the driver who proceeded to quickly drive away.

As I reached down to pick up the box, my eyes landed on some small numbers....8130. :eek: What was this? An 8130? That can't be right, I thought to myself as I quickly looked over the box for the numbers 8150 but they were nowhere to be found. I had just signed for a pj I didn't order. :(

After a couple of calls to AVS and speaking with Jason, everything seems to have been straightened out. Apparently, Planar had mistakenly sent an 8130 in their last shipment of 8150's to AVS and it was in turn, shipped out to me.
Jason said a call tag will be issued from Planar for the 8130 and since it was a mistake made by Planar and there are no more 8150's to be had, I will be receiving a Runco LS-5 instead. A shipment from Runco is expected by AVS next week and if all goes well, I should receive one of those the following week.

A Planar pj was finally delivered to my office today. I happened to be outside when the UPS truck pulled up and cheerfully greeted the driver. I watched with anticipation as he unloaded a large box with the Planar name emblazoned on it's sides. I happily signed for it and thanked the driver who proceeded to quickly drive away.

As I reached down to pick up the box, my eyes landed on some small numbers....8130. What was this? An 8130? That can't be right, I thought to myself as I quickly looked over the box for the numbers 8150 but they were nowhere to be found. I had just signed for a pj I didn't order.

After a couple of calls to AVS and speaking with Jason, everything seems to have been straightened out. Apparently, Planar had mistakenly sent an 8130 in their last shipment of 8150's to AVS and it was in turn, shipped out to me.
Jason said a call tag will be issued from Planar for the 8130 and since it was a mistake made by Planar and there are no more 8150's to be had, I will be receiving a Runco LS-5 instead. A shipment from Runco is expected by AVS next week and if all goes well, I should receive one of those the following week.

I am anxious to hear how you like your Runco LS-5. I ordered a Planar 8150 also but my dealer got the order in too late so I am also set to receive an LS-5 and have the rest of my theater done by the end of the month. The projector is the same as the Planar but I think you and I will be the first to receive one.

It's just an allen/hex "key" with the ball type end on it. Instead of the standard strait end.

Really... It's supposed to be the semi-exotic ball-end?

Jason lost my key, and Planar never got back to my request for the key (they seemed very confused by the whole notion of me not getting the key in the first place), so I've been using a regular, non-ball end allen metric key since day one... (Fortunately I have a full set of metric tools since I lived in Europe).

I just read Kris Deering's post on the sharpness of the RS-35 compared to the Planar, Sony and Samsung. When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.

Thanks

I own the 8150. Sharp like hell.

multiblitz, are you using sharp control in simple or advance mode?

Federico

I just read Kris Deering's post on the sharpness of the RS-35 compared to the Planar, Sony and Samsung. When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.

Thanks

yes this was my experience with both 8150 units I had.

Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect.
For me it was a piece of cake. I am meticulous in making sure that the projector lens is properly centered and exactly perpendicular to the screen so that geometry is perfect and focus is as consistent as possible everywhere on the screen. Since the focus is manual, you have much greater control (in my opinion) than you do with motorized focus, but the problem is that you need to be up close to the screen to focus properly, while you have to move the focus ring at the projector. The solution is simple...just use a pair of binoculars. As far as the physical action of the focus ring, I find it to be very smooth and easy to control, making proper focus a breeze.

Other than employing a solid, well thought out installation, there are really no other "tricks" that I know of to properly focus ANY projector. I believe in getting the most optical sharpness possible, and I don't use the "sharpness" control at all as I feel that electronically enhancing the sharpness produces artifacts of its own.

Yeah, can't say I've noticed any focus uniformity problems, at least none that can be attributed to the Planar as opposed to my screen (which I need to re-tighten). The one thing I can think of that might make it "tricky" is the lens shift, that would add a couple more variables to the alignment equation, but nothing you can't overcome.

When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.FWIW, here's the full text of what I said about focussing the 8150:

"There was very little chromatic aberration (color fringing), but there was significant focus non-uniformity in the upper half of the screen (table mounted projector) with maximum vertical lens shift. With the lens positioned at the edge of the screen I still had to adjust the focus very carefully to optimize sharpness over the entire screen area. If I were permanently mounting the projector I would have tried to locate the lens a little closer to the vertical center of the screen. Single-pixel black and white lines in a 1080p burst were fully resolved, but lines and edges were not as sharp as those displayed by the best lenses of more expensive projectors."

Yeah, my 8150 is mounted pretty much "dead nuts center" (that's technical jargon...:) ) both vertically and horizontally to the screen, so focus variation due to lens shift is not an issue.

I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top. Is this not the case?


Edit - From page 32 of the owners manual:

Ideally, the projector should be positioned perpendicular to the screen and in such a way that the lens center is aligned with either the top or bottom edge of the screen area, and centered horizontally. See Figure 3-3.

I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top. Is this not the case?
Yes, you are correct, but when I designed my room, the shelf for the projector was built "dead nuts center" to the screen, as I had to make a decision where to build the shelf, and my thoughts were that most any projector with lens shift should look pretty good at that position, regardless of what projector I installed. It is a compromise decision, like many other decisions regarding HT design, but it seems to be a pretty good all around choice. It may not be the perfect choice for the 8150, but I have not run into any focus issues with that particular choice.

I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top.

He/Planar might have said that, but I don't see how asymmetric projection can rightfully be called neutral in an optical sense; that would be everything centered.

The phrase "neutral position" may have never been posted. It was my simple recollection of the gist of what I had read and why I edited my post to reflect what the owners manual actually states:


Ideally, the projector should be positioned perpendicular to the screen and in such a way that the lens center is aligned with either the top or bottom edge of the screen area, and centered horizontally. See Figure 3-3.

Sorry Gregr, it was a while ago when I read the review. I guess I need to make sure and get the projector as center to the top of the screen as possible.

I own the 8150. Sharp like hell.

Multiblitz, is your projector really that bad, or do you mean sharp as hell.

I've had my Runco LS-5 for a few months now and have been meaning to post my thoughts on it. Due to a change in jobs and lifes other commitments, I haven't really had a lot of spare time on my hands.

I have the pj ceiling mounted and centered precisely with the screen. The projector is level, vertically and horizontally. Distance from the lens to a 120" diagonal screen is 18' 3" (2.1 throw ratio). The top of the screen is 14.25" from the ceiling, as is the center of the LS-5 lens.

My room is 23'L x 15'W x 9'H and has off white ceilings and carpeting but very dark burgandy walls and black velvet curtains. Lighting is provided by 4 can lights (60W each), 2 in the middle and 2 in the back of the room. Even turned all the way up, it's still pretty dark up behind the pj so I was slightly disappointed to find that the led on the back of the pj that is supposed to provide some extra light didn't work. The LS-5 differs in looks from the 8150. The glossy black case has been changed to one with a matte black finish.

When I first fired up the pj, I was shocked to hear that it was as loud as my old Infocus 7210 that I run in economy mode. After using some vertical lens shift to lower the image quite a bit, a quick look at the menus and I saw that the LS-5 was in standard lamp mode. I quickly switched to economy mode and after a brief moment, the fan dropped to a much lower speed and I was thankfull for the practically silent purr that ensued. The sound eminating from the pj was barely audible now and that made me quite happy indeed.

It was time to align the image with my screen and I have to say again that I was disappointed. I've read that the mechanism used for shifting the lens was nice and tight and I found it to be just the opposite. I found quite a bit of slop in the gearing. Go in one direction too far up or down and you have to turn the allen wrench almost 3/4's of a turn in the other direction before the image starts to shift.

When using the horizontal shift I found that the lens would also move up and down as I applied or released any torque on the allen wrench. Needless to say but it took me a good hour of going back and forth before I was completely satisfied. My 7210 which has no lens shift (I use a Premeire Mount that provides easy yaw, pitch and roll adjustments) took maybe 30 minutes to get it right.

The pj's menu structure remains essentially the same but the names for Brilliant Color and Dynamic Black have been changed to SatCo and ConstantContrast. I leave BrilliantColor and Adaptive Contrast off and Dynamic Black on.

My screen is a SilverStar, around 3 gain depending on reviews. With my 7210 I used a Hoya HMC ND2 filter to get better black levels but it was optional and I could easily have gone without it. With the LS-5 it's mandatory. The image is so bright that it's fatiguing to watch otherwise. Using the LS-5 with an ND2 filter is a different story though and makes for quite an enjoyable image to my eyes. The image is bright but not overly so and even though the pj easily fails the hand puppet test in my setup, black looks black enough during actual film content. The added benefit to using the filter is when I hit around 1000 hours, I can remove it and it'll be like putting in a new bulb.

I have about 70 hours on the projector and have only noticed the iris working a few times on rolling credits at the end of a movie. I've looked for it in quite a few places that people have mentioned trips up other pj's dynamic irises and since I've yet to see it working during actual film content on the LS-5, I've basically stopped looking for it.

The image seems a good bit sharper than my 7210 but I'm sure the higher resolution has a little something to do with this perception of additional clarity. The 7210 was noted for good colors and skin tones and I find the LS-5 to be just as good. The LS-5 may be technically more accurate in this regard but I can't really see it and I'm totally fine with that. I was more than satisfied with the 7210 for color accuracy and as long as the LS-5 was at least as good as it was, I knew I'd be happy and I am.

I really like the LS-5 and find it a worthy upgrade to my 7210 but I do have some issues with this particular pj and think I have a faulty unit. I have some shading errors and think it may be due to a bad processor of some kind. The left side of the image is darker than the right. When changing resolutions, the menus or internal test patterns the leftt side of the image goes gray/green for a few seconds and lags behind the left side and remains slightly darker.

Also, I have a few diagonal streaks radiating from the upper right hand side of the image towards the center of the screen. At first I thought it was my screen but it's not. The streaks move with the image if I tilt the pj up or down or side to side.

I bought the pj from AVS and they stand behind what they sell so I know I won't have a problem and this will be made right. Before I give Jason a call, I was just curious if anyone else has ever seen this?

A few more shots:

I have a Runco LS-5 also and am very happy with it. No problems with my unit. here are a couple of reviews for anyone who cares.http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors-products-menu-column2-46/784-runco-ls-5-projector.html?start=2.http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/runco_ls-5_dlp_projector/index1.html

smithfarmer,

I just got an LS-5 and do not see any shading or lines on my unit as yours shows. From your photos I'd agree that there is definitely a problem. Did you notice the issues from the beginning or did they develop over time?

Hard to tell from the photos if the light/dark is split precisely down the middle -- if so you might check that you don't have the PIP Split Screen mode active. I understand that this applies User Memory 2 settings (those related to the image processor) to the left half of the image. While this could cause light/dark sides, I don't see how it'd be the source of the radial lines that you are seeing.

When installing, I did have the same experience as you regarding the lens shift -- horizontal and vertical are not completely independent. Good thing is that the lens seems to remain stable once set.

I've only put on a few hours, but I'm extremely pleased with what I see thus far. Big improvement over my Samsung H710 in terms of sharpness, contrast, and black level. The only downside I see so far is a slight light leakage that appears on very dark scenes (mainly dark test patterns) where there is a dim ring of light that shows outside the projection area. It's not noticeable in most normal content, but it does stand out occasionally with dark images after the eye adjusts. I have a white wall behind my screen, so the light is more noticeable than it otherwise would be, although I never noticed anything similar with the Samsung.

The LS-5 differs in looks from the 8150. The glossy black case has been changed to one with a matte black finish.
Cool! The less reflective surfaces anywhere in the room, the better, even though it never mattered in my particular installation.
I've read that the mechanism used for shifting the lens was nice and tight and I found it to be just the opposite. I found quite a bit of slop in the gearing. Go in one direction too far up or down and you have to turn the allen wrench almost 3/4's of a turn in the other direction before the image starts to shift.
Yup, I agree, the mechanism is sloppy, but even with the slop I got everything lined up perfectly in less than a half hour. It's no big deal anyway, as once it is done it stays lined up until you move the PJ.
I leave BrilliantColor and Adaptive Contrast off and Dynamic Black on.
That's the way I ran mine also, though admittedly I would turn on BC and/or AC just for variety and to attempt to compensate for less than pristine transfers.
The image is bright but not overly so and even though the pj easily fails the hand puppet test in my setup, black looks black enough during actual film content.
Don't fret...even my RS-35 fails the hand puppet test miserably, just a shade less miserably than the LS-5...;)
I have about 70 hours on the projector and have only noticed the iris working a few times on rolling credits at the end of a movie. I've looked for it in quite a few places that people have mentioned trips up other pj's dynamic irises and since I've yet to see it working during actual film content on the LS-5, I've basically stopped looking for it.
Though I don't watch credits, my experience was the same. The only time I saw the iris in action out of 388 hours of viewing was during a switch from a 100% white field to a 0% black field test pattern (and similar other patterns). The DI was never an issue in any way during normal viewing.
The image seems a good bit sharper than my 7210 but I'm sure the higher resolution has a little something to do with this perception of additional clarity. The 7210 was noted for good colors and skin tones and I find the LS-5 to be just as good. The LS-5 may be technically more accurate in this regard but I can't really see it and I'm totally fine with that. I was more than satisfied with the 7210 for color accuracy and as long as the LS-5 was at least as good as it was, I knew I'd be happy and I am.
As expected. Bob Williams was the same lead engineer that developed both projectors...:)
I really like the LS-5 and find it a worthy upgrade to my 7210 but I do have some issues with this particular pj and think I have a faulty unit. I have some shading errors and think it may be due to a bad processor of some kind. The left side of the image is darker than the right. When changing resolutions, the menus or internal test patterns the leftt side of the image goes gray/green for a few seconds and lags behind the left side and remains slightly darker.

Also, I have a few diagonal streaks radiating from the upper right hand side of the image towards the center of the screen. At first I thought it was my screen but it's not. The streaks move with the image if I tilt the pj up or down or side to side.
You DEFINITELY have a problem. My unit's shading was as perfect as I could expect and showed none of the artifacts you are seeing. What input are you using? If I remember correctly, Kris Deering had a similar looking problem with HDMI input 2 on his first unit.

Jay5298, glad to hear that you are enjoying your pj. I have a subscription to HT Mag so I 've already read their review but haven't been to the Secrets site in quite a while so that review is new to me. Thanks for the links.


Did you notice the issues from the beginning or did they develop over time?

I honestly can't say if it was there at the beginning. I didn't notice it at first as I only played a few BluRay and HD DVD discs and watched some cable programming. A friend had borrowed my Spears and Munsil disc and didn't return it until I had around 20 hours on the pj. When I got the disc back and began to set my brightness and contrast levels is when I first noticed it.


Hard to tell from the photos if the light/dark is split precisely down the middle -- if so you might check that you don't have the PIP Split Screen mode active. I understand that this applies User Memory 2 settings (those related to the image processor) to the left half of the image. While this could cause light/dark sides, I don't see how it'd be the source of the radial lines that you are seeing.

It's pretty close to being right down the middle. I'll check my PIP settings just to be sure but I have never touched any PIP settings and unless the default setting is active, it should be off. Even if it was on, I also don't see how it could cause the shaded radial lines.


When installing, I did have the same experience as you regarding the lens shift -- horizontal and vertical are not completely independent. Good thing is that the lens seems to remain stable once set.

It was a bit of a pain in the a.. but once it was set it hasn't moved at all.


I've only put on a few hours, but I'm extremely pleased with what I see thus far. Big improvement over my Samsung H710 in terms of sharpness, contrast, and black level.

I pretty much feel the same way but it would defintely have been more enjoyable if my mine didn't have the issues it does. Nothing takes the shine off of a new toy quicker than having a problem arise and having to send it in for service.


The only downside I see so far is a slight light leakage that appears on very dark scenes (mainly dark test patterns) where there is a dim ring of light that shows outside the projection area. It's not noticeable in most normal content, but it does stand out occasionally with dark images after the eye adjusts. I have a white wall behind my screen, so the light is more noticeable than it otherwise would be, although I never noticed anything similar with the Samsung.

That's one thing that I haven't seen with mine and all I can say is that it's time to paint that wall. You'll appreciate the difference it makes. Even more so if you paint the whole room.




Cool! The less reflective surfaces anywhere in the room, the better, even though it never mattered in my particular installation.

Yeah, I was pretty happy to see the matte black finish myself.


Yup, I agree, the mechanism is sloppy, but even with the slop I got everything lined up perfectly in less than a half hour. It's no big deal anyway, as once it is done it stays lined up until you move the PJ.

Less than 30 minutes... That's because you go through so many pj's that you have mastered the art of installing them. ;)


That's the way I ran mine also, though admittedly I would turn on BC and/or AC just for variety and to attempt to compensate for less than pristine transfers.

I'm sure I'll play around with BC and AC in the future just to see how it affects the image but for now I just haven't felt the need to.


Don't fret...even my RS-35 fails the hand puppet test miserably, just a shade less miserably than the LS-5...;)

:D

Even though the black level could be better, I'm quite happy with it and will easily remain content for a few years.


Though I don't watch credits, my experience was the same. The only time I saw the iris in action out of 388 hours of viewing was during a switch from a 100% white field to a 0% black field test pattern (and similar other patterns). The DI was never an issue in any way during normal viewing.

I really don't forsee it ever being an issue for me either.


As expected. Bob Williams was the same lead engineer that developed both projectors...:)

I'll be curious to see what he's able to do with LED DLP tech about 3 years from now. ;)


You DEFINITELY have a problem. My unit's shading was as perfect as I could expect and showed none of the artifacts you are seeing. What input are you using? If I remember correctly, Kris Deering had a similar looking problem with HDMI input 2 on his first unit.

I agree it's definitely a problem. Funny, the one thing I never worried about when getting a dlp pj was shading uniformity. It's on all inputs, the pj's internal test patterns and the Runco logo screen that comes up when you first turn on the pj.

Greetings,
Love this forum and all the great info people post.

Was curious if anyone is using the LS-5 with a anamorphic lens and scope setup, and if so, what their thoughts and setups were.

I'm looking at possibly getting the LS-5 coupled with a Prismasonic lens and a Da-lite HP screen for my semi light controlled, but non bat cave living room.
Thinking of using around a 100" or 104" wide scope screen.
Throw ratio about 2.4
Seating distance about 3x screen height at 11' or so.
Would mount projector on shelf behind seating at about 60" height.

I'm also looking at the Epson 9500 / 8500 and Vivitek 5080

Torn like a sweater......

Thanks Big Nick

I have The Runco LS-5 with Panamorph UH-480 lens. My screen is 54" high by 129.5 " wide 2.40:1. I sit about 14.5 feet back 1st row and it's almost to big for me, but I usually sit in the middle or back when I go to movies. I have become more accustomed to the large screen, but it was hard to get use to at first. My room is totally light controlled and I have a Stewart Firehawk G3 screen. I keep the projector on standard lamp power, but could actually use the economy but I don't because the review from hometheaterhifi said the economy lamp mode distorts the colors a bit, hard to really notice though. I love the picture this projector puts out, and would recommend it to anyone. For the price I don't think you can find a better DLP projector.

I had my first issue with my Planar 8150 this weekend. My wife and I were watching "Nine" and 45 minutes into the film, the image turned to black. I looked up to see what I think was alternate red and green flashing...but it seemed to turn into just red flashing. The projector fan stayed in cool down mode. After about five minutes, I tried turning off the projector completely, but it wouldn't turn off either by remote or manual. I unplugged the unit and waited another 5 mins or so. I turned the projector back on and it played fine for 90 mins until we were done using it. I watched another 2 hours on Sunday and no issues.

I reviewed the manual and depending on the flashing all red or alternative red/green...it would either be an overheating situation (projector is suspended and neither air way is impeded) or a bulb burning out situation (the door could be ajar...but I've not touched it since owning the projector). I ran a search and couldn't find any other members reporting a similar issue. What say you AVS community? Since I bought this from AVS-I know I'm covered. ;)

Thanks for any help!

Ron

PS: The one and only original bulb has less than 950 hours total (econ. mode).

You are always covered with a Runco or Planar. They have an advanced replacement policy.

Unplugging for 5 mins. the IF 7200, 7205, 7210 resolved every problem I ever had. Haven't had to do it yet with my Planars. NOTE: This does not work for dead bulbs

Thanks to both for your responses. I plan on running the projector over the next couple of nights to see if it happens again. I won't be able to watch any movies next week, so if I have to send in the unit...I'd rather have the downtime when I would miss it less.

Thanks again and take care

Ron

Unplugging for 5 mins. the IF 7200, 7205, 7210 resolved every problem I ever had. Haven't had to do it yet with my Planars. NOTE: This does not work for dead bulbs
Here I was planning to do it next time my bulb died...thanks for nothing

You are always covered with a Runco or Planar. They have an advanced replacement policy.

How long does this process normally take?

I had my first issue with my Planar 8150 this weekend. My wife and I were watching "Nine" and 45 minutes into the film, the image turned to black. I looked up to see what I think was alternate red and green flashing...but it seemed to turn into just red flashing. The projector fan stayed in cool down mode. After about five minutes, I tried turning off the projector completely, but it wouldn't turn off either by remote or manual. I unplugged the unit and waited another 5 mins or so. I turned the projector back on and it played fine for 90 mins until we were done using it. I watched another 2 hours on Sunday and no issues.

I reviewed the manual and depending on the flashing all red or alternative red/green...it would either be an overheating situation (projector is suspended and neither air way is impeded) or a bulb burning out situation (the door could be ajar...but I've not touched it since owning the projector). I ran a search and couldn't find any other members reporting a similar issue. What say you AVS community? Since I bought this from AVS-I know I'm covered. ;)

Thanks for any help!

Ron

PS: The one and only original bulb has less than 950 hours total (econ. mode).

I don't have an 8150, but I actually had the exact same issue with my W6000, strangely. Image instantly black, flashing red light, no remote response for power off. I've only seen it once- so after a cool down and unplug/shutdown, it's yet to reappear.

I wonder if it's a heat issue.

Your dealer will arrange things. Ask it. What it means if the mother fails, you get a replacement projector so you are not in the dark while the machine is being repaired. There are variations depending on when the failure arose. DOA. Within warranty period, early middle toward end. Call your dealer have it arrange things foir you.

I wonder if it's a heat issue.

That was my thought too. I've run the projector that last two nights for a couple hours both nights without issue. My post was more in attempt to determine if this was a recognized issue with some units. Since I couldn't find anyone else mentioning (a similar problem), in other threads. I assume my issue is either an abnormal occurance (which will need to be repaired) relative to all Planars or it's a gremlin, which may not show up again.

Your dealer will arrange things. Ask it. Call your dealer have it arrange things foir you.

My dealer is AVS. I spoke with Jason about my LS-5 last Wednesday afternoon and sent some screenshots he requested later that night. I called back on Friday to verify that he got them and he said they had never seen an issue like my pj had and were waiting to hear back from their Runco rep.

Well, a week has gone by and I haven't heard anything. I'm pretty surprised that Runco takes this long getting back to one of their largest dealers regarding a warranty repair. Looks like I'll have to call Jason back on Monday to find out what's going on.

What it means if the mother fails, you get a replacement projector so you are not in the dark while the machine is being repaired. There are variations depending on when the failure arose. DOA. Within warranty period, early middle toward end.

I've had the pj for 3 months and only have 77 hours on it.

My dealer is AVS. I spoke with Jason about my LS-5 last Wednesday afternoon and sent some screenshots he requested later that night. I called back on Friday to verify that he got them and he said they had never seen an issue like my pj had and were waiting to hear back from their Runco rep.

Well, a week has gone by and I haven't heard anything. I'm pretty surprised that Runco takes this long getting back to one of their largest dealers regarding a warranty repair. Looks like I'll have to call Jason back on Monday to find out what's going on.



I've had the pj for 3 months and only have 77 hours on it.

Any update on your situation? I hope it got straightened out for you

:D I was just getting ready to post an update.

I spoke with Jason last Wednesday and he said Runco had determined that there was a light type problem. Sounded strange and I don't think Jason understood exactly what they meant by that either. Didn't really matter though, he said Runco was going to send me a brand new pj.

When I inquired further, he said they will usually send you a brand new one during the first year. I thought that was pretty cool as I didn't have to wait for my old one to come back from a repair facility and then do another swap. Much less of a hassle doing it this way. Once and done. ;)

On Sunday I got an email from him saying that the pj has shipped and should be here Friday. Unfortunately it was shipped to my old office which has recently closed. I just sent him an email to have it redirected to my home address. Hopefully it still gets here by Friday where the long weekend will give me plenty of time to swap it out and see how the new one does.

Glad things are working out. AVS and Jason are good folks and take care of their customers.

Alright, got something I've been wondering about, is focus "drift" normal, and if so, how much?

Specific to the Planar? When one changes iris settings on various machines, sometimes it will change the focus very slightly. never a bad idea to check the focus and reset it from time to time as needed.

Anyone know how to access the Main Menu and Advaned menu features. Mine are inaccessible thought I've gone through the manual I cannot figure why. Can't save user presets or anything right now.

It sounds like you have one of the ISF Memory settings activated. This grays out many settings on Main and Advanced pages.

Go to Menu > Memory > Recall Memory and select User-1 or User-2 and that should free up your Menu and Advanced Menu options.

Rick

It sounds like you have one of the ISF Memory settings activated. This grays out many settings on Main and Advanced pages.

Go to Menu > Memory > Recall Memory and select User-1 or User-2 and that should free up your Menu and Advanced Menu options.

Rick

Thanks... I ended up figuring out that it was my Onkyo 885 passing colorspace through HDMI. Once I shut that off everything was fine. I have the projector and blue-ray player set to auto. Not sure if this is the ideal color space, but things are much better than they were.

From WSR review of Runco LS- semi-clone of PD8150:
To get visibly higher image quality than offered by the LS-5, be prepared to spend four to five times its retail price [$6995]. Spot on colorimetry, ruler flat gray scale, high quality optics, and every 'tweak' necessary for an ultimate calibration, and all for less than we paid for a decent flat panel last year, yiieds a new high watermark for both performance and vaue...it does seem like a non-sequitur, doesn't it!"

$7000x4=$28,000; $7000x5=$35,000. Any suggestions in that price range?

From WSR review of Runco LS- semi-clone of PD8150:
To get visibly higher image quality than offered by the LS-5, be prepared to spend four to five times its retail price [$6995]. Spot on colorimetry, ruler flat gray scale, high quality optics, and every 'tweak' necessary for an ultimate calibration, and all for less than we paid for a decent flat panel last year, yiieds a new high watermark for both performance and vaue...it does seem like a non-sequitur, doesn't it!"

$7000x4=$28,000; $7000x5=$35,000. Any suggestions in that price range?

What are the differences between LS-5 and PD8150. I wonder if they'd offer an upgrade kit. Thought I am extremely happy with mine right now.

Thought it was decided there weren't any meaningful differences.

Thought it was decided there weren't any meaningful differences.

That's what I heard , also.

There was some discussion at some point about whether or not they might have done some tweaks to the firmware, the video processor, but I don't recall anything definitive.

The menu names were changed. The biggest change is the video processor. The Planar used Pixelworks; the Runco uses its own in house unit. However, in various reviews, ther performed identically.

I thought the Planar had a Genum VXP, or did they just use that for deinterlacing?

You're right. My mistake. Sooy. (61 yrs. old; mind going)

There's enough machines floating around it's hard to keep track of them all ;)

I've been having a issue with my Pioneer BD-51FD, Onkyo 885 and Planar 8150. The issue started happening after a few firmware updates to the pioneer and onkyo. I've been through hell and back trying to solve the issue and seem to have narrowed it down to color space and color space passthrough.

If I set the Onkyo 885 to passthrough and the Pio and Planar to auto, I can't play DVD's. If I set passthrough to off I get red spots on any blu-ray movie. My answer was to set it to passthrough on the Onkyo, Auto on the Planar and then to a specific colorspace on the pioneer.

My question is, since I have to set it to something, which color space on the pioneer is best?
Color Space Options:

RGB 0-255
RGB 16-235
YPbCr 4:4:4
YPbCr 4:2:2


I currently have it set to 4:2:2 and everything seems fine, but I honestly do not have a clue which one is the best to use. I've read different forums and have seen different answers. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Peter

I've been having a issue with my Pioneer BD-51FD, Onkyo 885 and Planar 8150. The issue started happening after a few firmware updates to the pioneer and onkyo. I've been through hell and back trying to solve the issue and seem to have narrowed it down to color space and color space passthrough.

If I set the Onkyo 885 to passthrough and the Pio and Planar to auto, I can't play DVD's. If I set passthrough to off I get red spots on any blu-ray movie. My answer was to set it to passthrough on the Onkyo, Auto on the Planar and then to a specific colorspace on the pioneer.

My question is, since I have to set it to something, which color space on the pioneer is best?
Color Space Options:

RGB 0-255
RGB 16-235
YPbCr 4:4:4
YPbCr 4:2:2


I currently have it set to 4:2:2 and everything seems fine, but I honestly do not have a clue which one is the best to use. I've read different forums and have seen different answers. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Peter

Start here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16820716#post16820716

and read down. It seems that YCbCr 4:4:4 is the one to use.

Start here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16820716#post16820716

and read down. It seems that YCbCr 4:4:4 is the one to use.

Thanks! Interesting thread, especially about the part where Planar suggested 4:4:4. Will try 4:4:4 with the Pioneer and see if I can tell a difference with that and 4:2:2, which I doubt. I have the oppo on another set and might a/b.

From WSR review of Runco LS- semi-clone of PD8150:
To get visibly higher image quality than offered by the LS-5, be prepared to spend four to five times its retail price [$6995]. Spot on colorimetry, ruler flat gray scale, high quality optics, and every 'tweak' necessary for an ultimate calibration, and all for less than we paid for a decent flat panel last year, yiieds a new high watermark for both performance and vaue...it does seem like a non-sequitur, doesn't it!"

$7000x4=$28,000; $7000x5=$35,000. Any suggestions in that price range?

I have had my PD8150 for a year now....freaking amazing pj for the money. One of the best purchases I have ever made.

11 happy months here.

Had my 8150 for over 500 hours now, and still looks stunning! Just hosted my first "Macho Movie Night" playing "Inglourious Basterds" and everyone was blown away. What a great privilege to be able to build and show off your own movie theater!

Is there also a Planar version of the LS-100d. This 1080P LED Ultra Short Throw, looks like something that came out the Planar works, except for the 1080P perhaps?

http://cdn.asia.cnet.com/i/r/2012/crave/hav/62213278/runco_sc.jpg

Is there also a Planar version of the LS-100d. This 1080P LED Ultra Short Throw, looks like something that came out the Planar works, except for the 1080P perhaps?

http://cdn.asia.cnet.com/i/r/2012/crave/hav/62213278/runco_sc.jpg

I think they've stopped production of home theater projectors under the Planar name. They have some business models out there but the last ones under the Planar name were the PD8150/30.

Runco is now their only HT brand as mentioned.

I have not seen this one in person, but for an apartment it would be perfect.

Runco is now their only HT brand as mentioned.

I have not seen this one in person, but for an apartment it would be perfect.

My 8150 is still going strong.

What have folks been doing so far as bulb replacements ?

Is the Runco LS-3/5 bulb compatible ?

There is a company on eBay that sells a bulb minus housing - has anyone gone this route ? Any tips for recycling the housing ?

My 8150 is still going strong.

What have folks been doing so far as bulb replacements ?

Is the Runco LS-3/5 bulb compatible ?

There is a company on eBay that sells a bulb minus housing - has anyone gone this route ? Any tips for recycling the housing ?

There are detailed instructions, including pictures and part numbers extra in this thread...starting with post #93

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1086099&page=4

I've replaced mine last summer and will do it again this summer with a new aftermarket bulb using the same housing. I used those instructions linked above and added some observations of my own in that thread.

Ron

My 8150 is still going strong.

What have folks been doing so far as bulb replacements ?

Is the Runco LS-3/5 bulb compatible ?

There is a company on eBay that sells a bulb minus housing - has anyone gone this route ? Any tips for recycling the housing ?

I got this:
http://www.planaronline.com/catalog/?q=8150&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0

It was actually cheaper/faster than AVS could get it when I checked. And IMO it's just not worth the trouble/uncertainty to go with something else to save maybe $100-200 over the course of a year or two. Not when it costs almost $100 just to fill up my truck once :eek:

I got this:
http://www.planaronline.com/catalog/?q=8150&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0

It was actually cheaper/faster than AVS could get it when I checked. And IMO it's just not worth the trouble/uncertainty to go with something else to save maybe $100-200 over the course of a year or two. Not when it costs almost $100 just to fill up my truck once :eek:

Actually it's over $300 difference...but still your comparison to the high cost of filling up our vehicles was a good one to put things in perspective.

There are detailed instructions, including pictures and part numbers extra in this thread...starting with post #93

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1086099&page=4

I've replaced mine last summer and will do it again this summer with a new aftermarket bulb using the same housing. I used those instructions linked above and added some observations of my own in that thread.

Ron

Thank you very much for this.

If you're looking for a deal on bare bulbs check here:

http://www.dlplampsource.com/planar-997-5268-00-projector-replacement-lamp.html

I bought two about a month ago for my PD8150. They are the real deal, ie Osram genuine bulbs. They are great to deal with. They had my bulbs out the following day in the AM and UPS Second Day Air is included in the price. Follow that guide posted and you're set. It's quick and easy. Just make sure you wear gloves when changing the bulbs out.

If you're looking for a deal on bare bulbs check here:

http://www.dlplampsource.com/planar-997-5268-00-projector-replacement-lamp.html

I bought two about a month ago for my PD8150. They are the real deal, ie Osram genuine bulbs. They are great to deal with. They had my bulbs out the following day in the AM and UPS Second Day Air is included in the price. Follow that guide posted and you're set. It's quick and easy. Just make sure you wear gloves when changing the bulbs out.

Thanks. As i am in the UK i need to factor in customs charges. But if anyone can recommend a seller in the EU, that would be useful too.

I got this:
http://www.planaronline.com/catalog/?q=8150&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0

It was actually cheaper/faster than AVS could get it when I checked. And IMO it's just not worth the trouble/uncertainty to go with something else to save maybe $100-200 over the course of a year or two. Not when it costs almost $100 just to fill up my truck once :eek:

In the UK, the full assembly lamp is the equivalent of over $1,000 including taxes unfortunately. To fill my tank with diesel is the equivalent of $160 incl tax which hurts .

I might just get the full assembly once , then recycle the housing on the used lamp with a new bulb as a back up. The photos posted are great but I probably won't fully understand until confronted with taking it apart.

I found a EU seller btw.

BTW, are there any 'bricks-and-mortar' stores in US cities that sell these bulbs ? If so , where please ?

Thanks. As i am in the UK i need to factor in customs charges. But if anyone can recommend a seller in the EU, that would be useful too.

The seller that was recommended says custom fees are included in their flat shipping rate of $50 US

http://www.dlplampsource.com/faqs#

Thanks. As i am in the UK i need to factor in customs charges. But if anyone can recommend a seller in the EU, that would be useful too.

Hi,

Check out this link, they have very good prices:

http://www.myprojectorlamps.eu

Best regards.

BTW, are there any 'bricks-and-mortar' stores in US cities that sell these bulbs ? If so , where please ?

I'd think a Runco seller would be able to get one. I'd be shocked if anyone had any in stock, or if any big box stores would even know what you're talking about.

I'd think a Runco seller would be able to get one. I'd be shocked if anyone had any in stock, or if any big box stores would even know what you're talking about.

I meant independent stores like B and H Photo in Manahattan for eg.

Thanks for the other suggestions above guys. About the custom charges being included in their shipping fee, I am not sure if the UK Customs would honour that- they charge a tax on the shipping charge combined with the item's value, as well as the value of the item again.

I have had my 8150 for almost 2 years probably and it has seen pretty light use TBH. Actually I checked the number of hrs on the lamp and even I was surprised to see its only 136 ! But I will definitely rebulb when the time comes and with all the above info, I will be well prepared as far as sourcing and doing the rebulb.

Should or shouldn't i get a bulb now ... ? I may never need another but I ought to use my PJ more I think. I use it with a vertical compression anamorphic lens, the oil filled obsolete panamorph p752 , its great though.

The osram bulbs in these projectors last a long time and don't lose brightness like the JVCs. I had a bulb at 1600+ hours and it was still bright enough for my 106" screen. I only replaced it because I finda good deal on bare bulbs.

With that said, your bulb should last a long time still. Its purely your decision on buying a new one but you don't need one for a while.

The osram bulbs in these projectors last a long time and don't lose brightness like the JVCs. I had a bulb at 1600+ hours and it was still bright enough for my 106" screen. I only replaced it because I finda good deal on bare bulbs.

With that said, your bulb should last a long time still. Its purely your decision on buying a new one but you don't need one for a while.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this :)

I meant independent stores like B and H Photo in Manahattan for eg.

Thanks for the other suggestions above guys. About the custom charges being included in their shipping fee, I am not sure if the UK Customs would honour that- they charge a tax on the shipping charge combined with the item's value, as well as the value of the item again.

I have had my 8150 for almost 2 years probably and it has seen pretty light use TBH. Actually I checked the number of hrs on the lamp and even I was surprised to see its only 136 ! But I will definitely rebulb when the time comes and with all the above info, I will be well prepared as far as sourcing and doing the rebulb.

Should or shouldn't i get a bulb now ... ? I may never need another but I ought to use my PJ more I think. I use it with a vertical compression anamorphic lens, the oil filled obsolete panamorph p752 , its great though.



With only 136 hours on your bulb, it's still in it's infancy stage, not even a toddler yet. Most calibraters tell us not to calibrate a projector until you have at least 100 hours on the bulb. I would say you have more than a couple of years at your current rate of usage. You'll probably sell the projector before you need to replace the bulb.